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Update: July 2- 8:45:
Via Berger:
“… League sources indicated early Thursday that the Raptors also were contemplating an offer to restricted free agent David Lee. Any offer to Lee, by definition, would be in the $8-$10 million range so it would test the Knicks‘ threshold for matching. And Lee’s list of potential suitors shrank by one Wednesday when Memphis traded Quentin Richardson to the Clippers for power forward Zach Randolph…”
I think the only team with a shot, and it’s a small one, is the Blazers, but not if they land Turkoglu. It’s looking more and more that Lee will return to NY, but Walsh has to be exploring serious trade scenarios first.
Meanwhile, Doug Smith up in Toronto said the Raptors didn’t have the bread to offer Charlie V and have turned their attention to Linas Kleiza, so how exactly are they going after Lee? You’d figure that Villanueva, who received $7 million per, has set the market for the big men. Lee should demand more, but it shouldn’t be coming from up north, unless Chris Bosh is in play.
Smith now has heard the Rapts are in play…
“…Capping a whirlwind 24 hours to open the negotiating period, league sources say Toronto is trying to obtain David Lee, an energetic rebounder who is a New York Knicks restricted free agent.############################################
The sources couldn’t say whether the move on Lee would be a straight offer or whether it would be a sign-and-trade transaction with any of Toronto’s current free agents.
Lee’s name is added to a list that began with Charlie Villanueva – who ultimately signed a five-year, $40 million deal with the Detroit Pistons – and Denver’s Linas Kleiza, a solid if unspectacular part not in the class of Lee.
There is no suggestion anything is imminent, but the attempts to try to get something done with Lee back suggestions before the free-agent period began that Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo was trying to be creative in improving his roster…”
Update 7:10:
Check this out…Again, not buying this one…
“…This morning there were rumors that Lee was close to a deal with the Memphis Grizzlies, but a source close to Lee told HOOPSWORLD that rumor was far from true. The Grizzlies haven’t put a number on the table yet, and the rumor that the Knicks were even in the right ball park with a four-year $34 million offer are completely off base. Not even the other number being tossed around – five years and $50 million – will get you into a serious discussion with David Lee. In fact, our source told us, Lee’s camp is looking for five years and $60-$65 million before they’re willing to have a serious discussion…”
############################################
I was listening to Ric Bucher on with BT this morning when he said that Chris Wallace wanted to make a serious offer to Lee, but Grizzlies’ owner Michael Heisley apparently has Knicks’d nixed it.
Throw in the fact that the Thunder are hot for Paul Millsap, and you have to wonder where the money is coming from.
############################################
Courtesy of Adrian Wojnarowski:
“…Several league executives say that the Memphis Grizzlies are preparing a $40-50 million offer for New York Knicks restricted free agent David Lee(notes) . “There’s a great deal of interest in him, and a lot of teams are trying to be very creative,” his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said Wednesday morning…”
By the way, on a side note, kudos to my boy Zags for breaking the Lance-to-Cincy story-the end of one of the most bizarre recruiting efforts ever.
That’s right, SNY broke it….congrats Zags, bloggerists rule.
Who could we try and get from Memphis in a S&T?
nobody. looks as though lee’s days with the knicks are numbered
O.J. Mayo?
$10M is wayy too much for David Lee.
The only pieces that interest me are Gay and Conley and I can’t see either being given up for Lee.
A first round pick?
Seems like he would be a great pick up for them Conley, Mayo, Gay, Lee, Gasol is a great young starting 5 with Thabeet coming off the bench for 20mpg
We will most likely match any offer that is made to Lee, even if we don’t intend on keeping him for the long run at that price. Donnie knows better than to let the kid walk for nothing. He is a great asset and is value is very high right now, so there’s no way we let him walk.
If someone offers him something like 9 mil, we will probably match it, and then look to trade him. We are either keeping him, or trading him, there is no way we let him walk for nothing.
And i think i have a good general rule for the summer:
Trades only… No free agents; unless we’re talking a cheap bluechip talent.
Whatever we need, we can find it with Nate and Lee and Mobley and even harrington and Duhon (depending on who we are getting back.) No reason to add anything more to our total salaries for next year.
Jeff
You take the enormous chance of then not being able to trade him at 9 mill per sesason….Memphis may want to only sign him as a free agent and actually have to give anything back in a sign and trade…..It is not liek a sign and trade is an easy thing to agree to….the other team has to reallly want him
“and NOT actually have to give something back”
sorry
My wishful thought for today:
The reason Memphis (or any team in this situation) would be willing to do a sign and trade is to preserve cap room. It would suck for Memphis if signing Lee to a big contract were to impede them from being able to sign other young talent when the time comes.
They’d be over-paying for David Lee if thats true. David Lee is a solid power forward but people have to realize that D’Antoni’s system probably padded his stats a little as well.
Maybe we could trade for a Javarris Crittenton in some sort of deal and hope to develop him into more of what was expected, he’s still young. Him alone isn’t close to even with Lee in value though.
Crittenton is in Washington
My fault i’m just trying to think of Memphis’ roster. They obviously have Mayo Conley Gay and Gasol as they’re core (not including Thabeet), and of those the one that stands out equal in value with Lee the closest (to me) is Conley, who hasn’t been given up on but hasn’t lived up to expectations.
Bucher said the Memphis owner vetoed the plan
gotta check this out.. pure Genius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I
I want to set the record straight. When you let a player walk for nothing you are not always actually letting him walk for “nothing”.
Let’s say we offer Lee 8M.
Let’s say someone else offers Lee 10M, we don’t match it, and he walks.
We don’t have Lee and we don’t have a replacement player, but we have 8M or 10M less on our cap than we would have had if we signed Lee. So we can eventually use that 8M-10M towards signing someone else and perhaps create better value for ourselves.
There are always specifics and timing issues involved, but the absolute worst thing an organization can do over the long is to overpay a player just to prevent him from walking. You either work out a sign or trade or let him walk and then work towards signing someone else when you are eventually much further under the cap than you would have been.
In other words, if Lee walks, perhaps that will give us the room to sign Bosh AND someone next year else instead of just BOSH. If that someone else is better than Lee, we hit a homerun by letting him walk.
Stallion
I think what at least I was reffering to when I would say walk for nothing is that D-Walsh has had the opportunity to trade him in the past but has balked at deals he did not think were strong enough, not the time has arrived when Lee could leave for absolutley nothing…
I agree with you Joey because I would take an opportunity to get someone good in return for Lee also. First of all, I don’t see a point in getting Bosh when we just used an important lottery pick on a PF in Hill. They have high hopes for him and getting Bosh would just be redundant. Also, we have no actual garuntee that we will get any of the free agents we want in 2010, and if nobody ends up coming, then we let Lee walk and then it would be a mistake. Plus, right now, we can afford to sign and trade Lee. We could go without that 8 or so million for next year. We could still get Lebron and another player, and plus, if we sign and trade Lee, we would get a good player this year, which leaves us with 1 less player that we need. I would make Rubio priority 1 right now if I was Walsh, because he is the best PG opportunity we have. If Rubio is the 1 player we come out of summer with, I would be VERY happy.
Guys,
The point is not necessarily who we get, when they get them, or how we get them. It’s that if Lee walks we are capable of getting someone else, but if we sign him we are not because he would add a lot to the cap.
Yea, screw signing him. We should trade him though, but I agree that we could at least get assets for him THIS YEAR.
Can you sign and trade a FA for draft picks? Say Lee’s starting salary is $8M, then could we swap him in a S&T for Demarre Carroll and Sam Young? Both guys are 4-year seniors that will not need as much time to get contributing. Carroll is excellent in transition as a PF/SF type, can defend and rebound, a big part of Missouri’s success this year. Young is a very strong, athletic 6′6″ wing, can defend and shoot.
If the offer sheet team has the salary cap room to absorb the added payroll then you can deal draft picks or rights to players and not match salary.
Mem has room under the cap to absorb the Lee contract which is why they are being aggressive in the market.
I gotta say one thing.
If Lee and his agent talk Memphis into writing a 10 mil per year offer just as a way to raise the price for us I’ll not let this go with Lee.
My reason is LAST YEAR we had an opportunity to trade Lee for the 5th overall pick to Memphis and Lee balked saying he would not sigh there long term
NOW he is going to sign a LT offer sheet with Memphis????
That is just bull sh!t.
I say DW keeps his long term memory, remembers the vetoed trade last year , pulls his offer and works a S&T with Memphis.
Just get a number one unprotected next year and a future protected number one and let them eat the salary.
Use the number ones and some pieces to get Ricky from Minny. Eat some salary and then work hard on getting TMac from Houston for EC and Mobley.
Well said BiggieSmalls…that’s exactly what I was thinking…on the Memphis thing with Lee and the Tmac/Eddy Curry thing…EVEN the draft pick to Minny for Rubio (maybe not 2 1st rounders)…THAT would be a perfect scenario…seeing as though we could have Kevin Love..OR OJ Mayo in last years draft…c’mon David LEE
I agree on this Memphis deal smelling really bad if Lee goes there now, when he supposedly refused last year when we could have the pick than potentially landed Mayo.
Hmmm… not a bad scenario. David Lee is the most overrated overinflated and soon to be overpaid player in the NBA. I never heard of an NBA POWER forward (a position tailor made for a bruiser) with no clue on defense, no EFFORT on defense, so SOFT on defense (people come into the lane and see David Lee and think THREE POINT PLAY!!!) get so many high praises and accolades. New York fans should be ashamed of themselves for pining over this dude. I remember when the season started last year they were saying Mr. Lee was hurt, something about his ankle, he’s playing thru the pain blah blah blah. After the season there’s no surgery? GTFOH! Meanwhile, Wilson “Ill Will” Chandler is blocking shots making an effort on defense and hustling all year and HE’S the one who needs surgery at the end of the season on his ankle.
Block a shot next year David. Maybe you can raise your average to .5 next year!!! Could u imagine if he blocked a shot a game? Or actually TRIED on defense, even if it’s just a hard foul or intimidator, a charge here or there? (sacrifice your body David.) What would he be worth then? 15 mil a year?!!! GTFOH! Good luck David “_avi_” Lee (aka No D) LOL I made a funny! “_avi_ Lee” hahaha I crack myself up.
Very well said…But Lee is not breaking any rules by signing a long term offer sheet…It is just a scumbag move…and The Sign and Trade might not even work out
No no rules broken
But total scumbag move to even talk to Memphis after he totally gave them the Heisman last year
Much less sign on for 50 mil
If Lee signs with Memphis. I will have a serious problem with him I mean we could of got Kevin Love with that pick right? Love blocks shots and can shoot…COME ON.
gee whiz!maybe you could go to D.LEE’S house ,ring his doorbell and run!
Thats the realist thing I’ve seen written about Lee… Tommy, Hahn, and BT have praised this man as being all about team, sacraficing, giving us a home town discount, and loving New York so much… And not one of them has even waivered with this new revelation… All the while disrespecting Nate… And you know what, Lee has every right to seek the highest contract but they did him a disjustice by painting him out to be so selfless… So now as fans we feel slighted… We need to get something in return for Lee, which amounts to more than Sam Young… Even with OKC we could get Mullens and Thabo…
ya know,D.LEE has a lotta holes in his game ,but ya gotta give it to him.he busted his ballz out there every night,and theres not a lot of players you can say that about
Biggie, I agree with you 100%. I absolutely would LOVE trading Lee and possibly getting a first rounder, and maybe a player and trading them for Rubio. I would be fine with not having D lee or a first rounder next year if it means we can get Rubio AND keep Jordan Hill. If they were to use your idea and obtain Rubio, They could then just sit tight until 2010. Also, I think that we would def get the 8th seed with Rubio.
What’s the deal with Shawn MArion? WHat if we could get him? Any thoughts on that or his whereabouts?
at least get travis outlaw or linas kleiza back…whatever just dont give up on the best double double man in the league
TEN million a yaer for 4 or 5 years?!! Good Riddance. See ya when I see ya!! Peace Out! Bon Voyage!! Holla back! Hasta la vista baby!
Da plane boss, da plane!
It sounds like Memphis and OKC are the big players in the Power Forward Market.
And D Lee and Paul Milsap are the most sought after. Brousard on ESPN said OKC will be makign a 10 plus mil offer to Milsap.
If I was OKC or Memphis I would put the same sheet out to Lee and Milsap and say the first one who takes it gets it.
the KNICKS are depressing.constantly missing out on player after player.we miss out on STEPHEN CURRY and then RICKY RUBIO then they try to appease us by making an offer to a washed up JASON KIDD.NOW we will prolly lose DAVID LEE for nothing.i have come to realize that it doesnt matter who runs this team ,we always seem to be coming up short.has anyone thought that maybe DONNIE WALSH has gotten too old to do this job?im begining to think you cant have one foot in 2010,and build a team for today,we are just gonna end up in same place. LOTTERY!
by missing out do you mean not winning the lottery or winning to many games last year. RUBIO and CURRY were both gone at 8. if attempted trades fail you cant count that as missing out like the knicks had these guys locked up. in that thinking we must have missed out on derrick rose, greg oden, kevin durant, dwight howard, lebron james, dwayne wade, carmelo anthony and every other top pick taken before the knicks opportunity to draft. damn, this knicks organization is really depressing, i mean if we only traded for the 1, 3, 4 picks in 2003, and the 1 in 04, then we could have a lineup of wade, melo, lebron, lee, howard….such an awful organization, how could they miss these players?
by overating the players that the wizards or t-wolves might have wanted in a trade.lets face it ,there is not one player on the knicks entire roster thats worth holding back on (maybe gallo).i wouldve given up the starting 5 for rubio
but would they have taken the starting 5 for rubio….lets face it the knicks don’t have much valuable trade bait. All i’m saying is you cant fault the management for not getting someone that they never had a realistic chance at getting. if the wolves offered a deal with rubio to the knicks or curry falls to 8 and they dont take him then you have an argument.
AMEN JR.
bob go knicks, doesnt seem to grasp this concept.
every post by him is pretty the same exact thing.
i usually just skip them.
If Lee leaves via free agency without us receiving any sort of compensation, that is really going to stink.
Donnie better get something, combined with the 5th pick debacle I think it’s time to really analyze the kind of job Donnie is really doing.
Maybe, its just the frustration talking, but I would lose a lot of respect for Walsh if it goes down bad for Knicks
I agree, some of his moves have been good (Zach Randloph and Crawford) but now look at those moves in the present…Zach could have been traded to Memphis but the Clipps dumb owner balked at the deal, and Crawford has been traded yet again to Atlanta…
When Donny initlaly made those deals I was like how the hell did he get rid of those two salaries….not I think I might have underestiamted their value to others organizations because it seems that their current two teams have and could have traded them also to other teams…
So other than those two moves what has Donny done….sign D’Antonio but vastly overpaying for him…hes a great coach and will help bring players but thats it..
I think we as Knicks fans are just finally relieved that we have a GM that is making sensible moves rather than the absurd and crazy moves we were used to from Isiah…But we tend to overvalue Donny’s common sense becuase it has lacked for such a long time in this organization…If you want to say Donny has be OK then fine…but has done anything that any other GM couldnt have done other than Isiah…I really dont think so
FYI, one whole year has passed on those Jamal and Zach contracts.
Thats a whole lot of money.
On another note, I dont care what anyone says… I know one thing Donnie is completely dedicated to turn this team around… He is relentless, HAVE YOU SEEN THE SUMMER LEAGUE SQUAD…. yes I wrote that in caps… They are searching under every rock to find NBA talent, wow… Hopefully we dont make another mistake this year and pick a Roberson… But they are holding workouts, damn near for this most talented bust that may have been overlooked or coached wrong… Not a bad idea… I’m pulling for Morris Almond
what ,is DONNIE WALSH yer dad? after all the hoop-la for a year ,the only thing we have to show for it is AL HARRINGTON and LARRY HUGHS. we have pretty much missed out on every player we have targeted .STEPH CURRY,RICKY RUBIO we blew getting the 5th pick,now we are supposed to be happy going after a washed up JASON KIDD? i mean kid,do you really expect to find a GEM out of a summer league squad? start taking reality pills,cuz now we are gonna lose DAVID LEE and get nothing in return.maybe DONNIE WALSH is getting to old for this job
Um, you forget that Walsh shed two HUGE contracts, and now is giving us a legit chance of signing MVP Lebron James in 2010, or at least an all-star like Joe Johnson or Amare. Sure we may have gotten worse, but lets face it, Crawford and Randolph weren’t taking us anywhere anyway. We also have become a much more mature and professional franchise with Walsh and Dantoni being the faces of it.
Hey bob go knicks,
Any knicks fan with a brain knows that al harrington and hughes are rentals.
We are notbuying them. If we could’ve traded Zach and Jamal for nothing we wouldve. but you need to take back players.
Take a chill pill, buddy.
ya cantput all yer eggs in the 2010 basket.LBJ stays in cleve,WADEstays in miami,we dont get BOSH,then what?we put rebiulding on hold for 3 years and we have nothin to show for it.you build the team as you go you can forfiet 2 whole seasons of hoops.thats ripping off the fans who pay good money to go to the games
Bob it’s that same retarded logic that led the team to where it’s been the past decade. Trading our expiring contracts and draft picks every year for overrated, overpriced, past their prime players with even bigger contracts led to teams with losing records and ridiculous payrolls. Isiah claimed you can’t rebuild in NY….well isn’t rebuilding and losing games with hope on the horizon better than losing games with no hope at all.
People have short term memories, it’s an instant gratification country but trading Zach and Craw for all that cap space is such a huge move even if we don’t get Lebron. The cap space gives us options, something this team didn;t have before, options for other FA’s and options in trades since the team has cap room.
This team doesn’t need anymore mediocre players, they need the flexibility to get stars….Bob Go you can’t seriously think that any New York Team with a boatload of cash will strike out in free agency? Then you’re not really a New Yorker, you don’t understand the city’s pull and magnetism.
Overall I can forgive Donnie for not getting Rubio, not getting Curry, because at the end of the day because of the cap space he created the team will still have options.
Cap Space = Options = Opportunity
The fact is, is that we HAD to overpay for D’Antoni…
For you guys who might me Mets fans too. It’s exactly the same thing that happened with Pedro Martinez. We needed that one guy to help attract other players. Which likely ends in overpaying since not everyone wanted to play for the Mets at that time and no one for sure wanted to play for the Knicks after zeke.
wrong EDHAN …. in baseball u can overpay if u have money .,.. alla the yankees…. we have a salary cap .. and must use our assets wisely
Hey gilcher82,
Can you explain to me how D’antonis contract counts against our salary cap ?
Because it doesnt, genius.
Bwahahaha could people finally start seeing the truth out of this current administration? Donnie Walsh is not the Lakers GM Jerry West reincarnated. He deserves the same scrutiny all you NY fans gave everyone else who has come thru the door.
Prove it to me! Make me a believer. Do something!!!
Dumping salary is good for the suits not the fans. I want to believe that they will get LeBron James but I won’t hold my breath and I don’t think anyone else should either. I’m pretty sure Wade ain’t coming. They’ll probably have to settle on a guy like Marvin Williams and hope he has his breakthrough playing here (sorta like Allan Houston did.) along with maybe Sttoudemire if he isn’t spoken for by then. But we’ll still need a point guard which is why we should have traded up this year in a point guard loaded draft.
I’m not convinced. Convince me!!!
Well, the last time the Knicks created cap space they rebuilt on the fly by signing Houston, LJ and Chris Childs, I think that team won 60 games the next year.
I’m sorry, how many playoff games have the Knicks won using the constant trading for bloated contracts method? oh,,,,zero….
I’m not a huge Donnie fan but the most important and valuable commodity a team can have is good cap flexibility and he created that when many thought this team could be turned around till 2014.
Even the Suns who always seem like they give away draft picks and assets have been succesful (didn’t make the playoffs but had a winning record last year). It’s because they never go into the luxury and always hover around the cap. This gives tham an inherent advantage when trading with team over the cap. Cap space for 2010 isn’t a complete failure if they Donnie doesn’t get Lebron, There are other FA’s and they can trade for any player without worrying about the rules that makemit difficult to trade players when over the cap.
EDHAN’s analogy does make sense, money was not as much of a factor for beltran, he took money off the mets contract and offered a lesser deal to the yankees because he wanted to play for a team that he’d have a chance at winning with. pedro was a big factor in beltran and delgado coming to the mets just like D’antoni seems to have brought buzz back to the knicks. suddenly people want to play here, thats no coincidence
Jr. Beltran would have went to the Yankess for less money…The Mets are the not the Knicks….The Mets, in terms of popularity are more like the Nets….The Knicks, with Dantoni or not are still one of the most desirable basketball teams to go to….I dont understand that analogy
I was going based off the fact that the mets were a 60 something win team compared to the knicks 23 or 32, no stars want to come to a team that is that bad. however the moves donnie and d’antoni have made so far suddenly people are talking about wanting to go to the knicks just like when the mets brought in pedro it had people talking about going to the mets.
Thanks JR…that’s what I was getting at
Obv the salary cap v. no salary cap is a factor…but the general idea is the same.
right .. as long as we dont overpay to an extent thats costs us a 2010 signing
oh wait … are we talking about dantoni?
im sorry i thought we were talking bout D LEE lol
Yea also all you people doubting Donnie have serious issues he turned that horrible Isiah team turned it into a team competing for the playoffs and getting under the cap…You guys are forgetting how good we could of been if Mobley didn’t retire.
KBT
So what we make the playoffs in the weak East,,,we are still a one round and done team…Didnt Isiah make the playoffs,,we still know that is not the goal here…and we all know…that our roster is temporary right now…Donny is putting all his eggs in one basket…And aside from Lebron, Bosh, or Wade,,who really from the free agent class in 10 excites you…That is why I am dissapointed for not
1. trading for the 5th pick in the draft…
2. Not trading David Lee when we could have gotton somthing for him..
3. Not trading Jefferies and Nate to Sac for expriing contracts
4. I like Gallo, but how good could have Eric Gordon have been in NY.
5. Drafting Hill but not a point guard..
Not I know there is still many more moves to come and we can get Rubio, or an asset for D-Lee and Nate Robinson in a sign trade, or our ultimate goal of signing Lebron..so it is still a wait and see..but right now things are looking less likely for all those pieces to fall into place
We did try to trade Lee but he didn’t want to..
We tried to get the 5th they didn’t want to go through with us…
At that point in time Nate was the heart of our team so doing that would of been stupid because we were competing for a spot.
I like Gallo more than Gordon so I am too biased on that one…
And we got a very good PG in Ghostface..
We are putting all of our eggs into one basket because I am 100% sure we can get 2 very good players at the very least Joe Johnson and Amare.
I see what your saying but Donnie said it from the beginning this is not a short term job it’s something that’s going to take time and what donnie has given this team is flexibility to be able to make things happen. also he has kept his promise to keep this team competitive in the short term. He’s not only looking for lebron I mean yes that’s the mail goal but he’s also trying to get young talent and a good structure to this team. so just be patient and trust for now at least I’m confident that whatever happens we are def in a better situation then we were in a year ago and hopefully a year from now we’ll be in a better situation then today.
YEAH mobley our savior ha ha ha ha ha
He is better than Roberson and Hughes…why don’t you think before you talk he would of made our team better.
Maybe if you used the sense you was born with you would of noticed we didn’t have a 2 guard..you are very irritating, especially since you don’t know anything.
O yea Isaiah really screwed up the Knicks! Take a look at the roster before he came:
http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/200203_New_York_Knickerbocker-56484-65.html
Not to mention the team was over the cap with that pathetic roster.
The Knicks being a disaster was caused by 55% Scott Layden then the rest by isaiah
I was really hoping OKC would come in with the offer, they got more to give.
The trade possibilities don’t look good with Memphis now that we already have Darko. With Memphis I would be happy with the rights to Juan Carlos Navarro and a future first rounder as of right now.
If we added Chandler could we get Gay and a future first rounder?
Circle Limit, you actually bring up a good point. Chandler and D Lee for Gay and a 1st rounder. We could then probably package the first round pick and either Gay/Hughes/Harrington/Duhon to get Rubio. I wouldnt mind giving up Lee and Chandler if it means getting Rubio. Gallinari is our SF anyway, and Hill can replace D Lee.
man no respect for Donnie from some of you if you don’t remember nobody wanted to be the GM of the knicks after isiah left because it was to much of a mission to change the knicks direction. Donnie came in and basically changed everything made us a lot more flexible money wise brought in a good coach and took that ghastly impression of the isiah era. I mean common At least appreciate what this guys doing. I’m not saying that losing D Lee for nothing wouldn’t hurt but can we trust Donnie to make the right call he really hasn’t done anything to hurt this organization in a major way. Also can you tell me for sure that rubio is going to be a star in this league because I’m high on him but he just as well could be a bust and as far as I’m hearing that situation can still be revisited so before you criticize can we at least wait to see what happens
THABEET LOL
FOR DAVID LEE
Guys take a second to think about what Circle Limit said up there about chandler and d lee for Gay and the first rounder. ^^^^^^^^^
If Donnie could get that done I would be very happy Gay is a great young piece and he would thrive in this system I think and the first rounder would be nice to since we have non next off season. Again this would be a very good trade for us but would memphis do it
Why not, they would be getting a replacement Gay in Chandler, who is younger anyway with all the potential to be better than Gay, and we know how much they want Lee. The point of the first rounder in my opinion would be to package in a trade for Rubio. the ‘Wolves would be much more willing to deal Rubio if they were getting another 1st round pick in next years draft.
Yeah I see where your coming from I Think the only thing is that Rudy I think is their go to scorer down the stretch but I guess Mayo can fill that role. Hey I would love it hopefully something like this goes down. Also yeah I agree the first rounder would entice minnasota more. I like this trade
I see what you’re saying about Gay being the guy, but Wilson to me has everything gay has. They are about the same size, and Wilson has a ton of potential. Wilson is also more of a true SF and has more of an ability to guard the 2, 3, or 4 on defense. He is also very athletic, never complains or does anything wrong, and will do what he is asked.
we gotta sign lee before we trade him
OK Up until now I was playing but now I am dead serious…work out a trade for Rip Hamilton using D Lee. Rips on the Block and D Lee is on the way out. DO IT.
Not happening, Rip is in his 30s and the Pistons are about to sign Villanueva and Ben Gordon.
EXACTLY. They arent bringing rip off the bench and they are trying to pay Ben Gordon too much to come off the bench. And if you actually seen RIP play he looks as if he was in his 20’s.
My point is, first of all, they would not want Lee because of Villanueva. 2nd of all, why would the knicks trade a young and VALUABLE David Lee for an older Richard Hamilton. Plus, I don’t see Ben Gordon being a starter in the Piston’s already undersized rotation.
Unless they deal Rip I guess…but not to the knicks
Does it matter what you see? no all that matters is what they see and why would they pay all that money for a bench player PLUS Rip is already unhappy AND they dont have any other forwards. Yea they signed Charlie V but other than him they have KWAME BROWN.
talk about not thinking before you speak!you invented that
Well If you actually think of your comments your dumber than I thought.
IF YOU COULD THINK!
lol, wow talk about proving a point.
Wait bob, what did KBT say that was stupid? I’m confused.
OK, so if it was up to you, here is the pistons lineup next year
Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Villenueva
D lee
Wow that is SOME tough lineup..
Its better than
Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Vill
KWAME BROWN
with a unhappy RIP
plus who says Lee has to play center and they could easily get Gortat or something.
2 at least we get something for Lee I will take that 30 year old SG who has alot left in him then nothing at all.
there hasnt been a player mentioned on this site that you wouldnt put in a KNICKS UNI!
OK we are mentioning very talented players who could help our team. Why wpu;dn’t I want some of them on the Knicks. There you go being stupid again..
I agree that they need to deal rip, but not to the Knicks because then either D lee is playing center or he’s on the bench. They could deal Rip for like a first rounder and a solid bench player.
I’m not sure a 31 year old SG making almost 13 mil for the next three years is the way to go.
Hahaha If they got the Uconn trifecta then I might become a Pistons fan. They trade their team, grab Emeka Okafor, Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Hasheem Thabeet, Josh Boone, Hilton Armstrong, Kevin Ollie, Donyell Marshall and Marcus Williams and make a UConn all-star team.
Anybody read/post this yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4300407
Bring on all the spaniards to NY!!
But seriously…is there a possible match here?
Chandler for Rudy and a pick?
I like Rudy but I would like Rudy gay a lot more I like the trade up above better. Plus I don’t know if I would give up chandler for that package, portlands pick is going to be in the late first round and rudy is not the caliper player that Chandler is
I’m talking about Rudy Fernandez Obviously wow alot of Rudy’s lol and I’m a Rudy lol so I’m (rudy) commenting about rudy fernandez and rudy gay ahh
thats rude!
I’m happy we didn’t trade Lee for the 5 pick. I think we could get better assets for him now in a sign and trade rather than just having Mayo. How can you not be happy with drafting Gallinari? Have you seen him shoot the ball? He is 20 years old, and in a few years will be a better player than Hedo Turkaglu, and we all know how valuable Hedo is…I went to almost all the games he played in, and he is very exciting to watch and brings a ton of energy to the crowd. I was at that game where the Knicks almost came back against the Magic, and Gallo hit that 3 from deep over Dwight Howard to bring us within reach…that was incredible, and it just shows how much potential he has.
POST YOUR BEST THREE-WAY TRADE SCENARIOS HERE:
-Lee to Memphis
-Rubio to New York
-What does Minnesota get?
-How do the other pieces fit?
Rubio to the Knicks
NYK- Robinson to SAC, Jefferies or Chandler to Minn
SAC- Evans to Minn, 2010 1st Rd Pick-NYK
Minn- Rubio to NYK
I like the trade from minn and the knicks perspective but why in their right mind would sac to it? give up evans and an 2010 first rounder for nate ? I don’t think so
SAC giving up a first round pick to the Knicks may be pushing it. Clearly, Sac is the team most interested in Nate’s services. The team needs a marketable player to fill the seats. A two time slam dunk champ fills the bill. Maalof’s are big fans of Nate. A similar trade almost happened in Feb.
I prefer a slight variation on this trade and keeping Evans over Rubio:
NYK- Robinson to SAC, Jefferies to POR
SAC- Evans to NYK,
POR- Rodriguez, Batum to NYK
Rubio to NYK. Knicks sign and trade Nate Robinson and package him with Eddy Curry to Minn. We get Rubio and some combination of Minn spare parts like Cardinal, Madsen, Thomas. Minn is an interesting rebuild and Nate and Eddy are young enough to fit there. I see Jefferson as a PF and Love as a SF. Both are playing out of position IMO. I also believe David Lee will remain a Knick. Memphis got Randolph and Memphis is after Milsap. Real happy if my dreams come true. Finally I fully agree that Hill is a rookie and not a replacement for Lee. He should be playing center and help with the defense.
I think Lee to Memphis still has to be part of the equation. As does Nate to another team, namely Sacramento. I’d like to see them trade both of those guys and keep Chandler, despite the fact that he may actually have more trade value.
In this economy, there is DEFINITELY demand for Mobley’s contract (80% paid by insurance, so he has more value than people perceive. Same goes for the expiring contracts of Al Harrington and Larry Hughes, who could both fit on some teams. Walsh traded Zack and Crawford when everyone said it was impossible. Now he’s armed with expiring contracts and some flexibility, so I like his chances.
We are stuck with Curry, but might be able to move Jared Jeffries. Aside from that, I think we move Lee, Nate, Mobley, and either Harrington or Hughes. Who are the takers? Where would they fit best on other teams? What teams need the financial relief most?
When Do S&T start?: the 8th?
If I am David Lee, why would I want to sign with a small market team like Memphis that is at least two years away from competing for a spot in the playoffs in the most competitive division the NBA. I think the Knicks sign Lee, if they can include Jefferies in a sign and trade deal for Nate. Lee is asking for $10M and the Knicks countered with $8M. Even if Memphis or OKC offers $10-12M per, Lee can make up the difference in endorsement deals in NY.
DW loves Harrington. Coach seems to agree. The expiring contract of Hughes will be of more value at the trade deadline. I agree their should be a better market for a contract and a player like Hughes. If I am DW, any sign and trade deal involving Lee has to include Hughes.
Bob go knicks, u gotta stop sh*ttin on DW for losing the lottery… C’mon, you know it doesn’t work like that. Every GM in the league is a big failure because they missed out on Griffin, right? Is that the way it works?
The league doesn’t revolve around us… sorry to say. We do the best we can with what is available. We passed on the fifth pick because the terms of the deal were that we wouldn’t pick rubio, so we would essentially be giving up Hill AND chandler, JUST for curry, and no GM in his right mind would do that.
Obviously, there are certain things we would like to get done, but most of them can’t get done right away, if ever, without paying a price that is just way too steep. I’m getting a little tired of you senseless rants against DW for things that he has no control over. When an opportunity presents himself, if the price is right, he will be on top of it.
Patience is a virtue. It’s also necessary unless you want DW do be the next Isiah Thomas… Although you did recently say we should bring isiah back, so clearly you just don’t really get whats going on.
@ italion stalion: The reason why i think letting another team sign Lee as a FA is essentially ‘letting him go for nothing,’ is because he is a great player who we developed from a 1 million dollar talent, to a 10 million dollar a year talent, and by letting im walk we lose all of that accumulated worth. I don’t look at the cap room as a bonus, because ideally we would be trading him for expiring contracts, which, come 2010, would come off the books anyway. Either that or we could be getting a rookie contract or two, maybe rubio, which is definitely worth the cap room.
Letting him walk for nothing is a huge mistake. We need more assets if we want our team to be good enough to lure a max FA next year, and we should be using him to acquire those assets.
Jeff,
We are saying the same thing.
If he walks we have 10m of extra cap room next year.
If we trade him and get back the expiring contracts of essentially useless players, we have 10M of extra cap room next year and a couple of dogs with fleas on the bench taking up space this year.
Those two sceanrios are basically the same long term.
If we could trade him for a teriffic young prospect that would be great, but it’s not going to happen unless we take back a shit contract with him. Then we can’t use the 10m to sign a really good player next year. We’ll have a cheap good prospect and an expensive dog with fleas.
To me, people dramatically overcomplicate these issues by thinking about trades, losing popular players for nothing, losing good players for nothing etc….
It’s all about value.
To me, Lee is worth 7M-8M a year. Others may not agree, but that’s besides the point. If you would just grant me that value, then I say you don’t sign him for a nickel more than 8m. If you can trade him and get back more than 8M of value, you do it. If you can’t, you let him walk and use that 8M next year to try to sign a player worth 10M. If you can do that, then letting Lee walk was a major score because you have a 10M player instead of a 8m player, but only spent 8M. There are always players available, you just don’t ever want to overspend.
You are very confident that we will be able to trade him, and what do you do if we dont?
Here’s the latest from Lee’s agent regarding his price.. doesnt look like a “home town discount” is an option.. could be just hardball
Would Lee be willing to give New York a hometown discount? Mark Bartelstein: “This is a business decision for David, and he’s gotta do what’s right for him and his family. We’re hoping like heck it works out in New York, but you know, heck, the Knicks have had a pretty big hometown discount for the last four years. He’s probably been the most underpaid player in the league the last four years by drafting him at 30 in the draft, and had him for basically a minimum salary for four years. You get a guy who leads the league in double double and pay him like you paid him last year, they had a great hometown discount.” Sports Radio Interviews
Comment by Assistant DA
2009-07-01 18:55:24
If I am David Lee, why would I want to sign with a small market team like Memphis that is at least two years away from competing for a spot in the playoffs in the most competitive division the NBA.
what has Lee seen from his years in NYC that tells him the Knicks will be competitive? I think a team like OKC or Memphis has more hope if you look at the young talent they have assembled
So you think, the Grizzles are going to have a better record next season then which three teams (Spurs, Hornets, Rockets, Mavs) in their division? Even without Yao next year, I am not sure they will be a better team then the Rockets.
Plus the Grizzles owner does not appear to want to pay the luxury tax next year. OKC is a much better fit. I was surprised they did not draft Rubio or Curry to make a sign and trade possible.
cerainly the Rockets. Maybe the Hornets and the Mavs/Spurs arent getting any younger.
I agree on OKC but if you look at the young talent on both Memphis and OKC you should get pretty excited.
The Knicks just drafted a player that is arguably a replacement for D Lee and have an injured Gallo and Wilson Chandler. The talent and potential at OKC and Mem is so much higher from an objective standpoint.
Truthfully, I disagree. The Rockets without Yao took the Lakers to 7 games in the playoffs. The Hornets maybe the only team in the division that is vulnerable, but that is only if they continue to have injuries to key players. The Mavs and Spurs are set to compete for an NBA title for the next couple of years. I don’t think you are being objective about this.
i think from a potential stand point the Grizzle fans have a little hope. BUT you can’t expect players with only a year or two experience in the NBA to be competitive in that division. It’s just not realistic. In the history of the NBA, there has never been an NBA team with that little experience that competed for an NBA title. The only thing the Grizzles will most likely be competing for next year is another lottery pick.
If you ask the same question of the Knicks and look at the Atlantic Division (76ers, Celtics, Raptors, and Nets), you see the competitiion in the east is very different.
PLUS, I don’t beleive that Hill was drafted as a potential replacement to Lee. He was drafted as a complement that would allow Lee to play more at his natural PF position. The Knicks last season lacked depth at every position which meant your starters played to many minutes in Coach’s uptempo 7second system. In terms of talent… I guess we will see in the summer of 2010 if top notch free agents prefer the Knicks talent over the Grizzles. Do you think J-Kidd or G-Hil will be taking a trip to Memphis tomorrow to meet with them about signing as a free agent?
Wilson Chandler is not injured, he’s fine and will play this season. As will Gallinari hopefully.
I was referring to GALLO as the injured player. BUT Wlson DID have surgery to remove bone spurs in his ankle and is currently rehabbing that injury. He may be just off crutches recently.
@ Asst DA.
The Rockets? smoke and mirrors. They will likely be losing Artest and then what do they have without Yao and TMac? Yes they won games without both but you cant deny that there is NO star players on that team without both. Lets see them sustain that over 82 games.
Regarding the young teams. I think a young Free Agent would prefer to go to a situation where there are OTHER young players that are considered the future stars of the league. THe Young FA could grow with them and create something meaningful long term.
Kidd is looking at NYC because his kids are in the area. NO idea what is driving G-Hill and I hope he doesnt come close to our roster.
Clearly the knicks will spend BUT we have Sooo many expirings we HAVETO work within the salary cap. AND once we get UNDER the cap in 2010/11 we can not simply ramp up and double the cap in the next year. It doesnt work that way. This Knicks team will be turning over 90% of the roster in the next 18 months in an ATTEMPT to land one or two BIG free agents.
It is a risky strategy. Looking objectively as a prospective free agent I would much rather position myself on a team with 3 or 4 young upcoming stars than on a team with 8 expiring deals hoping to lure a big free agent in two years.
And Im sure Lee’s agent has told D Lee that EVEN if he signs in NY he can be traded to ANY TEAM in December of the first year of his contract. So the illusion of security in the town of his choice is nonsense. There is no guarantee that if we sign Lee for X mills that we dont trade him in december of the first year to ANY team based on our Needs at that time.
Im not sure Hill was drafted as a Center option. He was insurance against Lee signing elsewhere. A Front court of Lee/Hill would certainly not have much offensive game – from what i’ve seen and read of Hill and what Ive seen of Lee.
We’ll see how it fleshes out but once thing we know for sure is that Lee will NOT be getting 35 plus minutes per game this year so his numbers will more than likely go down.
Spoken like a true agent Mr. Bartelstein. Something tells me that he doesn’t want the hometown discount and wants to make the most of his 10-15%
“_avi_” Lee looking for 60 – 65 mil 5 yr deal? LMAO!!!! Is he nuts? If that’s what he’s looking for he’s gonna be hearing this sound a lot:
http://ia311541.us.archive.org/0/items/That_Sound_You_Hear_When_You_Lose_On_The_Price_Is_Right/Price_Is_Right_loser_clip.wav
Lee and his agent thinking that he’s worth 12M makes me think we shouldn’t resign him because he’s delusional and may have a drug problem.
Lee is a mildly above average starting PF that boards well and scores efficiently around the basket, but he doesn’t defend well, can’t block shots, and his offensive upside is severely limited by the lack of any outside shot. Plus, if anything his stats are overrated because the Knicks play at a fast pace in the D’Antoni system.
He’s not a 10M-12M player. He’s more like a 7m-8m player “AT BEST”.
Besides, I think rebounding is overrated. It’s obviously very import at the team level, but finding good rebounders is not that tough. They are a dime dozen. It wouldn’t shock me if Hill is getting close to 10 rebounds per night by the end of his rookie season if you adjust his stats for 36 minutes of playing time.
He’s thinking he’s Emeka Okafor
Espn reporting Pistons just made two signings both ben gordan and charlie V link here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines
Hoopsworld is saying ZBO for QRich is close to happening. One less team for Lee.
Maybe if his options dry up we can resign him at 6-7 mil
can someone explain to me why Ron Artest would not be a good fit here?
isnt his toughness and defense something this team can benefit from?
what kind of contract is going to demand?
A couple reasons why Artest is not a fit are:
1) He’s sort of a me first player he hurt houston sometimes in the season when he would just take some bad shots. I watched some of their games and he took a lot of bad shots.
2) he’s a SF we have wilson and gallo if we add artest we stunt their development
3) he would cut in to 2010 cap space
YAY THE MARKET FOR LEE IS SHRINKING!!
Donnie Walsh should wait and force David Lee to take the QO.
Lee to take the QO would be the worst case scenario. He would be free to sign with any team next season like Gordon with the Pistons.
There should only be two options for Donnie
1. S&T him to a team that wants
2. Try to sign him to a reasonable contract (4 yrs 30-32 mil?)
The least amount of teams with cap space this season, puts us in the drivers seat.
If we can’t sign a Star next summer with our cap space and are forced to sign players like Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, I’m going to be very disappointed. Am I being ungrateful?
Don’t worry. Of course we will get a star if we want. There are so many stars on free agency next year and who wouldn’t want to go to the Knicks? Now that we have Dantoni and Walsh repping us, we actually look like a real professional team. We are rebuilding and the good players want to be in New York when we get good again
Piston fans went from Boozer to Villanueva, that’s pretty disappointing.
Gordon is OK, but when you have RIP and Stuckey already, what’s the point?
The thing is if you could exchange Q for Zbo for one season and then import Lee for 4 seasons, and you want Lee, why not? Q’s not selling tickets, while Zbo might. Zbo is a one season fix. Lee is for the future. If the Grizz want Lee, I can see them still going after him.
We should still be looking to trade D lee. We can afford it, and if it means getting a young pg, maybe Rubio, it would be well worth it. Getting Rubio would give us stability at the PG spot, and we wouldn’t have to worry about having a PG for another 15 years. Next year that means we could just focus on Lebron, and not worry about a giant hole in the PG position. Plus, if we get Lebron, which we have enough money to do, we don’t need anybody else. Lebron is more than enough. If we don’t get lebron, we get 2 stars. But, it would suck if we really couldn’t find a PG by next year, and I don’t mean a 36 year old rental. If there is an opportunity, Walsh better be going after it, because there is a small window of opportunity because of the buyout situation, and Rubio’s discontent.
If I were Detroit, I would have saved my money and went into the FA market next summer. I think wasting $20M in cap room on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva is a terrible move.
PF: Charlie Villanueva
SF: Tayshaun Prince
C: Jason Maxiell
SG: Rip Hamilton
PG: Rodney Stuckey
6th: Ben Gordon
Ehh.
Jason Maxiell center? He’s 6′7.
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