Don’t Fear the Rebuild

It’s not rebuilding until the young guns are playing the majority of the
minutes. Hill sitting on the bench, Gallo taking only 8 shots a game, TD being removed from the starting lineup because he’s not Duhon & Will being forced to play out of position and out of his element. When these things are repaired then we will officially be rebuilding.

AL, Hughes & Nate taking 45-50 shots a game is not rebuilding. Duhon going through the motions for 40 minutes a night is not rebuilding.

If all the talk now is about “rebuilding” the right way why does Donnie get a pass on taking Lee off the Market at the deadline and not moving Nate when this now “horrible roster” was making a fools gold run at the eight seed with 5 other flawed teams?

Because ” In Donnie we trust” followers will tell you that taking your most valuable trade asset of the market and losing him to free agency was a brilliant move.

Great post!

I wish you guys would stop bringing up this alleged Nate robinson trade. Multiple sources have said that nothing was imminent there.

If the Media doesnt give Walsh and the Knicks a hard time who will. They should get blasted everyday until this team is better.

I also am getting a little tired of those sappy apologist for DA and Walsh dripping excuses, alibis, and revisionist bull crap and then blaming us because Walsh moves (or lack of moves) stink, DA’s coaching stink and this team stink! I wish they would put down their shovel for one day!

IN short .. I dont think I or any other fan “fears the rebuild”.

I know I question the route to get there and the turns along the way.

The theory of 2010 is sound but the fans and Donnie and MDA should not all just go into cryogenic sleep until July 1, 2010.

I fear the fact that we’re not really rebuilding.

Jordan Hill has to play, Toney Douglas should be in the starting line-up and D’Antoni has to run some plays for Danilo Gallinari.

I don’t care if the vets are not willing to understand that, D’Antoni has to follow the rebuilding process and develop our young players. Our vets will not see major money next summer with a 1-81 record anyways.

Tommy, I agree with rebuilding this team. But maybe Mike D’antoni should believe in the same thing. Like EQ1217 said: “It’s not rebuilding until the young guns are playing the majority of the minutes.” If the veteran’s are playing like zombies, then sit them on the bench and let them deal with the consequences next summer.

people need to understand this
when u have a team like the knicks
an your drafting in the top 10
u don’t pick a guy that’s going to be a project
u take the guy that can come in a help rite away something u knicks havn’t done an donnie hasn’t either..

i don’t know what hill can become but play the f-ing guy he is the 8 pick..

an gillan might be detlef shrimps
got the same speed almost the same height got the range….

man danni boy is a bad coach plan an simple

yes we all know this team suck but the coaching isn’t much better than the roster…

donnie better hope an pray 2010 don’t blow up in this face like a bad case of pimples…

goodluck knicks fans

Tommy,
No shot but this is regarding another post where you dismiss Carlos Arroyo,
I can tell you that he would have been a major upgrade on Chris Duhon.
I watched Arroyo play last night for the Heat and his ball handling, passing ability,
and overall court vision is 10 times better than Duhon’s. Don’t sleep Arroyo has skills and plays with heart and grit.
I’m not saying that our record would be better with him but don’t sleep on Arroyo,he would have been a huge step up for us and I don’t know why Walsh didn’t sign him or a guy like Jason Williams. If Walsh didn’t draft a PG then why did he not sign a cheap 1 year option. If Walsh didn’t realize that this team had no chance with Duhon at PG then I really question Donnie Walsh on this one.

Duhon looks tired 5 minutes into every game. He is quite possibly the worst pg in the NBA for D’Antoni’s system

right here. here’s my problem.

sorry DGK but to use detlef as an example shows a DISTINCT lack of insight and you know you’re my boy.

Detlef was a VERY solid NBA player for a long time. You want gallo to be Dirk? great. the difference between dirk and detlef wasn’t much my friend.

Gallo is already a better shooter, but Detlef was the glue on the Seattle teams, had a huge impact on the mavs early as well as the pacers playoff teams.

recognize. He’s no joke. Averaged almost 20 twice. If gallo turns into Detlef with a better shot then he was a GREAT pick.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/detlef_schrempf/index.html

AS far as not playing Hill and turning the team over to the kids is fine.

Whose to say that Lee HAD a market that didn’t impact 2010? Like I said if he thinks he’s getting 12 million than what is scola getting? I think the NBA saw what lee is.

I’ve been down on Lee,he’s still a very good player, but let’s face it, his value might not ever have been that high.

SO to think they “held on to him” may be a misread.

as much as like calling Gallo the next detlef something as if it were something bad….

where were all of you people in the summer when i was saying he sucked and was out of shape and i heard things like if anyone played as many minutes as he did they would break down? the guy stinks. i said it all along. he is a chubby out of shape waste of space on the roster.

fair enough, but how many games does arroyo make this group better?

Duhon is under contract and I wouldn’t want to sacrifice TD’s minutes.

but yes arroyo is better than duhon…

I wasnt a member of this site… so not here.

DaGawD_KnowLedge is right on point …

“when u have a team like the knicks an your drafting in the top 10 u don’t pick a guy that’s going to be a project u take the guy that can come in a help rite away something u knicks havn’t done…”

so is BiggieSmalls: nobody “fears the rebuild” but questions “the route to get there & the turns along the way” …

when a connection the coach has with a potential draft pick’s father is part of your decision (2008) , or you don’t draft for an absolute need (PG-BJ3) when plans A & B are scuttled (2009), true fans have every right to complain.

The “shortsightedness” that Dan@Knicksfanblog attributes to the fans should really be directed at DW and D’Ant for not properly drafting & developing while, paraphrasing BIG, everything else goes into “cryogenic sleeep” stage till 2010 !

you were right…but to be fair duhon is playing far worse than last year.

So was Steph … vasoline & all !

okay but let’s look at it fairly.

Gallo, Douglas and Hill.

No one is talking about Brook lopez anymore, and I have to be honest, I never heard a net fan say “thank GOSH we have Brook!!”

I was more KNICK fans saying “WHY DIDN’T WE TAKE HIM!!!”

knee jerk reactions…

Jury is still out either way on him and gallo has proven to be healthy (despite most people saying he wouldn’t be again knee jerk) and I’m happy we have him…always have been even tho he was european and we hadn’t had much luck with them despite never seeing gallo play (knee jerk)

Just like HIll.

In fact, the jury is still out on all players from drafts 3 years ago, Jennings included although he’s killing it.

So to KILL Walsh for lack of drafting IS EXACTLY what we’re talking about being shortsighted.

Name a GM who has a perfect draft record….

It’s a far less number than fans who say “We should have drafted this guy”

you can do it all the time.

People thought Wilson chandler was a steal.

I’m not down on will but like brook, people stop using examples out of convenience.

It’s too early to tell.

channing frye is still in the league, starting AND playing well….

Also when will Nate Robinson learn to shut his mouth, the answer is never.
I thought that after last year and the summer driving incident that he would learn a little humility and to shut his trap once in a while, but he has not.
I think Nate has skills but not enough skills to be yappin to other players and refs the way he does. Someone needs to tell Nate that there are so many better players than him, and trust me there are many, that are so much more humble than he is. I like Nate and I believe he has talent but def not enough to justify all that sh** coming out his mouth. I realized the guy is just a lost cause, again how does Donnie Walsh not see this. Nate will never be a great player and his downfall will be his mouth. Can you just play hard and be quiet!!

At the end of the day, I think Gallinari will be better than Brooke Lopez.

No one knows by how many games Arroyo makes this group better, but one thing is for sure our PG would give us a chance to somehow compete, with Duhon we have no chance it’s as simple as that.
Duhon isn’t good at anything, crap ball handling, crap shooting, crap passing, crap defense, you can’t find a worst starting PG in the whole league.

Im kinda mad we didn’t pull the trigger on that Blake and Outlaw for Lee trade.

We need to make a trade for a Point Guard plain and simple. I am Toney’s BIGEST supporter but Like I have said I see him as a Jason Terry more than a Jason Kidd.
If its Monta Ellis, CP3, Steve Blake..we need a motivated Point Guard to turn this season around.

and thats good combo Point than a Pure PG.
For all you literal people out there.

hes not playing that much worse than he did last year,last year he had one good spurt,thats it.by Walsh making the all the right moves ,we could have at least been better than we are right now,but it seems most of his moves (draft mostly )have totaly sucked!the only move i like was drafting gallo,even the hiring of d’antoni seems dumb,cuz you shouldnt build your team around a coaching style.any GM with half a brain wouldve tried to rid themselves of zach and jamaals contract,dwalsh said he would remain somewhat competetive during the rebuild,and we couldnt be any worse(i blame this on the d’antoni hiring)we couldve had all the young guys at least learning nba defense,but w/d’antoni at the helm ,we’re not even doing that

great post tommy. not only that but EVERY analyst was saying that walsh made the right pick by taking jordan hill because he was the best player available. no one thought jennings would be this good, including the bucks. on the other hand, i think this organization needs someone younger/willing to take risks. imo walsh is a little too conservative.

you cant turn back the clock. the past is the past. lets look forward to eddy curry coming back hopefully ready to go so we can package him god willingly to say the mavs.

it doesnt matter who is on this roster next year anyway. if donnie can say to lbj heres a max deal now choose between joe johnson and bosh (i doubt d wades coming) to give another close to max or max deal then thats all that matters.

once again, thank god for Gallinari… can you imagine if we didnt have him?

i wasn’t trying to diss gillan
i was a fan of detlef
he was a good player
so if gillan can be him with a better shot that’s A+

as for LEE i always liked him but his energy has been down the past few games
an he is what he is.

donnie has next year to prove himself

but this team sucks
an i can’t blaim the players only
the coach has alot to do with it also.

enjoy your sunday night TOMMY.

I like Gallo but If you asked me if he was the right pick, def not.
Yes the guy is a pure shooter but what else does he bring so far, nothing. He is still very young but I’m not sold he will become a superstar, I would even bet against it.
I think Eric Gordon would have been the right pick, the guy is a stud and people who do not believe that have not watched him play.
He will be a really solid PG for a long time in this league, exactly what the team needs, i see him as Andre Miller or Mike Bibby type of quality player, guys who had better carreers than any other knicks PG’s in the last 15 years.

Tommy-

Are there really Net fans out there? You can’t compare how vocal the two fanbases are, they are light night and day.

The problem with the Hill pick is that he was not a PG plain and simple. We didn’t need another PF, Donnie wanted to keep Lee and is on record of saying that he sees Gallo as a PF. D’antoni said before the 08 draft that he needed an engine to run the 7SOL and we still have a clunker.

This is not about saying we should have drafted so and so ( I thought Alexander was going to be a stud, so what do I know) this is about drafting for need & the need was a PG.

who do you think we can trade to land either ellis or cp3…. the hornets are cutting back but can you imagine their fan base if they traded the best pg in the game? were NOT trading Gallinari obviousally, so do u honestly think we can get a deal down for cp3.

me and u bob were right on duhon, but we were WRONG on sessions. the kid has clearly regressed. anyway, no sense of harping on what donnie should have done lets look forward to what he can do.

lmao
stop messing with marbury man
he is a ustream hit.

nope not in the slightest…but I had to have more than one or two names on the list of PG’s…it just wouldn’t sound right reading it.

And I know what you mean by combo, but could TD be a future 2 instead of the 1 on this team? Is Joe Johnson less of a target given that possibility? (Q’s are to anyone)

Tommy since your the PG of Knick information I would think of all people you would now the importance of a PG in this system.

No disrespect but your personal respect for Donnie seems to cloud your journalistic integrity. The failure to add even a back-up PG was a monumental failure it will hurt the development of the young players.

nate is what he is, al harrington is what he is, same with david lee. we just need to get through this season and hopefully donnie can move curry and or jj. it isnt right to blame guys like lee, nate, and al. there NOT superstars… they are nice complimentary players at best. thats all they will ever be.

Look at David’s horrible defense: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z8qoZV3yaE

So I’m curious how people know Gordon is going to be light years better than toney douglas.

Just saying.

those are not bad picks
i like DOUG alot

but who are your scouts or who are u talking with or consulting u on players to pick….

i don’t give no1 a pass wish i owned my own news paper
the knicks would be bashed nite in an out

just case your in rebuilding mode doesn’t mean u gotta suck like how the knicks have sucked

the fans are basically going to the garden to watch the other team..

Im sorry Coward Lee’s horrible defense! Get him outta here, Donnie!

i think what donnie says and what donnie does is two totally different animals. why would donnie say i dont want to bring lee back, that would kill his trade value. so, of course he is going to say how much he loves lee. however, i 100 percent agree this team desperately needs a floor general…. and i have no idea where he is going to get us one. i was calling for ramon sessions like many others on this blog but we were wrong. i think we were so desperate we were willing to take any young kid with potential. i hope its ricky rubio one day.

as far as scoring DOUG is rite there with him or 1 step behind

I’d trade gallinari in a millisecond to get Paul. I would literally tell the hornets they can pick whatever five players on the team they want and take them.

LMAO @ Al Harrington. This is when I knew the season was lost!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Yg-d7JOxs

I think he’ll be – but that’s another question.

there are spirits in the garden watch carefully u see it was slapped out his hand…lmao..

i think LEE can play D but it’s not in his heart to play it..

No one is talking about Brook lopez anymore, and I have to be honest, I never heard a net fan say “thank GOSH we have Brook!!”

ever listen to Evan Roberts on WFAN?

Tommy I know you aren’t serious with asking if Arroyo, Pargo or Williams would have made this team better. And I’m no Johnny come lately I’ve been calling for signing these exact same guys from two years ago at the Knicks fix. I also was calling for a PG in a PG heavy draft that I was anticipating for the past 3 years. When Lawson stayed in school for another year I couldn’t believe how stacked this draft was going to be with PGs.

I know you know your stuff so I know you know before the end of the tourney Jennings was considered the 2nd or in some circles best PG in last years draft. His stock fell because of what some felt was a failed Europe expirement and suspect comments right before the draft but no one doubted his talent. Walsh passed fine, but then why not sign one of the guys listed above on a one year deal. After watching this team struggle mightly with its PG play and knowing we have an open roster spot why not sign Tinsley. Must we continue with only one PG on the roster? And as someone who played the position can you please stop saying that the signing of a PG will eat into Toney Douglas’ minutes. Douglas is far from a natural point and should be playing off the ball.

Gallo can shoot. Great. We also needed that. But did we have to draft him and Hill after drafting Chandler and with us already having a team loaded with PFs. We have cap space in 2010 and want to sign Lebron but yet have a team with all PFs and SFs. It just makes no logical sense.

Ok rant over. Jets lost, Mets are lost, and half the Knicks roster can’t spell lost.

i didnt mention any specific Nate deal..

Here’s my realistic rebuild for 2010:

Toney Douglas
J.J. Redick (ORL – RFA)
Danilo Gallinari
Chris Bosh (TOR – PO)
Eddy Curry

Sergio Rodriguez (SAC – RFA)
Wilson Chandler
Grant Hill (PHX – PO)
Jordan Hill
Jared Jeffries
2nd rounder – PG
2nd rounder – F/C

Do we have to be under the cap after two draft picks or before? I’m probably too far over here… Plus, I think Grant Hill still has a player option for ’10, but I’m not sure. Anyway, Curry AND Jeffries on the books is a disaster… At least try and move Jeffries with Chandler, and there’s a little flexibility after signing one “max”. (And I’m not saying Redick’s an ideal starter, but he fits better than Wil at the 2 in this system.)

WHO THE FK IS GILAN?

JEEZ TOMMY,this guy walsh comes in ,hand over the riegns to a Chris Duhon,and you shrug this off as if it were nothing

when donnie signed him i was like damm
then when i heard what he was getting paid for 2 years
i was like donnie is stupid..

lol.BOB.
gillanari

Say what you want. Criticize Donnie all you want but picking J Hill over Brandon Jennings was smart. You need the best player available why gamble on BJ when you see this Top 5 talent in front of you?

Well, it’s LeBron – he won’t really be a 3 or 4 here, but I get your point. Gallo’s a weird fit but can shoot the lights out. He’s kind of the 3 in the offense but really can’t create much. I don’t think Chandler will be here… I think Donnie gets desperate (bad word choice) because Curry doesn’t play fantastic ball and dumps Wil with JJ. Can Gallo maybe get a bit stronger and be the 4? He can stretch it on O for the P&R and can block shots… I just don’t know. A lot of Q’s, but at least we’re getting closer to being better.

I would trade Gallo, my girlfriend and my mom to get Paul.

See, I kind of think exactly the opposite as you. If your a team like the Knicks who are going to loose this year anyway and are looking towards the future, you are in the position to draft a guy who might a year or two in garbage time before he really emerges. It’s not hard to find a guard who can score 20ppg. Nate can, Toney Douglas had 3 20pt games in a row, it’s just not the hardest thing to do. Not knocking Jennings, but when your on the Bucks you need to make all those shots.

We arent winning this year anyway, so take the guy with the higher possible value, because a skilled big man is always worth better than a guard.

no homo

td,

ok so we’re in a real bad place right now.
we have no possiblity for a real pg.
that is critical in the nba.
how the coaching and scouts could allow this is questionable.
so, perhaps we will see several assts be replaced very shortly.
i don’t see what is being added during games.
maybe, mike d is being led astray by his guards!
but donnie w is objective.
let’s see what happens next.

*Lurking*

Tommy,
have you seen Gordon play, he is sick, his handle
and shooting is unbelievable,
which is not how i feel about Douglas, tho I love his D.
if you don’t think so I don’t know what to say.

you’re the only one thinking about a Paul trade in a sexual manner Mucha…but that’s to be expected from you.

Oh no….you have a new gimmick

Jennings is a pure point guard who happens to be able to put the ball in the basket. Nate and Toney are not point guards, Toney isn’t even as good a passer as Nate yet.

Face palm

Jennings is better than every player on this team LOL, minus maybe Gallinari like I said guys who score 55 as rookies are HOFers.

I’d try and make a serious move for Rubio and have Nike buyout his contract.

Best KnicksBlog post in some time.

All you “fans” are the reason this team has languished for years. “Win now at all costs, damn the torpedoes and screw the consequences, overpay for to get in as the 8th seed.” – on and on and on.

Most of you have TOTALLY IGNORED the past few years. I’ve lost count of how many times fans on this blog bemoan not having a 1st next year. Who’s to blame for that? Not the current administration. The last decade of weak team officials listened to fans instead of making smart, long-term decisions.

All of you deserve this year of misery, and I hope you all turn in your tickets, become Nets fans and leave more room for fans who accept the consequences of a decade of mismanagement and look forward to a bright future under Donnie and MD.

This year I would have loved a 1 year rental such as Arroyo or JWill but looking at the future I am glad we didn’t sign Sessions, who I never thought had that much game at all. I don’t think Rubio is the solution for NY, the kid can play but I have a feeling he’s not the right guy, he would dissapoint in NY. I would love Chris Paul for the Knicks, I’m talking a ferocious top PG that you know is not a gamble. Chris Paul will be one of the best if not the best PG for the next 7 or 8 years. The Knicks need to stop gambling on talent and recognize who the right guys are to get, no brainers such as Chris Paul, Lebron, Dwade or Melo. Until one of these guys is on the team the Knicks will be what they have been for years, a joke.

And by best post, I don’t mean the one I replied to, that would be laughable.

Tommy, please keep posting Dave’s blog entries, it’s refreshing to see some maturity around here.

Of course, nearly any true basketball person in the world will disagree with your assessment of MD.

Quit your pathetic whining and accept the fact the Knicks ARE rebuilding after a decade of listening to horrible “mortgage your future to get one more win” fans like yourself.

Drafting BJ would of been a gamble.

The article is right. We could trade for a gerald wallace, a stephen jackson and we could perpetuate this cycle of competition for 8th place, or we can build cap room and lure free agents. D’antoni’s not a bad coach, but he is coaching with everyone else’s scraps because these are the players that other teams were willing to give us that fit the 2010 plan. You just don’t clear cap space and get better, it doesn’t happen that way in the NBA.

I would have been a fan of the jennings pick over hill, although he too will have his ups and downs. He turns the ball over and is not a consistent shooter, so his 55 point performance does not make him perfect. And from what Walsh has said, picking him would have been an uninformed decision as he hadn’t seen enough. There are plenty of good options in next year’s market at the one, my favorites being Raymond Felton and T.J. Ford, guys that get up and down and see the floor well. Additionally, if the Knicks get Lebron, you don’t need a traditional point guard as the ball is almost always in Lebron’s hands. The Cavs have Mo Williams, a shooting point guard with so-so court vision.

My biggest problem with this season and the coaching is that D’Antoni needs to adjust a bit, the same way Brown got stuck in his ways. It’s not enough just to play Gallo and Wilson, because if he just leaves them in the corner waiting for a kickout, it wastes them, not to mention Chandler should be finding ways to hit the offensive boards and go to the foul line. He’s a good player inside 18 feet and in transition. He will be a defensive stopper as soon as next year and a vauable cheap piece, but he’s never going to be a star, especially if he keeps playing on the perimeter so much.

Given the upcoming free agents, it is well worth it to stick it out like this, everyone will see. Even if we don’t hit the jackpot, we can still put together a very competitive team next year. If we pick up TJ Ford and Bosh, we are looking at a starting five of Ford, Gallo, Chandler, Lee, and Bosh and we would still have cap room and young players on our bench developing in Douglas and Hill and what is sure to be an early second round pick next year.

and obviously drafting Jordan Hill was an even bigger one..

no J Hill was the Safe Pick. Top 5 talent at 8?

One more thing. When you are rebuilding, you draft whoever you think is the best player available, because most of the players that “fill” the positions will be gone anyway. Drafting for need is what the top teams do because they feel they are a piece away from doing something. Not that I thought Jordan Hill was the best talent available, but if Donnie did, then that’s the way to go.

lol.
i’m not whining at all
i’m calling it the way i see it.

i luv basketball an have played it for a longtime an not video games.

like i said before
just cuz the knicks are rebuilding doesn’t mean the coach gotta stop coaching or the team has to suck

I don’t want either Raymond Felton or TJ Ford on this team and Lebron
wouldn’t want them either, these are not guys you win big with.
Yes they are a million times better than Duhon but still these are not the guys
we should be hoping for, we need better.
As far as Chandler, last year I thought this guy would be an allstar one day, especially because of his monstreous dunks and his blocking . This year I don’t recognize the guy, he has 2 dunks all year when I thought he could average more dunks than that per game. If he isn’t attacking the rim and throwing down dunks then is useless. His handle looks like it is gone, I’m really starting to think he doesn’t have any at all. I have never seen a player look so good a year ago and so bad this year, it must have something to do with the injury after all.

I’m sure your plan is to get Chris Paul and team him up with Lebron and Bosh, but there’s a salary cap and you can’t get the best player at every position. You need to get a player for a price that fits your system well and those two point guards fit this system perfectly besides that ford is a bit inconsistent shooting. You can’t just be blindly “hoping for better”, deron williams and chris paul aren’t coming. With the right supporting cast, those guys are good enough, unless Derek Fisher and Shannon Brown were so much better last year.

Chandler never really had handle to begin with, he goes right every time and has a pretty effective spin move if he’s blocked off. He throws down big dunks, but nonetheless he doesn’t have it mentally and physically to be a first or second option on offense. His scoring numbers are fine but he should be getting to the line more and averaging more rebounds.

Seriously? You don’t think rebuilding teams with a decade of cap problems to unravel will struggle?

You REALLY believe that MD isn’t trying to put the team in the best possible position to win with a roster full of Grade A salaries (thanks Isiah et al) with Grade C talent?

I think the slow but steady emergence of Gallo, Douglas and Hill is the perfect example of a good coaching in a nearly impossible rebuilding.

Check your fandom emotions and try to put yourself in DW and MD shoes. If so, you will see the logic and understand why the league’s best basketball minds have endorsed their tough approach.

funny,i dont see any

We want Dantoni fired cause of the defense this team lacks, Tommy stop making excuses already for Danphony, WalshI don’t have beef with, but in reality we will never win as long as we got a coach who don’t believe in defense..your smarter than that Tommy!
Look at the Bucks do they have more talent than us, no but he got them playing defense and giving effort everynight..Duhon has to be held accountable and he don’t even bench him?

It’s definite that Donnie blew it taking J-Hill over BJ3. Why? Any player who winds up scoring the most points as a rookie in 41 yrs AND allows the hoops world to be reminded of the player who scored 56 in 1968 (the great Earl from Winston Salem & Knick HOFamer) has to have Donnie looking for a time machine to transport him back to draft nite around 7:45 PM ….

This just in … Labron will announce tomorrow that, in defference to BJ3′s performance, he wants all NBA players to stop wearing # 3 next year except for Jennings …

CP4 (in 2010) is not happy about that !!!

Bob, I’m not surprised you can’t see anything other than doom and gloom.

The time to tank and suffer the “consequences” was last year when the team had their lottery pick, instead of trying “to get in as the 8th seed.” (yea that was THIS administration) instead of taking Lee and Nate off of the block. The fact that the Knicks didn’t upgrade the point guard position with someone who could at least attempt to make this cast of characters worth playing with (Galinari, Chandler etc.). There were a few options available that could have been had as a 1 year cheap rental. At the very least that player would have handled a share of the load as far as point guard duties.

Most teams suffer bad seasons and then get lucky in the draft with a top 3 pick otherwise your scouts have to be able to uncover talent that might be flying below the radar or take a chance on a player who may seem to be high risk (and high reward) later in the draft.

Brandon Jennings was the best pure point guard to come out of the draft. The Knicks’ greatest need was PG, as good as Danilo might turn out to be, he needs someone to get him the ball. He is too slow to create his own shot, I think the best position for him to occupy and have the greatest opportunity for success is PF (obviously he needs to strengthen up and hopefully his body matures and he isn’t allergic to the gym like _avi_ is) a la Nowitzki. He’ll still give big 4′s problems with his mobility and he’ll stretch defenses with his shot, he just has to learn to rebound more consistently much like Nowitzki had to.

Also, why is it only mature to fall in line lock step with whatever management is selling? Anyone who questions actual mistakes (some admitted by _’antoni and Walsh) is immature? Give me a break. All intelligent and rational opinions have a place on this blog, we are all fans and we all want the same thing ultimately. When the team has been bad for so long none of us wants to see mistakes made that will delay the inevitable (hopefully) rise of the Knickerbocker franchise.

Everyone who sides with _’antoni and Walsh seems to feel the need to call anyone that questions them “moronic”, “immature”, “idiots” etc. why is that? I guess it is easier to call people names and pretend you have some inside information on the inner thoughts of Mike and Donnie than to debate with fact. The only thing we all should agree on is that we want the Knicks to win and be relevant again.

Why is Jordan Hill a top 5 talent , because Donnie Wash thought so?
I’m sorry but you are not a top 5 talent if fifteen rookies are playing better than you and some on better teams. I like Hill and I think he will be good but at the end of the day I also think that at least 5 guys in this draft will have better careers then him so please enough with “top 5 talent” talk.
We totally agree on Chandler, he has no handler and just doesn’t have it mentally.
No shots but don’t say that you are “sure what my plan is” when I never said
we could or should sign 3 max superstar players, I never said anything close to that. Although signing Paul and Lebron James is possible, although highly unlikely. Lebron is gonna need help and I would take Paul over Bosh in a second. Lebron and Chris Paul would make us contenders for at least the next 5 years.

“Everyone who sides with _’antoni and Walsh seems to feel the need to call anyone that questions them “moronic”, “immature”, “idiots” etc. why is that? I guess it is easier to call people names and pretend you have some inside information on the inner thoughts of Mike and Donnie than to debate with fact. The only thing we all should agree on is that we want the Knicks to win and be relevant again.”

i take offense to that. those words have NEVER come out of my mouth.

We don’t know that … we’ll check in a couple years. But TD, how can you be so certain that Gallo remains healthy. I think the jury is out on that too.

Walsh screwed up plain and simple and for the next 15 years of jennings career or until Walsh croaks (and for me even after he croaks), he will still get the blame for not drafting JENNINGS! His excuse of not having enough info on that cat is Bull Crap! That lame excuse i will never believe! I like Gallo ok but how much info could he have had on a guy he seen work out once “BY HIMSELF!” Because if Walsh had the GM acumen many on this blog continue to laud him for he would of had Gallo work out against other forwards, then he would of seen that Gallo don’t have the strength to be a 4 (and remember his euro trainer said Gallo as well as euro players in general “don’t lift weights”) and Walsh would have seen that Gallo is to slow a foot/foot heavy to defend 3′s. I like Gallo, i think he will be a decent player though not a good enough 2 way player. Jordan Hill was drafted to replace DLee and TD was drafted to replace N8 that is the facts plain and simple. Any other thing coming out of Walsh mouth is total BC! Also if anyone thinks LBJ is coming to a 12-70 lost team next year and bosh will come with him for “less money than he can get in Toronto or miami” (as you read some wantonly post here) you don’t have a clue! LBJ and Wade start each season with the idea of playing for a “RING” not starting a 5 year plan to respectability or the 8th seed!!!

Duhon, last year, played well.

We had a guy who actually passed at the 1.

Craw wasn’t, neither did steph and neither did Nate.

it wasn’t sexy but it was right.

Isiah filled the rosters with scorers who he thought he could mold into himself.

It was a low-risk move but to ask Duhon to play another year like last year’s majority, shouldn’t be asking too much.

He’s been putrid and is playing himself out of the league.

THAT”S ON HIM…

Incorrect. Duhon was a solid orchestrator and guys were making shots last year.

I mean come on bob, that’s an easy one.

My point wasn’t that you actually thought we would sign Paul and James (obviously it would be great, we would win the next 12 championships, but Paul is already signed through 2012), but it was that you need to be realistic. It would be great to have a great point guard, but who do you suppose we get?

And as for Hill, I was playing devil’s advocate. I hate the pick and before the draft I told everyone I knew that I would be happy as long as the Knicks didn’t select him, I liked every other top 15 pick better (excluding Hansbrough). My comment about drafting for talent was a general thing, not specific to this case. Jennings is already a good player, but the 55 point game is an aberration, he’s not that good of a shooter, he had the game of his life shooting 7-8 from 3.

Gordon?

Check my records, had him higher than mayo and equal with Westbrook.

You didn’t answer my question.

a month into his career Toney D has dropped 20 twice.

gordon isn’t an assist machine either…better than TD now but not off the charts.

LOL did you listen saturday??

Walsh got a pick to get one. Where have you been?

the kid can pass man…just doesn’t have any connections with the forwards yet.

it’s coming…

I agree that Douglas is not the future but a good piece.

the legitimate question is “Where is the next PG?”

my response?

Who is Cleveland’s PG?

like I said guys who score 55 as rookies are HOFers.

Woah, that’s not true.

now jennings is a hall of famer?

I’ll tell you who can sign 3 max players, “Miami”! If Wade opts out of his contract Miami can sign two max guys, then fill out their roster, and then if they are willing (and they would be) go over the salary cap to sign Wade! They could have Wade, Bosh, and LBJ if they were able to lure them to Miami. “TEN YEARS OF GUARANTEED CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!”

6’10, athletic, inside /outside?

Top 5 pick. Like a guy who throws 97 (but isn’t represented by Boras.)

No brainer for me.

I would have taken Lawson, or Holiday. But hill has skills and will be in the league for a long time.

you want him fired?

awful

AND LEBRON WILL BE OKAY WITH HAVING ONE LESS???

SMH

He is a top 5 talent because he was projected to go in the top 5 on everyones list.

that comment was very mature,very mature indeed!

i see doom ad gloom because it is doom and gloom which is in front of us.add lebron james to this team,and you know what you have done? you’ve just ruined Lebron James

I didnt. But the team is what?? 0-9? Who could find anything positive there?

Last year and pre season he was high on him.

And he is the only Nets fan that I know of.

If Donnie uses that response in his pitch to Lebron he will get hung up on.

all summer long, i questioned Donnie Walsh,what i got was the equivelent of verbal rotten tomatoes thrown at me on a daily basis,of course now that the real games have started to bring my summer thoughts into fruition,the ones who threw the afore mentioned tomatoes either do not remember hurling them at me,ornow there are so many anti-walsh guys,they think that we have always been allys

jeremy13, of course 55 points is an aberration, unless you’re Wilt in the ’60s. But to say Jennings is not a good shooter is premature. He obviously has some ability to shoot and, at 20, all the time in the world to develop a better outside shot. The things he has NOW are, the ability to penetrate & dish, and the cahones to take control of a game … anybody on our squad with those attributes?

B/T/W don’t know if you’re a Rubio fanatic but the announcer on Saturday’s Euroleague game said about Ricky “beautiful passer & beautiful organizer, his SHOT & defense, NOT so beautiful” …

but there;s NO doubt the Kniicks would’ve taken Slick Rick if he was there at 8 …. NOT so beautiful shot & all …

Nope way off. Miami can’t do that because of many different aspects of the CBA including cap holds and the salary cap. If Miami renounced the rights to Wade and signed two max FAs they couldn’t sign Wade over the cap because they would have renounced his rights. Good luck signing Wade to a minimum contract in your scenario.

Ahhhh, so you admit you have sided with _’antoni and Walsh?!

Really? Jordan Hill was a top five talent in mock drafts over Beasely, Rubio, Thabeet, Curry, Evans, Flynn, Jennings, Derozan, etc. I don’t think so buddy. The only other team that was rumored to be chasing HIll was the Mavs in a trade with Washington.

LOL I wasn’t pointing you out in particular Tommy, just speaking in general. There are a lot of guys who think the end argument is to call someone an “idiot” or a “fool”. I’ll admit some people do sound crazy, but they all have legitimate concerns or genuinely feel they are right in whatever their opinions are.

Calling for D’Antoni’s firing is silly. The point that he needs to put more of an emphasis on defense is extremely valid. Can’t throw the baby out with bath water. They need to replace Herb with a strong minded defensive assistant coach.

Oh yeah because every GM should have jumped on the jennings bandwagon when they went overseas to see him and he was a no show right? I guess every GM for the next 15 years who had a top 10 pick this year will regret it right? How about every other year? I guess GM’s have a long list of regrets? Give me a break. The fact is that Jordan is still going to be a good player and he was the right pick at the time. He was he BPA and Walsh took him as a result. The guy was projected top 5 and slipped a little bit on the board; while Jennings was never top 5 in anyone’s books and didn’t impress overseas last year or at workouts.

The Cavs don’t have a star PG. Neither did the Bulls. But those teams had LBJ and MJ. No other championship team in the past 20 years that I can think of didn’t have a pure point. If we extend that to Finals teams the SIxers had Eric Snow who was great on defense and pretty bad on offense but they had Iverson in his prime, who was arguably one of the all time great offensive players. Our beloved ’99 Knicks team had Ewing, Sprewell, and Houston in a strike shortened season.

Point is if you are truyly are a rebuilding team you need a PG, a captain to lead the ship. Otherwise you have the 2009-2010 NY knicks who look lost for 80% of the game.

LOL, first off Wade is most likely headed to a more talented, hometown Chicago team. Second off, three stars who have to shoot a combined 56 shots a game, won’t work.

Not to say that Maurice Williams is a bad PG, he isn’t but I understand the point that he is not a pure PG. However, this team does not have a Jordan, or LBJ, or Ewing and theses cast of characters needs a PG . Unless the plan is to just have a crappy directionless roster until 2010 and that will be a recipe for disaster.

Beasley wasn’t in this draft. Hill was a top 5 talent; look at early mocks. He was above everyone on your list with the exception of rubio, thabeet (who will be a bust), and on occasion, Derozan. Nearing the draft, Hill’s stock dropped as Steph Curry and Johnny Flynn’s stock flew up.

not based on last year or this year,Mike D has been a BAD coach

he played well for 1/5th of last year

Hahah, yeah, it’s d’antoni’s fault that the team doesn’t play with passion and only plays for themselves in a contract year. It’s also his fault that the only players that do are those who aren’t capable of leading a team to victory by themselves (hill, ghostface, gallo, landry). He should resort to tom cable’s method and start punching people in the jaw so they play harder.

you have no idea what sessions would have done if he came here.hes in minny now,trying to learn a version of the tri-angle.who knows what would’ve happened if he came here.HES STILL BETTER THAN DUHON

ONLY UP UNTIL DECEMBER,after that duhon has stunk

picking GALLO was the only thing walsh has done where i agree with him

Toney is not a point guard, hopefully he will turn into a serviceable rotation guard, but he is more of a backup.

Great defense, an ability to score, can change the pace of the game at both ends and can make the simple passes.

His strength is not making his teammates better, those players don’t come along often.

is it raining or is ……tommy go find a bathroom!

this stuff is also because walsh hired dantoni……any other coach who hears nate bitchin at herb,nate is gonna be sat down for a while….but not in here nate cus at the coach,hes right back in the game,dlee misses 3 defense assignments in a row ,nobody says shit to him and hes back i n the game.these guys have to learn basic nba hoops before they can run dantonis offense….nate acted like this when zeke ran the assylum.get skiles in here ….see if any of this shit goes on…….young kids need tough teachers….Dantoni has no steve nash here….he has to adjust!!!

and we need to get a good point guard in here right away

I have no complaints about anything Walsh has done yet as far as trades and management of the cap is concerned. He has basically traded away mediocre payers with bad contracts for slightly worse players with better contracts. He overpaid for Duhon, but without jeopardizing the long term plan.

The only thing you can complain about was this year’s draft and perhaps passing on Sessions because IMO Session was/is clearly a better player than Duhon (even though he’s not getting much time right now)

Personally, I don’t feel bad about missing Jennings. Yes, he was a hot prospect out of high school, but he hardly played at all in Europe and based on his stats there, he didn’t look like much of a player. When you add that to the fact that his personality looked a lot like “Iverson/Marbury II”, I don’t think passing on him was such a terrible idea at the time. He may turn out to be a great player, but no one could have predicted that based on the information available at the time. It was a high risk high reward pick. Sometimes things like that work and sometimes they don’t.

What I will complain about is that Lawson looked like a perfect fit and also had tremendous stats in college. We could have easily traded down, picked up Lawson, and also got another pick. Maybe we could have picked up a good SG too.

All that said, I’m actually feeling better right now than I was a week or so ago.

Douglas looks pretty good. Even though he doesn’t look as good as Lawson, over the long haul if he can become more of a ball distributor perhaps they will be similar players.

My assumption was that Hill wasn’t any good because he looked mediocre in summer and pre-season, had very mediocre college stats, and wasn’t getting any minutes for the Knicks. But he hasn’t looked so bad in the few appearances he’s made so far. I think he has a very good chance to develop into a more athletic version of Lee inside, with a mid range game, and without being the massive liability on defense. If so, that means we can trade Lee and bring in something else we need or move one of the bad contracts.

Gallo can become an excellent player if he can fill out the stat sheet better and create his own shot a little.

We can also pray that Chandler comes out of his funk and shows some explosiveness again. Though I still wonder about his intelligence. At least he has sharply reduced his 3 point attempts in November.

That’s not such a horrible core to add two max contracts to.

We can add one in 2010 and one in 2011.

It will be a long journey, but we are on the right path as long as Hill and Douglas develop.

Tommy,hire Tom Thibodeaux as our head coach,,,,if we do this right now,it wont be too late

@ Knicks4life, I believe your wrong man, a team do not have the ability to renounce a player who is an unrestricted free agent! If and when Wade opt out he becomes an unrestricted free agent! Also Wade just recently said he likes Miami and he do not plan on leaving Miami (“to go to Cleveland or Chicago or anywhere else”)! Biggie if you catch this post correct me if I’m wrong!

A lot of you guys are missing the point with J Hill. Rarely, do big men come into this league a put up stellar numbers in their rookie year; while occasionally guards do. Look at the following stats.

a.1)10.4 PPG, 6.3 RPG-big man-drafted 5th overall
a.2)19 PPG, 9.3 APG, 4 RPG-PG in the same draft as the big man-drafted 7th overall

a is Kevin Garnett; b is damon stoudamire. Not taking anything away from Damon, but KG had the better career and is a hall of famer. Then there are plenty of big men who don’t even average 5ppg in there rookie years but had or are having good careers. Examples….

Biedrins-3.8ppg
Zach Randolph-2.8ppg
David West-3.8 ppg
Boris Diaw-4.5 ppg
And my favorite, granted he only played in 46 games, but
Andre Bynum-1.6 ppg

My point is that some had limited minutes; others didn’t, but all are solid big men at the least. Other’s like Biedrins, West, and Bynum are all-stars. It takes time for big men to find there niche generally in the league. Even elite players like Bosh and D12 put up solid numbers there first years (12 ppg or so), but not dominating numbers. The fact is that to call Hill a bad pick after 10 games and to praise jennings and predict his career off of 10 games is ridiculous. And by the way, back to stoudamire, he put up 20+ points in 7 of his first 11 games.

In fairness Duhon played well for about 30 games last year.

He has been awful since before the All Star Game of last year.

Garnett was 18 or 19 straight out of high school. Of course it took him longer to hit his peak.

never please re-read what i said

The problem with Chandler (aside from basketball IQ) is that he was supposed to work on his handle and outside shooting during the off season. However, he had surgery and didn’t get back on the court until just before pre-season. So not only are we getting back the same player as last year instead of one that improved in the off-season, we are probably getting one that is not recovered 100% physically yet. That will come with time. The real issue is does he have the smarts to improve his shot selection and become more of a play maker. I’m starting to think he doesn’t even though he has reduced his 3 point attempts sharply in November to 2 1/2 per game from over 5 per game in October .

eh.. looking at his game log from last year

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=2377&year=2009

Duhon had maybe five good games after the 6 game losing streak in December.

The Loss at Dallas One Jan 8th 24/7/3 pts/assts/turnovers

The Win vs. Houston on 1/26 with 12/6/2

The Win vs ATL on 1/28 with 16/11/3

The Win vs. SA on 2/17 with 17/8/3

and maybe vs NoLa in 3/27 with 15/7/2

every other game he either shot horribly or had near as many turnovers as assists.

its GALLINARI

where was the gamble on BJ?

Walsh himself said he “didnt have a good feel for his game” before the draft.

THAT is Unacceptable and shows a lack of due diligence for a pick that everyone agrees (even Donnie) was the most important .in the last 20 years.

Hill was a top three big man talent in a draft that HAD very little big man talent.

He was not even a top 100 NCAA player as a third year big man for a major program.

Not to mention the roster was log jammed at the forward spot.

ARROYO or not.how do you go into next season without a point guard who has been runnuning this system for at least a year? also,what pg can we possibly get for next year(whos good)after we spend all of our cap space on 2 stars?

Brandon Jennings was the best high school talent since Lebron and Walsh “didnt ahve a feel for his game” before the draft.

Hill as a third year NCAA player was not dominant and arguably not even in the top 100 of all NCAA players.

He was the third best big man prospect in a one deep big man draft.

i dont know bout that tommy ,i was bitching about duhon from january till the season ended!

in fairness.. Tommy.. if you are going to compare Hill to the baseball prospect who throws 97 he is like the baseball prospect who throws 97 and cant get it over the plate and doesnt have any other pitches.

Raw as Sushi.

where is the next point guard?let me get this straight!were not gonna sign a point guard,because lebron doesnt have one in cleveland?thats the dumbest thing i ever heard

I don’t think every young immature black cat should be labeled as a Marbury clone or tagged as an Iverson problem! That form of astigmatism should be of the past when ignorance, fear, and unfamiliarity of different races and cultures led to the painting of individuals with broad brushes. This generation is different but insight, understanding, as well as reaching out and trying to connect with a younger generation would help one to grasp where they are from and where they want to go, as well as what’s on their mind, what’s in their heart, and what their passions are. Half of those things were known about Jennings, the other half Walsh didn’t care to know about! That’s his lost, the Knicks lost, and the Knicks fans lost. Iverson took the 76ers to the finals by himself and Marbury imploded, yeah i know it is hit and miss, but i believe Jennings was and is of a better character than both of them! Lance Stephenson is coming out next year with a bad reputation and is projected to fall into the 2nd round because of it, is Walsh suppose to run and hide from him too? Do i think Chris Mullins would if he was our GM by that time next year? I don’t think the game has passed DA by but i sure as hell think it has passed by Walsh!!! If Dolan had any sense he would restrict walsh to managing his finances and demand that he hire a real GM! Maybe after this year of winning less than 20 games will give this guy a clue, if not him maybe one of his yes men/advisers will wake him from his chronic stupor by bringing him to a game and pointing out the mediocrity on the floor that had been gathered for the last 2 years! (?) Do anyone have Dolan”s email add.???

WHO IS GONNA BE THE KNICKS POINT GUARD?

I co sign for 99 percent of this post..

Not EVERYONE who sides with coach and Donnie hurl insults.

Tommy has been sticking to his facts and supporting his opinions.

Tommy runs a tight ship and I dont think HaS’ shot was directed at him..

Bob, HaS and I have been leading the Anti establishment charge since this summer and have taken some shots questioning our “fan hood” with some insanely childish responses

all good.. it is what it is… appreciate the dialog.

@ BOB, There is no answer this year to you question Bob, but next year I hope it’s “roko leni ukic!” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBdspVE9M7U

Thank you barnaby8787!!!!…….Give these young players a chance to develop

Hey Jeremey13……No way can you say that Jennings is already a good player after 10 games. NO WAY!!!! and I beg to differ that you were saying that you liked every top 15 pick other than Hill. I bet you didn’t even see Hill play 2 games his last year at Arizona. Give the guy a chance..cmon!!!! your killing me with your talk

Beasley was in lat years draft …Knick4life. A lot of Gm’s liked Hill and still do. I can steer you to articles saying so. Why are so many Knick fans hating on a player who you haven’t seen play????

Great post Barnaby…..I love the fact you backed up your statement with facts.

Some people here should be banned from posting.

They love to tell us what Walsh did wrong but they never tell you what they would’ve done differently. I would love to hear how they would make the team better this year without adding any payroll to next year.
Arroyo, J Williams or Tinsley does not make this team better.

I think a lot of people do not see that there are 2 factions on the team. One who want to stay here and see big dollars and one who just wants to play and whatever and wherever it is, it is.

The one that wants to stay are veterans who are lazy, ball hogs castoffs we are stuck with. They love New York because it means money and notoriety good or bad.

So when Duhon mouthed off which he rightfully did so the castoffs were upset.

I like Duhon, he’s good not great and in a funk because of the team fracture which D’Ant doesn’t have the balls to do anything about. It’s not his way…….

Al, JJ and Larry are the 3 stooges.

D’ant proved he’s not a great coach.

As for Jennings, I do not want a 6’1″ PG scoring 55 points. Shades of Marbury, AI and losing. I want a PG that scores 15-18 points, 8-10 assists some steals and rebounds and drives to the basket a bit, breaks down a defense. Nothing spectacular just get the ball to the bigmen and make a shot when you are open to keep the defense honest. when Duhon is on he’s just about that player.

So you would really draft a player who did good in High School opposed to a player who did good in the NCAA?
Glad you aint’ walsh.

i agree with the team fracture angle affecting some of the players… especially duhon. I do not blame walsh at all for the mess this team finds itself in. I know I will be breathing easier at the trade deadline when walsh acquires some assets for some of our expirings. If walsh fails to move harrington before the end of the season I will be very disappointed. He takes minutes from the young blood, and is a black hole on the offense, constantly whining to officials. As far as leadership, I hope harrington is a better at leading by being vocal as opposed to leading by example. Plaaying hard and playing smart are just different things. Harrington has the star mentality and its just killing this team imo. Obviously, Harrington is the focus of most of my displeasure right now and right after him is the coach.

D’Antoni needs to settle on a rotation already. I despise how there are no clear roles for anybody. I mean we are 10 games in and he still doesn’t know who his guys are? this is not the most talented group but it is better than 1 -9. That’s on the coach too!

There´s really no arguing that Jennings is already a playmaker in the league, capable of controlling the tempo. Not that he´s the best and I personally don´t think he´ll ever be a top 5 pg in the league, but he definitely has skills that have already shown to translate. As for Hill I did watch him and yeah he´s athletic, with a decent touch, but he is so raw. I´m a believer that we have time, but I just don´t think Hill is going to develop into a star player. He´s already good on D although foul prone but on offense he´s so unpolished, always fading away and forcing deep jump shots. He´s a combo of Frye and Chris Wilcox, but not as good a shooter as Frye and not as athletic as Wilcox. I would have rather had Eric Maynor, he´s gonna be the steal of the draft with Griffin and Evans being the best pros that come from it.

Double Doubles (with 18 points mind you) aren’t a common occurrence in college….

Jordan Hill was definitely a top 10 NCAA player last year.

I meant Tommy lol. I know what side you’re on Bob!

thanks bob.

“once again, thank god for Gallinari… can you imagine if we didnt have him?”

Yeah, we’d be 1-9.