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Editor’s Note: I first made the points below in my piece for SNY.tv about C.C. Sabathia’s impact way back in August…
Solid piece by Howard Beck of The NY Times (grab your pipe and head for the study) who spells out what many people 
around the NBA have been thinking. The idea that, in this day and age, Lebron doesn’t need NY from a marketing standpoint to be a mega star.
“…David Falk, the onetime superagent who represented Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning, said, “I don’t think that where you are physically situated is nearly as important as it was 20 years ago.”
The world has changed since Falk brokered the deals that turned Jordan into the greatest sports marketing vehicle ever in the 1980s and ’90s. The Internet gives fans a 24-hour connection to their sports heroes, no matter where they play. Games are beamed to televisions in every hemisphere, and to computers and mobile phones via satellite. Players converse with fans through blogs and Twitter and Facebook.
The sports world is flat. And market size, which was once a key consideration in endorsement deals, is virtually irrelevant, according to agents, consultants and image experts. Moving to New York might give James a small boost, but most say it would be negligible.
However, Beck leaves the reader hanging with a key point at the very end that needs to be addressed.
“…Leaving Cleveland could actually hurt James, the consultants said, if the public starts to view him as disloyal, self-interested or greedy, or if his new team falters badly.
Can James get any bigger, bolder, richer, more iconic? The experts say yes, but not necessarily by moving to New York.
“The most important thing is winning,” Falk said, pointing to Jordan’s six championship rings. “If he were my client, I would tell him you better put yourself somewhere where you can win four or five...”
Which leads me to the point that I’ve been making all along. Cleveland is not in a position to shop thanks to long term deals with Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao and Boobie Gibson. So if it doesn’t work out with Shaq this year, what’s the next play? Lebron may want to win in Cleveland, but does another star player want to? People can knock Jordan Hill and Danilo Gallinari all they want, but the Cavs aren’t saturated with off the charts, young talent either.
So what’s the play for the Cavs to ensure Lebron, should they lose this year, that he can win 1 ring, let alone 4 or 5? They certainly won’t have the cap space for a top tier free agent right Brian Windhorst of the Plain Dealer?
“…When a player’s contract expires and a team owns his rights [the "Bird" rights that give a team the ability to go over the
salary cap to sign him] you have what is called a “cap hold” placed on your cap. For LeBron, it would be a maximum salary hold because his 2008-09 salary is the max. These also exist for draft picks. So while it may look like the Cavs would have $20 million in cap space, they actually won’t because of LeBron’s cap hold. Not to mention Shaquille O’Neal and Zydrunas Ilgauskas cap holds. You get rid of a cap hold two ways: You sign the player, or you renounce his rights — and that won’t happen with LeBron, obviously…”
The Knicks, on the other hand, will have several chances to bring in talent should they not land a co-star this summer and I’ll venture to guess that they can upgrade upon Williams, Varejao and Gibson next season and beyond thus setting the stage for multiple finals appearances for the next decade. This can’t be seen as “selling out” when you consider that the future in Cleveland isn’t real pretty with James, considering they don’t have many trade assets, let alone without him.
And by the way, I have plenty of faith that if he gets the chance to play with James, Jordan Hill can be a cheaper, if not better, version Varejao.
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what game did you ever see Jordan Hill play in that made you think hes better than Varejao?if you close your eyes tight enough and and keep repeating the phrase “theres no place like MSG” maybe.C’mon Tommy,what even could make anyone think hell be as good as Nate Bowman?
From Today’s Daily News:
“D’Antoni felt that the Knicks could break 40 wins. But now he sounds concerned over the state of the team. “What stands out is our lack of asserting our will onto the game,” he said. “… We don’t have a mental will to win a basketball game right now.”
My friends, that says it all. Let’s all skip to July 1st 2010. The players are revolting and it’s only a matter of time until D’Antoni loses the team and they start tuning him out. This season is over.
Agreed Bobby.
“What stands out is our lack of asserting our will onto the game,” he said. “… We don’t have a mental will to win a basketball game right now.”
I wonder.. isn’t the coach’s job to avoid such things?
i”f you close your eyes tight enough and and keep repeating the phrase “theres no place like MSG” maybe”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sweet!
The Knicks might be in a better position than the Cavs talent-wise (I think they are) but they are still one of the worst teams in the NBA from that perspective. Realistically they only have one promising player – who’s not even ready to lead the team night in and night out.
First, Gallinari will have to play well tonight.
Second, Donnie Walsh will have to make a decision one day or another and make a (minor) trade for Jerryd Bayless or a (major) trade for Anthony Randolph who’s in Nellie’s doghouse once again (I’d give Hill and Chandler for AR).
Getting double-max room in the cap is the most important factor in getting Lebron here, imo. Not necessarily another max contract next to Lebron, but maybe comparable talent spread over 2 or 3 roster spots.
It’d be nice to find a few good cheap pieces this year, but unload Curry and Jeffries is our #1 priority
Did I misunderstand what you wrote? Comparable talent to whom?
Room for one (the incomparable Lebron), some young guns and flexibility to add another a year down the line could be just enough.
Our young guns are better than the Cav’s by a mile.
But a real PG is imperative. And breaking the forward log jam.
letme just say thjat this is a frggn disgrace..we are 5 games into the season,and because of Donnie Walshs plan,we cant even talk about how we should make this years team better,so we have to talk about another teams star player and how he might or might not come to ny next year.ive never seen anything this lame in the 50 years of my being a sports fan.oh we cant improve the team this year it might go over next years cap.this is an embarresment from david stern to donnie walsh to mike d’antoni to lbj.i just hope i dont get so disgusted,that i cant watch anymore
It really does stink Bob.
Just looking back there are 2 moves if available that Donnie had to pull the trigger on.
Nate & Jeffries for Kenny Thomas.
Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson at #8. DeJuan Blair at #29. Imagine how different our team would be right now. We wouldn’t be given stinking minutes to an ineffective Jeffries, and there’d be a ton of hope for this year as our young guns were developing.
The worst part of this year right now is that we have too many players on this team that we have no idea if they’re going to be here or not, which makes it hard to root for them. David Lee, Harrington, Duhon, Darko, Nate, Hughes – that to me is the big story, this is what’s most depressing to look forward, besides the fact that we don’t have a lotto pick.
We know how amazing Lebron is, but I’m starting to form the viewpoint there is absolutely no way he’s coming to a 25-30 win Knick team. We have to be at least competitive this season for him to consider us.
We have to have Gallo & Chandler be real stars. They both need to take big leaps. Douglas & Hill need to hve great development. And Lebron needs to be afforded the chance to bring along his choice of a 2nd superstar, which cannot happen if we do not trade Eddy Curry & Jeffries. There is just too many (at the moment) unrealistic scenarios we are depending upon.
im sorry,but in no way do i see WILSON CHANDLER as a star of anything.if he were on any other team,hed be the 9th man in the rotation
the knicks are actually in a terrible position talentwise.
- yes, GALLO is a very nice player, maybe even an allstar talent some day down the road. he’ll have to show something longterm and stay healthy though.
- WILSON CHANDLER: great value for the position he was picked at, but he really is just an able body to use at both sides of the court. there’s nothing he does particularly great. EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN TEH NBA HAS A PLAYER LIKE THAT! the worst thing about it: because he is in new york where everybody keeps saying he’s a big part of franchise’s future, extending him will be very costly. overpaying waiting to happen.
- JORDAN HILL: yes, people are right to say “don’t call him a bust just yet, he hasn’t even played a game”. what they don’t understand is that that is exactly what makes this pick so crappy.
this season the knicks need to show lebron and the other free agents, that there is a bright future here in new york, that there’s great young talent here. but what does walsh do? he picks the single lottery player that is not ready for the league. and one who doesn’t even play at a position of need!
maybe hill will be a good player some time down the road, but that does not change the fact, that he was a terrible terrible choice for what the knicks need now (and 2010).
- TONEY DOUGLAS: see chandler. probably great value for a late round pick, but the fact that people are hanging their hope on to him… boy oh bo boy. in the last draft alone there were so many point guards drafted better than him it’s not even funny.
and speaking of the DRAFT: the knicks don’t have their own (possibly very high) lottery pick in what looks to be an exciting draft (thanks again isiah). we will probably aquire another late first rounder, but where does that leave us? drafting another able but mediocre player while the teams around us actually get better?
with another high lottery player the freaking NETS will be a powerhouse talentwise when free agency starts.
there’s really nothing to cheer about the knicks.
Precisely, pleasex3. Precisely.
I couldn’t agree more! All the players we have are mediocre at best, and none will be Superstars, maybe 2nd tier. Gallo will be good but 2nd tier, like a Rudy Gay, or Hedo Turkoglu.
Chandler is not gonna get any better than what he is, its just not in his personality. He’s officially TRADE BAIT.
I would trade him for a Ist round pick.
Jordan Hill was not the move for the 8th, pick. This was a very important Draft, especially with no pick in this years draft. We drafted a project at 8, very stupid and irresponsible.
Douglas is good, I love his defensive intensity, but so many others we could of had.
New York is better than Cleveland.
Just not in this sport.
He can hang out here whenever he wants in the offseason. Take his lady/kids shopping, take them to a play etc. He doesn’t need to sign here to enjoy NYC.
You know… of course it would be great to have James playing for NY, but I don’t like to attach the future of this club to this happening. The frustration might be too great to overcome.
Unless Donnie has any sort of information we don’t, I don’t think he should either. He should be looking to make some kind of improvement, within good reason (cost-benefice).
And I think, in case James or Wade don’t come to the Knicks, we should spend our money wisely and not overpay for 1-A type of players, like happened in the late 90’s with Houston, Childs and Spree. Sure we went to the finals, but with no real chance to compete with the Spurs.
If one of these stars don’t come next year, we should wait to spend star kind of money on players deserving it.
Oh, and LJ, how could I forget about him. Great effort for the Knicks, loved the 4 point play in the POs, but came in with a bad back.
The point was, although I liked the team, it was an expensive one with no chance to win titles.
You can only wait so long though, cuz those cheap contracts that our young players are on, pretty soon they’re going to be demanding big deals (which we have already seen with David Lee). Look at Portland, they’re already almost at the limit just extending Roy and Aldredge. Those are two great players, but I really feel they overpaid Aldredge big time and might live to regret that.
Ideal is to sign at least one centerpiece this summer, and the final piece next summer. Any longer than that and you’re stuck in perpetual rebuilding mode. This is why even if we can’t get a Lebron or Wade, I’m a big proponent of getting Chris Bosh.Amare & a Joe Johnson together if possible. If we can get two 1b type players (lower than 1a Lebron & Dwade, but higher than 2nd tier Rudy Gay & company), I believe we have a legit shot at contending for a championship.
I think we need 3 legit centerpieces. It’s imperative that either Gallo or Chandler develop into an all-star. Then you bring in two more, and surround those pieces with complementary players.
I see your point, but who in this team, besides (maybe) Gallo will demand big money in the future?
I don’t see it happening with Chandler, for instance. Lee is a good player, sure, but would it be smart to pay the kind of money he’s looking, for a Z-Bo (minus the attitude) type of player? 20-10 but no real defensive effort.
Amare: oft-injured. And we did spend a lottery pick on a guy that plays the position, so the same aplies to Bosh. Should we sign one of them and let Hill ride the bench or play one of them at the 5?
Johnson: albeit a good player, what kind of money will he demand? My fear is that, confronted with the fact that neither James nor Wade signed, the Knicks will panic and pay him Alan Houston kind of money. And I’m pretty sure Joe Johnson isn’t the kind of player that can carry a team to a title.
So yeah, maybe grab Johnson, but only if the price is right, then wait for a real star in the following years.
What’s killing us is the lack of lottery pick next year. Isiah really screwed us on that one. Our star of the future could have come via draft.
BTW I was using the following scale:
1 (James, Wade)
1A (Bosh, Amare)
1B (Joe Johnson)
Cleveland is in a much much worse position at the end of this year.
Big Z is contemplating retirement. Shaq has very little left in the tank and the rest of the team is piddling role players.
The Cavs have already lost as many home games this year as they did ALL of last year.
If Donnie can make some decisions to break the logjam at forward and bring in a real point guard then we may have the upper hand.
The A Randolph situation out West is amazing.. Nellie playing him 7 minutes as the third string center? good grief!
How about Lee, Nate and JJ for Stephen Jackson and Randolph?
I’d do that trade. I’d even throw Wilson in there. Stephen Jackson can rotate between the 2 and the 3 and gets Hill in there probably with Lee and JJ gone.
*holds breath*
Id love that trade adds a lot of cap on but gives us a Leader, a rising star and a two guard, with more minutes for J Hill……DO IT!!!
adds less than 4 mil met to 2010 but removes the Nate/Lee cap holds.
It would add about 20 mil beyond 2010 that other teams are balking on..
I read that GS is actively looking for a deal and is considering Charlotte with Diaw as the major piece — He has more $$ left than JJ.
Anyone have Don Nelson’s phone number?
I didn’t look at the numbers but I knew Captain Jack had a lot of years left.
Whats Donnie’s number this trade makes TOO much sense.
Face the facts here Toney Douglas, Jordan Hill, Gallinari is young big three with a lot of potential. Adding David Lee and Al Harrington into the mix just makes things more interesting.
Jordan Hill is and was the best pick at 8, BJ would of been a good pick at 8 to but what is the point in drafting an undersized PF that can just rebound?
And Ty Lawson looks better now because he is getting consistent minutes on a good team while Toney is getting Sporadic minutes on a OK team.
Since this was a Project Draft I have no clue why people are mad we got a Project at least he has shown he can produce.
As far as the Teams Morale we still need that leader we were yearning for in the off season (Jason Kidd, Grant Hill).
who said this is a project draft?jordan hill was the best pick at 8? whos opinions are these?
SInce many people repeated over and over this is one of the worst drafts in a long time and that J Hill was the best pick at 8, What I said is true.
J.Hill shouldn’t worry about anything you people are saying its funny how people dont change.
We heard ALL Last year Gallo is a bust and how we should of picked of Lopez or Gordon than Gallo plays and things look a little brighter.
Now J.Hill isn’t playing and he is a bust and we should picked BJ or Ty Lawson…..lol things never change.
“Face the facts here Toney Douglas, Jordan Hill, Gallinari is young big three with a lot of potential. Adding David Lee and Al Harrington into the mix just makes things more interesting.”
So why bother making any trades or bringing in a Superstar we already have a “Big 3″?
“Jordan Hill is and was the best pick at 8, BJ would of been a good pick at 8 to but what is the point in drafting an undersized PF that can just rebound?”
BJ isn’t a power forward, he does rebound well for a guard, but that’s not what he’s known for. He is averaging more rebounds than Galinari who is an oversized SF and is shooting a higher percentage from 3pt range early on (I’m sure that will change lol) and he’s gotten everyone, writers, sportscasters, current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches and former/current GM’s proclaiming him an early ROY candidate. What is Hill doing? Who is saying he was the best pick?
“Ty Lawson looks better now because he is getting consistent minutes on a good team while Toney is getting Sporadic minutes on a OK team.”
First of all, the Knicks are not an “OK” team (that’s hilarious). Secondly, the fact that Lawson can get solid minutes on a playoff team and Hill can’t get a moment on the floor for a team headed for a pick-less lottery, speaks volumes and not in a positive way for Hill. I’ve never heard anyone refer to this draft as a project draft. Furthermore there are several players that came out of this draft that are contributing to teams as bad and better than the Knicks.
Stop being an idiot. every up and coming team has a young big three like Oklahoma with KD, Harden and Westbrook, Memphis with Gasol, Gay and Mayo and then there is the Clippers with Gordon, Griffin and Thornton.
Then there is the other idiot comment I was talking about Dejuan Blair, I probably know more about BJ than you ever will but that beside the point. People have been saying they prefer BJ and Blair more than Hill and Douglas.
The Knicks are an OK when we ae motivated we can do more than your sorry ass wants to give them credit for.
Ty is getting minutes because he is better than Anthony Carter and because JR Smith was suspended first of all, Hill can’t get minutes because we have a FORWARD LOGJAM, WHICH HAS BEEN REPEATED OVER AND OVER AGAIN. EVEN BY YOU!?!?!
Well since you like copying my words why you didn’t copy this one
“SInce many people repeated over and over this is one of the worst drafts in a long time”
3 out of 60 proves my point that this was a weak draft full of projects.
With fans like your sorry ass who needs rivals.
Gerald Wallace averages more rebounds than DH12 is he a better rebounder than him?
You’re seriously okay with Jordan Hill at 8 when you see he’s getting **ZERO** minutes right now for “this” knicks team? C’mon man, anyone serious can see that for a lottery pick, you got to have someone who can help you right now. I mean you draft for potential only so far, sometimes you have to take risks. And I think this time the Knicks were so focused on getting the “safest” pick, that they actually picked the most riskiest project for their team. Big men don’t always turn out alright. Look at our history of recent big men draft picks. Sweeney. Frye. It’s amazing DLee turned out alright, that was a miracle in itself.
Look at how much we’re hurting at pg man. Duhon isn’t the answer.
I love how guys who are unable to debate their opinion with you resort to name calling. You made a typo by calling BJ a PF, assuming BJ = Brandon Jennings and PF = Power Forward and then you get upset at me? Then you mention him as being able to do nothing but rebound, so obviously I’m going to make mention of it in my response to your post. So sensitive. Relax Holmes,
Secondly, I know you are not mentioning those upcoming “Big 3’s” to Galinari, Douglas and Hill, pleeeeease tell me THAT is a typo! Durant, Harden and Westbrook?! Gordon, Griffin and Thornton?!! GASOL (is a reach) Mayo and Gay?!!! Comparable to Hill, Galinari and Douglas? Only one of those guys is actually playing significant minutes!
Forward Logjam or not Hill should be able to avoid DNP-CD’s every night. Even in the blowouts he can’t get a look in the hope he sparks the team. Don’t make excuses for the kid man, he’s a lottery pick. There are several players picked after him that are playing, some even on good teams. This is a bad team and I don’t understand sacrificing Hill’s minutes on a bad team for players who won’t even be here.
“3 out of 60 proves my point”?
What exactly does that mean? Or am I such an idiot I can’t figure it out?
This draft was projected as weak many time BEFORE the draft, but since then I haven’t heard it referred to as that. A lot of guys have surprised proving there were quite a few gems to be had with a little effort and the gonads to take the risk. Many GMs are gushing over some of the picks they were able to make outside of the lottery. While the Knicks are mum on their big man because he can’t even get 5 mins a night on a bad team.
Out of respect for Tommy, I’m not going to resort to the name calling.
Trust me, when motivated I can be a lot more creative than calling you an “idiot”.
Take it easy.
How do you even call yourself a fan after I completely shot everything you said down you just want to avoid it.
I call it like I see it, If you are an Idiot you are an Idiot.
You didn’t shoot anything I said down actually. So I don’t know what you’re even saying right now. All you did was call me an idiot and fail to see that you made an error in your post and then blamed me for it. But if you want to believe that you shot all my points down, hey knock yourself out. I may be an idiot, but I can read.
Peace.
So since you knew it was an error why write a paragraph about it.
Either you are an A Hole or an Idiot..Take your pick.
So tempting, but I’m going to refrain from taking it there “tough guy”.