Recap: Pacers 101 Knicks 89

LEE had 1 of his best games eva
20pts
19rebs
4ast
2stl
2blk.

Duhon is the worst PG in the NBA

I honestly feel he is hindering the development of Gallo & Will and is the main reason our offense struggles to get easy buckets. All he does is bring the ball over midcourt and that’s it.

Donnie has to actually wake up from his two year nap or actually hire a GM and trade for a PG

1. Duhon apparently didn’t want to play defense and his shot selection was terrible once again – but it’s all good, apparently it’s OK to laugh with the Knicks trailing by 6 in the 4th quarter! You’re a leader Duhon!

He’s a DISGRACE, seriously.

2. Why did Gallinari have to wait 8 minutes or something to play in the 4th quarter? What the hell was D’Antoni thinking? THIS IS CRAZY. I mean, CRAZY.

3. David Lee, it’s OK to take jumpers from long range in the 3rd quarter, but don’t do it down the stretch. I mean please.

4. Al Harrington… I like him but he needs to get his head checked. Seriously. Why does he have to force shots when he’s double-teamed? Why does he always have to dribble – knowing that he’ll automatically lose the ball???

No Murphy, No Hansbrough, No Dunleavy and a poor performance from Danny Granger… and the Knicks still! STILL! find a way to lose the game. Oh yeah, don’t forget to vote for Dahntay Jones and TJ Ford for the All-Star game.

This team is a disgrace. And Mucha starts ranting you know there’s a PROBLEM.

Lee played really well. Not in the 4th quarter though. But he played well.

Hey Tommy, I think you took for granted the fact that the Knicks are a better team than the Pacers. They are not. The Pacers have shotblocking and a PG. The Pacers won this game (the Knicks didn’t lose it, the Pacers won it) without Dunleavy, Murphy, and Granger who fouled out down the stretch. . . Duhon is horrible on both sides of the ball and is a career backup . . . With Harrington as the focal point this team will never go anywhere, he is just not smart with the ball at all . . . And where are all of the Gallo is the franchise and should be compared to Dirk fans now? As I and some others said and were chastised for, teams are focusing on Gallo’s shot he has to diversify his game if he wants to become more than a roll player. Still think this team will win 36 games because Donnie’s hand will be forced by the media/fans into making a trade to try to salvage the season. If he is stubborn and stands pat we could be looking at between 19-21 wins and a free agent who only cares about a check and not winning . . .This one was painful.

they folded in the 4th
missed free throws
they looked lost
an looked scared all in the 4th

Finally Tommy good to hear these comments from you. It is ok to be optimistic but at one point I was questioning whether you are a fan or a knick pr relations employee? The Duhon signing was bad from the get go. Harrington should be starting at the 4 and taking every single opponent to the basket. After a few buckets down low the 3 shot should follow. D’Antonis coaching skills are in serious question to say the least with the extended rest of Gallo. Speaking of the italian stallion, why is he not driving to the basket. I think that this season he has driven to the hole a grand total of five times. Seriously.

I know it’s still early during the season. I know walsh is not even thinking about a coaching change but what if LBJ or Wade don’t come??? Is there someone out there that can help this team turn it around???

I AM NOT A MIKE D’ANTONI FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*when

alston for duhon works
make it happen donnie

this ish pisses me off
there is deals out there make it happen
deals that won’t affect the 2010 plan
but if u can get a star u make it happen
atleast u know your gettin a star in a trade
2010 isn’t a sure thing..

Lets not go too crazy about Lee’s game tonight. The Pacers were missing their entire front court. The only thing that really impressed me was Lee actually attempting and succeeding in blocking shots. It still amazes me though that someone with Lee’s atheliticism just can’t block shots on a more consistent basis. I know blocking shots is about timing, anticipation and reflexes but he has that in every other aspect of his game.

Agreed, Completely.

Everything from the Pacers being better, through Gallo is not all that, till the FA remarks.

I for once, will not eat this bs notion of patience. We now have wasted two lottery picks on players that don’t help this team to win. And this year, DW slept through all free agency and the team is actually playing worse than last year.

And D’Antoni has his hands all over these crap performances over the last 5 games.

Make a trade for DJ Augustin (who’s still coming off the bench in Charlotte) or Jerryd Bayless (who’s not even playing in Portland) ASAP.

I think Gallo’s back is more hurt than they are letting on. Not only does he not drive to the hole he also doesn’t fight for rebounds in traffic. He was right there at one point with Lee fighting on on three with the Pacers for the ball and Gallo just turned around and ran back on defense. Just an outside observation but as someone with back issues I think he is avoiding taking big hits.

ME NEITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT A DANNI BOY FAN
NEVER WAS NEVER WILL

i been said that about gallo
gallo thought he back was good enuff
but he now knows that’s stopping him from being a good player

like i said b4 his back might never be good

goodluck gillanari

His effort is saved for the offensive end. He is quite capable of playing defense if he actually put his mind to it. That’s why I’m so hard on him I like mostly every other part of his game. If he got consistent with that jumper and truly hustled on defense he could start for me anytime. Even at Center.

People in these threads have even tried to convince themselves that Lee isn’t athletic (he was in the HS dunk contest AND WON! do you know what kind of dunkers are in that contest?) but defense is more about effort, not athleticism. He proved he can when he played good defense for about 90% of the Charlotte game and then reverted back to his old ways at the worst time (on an Augustine layup).

IMO, Duhon is stalling the development of Will & Gallo, basically the have to create their own shot and they can never get any easy buckets.

Interesting article from Chad Ford
http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/10335/botching-the-italian-jo

I never liked _’antoni, even from afar when he was on the Suns. You can’t win championships playing basketball like a video game. Shooting quick 3′s and not playing defense is a recipe for disaster in the playoffs. I said it when he was in Phoenix and I’ll say it again, Mike won’t ever win a championship in the NBA. Unless he develops a solid defensive scheme to go along with his gimmick offense.

I have to believe he is being used as a lure to get top FA’s to come play for him, but now that he has been exposed as a mediocre coach when he doesn’t have premier talent, playing for him may not hold the same allure.

We’ll see. Hopefully he gets it together, it’s probably to late to hire a defensive coordinator type as an assistant without looking incompetent.

well i guess we both know about danni boy
i said that alot of times also

an if they really think he will lure players
he will not the money will not him…

that’s the only reason top stars will come

Larry Hughes

Nate Robinson

Eddy Curry

for

Tracy Mcgrady

and get Bayless

Tommy,

This was not hard to see coming.

This may be a little too basic, but if you look at the stats of the average starting PG, SG, SF, PF and C in the league and compare them to the players the Knicks have starting at those positions, this is what you’ll find.

The Knicks have one above average player and 4 below average players starting.

David Lee is the only good player on the team right now.

I will grant you that Gallo show flashes of excellent shooting and play making. But in this snapshot in time he doesn’t fill out the stat sheet well enough to be considered an above average starter. He’s is a very good prospect that may be above average later in the season or next year.

Nate had above average stats last year, but he comes with so many other warts and flaws it’s hard to like him too much.

Harrington is the most overrated player on the team. He can score, but he can’t do anything else well compared to the typical starting PF. He’s a below average PF that plays more like a SF.

As I said before the season started, this is probably going to be a 25-30 win team. What will make it so painful is that we don’t have a #1 pick next year and drafted so poorly for this year. Douglas may have been a bargain, but he’s a backup and will probably never be a high level starter. Hill was a mediocre player in college and looks like he’s going to a mediocre pro.

It’s time to call a spade a spade.

Walsh inherited a mess and has done a good job straightening out the cap situation. But he hasn’t done a thing to make the team better and drafted terribly this year.

This is a lost year except for developing Gallo.

We should probably also throw cold water on the Chandler hype. I was high on him because of his athletic ability, but I think I was wrong. He doesn’t have any ball handling or play making skills and is not a very good outside shooter. He doesn’t seem to have a very high basketball IQ at all. Even if he improves his skills over the next couple of years, he’s still too small to be a PF and less skilled than Gallo as a SF. He’s certainly well below average right now. I think we should look to trade him for something we need or as part of a deal to get rid of Jeffries/Curry so we can bring in a player we need next year.

Chandler is coming off of offseason surgery. Him I’ll give a pass for the first half of the season. You can tell his wind and explosiveness just aren’t there. It’s hard to give Gallo the same pass because his back will probably be like this the rest of his career.

It’s pretty mind boggling how overrated Harrington is just because he scores well. He’s pathetic and incredibly overrated at this point.

I said it in the preseason and I think it is coming true. D’antoni is going away from his strength and preaching defense. So instead of going good on offense and awful on defense, they are now average on offense and a little bit better than awful on defense. Lee’s quote says it best. “”Our problems in this game started and ended on the offensive end,” Lee said. “We talk a lot about our defense, but our offense in the second half, for us to shoot under 40 percent isn’t a good sign.” Now, they are bad at everything. This is not looking good. I’d rather be 10th in offense and 30th in defense than 20th in offense and 25th in defense. That’s what they’re doing and its not gonna work.

I’m willing to give Chandler a pass for his lack of skill development since last year, but not for still looking like a deer caught in a headlight.
I think he simply lacks basketball intelligence or something like that. I ignored it last year because he was basically a rookie, but he’s the same now.

The thing that makes him worth trading is that IMHO, he’s NOT going to be better than Gallo at the SF position and will never be a good PF or SG. He lacks the size to be a good PF and the skills to be a good SG. So why not use him to dump a contract and bring in a good player next year or trade for a SG/PG now.

well, guess we signed up for 1-7 to start the season (1-4 now with Cavs, Bucks, and Jazz coming up) … These next 3 games are soooo ironic … the FA we won’t get on Friday (LBJ), the PG we could have taken on Saturday (BJ3), and the team with our lottery pick on Monday (Utah).

Plus, as an added bonus, that crazy nutty Knick fan may show up at the Cavs game Friday (Star-bury himself) … Hey it’s not all bad New Yorkers … looks like a Canyon of Heroes parade is on tap for Friday !

This was just a pitiful game. A horrible team effort all around. The difference in performance in comparison to the NO was huge. That’s a mentality issue, and the coach is the one that has to take care of keeping the players with their minds in the right place.
The W was for this team’s to take and they lost it in the second half for the mere fact that there was no passion on the floor. They didn’t want it enough. Harrington hogs way to much the ball and isolates himself from the rest of the team, interrupting whatever flow can be created. God knows Duhon can’t organize an offense worth a damn; Chandler’s still regaining his former strength after his injury (hence his game will not be what it was for a while, regardless of his shortcomings); and Hughes (who everybody made out to be the balance of this team) didn’t have the consistency he showed on his last two games, something a vet like him should bring every night. Consistency is all about effort and order, things that this team lacked seriously tonight.
Great part of this loss goes to bad coaching throughout game as well. For example, it was difficult to understand why Gallo took the bench for the greater part of the last quarter.
I think the lack of passion shown today and the effort demonstrated on monday will reflect on what this team’s disposition will be throughout the season: inconsistent.
There’s a dire need for a PG and DW needs to skip over Mike D on this one and take matters into his own hands this time.

I’m baffled at why D’antoni is becoming everyone’s scape goat. We have the worst roster. If anyone deserves the blunt of the blame, it’s Walsh.

Of course but his coaching has been weak so far.

Why did Gallinari sit 8 minutes on the bench in the 4th quarter.

They couldn’t make a play in the last 5 minutes.

I blame D’Antoni as well, his coaching was a lot better last year.

wow.. sounds familiar.

Gallo’s D really teetered off in the 2nd half. Maybe his back was bothering him. Chandler was doing much better defensively.

No one stepped up for us, like Hughes wasn’t hitting his shots (neither was Gallo really). That combined with the fact that Duhon loses all poise in the clutch and you have a recipe for a loss.

There are definitely some things I’d do differently, namely expanding the rotation and adding some real zone D to the mix. But I think people around here should put the pitchforks away. The fact is that on paper, we’re inferior to pretty much every other team. We have 20mil tied up in players who aren’t playing (Curry and Mobley) another $34mil in a supergroup lineup of underacheivers (Jeffries, Duhon, Darko, Hughes) and a lotto pick that is at least a season away from contributing. The Knicks of 09/10 are up sh*ts creek without a paddle or a raft. Imo, D’antoni’s high powered offense is the only thing keeping our head above water. I think the list of active coaches who would be doing better than D’antoni with this roster is very short.

I wonder how can this be blamed on Nate

this seems like the plan4 guys take the ball down court ,what ever side gallo is on the other 4 guys look the opposite way,driving into triple teams ,falling down or taking an off balance shot while gallo stands in the corner desperatley flailing his srms for attention.OK NEW RULE(IF YER ON THE KNICKS)before you shoot a three,first you have to see where gallo is .if he has a better shot than you,pass gallo the ball,you go sit down ,let gallo shoot

are you guys sure NATE didnt play today? it just seemed like he played tiday evryone was doing something stupid,all the plays were disorganized

i already have.,his spirit was making the whole tyeam dioganized

i finally understand why donnie walsh wanted to sign JASON KIDD.THE REST OF THE KNICKS ARE DUMB IN CRUNCH TIME AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO

I do too.

If his back is still bothering him then we’re really f*cked.

Gallo was 5 for 11 at one point (before his desperation treys at the end of the game), not Corey Brewer-esque.

Listen, I agree with you Circle – Donnie Walsh is the main culprit. But honestly our offense looks like a Jackson Pollock painting right now. It’s getting a little bit better but the 4th quarter against the Pacers was pathetic.

Yeah the Knicks never get easy buckets – that’s what you try to get when a player’s struggling with his jumpshot.

Wilson Chandler could be a stud – but he’s not aggressive enough to become one. Danny Granger didn’t play well yesterday but you could feel his presence. He’s always aggressive – Wilson Chandler is like Nas he desperately needs some Red Bull.

And he just has to understand he really has a nice midrange game. He should only shoot long jumpers when he’s open.

OK so :

- ANTHONY RANDOLPH is in Nellie’s doghouse once again.
- JERRYD BAYLESS is not playing with the Blazers.

Donnie Walsh NEEDS to make something happen.

I would deal Jordan Hill and Wilson Chandler for Anthony Randolph.

Duhon is exactly who he was last year. He is worth less when the pick and roll is gone and when he doesn’t have another guard to direct the team and share point duties with him. He is more effective playing the two, driving to the basket and shooting tres.

He was bad last year too, except it was hidden from some by the fact we had and lost our two major scorers. Wasn’t Duhon Walsh’s first major acquisition here. Anyone changing Donnie’s grade from an A?

The Point Guard Of Knick Information?
Cute.

Here we go…..

Its already started. We will not make the payoffs as this crew will win some and lose a bunch . Up and down.

Then the stark reality that the FA dream will start to set in . Why come to a losing team. I know NY is the mecca but its obvious that it will take more than $ to get what we need to move forward.

Things that must happen this year

PG

Duhon…. Back up PG. Cant run this team.

This in my opinion is paramount to have Mike D’s system be effective. Sessions would have ben nice .

SG

C

Donnie should seriously try some gambling here. He has to make some moves soon before we are to many games behind. We have no pick so its really important

I dont see Lebron coming . Wade also . Amare maybe.

Man we are at he bottom again.

Depressing

This was the worst loss. How do you lose that badly to a Pacers team which had no desire to win? You can’t let them in the game like that.

Good comments. Until the season started I tought most of us commentors agreed with you. The team was a work in progress. After 5 games all has changed. Most of us now want DW to change the roster. That means forget about getting a superstar for next season. That means get a few upgrades to make the team more respectable. Isn’t that what we have been doing for the past 8 years? Any thoughts on the wisdon of changing the plan now??

Indeed.

Not sure what you mean. You can uprgrade the roster without affecting 2010. We are not talking about trading for Zach Randolph and his monster salary but a small deal swapping expiring contracts or trading Mobley’s contract so another team can save some money this year. Something to make the roster more balanced.

See above I think there is a reason Chandler is settling for that shot.

And I’m going to forward this post so Nas can write some Ether for you.

I have to admit that I missed a big chunk of last season due to the fact that I had Directv and Dolan is a DTV hater, but I thought Duhon was ok based on his first half stats. Boy was I wrong! Duhon is terrible! I really believe even with the lackluster effort laid down in the second half of last night’s game that it could’ve still been won. This guy gave TJ Ford a wide open foul line jimmy to put them up 8 with 3 to play He took that ridiculous running layup/jumper thing right b4 that and missed horribly. He also did that in the first half as Mike Breen tried to justify it as a pass to D Lee cuz it hit off of the backboard. He basically gave up defending Augustin in the Charlotte game and let Al have to foul him in the end of that game. He is TOOOOOO Slow to break anybody down off the dribble. I think it def starts at point with this system but I DON’T think Sessions was the answer. This team needs to change the back court entirely get rid of Nate and Duhon and get a point who can drive and still hit an open J and since Nate is nothing more than a poor man’s Ben Gordon, get a player who does what a BG type player does minus the stupidity (Have to admit, IDK where that guy is). Gallo is stil hurt definately so is Chandler (Trade Him Still). People can’t be too mad at Al cuz even with his shortcomings If he hit his free throws last night we still had a chance. At least he wants to win, I can’t say the same for everybody on this team!

Easy you put the ball in Duhon’s hands 90% of the time and tell everyone else to shoot 363 threes a game . . . oh and then you repeatedly give Al Harrington the ball and let him create in the 4th quarter. That is winning basketball all the way around.

Listen and listen good. The only way we will have a consistently winning team is to have a management who knows how to draft, trade, pick up good role players and coach. Right now we have neither. Until we get a GM who knows and understands today’s game and today’s players, and a coach who understands it’s about the players and not about him; a coach who knows how to actually coach and motivate, we will have what we have now–bull**** basketball.

I was responding to Italian Stallion but trading expiring contracts for new expiring contracts is not the answer. Our present roster may very well improve but it will not happen overnight. We tried the quick fix and it didn’t work. That is my point.

I said it before and I’ll say it now. Start Toney Douglas and let him grow into the position. Let Duhon be the back up. We aren’t going anywhere anyway so give Douglas a shot. At least Douglas hustles and plays defense and rebounds. The more he shoots, the more he’ll have confidence in his shot. Duhon is the worst PG in the NBA.

Has anyone seen the Wizard of Oz?
No heart, no brains (Your 2009 New York Knicks!)

I hope that Gallo, Douglas and Hill don’t let this terribly inconsistant play rub off on them too much, seeing as how they will likely be part of this club for the next few years.
And in Gallo’s defense, he appears to have the highest basketball acumen on the team, and he is still only 21!
I guarantee that we will not recognize this team next fall!

He was also dominated by Roy Hibbert.

i hate to beat a dead horse but DUHON IS THE WORST PG IN THE NBA!!!!!!!
He’s the biggest liability we have on our team!!!! he hesitates w/ the P&R, his supposed bread & butter, the only reason its been workin is b/c LEE is athletic enough to execute it…Duhon’s D is embarassing…he has no clue how to run a fast break…he ALWAYS WALKS the ball up the court instead of pushin the tempo… i have the League Pass and i see EVERY PG and EVERY PG is better than DUHON…D’Antoni owes NOTHING to Duhon so he needs to TRADED ASAP or benched cuz even tho Douglas is strugglin offensively, he pushes the tempo & plays good D, his offense will come once he gets a rhythm for the NBA game…
I HATE THE FACT THAT A LOT OF YOU GUYS BLAME D’ANTONI…IF YOU GIVE EMERIL A SLICE OF BREAD AND KETCHUP AND DEMAND THAT HE MAKE YOU A PIZZA…IT’S GONNA TASTE LIKE SHIT!!!!!!!!!
D’Antoni won games and was a force w/ the personnel that can EXECUTE his style!!!!! in the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, ETC. coachin can only take you so far its the EXECUTION OF THE PLAYERS ALONG W/ THEIR WILL TO WIN THAT MAKES GREAT TEAMS GREAT…so i hate to say this but i blame DW & the players for our misfortunes…
People also wanna blame AL for the loss and even though i agree that he did HOG the ball way too much at least he attacked the basket and should some heart and will to win…
I’M ALSO IN THE COMMITTEE THAT ORDAINS THAT CHANDLER IS NO LONGER AN UNTOUCHABLE TRADE CHIP!!!!!!
this guy has so much ability but he is dumb as dog shit…he can’t dribble for shit and he ALWAYS SETTLES FOR THE LONG JUMPER INSTEAD OF USING HIS QUICKNESS, STRENGTH, & ATHLETICISM TO GET A BETTER SHOT…
and finally…don’t blame HUGHES for the loss cuz even though his shot wasn’t fallin he didn’t take bad shots and played pretty good D…

GEE why is everyone so negative?you guys are the most pessimistic fans ive ever seen!how could you call yourselves knicks fans? This is the shit,that i heard all summer long from you guys,for saying the exact same things that you are saying now! EAT ME

LOL…GOOD STUFF BOB…I know we had our battles but i always respected your opinion and i told you that if the knicks played like shit i would bitch w/ the best of em…But i was always on your ‘Get Sessions cuz Duhon is a liability’ banwagon…i did fight you on Chandler & Hill and for that i apologize cuz Wilson is too dumb and heartless to live up to his potential & even tho the jury is still out on Hill, the fact that the #7 pick can’t contribute to a strugglin team is inexcusable…and that falls on DW…in his defense tho, i truly believe he thought DLEE wasn’t gonna be a knick this yr and drafted HILL…BUT a better draft would have been gettin BJ3 & Blair…but what can you do…and even tho i think you’re a little too negative, you’re not an idiot so i’ll give you your props BOB

eff that!we need talent.good proven talent.toney douglas right now ,would make this team even worse than it is now

here moe,your next beer is on me!lol

Not true. DW had to gut then team to clear salary space so he could reverse the IT wreckage and build a team, and he has a track record for building playoff teams. And D’A is a great motivator whose teams won lots of games. No coach is more positive.

I don’t blame D’A or Walsh or Duhon. Isiah wreaked this team for years and DW has been very masterful at dumping bums with bad contracts, getting rid of tens of millions of salaries Isiah dished out and signing new guys at low salaries to start clean in 2 yrs with the hugest cap space. That was not easy. Chill till next summer. This roster is poor but will be different next November. DW has built great playoff teams and he is not lame.

Golden State wouldn’t. Hill looks worse than Brandon Wright ever did, and they don’t like him, and Chandler’s game is very limited and Nellie would not like him. Randolf is gonna be a star when Nellie retires. I wish he would go away now and let Keith Smart be the coach.

Seems they lost because the Pacers are much quicker and more motivated and the Knix are too slow and their pt guard is not capable of leading them, and w/o a star, the Knix are a cellar dweller. We already knew that. Next year…..

I know but he’s in Nellie’s doghouse! And it’s not the first time, they do have a rocky relationship. Randolph is not even starting!

The Warriors liked Hill and Wilson Chandler would be a cheap option if they trade Stephen Jackson.

Haha hey Nas desperately needs to wake up.

And I don’t think the injury has something to do with it. I can understand that he’s not healthy enough to penetrate and try to make things happen in the paint but why take contested 3 pointers. He needs to play inside the arc, his midrange jumpshot > 3-point jumpshot.

Yeah it seems kind of puzzling they wouldnt try to get Bayless. That guy is looking at no playing time.

Perhaps you forgot the Rockets are a smart team.

Chill, Joe : ) You are beating a dead horse. We know the Knix have mediocre talent. If they had a star or 2 everyone would look better, but they don’t. The Cavs won 60 games with one star. No point in picking on Duhon or anyone. The Knix had to clear the roster and start over. DW built great playoff teams before — he drafted a buncha studs….the Davises, Miller, Smits, Jackson, etc., I think. Let’s see what he can do with the cap space next summer.

Bwahahahaha!!! You’re right Bob. I thought MiamiMoe was you for a minute lol.