Let’s Speculate

We can do better for Nate in my opinion. The Thunder, I would imagine, would love to dump Watson, and would probably be willing to throw in a pick.

Watson and a future 1st rounder (one of the lower ones received from other teams, not their own which will probably be in the top 5) for Malik Rose’s expiring deal. Watching this team and seeing how desperate we are for another point, this move would be far from lateral. Any deal for Malik would not be lateral so long as the player we acquire would be in the rotation. Remember, Malik does not play.

Tommy, I like Hilton too. But I think we might be able to do better for Nate. I like where your head is at with him though.

I have also read in multiple places that the Wolves would not mind shedding Mike Miller’s contract for next year, and that they are looking for an expiring deal for him.

If they are simply looking for expiring dollars, then Malik for Miller would work. If other teams do not want to take on Miller, then Rose might be the best they can get for Miller.

Miller would be perfect for us right now.

By the way, I am completely eating my words from the summer with being willing to deal Nate for Sean Williams.

I am admitting that now.

What? Tommy, I have a lot of respect for you but those are nightmare scenarios in my opinion.

We can (should) get A LOT MORE for Nate Robinson, this guy is young, talented and he’s more than a basketball player, he’s basically one of the few faces of the league. He’s worth a lot more than a few bench players and a late first rounder.

I’ll make a repost and give you my vision. I would trade – if possible – David Lee (and a protected first round draft pick if necessary) to Golden State for Anthony Randolph and a first round draft pick which we could pack with ours and climb in the lottery in order to get Monroe or Harden. I would then trade Nate Robinson to Portland for Bayless and a 2009 or 2010 first round draft pick. Considering both cases, we would then have this roster in 2010-2011 :

PG : Duhon / Portland’s draft pick
SG : Joe Johnson / Jerryd Bayless
SF : Chandler /Gallinari
PF : Randolph / Monroe
C : Free agent / Jeffries

Mucha- I was about to write about Nate to Porltand. Portland has good young talent in Fernandez and Bayless. Portland needs another guard. I remember hearing over the summer that the Blazers considered bringing in Ben Gordon for extra scoring punch in the back court. They would then use Roy as the primary ball-handler. Nate can provide that type of scoring punch. Also, if I remember correctly, Bayless had a very good workout with the Knicks. If Walsh could somehow get a pick and Bayless for Nate, I would be intrigued.

Anthony Randolph would be a good pickup for Nate, but I am not so sure that the Warriors want him. Mucha, as you have stated before, getting the right deal for Nate might require a third team.

Lee is not getting dealt.

Etan Thomas and Javaris Criitenten plus a pick, for Nate and Malik Rose.
this deal money wise works and it helps Washington cap space next yr.

Or I like Haywood hes got two years on his deal as well as well:
Crittentin Malik Rose
Haywood

I think Washington would trade one of there centers to give Javeel McGee to play more.

I LOVE the first trade of yours! I do not like the second.

Also why dont they give nate and lee a one yr max money deal???

Perhaps he’s not, like you said, but I was just expressing how I would handle the whole issue in Donnie Walsh’ shoes. And my scenario would definitely put us in a great financial situation and make us contenders in the mid-to-long term.

Bayless and a first round draft pick for Nate Robinson gets my vote. But the little man is amazing.

Why not N8 for Andray Blatche straight up? His versatility would fit well in this system and this season is over for the Wizards. Next year they’ll have Etan Thomas and Brendan Haywood back, along with the precocious neophyte Javale McGee. Plus in this draft they have a chance at Blake Griffin, making losing Blatche easier.

Hilton Armstrong isn’t producing in the NBA, after a productive collegiate resume at UCONN. I think this would make both teams better. We get a young big with potential, and the Wizards get a scorer since Arenas can’t stay healthy.

Bring the big man back home(he’s from Syracuse) !

Overrate players much?

I really don’t mean to be arrogant or disrespectful. But I REALLY don’t understand how people could endorse trades for future bench players or late first round draft picks. We’re talking about one of the few faces of this league, and like a poster said (I’m really sorry I forgot your name) Nate Robinson is a special talent who can be unstoppable on the offensive end.

Bayless and a first round draft pick for Nate Robinson would be a fair trade. Bayless has Monta Ellis potential and he could develop next year starting at the shooting guard spot, and he’d still be in his rookie contract in 2010-2011.

I wonder if a trade to San Antonio to allow malik to finish his career where he got his rings for Kurt thomas and a pick or w/e structure Walsh can work out

Nate is one of those guys I love and hate.

His ability to take over a game is very valuable and his unique combination of enthusiam and personality is infectious, but his decision making makes it’s hard for me to believe we could trust him on the court in a critical playoff game down the line. He’s liable to single handedly blow as many games as he wins.

Part of me would be sad to see him traded and part of me thinks that now is the time to do it if we could get back a quality player and a pick.

If only we could trade him and get him back in a few years, but I would keep him thats just me

Harrington/Roberson to SA for Bowen/Hill/Oberto.

Malik to Oak for Watson/1st rd pick (Late)

Marbury to Sac for Miller/Thomas/2nd rd pick 2009

Those are 3 trades im praying to happen.

Are you assuming the Knicks resign him? Because smart money seems to be that they won’t. And if I’m a team looking to acquire Nate, unless I’m prepared to give him the world in terms of money, why would I give up premium talent for a guy who can leave in the offseason. And if I’m a team convinced that I have the cash and appeal to attract Nate to an offer sheet in the offseason, again, why would I give up premium talent?

Approaching the deadline in general – and this doesn’t just pertain to Nate – I don’t know how you can settle for anything less than an athletic shot blocker.

Sue me for not thinking BIG, but here are a handful of small acquisitions I think could help the Knicks right now in varying capacities: Ronny Turiaf, Chris Andersen, Anthony Carter, Luke Ridnour, Sasha Pavlovic. Of that crew, only Turiaf has a contract that’s remotely prohibitive. No reason to go crazy at the deadline, in my opinion. The 8th seed is well within reach.

The Blazers are looking for a guard, and they will have enough money expiring this summer to resign Robinson (even if they trade LaFrentz before the deadline). They want players who are already able to contribute, Bayless has a lot of talent and a great contract but he’s still a prospect. Robinson would obviously be a better fit for the Blazers.

Lakers get:

David Lee
Malik Rose
Jared Jefferies

Knicks get:
Lamar Odom
Dj Mbenga
2010 First Round Pick

Why Knicks do it:
The Knicks get Lamar Odom a homegrown talent or might be motivated by going home and playing in front of his hometown. He has one year left and allows the knicks to shed a lot of salary and make a play if they want to resign Nate or possibly give them more room to sign a 3rd player in 2010. Knicks at the same time get someone that fits perfectly into the system as well as a legit shot blocker in DJ Mbenga although he can’t do so much more. They also get a 2010 first round pick unprotected,which takes off some of the burn from losing their own pick to the Jazz.

Why the Lakers do it:
With Bynum out the Lakers are left with a void, they need a player that can fit into the system and not alter the current system they currently use. Lee fits perfectly into the system and can play right next to Pau Gasol without also becoming frustrated with Kobe taking the majority of the shots. The lakers also get a guy with a short contract so if they feel they are fine with Bynum they could let Lee walk, but if it works out they can sign Lee long term and use him as their 6th man or find a place within their system for him. They also get a shut down defender which is always a key component for a championship contender in the west like Bruce Bowen of the Spurs. Jefferies can guard a pg to a center which makes him valuable. They also get Malik Rose who gives them more of a vet presence but they can also just waive him right away if they want, but Phil likes vets and Rose might be able to give them a few minutes down they stretch.

Conclusion:
It helps both teams in the short and long term, and therefore Donnie and Mitch Kuptchak should begin talking now.

Blatche straight up is not a good deal. I don’t know if they give up more than that for a player who will be a RFA this summer. Also, the Wizards are done for this year anyway.

We should be looking at a young point guard to back up Duhon and possibly push him for a starting role. I’d look to see what could be done with Memphis for Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley. Conley has better 3pt shooting and probably a better Dantoni fit.

Mucha I hope you aren’t serious when you say that Nate “The Great” is a face of this league. David Stern is rolling in his grave right now. Please don’t confuse his slam dunk contest wins with the overall representation of his standing in the league as a player. He is not Kobe, Lebron, or Dwight Howard. There are many “faces” of this league. Dunk contests and dancing after you make a basket does not make you a “face”. Remember Harold Miner won 2 slam dunk contest also….where is he now? As far as Nate “taking over” games. That’s ridiculous. When focused Nate can play well against bad teams. He just had the best game of his career and we still lost. If Nate could take over games then other teams would be knocking on Walsh’s door making offering to take Curry of the teams hands as long as they could just get Nate.

I always post this but as fans we need to stop overestimating the value of the teams current players. If they were that good this team would be winning.

Also, the Lakers are a Championship contender. They are not sending a key component of the team, plus a first round pick for a restricted free agent who doesn’t play defense, and 2 players who become players 12 (Jeffries)and released (Rose) on the depth chart. Well. since Nate is the “face” of the league and young and can take over games than the Lakers will be happy to trade Kobe and a first round pick for Robinson since Kobe’s getting older and can’t jump as high anymore.

I do not overestimate the value of our players, and I know that David Lee is not the new Dave DeBusschere.

Nate Robinson took over in the 4th quarter against the Atlanta Hawks, are they what you call a bad team? And yes, he IS one of the most popular players in the league, he IS one of the faces of the league but I never said that he belongs to the elite as a player. Don’t try to exagerate and make a misinterpretation of what I said.

Not enough in return in my opinion. You’re basically trading David Lee for an expiring contract and a late first rounder, I’d rather keep him in that case. Randolph and a draft pick from Golden State is a much better scenario, and it’s realistic if Crawford really decides to opt out (and he’s reportedly willing to do that).

Nate and DLee both boast top jersey sales (if that’s how you’re measuring popularity). Not surprising – they’re the two most popular players on a New York Knicks team with a reinvigorated fan base. The Knicks have been as much a boon to Nate’s star as Nate has been to the Knicks. In my opinion, Nate in nearly any other market is no longer a “face” for the league. We should be evaluating him as a basketball player and a basketball player alone. Any discussion about what Nate’s popularity and image bring to the table is, in my mind, a waste when you’re talking about the New York market. Wins are the most valuable commodity for this franchise right now. So if you’re giving me three options and they are A) Resign Nate to a long-term, lucrative contract, B) Let Nate walk in the summertime, or C) Trade him now for a package similar to the one Tommy outlined above, I’ll choose (C) every time.

Nate does have the ability to take over a game. He just does not do that on an every night basis. The guy can come in and score 20 points in 20 minutes. He can energize a crowd. He can energize a team. He is undersized, and he is erratic at times. Yes he has his flaws, but he is still a very good scoring player.

He is averaging 16, 4, and 4 per game. That is pretty good. His biggest flaw right now is that he is going to be a RFA this summer. Therefore, only a team with playoff aspirations would take him.

Explain to me why Nate is worth more than Hilton and a number one and Lee is only worth Randolph and what would only amount to a protected 1srt rounder

What makes you think portand would trade bayless?

you complete overrate Nate. He’s not a starter in this league, If you get a first round pick of any kind and a big man who can help you do it in a second.

Sorry bro, you’re wrong about nate’s value IMO.

Like the Blazers.

I think you underestimate his trade value. I was talking about his popularity because because it does add value from his image to the numbers he’ll be asking for this summer. I don’t care if he’s popular or not gozer, that’s not my point. I just said that his popularity has to be taken into account because that amplifies his trade value. And like Chris said, he’s still a 16, 4, 4 player and he’s only 24 years old.

I would trade him for Bayless because this kid could be starting at the shooting guard spot for years to come. We should NOT trade Robinson for bench players or late first rounders, we got to rebuild now and that means filling the voids in the starting lineup with young talents.

NATE ROBINSON FOR JERRYD BAYLESS.

If all three happen then who do we get rid of cause end result is 4 players for 6

Tommy is right. Nate really is not a starter in this league. But that does not diminish his value. I believe that Ben Gordon is better suited for the bench as well. Nothing against him, but he has a very similar style game as Nate. Both are undersized, scoring guards. Neither is a great defender, but both can put up big numbers quickly.

I think that Bayless and a pick would be reasonable. Hilton and a pick would be reasonable, but I am just not so sold on Hilton as a player. Armstrong is not a starter in this league either.

Andray Blatche was mentioned above. That kid has some serious game when he is on, but he is a bit inconsistent. However, he is only 22. With his size, scoring ability, and athleticism, he could be a serious player on a team like Knicks. I forgot about him, but over the summer I was thinking hard about how we could make a push for him. If for nothing else, you cannot teach size. He is a bit of a free wheeler, but that type of player can excel in this system.

@ Tommy – Nate has proven that he can be a valuable 6th man in this league, and even though I agreed with Berman’s article about him :

1. He’s still a 16-4-4 player.
2. He’s only 24 years old.
3. His great popularity gives him additional value.

I really like Bayless and his contract but he’s still a prospect and he has yet to prove that he can be a better player than Nate. And he does not have the same level of popularity. The Blazers are a playoff team and a dynamic guard who can already get big numbers coming off the bench would be a better fit than a talented prospect. Nate Robinson for Jerryd Bayless would be a fair trade.

And I’m talking about a great talent with a lot of aggressivity at the 4 spot (Anthony Randolph) and a lottery pick for David Lee. I predict that Anthony Randolph will be a better player than Lee in a few years, but I understand that he’s still a prospect and that’s why I’m talking about getting a pick (and I said “protected” because it looks more realistic).

the little man may be amazing, but you have to be fair when calculating his value.

Nate’s popularity is not any reason for a smart executive to trade for him.

i think NAte for Bayless ( a bench player by the way) is okay, but I rather have a big and a pick, even if it’s in the 20s.

you seem to be under the assumption that the Knicks are going to pay him a lot of money to be a starter.

That’s just not happening.

Very few executives actually seem to be smart anyways…

Bayless has enough upside to become a starter in my opinion, the Blazers are overcrowded in the backcourt and they want him to play the point – which is something he’s not. He’s not in the proper situation to blossom in Portland.

And I’m not “under the assumption that the Knicks are going to pay him (Robinson) a lot of money to be a starter”. I’ve always been talking about trading him for the right assets – and you know that – but a weak player and a late first rounder is not enough. We can get a lot more.

I don’t think it’d work. We’re not getting enough in return, plus Lee is going to command close to $10 million for his new contract. He’s not a 6th man in this league anymore. Also, you’re equating Jefferies to Bowen? Maybe a 37-year old Bowen, but not when he was in his prime. Not even close.

Dear Mucha, as I’ve noted earlier you’re more astute than the average basketball “fan”, but with all due respect, this lineup is “horrific”. You’re banking on Randolph wiping out all the defensive lapses made in front of him and while we both like AR,he certainly has not proven he’s a “stopper”, yet. Next you have multiple “shoot first” players and even in MD’s system, this is too much. The biggest issue I see with this team is it would represent a “major” step back for a LBJ. Let’s suggest. LBJ would have either just won or at worst, is knocking on the door of an NBA championship, and DW would be asking him to “take a step back” while we develop “rookies”, not yet proven 2nd and 3rd year players, and players who’s effeciency will diminish due to LBJ’s being the focus of the O.DW must be “portraying ” a “stable” enviornment in the Knick lineup, in order to attrach the likes of an LBJ, in my opinion.

Tommy, I know this is fun,but the truth is one of DW’s strenghts is his ability to “take a deep breath” and look over the landscape. As two “old ball coaches” we treasure the chemistry element perhaps more than most, and the good news is, so does DW. As I noted in a response to Mucha’s proposed 2010 lineup, I can’t imagine DW attracting the “premium” talents if he’s shown a propensity to ‘rework” the lineup every other game.Another thing the average fan doesn’t quite appreciate is the value of a good GM.They are delicately balancing putting a “representable” basketball product on the court,with the owners checkbook. One can’t underestimate N8′s boxoffice appeal and if I’m the Knicks marketing department, the gift shop at The Garden is being flooded with kyptoNate tee shirts as we speak. Look at Sarver,here in PHX, who’s willing to “tear up” his foundation every year, in hot pursuit of the almighty dollar!!! Keep uo the good work and let’s find a “home” in the DW administration for Mucha and BiggieSmalls, they’ve got their acts together!!

[...] not for lack of effort as, our favorites, the always reliable Tommy Dee and Alan Hahn, are certainly working their sources trying to get the goods. It just seems that [...]

I understand what you’re saying perfectly. You misunderstand me – I’m simply saying that you’re wrong. His popularity and image mean nothing to me and they don’t enhance his value, in my opinion. The only thing it is enhances is Nate’s asking price in the offseason – which, if anything, might scare a team away that’s thinking of surrendering a healthy package for him. Fine, you don’t want to trade him for inferior players. Bottom line, under your plan, we don’t find a trade partner, Nate stays til the end of the year, then we lose him to free agency. Great plan.

The silver lining would be if Donnie can package Nate in a sign-and-trade this offseason. But that’s a big IF. If only Isiah Thomas were running a team somewhere…

No GM takes popularity or jersey sales into account when they are making trades. Early Boykins had the ability to take over a game when his team needed buckets. He was always a threat to drop 20. He’s playing in Europe now.

People look at Nate and see an EXTREMELY undersized shooting guard who can’t run an offense or defend a shooting guard. Teams are not giving away talent for that. They just arent. I hope these dunk contests would raise his profile, but they don’t raise his value. Thats why theres not a national buzz about Nate trade rumors; there is more about Lee.

I believe that he gets additional value for that because it unconsciously raises his attractivity, and Nate Robinson is obviously a better player than Early Boykins. Your comparison is not fair in my opinion. Boykins had the ability to drop 20, Nate Robinson has the ability to drop 30 and 20 in a single quarter. I think we can get Bayless for him, I’m not asking for Kobe Bryant you know. I think Bayless would make a fair deal.

I like Nate as a young piece, but he becomes hihly overrated if he comes with a high price tag. I say his trade value will not be higher, and we should get what we can- especially since we likely are going to pay Lee. I don’t think there is any chance we can get Bayless, or any rookie for that matter. But I think Tommee’s prospect of a big an a pick is realistic and attainable.

In order to truly take over a game it means you impose your will on the other team. You alone are in control of the positive outcome of the game. You do this offensively and defensively. When Kobe takes over, when Lebron takes over they score at will and shut you down on the other end. Nate does NOT decide to shut anyone down, he can’t. He may have a great game 5 or 6 times a year but that does not mean he can take over a game. He does not have the ability to decide “this is the night I will impose my will”. He is a streaky offensive player, thats it. Yes, Atlanta has a winning record this year, but I wouldn’t say they are a defensive stalwart.

Yes, Nate can score, but so can 90 percent of the league if given the green light in a Mike Dantoni offense. I’m not trying to put Nate down, but I like to keep perspective and not come off like a homer when discussing my favorite team.

Nate is a spakplug, a player to get you points off the bench in bunches. Unfortunately if you leave him in long enough his erratic play, turnovers and defensive liabilities will evenutally surface. Other GM’s will also take into consideration that playing in a Dantoni system pumps up your stats considerably. Until this year wasn’t Leandro Barbosa considered the heir to Nash? Wasn’t Barbosa athletic, talented, dynamic, and electrifying? Hmmm, sounds familiar. He’s also scoring a lot of points for a losing team. Isiah Rider and Gerald Wallace come to mind.

My ‘face’ remark was in response to the fact that the comment was made that he is one of the ‘few faces’ in the league today. The league has more faces now that at any time (Lebron, Kobe, Melo, Wade, Yao, Bosh, Nash, Nowitzki, Duncan, this list goes on …). Nate Robinson may be popular in New York, but he is not on the same level the players I mentioned in terms of popularity and talent. Great, he has the most popular Knick Jerseys but so did Harold Miner back in the day.

I enjoy watching Nate play. He is a great athlete. But I would rather see him go and the Knicks acquire franchise players than watching Nate score 30 for another 30 win Knicks team. The same goes for Lee I’d rather see the team acquire players that really take over games instead of leading the league in double doubles durin a loss. Yeah, Lee is right up there with Dwight Howard in double doubles, but Howard does it for a winning team.

Cheapest fioricet….

Cheapest fioricet….