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So the questions have been posed towards Coach D’Antoni for well-over a week now in terms of the starting lineup and rotation, and there has been little-to-no clarity on either subject.
Other than assuming that Larry Hughes, who won’t be bought out, is on the outside looking in, as well as the developing Jordan Hill, it’s tough to tell what the combination will be.
Al Harrington wants to start. Heck, every player wants to start, but Al has earned it. That being said, it make make sense for him to bring it off the bench. For whatever reason, I haven’t been overly impressed with when both Harrington and David Lee are on the floor together and that’s something to keep an eye on.
I wouldn’t play Lee at the five. It’s asking far too much for him to guard bigs, and he’s better off playing with a space eating 5. But is it better for the system? As I mentioned last night on the show, I truly believe that Harrington is the prime 4 in this system, but it’s hard to then play Lee at the 5. But we’ll see.
So here’s my starting 5.
PG- Chris Duhon- No real shock here.
SG- Nate Robinson- Nate has earned the start with his unselfish, all around play. I think “energy” off the bench is overrated. Yes, Nate has defensive issues, but I’d put Nate on the PG and Duhon on the shooting guard.
SF- Wilson Chandler- Will needs space to be able to shoot and slash. He’s simply not a two, he’s a natural 3.
PF- David Lee- With Jeffries knocking down jumpers, Lee can play the 5 spot on offense and the 4 on defense.
C- Jared Jeffries- Sure, he’s been better offensively, but can he guard other team’s 5s? Not sure, but you know he’ll try.
Rotation for the first 12-18 minutes-
Sub Harrington for Lee
Sub Douglas for Duhon
Sub Gallinari for Chandler
Sub Milicic for Jeffries
Skinny: Milicic, Gallinari and Douglas form an excellent second team defense so the hope is twofold. First, the starting team can establish itself offensively, and second that Gallinari and Harrington are on so that they can sustain a bulk of the scoring while playing solid defense.
Then adjust from there. But I have to say, I agree with the coach that players should worry about who finishes more than who starts…
Who would you start?
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Boy Tommy– For someone who has ripped Nate consistently you have him as a potential 35 plus minute player in your rotation.
As much as I LOVE Nate and have been one of his most vocal supporters i just wont not start him nor play him 35 minutes a game.
I would start Harrington at the 3 and Chandler at the 2 with Lee at the 4 and JJ playing 5.
Completely ostracizing Hughes is frustrating because as much as I hate him he could be a decent starting player from a defensive standpoint.
I said on the other thread — Donnie’s reluctance to buy out players who are not in the plans is very frustrating. Send the player home at a 2 or 3 mil discount. Contacts have to melt off this cap at years end anyway.
So I would bring Douglas and Nate in for Duhon and Harrington moving Chandler to the three spot. and bring Gallo/ Millicic in for JJ and Lee.
So second unit is
Darko C
gallo PF
Chandler 3
Nate 2
Douglas 1
Not a bad idea, but the fact is Hughes can’t play worth a s*** and Chandler hasn’t proved yet he’s a decent enough SF (he’s a good, but has some way to go before he becomes a decent 2. I hope he’s ready to do it at some point during the season though). That’s why I agree with Nate being a starter. I actually do see Gallo at the 4, but not from the get go. He’s gotta get a bunch of minutes at the 3 first, get fit and stronger (a lot stronger and faster) and at the same time gain some confidence so he doesn’t just shoot 5 three pointers per game and exploits the rest of his skillset. Douglas and Nate make a greeat combination of energy and intensity on D along with Milicic, and at the same time he gives that inside presence that can be used (if D’antoni actually tries to use it as an alternative) on the offensive side.
Aside from that, what is done with Harrington and Lee will be up to our coach (IMO Al should start as a PF and Lee could come in for him).
Anyway… Just looking at the first 15 games… Ain’t gonna be a walk in the park.
Makes sense.
Your the most nuts I’ve seen all day you want to play passivenari at the 4 KG would eat him for lunch with tomato sauce.
It’s way more nuts to not have Lee in your starting 5 like you suggested. You want to remove our only interior scoring threat and our most efficient scorer from the starting lineup? I don’t care how deficient his defense is, Lee MUST start, especially if his18 ft jumper is finally coming along.
Then you want to lose Lee cant play defense on any 5 in the NBA if your so attached to a guy that you want him to start rather than come off the bench your not a Knick fan your a David Lee fan.
He has no 18ft jumper, be real you rather David taking 18footers than AL Harrington? He isnt a interior scoring threat he gets putbacks and layups off of PNR’s come on ppl pay attention to the games this is ridiculous.
I really think you’re not the one paying attention. Putbacks and finishing the PnR IS interior scoring. Just because he’s not Shaq and backing people down and slamming in their face DOES NOT mean Lee has no interior game. D’antoni ball doesn’t call for that from a big man. It calls for PnRs, screens, kick outs, second chances off offensive rebounds, and finishing off the transition. I’m not throwing praise at Lee, conversely it’s the fact that there is NO better alternative right now. Lee is the ONLY bigman on the roster who productively does the aforementioned with any sort of consistency.
Another thing you’re not paying attention towards. I never said anything about Lee taking outside jumpers over Harrington, you’re putting words in my mouth. If you have been watching the games, Lee has been hitting jumpers more consistently than Darko, a player who supposedly has an exterior shot.
Your stubborn denial of Lee’s offensive impact is the only thing that is ridiculous here.
“I don’t care how deficient his defense is”
You shoot yourself in the face with a comment like that.
You’re cherrypicking. That statement is predicated on the fact that we have no better alternative to Lee without cutting 15pts and 5 rebounds from our game.
Lee’s lack of defense is a necessary evil right now, because with it he brings a lot of offensive efficiency. If you take away scoring down low, our ability to penetrate is weakened because this allows opposing frontcourts to commit more to help defense. As a result, opposing perimeter defense is strengthen taking away our outside shot.
Not to mention, taking out Lee basically removes the PnR from our offense. This forces us to rely even more on chucking 3’s than we already do.
Basketball 101, Bart. Taking Lee out of the starting lineup, that’s what I call shooting yourself in the face.
Basketball 101??? Really
I guess Lee is the only one that can set a screen and roll to the basket, Darko can’t, Harrington can’t, Jefferies can’t David Lee is the only one on this team that can PNR ok.
I like what you said above hes not Shaq that means he can sit his no defense playing ass on the bench because hes not a threat inside and hes a bad defender.
“Lee is the ONLY bigman on the roster who productively does the aforementioned with any sort of consistency.”
Your quotes are GOLD
And to address it are you serious??? Harrington avg. 20ppg last year
I didn’t say you would rather Lee taking jumpers over Harrington I was asking, but if you want to keep Lee at the 4 spot its obvious that you do rather him taking jumpers because he can’t play the 5 and honestly he can’t play 4 either, thus he should be a backup period.
“I guess Lee is the only one that can set a screen and roll to the basket, Darko can’t, Harrington can’t, Jefferies can’t David Lee is the only one on this team that can PNR ok.”
Glad you agree! Darko can’t, Jeffries can’t, not against NBA defenders anway. They are poor finishers around the rim. Harrington is the only one you mentioned who could adequately finish a PnR, but he’s better suited for outside shooting and slashing, he’s not an interior scorer.
“I like what you said above hes not Shaq that means he can sit his no defense playing ass on the bench because hes not a threat inside and hes a bad defender.”
Talk about a golden quote! Perhaps you missed the lackluster failures of the Shaq experiement when he played for D’antoni. Back-to-the-basket, post-up, half-court set players like Shaq don’t work within MD’s system. But thanks for proving my point yet again.
““Lee is the ONLY bigman on the roster who productively does the aforementioned with any sort of consistency.”
Your quotes are GOLD
And to address it are you serious??? Harrington avg. 20ppg last year ”
Ok. Now I’m seriously starting to doubt that you watched any Knick games last year. Harrington scored his points off getting ahead in transition, 3 pointers and drives, not PnR’s and offensive rebounds. Harrington is there to spread the floor, not score in the paint. Simple stuff here.
“I didn’t say you would rather Lee taking jumpers over Harrington I was asking, but if you want to keep Lee at the 4 spot its obvious that you do rather him taking jumpers because he can’t play the 5 and honestly he can’t play 4 either, thus he should be a backup period.”
I never said I would put Lee at the 4, I said putting Lee at the 4 is less nuts than taking him out of our starting lineup altogether. I would have Lee at the 5, Harrington or Jeffries at the 4 depending on the size of the team.
Lee can absolutely play the 5 in D’antoni’s system. Defending the 5 is different. Lee is a crappy defender, we know, but you’re not looking at both sides of the ball. Improve help defense and deny passes down low and you lessen the impact of Lee’s defensive deficiencies. Take Lee out of the starting lineup and you either have either Nate/Al dominating the ball and the whole team chucking up 3’s.
I’m as disappointed about Lee’s defense as anyone else, but you take out Lee and you eradicate a majority of our high percentage shots. That is something you don’t want. Again, Basketball 101.
You can’t deny that we got back in the game with Lee on the bench.
You can’t deny we won with Lee starting!
Big-
When have I ever knocked nate’s skills on the court?
and no, he’s not a 35 min a night player, doesn’t say that anywhere.
he’s 27-30…
i would use the same starting line up but nate cant start againts every team because of match ups but i think if we do try and trade hughes or he gets his shot back ect. I think he can come and play some spot min at the 2 and start some days. I rather us trade him for a player like Morris Almonds( i dont think i would do a strait up hughes almonds trade) but if the magic drop him for some odd reason i think coach d should take a look at him because he could be a solid SG off the bench(maybe even a starter. I can dream he can start and solve our SG prob right?)
We have the worst roster in the NBA. It’s sooo depressing.
Amazing how a 32 win team is going to rot their 8th pick in the Draft on the bench. This franchise just loves to torture it’s fans.
ROTFL
I agree.
Walsh will never live this pick down. The Knicks are no better than a ‘NBDL’ team right now. The people who are calling the shots now still don’t have a clue.
We play in a system so why don’t we begin the game using our system that sends Lee to the bench :
PG – Chris Duhon
SG – Nate Robinson
SF – Wilson Chandler
PF – AL Harrington
C – Jared Jefferies
For me Nate has earned a starting spot David Lee can get rebounds off the bench people talk as if, the team cant rebound unless Lee is on the floor Nate is a good rebounder Wilson is a good rebounder we can live if Lee comes off the bench.
I’m optimistic and being a Knicks fan, God knows I’m patient, but watching the old ‘94 Knicks brings me back to a good place
Nice job, Tommy!
Oh yeah and I would start…
C-Milicic
PF-Lee
SF-Gallinari
SG-Chandler
PG-Robinson
and then off the bench Duhon, Hill, Douglas, etc…
The Knicks have to showcase some of their young players in order to be attractive and have enough veterans in the starting line-up to be competitive. It’s a complex situation. But – clearly – Al Harrington HAS to be a starter because 1. he’s our best player 2. he’s the most professional player 3. he actually has playoff experience.
I think the best starting 5 would be :
Duhon
Robinson
Harrington
Lee
Hill
Nate Robinson is clearly a game-changer and he’s relatively young – he meets both criteria. I think he DESERVES to be in the starting line-up. Duhon-Robinson is a small backcourt, but it wouldn’t be a major problem with a big froncourt (6′9 6′9 6′10). Lee plays PF and Hill starts because the Knicks can’t afford to have two lottery picks sitting on the bench (and obviously Gallo doesn’t fit in this line-up). I think there’s a “great” balance in this unit.
If not, I’d like to see :
Duhon
Chandler
Gallinari
Harrington
Lee
The first lineup is laughable and the we used the second one against the Celtics minus Nate and we lost. Lee is a rotation crippler you cant play him at 5 and you can’t play him at 4 thats why he should come off the bench. That way he doesn’t completely destroy what your trying to do offensively / defensively.
In every situation you can see that because of Lee the rotation is off balance he can’t score from the 4 spot in this system because he can’t shoot and as a 5 he get killed by centers. In this system Lee should back up AL and Darko should backup/start for Jefferies once he learns the offense.
Mike D is doing what BT said last night hes playing Lee because hes a “good player” not because he fits so the mindset is Lee can play put him on the court when its having the opposite affect of what you would want, Lee in the starting lineup hurts this team more than helps it.
tommy- i agree w/ most of your assesment but i do believe that Nate is better served off the bench but at the same time it has become obvious that while Chandler has gotten better he is not a 2!! And there NO WAY HUGHES STARTS @ THE 2!!! i don’t even think he should be in the rotation. I also believe that Gallo is just not ready to start…so my line up would be…
DUHON
NATE (even though he’s better off the bench)
CHANDLER
LEE
JEFFRIES
w/ Douglas, Al, Darko, & Gallo off the bench and J.Hill getting spot min.
As long as Jeffries shooting continues to improve I’m liking him in the starting 5. He also starts with a lot of energy.
I think Nate is best served off the bench but I can’t really blame D’antoni for rewarding his fantastic defense as of late. He, too brings an enormous amount of energy to the beginning of the game and helps tire the opposing starters.
Perhaps have Nate also play with the second unit and bring in Hughes or move Chandler to the 2 a little later.
So for me it’s:
Duhon
Nate
Harrington
Lee
Jeffries
Duhon
Nate
Chandler
Lee
Jeffries
I don’t really like the flow of the game when Harrington starts with the rest of them. He seems to take away from the chemistry.
Nate seems to be attempting to grow as a player, more so than he has ever done before, and since he has the potential of a superstar, I say we at least start of the season giving him a chance to prove he can ‘mature’ and be consistent.
Plus, I love Galo, Darko, and Douglas in the second unit but they need a leader offensively (galo is just not that). harrington fits well and would really give some real balance to our team. I like the way Lee and Duhon and jeffries play together, it is controlled and intelligent. Assuming Nate keeps playing the right way and chandler can figure out how to blend in, that could turn into a very solid starting lineup if they play together for a while. If you put harrington out there, the combo of him and nate will just lead to bad organization on offense. Harrington just doesn’t seem to understand the flow of things, he’s only looking at the rim, even more than Nate does, IMO. Plus, we need someone with potent scoring ability off the bench, and since I have faith in Nate right now, i say we let it be harrington.
As for Hill, don’t get so angry just yet. He doesn’t have to be playing 30 minutes a night right away. He is a very raw player, you saw him playing and you know that from a coaches standpoint he doesn’t deserve to be at the top of the rotation yet, but it seems like he is a fast learner and i wouldn’t be surprised if his minutes have increased greatly by january. You have to be patient with him. We may have picked him 8th, but nobody ever said we were picking him to make a difference right away… Very few big men ever are, besides the top few picks.
Jeff,
I think that you nailed it!
Well thought out, well stated.
I was thinking of going with that lineup. I do agree that Harrington can disrupt flow in the starting lineup and he would fit the bill in terms of bench scoring. But I have a few concerns that lead me to chose Harrington over Chandler. Harrington has been actively trying to become the leader of this team, having him come off the bench could weaken his gravitas, or even worse, make him unhappy. Taking our leading scorer out of the lineup, this could disrupt flow more than anything.
I agree with pretty much everything else, though.
Why does no one have Darko as a starter? Hes our best defender taller than 6′8, hes the only one that can block shots consistently, and if we play him alongside Lee/Harrington we still have an offensive game down low…
I think a solid shot blocker is the best way to start a game..
Mine:
Duhon – Obvious
Nate – Undersized backcourt, but still can be effective
Al Harrington
David Lee
Darko Milicic
6th: Dont kill me, since Nate would be the starter, Wilson could also bring a spark off the bench
On a different note:
I am flying to Miami on the 28th to catch the season opener, but I haven’t been there in quite a long time.
Does anyone know the area near the arena, and if so, would you consider recommending a good place to eat.
I obviously trust my fellow Knick fans opinions!
You’re asking the right man Scottie!! This is my town…If you’re stayin downtown by the arena there is a plethra of places to eat in Bayfront Park (Bayside) right next to the arena. They got Chilli’s and places like that…There’s also Gloria Estefan’s place if you want Cuban food, its a little pricey but worth it…BAYFRONT PARK (BAYSIDE) IS YOUR BEST BET…I’LL SEE YOU AT THE GAME JUST LOOK FOR THE LUNATIC GOIN CRAZY WHILE WE’RE PUTTING A WHOOPIN ON THE HEAT!!!!
Thanks Moe!
Duhon / TD
Nate / Hughes
Chandler / Gallo
Lee / Harrington
Darko / Jeffries
Duhon is obvious
Nate . I think he is showing a more mature side to his game so far .
Chandler ….Gallo sure aint ready to start
Lee vs Harrington … Good question and Dilemma . I’m mixed about this . I feel they should both start but results are not backing that up. How does Harrington handle this ?
Darko needs confidence and starting him would at least be giving him a chance. There is no other 5 and with all that has been said about Darko by Walsh …its makes the most sense to give the kid a shot. Certainly not for offense.
20ppg last year best player on the team fits the system he should not be coming off the bench.
15ppg 10rebs Doesn’t fit the system doesn’t play defense started all last year and we saw how that went.
Darko should start too he doesn’t know the offense yet but when he gets it I would throw him in there right away.
That’s the point to discuss: Harrington vs Lee. One is your most effective player shooting wise and the other is the most effective in our interior game. Yet Lee isn’t a 4 in this system (doesn’t matter that his shot is improving) and we all know what happens when he plays at the 5. Harrington also has his downside: I tend to agree, as some posters mentioned, that he can often disrupt the flow of the game, but that’s fixable, and that’s when the coach has to come in. If Al starts hoggin’ the ball you need to get in his face and tell him to have some court vision or else (if I remember correctly big Al did mention he wanted to be more of a team player in an interview he gave to knicks.com). If somehow you can get around to fix Al’s disruption problem, I think the offensive production will be much better, as well as the team’s chemistry.
At the same time, if you think of a back up rotation of Douglas, Gallo, Lee and Jeffries, you got a lot of energy coming in, capable of scoring, and a player like JJ that gives, in his own way, leadership in the court.
i like that lineup…
No matter how you shuffle the hand, it plays the same.