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Why Sessions Makes Sense…And Nate Does Not

by Ben Kopelman on July 24th, 2009 at 10:38 am

In a recent post regarding Nate Robinson‘s future in New York, I wrote about how the Knicks management should make it clear to Nate that he has no role on this team as a one-year player.  I argued that if they are to have Nate suit up in 2009, they better have him under contract through 2011 at the bare minimum.

For me, this team is building for the future.  No matter who we sign this summer, and no matter who is on our roster to start next season, we are going to be on the outside looking in.  Could we make the playoffs in the East? No doubt about it, we could. But will we be contenders in the East?  Can’t really see that happening.

Look: this team is going to make a big splash signing next summer. Maybe it’s a silver bullet savior like LBJ or Wade.  Maybe it’s a 1A talent like Bosh, Amare or Boozer.  But regardless of who it is, the goal THIS year should be to set up the best possible team for one of these players to join next summer.  I am not talking about going after guys who text message with LeBron.  I am talking about NBA players who are a superstar away from being a championship team.

That said, what is the point of going out and trying to sign Andre Miller to a one year deal?  Because he could be had on the cheap? Who cares! He is WORTHLESS to this team if he comes in as a one year player.  Letting somebody take up the playing time of one of our younger players as they audition for the other 29 teams and a 2010 contract is completely counterproductive in my mind.

Now, some people will point out that the Knicks have a nice handful of players who fit that exact mold.  Am I in favor of benching Duhon and Harrington, simply because they are not under contract after next season?  Of course not. I want the Knicks to be a playoff team in 2009 and I know that some people who might not be part of our future will have to have a hand in the present if that dream is to turn into reality.

But simply because the situation is not ideal does not mean we should worsen it any further.

That is why a guy like Ramon Sessions is the first (and only) player the Knicks have been linked to who I am in favor of singing.  Maybe he is the point guard of the future.  Maybe he is a Jerome James.  But what he gives the Knicks is a chance to build for the future.  He gives the Knicks the chance of getting a young player who is going to get better as he plays more.  He gives the Knicks another body to line up next to [insert 2010 FA's name] and make us all the more competitive.

How does Nate Robinson playing out the final year of his contract benefit the Knicks?  What logic is there to give Nate playing time — when he is simply going to walk away after the season — over a guy like Toney Douglas, who the Knicks have under contract for the next few years?  This is not “Nate Hate.”  This is not about how good or bad Nate will be next year.  This is about the future of the team — and if he is not going to be a contractually-obligated member of it, I do not see why he should be a member at all.

As the summer’s sun begins to set, the Knicks are yet to make any substantial moves towards improving their 2009-10 team.  I am not happy about that.  I want to be better next year.  I want the Knicks to show signs of life, beyond what they showed last season.  But I want the team to go about its business with the bigger picture at the very forefront of its mind.

Signing a guy like Sessions, and cutting ties with Nate Robinson would be a great (albeit late) start.
  • Mucha

    No.

    Because Toney Douglas is not NBA-ready. You can’t play two cards at the same time, either you want to see the Knicks make the playoffs or you want to see Toney Douglas get major playing time and learn from his mistakes. Some players didn’t play much during their rookie season but had great sophomore years anyways.

    Nobody is really interested in Nate Robinson. I’d trade him for another talented player (Jerryd Bayless?) but it seems that no deal is on the table. If he’s willing to take the QO, keep him one more year and hope that he’ll help us make the playoffs. Then see what happens next summer.

    I like Ramon Sessions, but I understand Donnie Walsh’s reluctance.

  • awsef

    Sort of off topic but i came up with a creative idea to create more cap space for 2010.
    Everyone knows it will be close to impossible to get rid of Eddy Curry (without taking a similar bad contract bad). So, how about offering Curry an extension with the twist being that his extension would be backloaded for 2011, 2012, and maybe 2013. This way, his cap number in 2010 won’t hurt us as much and we won’t have to worry about trading him to create more space for another superstar free agent. It makes sense for Curry to accept the deal because he would be making more money and NOBODY will offer him anything after he is done with his Knicks tenure. Remember, he is an overweight and out-of-shape big man who can’t rebound and he has a major heart issue that the Knicks are choosing to ignore but other teams (i.e. Chicago) will not ignore. If he wants, there can be some agreement to buy him out so he can look for work somewhere else but, even if they do that, his 2010 salary would still be less.

    While this sounds like a good idea to me, I was looking for some feedback. Also, I’m not sure what the rules are regarding extensions and how much contracts could be backloaded. If anyone knows the rules, please share.

  • dino2008

    Who says Nate can’t be part of the future? He is unguardable and the perfect guy to have off the bench as your 6th man. If you want to compete you need to have a good bench and imo in 2010 nate and al harrington can and should be part of it.

  • BiggieSmalls

    How does Nate Robinson playing out the final year of his contract benefit the Knicks? What logic is there to give Nate playing time — when he is simply going to walk away after the season — over a guy like Toney Douglas, who the Knicks have under contract for the next few years?

    Toney Douglas is NOT NBA ready by any stretch. “plugging” TD in for Nates minutes (30 plus last year) and hoping for the best is a recipe for disaster.

    I would not ever compare a 33 year old Andre Miller on a one year deal to a 25 year old Nate Robinson playing out for the qualifier.

    If all goes right next year Nate will get LESS minutes than he got this year and will NOT be the point guard for any of those minutes. This is a good thing for the Knicks and Nates development.

    Nate is a YOUNG player who can IMPROVE if the coaching staff will continue to work with him. He is FAR FROM a finished product. I dont think he is a hopelessly selfish player on par with marbury who has no means of redeeming himself or making himself better.

    The way these posts are worded makes it seem that is what Nate is and it is simply inconsistent with the opinion of the commenters on this site.

    To just tell Nate to walk for nothing and say he is hopeless and useless to this team and a “one year player” is Nate Hate. plain and simple./

    NO ONE is giving Nate a Big contract. NO ONE in the NBA that is. he is undersized.and has a role but is NOT a number one option like he was used last year & should not bne expected to be a number one option.

  • Frank

    Um, I think this article was written by the same guy that wanted Sebastian Telfair on this team. So I think that pretty much makes him lose all credibility.

    While I might want Sessions on this team too, I think signing Nate wouldn’t be such a bad thing. he’s gotten better every year with fewer and fewer meltdowns. Sure he still goes under screens and hogs the ball. But he averages 20+ points/40, 5.5 assists/40, scores reasonably efficiently, and doesn’t turn the ball over. Not to mention he’s great to watch. If you can get him for 4 years 16M I think he’s a better deal than Sessions at 5 years 35M or whatever the max MLE is.

  • Sergio

    Ben,

    Nate Robinson (6th man) and Ramon Sessions (starting PG) have nothing to do with each other. No reason why you cannot have both. And stop demoting an elite 6th man for the 29th pick in the Draft who shot terrible in Summer League. Toney Douglas has done NOTHING to win minutes over Robinson. I know you hate Robinson but stop with the weak arguments.

  • Bart

    Some make it seem like Sessions will be the best player on the Knicks next year if they sign him I don’t see his impact being more than Duhon before he broke down last season.

  • Ben Kopelman

    (to be fair, i merely suggested telfair might be better than darko…)

    frank — agreed. my point is not that nate is a no good washed up 6th man. not at all. my point is, if they are going to play him next year, i want it to be under a new 4yr deal like you suggest. I am not arguing for or against giving him a contract. i am simply pointing out that as a guy playing out a QO, he is the wrong fit for what we are ultimately trying to do…

  • gbaked

    this is a bad idea

  • Ben Kopelman

    sergio — that is fair. they are not carbon copies of one another. but to me its about one (sessions) representing the future and the other (nate, assuming hes playing on a qualifying offer) who represents 2009 and nothing further.
    if the knicks believe in nate enough to keep him around one more year, i expect them to believe in him enough to keep him around longer. so get him under contract if hes going to play at all.

  • Its The Kid

    Why do you speak as if signing Nate and Sessions isnt a very real possibility?

    Why do you speak as if its one or the other and both is not an option?

    You have no idea what Walsh has under his sleeve, yet you speak as if you have some knowledge… You are a dude with an opinion, which is cool and all… But everybody doesnt have to share your opinion… 1st off How does having Nate hurt the Knicks long term… If he acts up, you can always bench him and play Douglas… That only hurts Nate, not the team… He could still be traded for value mid-season or after… Because we own his Bird Rights as well… So having Nate doesnt stunt the teams growth, If Douglas out plays Nate I’m sure he will get his minutes… No validity to that point… You just dont replace Nates energy, like you just dont replace Lee’s rebounding so if you can get it cheap why not exercise that…

    2nd How do you know that Wade or Lebron wouldnt want to play on the team with Nate? Have you contacted any of these guys? It is well documented that Kobe and Lebron love Nate, and his 6th man role is very valuable in this league… Even Popvich praised him last year, likening Nates impact to Manu’s… He could very well resign in 2010, and be playing along side an elite player…

    The Knicks are trying to keep their options open, by signing short term contracts… Do I agree with that, not necessarily but in Nate’s case I’m willing to see how that works out for both parties… Could be a smart decision… And please stop, with the Nate ” is simply going to walk away after the season” stuff… You dont know that either… I’m tired of hearing you, and Tommy say that… And my personal favorite “Nate wants to get paid”. He’s not exactly showing that this summer…

  • levy858

    I agree 100 percent with most of your argument. If Nate really wanted to get paid, he would be on a Greek team making ten mil a season. I don’t however agree with your rash criticism of Ben and Tommy. This is their blog and not yours, you say everyone is entitled to an opinion, but then criticize them for expressing it. If that is how they feel about Nate Robinson, then who are you to tell them otherwise. you make it seem like they are just preaching facts, but they in actuality are what you said. Opinions

  • impereal

    I really don’t understand why Nate Robinson is dogged so much…17 points 4 asst and 4 reb…84% from the line and 33% from 3 point range??? And…he’s only 25 yrs old…I think the guy is getting a raw deal…we have a young Jason Terry..(with a higher ceiling I think and Terry gets paid 9 mil a year) and we want to throw him away with yesterday’s trash…so what If the guy isn’t a TRUE PG…he can flat out score on anybody…AND…he wants to be a KNICK…he does have issues on defense and he is a little crazy sometimes, but the kid plays HARD…I would sign sessions to a long term deal…sign Nate to a 1 yr for 4 mil…keep his bird rights and see how it goes…if all goes well we will have our PG of the future and depth in the backcourt

    sessions/duhon/douglas
    chandler/robinson

    That’s a backcourt with scoring, assists and depth

  • BiggieSmalls

    “Nate wants to get paid” is my second favorite line constantly repeated. My favorite is “Lee will sign here for a discount”

    ALL the reports from twitter and the players representatives has been the complete opposite.

    Lee and his agent are adamant about getting paid and Nate and his agent seem to be all about playing out the year at the QO..

  • IDunnoMyName

    Honestly, having Nate on the roster is a no lose situation. If he continues to be an elite 6th man, he doesn’t really clog up minutes at the 1 or 2. What, will he rob minutes from Larry Hughes? Morris Almond? Toney Douglas? I like the prospects of Almond and Douglas as much as the next pie-in-the-sky Knicks fan, but Nate has produced. The problem has always been that when he is not scoring he is doing nothing, aside from inciting the crowd (good) or the opponent (bad).

    That being said, maybe something clicks with Nate. Maybe he finally plays some defense, gets along with his coach and looks to create a little more. Maybe he does become a draw for free agents – Kobe is on record as being a fan – and the Knicks can sign a max free agent and extend him regardless of the cap because they have his Bird rights. Then again, maybe none of this happens, he loses some minutes to make room for an emerging talent (hopefully Douglas or Almond) and he becomes trade bait at the deadline. I don’t see the down side.

  • the prophet

    can tommy dee ban this moron from writing posts for the next couple of weeks. toney douglas is a no name bum that cannot handle the nba yet. you talk about nate being a good scorer on a bad team but thats what sessions is. nobody outside of milwaukee knows who ramon sessions is but ben koplelman has a hard-on for a guy nobody else has even made an offer to.

    Lee – avg player
    ramon sessions – who?
    Nate – above avg player, top 5 6th man in the league

  • NashWonder

    I agree 150%. I think people forget how well Duhon played before wearing out. Remember he had to play 40+ a night for a big chunk of the season. If you bring a serviceable pg to go along side him that is less expensive than Sessions at full mle, then how bad is that? Don’t sign Nate to an extension, period!

  • Its The Kid

    No the difference is they express opinion as fact… When it comes to Nate, and make up pie in the sky scenarios when it comes to Lee… It is biased… They dont say “I personally believe”… They say we all know… And we dont… I just disputed the claim, thats all… Only things I stated as fact are well documented… I said “could” and “possible” for everything else… And as far as it being their blog, I disagree its a blog for Knick fans, and if it wasnt for people like you and I discussing our opinions the Ben and Tommy blog wouldnt last very long…

  • Its The Kid

    Yeah, I forgot the “Lee will sign here for a discount”…. One of my personal favorites as well.

    Lee and his agent have been speaking to every media outlet they can, all summer…Instead of keeping things in house…

    While Nate and his agent havent said a thing…

  • Ben Kopelman

    “Maybe he is the point guard of the future. Maybe he is a Jerome James. But what he gives the Knicks is a chance to build for the future.”

    my hard ons are stronger than that, friend…

    and maybe douglas is a bum. i do not claim to know otherwise. and i like nate, just not at the QO. if the knicks like him enough for this season, i want to see them extend him further right now, and not after his stock has risen abck to what it was at the midpoint of next year…

  • NashWonder

    I agree about Sessions, but Nate can NOT be signed for more than what you would give Sessions. I’m not a big Nate fan and I personally wouldn’t sign him long term, but as long as you wear blue, orange and black I’m a ride with you. If they do re-sign Nate it better be for MLE money or less. All this talk about Nate getting better is not the way I see it playing out. How great will Nate be when he is only seeing 5-7 shots a game on a team with true bonafide scorers? Whoever said He is the next Jason Terry is crazy!

  • joetheknick

    I fully agree that Nate does want to get paid and Lee will not sign at a discount nor should he. Nate’s wanting to play in NY speaks volumes for Nat. I believe he knows his strengths and his weaknesses and believes this coming years progress will lead to some serious NBA money. Lee is the one who has bought into all the hype about himsef. If Lee really believes he is that complete player worth 12M, I think he needs to be traded. If he, like Nate, realizes he is a work in progress, he should stay. This team is not ready for prime time yet. Much work to be done.

  • jpres

    I disagree. First, adding Nate at a minimal salary gives the Knicks an extra trade piece at the trade deadline who could add to a contending team if the Knicks are out of the race, either for a draft pick or even possibly unloading Curry/Jeffries if either impresses mid-season. Also, signing a guy like Andre Miller to a one year deal is the best possible move because then we retain his “Bird” rights. Thus, we sign 2 players (Lebron/Amare, Lebron/Bosh), then able to resign Andre Miller because of his Bird rights. No reason to throw money away on Sessions to try and rebuild for the future now, further limiting our free agent options. Be patient. It seems you forgot about the 90s run where the Knicks never won a championship. Sessions isn’t winning a championship. Getting Lebron is not the final piece of a championship team, he is the first piece. If he wants to be in NY, he’ll come no matter what, not based on the team we have at the time.

  • joetheknick

    Ben: At this stage of the Knicks rebuilding, I do not buy into this one year rental idea. Where I think you are wrong is to characterize Nate Robinson as a one year rental. If makes the progress, I think he will, he could be around for a long time. Additionally, if Andre Miller signs a one year deal, I won’t consider him a one year rental if he proves be a big improvement to the team. Miller could be playing for the next three or more years. The only one rentals are expiring contracts in trades for Curry and Jefries.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Hey.. eeveryone wants to “get paid” . Whether you are a blogger or pro baller or any occupation.

    The difference is whether they will accept less to stay in the media capital of the world where they profess to “love the environment”/

    We were sold this bag of goods by beat writers and bloggers alike that Nate would walk for 10 cents more and Lee was looking to make a quick deal for a big discount.

    Simply not the case. As Kid said, it was written like scripture not opinion and it needs to be called on.

    Lets all call a spade a spade and separate fact from opinion from speculation.

  • asumets

    I don’t like the idea, but I like the way you are thinking. We need to get creative here folks and as outrageous as this option may sound…it is still an option.

    My feeling is Donnie and Mike D give Curry as many minutes he can handle to show his skills so they can move him, just like Zach Randolph

  • impereal

    Check the stats Nashwonder…Jason Terry is good, but his numbers look a lot like what Nate’s will look like in 6-8 years…with playing time of course…and as I recall Atlanta wasn’t the greatest team with Terry starting and running the point just like Kryptonateit wasn’t until he went to Dallas where Terry began to win games…I think their careers with be very similar…Nate might have a slight edge due to his athleticism .

  • Kid Tarheel

    I don’t think anyone is forgetting about Duhon. He played well last year. Having both players would make that position a position of strength. One starts and the other supplements. Given the fact that Duhon is a good shooter and defender, it is not out of the realm of possibility to have both on the floor at the same time. I find it a bit irresponsible to assume those who want sessions simply hate Duhon. Its just not the case.

    As for Robinson, I would rather sign him for a long contract, but he may not want to agree to our terms. I think having him on our team makes us a better team. I think it gives us more options in the future as well. We would still be able to s and t with him next year. Also, he provides injury insurance in case Hughes and/ or any of the pgs get hurt. Also, there is a chance that he makes another leap as a player. The kid can shoot and he can get to the hoop. If he can finally realize that that its not all about him, perhaps he could be the perfect 6th man. All in all, there is no reason to let him walk for nothing. Lets play this thing out

  • Mucha

    David Lee was my favorite Knick two season ago but I’ve been really disappointed by his attitude on the court. I understand that he wants to get paid but this “Lee will sign here for a discount” argument has always been a joke (which is not Lee’s fault). Lee knows what Donnie Walsh’s plan is, either he wants to get paid or he wants to be Knick – why does he keep saying that he’s “disappointed”? Ridiculous.

  • Senor A. Boy

    Additionally, this “Ben” character is very ugly.

  • evile55

    Is getting Lebron a sure thing? Has he come out 100% and said he will sign with NYK? or does Walsh and Stern know something we don’t? I say forget him and sign Sessions. Sign Lee. the team will look A LOT better now as it will for the future. Sessions, Hughes, Jeffries, Harrington and Lee are a solid starting point for the team. Danillo and Chandler will progress this season. Darko is a nice compliment off the bench. Hill and Douglas aren’t ready and this should give them a chance to grow. Nate is exciting to watch. This affects 2010, so what. There’s a shot at getting at least one top FA and in 2011 they can get another. What the Celtics did by getting KG and Ray Ray is rare. the Lakers built that team, added Pau and it still took them two years to win a championship. The Knicks shoul set a solid base of youth first to make the team interesting. Plus they’ll have a better shot at moving Curry and Jeffries in 2010. Walsh is the king ot taking it slow. this is perfect for him and for the fans.

  • gordons18

    yup, Nate and Terry is actually a perfect comparison. ATL was terrible when they had Terry, his stock was down back then just like Nate’s is now. I think Nate is going to be better than Terry because he’s got the same type of game except much more athletic, stronger, and his ability to finish around the basket is much better.

    Bring back N8 the Gr8!

  • Qaspec

    I wanted to reply to this the other day but I was at work. The “idea” that you brought up would not work because it would not be allowed under the current collective bargaining agreement for 2 reasons:

    1) Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract.

    2) Contracts cannot be renegotiated downward (players can’t take a “pay cut” in order to create salary cap room for the team) or to contain fewer seasons.

    If teams were allowed to do this then teams would never run into the luxury but on the same end bad contracts would never die.