Will Sessions be a Knick October 1st?

I say get Nate & Lee out of the way 1st, hopefully one year contracts

Then we should throw the 3-4 year 4m deal to Sessions

With Nate, Lee, Duhon, Hughes, Harrington, Darko, and Mobley as expiring contracts…im sure someone wouldnt mind taking one of those guys…along with Jeffries and/or Curry to free up some cap…so we’d still have enough for 2010

And how about this for the sake of an argument:

Wizards Get: Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries

Knicks Get: Mike James, Mike Miller

I’d do that for both sides…how ’bout you?

Tommy, I was under the impression that once a team makes a qualifying offer, then the player either plays for that offer or signs an offer sheet with another team, giving the player’s team a chance to match?

If the player refuses to play for that qualifying offer (without gaining an offer sheet), then the team owns the players rights in perpetuity. At least that’s how I understood it, and why restricted free agency is not really free agency.

Do I have that wrong?

Then why does the “offer” expire on October 1st?

Still searching and again, looking for precedence…

The offer does expire and the team that holds the players rights can lower the offer to whatever they want. So if you let the QO expire, you get minimum salary unless another team signs you, which the original team still has 7 days to match. October 1st will be a big deadline for players-don’t have anything better then you need to take the QO.

Why hasn’t anyone asked whether the Knicks could sign Sessions to a 2 year deal starting at 4million and the 2nd year unguaranteed? This would meet the RFA requirement of at least 2 years and give Walsh the ability to get the cap space back if he needs it…..WHY DOESN”T ANYONE TALK ABOUT THIS??!?!?

The Wizards have no reason to trade Mike Miller….he is an asset to help the team win, not just an expiring contract. Hughes and Jefferies won’t help as much as Miller will…..

So the team that signs the player, in this case the knicks, still has to do so for more than 1 year?

In other words although his Q offer expires, he’s still restricted after Oct 1?

I’m assuming it’s because the rules require 2 guaranteed years, not just 2 years. But that wouldn’t help us because if we get sessions it will be because we want him as a cheap young piece moving forward. He’s not a 1-year rental type of player. I mean, he won’t even be our starter right away. Signing sessions is like signing a draft pick (the same price too). You’re drafting him for the future.

Where did you get your information the 2nd year has to be guaranteed? I’m not saying you are lying….I really want this clarified. I hope the 2nd year doesnt have to be guaranteed because if that is the case we can sign him knowing we can get the cap space back if needed.

Ihave to agree 100% Jeff, Sessions is not a 1 year rental player, hes part of your future. Great post

Yes, from what I understand he will still be restricted after October 1st. The Bucks could then lower the 1million qualifying offer to minimum salary and still hold his restrictive rights. I do not know if other teams would still have to offer a 2-year deal at that point. I hope they don’t….because the Knicks could wait until after October 1st and then offer full MLE for 1 year to get him away from the Bucks and then let him be unrestricted after 2009.

That said, I highly doubt the loophole we are hoping for is there…..but Walsh should realize 3.68 million in 2010 for Sessions would be a steal. He could even be a trade chip to clear out Jefferies or Curry if he is as good as I (and many, many others) think he is.

I completely expect Sessions to start right away for the Knicks….we aren’t signing him to back-up Duhon. Duhon is a below average starter or above average back-up. Sessions has put up good numbers as a starter in Milwaukee and would start day 1 if he came to NY.

First of all u start sessions at 3mil no more
I like sessions but he hasn’t proven anything to throw money at him.
Yes I know what he can become until that it starts at 3 mill

D.lee an
Nate are goners
They most likely going to play 50 games for the knicks then get traded.

Duhon-trade him also or let him come off the books
Dunhon isn’t even a back up in DANPHONYZ system.

ONCE AGAIN
BRING IN IVERSON FOR 1YEAR.

LMAO AT HE ISN’T GOOD FOR THIS CORE.
GOT SOME COMEDIANS ON THE NET THAT SWEAR THEY KNOW THE FUTURE…

Sessions must thing he is really good. Why would he sign for 2 years at 3 or 4 million when he can play for the qualifying offer and then do a Ben Gordon and sign for 5 years at 55 million. Nothing against the Knicks, its just economics. if Isiah were around he would have given Sessions whatever he wanted. I guess this is what rebuilding is all about.

Biggie: Iverson is looking better and better. How about Brevin Knight or Jacque Vaughn as one year rentals to help mentor our young players? Do you think Iverson could do that??

The problem is he wont put up numbers to justify a 5yr/55mil contract playing for the Bucks. With Jennings around and clearly the future there, he wouldnt get the minutes and numbers he would get as a Knick. His ceiling after playing in Milwaukee is MLE after next season….and he would STILL be restricted by the Bucks if he signs the QO. Best financial offer would probably a Knicks deal for 2 years…hit free agency with those stats and he will get paid.

It wouldn’t be beneficial to give Sessions a one year deal. Give the kid 4 or 5 million long-term. Sessions value will only rise in Mike’s system. What will happen is his numbers will go through the roof and he will be worth way more than 5 million and we are obviousally going to want to keep him and will pay him alot more than the 4 or 5 we can pay him now. Sessions is the real deal. Bring this kid to MSG. My grammar is horrible, but you get the point.

Yup

Hey. Awesome new website where you can win Knicks tickets all season long. No purchase necessary. winknickstix.com
Check it out!!

I think this is the best move….but 2nd best move is short term deal. The best teams sign future stars to long-term deals ahead of time and get those players below market value. Evan Longoria got a 6yr/17mil deal at the beginning of last year…absolute steal. Devin Harris got his long-term deal before he blew up….and now he is worth alot more than what the Nets are paying him. The problem is Walsh doesn’t want to give up 2010 cap space, which in turn could mean no LeBron….give Sessions the deal and then trade him if you need the cap space for LeBron. At his salary he should be very easy to trade.

This sounds like Isiah talk to me. If Sessions is not the real deal and is not so tradeable we are back where we started? Let us stay on plan for cap space. Bring on a 1 year back up PG. The whole team needs to improve. Sessions is not going to make a difference all by himself. Look at Milwaukee’s record last year. I know Michael Redd could not play but that is what happens.

Well, he also didnt have Bogut either….he kept the Bucks in games. He wouldnt require the full MLE so he wouldnt be a Jefferies or Curry situation….his contract would be moveable. Not Isiah talking if he is making 4 million a year.

Sessions did more last year than Jefferies or Jerome James ever did.

When has A.I. ever shown he’s a team player and a mentor to his younger teammates?

“Practice? We talking about practice?”

And Duhon was a very good starting PG until D’Antoni couldn’t trust anyone else to run the point and Duhon broke down from overuse.

If Sessions comes to the Knicks he will not be the starting PG this season.

He’ll backup Duhon with T Douglas third off the bench.

My guess is:

Everyone is waiting to see if Knicks can move either Curry or Jeffries by October 1st. If Knicks can move either (most likely Jeffries), they’ll give Ramon a two year deal. If not, they won’t.

Just a guess. But that’s why everyone’s sort of just waiting…….

Also, I see Knicks committing to Ramon for THREE years, not TWO. This gives Knicks his Bird Rights and can then resign him for whatever they want. And by that time, Knicks will be well over the cap.

From NBA Salary Cap FAQ:

“A qualifying offer cannot be accepted after March 1. Teams may place a shorter time limit on their qualifying offer, specifying any date between October 1 and March 1 by which it must be accepted. If the deadline passes and the qualifying offer is neither withdrawn nor accepted, then the player continues to be a restricted free agent. The team and player are also still free to negotiate a new contract after the qualifying offer ends — the deadline only affects the player’s ability to accept the qualifying offer. ”

He’s still restricted. Bucks can still match any offer made by anyone else and the offer must be for two years. Nothing changes.

C’mon Tommy, this is basic stuff.

I wish you were right. The last thing I read was that Sessions demanded the MLE. I thing the 4 million max is pure speculation. If this kid thinks he is the real deal, why take less. He sees Ben Gordon and he also knows the Devin Harris story. I like Sessions. He is not Jeffries or James. But what if he never develops a shot from the perimeter? Then what?

REALGM reporting Clippers make offer to carlos arroyo … Sessions’ options slowly fading

I gues Sessions options are be the starting point guard for the Knicks and be a star or go back to Bucks and share time with a few other guys. hopefully he thinks about it and takes less or we will just have to sign Iverson

I hope so too…..he is out of options and needs to take the best deal available and the Knicks are the best deal. No need to give him MLE….but the restricted free agent rules means at least 2 years….but does the 2nd year need to be guaranteed? That is the million(s) dollar question……

giving sessions a one year deal wont do anything to help this organization. he will go up in value and then well have to pay him big money when we can just sign him now for cheap. nj is reaping the benefits of deven harris and i think that a similar scenario can happen with us and ramon. sign this kid. if you sign him you have five young studs, not including dlee nate and even darko. you got the veteran backup in duhon and you got al buckets, who i think can be a bigtime leader on this team next year and he assume a leadership role…. big al fan here. ramon sessions is a BEAST. the bucks announcers go crazy over him and michael redd cant say enough good things about him. this would be a steal signing him for 4 or 5 million. Sign Sessions, not to one year it would not be beneficial we would just have to pay him alot in future, but to a longterm deal.

how does this sound like isiah! the plan is to SIGN lebron isnt it????? Try signing lebron when you have no pg of the future…. not very enticing when cavs have Mooooo williams. Sessions is a beast, and will add to our young core. lebron isnt coming here just for the city we need to be able to show him we can compete. i def agree with parker if it is one year or no deal i would rather have him for 1 year but it doesnt make sense bc his value will only go up.

No way the Wizards do that. However, I feel they would be the perfect team for David Lee. Go small with Arenas, Foye/Miller, Butler, Jamison, Lee or go big with Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Lee, Haywood. With David Lee, that would be a really versatile good team, that would still be really good, even if one of their injury prone stars went down.

I don’t understand this at all…..the Knicks have looked at Kidd, Miller, Tinsley, White Chocolate, and Sessions because they want a back-up for Duhon? Thats absurd!

Duhon is what he is-below average starter or above average back-up.

I would bet money that if the Knicks sign Sessions he starts from day 1. D’Antoni wants Sessions alot-Walsh doesnt want to give up cap space. That has been said many times.

I agree with you dino, if we sign Sessions make it for at least 3-5 years

Who would we get for D.Lee? would it still be Mike james and Miller? if thats the case i would rather keep Lee until the trade deadline we are sure to get a better deal for him then

Thanks a lot i just entered my name for free tixx

i am still very concerned if we make a low ball offer the bucks will match…. they could match and trade him for another need…….

I think we have to offer 4 million at least the first year just to make sure the bucks dont match

Yeah couldn’t find it as i was posting. then went to dinner.

thanks for setting me straight….

Forget Allan Iverson.
He is not coming to New York.

M Dantoni and D Walsh should not bring him to New York.

I agree with ja.

Additionally, the NBA wouldn’t allow it. Miller and James’ contract would equal about 16.5M. If Lee signed for, let’s say, $8M. His contract would be worth $4M. Add Jeffries 6.5M and you only have 10.5M trading for 16M. That’s a no-go.

Substitute Curry for either JJ or DL and you have a salary match, but you just lost your phone connection to DC (permanently!).

There seems to be a piece missing here.

If true, then the only relevance a QO has is that if offered, a player has a fall back position. If a team can rescind the offer at any time, there’s no fallback position anyway. HUH?

Under this scenario, a player is a restricted free agent, period…no QO necessary.

Am I missing something?

This talk about the Knix needing Sessions as if he will be a big time point guard is coming from wild desperation. The guy is mediocre, not one wants him, and the Knix don’t need him. Duhon can do a better or equal job, Sessions would make no difference if he started all year, and Donny knows that if the Knix suck again this year they can draft an equal pt guard in the 2nd round. Donny will be patient and not give Sessions millions because he is a nobody and a pt guard on a serious Knick team needs to be a real star.

DTR

Lol…. Sessions, a nobody???? Is that a joke???? Kids a beast. You clearly have never watched him play and know nothing about him. How can you call Ramon Sessions a nobody? Chris Duhon is a good pg but is better suited as a back. No offense to duhon but he isnt our pg of future… Ramon Sessions hopefully will be because the kid is talented.

Sessions is a nobody? We can get an equally talented point guard in the 2nd round next year? How many 2nd round PGs are even boarderline starters? How many are capable of 40+ points and 20+ assists?

Knicks need to offer 3 years to Sessions:

2009 $4 million
2010 $3.6 million
2011 $4 million

That should be enough to scare away the Bucks and make Sessions happy, keeping 2010 the lowest yearly salary. Let’s face it, Knicks don’t have a PG on board for 2010 anyway so they’ll need SOMEBODY. I think 3.6 for a starting PG is pretty good.

After 2011, Knicks will have his Bird Rights and then can resign him for whatever they want if they choose.

If Sessions is a bust, a 3 year contract isn’t worst thing in the world.

If we do not bring in Sessions, Donnie Walsh failed big time this off-season. Sessions is the pg of the future we desperately need. I know he will be a Knick but it is just frustrating to wait soooo long…. patience is a virtue and i know donnie will get it done. the garden is going to explode with sessions dishing to Gallo and Gallo knocking down threes.

if Ramon is playing the waiting game, I hope he’ll wait enough for us to realize that Tony Douglas may have a higher ceiling than him !

Let him play in Milwaulkee, we’ll see how many Jennings’ minutes he can take. He’ll probably be cheaper next season !

I just heard that Minny is going to offer Sessions a 4 year deal while they wait for Rubio. $3 mil per for 4 yrs but only guaranteed for 2

If thats true ….. say bye bye

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/61432/20090904/wolves_and_sessions_near_offer_sheet/

BiggieLittle,

Got your crystal ball working overtime tonight, huh. While your gazing into the future, can you tell me who will be on this team come February? Will LeBron play the 3 or 4 for D’Antoni? Will THE PLAN work?

I’m an impatient man and can’t wait for the future to reveal itself.

jg1170,

Agree with you except that I would substitute “Duhan was an above average pg” for “a very good” one. Duhon did wear down because D felt that there was too big a drop off from Duhon to anyone else, so he overused Duhon. He proved he could run D’s offense efficiently, and, most importantly, could hit open threes. He also proved that he is not a 40-minute-man.

I’m not sure whether Sessions or Duhan will be the starter come December.

Parkerstrong,

You’re right! You don’t understand.

Donnie only seriously looked at Kidd and Sessions. White Chocolate was a no lose situation. DW had exclusive rights so he did his job diligently. He didn’t buy, did he? The other two were just check-outs. He would probably call any point guard on the market not named Marbury to see what they were asking. See, he isn’t inactive. Just hasn’t found much to buy.

Kidd would have been the starter, Duhon the backup. At the money he is willing to pay RS, there is no reason to believe he is not considering him as a solid back-up.

Stop relying on player’s twitter accounts, and reporters who quote players twitter accounts as fact, for news. That must be what’s confusing you.

You say “Walsh doesn’t want to give up cap space.” DW has already proved you wrong on that. He offered a 3 year contract to Kidd, then a 3 year option to Hill, without hesitation. He pursued an 18-year-old kid from spain who hasn’t played a game in the NBA, and would have commanded a starting salary of about 3.25 for 2009 and more for 2010. So Donnie told you he is not unwilling to spend cap space on what he believes is serious potential either.

What Donnie most likely is telling us is that he doesn’t see Sessions as a probable starting point guard of the future, at least not a good one. If he did, 4M per would not cause him to risk losing a piece of the core. Young core players, along with his franchise player, is exactly what he is looking to spend his cap space on. So, in all likelihood, he envisions Ramon as a possible starting pg, no more. He will pay him accordingly or let him walk.

I would take your bet in a second if you were my bookie. I don’t have a bookie, but I will keep an eye on Craigslist under bookies and, if your name appears, I will call.

I don’t think his numbers will justify a 5yr/20M contract playing in Milwaukee. Agree about the rest. He not only will be playing behind Jennings, if they can’t get rid of Ridnour (he started over RS when he wasn’t injured), he too will cut into Sessions minutes.

Knicks are his best opportunity. I’m not sure he makes more than the MLE in 2 years regardless.

Again, Donnie is not afraid to spend cap money for the right player. He offered it to Kidd and Hill. Was willing to pay rubio over 3M and probably over 3.5 in 2010.

Obviously DW doesn’t see the beast in Sessions that you do. Nor does he see the next Devin Harris. If he did, he would spend the money. Young core players to compliment his star, are exactly what he is looking to spend cap space on. Not fringe players or even adequate players. The man is shopping for the future. In his opinion, Sessions doesn’t show enough promise to spend money better used in the future.

Why do you believe Sessions will thrive in Mike’s system. In D’s system, pgs have to make 3′s. RS has an awful outside shot. He’s young and may improve, but that shot UGLY. doesn’t have confidence in it either (rightly so). He can drive, has good court vision, speed, and can score in bunches. So can Nate. We already have him, but he isn’t in our long term plans either.

The only reason to give RS a one year contract is if Donnie doesn’t believe that RS is the answer but feels that there is enough doubt to give him a year’s audition. Rules would forbid one year contract any way, if I understand them correctly.

Joe,

Agree with you on most of your statements, but don’t go overboard. That’s my job here.

No one is talking Isiah talk. Just a difference of evaluation. If Isiah wanted Sessions, he would have offered 8.5M, then done a sign and trade with Milwaukee for Harrington’s expiring contract (even if nobody offered more than $3M).

Dino,

Lebron will come here if he likes the direction that DW is taking the organization in and he feels that he’s using resources wisely so that he can continually supply a new influx of talent to support LBJ. He already likes the coach. Sessions, even if I’m wrong in my assessment of him, will have limited influence on LBJ’s decision. Same for Mo.

If the Knicks are really sold on Sessions, 5M would not be an impediment. Even with Jeffries and Curry are still on the books, they have only 27M allocated for 2010, enough money to pay 5M and LeBron, even in worse case scenario (cap wise). Little extra though.

In 2011 they will have JJ’s and EC’s 18M off the books, less raises and reups. That will give them enough to sign a quality player or two. More if the NBA economy improves significantly.

My guess is that Donnie doesn’t view RS as a significant enough piece of the puzzle to warrant giving up the flexibility to sign, or trade for, a better piece than Ramon between now and the 2010 signing period.

I don’t know the answer to your question either. Logic would say that the second year should be guaranteed, or it’s just a 1 year contract with a team option for the second year. Unfortunately, many of these rules lack logic. So we’re back to square one.

Taking the QO from Bucks would be a disater for RS. He’d be buried in Milwaukee and his value will only decrease. He’d be in the same position as now, with less money offered and an extra year before he can cash in.

Settling for any price from the Knicks would at least give him the opportunity to prove he is valuable. If he does that, he will cash in in two years.

If his agent counsels Ramon to take the QO, he is doing the kid a disservice.

If he did that on a regular basis, he’d have more than the Knicks vying for his services. Mediocre players have been known to have a handful of great games in them. I don’t know if that fits Ramon, but I’ve seen nothing in his game that would lead me to think he’s a beast either, nor a dud either.

Douglas is a late first rounder. I don’t think that he will be better than Ramon this year, but 2010 is another story. Donnie was very high on him. Maybe Donnie knows something after all.

Why?

If he thinks he’s worth more than 3M, don’t you think he’d rather 3M per with the Knicks for 2 or 3 years, than 3M per with the wolves for 4?

What’s absurd is thinking a PG that’s never played a day in a system and has never played a full season in the NBA and a PG that can’t hit the 3 is gonna start the season as the starter. If they sign him of course its to start eventually but to say he’s your starter day 1? That is truly absurd.

He offered contracts to Kidd and Hill becuase he thought the cap was going to be arond 60 million…..when he found out it could bet 50 million he was glad he didnt sign Kill or Hill. He didnt start to talk to Sessions until after the cap was announced which in turn gave less room for Walsh to deal with.

He averaged 12.4ppg, 5.7apg, 3.4rpg and 1.1spg in only 28.6 minutes per game. Give him 36 minutes a game instead and those numbers jump up even more. Put him in the Knicks system, and he becomes a borderline all-star.

Just heard a rumor the T’Wolves are interested now….that sucks.

3 year contract at only 11.6 million is moveable….won’t be a Curry or Jefferies situation.

Well, the Knicks aren’t offering 3 million for 2-3 years. If this offer from the T’Wolves is legit it is the best offer out there for him. If I was Sessions I would also want a player option after two seasons because he will be underpaid.

Sessions will start at PG for the T’Wolves and play 30+ minutes a game there-he will also get time at SG with Flynn at PG just like he did with the Bucks.

I absolutely agree.

Players who are given inconsistent minutes are hard to peg. I’m not saying that Sessions is going to be a beast, but I also don’t think he’s a nobody. His name is in the Bucks record books after all, not a young franchise.

I think in relation to the amount of minutes he received, he’s put up enough big games to warrant a contract from us. I believe he’ll be a solid starter with the occasional big performance, which is pretty much in line with what he did last year. Not a nobody.