Gotta Stay Positive

stay positive?WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!

HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY INELLIGENCE BY BLOWIN THAT 2010 SMOKE.WE HAD A DECENT TEAM WITH BIG ZACH!NOW WHEN OUR SHOTS AINT FALLIN,THERE IS NOBODY TO GO TO.IF WE DONT SIGN THE PLAYERS WE HAVE TARGETED.WE MIGHT AS WELL HAVE KEPT RANDOLPH.HOW MANY GUYS PUT UP THE NUMBERS HE DOES?NASH IS ON HIS WAY DOWN .IN 2 YEARS HE WILL BE WASHED UP.FOR THIS TEAM TO THROW AWAY THIS SEASON IS A DOWN RIGHT CRIME.ARE YOU SAYING NEXT YEAR ISNT IMPORTANT EITHER?EVERY YEAR IS IMPORTANT TO THE FAN.SUPPOSE BOSH BLOWS OUT A KNEE.OR LEBRON POPS A HAMSTRING ?WHATYA DO THEN?THIN ABOUT 2013?THIS IS A DISGRACE!!!!

whoa bro calm down

I’m sorry, but as a fan I will take a blown season if in return I get a lottery pick and get under the cap. Lets see we will get PE jr. back from the D-League when his offensive game back. Donnie was upfront about what he was gonna do he wants to clean house. I have hope that by 2010 we will be a playoff team in the area (4, 5, 6). Tommy one question Thomas was always good at drafting, will he be helping us?

Thank you for this post. I’m sick of reading Berman’s crap about how the honeymoon is over because the Knicks stink this year. D’Antoni’s first job the next two years was to develop some role players (Chandler, Gallinari, Nate, Lee, Duhon, etc) who can help in 2010. His second job was to essentially make someone trade for Zach, Crawford and Curry. Any winning that goes on between now and then is a bonus. SO far he is doing an excellent job.

1 BLOWN SEASON? WE HAVE HAD ABOUT 5 IN A ROW.ALSO A LOTTERY PICK AND SOME CAP SPACE DOES NOT GUARINTEE VICTORYS OR A CHAMPIONSHIP.HOW DID TRADING CAMBY FOR ANTONIO MCDYESS TURN OUT?ALLS IM SAYING IS YOU CANT KEEP ON BLOWING UP SEASONS FOR THE FUTURE,CUZ THE FUTURE MAY NEVER HAPPEN.WE HAD A LOTTERY PICK THIS YEAR,WHERE IS HE?

YOU CANT POSSIBLY BELIEVE THAT WILSON CHANDLER IS GONNA BE ANYTHING MORE THAN AVERAGE,LEE IS A 6TH MAN AT BEST AND NATE PLAYS MORE OUT OF CONTROL THAN IN.WAKE UP AND STOP EATING THE FALSE PABLEM THAT THE KNICKS SHILLS WANT YOU TO EAT!~

please stop yelling I;m trying to sleep…

Dee ,

I am going to date myself here , I have been a Knick fan since the days of Walt Bellamy in the middle . I watched as Red Holzman came to town and built the only NBA team to ever send all five starters to the HOF while winning a couple of Championships to boot . With the likes of Clyde , The Pearl, The Dollar Bill , The Captain and of course Dave Debusschere !

That team was truly one of the all time great TEAMS . They played as one and were truly greater than the sum of their individual parts !

We eventually hit the skids as those great stars aged and retired only to awaken to the Patrick Ewing era and we were once again relevant , strong and proud . And were it not for some bad luck at inopportune times we would have one or two championships to brag about from that era also .

But I cannot remember a lower darker outlook ever as a fan than the last few years with Isiah calling the shots and thank god he is gone ! We may not be winning now but the task that was handed to Walsh and D’antoni was/is monumental and i do not envy them in the least .

But at least i rest at night knowing that we have real leadership that will once again in time return the Garden to a place of NBA prominence !

For those that would rather mortgage a long term solution and sustained contention for a couple of weak runs into quick playoff elimination for one or two years by staying with obviously flawed players such as Marbury , curry , Randolph and Crawfish . I can only say that you should really get over this instant gratification BS and look at the big picture and what it really is to build a contender for the long run a real force to be reckoned with .

I am dying of lung cancer and I still would rather see my team go down the right road and at least have a chance to have a bright future . Than mortgaging it for an extra 5 or 10 wins this year and next in a futile attempt to claim relevancy again . Even if i don’t personally get to see the plan come to fruition !

Give Walsh and D’antoni a chance they are taking the right steps to make the Knicks and the Garden a force in the NBA again . After 5 years of Thomas incompetence is another 2 years really that long ? And in the mean time you might actually like watching the young pieces develop and come together so that when a couple of prime time players are added after the 2010 season is over we can be once again the proud dominant franchise that we as fans and the Garden deserve !!!

All my best to all long suffering Knick fans ,

[...] “Lottery Dream or Nightmare?” post, but judging from a similar-type post over at the Knicks Blog and the comments left for Tommy Dee, this debate will continue to [...]

Knick slave- I pick you out because you seem to be the most vehement in this comment section and your thoughts differ from pretty much everyone else’s. While I am not on the same level as you, I hear you on a lot of your beefs.

I have no problem with trading players to get under the cap. As much as i thought we got fleeced for Randolph, I can understand the future implications of the move. However, there are other issues that I have with Walsh.

I have written countless times that there are too many wasted roster spots on this team. Jerome James, Anthony Roberson, Stephon Marbury, Malik Rose, to name 4. I can understand why Walsh has not cut Rose. He has an expiring deal and will have a ton of value at the deadline. Marbury… forget I brought him up. James and Roberson are mysteries to me. James i suppose is only hear because he has 6 mill coming to him next. Roberson is the odd man out.

This team has been pummeled in plenty of games because they lack depth. And it eems that all Walsh cares about is the future. How about the immediate future? Walsh has done a great job in turning this franchise around, but it appears that he has come to a complete halt in doing so. The problem is that too many people are jaded with thoughts of a better future in 2010 that they can care less about this season.

However, people like Knick Slave are not jaded by those thoughts. They want to win every game that the Knicks play. I put myself into that boat.

Chris — everyone wants to win games. That what sport is all about. But there has to be a long term plan to win a championship. If that means making do with the players on the Roster today then so be it.

I kind of differ on the Randolph statement. NO one wanted this guy. I think we got good value if Mobley was available. Maybe walsh should have pressed fo r a first rounder when they found the Cuttino heart problem but I’m OK with TT on this team for the next 18 months. Salary cap implications are a big part of all transactions and that cant be ignored when evaluating trades.

I agree with your comments on the useless four. Roberson should either be playing meaningful minutes to see what we’ve got or cut.

In this transitional period I think patience is the key asset for knick fans and management. Could Walsh screw up 2010? OF course. But I think the 2010 plan is the best path to hanging a banner in MSG anytime soon. Being one and done in the playoffs for the next three years really doesnt wash.

I’m with you Tommy. We are heading in the right direction. In fact, Donnie making the play for 2010, is the single smartest plan any NY GM has ever enacted for as long as I can remember. The NBA is a star driven league, and Zach Randolph is no star.

In the NBA, you cannot hope for the worst to first turnarounds that we see in the NFL. The two sports are not comparable. In this league you need to go through the fire in order to come out the other side. I would like us to see more wins, but I think people like “the slave” just simple do not know enough about NBA basketball and the way it works. In the salary cap generation, there are steps backwards you need to make in order to go forward. You cannot simply sign Sabathia, Texiera and Burnett- especially in the middle of the season. We need to express some more patience.

Kncik slave all caps. —

No one is throwing away the season.

Zach Randolpoh will never be a significant part of a championship team. Neither will Crawford or Marbury. I feel very confident in that statement. Having those three around hogging the ball and getting numbers is the precise way to mediocrity in basketball.

There is NO WAY this team as constructed on game one would have competed for a meaningful playoff run. Having a seasoned coach like D’Antoni in place — who plays a fun system should give us fun games to watch this year — Not the Minny game.

This year washing away the stench of IT, bringing in players who we can actually root for and playing some fun competitive games should be goals that every long time Knick fan would happy to see accomplished.

If I can watch Ken “the Animal” Bannister and Eddy Lee Wilkens I can be patient enough to wait for this thing to play out in the next few months.

We do have a long term plan, but I feel as though there should be some kind of short term plan as well. The current players do not care about the long term plan. The coach cares more about the ST plan than the LT plan.

I am on board with the LT plan. But does that excuse us from wishing for the best possible situation right now? Come January 5th, I will be shocked if Walsh does not add a player to a 10 day contract. This team has to grind through the next few games before reinforcements come.

The trading deadline also figures to be an important date for us.

how can you be good with the zach trade?we have 2 years to get under the cap!we could have ,AT LEAST,waited until this years trading deadline(personally i would have waited till next years)when people are desperate to add “THAT ONE PIECE” and with the numbers that zach was ptting up coulda got more for him than TIM THOMAS UGH!!!!.LIKE HIM OR NOT ZACH WAS THE CLOSEST THING TO AN ALL-STAR we had.what diff would it have made if we had traded him next year,after he continued to show his stuff.(AND IF YOU THINK DONNIE WALSH DIDNT KNOW ABOUT CUTTINOS HEART PROBLEM,I HAVE SOME SWAMP LAND IN FLORIDA ID LIKE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT)ALSO THEY COULDA PLAYED MARBURY TO SHOW SOME OF HIS STUFF TO MAKE HIM A TRADABLE COMMODITY AGAIN(IF THEY WERENT INTRESTED IN WINNING THIS YEAR)IN REALITY,ITS THE SAME “BUNKER MENTALITY”AS WE HD UNDER ZEKE.THE KNICKS NEVER EXPLAINED ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE REALLY TRYING TO DO WITH STEPH(JUST A LOT OF DOUBLE TALK)I THINK WE WERE ALL FOOLED ABOUT ,FIRST THE GOOD START TO THE SEASON AND TWO,HOW GOOD WE PLAYED ON THE WEST COAST TRIP.IF THE KNICKS JUST ADMITTED THAT THEY MADE A MISTAKE OR A MISJUDGMENT ON THEIR ACTIONS ,I WOUL FORGIVE THEM ,BUT RIGHT NOW THEY SEEM TO BE THE SAME “LIARS”THEY WERE LAST YEAR!

PATIENCE ?HE SHOULDA SHOWN SOME PATIENCE IN TRADING ZACH!WE COULDA GOT MORE THAN TIM THOMAS FOR A DOUBLE DOUBLE MACHINE.AND DONT TELL ME I KNOW NOTHING BOUT THE NBA!IVE BEEN WATCHING KNICKS GAMES SINCE HOWARD “BUTCH”KOMIVES AND DICK VAN ARSDALE WERE ON THE TEAM!ALLS IM SAYING IS THAT WALSH WAS SO GIDDY THINKING HE WAS GONNA FLEECE SOMEONE WITH Z-BO THAT HE DIDNT KNOW HE WAS THE ONE BEING FLEECED.YOU DONT REALIZE THAT EVERYONE YOU HAVE ON YOUR ROSTER IS A POTENTIAL TRADING CHIP COMMODITY….THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO DISPLAY THEM AT THEIR BEST….WHAT THEY DID IN THE STEPHON SITUATION WAS TO TAKE A GOOD PLAYER(WITH BAGGAGE)AND MAKE HIM LOOK SOOO BAD THAT HE IS NOW UN TRADABLE! YOUR TELLING ME THATS GOOD BUSINESS?THEN THEY TRADE ZACH FOR LESS THAN THEY COULDA GOTTEN,SIGN A SHLUB(ROBERSON)FROM THE SUMMER LEAGUE,WHO IS USELESS.YOUR TELLING ME BIG SNACKS CANT PLAT 5 MINUTES A GAME JUST TO GIVE THE OTHER GUYS A SHORT BLOW?SOMETIMES YA GOTTA JUST USE WHAT YOU HAVE

I think talking signing players at this point is unnecessary. We may have to do it for #’s purposes at some time, but if there is a player out there to help the Knicks, why would he not be on another team? It just seems like idle talk to me. There is not one body that is not already in the league that will help our team win one more game this season. NOT ONE. Think about it.

And I think its silly to assume that the coaches do not care about the long term plan. Its a very good long term plan. That doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t and won’t bust their ass to win every single game. After this season we will have two lottery picks to infuse this team with along with any other moves we might make. I think we will be greatly improved next season. We just have to be patient this year.

And “slave”: just because you can name a couple of basketball players, doesn’t help to convince me that you know anything about the NBA. Your caps locked, blowhard posts have told me all that I need to know. Not to mention the fact that I hate your screen name.

I guess I should just ask D’Antoni if he cares more about the ST than the LT. Why make assumptions?

As for there not being one player out there that can help us win another game, I am not sure if that is totally accurate.

Would a guy like Smush Parker be of more use to this team than Anthony Roberson? What about Ewing Jr? Dee Brown was available…. would he not help us at all?

A couple of years ago, Parker was starting for the Lakers and averaged double digit points. He can’t be a backup point guard on this team?

But there is a short term plan as well.
The most significant part of the short term plan is D’Antoni. Keep the players focused on the hear and now and put a competitive, fun to watch product on the floor.
Walsh has his responsibilities in the short term as well.

1. Resolve the Marbury situation via buyout
2. Resolve the Mobley situation via DFE
3. Add players on 10 day contracts for evaluation and to lengthen the bench.
4. Use one of the future open roster spots for Ewing Jr.
5. Continue to evaluate player trades up til the trade deadline.
6. Get the injured players back in the rotation ASAP.

Whether anyone agrees with the ST Plan is debatable

My beef is I’d love to see some resolution on Roberson’s role and would love to see the bench lengthened with the existing players.

I usually ignore people who type in all caps but Ill make this exception.

Marbury would never be traded for anyone based on what he can contribute. He is a cancer to a locker room and a self centered person. Anyone who wants him only wants the expiring money and not what he can do on the floor.

That said — Walsh can probably do a Marbury for O’Neil trade with Toronto today. Which isnt so bad.

Dont you see that giving Zbo the minutes he got in the early season is exactly what you are railing that They didnt do? Zbo was drawing flies as interest before the season. Walsh was patient, Zbo put up his inflated stats and someone bit. Mission accomplished. There was no other offers and Walsh got two decent rotation players — Until Mobley had the heart situation.

I agree with you that the existing players (Snacks, Malik and Roberson) should be utiulized more than they have been. But maybe — as we are seeing with Jeffries — watching them play is more painful than watching them sit.

Chris,

I love your passion, man. But I think it’s worth considering that what we have now is the best possible situation.

I went to the game yesterday, and even before I stepped on the F train to make my way to the Garden, I knew that outside of a miracle, there was no way the Knicks were gonna beat the Nugs.

But, for what it was worth, they didn’t get blown out, and in the end, I had fun even though they lost. These two things alone make for a vast improvement from last year, and years previous, for that matter.

Now, considering what a complete and utter mess we’ve been since trading Ewing Sr., the fact that:

1 – We’ve got one of the best basketball minds running the show right now

2 – We’ve got one of the best coaches in recent history running the court, with job security for at least the next 2 years an absolute certainty

and

3 – We’re finally free of the Layden/Thomas cap $tranglehold.

Man, we should be throwing a parade down B’way right now just for these three reasons alone.

I mean, playoff hopes now? I wouldn’t exactly discourage it. But dude, we’d not only get killed in the first round, we’d most certainly be swept by anyone we would face.

That’s not fun, at all. Nor does it restore any pride to this shattered franchise.

Anyway, TKB rules. Keep on keepin’ on, fellas.

you were doing so good in the first few lines.

I think most would agree that no one wanted to watch Zack or Marbury in a Knicks uniform any more. Tow ait til next year would have truly made my stomach turn.

MArbury’s value is his expiring contract.. Not his ability on the floor. He is making 21 mill this year. What team would want that based on his on the court (or off the court for that matter) performance??

Lastly, why would Knciks Management come out and tell everyone what they were going to do short term? Doesnt this also tell the other GMs around the league??

I dont understand the “liars” comment so I wont address it.

da — totally agree.. the ability to sit in the garden and not have to watch Zach or Marbury is well worth the price of admission.

Competitive games is a bonus

One topic that kept getting brought up yesterday as i was watching the game was changing the culture of this team. Like it or not losing is contagious. You lose, and lose consistently, and you start to expect it to happen every time there is a critical situation in a game. You dont expect to win games because you dont know what it takes to win them. In the last five minutes of yesterdays game, the knicks fully expected something bad to happen and it was a self fulfilling prophecy because they made those bad things happen.
Now take that thought and compare it to the wait until 2010 idea. Basically what you are saying is if we dont win for two years thats ok? Sorry but thats not going to cut it. Say only one superstar comes here. He now has a team full of role players around him who are not used to winning and dont know what they are supposed to do to make the team successful. That does not sound like a formula for instant success.
This team needs to try to win now because it needs to learn what it takes to win. Boxing out, playing tough defense, never giving up , making smart decisions are all things that these players need to learn and be held accountable for. From what i can see, Coach D’Antoni’s system is the type that other teams struggle against because its not the NBA standard. Its kind of like playing in denver, you dont know how hard it is til you try it. Get him a ten man rotation of energy guys who can run and shoot and defend and most importantly give rest to the others already here and we begin to win. And we wont win every game. We wont beat the Celtics or go to the conference finals, but we sure as heck wont lose to the timberwolves on our court.
I hope we do get a star in 2010, or two even, but if this team does not learn the little things it takes to win between now and then, dont expect 2010 to suddenly be that magical year where we hang a banner in the rafters.

I totally agree with you about the culture thing. That is why Marbury, Randolph and Crawford are no longer on this team. They have all been associated with losing their entire careers. The knicks are learning to win with a new system and coach. They just do not have enough talent this year. The winning will come with time in the system and the addition of players this offseason.

And Alvino, I think there are players not in the league that can get minutes on this team, because we are so thin, but I don’t think there is anyone who will affect the outcomes of games. Even as I love the idea of bringing in PE jr, he is not going to determine whether we beat the SA Spurs in the closing minutes of a game. And as far as smush parker, I know we all have affinity for hometown guys, but smush parker is not an answer. He is a bit of a head case and shot 31% for Miami and 36% for the Clippers. Neither team kept him on for this season. If we bring players on, they need to be a part of our future, not just so we can make it look like we are trying to do something.

Now if we can pry Delfino away from his team in Russia and figure out a way to get his rights from Toronto- that might be an answer. But that seems like a long shot.

Exactly right bout those three players. And exactly right that there is probably not any one guy out there who can affect the outcome of games for this team right now….though as knick fans we all remember that Starks and Mason were not exactly household names once. However i do think that three hard working, high energy players could affect the outcome of games, simply because that would allow the talented players we do have to get a little bit more rest. If this team won 35 games and battled for the 8th playoff sport, i would be estatic and those players would benefit so much from that experience. So see if we can bring in three guys who can run around like demons, battle for loose balls, play manic defense and just give our talented guys a break. Maybe we are not the most talented team in the league, but playing this system the way it is meant to be played, we can win enough games to have a chance this season, next season and in 2010.

Parker was just a guy off the top of my head. He is not ideal, but neither is Roberson. At least Parker can dribble the ball up the floor.

As for the argument of whether or not I would rather a lottery pick or a sweep in the 1st round of the playoffs….. let’s make it there before we start talking about a sweep. Even if we did get swept, I would be hardpressed to say that I would rather be in the lottery. Unless you have a sure thing in the top 5 picks, you might end up striking out. I know he was a lottery pick, but look at Brook Lopez. He is playing pretty well for the Nets and 9 teams passed him up. There are plenty of guys that get drafted out of the top 14 that are better than players drafted ahead of them.

If we were guaranteed a top 5 pick, then sure I would rather be in the lottery. But last year tied the worst season in Knick history. We still picked 6th.

I don’t see it as a playoffs vs. draft issue. I know Alan Hahn talks about that a lot, too.

Like I mentioned before, unless we make a trade for veteran, hard-nosed defender that, as an added bonus, can shoot the ball (i.e., Raja Bell), the playoffs probably aren’t going to happen.

But on the flip-side, I just don’t see the draft yielding anything of value.

It’s either win with what we got or continue to play hard, but accept that the talent isn’t here yet….

… yet

can you tell me what the HELL DIFFERENCE IT MAKES IF IM WRIting in all capital letters or not BIGGGIE?”I USUALLY IGNORE PEOPLE WHO WRITE IN CAPS”?DOESNT MAKE IT EASIER TO READ? its easier to write in caps and easier to read what the phrig diff could it make for you to read it JAGGOVV?

I very much dig this blog, and I appreciate the analysis. By and large, you avoid the homerism of the metsblog. But, you knew there was a but coming, this analysis is too rosy by half.

And that half was Randolph. Quite a few of us have mixed reactions to the November Massacre. Crawford? Bye. See ya later.

But Randolph is 27 years old and he was playing some of the best ball of his career, passing the thing, crashing the boards, and shooting within the team flow. He was Oakley with a scoring touch. And he gave the Knicks a real toughness, not to mention he was willing to do the dirty work of scoring inside with the game on the line. And he’d discarded that infuriating jab step of his.

As for the notion that Walsh should receive the Legion of Honor award for trading him? Why? If he’s averaging 20 and 12 and getting it within the team flow, you’re really telling me you couldn’t move him in February? Or better yet next summer? Folks, the guy is 27 years old. He had many good years ahead of him, and trading him for bupkes displayed a zero basketball IQ

You want to ask us to wait two years for a good team? Fine. But give us something watchable until then.

And could you answer this question for me: Why does Winston sit on the perimeter all the time instead of using the great body to cut to the hoop? Unlike Nate, the Rook in Reality seems coachable. Get him moving.

Why is Craw buh bye see ya later but Zbo is the second coming?

Craw was the leading scorer and a go to person in crunch time.

The reason is both were selfish black hole players who can not function and excel within a team concept. Zack never met a pass he liked, never blocked a shot or played ANY defense and was the dead end of team flow. Same with Craw.

Plus Zboo was not a player that I could root for. He was a time bomb waiting to go off in a strip club. I am glad he went and would have ben OK if he went to the Clips in the off season for their second rounder (but not our first). He as part of the Zeke stench and had to be removed as soon as possible.

Mr. Biggie

You’ll get no argument from me about Crawford, a nice guy by all accounts for a no account ballplayer. Not for nothing has he never passed a minute of his career in the playoffs.

But the fact is that Zach appeared to grow — not in weight but in maturity — from one season to the next. Last year he was pure Zekeknick–jab step, jab step, jab step and jumper. A pass was a bizarre concept.

But this year, under D’A he seemed a player reborn. He was putting up stats in a team offense, and fought hard inside. We were a 40 win team with him, and a 25 win without. And let’s say I’m wrong. Let’s say in mid-February he’s putting up 20-12 but the Knicks have fallen off. You can still trade the dude.

Yours in inspired mediocrity while we await the 2010 promised land,

MP

Great Job Michael and welcome, your opinion is always welcome here. You’ve proved that already.

My thing with Randolph is that he HAD to go because he’s not a franchise player but has a franchise contract.

Franchise contracts are not always the easiest to deal so you take what you can get.

My sources tell me that Walsh lobbied hard for Camby in that deal, so much so that he moved away from the table. But he realized the opportunity to move that disaster of a contract was too good to pass on.

And understand this, Walsh is WAY TOO SAVVY to have the wool pulled over his eyes on the mobley situation, He must have seen it as a last ditch effort to find a 2 for 1 suitor for Marbury which may turn into 2 decent NBA players instead of having to call on the D league.

He couldn’t move Marbury 1 for 1 but if he had the roster spot a 2 for 1 could happen. A long shot, but it could happen so he made the Zbo deal.

I think Zach played hard, but in the end his deal was the one that had to go, and yes they could have waited but Walsh felt like the time was now.

And I agree with him.

TD

Tommy

Fair ’nuff, good points. I’m willing to acknowledge that being an NBA GM just might be harder than it looks.

Michael

I do agree with you Tommy, its just of course unfortunate that Randolph was playing so well and he really was performing in the context of what the team was trying to do. But he had to eventually go, and you always ran the risk with him that while he had been a good citizen while here, he did have a track record in the past and another transgression would have made him virtually immovable. So yeah, get what you can get when you can get it. I just think overall that this team needs some help, any help. Whats wrong with bringing a D league player in who might give 100 percent to try and earn a job? I say get some cheap help. it really cant hurt the ball club