Why Fans Shouldn’t Feel Like they are Owed Anything…yet

Tommy, we’re of one mind on this.

Good blog Tommy: for me it is critically important to keep things in context as you certainly have. I believe some of the fans fail to appreciate how difficult it is to turn the ship around. Further we really have no idea what DW knows about the other teams in the league. If he knew a certain team is planning on dumping salaries in February which dump might work to his advantage, why would he rush to move a player and get a player today. We have been there and done that with the impulsive moves to give the fans a momentary rush. I believe guys like DW and MD are the best in the business. Given a chance they might be successful. We should all give them some credit for knowing what they are doing. I must admit, howevever, it certainly is frustrating waiting for some real results. Keep on blogging.

The only thing we should blame Donnie for is Ramon Sessions BUT the way JJ is playing it is justified because who knows if we can dump him now.

Sense of entitlement? I believe that a franchise has to have a history of sustained success in order for its fans to have a sense of entitlement. Laker fans have a sense of entitlement. Celtic fans have a sense of entitlement. In NYC, Yankee fans have a sense of entitlement … and no, I’m not criticizing Yankee fan, I’m one of them. I don’t think there’s a sense of entitlement as much as there’s a whole lot of frustration. I know I was pretty hopeful about this year. No, I didn’t expect them to make the playoffs, but I was expecting a fun team that ran up and down the court and competed. This team has been a disaster SO FAR. You make some valid points MR. D., but it’s my opinion that the fans (you know the fans, the ones that buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, watch the games, follow the blogs) are allowed to vent some frustration. That doesn’t mean we’re not down with the 2010 plan, that we blame this all on Mike D. and Donnie Walsh, it just means that sometimes we get fed up and have to go DAMN! WHEN T F ARE WE GOING TO CATCH A BREAK AND THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER? That’s all.

*Blank stare*

via Hahn

“So who would you play if you were the coach? My 5: TD-Gallo-Wil-Lee-Curry, Bench: Nate, Hill, Landry. Thoughts?”

I’d go TD-Hughes-Gallo-Lee-Curry Bench Nate,Hill,Landry, Wil those are the people that actually want to play.

All Donnie has done is pawn off Zach and Craw for more garbage players. Big Snacks never played and was a complete bust and waste of a roster spot from day one. His contract became tradeable when he blew out his achilles as he is likely headed for a medical retirement covered by insurance.

What about trading Balkman for a second round pick?

At this point I put more blame on the coaching for a failure to adapt tot he players on the roster . Players that most on this site thought were decent enough to compete for a playoff spot.

So now the line is to be patient and wait til next year?
I respect the thought to be patient but I just cant give Donnie a complete pass on this season. His drafting has been horrible and his trade strategy has shown no ability to think outside the box.

The Spags comparison to D’Antoni doesnt wash as NFL is a completely different sport. Even that said Im sure Spags isnt trying to play the four aces defense in St Louis without an Osi, Tuck, Kiwi. He is likely adapting his philosophies to the players he is surrounded by.

That said Im OK with waiting til next year but then what?

All good and fair points but that still doesn’t justify the odd sub changes during games and the reason for his odd (to say the least) starting lineups. I am not even going to start on his lack of commitment on the defensive end. Those are simple things that he as a veteran coach should be accountable.

As far as Donnie goes I also believe that he has done a superb job of shredding contracts. However (I hate to beat a dead horse) if you have on your team that has alot of PF’s and one very bad PG then why not draft a PG???

As I always say if LBJ comes here then it will all be irrelevant.

Go Knicks (in 2010).

Donnie’s story won’t be written until the summer of LeBron, anything short of of a superstar player in 2010 will be a failure.

If were shunned by the superstars in 2010 & can’t add major talent by trade either, I don’t want to hear that this was about 2011
I’m still on the D’antoni bandwagon despite his many questionable coaching decisions but D’antoni has to develop the young guns this season.

My five;

PG – TD ———-Sub – errrr, Duhon
SG – Hughes—-Sub – Chandler
SF – Gallo——–Sub – Al (when lee comes in)
PF – Al————-Sub – Lee
C – Darko———Sub – Curry

The fans have been owed something..a rebuilding plan that should have taken place years ago. Even for the shortsighted fans out there that don’t have the patience and can’t deal with pain that rebuilding is. Checketts should have rebuilt after Ewing letting him expire, Layden and Thomas should have rebuilt. Walsh at least came in and realized trying to keep plugging holes wasn’t going to work cause the ship was already sunk on the bottom of the ocean floor. TIme to build a new ship.

I hoped the 1 and done players would play with some pride and realize that winning would help them get a contract after this season but that didn’t happen. They went the other way and are terrible. I know Donnie said that he would try to keep the team competitive but at the end of the day if he had to take a 1-81 season in order to rebuild with cap space he would still have done it. I’m happy he stuck to that personally.

Has the plan gone perfectly so far? No.. Could Donnie have drafted other players who are playing well on other teams? Sure. Most rebuilding plans aren’t perfect. Doesn’t mean it won’t be an effective plan though. It hasnt’ failed yet. And contrary to popular opinion the plan isn’t a fail if they don’t sign Lebron or Wade. The great thing about cap space is you can save teams alot of money through trade also. You don’t have to send back salary or players being under the cap.

In reality, the most valuable commodity in the NBA isn’t talent….it’s money. Especially to small market teams like New Orleans, losing money, struggling to meet operating costs while, shedding contracts (Okafor was really a dump of Chandler’s salary) at the same time trying to keep a superstar point guard who is frusrated watching Lebron, Carmelo and Wade with teams willing to spend to surround them with talent. If Paul keeps voicing his frustration and the Knicks can save them 20-60 million dollars over the next few years the Hornets think about it. Just an example.

Donnie is setting himself up to have multiple options. If he destroys that flexibility by brining in the next Mcdyess or Marbury then I’ll criticize.

The Knicks dropped the ball on Jennings period guys that drop 55 as rookies go to the HOF so there should be no debate on that they F’d up big time. I hope Vesci has something to say his rants are always pretty good.

Check out Ty Lawson dunking on teh Lakers 7 foot center DJ mbenga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEVlvruAWgs

Hahn got it right this morning.. DW HAD TO get this draft right because of the lack of a pick next year, the importance of 2010 and the fact that it was a lotto pick.

So far it looks like he blew it picking Jordan Hill over the abundance of point guards who were out there and are excelling. That Donie says he didnt have enough info on Jennings is mind boggling. Reports were BJ ruled Tyreke Evans in the MSG workout. Where were the euro scouts and pyscho analysis on BJ?

Comment by BiggieSmalls

“At this point I put more blame on the coaching for a failure to adapt to the players on the roster .”

Exactly the point.! If you can’t modify the system somewhat, you aren’t taking proper advantage of the skills your players do have. Inflexibility is not a desireable quality in a coach.

from Hahn

>>>>>

Tyreke Evans was also high on the list, I’m told, and yet it’s interesting that Jennings had his pre-draft workout for the Knicks against the much bigger Evans and, from what I’ve heard, he really took it to Evans. I remember Jennings walking out of the gym feeling very confident in himself that day.

“I thought I showed them enough in the workout,” Jennings told us last week in Milwaukee. “One-on-one drills, pushing the ball up the court, beating everybody down the floor, playing defense and things like that. I thought I showed what I learned over in Europe . . . maybe it wasn’t enough.”

<<<<<<<

Well bartnyk….as long as you realize that Donnie wasn’t the only one that passed on Jennings. You can’t call the however many GM’s that passed on him losers but you can call the Bucks GM a winner. Plus you still don’t know how Jordan Hill will pan out.
You guys need to relax. The plan was for 2010 and you have idiotic fans screaming fire Dantoni at the games. I hope their there when I go to the games. I always shut down moronic fans……everytime.
Great post Tommy.
I said it before and I’ll say it again…all the fans that are bashing Donnie and Dan will be slurping them next year after July 1, 2010 and Walsh and Dan know it. I’m glad there are archives because I’m going to love throwing peoples words in their faces this time next year.

IS it fair to criticize D’Antoni for trying to fit square pegs in round holes?

i didnt predict jennings as a lock, or the right pick, but im a fan not the gm. Walsh isnt joe schmo, hes the gm of the knicks and is expected to have the foresight for this types of things.
Hill is obviously a project, but if the plan is to lure Lebron he isnt going going to be enamored by questionable projects. He wants a ring and a competent supporting cast

Who picks their guy off one workout?
Tyreke Evans had multiple workouts with the Kings going up agaisnt a lot of different people.

Who picks their guy off one workout? @ itzyung1, Didn’t the Knicks pick their guy “Gallo” off of one work out?!? Also he didn’t even have to work out against anyone! Also didn’t they have interest in Rubio who they didn’t even work out!!!

I wonder what those guys who are slurping Walsh and DA bc now will be slurping at the summer of 2010 when the big name free agents are laughing and rejecting a team that just went 12 and 70! The good thing is that From Walsh if he still have his head up his rear they’ll be more bc coming for his apologist to shovel, just don’t try to tell me that it don’t stink!!!

test

I’m Sorry I cant listen to crap like this… I just cant… Its hard enough watching Knick games and seeing them lose all the time… But to hear stuff like “Sense of entitlement” from Knick fans, kills it… We watch this team, pay for tickets, buy gear, support a team that has sucked for almost 10 years… And this is what we get in return… Biggie, Has, and Bob all thought this team would stink, and I was one who thought “lets wait and see.” Well I’ve waited and I see this team is worse than its ever been… Walsh(and I was one who supported him) can not get a pass when the team is off to a franchise worst start, neither can Mike Dan… Walsh put the team in this position with his 2010 plan… You can praise the 2010 plan but you cant ignore the lack of urgency and focus to make this team good this year… And as I recall after trading Craw and Zach, that was the main precursor to luring FAs in 2010… That part isnt being accomplished…

I swear when Jennings is an all-star(maybe this year), ROY, and one of the most talked about youngsters in the game… Some people on this blog will still be saying Hill was the better pick… Its like the blind leading the blind sometimes… Its not my job to evaulate talent I dont get paid for that, but Walsh does… And when you dont come through at your job you receive blame and ridicule, why should Walsh and Mike Dan be any different… I’m done, just typing this is pissing me off…

Because Walsh was not the only GM to pass on Jennings doesn’t make it OK that he passed on him. And it’s not only Jennings, we needed a SG and that guy Terrence Williams on NJ is a real beast, have you guys watched him play, he would easily outplay Hughes for the starting spot. Or how do you not draft a guy like Ty Lawson, he will be solid for years to come, did you catch that dunk he had the other night. Eric Maynor is even already doing his thing in Utah.
I’m not saying that Hill is a bust but why draft someone that is a “project” when you could have drafted someone that is NBA ready right now. Drafting a player and calling him a “project” is nonsense it’s like saying ok this guy is gonna suck for a few years before he gets good, who needs that. I’m sorry but almost all great players looked good and contributed in their rookie year. I bet you that if Jordan Hill had been drafted by the spurs or another “healthy program”, he would be getting minutes and looking better already. Why is it that we are one of the worst teams in the league and are top pick can’t even get his minutes and do his thing? And Duhon needs to sit, we can’t even win a game when he plays he is so bad, ho hard is that for Mike D to understand, why is he so loyal to him?

Because he wanted Duhon… And cast Marbury away in favor of him, so he fells the need to justify his decision… It’s just stupid…

*evaluate* my bad

Ive read like 4 different posts of yours involving dudes slurping other dudes?

The fact is the knicks could have a backcourt of Brandon Jennings and Eric Gordon right now. Or Jennings and Anthony Randolph.You cant lynch Walsh for missing them, but the notion that we cant hold them accountable because theyre rebuilding or the last gm sucked is idiotic.

Jamal Crawford has 3 50pt games for 3 different teams let me know when he gets in the hall of fame. Jennings is on Milwaukee, get over it. Be a Bucks fan if you guys want to jock him so much. He’s not even halfway into his first NBA season and you’re already calling him a hall of famer????? Ridiculous.

Yes, we missed out on those guys, but at the same times none of the guys you mentioned were sure fire locks coming out and hindsight is 20/20.

Gallo was considered a lottery pick by many teams not just Dantoni. This is essentially his rookie season and he’s coming off surgery. Give the young man some time. A 6’11 dead eye shooter with potential? It’s easier to find the next Eric Gordon than a player with Gallo’s height and potential.

Hill hasn’t really gotten a chance to play yet because the team wants to showcase Lee, Jeffries, and Curry. Let him get the minutes Jennings gets and Hill would have had some solid efforts himself.

Then look at Douglas. He’s also had limited opportunities but he’s already thrown out a 21 and a 23. He’ll be a solid to good player in my opinion.

The records stinks but the young talent that is here has potential. I’m more interested in the the guys we have than Brandon Jennings.

Gallinari + Jennings = LeBron James.

I think it would be my favorite combination right now.

A Gordon/Jennings backcourt would be seriously undersized.

If you look at my past posts I actually make a very similar post to yours. The fact is the knicks supposed plan is to have promising young talent to woo lebron to NY. So if Hill is going to be a project and do nothing this year he obviously isn’t intriguing to the free agents this summer.

Duhon/ Nate/ douglas isnt undersized? At least they’d be undersized and talented

wrong head coach,wrong 2009 draft pick and at least with their rookie qb,the jets have what the knicks dont …HOPE! as a matter of fact,the jets might win more games than the knicks this year

build and refurbish venues. It’s because of fans that television revenue drives salary’s, profit and employment patterns.

I fully understand the need for those that bought into this farce of a 2010 plan hook line and sinker to develop reasons and excuses for the disappointment and anger. But for those so supportive of this fiasco, you probably had the foresight to understand that abject failure would lead to increased anger.

Fans are entitled to be angry because they have been misled (weren’t we supposed to try to win before 2010); they have been bamboozeled (wasn’t the D’Antoni system supposed to be exciting); they have been hoodwinked (can you really build a team on a bunch of expiring contracts and hope that a franchise player will come here and turn the organization around immediately.

Fans are entitled. Support is not free. Neither is cable, the electricity for the internet, the sports merchandise or tickets.

FIRE D’ANTONI!

How is cap space for 2010 a farce? Cap space is flexibility and a real chance at improving the team. Since you think there’s no hope you’re also probably building a bunker in anticipation of the Mayan doomsday in 2012.

Any General Manager can dump excess salaries or wait until 2010,load up a bowl full of money ,and yell”COME N GET IT!” ..We hired Donnie Walsh to build something special,but instead he hired a gimmick coach a chose an extremely safe and comfortable way of running the KNICKS till 2010…he did nothing,plus drafted the wrong guy in a draft which the right guy was paramont

One thing that very rarely gets mentioned is how much pride Lebron takes in his defense. Is it really that plausible that a guy that takes so much pride in D would come to a team of players and a coach who show no interest in defense?

Walsh has always advised that he has two objectives: 1) to be prepared for the 2010 market with hopes of getting a franchise player (wink, wink, LeBron); 2) to provide a competitive, exciting product and 3) reinstill a sense of pride in the New York Knicks brand.

When he got the Knicks, they were in bad shape (some say horrible). But, leaders turn organizations around all the time and it is done based on a series of decisions, not just one. Walsh has had many decisions to make to turn this organization around.

The first was to hire D’Antoni which was more of a political-commercial decision than a practical one. If you had any idea that you could not give D’Antoni the tools he needed to run his system, why in the hell would you hire him. You hire him because you hope he will bring a product to the fore that makes one forget about the prior regime.

In order to build that product, it was believed that you needed a competent leader with the mindset and skillset to run the team. In D’Antoni’s system you need a guard. So what do you do, hire Duhon off the Chicago bench. A known backup who looks best next to a better point guard like Jay Williams at Duke.

You know that you’ve got to get rid of contracts, but you should know that you still need a point guard. Instead of fortifying that position in the draft, you pick up another forward who had back questions and indicated that he may not have been in the draft unless he played for his father’s roommate or the Nets. Instead of getting a point in the draft you get a forward shooter.

In the meantime, you screw around with Marbury and the team chemistry instead of just getting rid of him. And you send a bad message to the players in the rest of the league regarding how you treat people in the worst of times. Even your big fan Spike Lee and Mr. Basketball Bill Russell are critical of such incompetence.

Then you decide to sell the team out nine games into the season by dumping both of your high scorers and taking in the contract of someone who could not play and back up the point guard you spent too much money on.

Then teh following summer you get the result of your previous folly when FAs use you to bolster their contracts with their preferred teams. In the meantime you create an atmosphere of angst all summer long for your own homegrown players who both at some point during the season felt insulted until you finally communicated with them. But you publicly make it known that your current point is inadequate and the only reason he is still the point is because you are pinching pennies, but if you could’ve gotten Jason Kidd to take his place, you would have paid Kidd. Sure that makes your point leader feel secure and good about playing for you.

And what do you do with a guard filled draft? You pick up another forward, in part because you “don’t know the game” of one of the best guard prospects in the draft.

Now you have a coach that is so bad at coaching defense he goes to a zone in the NBA. You have created an atmosphere of such confidence and you wonder why they give up and are unprepared night in and night out. Unprepared to defend and unprepared to exert effort.

It’s not rocket science. And it’s not just x’s and o’s. This organization has not changed it’s culture, even without having the pressure of publicly humiliating and draining episodes such as sex trials and tribulations.

Fans are entitled to better. Fans are entitled to at least what they were promised in the first place. Why should they feel bad about that.

Sorry, Tommy but your apologist alibis for this team smack of fiction.

The roster that D’An and Walsh inherited was not a disaster. It may not have been one they liked, it might not have been one that offered imminent cap space but it was not a disaster. It was incomplete and and it was flawed but it was capable of a playoff berth.

THE CHOICE to throw all that out was Walsh and D’Antoni’s The consequences of that choice are Walsh’s and Dan’s. It’s not on Isiah, or Lb, or anybody else. This current steaming heap of a team is wholly their responsibility. Many of us could point out wholesale stupidity on the parts of Walsh and D’an that equal and sins of their predecessors.

i would respect your blog a lot more if you stopped kissing up to these jamokes and exercised some critical thinking. How does degrading this team to a D-League quality team make sense, Lebron or no?

Why is this acceptable? Because Walsh wants to play a Lotto ticket in 2010? Really? Should season ticket holders get a refund for this malfeasance?

Just askin’

Was he a rookie?? You sound like your on the Knicks payroll give me a break.

I think the skinny on Jennings was, Donnie was scared of his rep. Nothing else. He has to blame his European scouts to save face. Anyone with two eyes could’ve seen the kid could play. He has the eye of the tiger, and a feel for the game that’s uncanny. Walsh is not only old school, but to me, and old fool.

Yeah because everyone knows that with Randolph and crawford this team would be incredible, an instant playoff contender. They sucked, sure they suck now but they still were awful. They have a plan, and if Lebron James is a Knick next year you will be on board..

And this is coming from someone who agrees walsh and d’antoni get far too much leeway

The Day Donnie came the only thing I knew was the Pacers had him running operations for decades, which is very difficult to do with one team if your not succeeding. He then brought in Mike D which was the best choice at the time and gave us a coach that players love to play for and that was well experienced. He drafted Gallo cause he was 6’10 point foward who had a relationship with the coach and he would blossom best under coach even though I had my heart set on Eric Gorden. Then the marbury bullshit started. I was shocked in the morning of the day crawford trade happened cause we were doing pretty good and then Zach gets moved. During all summer all I heard was he should’ve moved Zach for the second rounder cause his contract couldn’t be moved. At that moment I was happy thinking about the possibilities in 2010. He made safe low risk low reward trades to fill in the rest of the roster. Rumors the following summer were that he could’ve pulled the trigger on will plus for the fifth pick and songalias awful contract (which was moved later bye-the-way)Then he drafts Hill who at Eight was actually good considering on most early mock draft was going anywhere from 4-7. I really thought minn would get point n hill or golden state would take hill cause of ellis.
–IMAGINE THIS TEAM WITH LOPEZ AT CENTER AND JENNINGS AT POINT OR PROB GORDAN AT SG CAUSE DONNIE PLANNED ON TRADING CRAWFORD. THEN YOU TRADE JEFFRIES WITH NATE AT THE DEADLINE LAST YR FOR EXPIRINGS WHICH SETS YOU FOR 2 ALL STARS SALARIES AND NY CAN GO OVER THE CAP CAUSE WERE NY AND TAKE BACK SALARY FOR EXPIRINGS AFTER SIGNING OUR FREE AGENTS.
BACK TO REALITY: We are 1-8 without our pick. We have a roster that needs developing and a holes at PG, C, SG the same holes we had last year. So Walsh and couch D def have to be accountable because we know now that brook lopez last year and trying to buy a second rounder to pick up mario chalmbers or a CDR and this year trading for the five to grab rubio and mabe trading our 8th for 2 first rounders mabe grabbing ty lawson or even a big could have had this team winning. If we cant spend any money y offer kidd or hill multi year deals even if the reported cap was higher at that time. We know that Donnie and Mike are not perfect and didnt make 100% perfect decisions. Mabe Marbury, crawford, and randolph would have played more competitive or simply “better” then the squad were putting out there this yr. Well minus marbury. Add Lopez and Jennings mabe we would have a chance at playoffs, but all the decisions they have made so far although not perfect were at the very least sound considering the rash and reckless moves of the past. Utah is smiling all the way to the lottery and we suck but there is hope. At the very least joe n bosh and go over cap n pick up player in a trade then 2011 go hard after CP3 and or durant. Well thats the only option we have is to wait.

@ IGMKNICKS, Excellent post, If i had Walsh’s email add. I’d send him that post after every sickening, disgusting, abysmal Knicks lost. Every 60-70 of them! Because a 60-70 lost team in no way will attract a player of the stature of a LBJ, Wade, or even a Bosh who live and die for “RINGS” not to begin 3-5 year plans along side projects!

the point is, 50 point games don’t mean anything. Just like Stephon’s and AI’s stellar rookie season.. and nash’s and Kobe’s mediocre season. Let me know when Steph’s in the HoF.

Jennings is in Milwaukee, get over it.

Isiah Thomas and Layden couldn’t dump excess salaries. They just couldn’t