We Need a Shot-blocker… the Numbers Prove It!

great post, i think joakim noah could be had easier than ty thomas, since i think the bulls will draft bj mullens

I say Memphis is our best trade partner. Darko didnt even average a block in 17 mins . Boy , as the 2nd pick in that draft , this might go down as teh biggest mistake in history.

I could see Mobley’s deal , #8 for Rubio and Darko

So many possibilities…… it going to get real interesting

I wanna see if we can rip Birdman from Denver’s clutches.

out of the guys mentioned,I would like to see DeAndre Jordan….he just seems like a big bag of potential…but Ty Thomas would be great in D’Antonis system…And Ryan Hollins seems like one of those guys that just hasnt got his opportunity to prove themselves yet

And I dont think any of them will cost us alot in a trade

The only team I can see the Knicks having a chance to swap picks is with the Grizzles. Though I am not sure what The Grizzles main MO would be to actually make the move out of the #2 spot.

I think Knick fans put too much weight to teams looking to take on expiring contracts… ( Grizzles surely are in a noce postion presently)

With that said..

I think the Knicks stay put at eight (J. Holiday).. and work a trade with the Bobcats in the Summer dangling Lee/ Robinson and or Curry… (Not that I am looking to see Lee go). For a Raja Bell and or Boris Diaw

If Donnie Wals can also figure out a way to pry Camby back to New York..

Well I will think the Knicks will have placed themseoves to make a realistic playoff push for 2009-2010

Milicic averaged .8 bpg in 17 mpg. In the two previous seasons, he averaged 1.6 and 1.8 blocks per contest. If the Grizzlies would taked Q Rich for him, then I say go for it. I think that the Grizzlies would even throw in an extra draft pick to make that deal work. The Grizzlies own the 27th pick in the draft in addition to the 2nd. If the Grizz do not relinquish that 2nd pick and they take Rubio, the Knicks can use that 27th pick to go after a player like Darren Collison or a player that slips deep into the first round.

Collison can fall to 27.
Teague?
Mullens?
Budinger?

Someone can drop.

And as we all saw the last couple of years, especially with late first round picks, if a player drops that another team likes, they are usually willing to give a future 1st for that pick. That happens when a team is a perrenial winner and they know the future pick is not likely to be high. The Knicks would luck out big-time if that happened and they got a late 1st rounder next year.

Thanks Chris I was just hoping some people weren’t forgetting how bad we need Shot Blocking. I think Birdman loves it in Denver. But hey lets try. I read somewhere that the Bulls were unhappy with Ty Thomas ending performance.

Budinger!!

I think it will come down to how close this Nuggets/Lakers series ends up. I can see the Nuggets getting outbid. The question he’ll be mulling over is; Does he want the money or the ring and could he get both in Denver or elsewhere? It will definitely be an interesting off season for him.

I agree, I think Ty might be a goner, especially if they can’t move Deng or Heinrich to rummage some Ben Gordon money. Noah was the spark plug for their gritty series with Boston, I think he’s the keeper there.

Say Donnie is able to work a deal with the Grizzles and the Knicks get back the 27th pick… I would love to see The kid from Arizona – Budinger! He would fit right in…

But man I want to be realistic though.. I just don’t see a scenerio like that panning out…

B~

I kinda dig that scenario. It doesn’t hurt that Milicic isn’t even 24 yet. Assuming we use our 8th pick for a PG I would like Gani Lawal or an SG like Marcus Thorton or Wayne Ellington at #27 to supplement the Q and possibly Nate. If we use our 8th pick for another position then I like Teague (if he’s in), Collison or Calathes at 27.

You gotta stop with the Rubio trade talk guys are gonna get riled up and start with the crazy trade talk that said.

I’m still not sold on Holiday I think hes gonna be a bust I wish I could see what everyone else does but I can’t right now. In my opinion he has the same skill set as Duhon – good defender, good passer, hes prob a good 3pt shooter but I don’t know didn’t watch him enough. I do know that E Maynor had him in foul trouble in the VCU tourney game and I was extremely impressed with E Maynor in that game in which he didn’t even play particularly well.

I know what Steph Curry is great at – Shooting the rock and High IQ

I know what Brandon Jennings is great at – Playmaking and Athleticism

I know what Rubio is great at – Playmaking and a Great defender

Even E. Maynor who I think is underrated – Great scorer and a great Playmaker very Clutch

Jrue seem to be just average to good at every thing average athlete, average shooter, average passer, good defender, to me that equals a average PG who can defend his position not worth our 8th pick.

Oh as a Knick fan, that is a great scenerio… I just don’tsee the Grizzles putting in the pick as a Throw-in. To your point he is only 24 So If I am Memphis I stand pat and ride out Milicic.

If the Knicks can walk away with either Holiday or Curry.. then the Knicks will have had a nice draft.. anything else is gravy..

Budinger – Future Sixth Man of the year, he could be a starter but him off the bench would be perfect, hes a much more athletic version of Brent Barry and he has size, one thing I hated the most last year was Nate and Duhon playing at the same time I even hate watching West and Mo Williams on the court together, size in the back court is underrated its defiantly a asset to have guards with size and skill.

@ Chris – I don’t think there’s any way the Clippers give up on DeAndre Jordan so early. He’s a center, so drafting Blake Griffin won’t affect him at all. He compliments Griffin extremely well. He’s still on a rookie contract, and he had a game last year where he pulled down 20 rebounds.

I think the Clippers are gonna move Kaman and Zach Randolph. Detroit makes sense for Kaman. They’ve got a ton of cap room this summer and next. Chicago makes sense for Zach Randolph. Maybe for Tyrus Thomas and Kirch Hirnrich.

I think Zbo and Joakim Noah are a great fit. Randolph will give them all the lowpost scoring the were missing during the playoffs. Noah’s gonna be a beast on the boards and play solid D. The Clippers would get a starting PG in Hinrich, and a backup to Blake Griffin in Tyrus Thomas.

Imagine a lineup of

PG Kirk Hinrich/Mike Taylor
SG Eric Gordon/ Ricky Davis/Fred Jones
SF Al Thornton/Steve Novak
PF Blake Griffin/Tyrus Thomas
C Marcus Camby/DeAndre Jordan

That’s a very deep extremely balanced and athletic roster right there. A great mix of vets and young players, and offense and defense for the Clippers.

No way Birdman leaves Denver.

Did you see the halftime piece about how he has connections there from his drug rehab?

How about a sign and trade like this Ty Thomas and Ben Gordon for Nate, Lee and Q Rich.

I think the reason alot of us are so high on Jrue Holiday is his basketball IQ. It’s extremely high for an 18 yr old especially. Defensively and athletically I think he’s above average. Probably WAY above average defensively. He’s shown he might have Rondo-like potential on D.

The first half of the season he looked like he was an above average shooter. He tailed off toward the end of the season, but he had a great stroke in high school and the first half of last season, so it doesn’t look like it’s a concern.

Chris Duhon is 6’1 and a poor/average shooter at best. This kid looks like he’s about 6’4 and will be able to guard both backcourt spots. He’s also alot more athletic than Duhon and more aggressive. He’s got a better shot already.

Darko Milicic or Marcus Camby. If Gallinari’s healthy, I’d trade Al Harrington for either one of them.

This is just wishful thinking as a Knick fan… Lee would be the only piece the Bulls may want.. Not looking to take Robinson and Q

No I didn’t but that was a point that crossed my mind. A change of scenery might unhinge the anti-drug habits he’d developed there.

Still, I pessimistically (or optimistically depending on how you see it) believe that most men have their price and can be bought.

Hes not that athletic if Duhon was 6′ 4″ they have the same athleticism, Duhons a solid shooter I guess that would be poor to average Holiday is not a great shooter I would say hes also solid. More aggressive ? I guess you mean on defense I could see that. I wasn’t necessarily comparing him to Chris Duhon but I was saying they have the same skill set.

No way Harrington for Milicic. Harrington is a 20 ppg player. Milicic is a bench player. I would deal Q Rich for him. Q Rich is a more productive player than Darko. If the Grizz take Thabeet, then Milicic is lost on that team. Hell, he is already pretty much lost.

Also, if ZBo could net Hinrich and Ty Thomas, they’d be Knicks. I agree that Jordan might not be easy to get, but it is not a lock that ZBo gets dealt unless it is for a contract that is either longer or just as long as his.

I agree, the pick is a bit too big of a cherry on top for the Grizz. I was more commenting what we would do with the 27th pick than anything. Pieces here and there, or involving a 3rd team could get us that pick though.

As for Milicic, I think him being 24 is a moot point for Memphis. It’s quite apparent that he is not working for their system, especially at 7mil/yr.

hey I can dream but realistically I Am bad at making up trades but I could see Donnie trying to get Ty Thomas.

I think Gordon is a UFA. A S&T wouldn’t involve him. But I’d like him on our team for a decent price, especially if we lose Nate and get a defensive specialist in the backcourt ala Jrue or Raja.

I agree on Harrington. I think Harrington might be our most valuable chip we’d be willing to trade. He could get us a 2010 first round pick from a playoff team making a push if we use him right. Rockets are a candidate.

Id try Harrington for Camby and Jordan..

If you really want to develop Chandler and Gallo you need to get Al out of the way. He hogs the ball way to much and takes stupid shots. I’m still pissed about those hanging on the rim BS he did TWICE.

I’m tired of seeing a PF as our C. I want a CENTER! to play CENTER!!!!!

Harrington for Camby is different than Harrington for Milicic.

Harrington for Camby is a fair deal for both sides. I am not sure if the Clippers want Al Harrington though.

If I could put one player on my wish list for this off-season, it might be JR Smith. That’s saying a lot.

If Denver looks at lee, then I would almost consider trading him for Smith straight up. He’s a headcase, but he is incredibly talented. He is not a taller Nate Robinson. He plays under more control.

Seriously, Denver sought Lee hard this season and last. If he gets more than the Knicks are willing to pay, then Smith and a future 1st would be a very nice haul. Smith is only 23 and can be a scoring machine if he gets the minutes. He is a 20 ppg scorer that defends if he is a starting 2 guard and a 1st or 2nd option.

I got love for Al Harrington Chris and he’s our best player but you won’t get Darko Milicic with Quentin Richardson! I understand your point but something’s got to give – anyways (like you said) we can get more for him.

We need Al Harrington that’s why I said IF GALLINARI’S HEALTHY – because he could be the first option next year.

Yea I have JR on my realistic Wish List this offseason along with Ty Thomas, Brandon Jennings, and Ty Evans.

Q should be enough to get him. The Grizzlies lack a true backup SF. Q Rich is a better player than Darko. The Grizz barely use Darko. They both have expiring deals. If the Grizz get Thabeet or Chandler / Kaman, then Darko becomes even more expendable.

Q averaged 10 ppg last season, and let’s face it, he was not that bad. Two seasons ago, Q was atrocious. But remember when Q Rich stepped up big-time when the roster was in a major state of flux in December? 34 points and 12 rebounds against the Wizards in late November last year… remember that game? Darko is not even capable of having that type of game. His only asset to the Knicks would be his length and his ability to block shots.

Q Rich can provide the leadership that the young Grizzlies team needs while actually filling a hole that they have. Q Rich could arguably mean more for them then Milicic would for us.

I dont think that shotblocking is such a major issue for the Knicks. Isiah Thomas was right when he used to say that it is an overrated stat. It does matter in the playoffs when you’re playing Lebron James, but otherwise it’s not very helpful. Well it did not help GS much this year to be first in that category.

I think that having a real post scoring threat is WAY more critical for next year’s Knicks. Last year we had none (well with Jeffries at the 5 and Lee at the 4 …) and I think we became a more and more predictible team along the season because of that. We relied on outside shooting and other teams had only to watch out for it.

Then I view Eddy Curry’s fitness as a much more important issue than signing a shotblocker. I mean, this guy was able to score 20 ppg three years ago … Or find a way to overhaul the roster to get an offensive threat at the 4 and then, a shotblocker.

Tommy, pleeaaase, get us some news on Eddy !!

Knicks offensive tools this season :

- outside shooting : A (Robinson, Harrington, Chandler, Hughes, Gallo)

- Penetration : C (Robinson, Chandler)

- Post scoring : D

- Pick and Roll : E

We were like a NFL team that never runs !

Trade Jared Jeffries back to the Wizards for expiring contract of Brandon Haywood a good shotblocker. Add to the trade, O. Pecherov if Coach Mike is interested in a 7 foot outside shooter.

We were a great pick and roll team. Duhon and Lee were one of the best pick and roll tandems in the league, and Lee is a good post scorer he’s very slick and can put it in with both hands from multiple spots in the lane. He may not be a great post up player, but we don’t really play half court basketball that much.

Whoever’s tired of seeing a PF at center, you better get used to it. This was something i understood when we brought in D’Antoni. It would be GREAT to have a guy playing the 5 with defensive prowess and the ability to block/alter shots, but that will never be a priority. Our big man needs to be agile and offensively capable. D’Antoni first wants someone who can work as the 5 in our system on offense (like Amare), and then hopefully who can also play good defense (Bosh sounds ideal.) We are never going to play a true center, who just lumbers around blocking shots and taking up space.

Lee was a good ‘Center’ for us. He’s a great rebounder, great at finishing in transition, and a great pick and roll player with a High IQ. He had a great season and although his defense was suspect, that is likely more a product of the system and instructions he is given than the fact that he can’t play defense. If we had made the playoffs we would be looking at lee’s year as extremely successful, even if he did nothing differently.

The problem is that on defense he is undersized, so if we do get someone to slide Lee to the four (on defense) he has to have a jumpshot… there’s no way around that. Lee and Camby are interchangeable, not combinable (not a word).

I absolutely love Jamison. he is one of those rare big men who has a great shot from all around. It really helps our system to have big men with great shots, because it leaves room for, another big man who might specialize in something else other than shooting. He’s going to be making like 13 mil, so if we could somehow get rid of Jeffries i would do that in a second.

Curry
Chandler
Galo
Jamison
Bosh

unfortunately no team sounds complete, or good enough to win a championship, without LeBron or Wade.

Curry
Chandler
Galo
LeBron
Jamison

That would be DIRRTY.

sorry for the long post

That is why, even though i like Lee alot, i think he is completely expendable. We are going to need a bigger, better guy to play that spot, and lee can’t play the four in this system.

Oh and i know that last lineup might be too small, but i really think Galo needs to end up defending power forwards. he’s 6’11. He probably hasn’t even grown into his body yet which is why he seems so flimsy and fragile. When he beefs up a little, theres no reason to say his body type will be any different than Dirks. He is not nearly quick enough, nor will he ever be, to guard small forwards in this league, but he definitely can become big enough to guard 4′s.

That’s why, when i make dream 2011 lineups, i like to put him at the 4. (Part of my dream).

Mucha i know you disagree and say that DW wants him to be a ‘larry bird type player,’ but i don’t know how much you can analyze one little quote like that.

Yeah but he has a bad back, playing against Kenyon Martin would be suicidal. Maybe his body will be like Dirk’s in a couple of years, but right now he’s more like Hedo Turkoglu and he’ll not bulk up a lot in the near future. The fragility of his back reinforces the fact that he’s more of a shooting forward.

Obviously you like Jamison but your James-Gallinari-Jamison frontcourt is ridiculous in my opinion. These guys would get murdered everynight. Jamison is 33 years old anyways, I mean why do you want a 33 years old finesse power forward to be your center??? He’d be a pancake in your scenario.

How do the Knicks not need a defensive presence? I can care less about what Isiah Thomas says about blocks, when the opposition drives to the basket at will, you have a huge problem. Watch the Magic play and tell me that Dwight Howard’s presence is overrated in the paint.

The stat itself might be overrated, but the presence of a shot-blocker is not.

YES….WE DO NEED A SHOT BLOCKER!!!!

I want Camby, but if we can’t get Camby we need to draft Thabeet if he falls to the 8th pick. 4.2 blocked shots per game in 2008/2009!!!!!

Then we should buy a late 1st round/early 2nd round pick and get a pass 1st point guard like Ty Lawson or Darren Collison or Eric Maynor…or if they are not available take a chance on Jodie Meeks at SG…BUT AGAIN…the most important thing we need is a CENTER…we should have drafted brooke Lopez last year which would have solved a few problems.

There are TONS of guards in this years draft…most of which could do what Duhon did last year…

I say drafting Thabeet would bring 10 more wins our way. Last year we were top five in Offensive ppg and in the bottom 5 in opponents ppg. If we can lower the defensive ppg it will be huge for our win/loss ratio. Winning games comes down to defensive execution in the last 5 minutes(mostly in the 1/2 court)..those that get stops win the game…those that don’t lose. Kobe, Lebron, D Wade and Carmelo all came into the league as scorers…but to go to the next level they all needed to learn how to play defense in order to win games, not just be the high scorer.

I’d rather have Duhon as the starting PG again then to have Lee as our starting Center again. Which would you rather?

I never said that the Knicks dont need a shotblocker.

I said that having a post presence on the offensive end was much more important.

at Jeff : Duhon and Lee being one of the best pick and roll duo ? I dont believe so. The base to have one is a big man that can jump shoot from distance. Lee cant do that.
The last duo we had was Marbury & K Thomas. They couldn’t stand each other but executed the pick and roll perfectly.

Of course we need a shot blocker, or someone who consistently alters shots. My point was that we are not going to go out looking for a player who does that and only that. For example… we would NEVER draft thabeet, in my opinion. MD would much rather have david lee than, lets say, Samuel D. Shotblocking needs to be a plus, added onto whatever else they do that actually helps the system.

Every player we get should have a defensive mentality, and every big man should hopefully be able to contest shots, but we are not going to try to land a big guy to play center just because he’s a presence on defense, a la tyson chandler, sammy D, Thabeet, Ratliff.. etc…

And even if we do get a guy like that, it is only a temporary solution. We would still take.

Drafting thabeet might add some wins to our current win/loss total, but it doesn’t help us get any closer to the team we are trying to create in the long run. Lumbering big man are an absolute NO in this system, in my opinion.

Somebody who has NO HANDS at all on offense, just doesn’t belong on this team. I would keep Lee of T. chandler every day of the week.

Just trade the whole squad for Anthony Randolph. That guy is paranoid, he believes that a blocked shot will save his life. He’s such a special player anyways.

Donnie Walsh loves him, Chris Mullin loves him and he had a cloudy relationship with Don Nelson earlier in the season. I know they have no reason to trade him but maybe the 8th pick (plus Wilson Chandler?) will make them think twice.

At last ! I expected that to come sooner from you Mucha !!

Over* t chandler

Yea i LOVE randolph…. he could become such a versatile, special player for us… like a better version of Marion.

If he’s available then let’s do it.

@Chris,
You state that GS was the best shotblocking team with over 6 per game. The also happened to be the worst defense in the league. You also stated that the Heat had the worst record but averaged over 4bpg, well over what the Knicks averaged.

Shotblocking is not a good indicator of team D. The ability of a team to contest shots, surrender no easy baskets is not a stat you will find in any standard boxscore.

I agree that we need a shotblocker, but we’d be fooling ourselves if we thought that would cure all of our defensive woes; remember we were next to dead last in points allowed, only GS stunk it up worse than us. We need guys that will stay in front of their man, collapse in the paint and rotate quickly as a team on open shooters. Defense is 5 guys, not 1.

Haha. I thought about putting in Anthony Randolph for you Mucha.

I threw those two examples in there because I thought someone would mention them as a rebuttal to me.

Golden State was worse on the defensive end than the Knicks. Fine. But look at other good defensive teams. Do they let teams drive to the hoop at will? The Knicks averaged 105 ppg last year. They need a defensive presence in the center more than they need a post scorer.

Watch Denver and Orlando play. Watch how Howard and Andersen change the game defensively.

crag- You’re right. Defense is about 5 guys, not one. But as with a PG on offense, a defensive unit needs a leader. It needs a quarterback, a backbone. Even if the guy Donnie finds stays on the defensive end all game, DW has to find that guy. If Thabeet falls to 8, I still believe that Walsh will take a look. Call me crazy, but I just get that feeling.

Chris, when you say “Watch Orlando and Denver play” you’re (intentionnally ?) misguiding.

Orlando is giving a hard time to Cleveland almost only because they have a great inside/outside offensive game. They scored an average of 100 ppg+ in the first three games, when Detroit and Atlanta scored less than 80 ppg ! Cleveland’s offensive production has remained the same.

If Orlando wins the series, it will be thanks to their offensive production.

Jeff…I really don’t know what’s in MD’s head, but I know we need defense…the quickest way to improve on defense is to add a shot blocker to protect the rim and contest “easy” baskets. How many times did a guard penetrate into the lane and finish at the rim with little or no effort…ESPECIALLY in the last 5 minutes of the game…which is ALWAYS a 1/2 court affair.

David Lee – 22 blocks
Kendrick perkins – 150 blocks
Pau Gasol – 81 blocks
Nene – 101 blocks

Now THIS (Lee) is the LAST line of defense you want in front of the rim with 30 seconds left in a tie ball game…OR with us up by 1 point.

How many games did we lose last season at the buzzer…our point differential last year was only -2.61

So what is that… 3 points.
2 blocks = 4 points

Thabeet averaged 4.2 blocks per game

We can talk offense all you want…PG this and shooting percentage that…but we HAVE to get a center that can block…alter…and deflect some shots or we will have the same receord next year as this year…If it’s not Camby and THABEET is there at 8…not at the 1st pick…but pick number 8…we should grap him in a heartbeat.

You want a PG…how about

Jason Kidd – 1 year rental
Andre Miller – 1 year rental

Trade for:

Steve Nash
Ramon Sessions
Jarrett Jack

Any of these players would solve our problem of depth at the pg position either in front of or behind duhon.

But there is no free agent or potential draft pick which has the shot blocking ability Thabeet has. Not everyone on you team needs to be able to shoot a 3 pointer.

Hahaha, yeah I know. He’s ba-aack!

Baron Davis says hello.

What about Shaq? Not really a Blocking monster but he does clog the lanes and alter almost every layup that comes his way.

Hey guys I am glad to see people have picked up on how I said I would like to knicks to trade for Darko in an older post, it makes sense for us on a lot of levels. His age is a major factor & while he cant score for some reason (in the systems he has been in) maybe MD can get in his head and maybe find a way to get him going in a more run and gun system. 24 7feet filled out body athletic guy who blocks shots is worth a shot as I have been saying!! The only way we get anything out of Eddy Curry in our system is if we get him a case of HGH lol so see about swapping them.

If not try this idea on for size…Lee, Nate & our 8th pick to the lakers who in turn send Bynum (have you seen how he just does not worked out for them the last 2 seasons) to the griz and there 2010 first rd pick to the knicks who also send Q & J.Jeffries to the griz but get there 27th pick as well as darko and Rubio.

After that use the picks to fill out the roster even look in to a trade with the clippers for deandre Jordan and whatever else we can get out of them foe EC that we have or some roster guys. With that done site back and wait another year and wait for “The Beast” A.K.A Amare Stoudemire to join our club (and with the cavs dang near swept by the magic maybe Lebron lol) championships here we come!!!

[...] the Darko for Richardson deal, which I recommended in my shot-blocking post on Tuesday, would be a great move for the Knicks.  Clearly the Knicks need a player that has the ability to [...]