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What Do You Give Lee?

by Tommy Dee on April 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am

It’s a question that has been asked over and over, but I want an answer. If you consider that Carlos Boozer is most likely going to opt out of 12 million per and Ronnie Turiaf makes around 4 million per year, Lee should get somewhere in the middle.

I would offer Lee a 4-year deal that is declining as in 8.5 million the first year, 8 million the second, 7.5 the third and 7 million the 4th. In total 4 for 31 million with an option for the 5th. If you think that he is getting 10 million plus, remember we are in a bad economy and he still struggles to hit jumper.

So I ask.

If you were Donnie Walsh what would be your offer to David Lee


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  • BiggieSmalls

    I said 5/35 but Id like to go 4/22

    not sure if he will accept any of these. It would be a good test if he REALLY wants to be in NYC.

    IF he is going to take a discount to stay in NYC it better be a good one. I mean is there REALLY a big difference between making 5.5 mil and 7.5 mil in the real world?

  • cragganmor

    I also said 5/35, maybe compromise and give him an ETO on his last season?

    In this economy, an average of $7M/year is a good deal. He’s a smart guy, knows that he has his limitations on the court and what Donnie is trying to do in ’10.

    I think he’d take that deal, he’s not hung up on being a star or the glitz and glamour, he’s a hard-working, blue collar type of player.

    If contract negotiations drag out, then his agent is playing the waiting game to see what Milsap, who produces similar numbers will get from Utah.

  • BiggieSmalls

    how is a $7 mil AAV a bargain?

    If he REALLY wants to stay I say mid level or let him get an offer sheet from someone.

  • RandomKnicksFan

    Is it possible that we could work something out with him along the lines of, 12 mil, 1st year, and then 5 mil a year for 4 more years?

    I dont know much about contracts, is that allowed?

  • BiggieSmalls

    contracts cant fluctuate more than 10.5% per year

  • Myles A. Mills

    id go with 4/22 but i wouldnt be mad at 5/35. he needs to be here and he could be an all-star next year if we’re winning. plus, he’ll be better if he doesn’t have to guard 7 footers every night, and if he has one next to him in the interior.

    let him walk and keep nate….LOL

  • BiggieSmalls

    unless he consistently hits his outside shot and plays defense he will never be an allstar

  • CircleLimit4

    I agree. I love Lee, but he’s a role player at best. I would like him off the bench for 5mil/yr but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. I would do a sign and trade while the numbers are on his side. If he had successfully developed the baseline jumper he was experimenting with the latter half of the season then maybe I’d be singing a different tune and could see him playing the 4. But the truth is he’s an undersized 5 who plays little defense. We should consider ourselves lucky that D’antoni’s system inflated his numbers so much. Pretty much any rebounding big man that has decent hands can do what Lee does, provide they put in the hustle. The part of his game that might be hard to replace is the way he went after loose balls.

  • CircleLimit4

    If Lee goes, does that automatically mean Nate stays? I think we could get a decent deal out of a sign and trade if we sell him as ticket-selling KryptoNate putting butts in the seats of a small market. Kings, Bobcats, Grizzlies?

  • bob knick slave

    the knicks are lousy,david lee is a starter for a lousy team.as the pittsburgh pirates once told RALPH KINER after he hit 50 dingers “we ended up in last place with you,we can end up in last place without you”….offer him 6 mil and get rid of nate

  • Myles A. Mills

    okay? he can consistenly hit his outside shot and become an all star is my point.

    and defense has absolutely nothing to do with being an all-star. david west, devin harris, mo williams, chris bosh all don’t play any defense whatsoever.

  • Myles A. Mills

    lee isn’t a role player at best. he average 16 and 12…is that not enough to defy that ideology? I mean, Paul Millsap’s not a role player because he’s on a better team but he’s clearly worse than Lee. I don’t see how deciding who’s a role player and who’s not works. Is there some criteria? I’ve never come across a role player who averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds.

    a role player only supplies his “role.” David Lee supplies rebounding, scoring, and finishing. so how is he a role player? Trevor Ariza was nothing btu a role player here btu now that his team is going to the finals he’s a future star, Nets suck, how is Brook Lopez not a role player?

  • dino2008

    David Lee is NOT a role player. You said any big man, who hustles can produce the numbers that david puts up in mike’s system but you are extremley WRONG. If you watched any Knicks game you would hear about 10 times a game how lee is such a great finisher around the rim because he is ambidexterous (i think thats how you spell it). Anyway Lee put up big numbers while playing out of position and is one of few big men who can finish with both hands effectively. Who would you like to replace Lee???? Bosh… quite frankly I would be extremley disappointed if we gave him 15 million per. I would MUCH rather have David back at 8 million per year and use the rest of that money to spend on someone else.

  • Mucha

    David Lee’s maybe not a role player now but he’d be a role player on a championsip team I mean that is OBVIOUS. PLEASE. If you want the Knicks to win a championship you have to give him role player money or trade him, that’s it.

    4 years 32 millions, 5 years 35 millions… that is too much in my opinion. 6-7’000’000$ per year is the maximum. The Grizzlies love him and they’ll have enough capspace to sign him. Assuming that Lee follows the money, maybe a major sign-and-trade deal could be done and I’m thinking about A. OJ Mayo B. Draft picks C. Eddy Curry.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Do you honestly think he is a top three Power forward in the East?

    Or one of the top 7 FRONT COURT PLAYERS in the East?

    We tend to see him through our NYC rose colored glasses. Bosh doesnt play defense? since when? he ws hurt this year so his numbers went down but I would not start comparing Lee’s game to Bosh’s. That is a losing proposition

  • BiggieSmalls

    I agree Lee was maybe the best player on a dreadful 32 win team. That is nothing to reward.

    Mid level type money for 4 years is reasonable. If he is SO INTO staying in NYC he will take it and have an opt out for year 4

    4 years 24.0 mil go
    5.5 in year one
    5.0 in year 2
    6.1 in year 3
    6.8 in year 4 (player option)

    again, if he REALLY want to be in NYC he will take this over an 8 mm Average annual value somewhere else.

    to offer him 7 or 8 doesnt make sense and doesnt take advantage of his “NYC discount” he said he would do.

  • akdrum

    I have been saving this for a while
    If the Knick’s brass can keep the numbers down- Keep Lee- if they can’t ,send him in a trade for a 2 yr.difference maker or young guys. N8…see ya!
    Lee is a bench guy- he can’t close games alone and is frustrated- he plays passive and is not happy-hasn’t been in a while- can you blame him?
    if he had the right guys on the court with him..watch out!
    But I dont know if thats going to happen. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those end of season exit interviews.
    I was working at a show in Clevland at the Key Area-I would torment the staff there about LeBron coming to NY-They hated the torment- they think he is going to stay because he wants go into politics and be Governor of Ohio in 15 years- kind of like Eisenhower in WW2. So i think no Lebron.
    If he can’t win the Finals with the Cav’s- …..maybe-

    I was at the Golden State/Knicks game (in Oakland)- I was really psyched to see them- I live in San Francisco and don’t get the opportunity to go to games that much.
    Here was my opportunity and it was great to see OUR TEAM. Duhon was great- Reminded me of Derick Harper a bit.
    I was concerned about their defense,the Knicks let GS score and score. Crawford…what a hog.
    I remember one of the Van Gundy rules.If they come into the paint “no easy layups” KNOCK EM DOWN-The reason was so that the other team would think twice about going into the paint. Not anymore. It was terrible and heartbreaking-
    Im getting the impression they don’t want to extend themselves because they all know they’re (possibly)outa here after this season.
    What a bunch of premadonna’s! Contract PUSSY’s- 144 points..Agh!
    I had to walk my ass down to the court to yell at Chandler “C’mon Chandler”! and he heard me-this guy is hot and cold..mostly cold and withdrawn.
    When he wants to play-he’s a monster.But at the Golden State game totally non-existant. My buddy and I were just watching him stand there,we were amazed.
    If they can trade him the better. No fight in this guy. Ive read articles on how quiet he is,soft spoken. That should tell you about the way he plays. SOFT-Maybe they feed him chocolate before some games and his blood sugar goes up and that’s when he plays like a monster.(LOL) He’s gotta go. Nate Robinson is a great athlete but has no brains. Chuckin and no passing .He’s a bench guy…deep bench..He’s gone and we won’t miss him. They should and will get rid of him.

    You should have seen D’antoni getting ripping pissed when Robinson (and sometimes Lee)did something stupid. I know they don’t show all of D’Antoni’s reactions on the court on MSG- but man o man. I feel bad for him(as a coach)-He knew when he took the job it’s a rebuild-he’s got a bunch of pussys on the team.I watched Lee carefully..He is the closest thing to an Ol Knick. But he is a non factor- You could tell he doesn’t want to get injured and has a “It’s just a game ” approach. No killer instinct at all-he’s not like like Marcus or late 80′s/early 90′s Ewing. Hey remember when Spree would just take it to the paint? well I gotta say Harrington was the only one that did.He’s was trying hard. I think the Knicks will keep him after 2010.He’s a tough guy,but dribbles like Allan Houston.Need’s to work on his dribbling threw the paint- then he’ll be OK. Man were the GS fans loud when he got the ball. How can you play with that noise. Well that’s what you get when you shoot your mouth off–Gallo, I’ll wait another year,but for now DEEP BENCH. Remember LJ played with a bad back his whole Knick career. But Gallo has a nice shot. Jeffries is a decent bench player. He just needs to be a bit tougher.He runs like he has take a crap.LOL! But he was the only one that got in their faces on D. That’s how you gotta be.
    Now D’Antoni..man- He was yelling at the Knicks every time they screwed up. And it was constant.I thought he was yelling at the Zebras ,but it was the Knicks. Man, he is the poster person for patience and Impatience. When they were getting blown out,we just watched him-he just gave up,sat down,crossed his legs with a look of a teacher that has idiots for students. And had that look on his face like he’s not going to last unless Donnie makes some serious moves…soon. He could get to the point where he just gives up like JVG. However, If they get rid of N8,Lee and Chandler for some dfference makers WHO ACTUALLY PLAY HARD,he would be happier.He is not having a good time. WHO do you blame? In order> Checketts,Ewing,Layden then Isiah put the nails in. Now let’s see if Dr.Donnie Frankenstien and Igor D’Antoni& JD can be patient and make great moves to find the difference makers. My crystal ball sees Joe Johnson and his other buddy from the Hawks, Bosh?, Nash(he’s coming says a little birdy), on the Knicks sooner then you think. Oh,Earl Watson is a good player- was fast and good D. Maybe Amar? Iguadala? 2011 Howard is available-Walsh is influenced by the NY Yankees Gene Michaels and Brian Caahman blueprint- Be patient and enjoy the ride when it comes…

  • Bart

    System, System, System should I say it again o.k. System, David Lee is a product of his environment. A high amount of shots equates to a high amount of rebounds, not to mention no one else on the team rebounds, if Lee was paired with a guy that gets after rebounds he wouldn’t have put up the numbers he did. Sign and trade him for, oh I almost forgot HE PLAYS NO DEFENSE you can’t win with _avi_ Lee. Sign and trade him he’s no where near as talented as Chris Bosh not even close. Nate is a different story he’s the best as what he does, he’s the best 6th man in the league hands down he’s better than Terry and Smith so if they keep him I won’t be mad but Lee has to go. Honestly none of those 2 are safe in my eyes if the right deal comes I trade both.

  • Mucha

    That being said, David Lee would be a keeper if he was a hustle player which is something he’s not. The main problem that I have is the fact that he doesn’t play like a hustle player. He definitely needs to play harder.

  • Mucha

    Last year, the Grizzlies wanted to trade the opportunity to draft OJ Mayo for David Lee – when he still was a bench player. You can tell me – Mayo has proven that he’s not a bust, why would they trade him for David Lee now? Because they were in love with Lee and he led the league in double-doubles this year – getting MIP love from Chris Webber!

    Assuming that Lee follows the money – and the Grizzlies will have enough capspace to make a huge offer – could Donnie Walsh sign-and-trade David Lee and Wilson Chandler (or this year’s pick) for OJ Mayo and filler?

  • Myles A. Mills

    o word biggie? so granger being the best player on a 36 win team doesn’t mean anything?

    oh, and vince carter being the best player on a 34 win team means naught?

    Don’t fool yourself, Bosh’s team won 1 more game than us.

    Don’t set contradictions, all those guys will still be getting paid way more than Lee after this extension. Equating Lee’s worth to this team’s record isn’t fair.

  • BiggieSmalls

    I wouldnt give granger star money off this year.

    And Bosh and Carter have a history of taking big shots and leading their teams to much much better than they did this year. Carter is a shadow of his former self. Still good but NOT a max player given his current performance. Which is why the Nets are what they are. Im sure you know Bosh and Carter got paid on what they did in LEADING their team to the playoffs and more than what their current win totals show.

    Ariza, as improved as he is, is a role player. He would never ever be doing what he is doing this year if he didnt have Kobe and Gasol on the same team. He could not lead a team . No way. Would you give Ariza a 9 mil a year contract based on his performance this year? I hope not.

  • CircleLimit4

    Agree to disagree, but I think you’re kidding yourself if you think D’Antoni’s system doesn’t have a effect on Lee’s offensive output. I can’t count how many times he got the friendly end of a pick and roll.

    I’m not taking anything away from Lee. He’s a good player and gets the job done offensively, but the blaring lack of size, defense or a jumper makes me weary of $8-10mil payday one season before 2010.

    And It’s not so much “Who would I like to replace Lee”, It’s more like “What what roster dilemma could be solved by trading Lee.” We could get a 2010 draft pick, unload Jeffries contract, get a solid 1, 2 or 4 as well as a 5. You say you would rather have Lee for $8 than Bosh for $15. Well, I’d rather have an Andray Blatche for $2.7 and have some wiggle room for 09 (R)FAs like Ramon Sessions, C.J. Watson, Jarret Jack, Ben Gordon, Chris Andersen or Charlie Villanueva (if Al forgoes his last year) and grab who we can in 2010.

  • CircleLimit4

    Has Memphis expressed interest in trading Mayo? I always thought Mayo was untouchable in his rookie contract, like most of the top rookies this year. I know the Memphis front office has habit of giving away their best players for chump change, but Mayo isn’t even eating up cap. The Grizz are strapped for cash, why would they give away their relatively cheap future-all-star, jersey and seat selling rookie? I think we’d need to give them Lee, Chandler AND Nate along with taking on the Marko/Darko contracts to even get a sniff at OJ.

    I think the best we’d get is something more like: Lee and Chandler for Rudy Gay and Darko Milicic’s expiring contract and a draft pick. Jeffries and Hakim Warrick might be involved too.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    I agree that being an allstar doesn’t have much to do with defense, but Bosh plays none whatsoever?

    I have been hearing this lately when people try to compare him to Lee, and I don’t get it. I see bosh as the same player Garnett was in Minnesota just a little smaller and weaker. He has the same motor, the same will to win, and the same defensive mentality. He was injured this year, and probably frustrated and unmotivated. Don’t forget what he did for us in the Olympics. He was the best big man on the court on BOTH ends of the floor; He was absolutely beastly. Lets not disregard him because of one season in which he didn’t even play so badly. If we got him he would average at least 25 and 12, and would be an active shot blocker, a guarenteed allstar, and if somehow we made it to a top four seed, he might even get a few MVP votes.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    I agree with you Dino. The problem is that he put up those numbers ‘playing out of position,’ but that is the only position he can play for us. We can’t have a power forward who can’t shoot the ball further then ten feet out. For example, if we got bosh, we couldn’t put lee next to him, they would just get in eachother’s way; they both would play the same roll. We need to space the floor with at least 4 of our players, if not five.

    While Lee may appear to be out of position because of his height, that is really the only position he fits. He is a great rebounder and a great finisher on the pick and roll; that’s it. If position were determined by size, jeffries would go in as a small forward.

    So… a 6’9 player who can only play center, is like a 6’0 player who has no court vision or passing skills and can only shoot the ball (play shooting guard.) Both will put up stats if given the right opportunity, but both represent significant team deficiencies.

    I do agree that i would rather keep Lee for cheap and be patient for our superstars, then rush to sign Bosh to a huge contract. But lets not fool ourselves, Lee is and will be a center for us if he stays here, and therefore we will always have the defensive defficiencies that we had this year. At least bosh will be able to put up the amount of points we expect out of our big man, (the amare roll), as well as block and contest many more shots and play better on ball defense.

    Ideally, i would keep Lee even if we got bosh, and let him come off the bench, but i don’t think that works out on the balance statement.

    On another note… there is NO WAY that Lee is better than milisap. Milisap would average a double double for us also, but he is a much stronger, faster, rougher, and pretty much ‘bad-ass’ player who would improve our defense tremendously.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    BTW, Lee could play PF on a different team, preferably one that likes to play in the half court, and probably prove that he is not so bad at defense. I was referring to our team and our system when i said that he only fits the Center roll.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    Mucha – a big sign and trade with the Grizzlies for Lee is very possible, especially for draft picks and maybe even for eddy curry, but no way they are bouncing OJ mayo. They want to build around him, they love him there and have faith that he will soon be one of the leagues’ elite shooting guards (I believe this also).

    I think a more realistic option is Rudy Gay. He hasn’t played well since Mayo showed up, but he definitely showed that he’s capable of being a star. He only makes 3.2 next year and is an RFA in 2010-2011 with a 4.4 Qualifying offer.

    He may not fit any specific need we have, but its very doable and something worth discussing.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    No. OJ is now untouchable, its not even something worth discussing. I think they would do that same trade you listed for Gay though. Gay would pretty much take chandlers spot (which i guess you can call an upgrade) and only makes 3.2 next year, with a QO of 4.4 the year after.

    I don’t see the point in that though; I would rather keep young, cheap, developing players for now… I’m not trying to trade chandler unless its for an allstar.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Perfect comments on Bosh Jeff.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    Tangent:… So… IF bosh becomes available for a trade this summer after turning down an extension, the only type of deal that would have a chance of getting it done would be something like Harringtons 10 mil expiring contract, Chandler, and Duhon, for Bosh and a future 1st rounder or 2nd rounder, or some other small filler. I’m not even sure if i accept that trade, especially the one with Duhon. In fact, the Raptors probably wouldn’t be up for that either; They will probably demand a supreme young talent on a rookie contract as well as valuable draft picks and maybe even a good veteran.

    We just won’t be able to offer what other teams will be able to, and we shouldn’t be willing to accept losing Wilson, and 1 or 2 of our good expiring contracts unless we are unloading curry or jeffries.

  • italian stallion

    At best, Lee is the 3rd or 4th man on a championship caliber team. In fact, I woud not be totally shocked if he’s 2nd or 3rd best on the Knicks by the end of next year. His rebounding and scoring numbers are inflated by the Knick’s pace. In addition, you could argue that since the Knicks don’t really have a Center (or a solid rebounding PF besides him if he plays C), that his rebounding production will fall at the margin once they get one.

    Look I like Lee a real lot. He’s one of 3-4 guys I would like to see remain on the Knicks long term. But he had a perfect set of circumstances in which to produce stats this year and the Knicks are so freaking bad, some fans are overestimating how good he is because he’s our best player so far.

    He can’t play defense, can’t block shots, is not much of a go to guy down the stretch, has no reliable outside shot yet etc..

    What he is is an efficient scorer around the basket and an above average rebounder. A team can certainly use a guy like that! But he’s only a slightly above average starting PF at best when viewed as an overall player.

  • BiggieSmalls

    1. I doubt the Raptors would deal in Division if they had multiple options.

    2. I think somehow Dallas would get involved or some other Western Conf team- not sure of the pieces

    3. Im not crazy about adding him as a Max 15 plus million dollar player in the year before Lebron.

  • Sergio

    Zero years, $0.

    David Lee is a BACKUP PF. You do not spend $7M-$8.5M on a backup. Lee is a TERRIBLE defender in every aspect (one on one, help). He cannot get a basket in the clutch. He’s not a leader. He’s just a rebounder and he got 16 ppg because of the system. Jason Maxiell and Ronny Turiaf would also get 15-16 ppg in this system. Are they $8.5M players?

    Let Lee walk (S&T) and sign a TRUE starter in 2010.

  • Mucha

    We do have one comparative advantage, that’s the combination of expiring contracts and young talent. The Warriors obviously have more talent to offer than we have but they don’t have any contract expiring. The Blazers have a lot of talent to offer as well but they have enough finesse players in my opinion.

  • Mucha

    The only problem that I have is the fact that – considering that he’d be a role player on a championship team – he would not do what great role players do in order to get wins down the stretch. I’m talking about taking charges, hustling on defense and hitting the open jumpshot.

    He’s not a back-up power forward in my opinion, he’s a legit starter and – despite what I said before – he’s better than Millsap. He’s really a good player. Would I sign-and-trade him for Rudy Gay? Yeeeah, without a doubt. He’s clearly better than Wilson Chandler in my opinion – and he’s not even older. Then I’d trade Wilson Chandler for Jordan Hill or put him in a bigger package for Chris Bosh.

  • italian stallion

    Lee is better than Wilson right now, but I wouldn’t be so sure about that by 2010. Wilson will be 22 in a few weeks and has one year of real playing under his belt. Lee will be 26 this week and has 4 years under his belt.

  • Funk

    I would hold onto Chandler, he is still only 21 and very raw. If he continues to improve, he is going to be great. Lee in reality is a 12/10 player, and so are most back up PF’s in this league, if you gave them 30 minutes a game. I don’t think Lee is worth signing for anything more than $5.5-$6 million a year. I would love to move him and say jeffries for Rudy Gay. Gay would be a stud in the SSOL offense. He is an above average 3-pt shooter, a great defender, a strong finisher, decent rebounder, and still very young. he is also versatile and can play a few positions for us. I would love for us to sign and trade Nate with a team like the kings. If the kings get the 1st pick and take Blake Griffin, they have a crowded front court, and may look to move Hawes or Thompson. Sign and trade Nate for Hawes and a filler player/future pick. Hawes is a 7 footer who plays decent defense, and is a great shooter. Duhon, Chandler, Gay, Gallo/Harrington, Hawes has 8th seed playoff potential. And depending on who we get in the draft (hopefully Rubio or Harden) can make the lineup even stronger.

  • Mucha

    Good post but you are dreaming, the Kings will never trade Hawes. If they get Griffin they’ll try to move Thompson, because he’s their power forward.

    Now, I’d love to have Rudy Gay. He’s an All-Star under D’Antoni. He’d give us a lot of “flexibility” because we’d then be in a great position to trade Wilson Chandler in order to fill another void. I’ve watched the Grizzlies several times this year, he’s definitely better than Chandler in my opinion – he’d be a second option.

  • Funk

    You really think Hawes would be held onto over Thompson? Thompson is 6’11′ and can play the center position. I wouldn’t mind having him either, although he has zero control over his body when he plays. What i was really trying to get at, is that a player like Hawes would be great under D’antoni.

    Gay is definitely better than Chandler right now. I feel like Gay has more upside as well. I would hold onto Chandler and build him as a player. He costs very little to own, and can eventually turn into a great player.

    Mucha, what would be your ideal situation involving nate with a sign and trade? Who do you think we should target, assuming we could move Lee for somebody like Gay.

  • italian stallion

    Rudy Gay is a hair better shooter than Wilson, but is 2 years older and has more than an extra year of play.

    I’m not sure what your problem with Wilson is, but he’s not the KNICKS problem. He’s a hair below average for a starting SF, but he’s very young, very inexperienced, and finished off the season really well. The Knicks have much bigger problems and should be looking to fix those. There is no need to move Chandler unless you can back back a player much better than Gay because of the other ingredients.

    These are our problems:

    1. Duhon was playing almost average PG early in the season, but he was well below average in the latter part.

    2. We have no backup for our below average starting PG.

    3. The Knicks have no solid SG. They need a guy that can knock down shots on a consistent basis. If you convert Wilson to a 2 and move Gallo to the 3, then we have to hope that Wilson improves his outside shot and shot selection quite a bit over the summer because he’s not really a 2. He can play it in spots. .

    4. We have no Center at all unless you consider tubby (I mean Curry) a possibilty (which is a very low probabilty event).

    5. WE have too many players playing a lot of minutes that are idiots even if they are very talented (Harrington and Robinson).

  • italian stallion

    I think the Knicks shold stay with a core of Chandler/Gallo and LEE (if they can get him for 6 million or so). If they can’t get Lee for 6 million, then they should look to do a sign and trade. The same is true with Robinson, but to tell the truth I’d rather just package him and get rid of him because he’s not mentally mature enough to be part of championship team and IMO never will.

    There’s simply no reason to even consider moving guys like Chandler or Gallo because they both have a lot of upside, are good “character” players, are cheap right now etc… You have to get back WAAAAAY more to consider moving either of them. I would feel the same about Lee, but he has less upside because he’s older and has been around longer, but mostly because he may get priced above his fair value and that NEVER EVER makes sense.

  • Mucha

    Rudy Gay is a lot better than Wilson Chandler and he’s less than a year older – get your facts straight. I have no problem with Wilson Chandler whatsoever but I’d rather have Gay 1. From a basketball perspective 2. From a buisness perspective because then you can use Chandler to trade up or trade for a lottery pick on draft night.

    Rudy Gay would be an All-Star under D’Antoni anyways and he has a better understanding of the game I mean that is obvious. Wilson Chandler doesn’t get a lot of attention, Rudy Gay was the go-to-guy in Memphis even though he had to share that position with OJ Mayo this year. I mean this is not only about Gay anyways, I’m also talking about flexibility.

    I’d rather have :

    * Lottery pick / Sign-and-trade for Robinson
    Danilo Gallinari / Larry Hughes
    Rudy Gay / Quentin Richardson
    Jordan Hill / Al Harrington
    Eddy Curry / Jered Jeffries

  • italian stallion

    Mucha,

    You are right. There is only a 1 year difference in age. But Gay has played in 78, 81 and 79 games over the last 3 seasons while starting in most and Chandler has played 35 and 82 games starting in very few the first season. So he has more than 1 year of extra NBA playing experience.

    Statistically they are fairly similar except that it appears that Gay has a better outside shot and that leads to somewhat better efficiency and a higher PPG. But other than that, there is not much difference in steals, rebounds, blocks, assists, turnovers, fouls, FT% etc… Each has a narrrow edge in various categories.

    AS I said, Gay is a tad better than Candler right now mostly because he’s a better outside shooter, but Chandler is raw and can improve his 3p% etc… just by making better decisions. He already improved his shot from the first season to the second and I think we can expect a little more more next year. I have no great desire to make what what would probably be a sideways move. At best Gay will wind up being a mildly better player, but not a difference maker unless Chandler does not improve at all from here despite being younger and less experienced.

  • italian stallion

    Mucha,

    Basically, what I am saying is that if you are going to do a sign and trade for Lee, we could just as easily get something we need directly instead of making a lateral move for Gay and then trading Chandler for something we need unless you are sure Gay is going to be a lot better than Chandler. Statistically, I don’t see him as much better now and as I said, Chandler is NOT the same age and has way less NBA playing experience.

    I’d really like to see Chandler for one more year. I already know what Gay has.

  • CircleLimit4

    That’s a good point. The beauty of our Gallo/Chandler 3 is that Chandler can move to the 2 and Gallo could probably make due at the 4 if his inside moves show half the promise of his shooting game. I envisioned using this position pliability to welcome a powerfully efficient SF ala Lebron (obviously), Melo, Pierce or, to a lesser extent, Artest.

    The thing is that trading Wilson could be our ticket to a 2010 pick or could unload Jeffries contract for the right parts. Our intentions should be to keep Wilson, but I wouldn’t take him off the table completely.

  • Mucha

    I see that experience as a plus, and we’ll need to make the playoffs.

    Wilson Chandler has not a great “understanding” of game, he’s talented but if you look at him you can see that a lot of his actions are premeditated. And he never gets a lot of attention that’s why he gets many open looks and enough space to get in the paint. What you got to take into account is the fact that Rudy Gay was a go-to-guy, the kind of player who draws attention and – except OJ Mayo this year – his team doesn’t have any kind of shooter so the lanes are crowded.

    I can’t understand why you say “At best Gay will wind up being a mildly better player, but not a difference maker unless Chandler does not improve at all from here despite being younger and less experienced”. Are you kidding me? I mean he’s already better and he has to play against tougher defense every night. And please, Chandler is less than a year younger, that’s not even a factor.

    What you have to understand itallionstallion is the fact that the Grizzlies love Lee and – assuming that they won’t get the first overall pick – they’ll be willing to spend a lot of money for him. And they have a lot of assets (unlike the Detroit Pistons for example). If OJ Mayo’s not availabe, Rudy Gay’s the man and if you get him you’ll have more flexibility because Chandler could be shipped for several reasons. You can put him in a bigger package for Chris Bosh, you can move up in the draft to get Rubio, you can get another pick, you can trade him and dump Jeffries or Curry in the process…

  • Funk

    I agree with Mucha. In NO WAY do I wanna trade Chandler. I think he is one of the few bright spots this team has, and I think he is only going to do great things for the knicks. I think if we can get a 1st round draft pick in this draft, or in 2k10, or drop curry’s contract, a trade involving chandler shouldn’t be overlooked. I don’t think hes worth trading to unload Jeffries contract because there is more of a need around the league for a player like him. Curry, well I couldn’t name one team that would take him right now. That would be the only circumstances where Chandler’s name should be involved in trade talks.

    If we can trade Lee and Jeffries for Gay/darko and a pick, I think we pull that trigger. Memphis is obviously high on Lee, and in desperate need for frontcourt help, I can see them unloading a player like Gay. If we were to acquire Gay from memphis, I think we should keep Chandler as well.

    What/who do you think we could acquire for Nate involving a sign and trade? If we wanna bring in a stud to attract lebron, do you think we could package Nate and the expiring contract of Hughes for a player of Bosh caliber? Maybe Amare? Or is it better for us to let his contract expire?

  • Jeff Cykiert

    A sign and trade with Nate and Lee isn’t as likely as you think, but it would be great for us if it brought in any rookie contracts or got rid of any of our bad contracts. I hope some teams want them enough to do that. I think the Kings really want Nate, but if you look at their roster and salaries, nothing there is really enticing, unless they agree to trade us Rubio after the draft (which won’t happen.) Lee to Memphis seems like the most likely possibility.

    The Grizzlies most likely wont be interested in trading Gay in his rookie contract, that same way we don’t want to trade chandler, but i could definitely see something like Lee for Darko and Warrick (two expiring contracts) happening. That is the kind of trade we should be looking to make for Lee and nate; we probably won’t bring in any great young players, but there is an opportunity to shed jeffries’ contract, or maybe even curry’s in a bigger deal if we include harrington or duhon.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    Oh, and getting Darko and Warrick isn’t just filler; they would more then fill the hole left behind by Lee. Who knows? Darko could end up having a break out season for us.

  • Funk

    I’m actually a fan of Hakim Warrick’s game. He is a good player, and given the right setting, I think he can be a good role player. He’s agile and a good finisher around the rim. Darko I have no faith in. I can’t see him doing anything good for us in NY.

    I think we might be selling Lee short if we only get warrick and darko. We would at least need a 1st round draft pick thrown in to sweeten the deal.

    I only mentioned Rudy Gay as an attainable player from memphis because of how highly they view David Lee. Gay has put up good numbers for Memphis, similar to how Lee has put up decent numbers in ny.

    Another player who the knicks could look to sign and trade nate for is Ramon Sessions. This kid is a stud and would be a perfect fit for the run and gun offense. Getting him from a sign and trade involving Nate would fill our needs at the PG position (assuming the pong balls don’t come in our favor allowing us to grab Rubio). If we could trade Nate for Sessions and a 2nd round pick, I would be thrilled. And if we do end up getting a pick bw 5-8, we can go for a guy like Harden who can be our SG for many years to come. Sessions, Harden, Chandler, Gallo/Harrington, (insert center here). If we were able to do a situation like this, we could use David Lee as trade bait for a versatile shot blocking center..

    for the record, I love coming up with possible scenario’s of what can happen in the next few months. We need a topic here to post some potential (realistic and unrealistic) situations! Make it happen Tommy Dee!

  • Jeff Cykiert

    We wouldn’t just be trading lee for Hakim and Darko… we would be using Lee (who might end up leaving anyway) to get rid of Jeffries’ or Curry’s contract. That is something worth considering.

    It is not realistic so say we should sign and trade nate for sessions or lee for gay… Think of the scenario from those teams’ points of views. Besides, R Sess is a free agent this summer.

  • Funk

    I misread your comment before about trading for hakim and darko. Makes a lot of sense to lose either of those contracts, and if thats what it takes, it has to be considered.

    Why is it not realistic for a s&t with nate for sessions? Both are restricted free agents this summer, Sessions is a pass first pg who can score and get to the ft line. Nate would be a good fit in milwaukee as the main ball handler while being another scoring option next to Redd, Jefferson, and sometimes Villanueva. Plus bringing in a player who has some star power can be a nice bump for the bucks, who are ranked 24th in the NBA in attendance. Both sessions and nate are going to get similar contracts, both would fill needs for each team. Why do you think a deal like this is unrealistic?

  • Mucha

    The Grizzlies will have to resign him next year if I’m not mistaken – and they are not in love with Gay but I know that they love David Lee. They wanted to trade their 5th pick for Lee, they’d trade Gay for him. If not, a 2010 draft pick. I mean come on, they wanted to trade OJ fukking Mayo for him when he was still a bench player.

    Lee for Milicic and Warrick is Isiah-ish.

  • CircleLimit4

    Gay would be nice, and I love my UConn products but I’d rather get a first rounder and filler for Lee. Maybe Hakim Warrick, Haddadi and the rights to Juan Carlos Navarro.

    We probably could have grabbed Conley before Lowry was traded. Oh well.

  • jws366

    Yes, there is a REALLY big difference. 2 Million dollars a year is not negligible, especially when you are coming off a much smaller contract. This is supposed to be his pay-day.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    I think it’s unrealistic because Sessions isn’t a restricted free agent; he’s an unrestricted free agent, and he had a great year and is currently making pretty much nothing. I would expect him to play the market.

    Nate, on the other hand, would have to agree to whatever deal we make, and i don’t know if he would want to go to Milwaukee.

    For us, a sign and trade like that would be the same thing as just signing sessions from free agency (if the money is equal), because we are probably letting nate walk either way, so i guess it is possible that we get him either way if we really do want him. Maybe its not as unrealistic as i thought.

  • jcmoney

    I dont think you understand the concept of a role player. The success of a team does not dictate whether or not a player is a role player. A role player is a player who has a specific purpose on the team, and does not need to to other things in order to be successful. For instance, Balkman comes in and gives instant energy and defense, and then subs out. He doesnt need to have the ball or to get shots to be effective.

    Milsap was a role player for the Jazz for a few years, coming off the bench and really just grabbing boards. This year in Boozers absense he filled out his game and became for of a scoring option and got more minutes. The fact that the Jazz are a good team doesnt make him a role player. Lopez, on the Nets, is not a role player because he is a starter. He is asked to do everything a Center would do. And Ariza was a great role player who found his jump shot and is getting an expanded role in the offense. But, even in the beginning of this year, Ariza was kind of a high energy role player.

    And David Lee supplies rebounding, scoring, and finishing? Isnt finishing scoring? You mean he can finish at the rim on a fast break or something? I dont think I would list that as a player’s asset.

  • Funk

    Sessions is a restricted free agent this summer. See this here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

    Milwaukee might be enticing to nate. He can go there and be a big name player, something that he would love to be. Plus there is talent all around him in Redd, Villanueva, Jefferson, and Bogut..as long as they all stay healthy.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    According to that, I am wrong. I was referring to hoopshype.com, which is where i usually get that sort of info from.