You Can’t Teach What Douglas Showed… And Has Been Showing

good post CHRIS

i love players like DOUG
just play hard that’s what i like
as the season goes by he should get better
next game hopefully i get to see it..

i was a balkman fan when he was here.

Good post

Toney Douglas said it himself that he was always compared to Joe Dumars (even by Joe himself!) and I see a lot of Dumars in Douglas. The reason he dropped so low is because scouts saw a shooting guard in a point guards body and I don’t see Douglas as an elite distributor, but he definitely has the handle and intelligence to run the point, especially if he can share the job with teammates like Hughes right now and hopefully Gallo.

I can see Toney developing as a starter next to a ball dominant star like Lebron, much like Dumars played point during Grant Hil’s early career and they two shared playmaking responsibilities. Even if next year we get say Joe Johnson instead of Wade, if Douglas continues to develop I can see him starting alongside JJ and Gallo with the three of them sharing ball control.

The kid clearly is an ace defender and his ability to steal the ball is perfect for a fast paced system with the right pieces.

Yea I can’t complain about Douglas, we are fortunate to have him. Seriously though if Duhon continues to play badly, he should get the nod at starting minutes. What have we got to lose? Duhon isn’t staying here past this year, at least give the kid who hustles, plays great d, and is part of our future; the minutes.

Douglas made big strides, that’s very encouraging. I’ve been advocating for working him in more, I’m glad D’antoni is getting the message there.

That said, he still has a little to go. The last play proved that. You could tell he was used to being the man in college, Once Douglas saw Hughes wasn’t open, he put his head down and every Jazz defender knew he was taking that shot. TD’s distributor instincts need to kick in. But he’s good at pushing the ball up court and has fire on defense. Hopefully the rest will follow.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Nate comes back. Maybe we can bring back our uptempo offense with a Nate/Toney backcourt and make their opponents go small. It worked in preseason.

Also, Douglas is already showing the type of fire on the court that can become infectious. I dunno, maybe it was just me, but it seemed when Douglas was pushing the ball and hitting his jumper, the rest of the knicks on the court responded by equaling his intensity. They simply followed his lead. He did the same thing with Nate on defense in preseason.

That kind of energy that comes off a player that magically rubs off on their teammates is not an attribute that is taught and is rare. That’s the kind of skillseparates players like Lebron, Kobe, KG, Wade and Paul from other stars. That’s what MJ had in spades. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think TD is going to be anywhere near the level of the aforementioned, but that’s the same little something that mades role players like Doc Barnett, Ray Williams and John Starks memorable Knicks.

John Starks!! Damn I love him and hate him. Can’t ever forget his “dunk” and his “2-18″ performance, lol

Douglas is fun to watch but he is not a pure PG. Not trying to knock him but some writers were trying to portray him as one after the draft but he is a combo gaurd. Walsh really failed on not getting a PG in this draft and boxed DA into a corner. Duhon is the only PG on the roster that can really run his system. Remember how fans went crazy over Mardy Collins after he looked good in our blowout losses, lol.

That said I still think Nate should start with Duhon and Douglas backing him up. I can understand the thinking on benching Gallo, when he is not hitting the three he gives you so little else out there. Hopefully with Nate, Hughes, Al, and Lee around him it will force teams to stop face guarding him like they do with Duhon and Jeffries on the floor. Not saying Gallo should be the focal point, he hasn’t proven he deserves to be, but he does add a dimension to the team with his shooting that we have lacked since Houston retired.

Another day another loss. At least the great E. Curry comes back tomorrow. Season saved.

Very, very good article. You weren’t knocking Toney nor did you put him on pedestal. Props goes out to Knowledge, Knicks4life, Jho, Nandornator and Circle for their insightful opinions as well. There are a few pure pgs like Paul, Parker and D. Williams . If T-Diddy game doesn’t say pg, I don’t know what does. The guys dribble is similar to what Hs coaches have been preaching to players for the past sixty years, lol. A) Keep your dribble B) Make the proper pass C)Lead your team as pg. I mean Douglas did this since playing against feisty pg’s in SL, to playing against the likes of Rondo, Devon Harris, CP3, Lou, Jennings, Augustine, Rafer, Felton, etc in the League. His ball control is fundemnetally sound. How many turnovers have he committed since being a Knick? Exactly. If he isn’t considered a pure pg, maybe I’m watching the wrong guy for the past five years.

Douglas is an old school Knick…gritty and proud and won’t back down!

Preach it, Chris, preach it.

Agree, Dino.

I don’t think this was such a good post. It’s cool and all that he didn’t knock Toney and he didn’t build him up to be the next great but Chris didn’t even see the game!!!. He is basing Toney Douglas off ot a few Summer League and Pre Season games. Chris…How many times have you seen Toney Douglas play basketball??? Chris you shouldn’t have written this post without seeing the game and it is unfair to judge Toney’s potential without knowing his game. All I am saying is that Toney Douglas had a good game last night. Let’s leave it at that. He’s a rookie playing in his 8th NBA game. Let him find his balance and flow. Let the rookie develop. We are so quick to judge these players

Amen brother….Amen!

More Douglas, Gallo & Hill, please!

Less Duhon, Jeffries & Harrington, please!

Play the guys who have something to prove, who bring new energy and who are improving.

If Ghostface can learn how to Distribute better we may be in business but like Chris said if we can get Lebron Ghostface can play point full time.
Im just waiting for one of these “Veterans” to get traded.

very good point, Manners. I’m probably the only one who has seen Toney’s game for a few years. I’m not one of those who goes for anyone. I’m a realist. But there are only a handful of guys who achieves and stays the course…and that guy is TD. From being thrown in the doghouse after leaving Auburn, to beating Duke. See I’m not saying he’s good because he can shoot..but by the way he continues to play defense is what’s impressive…at this level. All a young player needs to do is get involved in ballgame, get a few deflictions, grab a rebound, do something. Once that happens the game will open up..look at Doug, Hill and Landry after they entered the game against the Bucks. Becuase of their D, the game opened up for them…leading to a couple of 3′s and layups. Now their confidence build. That’s why I feel Douglas will do “good.” His defense gets him the game..and as he grows…so will his shot….but the key is the way he involves himself defensively…which leads to easy layups, assists…and eventually confidence.

That’s why I feel Landry and Hill, and maybe Milliac should be included in the rotation. Why not have a lineup of Hill and Landry with a veteran presence of Lee and Harrington with Duhon? Common sense, right? Or Hill, JJ, Milliac and Robinson and Hughes. Scoring, defense, veteranship out of hughes and Nate, defense, fresh blood and veteran presence out of Hill, JJ, Milliac. Would that hurt to switch it up and build your young core, putting them with a veteran lineup to take pressure off of them?

The day we trade Curry or Jeffries for an expiring (and if you have to trade Dlee do it!!), I’m going to be jumping with joy. If by some miracle we trade both for expirings? MAN, I’m going to be psyched for 2010 summer!

I totally agree.

Nice Article Chris — welcome back.

I’d like to see more of a distributor’s mentality from T-Doug but at least we can take something from a loss.

On the reality check side — Duhon looks just awful. The interior Defense is still a mess and Chandler looks lost out there.

Its going to be a long slog to Dec15th.

In all fairness, I did see the final minutes. And that was what I based this article on. And just to answer your question, I have seen him play in the other Knicks REGULAR SEASON

….games. I have seen his style and his approach throughtout the young season.

I hear your point, and I understand that I did not see all of his play tonight. But the article was meant to depict how he handled himself when the game was in the balance.

I think that’s the key point. they are preparing Douglas to be the point going forward. They may have thought it would take a little longer to start the process since they were basing this season on how Duhon played last year. I think Lebron is a smoke screen for the knicks, he would be an amazing pick up next season and a dream come true to some but knowing how Walsh works I think Joe Johnson and Amare are more his kind of moves. Joe next to Gallo, with a point that can cause havick and get those two the ball? not a bad situation to be in. Jordan Hill and Lee benefitting from an Amare .. I may be off but I see that as a more realistic move for the knicks. he’s said he wanted to build a contender for years to come and would spending all that money on one mega star instead of getting several above average players and solid role players make a better team? Douglas is going to be more like a Charlie Ward for this team, a guy that can run the floor and come up big when needed and let the stars be the stars.

Thank you DeBusscherescorner…Finally a Knick fan who doesn’t over react and has patience. I agree with what your saying about how defense leads to other things on the court. We should do our own show. I can see it now…”LIve From The Garden” lol….. I’ve also seen TD play in college. Seen Hill and Landry as well. Your right in that the game did open up while the young guys were on the floor against Milwaukee. Why aren’t they in the rotation?? The guys we have in rotation now don’t play well as a unit so why is coach D forcing square pegs into round holes??? The team looks better, quicker and most importantly competitive with the younger player. Milicic included

I have to agree with K4L. Toney Douglas is a combo guard. I’ve been telling people that on the Newsday blog that were drinking the T-Doug cool-aid. I love what I’m seeing from him and the Rajon Rondo comparison is accurate but in this system that isn’t saying much. Keep in mind this isn’t the Knicks team of the 90′s we loved to watch. In Coach D’s system a pure PG is needed along with shooters to keep the offense fluid. That makes T-Doug a 3rd guard. Btw, if Rondo didn’t have Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG on his team our viewpoint on him would be a lot different. Shot out to Knowledge and K4L. I’ve been looking for a Knicks blog since Newsday decided to charge with knowledgeable posters and this looks like a winner. Also, shot out to BiggieSmalls who left the Newsday blog after the Heri debacle lol. I appreciate your insight.

Thanks big.

I never left. Just busier now at work. I started at the beginning of October, so if you have noticed a drop-off in my posts, that is why.

Agree, Manners. “The team looks better, quicker and most importantly competitive with the younger player.” If they could find a way of mixing the rotation, I believe they can go far. This nine rotation isn’t helping in the chemistry department. Can they win with the current starting five? Yeah. But their play has been frightenly lackluster. Besides, a eight man or nine man are for playoff bound or championship caliber teams like Boston, Cleveland, Lakers and Magics, in my opinion. The Knicks need to win as a team first…and by doing that you mix the lineup and hold everyone accountable. What have we learn from Hill in the game against the Bucks? He’s tenacious at blocking shots. How about putting with Hughes, Nate, Lee, Harrington, where not only will Hill’s length, athleticism, and youth benefit the veteran core, but give him confidence. That confidence gained could make him a twenty point scorer in no time.

Like for instance, you may laugh at this concept, but D’Antoni could put this lineup out there:

Curry, C
Millic, PF
Hill, SF
Hughes, SG
Duhon, PG

Why? If D’Antoni decides to use a zone. Duhon is an okay defender. Hughes is a great defender and Hill, Milliac, Curry would be a big, athletic, backcourt that can block shots or in the case of Hill and Milliac, can guard anyone from the free throw down..but because of the zone they don’t have to worry about because you have two guards capable of defending the perimeter and inside the key. But the bodies of Hill, Milliac, Curry would be hard to score on..6’11, 6’10, 7’0″… saying any guards you decide to put in that situation energy. This won’t be the starting five, but lineup that can finish off the last five minutes of the second quarter or something. I’m just showing how D’Antoni can mix the lineups instead of giving six guys who are languishing majority of the minutes.

I think douglas is a better version of nate, already. He should start getting lots of minutes.

I think he can play PG. He may not be completely ready to ‘run the system’ yet, but it’s not like Duhon can do it either. With duhon on the floor we are one of the slowest paced teams in the league…. That should ring an alarm.

He cannot push the ball, he cannot get by anyone, he cannot get people high percentage shots on the break… He walks the ball up the court and hands it off and if he gets it back he either misses a three or drives with the intention of kicking out to a bad shooter, for a bad three.

Teams that shoot 50 percent don’t do it by shooting a bunch of 50% shots. They shoot a lot of 30 percent shots, a lot of 40 percent shots (good three pointers), and then alot of 70 and 80, and even 100% shots. Its the AVERAGE. If we don’t push the ball EVER and NEVER create fast break layup opportunities than we will shoot 30 percent for the rest of the season. Douglas may need to work on his passing/awareness but he clearly has many more tools to run this system than duhon does. I say we let him do it and accept the turnovers for the time being. Duhon is AWFUL… worst starting PG in the league by far. Douglas is an incredible defender (yes i am already using that word), and he plays with so much energy, that if he keeps pushing the ball like he is he will start to form some chemistry with the other players and we will start getting fast break points again like we are supposed to.

saying any guards…
*saving any guards…

hes a rookie who has had 1 decent game,(and only 1 assist in the game)so lets not overeact

You are misunderstanding my point. I am not over-reacting to douglas having a couple good games. My reaction isn’t even really based on douglas, it’s about duhon. I know Douglas has certain deficiencies and he;s still an inexperienced rookie who may or may not be a natural PG, but duhon simply does not have the tools, whatsoever, to make this team work. He can’t do anything.

Douglas had like 8 deflections last night and when those turn into steals he can actually run the floor. He’s very quick, very strong, pretty smart, very agressive, and actually has a scoring arsenal… all that, we know.

I’m not saying he has proven he should be a starting PG in this league, but when your only other choice is duhon, he ABSOLUTELY should be.

It was hard to play nate at the PG because he plays, in the way that harrington often does, with his eyes closed, but douglas seems to have the same type of game as nate but he is clearly much smarter, more serious, a harder worker and a much better defender.

Again; maybe he shouldnt be a full time PG in this league yet, but on the knicks, he’s easily the best choice by far. I think him and nate should start with Hughes, Hill, and Lee, with Darko and Al off the bench. Hill can guard the 5′s instead of Lee, but doesn’t have to clog the lane on offense.

I forgot about galo.

yeah,Duhon is hard to take,no wonder he was nailed to the bench in chicago.Im wondering why he was so highly recomended by coach K

It’s an overreaction to say he is already better than Nate. Nate can create for himself much better on offense and is almost just as pesky on defense.

let’s go DOUG

just giving him props for a good offensive game
his defensive is always there

he will grow
an if he becomes the second coming of JOE DUMARS that A+

yes we all know it was 1 good game by DOUG
but knicks fans don’t always have something good to talk about

let them overreact it’s only normal..

Anybody who think Lebron still wants to come here when we very well may be the worst team in the NBA is delusional. The frickin’ Jazz are gonna get the 1st pick in the draft and get Favors or Aldrich, this team is a joke. I can’t believe all educated basketball fans such as the guys who contribute here actually think we will be able to attract ANY free agent boasting a robust 20 wins and no talent. 8 months from now when LBJ stays in Cleveland what will we do then? We destroyed any chance we had of being a contender last year when we traded Craw and Z-Bo. I’m just so sick of the Knicks being a joke and its not over yet when Utah is on the clock with the option of picking John Wall next June. Ugh.

The truth of the matter is, while Tony D did play great last night he’s made his runs on 20 pt comebacks and things are goin to be a lot different once teams game plan for him…that bein said even tho i still believe there were better pg for the pickin in the draft i do love what Toney D brings to the table…i agree that this system does need a pure PG but he does have what it takes to make it work…what i liked most about this kid is how PISSED he was during post game…it just shows what kinda player he is, he just had a career game and the media finally wants to speak w/ him and he was PISSED OFF THAT WE LOST…He belongs on the NYK. J.HILL would’ve probably been giddy and smiling if it was him seeing how he has that STUPID ASS GRIN ON HIS FACE AFTER EVERY LOSS…and the other players just seem embarrased after losses more scared of the media backlash than the loss, maybe cuz some of them feel like they never had a chance so losin isn’t as hurtful as the media is…
I’ve made my opinion known on DUHON on plenty of posts…DUHON sucks and D’Antoni doesn’t owe him anything so TONY D should def. get more min along w/ HILL…We need to see what Hill’s got. Maybe he’ll be a pleasant surprise like DOUGLAS, I mean he does bring good energy when he’s played in garbage time…
BY THE WAY…the key to winning is gettin off to a good, high energy, start…OUR ONLY WIN CAME WHEN WE LED IN THE 1st QTR. i think Mike D leaves line ups out there too long cuz once shots aren’t fallin we get down and give up…he waits to long to shuffle the line up and get some energy out there

yes HILL should see minutes an u never know how the kid will play an the only way to findout is to PLAY HIM.
what does the knicks have to lose by playing HILL
an he is the 8th overall pick watching
when he should be playing an
som1 needs to slap him an danni boy when they laughing after the game

duhon sucks he has sucked eva since duke.

Yea I’m sick of the Knicks losing too bro. And it makes me sick to my stomach that Utah has our #1 next year. But I don’t know if you’ve been watching, but for the first time in a long time, the Knicks seem to have some direction, and though there are some growing pains now, the benefits will be big later on. We’re not giving huge mid level deals to players like Jerome James and Jared Jeffries. We’re not trading for damaged goods like Antonio McDyess. And we’re not giving up multiple #1 picks. There’s hope even in the losses, let’s try to stay positive somehow!

The key is flexibility, hope, and growth. Right now the Knicks were lacking in all 3 under Layden and Thomas. We’re finally moving right with Gallo, Douglas, Chandler, and Hill. We got some nice young players who hopefully will gain a lot of experience and skill this year, and be paired with an excellent player in 2010 &/or 2011.

Jho- You’re right but it is incredibly hard to see a team not try, watching a bunch of contract guys like Harrington and Hughes flopping around on the court really pisses me off. Sure Gallo and T-Doug have impressed me, Wil too but I just wonder will we ever compete again? It’s been so long that I hav forgotten what it feels like, I was a kid the last time the NYK were competitive and now as a grown man its just been too long. I really dunno anymore, I come here because I know you guys suffer with this team, just like I do, as great basketball fans we deserve a better team than this, this is an embarrassment.

I hear you man, but I really feel this Knicks team is going to turn it around even if this season is lost, as long as our young guys get minutes and develop, that’s big.

Btw, here is something that REALLY encouraged me:

http://www.sny.tv/media/video.jsp

Look at how much weight Eddy Curry has lost! He looks like a new man, for real. If he can show some skill and hustle on D, it’ll be huge if he turns into an asset for us (even if we can’t trade him, at least have him contributing positively for us).

The only way YOU will find out how he will play is if they play him, but I’m sure the coaching staff have a pretty good idea of how he’s gonna play based on the hours and hours they have spent with him.

Based on the few mintues of game I have time I have seen, the kid is no where ready to get meaningful minutes. In a game that was very winnable, like last night, there was no room for him to play. Jeffries was playing a fantastic game, and if they were going to sub in a PF for Harrington it was gonna be Lee.

JHO- Wow, you weren’t kidding man. Curry looks great, that must be the best shape of his life easily. I just don’t get it, this guy is a physical specimen, 7 ft 300 pounds, he could easily dominate on both ends, its just that he hasn’t wanted to put in any work. Seriously, if this guy just got the passion to play he could be as good as Dwight Howard no kidding, but then again people have been saying that about Eddy for the past 10 years.

You’re the man Jeff but I disagree with your statement regarding Nate Robinson. Let’s not overrate Toney Douglas, he doesn’t have Nate’s first step and his ability to create opportunities for his teammates (Robinson creates many opportunities for Gallo in particular) – YET.

Maybe Toney will be better than Nate in the future, but you can’t expect him to have a similar impact this year. I like him though, I hope that he’ll be the starting point guard one day or another.

Co-sign.

And I’ll play devil’s advocate, he led the young Chicago Bulls to the playoffs when he was 21 years old or something. He could have had a HOF career.

By the way, good to see you back Chris.

Biggie was already here before the Knicksfix fiasco.

Best Knicks blog on the net.

theknicksblog.com that is.

for the curry nate fans

if u havn’t seen
http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/currynate091110.html

I would have to disagree with you there, Much, Toney is fast off the dribble(obviously, Nate is quick) and he does well off the pick but no one is rolling.

Yes he is fast off the dribble, but Nate Robinson is a Roadrunner.

Kryptonate SINGLEHANDEDLY beat the Spurs and the Pacers last year, I doubt that Douglas will be good enough to do it this year. I think he’ll be a really good combo guard and maybe one day he’ll be better than Nate, but right now he’s not on the same level. That’s all I’m saying.

Gotcha, Much.