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Just to piggy back on my last post about David Lee, I’m curious where fans, who have actually 
suffered as I have minute per minute (thanks nba.com broadband) in watching the first chunk of the year, see Lee moving forward with the Knicks.
My feedback is that they are bothered by watching Lee at the five, which I totally agree with. I asked him in practice if he liked help in the post and he told me directly that he doesn’t fear anyone but knows his limitations.
And I sympathize. It reminds me of the Kareem (we’re praying for you Captain) scene in Airplane when he talks about draggin’ Walton and Bob Lanier’s butts down the floor for 48 minutes.
When you really analyze the system, aside from a breakdown point guard, the four position needs to be able to guard fours and extend the defender to the perimeter. Lee simply doesn’t.
So for those of you dreaming of having Eddy Curry in the game with Lee, a la a few years ago, I’m here to curb your enthusiasm. It may happen, but it won’t be for long.
Which brings me to my point of Lee’s future in New York. “Experts” tell you that Lee is the team’s biggest asset for attracting a free agent. I don’t buy it. He’s a square peck in a round hole at the 5, and you have to truly understand the 4 postion in this system to realize that. But clearly they are having too much fun at the team’s expense to actually watch and get that. But, hey, they only get paid a couple of bucks per word plus salary to know what they are talking about.
Dealing him may be tricky, because we know he wants to be here. But he’s not the 4 that D’Antoni craves. Boris Diaw is the type, and we’re talking about a player who D’Antoni made exceedingly better after being dealt for Joe Johnson. So to be fair, this system has made the most of the right talent, as Diaw wasn’t a top 20 pick and exceeded under D’Antoni because he could guard the 4 and stretch the floor, which Lee cannot.
Which is why I don’t think Lee is in the team’s future plans. He’s a fan favorite and has been one of my favorite players thanks to his effort, but we know the coach isn’t going anywhere and Lee’s defense it’s a big reason for the team’s struggles.
I can’t see Lee coming off the bench in a backup role, as much as I can’t see him as a 4 or 5 here moving forward.
And for you numbers geeks (I’m a combo geek, 90 percent instict- 10 percent figures) check out 82games.com, which tells you best 5 units. Lee at the 5 has a 5o% winning percentage, which means it may be a challenge to keep him at the 5 moving forward, even with added talent around him.
I mentioned a prospective deal, not a deal I said I would do, but a conversation starter, so put your GM caps on, play amateur GM and come up with a scenario that you could envision utilizing Lee in a trade. Yes, it’s tricky, welcome to Mr. Walsh’s world.
Or do you think that he can be a good top 3 rotation big on a talented team?
Obviously, there are so many ifs in terms of July 1st that the team may be wise to hold on to Lee and hedge their bet.
I’m not sure I would at all. I’d start making the rounds and having a discussion about Lee in exchange for an expiring and a pick and go from there. I think he deserves to be in a position to succeed, win and get paid. Who knows? Maybe they can get a young, cheap PG out of the deal.
I just don’t see his role here being clearly defined and that’s tough for your biggest “asset.”
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I think the reason why Lee didn’t get a lot of offers has more to do with the market and less to do with his worth around the league. Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace signed for bargain basement prices this summer. Detroit and Toronto were the only teams that spent any real money.
Everyone’s saving their money for next summer.
Half the teams in the league are going to have money next summer. It would be foolish for a team to trade for David Lee while he’s in the last year of his contract and can leave the team he got traded for empty handed.
I really think the only way the Knicks trade David Lee is next summer in a sign and trade, to a team he wants to play for. That’s the only scenario that makes sense right now.
Yup Guy, I’m tommy by the way, what’s your name?
Anyway, yes I’m aware of the market.
But why wouldn’t a team at least test donnie if they really wanted him?
Whataya got?
lol what’s with this what’s your name stuff?
Test Donnie how? Why would a team trade for a guy that’s a free agent at the end of the year? Especially when there are so many free agents better than him next summer that you’d essentially just be renting him for this season?
I can’t think of a single team that would do it right now. Let’s go back to your original trade scenario. Let’s say for argument’s sake Lee agreed to go to Charlotte for Raja Bell. What guarantees does Charlotte have that Lee is going to re-sign after this year? If Lee were to leave Charlotte next summer, they essentially gave away Raja Bell for nothing.
And from the Knicks’ POV why would you want to trade a guy like Lee in his prime, who’s one of the better rebounders in the league, lead the league in double-doubles, for a guy who’s best days are behind him?
I’m sorry but that deal just doesn’t make sense to me. And I can’t think of a single deal this season that would make sense for David Lee.
Next summer, it would be in Lee’s best interest to ask the Knicks to sign and trade him because they can pay him more money than any other team, and sign him for more years. The Knicks also benefit because they can get an asset in return, and don’t necessarily have to rely on just hoping to sign a star.
Lee is playing in the 7 mil plus arena..
Why would the Knicks facilitate a sign and trade and take back a contract in the year they want to have enough space to play for Lebron etc.>?.’
lets say Lee gets a 9 mil offer next year. If we facilitated the S&T we would add 9 mil of salary unless the team took back NO players and gave us a future first. In that case we wouldnt have the Raja Bell asset Nor anything but the future (probably protected) first rounder.
So i’d take the first rounder plus something that expires this year and MAY be a fit for D’Antoni at a lower price
The Knicks have the option to sign and trade him if they can’t get the free agents they want. Or if they can only get 1 free agent. This past summer the Knicks weren’t able to take back any big contracts. Next summer they can.
Not saying they will, but it’s an option. If they strike out with all the major FA’s, they can use Lee in a sign and trade and get a good player or 2 back.
so Donnie doesnt renounce Lee and takes the 11-12 mil cap hold (8 mil max x 150%) next year which reduces his available funds to 14 mil (53 cap minus 39 in commitments) ?
THat doesnt bring a max player.. you need 16 at least.
This is an option like I said. If the Knicks strike out with the free agents they’re targeting, they can always do this. They don’t have to renounce Lee’s right on July 1st. They can wait.
Donnie if nothing else shows he’s not one to rush into anything. So you wait. Contact LBJ, Wade, Bosh, etc. Ask them if they’d like to play here. If they say yes, you renounce Lee. If they say no, you hang on to him and keep shopping.
If you end up striking out in free agency, you still have an asset in Lee you can trade for another player or 2..or 3..
That would be an option.. but..
Donnie BETTER NOT wait around to “contact” the top free agents.. He better set his alarm and call Lebron’s agent at 1 second past midnight on July 1.
I dont imagine Lebron doing the city by city tour thing. Could be off base. Trading Lee for another player or two is a decent plan D I guess.. Not sure who that player or 2 would be if a team was wanting to add Lee for say 8 or 9 mil..
Would it be better than Raja Bell and a conditional first rounder today?
Why Raja Bell? You’re gonna give up a good young PF for Raja Bell? How old is that dude anyway? And the thing that I can’t understand is why would David Lee want to go there. You guys keep forgetting in these trade scenarios that he can veto any trade, and will probably only agree to a trade to a team that he’d want to re-sign with. You think he wants to play with Larry Brown again that bad?
And live in Charlotte with his model girlfriend? And play in a system that does the opposite of what Mike D’Antoni’s does for his stats? And play for a team that’s hemmoraging money every year, and who the owner has been trying to sell for a while now?
I mean you guys need to think about all that stuff.
Again, I really don’t see a single team in the NBA trading for David Lee this season. It’s all about next summer.
i think we learned over the Summer that Lee will Pimp himself out to wherever the money is..
regardless of what he has said in the past or may say now.
His GF works on the World Poker Tour.. They travel more than Lee does.
Enough with trading our young guys for old guys, haven’t we learned yet. True, the Knicks need a poInt guard to run the SSOL. Can it be douglas? I guess we will have to wait and see. Center and point are the basic needs and defense. Someone said D’antoni has the wrong players to run his offense, so maybe as the coach he needs to modify the SSOL, to the best shot assoon as it becomes available. The mad bombing of the threes are killing the team.
Why would another team want to do a sign and trade if like you said they can get him as a free agent without giving anything up?
I think what Tommy is saying is why didn’t other teams call Donnie’s bluff as far as not dipping into the 2010 payroll?
He was against upgrading the point guard position because it meant adding 3.5-4 million of 2010 salary obligations. I would imagine Lee would command more than that. So if a team had just offered him a contract starting at 7 mil per, does Walshie blink? Or does he match? We’ll never know because no one wanted a “power” forward who plays 0 defense, one on one, team or otherwise. He doesn’t even give the effort.
the only reason a team would do the S&T is to offer Lee more dollars in a bidding war with another team (not likely)
But i addressed below how retaining the rights to Lee in order to think of trading him screws the max free agent plan.,
I think nobody called Donnie’s bluff because I don’t think anyone wants to miss out on signing a top tier free agent in 2010, because they used their cap space to sign David Lee. Even the Knicks.
They signed Lee to a 1 yr deal for a reason. You think they’d risk the chance of signing Bosh next summer? Or LeBron, etc? What do you tell your fans?
“Sorry we missed out on Chris Bosh or Amare because we signed David Lee to a 4 yr extension and it ate up alot of our cap room.”
NBA GMs are all waiting to pounce on the free agent class of 2010.
The name thing is to just introduce myself. i’m here, and usernames, are impersonal. You seem to know your stuff.
Adding a 3rd second round pick would be interesting to see if they can maybe deal into the first round by using 2.
That way they can ultimately get in the 1st round mix.
Bell can be renounced, like Lee likely will, and be a good piece at a cheap number….
what’s your offer for a summer Sign and trade?
Haha. My name is Nick. (no joke, and no I wasn’t named after the Knickerbockers). A sign and trade I would do…let’s see.
If Toronto thought they’d lose Bosh for nothing, I’d sign and trade Lee and Nate to Toronto for Bosh. That’s a fair deal for both sides. But again, they’d all have to agree to be signed and traded. But that’s the type of deal I’d do.
David Lee almost got us the draft pick that would’ve been O.J. Mayo 2 yrs ago so his value must be pretty high.
of course Toronto could lose Lee and Nate for nothing as well.
If the fairest deal you can come up with is Lee and Nate for Bosh then there is a miles between your perception of Lee’s value and mine.
The trade for the OJ Mayo pick was 2 years ago when Lee was a cheap option. As Donnie said a player can be a good value an asset at one price and a liability at another.
This debate just amplifies the fact Donnie dropped the ball taking Lee off the market around the deadline last year.
I proposed the Toronto thing as a sign and trade since Tommy’s asking what kind of sign and trade I’d do. Obviously that’s a wild scenario. I don’t think either Nate or Lee would agree to go to Toronto, nor would Toronto make that trade, but since we’re playing the wild speculation game, lol, this is my trade.
Like I said, I don’t think a single team in the league would trade for Nate or Lee this season. If Lee or Nate want the most money and the most amount of years they can get, they need to be patient next summer, and hope the Knicks would do them the favor of signing and trading them to a team they want to go to.
If not, they can be some team’s Plan C, if they strike out with one of the elite FA’s.
Yeah Nate and lee for bosh isn’t even in the ballpark.
Lee isn’t the 4 here. And i don’t think he’s the 5.
nor is he a bench role player.
Tommy- this isn’t the NFL, multiple 2nd round picks don’t have that much value
It doesn’t matter next year is shaping upo as a very talented year. We could possibly get Lance Stephenson in the 2nd Round.
But I have a question for you guys how available do you think O.J. Mayo is?
True, but they’re great for filling up a roster that has 2 max contracts on it, though.
By the way, speaking of defense, this is from Q-Rich on why he is playing great defense in Miami:
“The defensive schemes at first were a little difficult,” Richardson said. “I came from a place (New York) where it was completely opposite. We (the HEAT) force baseline and things like that. We never did that at previous places I was at. We never really had principles and things like that.”
If that doesn’t spell it out and knock No ‘D’ D’Antoni, then nothing ever will. MD is the wrong coach at the wrong time for the NY Knicks.
Defense isn’t the main problem here. We have came back from 25 in every loss we have taken but not having a go to guy to finish it out really hurt us and not having a leader to stop all the BS happening on the court.
His new name is Traded Lee
Not sayin he’s going to be traded…just food for thought Bart…er what’s your last name?
I’m Tommy Dee….nice to meet you.
I read a lot of peoples post that say use lee to get rid of curry. Find me a team thats going to take $11M of Curry and $7M + signinng him long term… Or just using Lee for a 1 year rental?
I don’t see anyone trading for Lee and give anything good up. Knicks aren’t going to resign him unless its at a major discount $5M a year or so. He isn’t getting $10M from anyone. Teams who want him can probably get him next year and chances are that could be good for us. Only 10-13 teams have cap space but everyone will hold out for the bigger names first. S&T for lee next year is our best bet. Same goes for Nate.
One other thing. Its sucks for Lee that D Antoni doesn’t understand what a center is. For crying out loud the guy is playing SF at center position. Lee isn’t the best defender but hes our best rebounder and finisher. If it wasn’t for Curry and Jeffries being here they sign him long term next year.
I’m still waiting for the day Lee plays at the 4 with a REAL center next to him.
I think Lee could be a decent defender with a Center next to him and having a real pg that can run this system. I’d like him here next year but not at his price. Sadly i just don’t see him here unless Curry and Jeffries are gone, and yes it has to be both of them not one of them.
Here come the Lee fan boys.. DUCK!!!
Seriously.. Ive been down for trading this guy for over a year. I said on the other post I would move ANYONE in the right deal..
If it brought a young expensive star or set us up for two max superstars next year Hells yeah..
I think a team trading for Lee TODAY has the advantage of his Bird rights. They can come back with a better cntract offer for more years than anyone else and try to force a sign and trade even with a UFA (as long as they have Bird rights).
Spot on in the 4 spot analysis. And we’ve seen what an awful 5 Lee is.
Fergot to add my trade..
How about San Antonio for Matt Bonner and an unrestricted first rounder three/four years out?
Can we get this years as well? May be too much to ask for.
How about Blair & Hill?
Doesn’t Lee lose his Bird Rights if he approves a trade after signing a one year contract?
I think that just applies to players who accept the qualifying offer.
HEY BESIDE GALLO,im ready to trade every knick
Without crunching numbers, OKC has multiple picks and/or Sefolosha, Mullens as trade assets & is actually under the cap to make any combination of trades to work.
Blazers – Outlaw &/or Bayless
i think OKC just extended Sefolosha.. But they are a good target.. thing is they had the room and passed over the summer.
What about Minny for Rubio ?
Why do you think OKC passed on signing David Lee? Don’t you think OKC knows about 2010 too? Why would they jeopardize their cap space for next summer for a guy like Lee this year?
And why would Minnesota trade for David Lee when they have Kevin Love and Al Jefferson? Why would David Lee agree to be traded there if he didn’t want to go to a small market like Memphis 2 yrs ago?
i think OKC would be a good target from a personnel standpoint but pointed out it was unlikely cause they passed over the summer.
Minny?Maybe genius David Kahn has another deal up his sleeves for Love? Who the hell knows. Just throwing out possible fits not cosigning anything.
At this point all we can really hope for is cap filler and a future number one.. Cause he will walk away for nothing in the off season. So a Raja Bell type and a future first is about right.
Not that this applies to Lee, but:
I think it could be a mistake to build a team around a coach’s gimmick offensive philosophy, because if/when that coach leaves you may have a bunch of players that can’t fit into the next coach’s system. For instance, I’m assuming once _’antoni gets his way the Knicks will be devoid of a center and probably a be without a 4 as well (Marion is not a 4 in any other coach’s system) we’ll see, just a thought.
_’antoni convinced Walsh to pass on one of the better centers to come out of the draft in a long time, he can play with his back to the basket and he has range on his jumper to 18 feet (I think he would have been good in any coach’s system). I love (ok I like a lot, not quite in love yet lol) Galinari, but like I always say when building a team the point and the center are the hardest positions to fill.
For instance, Howard isn’t a traditional back to the basket big guy, he is a great defensive presence, I think even he would languish on _’antoni’s bench because he doesn’t have a jumper.
I’m not sure if you’re really understanding D’antoni’s system. The 5 in his system is supposed to be able to attack the basket off penetration passes, PnRs and fast breaks, not hit jumpers. Every system needs paint scoring, including D’antoni’s. Stoudemire didn’t stuff stats by hanging around the elbow.
Do I think Lopez would have been successful in this system? Yeah, for the most part. Is the system built to his strengths? Not entirely. The Knicks aren’t the only team that passed on Lopez. Gallo is a big asset and has the potential to become a one of the biggest match up nightmares in the game and could still prove to be better than Lopez in the long run. It could be worse, we could have picked Joe Alexander, I’m not gonna dwell on it and blame the coach.
no shots
You’re right and I realized my error as I pressed “Add comment” lol. My main point was that choosing player based solely based on a non-traditional system could get a franchise into trouble in the long run.
Marion is not a 4. Never was, never will be. It’s nice to have the ability to go small at times, but as the main idea for an offense it hasn’t proved it can make it into the Finals. It works in the regular season, as Don Nelson has proved by being one of the most winningest coaches in NBA History. However, what Don Nelson has also proved, or been unable to disprove, is that plaing unorthodox, fast-paced, high-scoring lineups, while entertaining, cannot make it to the Finals.
Furthermore _’antoni’s flippant attitude toward defense doesn’t mix with this city (he barely flinches when the other team score 110+ on his teams and points out only that his team “didn’t make shots” as the reason for losses, with a chuckle no less) and eventually that will wear thin on the fans (it already has with me). Deep down I feel he was hired to lure a top level free agent more than anything else, but if he does remain past the length of his current deal he will have to put a defensive scheme into place and demand it be executed, he will be finishing his coaching career in europe.
Edit:
[otherwise] he will be finishing his coaching career in europe.
i agree totaly with that ,and have been thinking about it for a long time.i think that Donnie Walsh picking an unconventional coach was a HUGE,HUGE MISTAKE for this franchise.Walsh is pretty old and can retire in two years(actually:any time he wants.Dantoni isnt a new york kind of guy and will prolly be gone in a couple of years also)if we had signed a TOM THIBODEAUX.AND in 3 or 4 years he decides to leave ,at least your team knows how to play very sound dee-fence.if Dantoni n walsh go ,the team is in shambles again…WALSH gets a “D” for coach hire
Traded Lee- Great
He’s outta here. Double doubles- yeah ,he plays no D and waits under/around the basket for a clunker and rebounds it. And he does PNR’s with Duhon.He shoots like he’s from1950.He certaintly doesn’t get offensive rebounds. He swats..whats that? Hill took an O reb. the other night- it was nice. EFFORT!
DW is going to get rid of them ALL.
Gallo,TD23,Landry,Nate stay- there will be no-one left.
Maybe a few stragglers. Jarrod (Duh) Jefferes. Maybe not…
They lose every time Lee is on the court..every year.
No-one will take him cuz he plays no D.can’t catch and shoot.
he is a stats player.
no sign and trade -its time to go.
play out the year and see ya
Minnesota might trade Rubio for Lee. Kahn was dumb enough to draft 2 point guards so he might take Lee and have 3 power forwards. I Like Lee but all I want is a good team. Maybe if Lee gets traded Jordan Hill will finally get Minutes. It sucks that he gets picked 8th and doesn’t get minutes when the team is Brutal. I want to see him play and develop.
Lee isn’t costing Hill minutes, D Antoni’s 4 SF lineup is whats costing him minutes. Hill should be playing center even tho he isn’t one but he’s more a center then david lee ever will be.
MANX NEEDS A WOMAN
Tommy,
I can’t say I understand SSOL well, but I do get the gist of having a PF that can create space. To be honest, this sort of fits into my theme that D’Antoni is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. His system requires certain types of players, but he doesn’t have them. So instead of trying to devise something that will work with the players he has, he’s trying to make them play his system. That’s partly why they are failing badly. I think that’s a reasonable summary of what’s going on and IMHO a justifiable reason to criticize the coach a little.
David Lee can’t defend the C position at all . He can barely defend against good PFs. But if we had a real C, then Lee at PF would be excellent……just not in this system if you are going to insist that the PF has to be a good outside shooter.
All that said, I haven’t checked the stats, but IMO Lee’s outside game has definitely improved this year. I wouldn’t write him off.
I suppose Harrington is more of the kind of player that coach wants at PF. Unfortunately, he’s a black hole once he gets the ball, can rebound well for a PF, makes WAY to many dumb mistakes, and turns the ball over too much. Basically, IMO he should barely even get minutes.
You both have good points, Harrington is a black hole and is constantly making dumb mistakes and taking Bad shots and Hill should get time at Center he needs the minutes to build confidence and get better.
best case scenario is to either trade Lee in a package to get rid of Jeffries’s contract, or, I’m reaching here, to get rid of Eddy’s contract. Similar to the deal that was rumored to be in place last summer with Sacremento involving N8 Rob.
I think trading for an expiring makes sense, or even a player with 2 years left if the salary matches up to Jeffries’ or Eddy’s, then atleast you have a guy that you can use with no impact on the 2010 plan and some roster shakeup, which this team desperately needs.
NY and Lee really need to move on from each other. They are a terrible fit. Lee is overmatched at Center and would be an incredible PF on a winning team. He deserves to go to a team where he can actually have the opportunity to learn how to win and play in a winning culture. And the Knicks really need to try some new options at Center, including Darko and Jordan Hill. Lee’s too good to sit, but he’s horrendous in this system on both ends of the floor.
This is really reaching, but it would be an even better scenario if a team like OKL city (who has about 20 first rounds picks over the next 3 years) would fork over some picks for Lee.
Get it done Donnie, Lee deserves to move and and Knicks fans deserve a roster shakeup. We really can’t sit through many more games with this team.
I disagree here with most of the comments on this board. I think Lee is the perfect 4 in this system, and a great 4 in any system if you have the scorers and a shot blocker to anchor the team. We can clearly see that he has been trying to extend his jumper and has the confidence to take it, as well as the ability to drive on other bigs. He just cannot compete against the 5s of the league. With the right help he can be a 4 on a championship team here or wherever we let him go.
The fact remains that without a dominant scorer a la (god-willing) Lebron or a Wade, no matter who is on this team they wont be able to compete for a finals anytime soon. With all the missed picks over the years we havent had a chance to swing and connect on a big time scorer. If we can get lebron or wade and an athletic 5 who can block shots lee would round out a solid top 5 eastern conference team. Lee at the 4 , along with gallo’s progression, additon of some sort of presence in the middle at the 5, hopefully our ‘10 scorer, and someone who can handle the ball and knock down shots, is a recipe for a legitemate finals team.
I think David Lee could be a good fit, but D’Antoni would have to make some adjustments. He’s a beast offensively, but he cannot guard centers night in and night out (even though he played well against Dwight Howard last year).
Donnie Walsh will have to make a decision though. If he doesn’t want to resign Lee next summer – then he should trade him when his trade value reaches its peak.
A lottery pick or a talented young player (Jerryd Bayless?) is the minimum. David Lee’s a beast period, we can’t afford to lose him for nothing.
Well it’s already too late to trade Lee at his peak value. Right now we’re at the point of diminishing returns, Tommy made a good point that a role player & 2nd rounder might be the best we get for him. I think the best situation is try to package Lee to get Curry or Jeffries for an expiring.
I agree, that’s why I (along with Biggie) was “asking” for a trade last year. The fact that DW took him off the market was ridiculous.
I wanted David Lee for Anthony Randolph.
David Lee clearly fits if you are looking for a talented player. This team needs a few really good scorers to make this a winning team. Lee can only do so much with the players around him. The players who DW brought in are here because of their expiring contracts. No fan ever thought any of these players were going to vastly improve when they got to the Knicks. None have vastly improved. I think we all agree there is less talent on this team than 2 years ago. Even Tom Thibodeaux couldn’t win games with this bunch. DW has a plan and that is to bring in talented players for the 2010 season. Personally I hope Lee is around when the good times come.
I agree with Joe.
Knix should keep Lee. He is a superior rebounder and plays great team ball and is perfect for D’A running game. Yes, he has his flaws, but on a good roster he will look even better than we’ve seen. Knix won’t be able to build a team with 8 solid players just by buying it — there are 29 other teams competing for the best FA’s. Lee is good for 30 mins a game as a 6th man if they get a decent PF.
Sry guys but you couldn’t be more wrong. Lee does not fit into Coach D’s system. Coach D like’s his 4’s on the perimeter. Marion and Diaw were often found in the corner’s in his spread motion offense with the 3 on the opposite side. The 2 guard would be foul line extended allowing the lane to be open for his play making PG and C for the pick and role. I can tell most of you guys never watched Phoenix play in the D’Antoni era. His best squad was with Nash, Joe Johnson, Q, Marion and Amare. Barbosa off the bench. They ran is offense perfect. You had multiple ball handlers/movers and shooters with an athletic 5. Believe it or not LeBron does not even fit in this system. My ideal line up would be PG CP3, SG Joe Johnson SF Gallo PF Chandler C Bosh. Btw, please stop drinking the Lee cool-aid. He is not a starting 4 or 5. On a contender he comes off the bench. I actually think the best fit for him is in Portland behind Aldrige and Oden. He could even work in Denver but I doubt a defensive oriented coach like George Karl would want him.
I understand Lee not fitting the system.
But Lebron not fitting the system. Are you serious? Can you explain please how Lebron does not fit into this system? I think Lebron can adjust to play in any system.
Yes, he does – LBJ would be the de facto 1 as well as a 2.
D’A know he needs inside rebounders. He is not crazy enough to want only outside shooters. No NBA team has ever had all perimeter forwards and D’A like Lee for his inside game.
Btw, I don’t view Bosh and Joe Johnson as max contract guys. I Bosh’s case the Knicks might just have to pony up to sign him…
Lee/Jeffries/Hughes for McGrady/Cook
I didn’t like David Lee’s attitude last year and I thought his stats were hugely inflated. But I WAS WRONG, he’s really a beast offensively… and obviously he’s a great rebounder.
I hope that he’ll be here next year but I can’t see it happening unless Donnie Walsh finds a way to trade both Jeffries and Curry…
We just can’t afford to lose him for cheeseburgers. The Blazers and the Nuggets love him, they need a player like David Lee and they have some young players the Knicks c/should be interested in (Ty Lawson, Jerryd Bayless, JR Smith) but his $7 million contract is an obstacle, there’s no fit from a financial standpoint. Maybe David Lee and a 2010 second-round pick for Travis Outlaw and Jerryd Bayless?
Why would Portland want him after what they gave Aldridge?
Because they need easy buckets – Aldridge is a jumpshooter and a poor rebounder. Lee’s actually a great fit for the Blazers, and money’s not problem.
People on the blog think DW is going to be able to build a complete playoff team next year. Little chance of that happening. It will take at least 3 more yrs to build a solid playoff team — step by step. And it’s senseless to get rid of everyone for 1 or 2 stars. Lee helps the team. Unless DW can get a defensive rebounding stud for him, Lee should stay.
Obviously you are discounting then the Knicks signing Lebron or Wade. I know at least in Lebron’s case, he makes ANY team he goes to a “complete” playoff team. You can legitimately argue that Lebron has been carrying the Cavs without a legit 2nd star all these years. Ilgauskas? Mo Williams? No, I don’t think so.
LBJ — one player — make any team a complete playoff team? He plays all 5 positions at once and has won a championship?
LeBron needs the ball in his hands. Unless you put him at the 1 I don’t see it working. To me LeBron is a 3 more suited in a half court offense. Don’t get me wrong I would love to have my favorite player in the league play for my Knicks but where would he fit?
Anywhere he wants. The team would be tailored around him. Any coach who does not do that would get fired, like Doug Collins with MJ.
I like Lee and I agree he has improved his game but his lack of defense is what kills him. There is no doubt about his rebounding prowess. He’s an elite rebounder.
I’d do Jerryd Bayless and and Outlaw for Lee.
I would not trade Lee this year unless I get a mid 1st round pick. Idk what Curry will give us at this point.
You guys don’t seem to get it. Who’s going to trade a first round pick for David Lee when he can just walk away at the end of the year? Why on earth would Portland trade Jerryd Bayless and Travis Outlaw for him when he can walk away at the end of the season and leave Portland with nothing?
They’re going to give away 2 players for a guy who may not even re-sign with them? Come on guys. This isn’t Fantasy Basketball. Personally, I think it’s a waste of time coming up with wild trade scenarios just for the sake of doing it. I’m beginning to think this place is becoming the National Enquirer of Knicks Blogs, where anything goes.
Tommy you should know better.
*meant to say I would not do Bayless and Outlaw for Lee.
td, great work.
i love dl’s work rate and consistency.
unfortunately, i think the prob with dl is:
-he makes several bad fouls a game, which shows his athletic limitations.
he is not that fast laterally, and he complains to the refs and gives that side look to the bench way too much;
-he has very bad defensive awareness so he can’t make smart steals or plays in the paint; he can’t read the game as quickly as he needs to;
-he doesn’t block out well against strong opponents;
-why isn’t he in the game in key moments of the 4th qtr?
all these things are seen by opponents.
thus i fear, as luck would have it for us knick fans, he isn’t as big an asset as we think.
i wish he could see tapes of willis reed (yes, a similar type of player size wise and positionally) and learn from it.
Lee is a great asset. The prob is there is too much pressure on everyone because the roster sux, and everyone looks bad when the team can’t win. On a decent roster he might be an all-star — his defensive flaws would not show as much, but he is no PF stud like an Oakley. I’ll take a defensive stud over Lee if they can get one.
Again this emphasis on “system” makes no sense. D’Antoni says you win when you score more points than your opponent. Isn’t that every coaches system. You win with good players. Any coach will emphasis what he has to win. Playing good defense won’t work it your team can’t outscore the other team. We need players. D’Antoni will coach to their strengths.
I mentioned I would not trade Lee (unless it’s for a 1st rounder) because I am unsure of what we will be left with upfront for this season. Too soon to tell what Curry will give us. As stated above Lee is a great fit for Portland. I just don’t see many teams looking to sign him at the money he wants. I also don’t see Lee as a starter.
I agree Lee’s not a starter on a good team, but part of the reason why David didn’t want to go to Portland in the summer was because he said he looked at their roster and didn’t think he was going to get alot of minutes behind Oden, Aldridge, Pryzbilla. And he’s right.
I think whoever wants David Lee in 2010 is going to get him for under 8 million dollars and will use him as a fringe starter, or a key reserve.
Lee didn’t want to go to Portland? Where did you get that information?
I think Pritchard prefered Paul Millsap and he knew that DW would match at $8 million – I don’t think it was David Lee’s decision.
@ joetheknick are you kidding me? That post made absolutely no sense! As we saw from the Marbury saga and his previous spot in Phx. Coach D will not change his philosophy or his style of coaching. Walsh knew what he was getting into when he hired him and Walsh will get him the type of player he needs for his system. Most of the players on this roster will not be here next year. Only Gallo, Chandler, Douglas and maybe Hill if he develops fits this system.
I don’t know what doesn’t make sense. D’antoni wants high percentage scorers like any other coach. We know he won in PHX with a high shooting percentage team. Walsh and D’Antoni knew they were dealing with a total rebuild. They are half way home. I don’t believe a defensive minded coach could do any better with this team.
D’A and DW are smart enough to know they need rebounders like Lee to get the ball to the scorers. Lee is valuable, he fills an essential role. DW would not have signed him if he weren’t. D’A never had a great rebounder or any defesnive players except Marion. Players like Amare don’t win titles w/o great centers and defensive PFs. If only Lee could learn how to play physical defense. He has no knack for throwing his weight around. He should be locked in a room and forced to watch Dave DeBusschere films for a month. Paul Silas was also great — they should hire him to tutor Lee.
DTR
Good stuff. We are on the same page.
I could be wrong but I thought it was the PG’s job to get the ball to scorers. Yes Lee does fill an essential role. Off the bench. His defense or lack there of makes him a major liability upfront. He is not a starter.
Rebounders feed the ball to PGs and forwards in a running game too, right?
For the money Lee wants though. He will not be back…
Walsh signed Lee back because he had no other alternative. If Walsh wanted Lee so bad why wait so close to training camp to sign him? Why not give him a 4 year extension?
Lee’s defense isn’t good. He doesn’t block shots.He gets a lot of scores mostly because the rest of the team is terrible. He would barely make the rotation on a championship caliber team (think Lakers, where would he play? How much? 15 minutes a night?)
He is a good player for the Knicks, and a classy guy, but if the salary cap is $50 million, the Knicks can’t afford to give him much more than 10% of that. Which probably won’t be enough, given his over-inflated value.
If the Knicks can get back draft picks, a PG and/or salary cap relief by including JJ or EC, then he should be used as trade bait. His value is high now and the Knicks could easily lose him for nothing next Summer.
Lee + Curry to Rockets for T-Mac makes some sense, for both sides. I wonder if the Rockets would give up Aaron Brooks if we threw in Chandler (or Nate?) probably not.
@ Will H. Great Post.
David Lee would barely make the rotation on a championship caliber team? Is the grass always greener on the other side of the fence? Maybe if you’re talking about a Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom frontcourt, but come on…
I think David Lee would be a starter for the San Antonio Spurs and for the Orlando Magic. Granted he has to play better defense and he commits too many stupid fouls, but he’s a really GOOD player. Portland would be such a great fit – I think the Blazers are the best trade partners.
We’re not going to get a lottery pick from anyone, and we proved that we can buy a late first rounder whenever we want, anyway. So… drum roll…
Lee and Curry for McGrady. I don’t think Houston is in the hunt for 2010 cap space, and they could use another PF. This, of course, is just a fantasy, and not likely.
I also see Sloan loving Lee. Trust me if you throw him in as the third big (with boozer gone), as a PF in that offense, his defense will look fine. (boozer is a good defender, but he doesn’t block shots either, btw. That’s not a true measure.)
Also, Jazz have no room next summer no matter what. So either something like Lee and jeffries for boozer and our pick? Or Lee and Chandler for harpring, Korver, and our pick? i would straight up trade chandler for our pick back.
I haven’t really thought these through, just my stream of consiousness
Utah is not dealing with us. Period.
Chandler nor Lee were lottery picks and even with that draft to do over they still wouldn’t be. No way Utah trades that pick back to the Knicks knowing it is a lottery pick.