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Sign and Trade Offers start July 9th

by Tommy Dee on June 28th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

Kudos to Hahn for adding clarity to the Lee and Nate situations:

“…The Knicks can entertain sign-and-trade discussions involving both Lee and Robinson on July 9, after the seven-day moratorium. There is expected to be a strong market for Lee, who led the NBA with 62 double-doubles, and there are teams with cap space that have an interest. The Pistons could attempt to sign him to an offer sheet if they do not go after Carlos Boozer and the Trail Blazers are also said to be in hot pursuit, but more likely in a sign-and-trade scenario.

For the Knicks to keep him, Lee and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, would likely have to agree to a back-loaded deal to protect the cap space in 2010. Walsh would also have to first find a way to move either Eddy Curry ($11.2 million against the cap in 2010-11) or Jared Jeffries ($6.8 million) off the roster to offset Lee’s contract, which could command up to $8 million per year or more. Consider the range of these comparables: Troy Murphy ($11 million), Andris Biedrins ($9 million) and Udonis Haslem ($7.1 million)…”

Andrew and I have come to the agreement that you’re looking at a 60% chance Lee is traded and a 40% chance they manage a sign and trade. There is no chance, we believe, that Lee signs an offer that Walsh won’t match meaning no team will push the Knicks into a situation where they have to pay him too much and risk getting nothing in return.

On another note,  I’ve had enough of the Jordan Hill is Channing Frye, Chris Wilcox or Mikki Moore nonsense that’s been going around. I’ve had Hill on top of the board for a reason. Let’s pretend, shall we, that Hill shaved his dreads and went to Wake Forest. College careers, in terms of team success, have nothing to do with a player’s ceiling. Did Tim Duncan ever make a Final Four?

Hill’s upside is off the charts, but more importantly, he has the organization’s trust that he’ll be able to come in and have and impact. Frye had to compete with Lee, and if memory serves, it was Isiah who thought he was too soft. So Isiah stuck with the scrappy Lee more because the fans loved him, (and Zeke needed all the cheers he could get) and Lee rewarded Zeke with solid play. And all the draft experts had no clue who Lee was coming out of Florida.  But that’s what archives are for.

In all honesty, Hill started playing as a junior in high school and he ran into a tough situation at Arizona in terms of there being a ton of distractions. The best piece of advice I received once came from the editor of a major sports magazine who told me “talent is great but potential is reached when it’s recognized and allowed to flourish by someone in management who believes in you.” I believe that Hill can flourish in D’Antoni’s system and he will be allowed to flourish.

Besides Blake Griffin, what big over the past few years has had the package of size, speed and athleticism that Hill possesses? Sure, the odds are that bigs chosen early become less productive than guards, just look at the history of the draft, but it’s tough to imagine that Hill won’t be a big part of the rotation next year.

Also, as always, thanks to all the callers and listeners who have quickly made TKB Radio one of the top 10 most popular sports shows on BTR. As you guys know, blogtalkradio has established itself as one of the driving forces in Internet radio.

  • joetheknick

    I believe that now is the time for DW to prove himself to be a top general manager. Lee could sign with the knicks and be a keeper or the Knicks can do a sign and trade to get our firswt star. If DW finds a trading partner who agrees we could wind up with trading for a 10 million dollar man like Granger or Okafur or Redd or Jefferson or Martin. This will be the first of the star pieces in the puzzle. Your thoughts

  • Donkeyote

    I get what your saying but Donnie Walsh has already proven himself. He got someone to take Z-Bo’s and Crawford’s contract. He got rid of Q. While it would be nice to get a superstar for the Knicks, Walsh has done what he intended to do on Day 1: Slash salary. As for the targets you have mentioned:

    1. Okafur might be tradable but I dont see Larry Brown helping the Knicks

    2. Granger just signed an extension with the Pacers – He’s going nowhere.

    3. Redd is a good player but at this point in his career not worth the risk.

    4. Jefferson + Manu + Parker + Timmy = Championship

    5. Martin is Sacramento’s star player who is coming off an injury plagued season. Plus Sacramento would want the world for him.

    We might be able to get other people to play here but its gonna be a hard sell this year…..we’ll see in 2010.

  • joetheknick

    I am not suggesting any of those players are either available or even desirable. What I am saying is doing a sign and trade of Lee for expiring contracts does nothing for the Knicks future.

  • Bart

    Hill’s game reminds me of Aldridge

  • bigknicka

    good call on the comparison…..I’m glad that Tommy finally said something about the negative comparisons Jordan is getting because if you look at his stats with 3 different coaches you could tell he’s gonna be a player thats gonna be in the league for awhile (he doesnt have to be a superstar tim duncan but something like trustworthy like a dale davis or young kevin garnett)

  • Cheech

    So, Tommy, do u think there is any chance DW brings back Lee???

    or is it a foregone conclusion???

    And i love jason kidd. but not at this point. I would take Nash over him 10 times out of 10. I really think Nash will be rejuvenated in NY with Dantoni….

  • Chris Alvino

    I think Donnie will try to bring back Lee. We all saw how well he can play on this team. He cannot defend, but perhaps he’ll improve with some help from Hill, Darko and Curry. If Walsh gets blown away by an offer, or if Lee commands close to 11 mm per year, then I think he will be gone.

    Aldridge might be a good comparison to Hill. Aldrige is not a star, but he is a fringe star. If Hill turns out to be that good, then great find by DW.

  • Cheech

    I really hope they bring back lee.
    besides the fact that i think he is worth it, Curry is very much a question mark. And even tho i think hill will play this year, and even tho i really like Darko, those 3 are not enough to form a front court. But with Lee, i think we have a strong front court. And i know that Harrinton plays the 4, but he doesnt rebound or play in the paint, so i dont count him.
    I really hope u are right Chris. And that DW will bring him back.

    Aldridge is a little soft in my opinion. And even tho he is a decent shot blocker. He plays away from the basket alot. I think hill will be a better rebounder and shot blocker. But not as good a shooter. This is just my opinion.

    Also, i agreed completely with ur post about Darko and all the things he does well. But i think he range on his jump shot should be stressed a little more. He can really stretch a defense and draw the oppising center out of the paint. He is a much better mid range shooter than Lee, and probably hill too. even tho i havent seen hill enough. Darko has a nice Ilgauskas like mid range set shot. I really think he will thrive with us and become a good rotation player.

  • Mucha

    I don’t see it.

    Hill is more aggressive.

  • renenyg1

    Bart I totally agree with you Aldridge and I’m thinking if Portland wants Lee ,I would like to keep Lee but if he’s asking to much I would do a sign and trade with Portland and throw in Nate for Aldridge and Rodriguez .To team Hill and Aldridge would be awesome and both would be so similiar in game too.Maybe Hill is better defensively right now.

  • Cheech

    I dont think they are so similar in game. But why would u want to have 2 guys so similar in the way they play. I would think that is a bad thing. And Rodriguez isnt on Portland anymore.

  • Mucha

    Jordan Hill could be a poor man’s Jermaine O’Neal (not as fluid and not as agile). I think that’s the best comparison.

  • Cheech

    I could agree with that.h

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    60-40 Lee stays….

  • Assistant DA

    Lee is a hardnosed and solid PF that deserves to be resigned by the Knicks. Knick fans will hate to see him fight for Olympic gold and a ring in another teams uniform. But, I suspect DW may do a sign and trade for him with Portland for Fernandez, Batum/Outlaw, and Frye. The Knicks need to continue to increase the talent level of the team to compete for Nash, Bosh, and LeBron in 2010.

    Rodriguez was traded to Sacramento before the draft.

  • italian stallion

    I agree 1000%.

    I think Hill gives us most of what Lee has to offer (primarily rebounding) plus tougher defensive presence and some shot blocking.

    On the offensive end, Lee is a very good finisher with either hand around the basket and a better free throw shooter. So he’s a more efficient scorer, but he’s not a high usage scorer, doesn’t score much unassisted, and typically disappears at the end of games because he can’t create a lot for himself. Hill already probably has a better mid range game, seems more athletic, and has more offensive upside. In the end, it would not shock me if Hill develops into the version of Lee we have all been hoping that Lee developed into.

  • joetheknick

    IMO most Knicks fans want Lee to remain on the team. He is a fan favorite. His fate will be determined by the market place. If some GM decides to give him an outlandish contract, it will probably force DW to let him go. We know what we have in Lee. We really only have hopes and prayers for Curry, Milicic and Hill. Got to hope some good comes out of the recession.

  • Mucha

    It’s simple : Under $7.5-$8 million per year Lee’s a keeper.

  • italian stallion

    That’s right. It’s not about Lee or what he brings to the table etc… It’s about how much he is worth and making sure we do not overpay for him. That’s the kind of thing Isiah did and it got us into this mess to begin with.

  • joetheknick

    I am hoping Lee will take 7.5 to start with a back load toward the end of the contract to give his 45m over 5 years. We got to worry about some GM who offers Zach Randolph size contract instead of a David West size contract. We shall see.

  • Dan C

    Hill may well be a useful player for this team, certainly. Unfortunately, chances are he will not be. This is a guy who has no offensive game, and has no feel for the game of basketball. He’s not a basketball player at this point so much as a guy who has played basketball. And that’s one of the top guys on the Knick’s board? Really? That’s the best they could come up with? The ESPN writeup on him says it all IMO:

    “Hill has been a default Top 5 pick for the past few months. No one thinks he’s good enough to go that high, but when you look at who else is out there, he kind of floats to the top. His high-energy game and his terrific rebounding numbers have given NBA scouts hope. But the tournament really brought out his weaknesses, as well. Hill’s limited offensive repertoire, coupled with a pretty low basketball IQ, makes him a bigger reach than most top 5 picks.”

    So we’re playing 4-on-5 on offense unless this guy is open for a dunk? In an offensive system? We better pray that we never play a ton of grind-it-out games against the Celtics of the league, because they are going to run the kid ragged.

    Look, I really hope that he can improve. I’m a Knick fan after all, it’s in my team’s best interest if he does. I’ve just seen this backward logic way too much in both the NBA and the NFL, where guys who are pure athletes are drafted on the hope that they can learn the fine points of playing a sport. The highest level of play is not where that happens. But I hope I’m wrong.

  • bob go knicks

    LEE is another guy (like chandler and harrington)whos stats got better because of the situation they were in last year.just naming those 2 guys ,they couldnt put up the points and rebs that they put up here on a conventional team next year,NATE EITHER ”””””””CUT BAIT AND GET WHAT YOU CAN