I’m shocked at the number of people I’ve seen comment saying they wanted Donnie to trade Nate today. Now, I’m the only guy, as far as I can tell, in the NY media who has often and openly stated there is no way Nate is a Knick next year and frankly I wouldn’t have traded him today without getting back that pick the Kings are owed from the Rockets via the Artest trade. But as I said before, I wouldn’t have been upset had Walsh made the Thomas for Nate and Jeffries deal. I thought the fans would be though.
So I have to ask:
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Hey Tommy, I wanted to leave a comment in this post because I thought there’d be a greater chance of you seeing it, given no one else has commented yet. Have you seen this article at ESPN by Chris Sheridan?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=Knicks2010-090217
It’s an analytical, financial-based story of how the Knicks may not be able to land even one max player, let alone two, in 2010 given the surprisingly low salary cap for that season. You say things like you know for a fact Lee will be around long term (as you said at the top of the previous post), but how do you know? What are the merits, if any, of Sheridan’s article?
Can you please address his claims in a separate post, if possible? I read this site and several others daily and have not read anything at all on the subject. Please enlighten me!
This has been discussed. Read more carefully.
No disrespect Gozer — truly, none — but I don’t believe this aspect has been discussed. Unless I’m wrong, which is always a possibility, there has been plenty of talk about the merits of keeping/dealing both Lee and Nate but none of the financial aspect of the cap and these so-called “ghost players” Sheridan addresses. I encourage you to read his article if you haven’t done so. it’s a real eye opener, as well as something I hope doesn’t come to pass.
None taken. I meant that Sheridan’s article has been linked to in the comments section and that I think most have read and discussed it. I’m not sure what else you’re looking for, aside from Tommy’s take.
Anyway, what’s to discuss? He’s right about these said “ghost players,” however the plan all along has never been to keep Curry and Jeffries around long enough to jeopardize 2010. I think Jeffries will be dealt. Whether the team can unload Curry as well is another story, though obviously it is Donnie’s #1 priority going forward. It goes without saying that we can’t have David Lee, Eddy Curry, and Jared Jeffries on this roster and still hope to sign two big free agents. In fact, most everyone is pretty much resigned to the fact that we can’t even keep both Nate and DLee.
Personally, I have a feeling Walsh may look to add a piece during the 09/10 season to both make New York a more attractive destination and to eliminate the need for a second free agent signing. Obviously though plans are dependent on Curry getting moved.
We shall see.
Also, I love Nate but people clearly don’t understand how important ridding Jeffries’ and Curry’s contracts are given the voting responses here. I wish it were different and we could hold onto Nate, but Walsh had a great opportunity to rid one of these aforementioned crucial contracts and failed to pull the trigger. I have much respect and a lot of faith in the guy so I won’t trash him or go into panic mode. i just hope he has a plan to handle this situation.
we had a long thread on this topic a few days ago..
Sheridan is right.. signing Lee and Nate means no max player.. Signing Lee for 10 mil means Lebron has to take less than 20 mil to come to NYC..
everything relies on cutting 2010/11 payroll. With Curry on the payroll making 11.2 mil we are in trouble unless we get rid of Jeffries.
Most assumed a cap of 65+ mil.. ive been saying 60 is closer.
2010/11 has these commitments
Eddy C 11..2
JJ2 6.8
09 1st 2.8
20.8
Gallo 3.3
Will 2.1
5.4
Duhon cap hold 7.2
Lee number 10.0
roster fill 4.0
COMMITMENTS 47.4
OPEN SPACE on a 60 mil cap 12.6
honestly guys, if we can trade james and almost have a taker for Jeffries, there’s no reason to believe Curry will be here.
that’s a lot off the books for a team that wants howard in 2011
trading Big Snacks was an epiphany agreed.. But we didnt gain any real financial advantage by doing so.. in fact we may have spent extra when you factor in Snacks expected insurance settlement on his 09/10 free lunch
We took back a three time loser malcontent with the chance to catch lightning in a bottle. I hope Hughes works out and its a good bet given that he will be playing for a contract ..
Most likely our opportunity to dump Curry is for a contract that similarly runs through 2010/11 .. That is IF he gets on the Floor sometime in the next 12 months which is looking increasingly less likely.
Great posts Starkstastic and to be honest, I’m still digesting the day and the shrinking of the salary cap.
I promise to do a post on it.
I understand forecasting very well. Forecasting of plenty of businesses have been horribly inaccurate over the past 2 years so I take this news with a grain of salt. Anyone who’s worked in corporate America over the past 24 months will tell you that forecasting is useful, but not the solution. It’s an educated guess.
So when I hear the NBA is forecasting a lower cap, I believe it to be true for this year. But for next year, who’s to say the economy doesn’t spike a bit over the next 12-18 and that cap number comes back to what it was this year. We just don’t know, so there can’t be a major freek out over it.
I believe David Lee wants to be here, and if he is he’ll want the utmost talent to be around him. Therefore, I can’t see him signing for 2 million more elsewhere when he can stay here for a big payday.
I think Lee is a level-headed guy. David Wright signed a negotiable deal to stay in NY too, no? and they are boyz.
Anyway, Nate’s a goner, the economy blows, but how can we worry about how that affects 2010?
At this point it makes no sense to.
I dont think the Wright comparison holds water.. Wright signed in his third year which bought out ALL his arbitration eligible years and guaranteed him 55 million dollars in return for buying out 2 free agent years.. He got paid well compared to Reyes who bought out 2 years for 23 mil..
If Lee wanted to stay here he could have come in with a 6 million dollar average request LAST YEAR .. But his agent came to the table looking for 10 mil as a starting point. Donnie of course said lets wait and see.. But his agent asking for an 8 figure AAV really blows out the comparison.
I really think at this point you guys are over thinking this.
But I appreciate it.
Donnie’s proven trust worthy and Lee wants to be here. They still have time.
let’s start thinking playoffs. Donnie put us in a situation, through his moves today, to really enjoy a team that has a chance to make a playoff push.
Let’s enjoy it. Maybe lee stays, maybe he’s dealt in a S and T. Maybe Lee is signed and Harrington and jeffries are dealt next year to use one example.
Sit back and relax.
Remember Nate said “Knick for Life” today too..
Sorry .. but I just dont see the sugar high of a one and done against the Cavs this year as being that beneficial to the long term.
Conservatively 80% of this roster will not be around in 2010/11 .. The whole town bought into the 2010 plan and being OK with watching players we could enjoy rooting for and now DW is focusing on this year and making the playoffs .. Ill root for the team but the way things are set up there is really only the Milwaukee slot in play and with two teams ahead of us and two behind us within 2 games.
Best case we win 38 games and the best teams in our conference are 20 plus games better than us.
sorry to throw cold water but i think DW fell a bit short here.
if you could have predicted the future six months ago i would have signed for this day and what Walsh has done all year, but in all honestly no one can predict anything let alone 2010 at this point…
no question..if you told me he could get rid of Randolph and Snacks I would never have believed it..
I give Donnie a B but he blew the A
2010 aint that far off..
Agree Stark —
Donnie is rolling the dice big time in trying to sign Lee this summer and THEN trade either JJ2 or Curry.. He should have really been focused on finishing the last of his cap work before the deadline.. instead of this pie in the sky playoff run..
A sign and trade will leave us at a disadvantage.. in that we will have to accept players and contracts that may not work with the plan in order to not lose Lee/Nate with no comp..
People are too concerned with adding two max contracts. If the Knicks don’t field a competitive team, they’ll be lucky to sign one.
I think ultimately Athletes follow the money. They have a window to earn and want to do it on the biggest stage to earn even more..
I also think a big factor is the coach and the players they are surrounded by.. History shows that in the NBA teams that rely on a single superstar have a low probability of winning championships. Teams with two super stars have the best chances.
Observing how Lebron values the history of the game and his place in it I think the odds are that he takes advantage of the opportunity to bring a championship to NYC after 30 plus years of none. If the team absolutely sucks and we have room for a complete overhaul in 2010/11 with two max players that may be more appealing to him than walking into a situation as the only superstar on a capped out number 8 seed… He could take that opportunity but the odds of him succeeding are probably better if he paired with another major piece.
And the Cavs will have enough money to sign one.
I feel like Donnie Walsh could have gotten more for Nate Robinson than the simple fact of dumping Jeffries – who could be traded this summer or next season. He should have dealt Robinson in another deal and gotten real value in return since you automatically lose leverage in a sign-and-trade deal. Whatever, all we can do now is pray for the future of this franchise.
Mucha- pray for the future is a little melodramatic isn’t it?
Geez, you don’t think donnie tried to deal nate? Are you really that narrow minded?
the guy has zero value.
I think Donnie taking Lee “off the market” as Hahn reported pm wednesday was a major major flaw..
it may have doomed this team to the bottom half of the playoff rung for the foreseeable future
My suspicion is Dolan had a hand in this to make a playoff run and garner more playoff revenue at the expense of Donnies real plan of getting far enough under to play for 2 big free agents.
It was haha.
I think Donnie Walsh tried to deal Nate in order to dump Jeffries, which is why he coudn’t get real value in return. Take Jeffries out of the offer and you get a better proposition.
How do you know that?
Why wasn’t the phone ringing off the hook from playoff teams? Heck, if lebron “loves” him so much why isn’t he on the Cavs?
You tell ‘em Tom Tom!
Not if he wants to keep Lee. Lee is the perfect kind of player for us right now. He has shown what he can do when he is the only big on the team. I will take 16 and 11 from my starting PF any day.
In the past, Lee has also shown what he can do when he is not the man. I will take 10 and 10 any day as well, especially when there is another post player in the mix.
For me, it would have taken a mighty haul to get Lee from the Knicks today. At some point, we have to realize that Lee is not the overrated player that some people see him as.
Anyone who is happy the didn’t deal Nate, please explain how you expect the team to be able to move Jeffries or Curry before 2010. Because if DW can’t do that, then we essentially traded our chance to have a second free agent in 2010 for 2 months of Nate Robinson, where best case scenario is getting whacked in the first round…Nate won’t be here…this is rebuilding and you need to make tough choices sometimes and this was it…Nate is a nice player, but this is two months of Nate, how much do you think a team like Sacto is going to pay for two months of a 5’7” two guard when they aren’t going to make the playoffs.
Arputter, I’m glad that didn’t deal Nate yesterday b/c the team might get more value if they wait until AFTER this season. Why deal Nate and JJ for a player that can’t help the Knicks the rest of this season and all of the next year? I get the 2010 thing, but this summer most teams will have the impression that they are a player or two away from making the playoffs. Therefore, more teams will be interested in Nate, which likely means a better deal for the Knicks (i.e. a draft pick in 2010 or a better player than Kenny Thomas’ corpse.
I’m really interested to see how Chris Wilcox looks in this system. If the guy turns into a double-double machine, then I think we have our answer in terms of whether or not D’Antoni’s system inflates a player’s numbers. And if Wilcox can produce at that level AND will command a salary closer to the mid-level than the $10M that Lee seems to want, you have to consider bringing back Wilcox and using Lee in a sign-and-trade. Heck, if you’re Cleveland or Miami or Toronto and your top priority is holding onto your superstar, maybe you take Eddy Curry in a deal for DLee. Just an idea.