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Amidst all of the David Lee chatter on this site, let’s not forget that Nate Robinson can help a team win. Teams might be concerned about the
horrible record of Lee and Nate since they have been here, but I am simply not buying that problem completely. Sure they added to that record, but the Knicks in general have been just awful since 2005.
Last year, love him or hate him, Nate was a scoring machine at times. Averaging close to 17/4/ 4 per game, Nate had a strong statistical season. His problem is that he is too erratic at times to be a team’s first or second best option. He is best suited as a scoring spark off the pine. For strong teams, Nate can be a major factor. Think about a team like the Lakers who have been linked to Nate before. Playing with Artest, Kobe, Fisher, and Gasol, am I wrong in thinking that Nate can be a strong player off their bench? I am not forgetting about his antics and his inconsistency at times. I am not forgetting what he did in NY. Knicks fans get on this guy for all his negatives, and sometimes we forget how special of a player Nate can really be at times. When Nate is on his game, he is close to unstoppable. When he is off his game, he should be sitting on the bench.
Teams are apparently interested in Lee, despite his lack of an offer. Teams are concerned that the Knicks will match any offer to Lee. But are teams scared that the Knicks will match offers to Nate Robinson? If a team offers Nate $4 million per season, will the Knicks match that offer? To be honest, I think a low level, young player and a draft pick can get Nate. Let’s stick with the Lakers for a second. A 2011 first rounder and a player like Farmar can probably be enough to entice Donnie Walsh. If Walsh can get a first rounder out of Nate, that would be a good enough haul considering that Walsh does not want to incorporate Nate into his LT financial plans.
The Bulls just signed Jannero Pargo to a 1 year, $2 million deal. Cross them off the list of suitors. But Nate can help the Kings. Perhaps a 2011 lottery protected pick can be had? Nate can also help a team like the Magic, who now have a large trade exception to play around with. Maybe we can package Jeffries and Nate for an Orlando first rounder?
My point is that Nate can help a lot of good teams. He is a bench player, and always will be a bench player. On the right team though, he can be a major piece to success. His ability to score the basketball is unique relative to other bench players. What are teams waiting for on Robinson?
I too am confused by the lack of attention Nate is getting. I honestly thought things would move faster for Nate than Lee, being as he’ll be cheaper and other teams won’t be “threatened” by us matching an offer. Lakers and Magic are indeed the best fits.
If Jannero Pargo, who is a better player than nate can get only that much money, why would a team give up a first round pick for the right to pay him more than that? All Nate does is score and Pargo is better at that than him. No one is interested in Nate because he’s not good. Ariza is 24, probably the best young, perimeter defender in the league, who played a huge role on the championship team and he only got the midlevel. Yet, somehow David Lee and Nate Robinson, who have never won more than 33 games in a season, are hot commodities and team are lining up to give up draft picks for the right to overpay them? Come on. On a different note. I’m worried that with something like 10 expiring contracts on the team next season that it could be a mess. Last year was great because everyone bought in and played together. Will they do the same when they’re all looking for that next contract?
Knicks are probably trying to package Jeffries in any Nate S&T and no one wants to bite on that. I feel that if teams could get Nate alone, there would be more interest.
That’s fair. But any team looking at Nate can use Jeffries. If a good team, like LA or Orlando wants Nate, Jeffries can help. The Orlando bench is not necessarily long.
If LA loses Odom, they can use a backup forward to spell Artest, Gasol, and Bynum. jeffires has some worth on the court and would be even better for a good team.
His price tag might be high though. That is possible.
why would we let Nate walk for Jordan Farmer and a late first rounder 2 years out??
I’d much rather keep Nate for another year at the QO and let him potentially increase his value for UFA in 2010..
He could continue to improve his game.
Better fit w our personnel / system.
Nate was 17/4/4 in less than 30 minutes a game with 1.3 steals.
D’Antoni gets paid to COACH.. let him continue to coach Nate and make him a better fit.
If this was about paying Nate big money i’d say let him walk in a S&T but there are NO OFFERS out there for him.. why get aggressive in moving a player who performed more than well in a system that everyone says he is such a bad fit for?
Did you watch the games, or just read the box score?
no one can argue Nate made some mistakes and was a source of some frustration but he is a young player and can be coached.
I can say that about any young player. Lee’s D was matador like. Nate didnt get over screens. Hopefully with less minutes and less reliance these problems can be coached away.
Just like I dont want to pay Lee over 7.5 mil I dont want to give Nate a 5 mil deal but neither is on the table.
Notice how Portland is now going after RFA Milsap? does that mean anything that they are making a play for Milsap instead of Lee?
This is the best case scenario. Our players are not as wanted as we thing they are..and there are no big offeres (or even OFFERS) for both.,
Let them come back for the QO and continue to be coached. Lee’s agent is full of shit that there are 15 teams lined up to pay him big coin.. Nate is in Spain for chissakes..
Did you watch any games in February?
Thank you thats what im saying Mike D is suppose to coach players rather than getting fustrated and saying he doesn’t want that guy trade him, not that Mike D or Walsh have ever said they don’t want Nate its been more Tommy Dee and others say they can’t see him coming back. Nate for Farmar and a pick is a horrible trade same goes for Orlando they wont have good draft picks maybe the Kings but not LA or FL.
maybe nate is uncoachable,and the rest of the league knows it
why all this rush to get Nat off the team for peanuts?
We now know that Nate will not garner even mid level money this year so why just jettison him for some uncertain protected draft pic years out and players who dont help long term.
This market should have taught Nate and Lee a lesson and they should both take the QO and try to play on a WINNING team in NY this year and then see what they can get in UDA 2010/.
Letting Nate walk to Orlando for a trade exception makes no sense. Unless there is an OFFER SHEET on the table for either Lee or Nate let them sweat it out and play for the QO.
Now that a week has passed and Robinson and Lee have not received an offer sheet against which DW can compete, I expect the parties will come together and agree on contract. Failing that each player would be left with the qualifying offer. Not good. After that, I hope that DW goes out and finds a long term upgrade for this roster. Probably with the exception of Gallinari, all the present players are trade bait for the right deal. Unless management thinks that the present roster is capable of playing defense, I cannot see much improvement with the current roster. Your thoughts.
what’s so Not Good about the QO from a Knicks perspective?
It is the best of both worlds in that it maintains our cap flexibility and keeps the players here another year after which we can negotiate long term with bird rights or execute Sign and trades.
if they took the qualifying offer,
we wouldn’t be able to trade them w/o their permission.
and unless we sign and traded them, their cap hold would significantly impact our free agent spending.
their cap holds would be about 7 mil TOTAL.
Their QO numbers are 2.9 for Nate and 2.6 for Lee.. As UFA we can renounce them in 2010 if we need the coin for Lebnron.
Who would rather have? Nate and Lee for 7 on the cap or Jeffries for 7? Jeffries is tradeable this coming year.
i remember reading that their cap hold is three times their current salary.
120% of their last years salary.
i replied at the bottom of the thread to make things easier.
If Lee and Robinson take their QOs this season and the Knicks retain ther Bird Rights, their “holds” would be ($8.7M for Nate, $8.1M for Lee – the CBA calls for three times the players previous salary if it is less than the league average).*
Taken from Hahns blog entry from today
and if we renounce them, we get nada.
id rather have a first rounder two years down the road then nada..
just sayin.
i know there is no easy solution to this.
The NOT GOOD is the player getting nothing more than the qualifying offering is likely to walk after the season (ie: Ben Gordon). I would rather have a reasonable contract signing which will facilitate trading these players for serious upgrades. I agree with you that making trades just to move players will not improve the team. Most of our players have value and with patience they will be moved.
Darko will help the D some, as will Douglas’ attitude and fight in practice. Oakley being around won’t hurt either. Chandler has the athleticism to be Artest-like, now he needs to commitment and attitude to match that. Harrington gives an A+ effort. No Crawford, Z-Bo, and probably Nate is a good thing defensively. Gallo will be judged on this year, not last year.
Biggie- I agree weith you. But are you willing to sign Nate beyond this year? I am sure DW would love Nate to take the QO. That’s not what I was wondering. I was wondering why another team has not offered him a contract.
I blame it totally on the recession. Owners are in financial trouble. Some teams are in financial trouble and it is simply not fashionable to overpay for anything. Look at all the Fa and RFA who have not made deals. It is a buyers market and buyers are sitting back hoping to steal players. DW is at the head of that line. Transactions will occur. I hope the players realize that they are going to have to settle for less than home runs.
Nope.. not willing to extend Nate beyond this year..
and apparently neither is anyone else because Nate is in Spain and not meeting with teams that might be interested in him.
Lee isnt getting any offers either. and is not getting ANY meetings as far as we can tell.. So WHY force the issue with either? If no one offers them a deal then let them play for the QO or let them go out and come up with an Offer Sheet.
Neoither one has.. does that ring here with anyone as to why? Milsap is being courted by Portland as we speak according to hoopshype..
TD — any word on that from the inside?
correct me if im wrong..
but if they took the qualifying offer,
we wouldn’t be able to trade them w/o their permission.
and unless we sign and traded them, their cap hold would significantly impact our free agent spending.
the capholds would not SIGNIFICANTLY impact our FA spending.. and we could renounce them if necessary.
from Alahn Hahn’s blog entry on the subject from today.
If Lee and Robinson take their QOs this season and the Knicks retain ther Bird Rights, their “holds” would be ($8.7M for Nate, $8.1M for Lee – the CBA calls for three times the players previous salary if it is less than the league average).
Coon doesnt say less than “league average” but less than average…
Ill have to take another read of Coons page but it doesnt make much sense that a player with a 5 mil number would count 15 mil as a hold.
Ive know the number to be 120% of the previous years salary.
if they lock up that much space then u have to renounce them
so basically, what you are saying is,
that you are wrong.
and if we renounce, we get zilch in return.
which would bum me out.
There will be NO need for Nate once we get Rubio…
I have a question is the summer league setup in tournament form based on what team drafted 1st like :
1.Clippers
14. Suns
2.Grizzlies
13. Pacers
3. Thunder
12. Bobcats
4. Kings
11. Nets
5. Wizards
10. Bucks
6. T Wolves
9. Raptors
7. Warriors
8. Knicks
i believe that in the end,, nate will be dealt for sum average type player and lee will remain a Knick. I agre with everyone who believe we should keep both,,well at least for this upcoming season. These players know the system and lee and nate will only get better in it for one more season. Forcing the issue will not not realy us except only for cap relief. The blazers are rumored to have offered T Outlaw and steve blake for lee. I like this deal but i believe we can get so much more elsewhere or maybe even next summer for Lee. Although blake is solid pg and Outlaw will be an all star in this league one year…so will lee and i believe we cant just give up the leagues best rebounder, based on statistics ofcourse. The blazers are courting millsap as we speak, who they believe is way more aggressive than Lee, and wouldnt mind backing up aldridge at the 4 position. We have had a pretty solid offseason so far, but we have to start making moves and stop sleeping on other prospects out there. I agree with the Grant hill signing. He would bring a veteran mind to the locker room and another scorer in our lineup although his age is catching up with him. There are still steals out there. Why didnt we go after Dahntay jones??? he signed a 4 year ,11 million dollar deal with Indiana today. Hes a solid lockdown one on one defender and extremely athletic to accomodate our seven seconds or less offense, as well as hes al harringtons cousin. He would help us at the 2 alot , and once again,,,,he plays DEFENSE. We are also holding out on Ramon sessions,,,whats the deal there???? I think the Knicks have to start making moves asap or were gonna be left out of solid free agent signings. The caves resigned varajao,,,close to signing anthony parker….and theres rumors of jj hickson and wally going to charlotte for wallace!!!!! are u kdding me,,,the caves would most likely break or tie the bulls regular season record of 72-and 10 with that squad!!!! we just gotta start making moves
Here’s a link from Oregonian re Portland’s interest in Milsap:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/07/blazers_preparing_offer_for_ut.html
I’m probably reading too much in to it, but I was wondering if there was a reason the Knicks have yet to sign Jordan Hill? Maybe there keeping him unsigned for a potential trade? Just a thought…
Got a hypothetical question…
If you are the Knicks and you are trying everything to get Rubio…
Do you trade Nate to Orlando for the rights to Fran Vazquez, to enhance Rubio’s interest?
Would having a fellow country man, sweeten the pot for the both of them to want to be in New York?
Rubio’s problem is Minny not NY. He would love to play here.
True, I understand that… But the Knicks would then be one of the only NBA teams that could help him make a smoother transition by having a player he already knows well…
Would that push Rubio’s camp harder to make him a Knick as soon as possible… And put even more pressure on Kahn…
It certainly would allow the Knicks to offer different players to make a trade work… Hill and Lee become more expendable
i really like this idea….but to be honest i dont think the knicks need to do that just to get Rubio…..remember ….during the draft workouts,,,he didnt want to go to memphis,,,,and they got marc Gasol. I dont really think having a fellow countrymen would spark his interest,,,jus playing for a big market would. The knicks, either way, have the upper hand because i believe we can him based on the fact that he wants to come here and play under D’antoni euro-centric type of betball system…its Minnesota thats causing the delay
Good Points
Yup. Harrington for Rubio and a contract will be enough
No chance. That’s not fair at all.
BTW, does anyone know who is Nate’s agent ? We keep hearing a lot about Lee’s clumsy Mark, but not a word from Nate’s ?
I mean, Robinson is a great player despite his 6-year-old-boy attitude. 17 ppg, dunk contest champ twice, that is marketable. Doesn’t he have an agent ??
LOL
Funny thing is, if Lee takes the QO then he’ll have to play with other big men (Jordan Hill, Darko Milicic, Eddy Curry) and that’ll hurt his numbers and his financial value LMAO. He’s not in a great position right now, maybe the money the Knicks will offer this summer is the ceiling.
Anyways Nate is one of the most underrated players in the league in my opinion (even though he’s a knucklehead and a liability defensively). But people believe that he’ll never be a starter because of his size (which is understandable) and he does not have a winner mentality, and there’s objectively no reason to rush for a bench player who has never been in the playoffs. The lack of attention is surprising though, he’s a good player.
It’s a simple one with Nate. Big personality with no resume….
Nate and Lee have the same resume… Being solid players on a losing team for years… Nate was up for the Sixth Man Award… David Lee leads league in double doubles… Between them there are Slam Dunk Championships and a Rookie Sophomore game MVP…
Personal accolades and no team success, at all…
Same boat…
hence why they are hanging,,,
I think the reason no one has offered him a contract is because they know we will match it unless they offer something over 5 mil, which they just won’t do. DW is in no rush to let Nate OR Lee walk, and i have a feeling he will match any offer for either of them (assuming the offers will be small given the current climate). Even if he plans on trading nate to a playoff team before the deadline, I still see him matching any smallish offer, and i think the rest of the league knows that. Either way, whatever donnie is doing, it is working because we are going to be getting the cheapest possible option; much cheaper than we expected. What if lee becomes our MLE?
I agree. Nate for the QO isn’t bad at all, worry about him next year. Lee at $5-8m is perfect.
IF need be, he’s tradeable next year at that price.
Sign Player A (Wade)
S&T Lee for Player B (Bosh)
We know DW told Colangelo he wants Bosh, and I really think Lee’s a better fit in Toronto between Bargnani and Hedo. Although I don’t expect it, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lee for Bosh happens this year.
S&T they sign Bosh and trade for Lee.
I have hated on nate consistently in this forum, but the truth is, he is capable of putting up 30 points over and over again on consecutive nights, and a player like that usually doesn’t garner less than the MLE, but his small size and clear lack of effort on defense (his inability to get around screens is nothing more than a complete indifference to the task; watching him, you can see he just doesn’t think defense means anything) are causing him to be MUCH cheaper than a typical player of his production would be. for 4.5 mil (or something like that) a player who with a little maturity and consistency could be averaging 23-6-5-2.5 is a great deal, even if he isn’t in your long term plans. You match any offer that gets made because worst case scenario is teams will be lining up to trade for him come the deadline, and we might be able to get a new young piece for the future.
in the end, other teams understand that we have all the leverage, and that unless they are really willing to cough up the dough for him, which at this time nobody is, we are going to match, and nobody wants to throw away those 7 days.
I expect both nate and lee to be on the floor come opening night, even if one or both is playing under the QO.
in the end, other teams understand that we have all the leverage, and that unless they are really willing to cough up the dough for him, which at this time nobody is, we are going to match, and nobody wants to throw away those 7 days.
+1