The Iverson Thread

I think this is all about long term vs. short term.

If you are short term oriented then bringing in AI would probably add to the win total for this year by a few games. So maybe instead of winning 25-30 we would have won 30-35. LOL BIG DEAL!

If you are long term oriented then clearly Douglas is going to get more playing time and that’s a very good thing.

ultimately the right move by Donnie.

all the reasons have been said. its done.

Now get the market value of Curry up over the next 25 games. That is the most important objective going forward. this is not a 12 win team.. things will even out.

If Donnie can deal Curry the season is a success. other players can be dealt for more young assets.

lets move forward and get some wins.

Tommy how does Walsh owe the coach anything????? Mike D is the one that owe Walsh a lot of explanations. For starters why would he not start (or even give him 20 minutes a game) Marbury last year so other teams would want to give SOMETHING for him. And please don’t tell me that he would have not gotten anything for him because I am not buying it. This forced Walsh to do something he does not like to do. Also fans talking crap about Jordan Hill because they think he is a bust because he can’t get on the floor when is Mike D who will not put him in the rotation. To me, Walsh’s only bad move during his tenure here was hiring Mike.

Go Knicks (in 2010 at least).

IMO, should of did it

2-9, with the opportunity to sign one of the leagues best scorers for a buyout friendly veterans minimum sounds like a good deal to me…

Were not talking a 10 year, 100 mill contract…

The five to ten win differential is significant because it would hurt if Utah gets a pick between 3 and 10 rather than 10 to 16.

It wasn’t the right decision or the wrong decision….it was his decision. You can always bash him for not adding Ivy but at the same time you can praise him. I’ve said it before….you have got to let the plan play out. Are you still going to say Walsh doesn’t know what he’s doing IF next year comes and our starting 5 consists of Lebron and Bosh? Notice I said if because the direction we’re going in now……it will be very, very possible to sign both. Once Curry is traded and we finally get the most cap space of any team BY FAR will he still be senile?
Let the man do his job.
FYI: Some of you guys have a career waiting for you as a critic if you choose to go that route.

Amen!!!

dont you think if mike d’antoni thought that if jordan hill were any godamn good,he would give him some minutes?he obviously doesnt think that jordan hill can help.what he is saying is “I think Donnie Walsh took the wrong guy” “this kid Hill,has no idea how to play basketball”

This is actually irrelevant. The Knicks do not have the pick PERIOD. It doesn’t matter when Utah or anyone else picks picks other than psychologically . In fact it’s probably good that it’s Utah because they are in the other conference. If we wind up giving up the #1, #2, or #3 pick etc… I’d rather it be Utah than someone in the east.

thats true.. and since the freshman PG Wall from Kentucky will likely be the pick they will be looking to move it since they have Deron.

We’re maybe leaning towards the direction to be able to offer Lebron and Bosh a contract, but we’re far from a look that would motivate them to actually sign in NY.

Talentwise our pull is a mediocre two-way player, a talented but fragile shooter and a lotto pick that can’t snap minutes from Jared Jeffries and David Lee. Not good.

The only way to change that perception: Play the sh*t out of these guys, run plays for them, play them in their actual position, make them go to guys, tell those damn vets to give them the ball ffs!

The roster is a mess and the last draft was a disaster, but what makes me really mad about Walsh is that he let’s D’Antoni get away with this kind of team management.

None of this is true.

D’Antoni is simultaneously trying top develop young players like Gallo, Chandler, Douglas and Hill while also trying to win games. Gallo and Chandler are further along and have earned their minutes. Duhon has been playing poorly and Nate was hurt, so Douglas is getting a lot of minutes. Hill is the least developed of the 4 and he’s also behind Harrington, Lee, and Chandler in the front court. So he will selectively get minutes when they are getting blown out, are up a lot, when someone is hurt, or until he develops enough to break into the lineup without costing the team.

So when the Bulls were picking for us recently (from the Curry deal) wasn’t everyone with orange and blue blood begging that they didn’t get the #1 pick???? I know I was.

The pick was not Donnies decision alone.

Amen!!!!!!!!!

First of all, now that Andrew Bogut is hurt and out for a couple of weeks, Brandon Jennings is probably going to TEAR IT UP (more than he already has). And every 20/20 hindsight person on this blog is going to go nuts agonizing with their “what if” and “why didn’t we” scenarios.

Not that has anything to do with Allen Iverson. I wanted Allen Iverson to get signed for the rest of the year. It wasn’t a necessary move by any means, but something that would have equated to a couple of extra wins. But right now, the Knicks are awful in just about every facet of the game. I’ve got very little confidence that we notch more than 15 wins all year at this point because of how the team has played–with the possibility of winning even fewer than that. And I’m sorry, it doesn’t look good at all for our free-agent prospects if we end up with a hideous win-loss record. LeBron and DWade are both P.R.-savvy individuals and they both know that it would look TERRIBLE for their respective images if they took the money and signed with a 15-win team.

That’s why I think Iverson would have been useful. He wouldn’t have made the Knicks good, but he certainly would have made them less terrible. He would have given the team a legitimate focal point on offense, which is something the team is sorely lacking (although Al Harrington may disagree) . He gets to the free-throw line a lot, also something the Knicks lack. And while he’s not a traditional playmaker, I’d rather take his 7 or 8 assists a game than whatever it is that Chris Duhon is providing the team so far this year. And yeah, I know he’s a weak/indifferent defender, but the roughly 2 steals you can expect from him provide 2 extra possessions a game, and potentially 4 extra easy points a game. Pair him with Hughes in the backcourts and you’ve got a couple of thieves.

I can live with Donnie Walsh’s decision to pass on AI if he was genuine about it–that he wanted to let the young players develop. I want to see Douglas play 24 minutes a game. And Jordan Hill’s gotta get his time to play too. And Wilson Chandler. And Gallo. If it turns out that the Knicks passed on Iverson AND those young players don’t get their opportunities to play, it’ll be very disappointing to me.

In the end, it probably was for the best that the Knicks passed on AI, because there’s no need to turn Knick-land into a circus again. And because the Knicks need to stick to the youth development plan. But I can’t say I wouldn’t have wanted to see one of my favorite players of all-time don a Knicks jersey for about 70 games.

Donnie made the call. I trust him. He’s been patient the whole time, why buckle to NY media & fan pressure now.

I also think he has a deal set up for Curry. I’m looking into my crystal ball and see the outline of the state of Texas. Is it Houston, Dallas…………….?????
can’t tell yet.

McGrady for Curry & someone else??????? Hmmmmmmm?

Y dont u guys look to the right and look at the standings.. 2-9. 3rd worst in the league. Y not bring in a vet and a proven scorer that the players all admire for some leadership and at least some excitement for the fans? He costs nothing! Just the veterans minimum when were paying Jarred 6.5M to stink it up for this season and maybe next. If they are so afraid of slowing development, bench Duhon and Jeffries! Give Hill a chance. Makes no sense. Hopefully we can trade Curry and JJ and we can actually look forward to 2010. If not, we can always watch the Jazz draft the #1 pick in the MSG theater and say “that should of been us”.

Why do people keep saying we suck so Lebron or Wade won’t come? See this is the type of thinking that gets exposed every time. Lebron and Wade are franchise changing players. More Lebron than Wade but Wade is right there. Take Lebron off last years Cleveland team and tell me how many games you think they win with Mo Williams, Delonte West, Wally or Pavlovic @ the 3, Anderson V and Z as their starting 5. I won’t even list their bench.
Get out of here with that nonsense. They won 66 games last year because of one man and one man only. Their offense is give the ball to Lebron and spot up.

I have watched AI play for years.

There was a time when he was the best small man in the NBA. That time is gone. Yet his ego is inflated to the point that he is not even close to living in reality. Does anybody really want a guy like that on the team? Do you really think he’s going to help the Knicks in any way? All he will show the younger players is what not to be when they age. He’s a sorry case, typical of sports stars whose inflated egos have in their minds made their self worth well beyond their true value.

I like what Rasheed Wallace did by going to the Celtics. He knew and talked about his declining abilities and was very happy to be put in a position to be a role player on a winning team of veterans. I respect this man and others like him who put their ego aside and become a role player. Similar to a star actor realizing that as he ages his parts will be as a person who will have to play second banana to the younger new star.

AI is what’s wrong with sports now. It’s not about one player, as Pat Riley said there is no “I” in team, there is no “AI” either.

People talk down the Cavs roster all the time. It’s not enough for a Championchip, so? Why is that a pull for a Knicks roster that’s way worse (it will be even after free agency)?

A franchise player alone only gets you that far. Ask the Hornets.

Btw. as soon as Lebron declares he’s going to leave the Cavs every single team in the NBA is fair game (sign+trade). Knicks need to maximize every pull they have, right now they are actually doing the opposite.

Why do I keep torturing myself by looking at the box scores of the Bucks and the Kings:

Jennings had another great night.

w/ the Kings – I know we had no shot at T. Evans – but man oh man – I think he’s going to be the best of the 2009 draft. 6’6″ PG – put up what 29 points tonight – 10 assists – in leading his team to almost beating the Mavericks in Dallas.

Really have to question our organization tonight – these past two drafts (which we had to get dead right) have been less than inspiring – it’s still too early but – it is hard not to imagine Jennings and Lopez running the floor w/ maybe DeJuan Blair or Chase Budinger coming off the bench. Arrrrrr – let’s go get the Nets tomorrow and hope Mike D plays Hill, Douglas, Gallo, and Chandler and gives them some serious minutes.

might as well lose every game an let them get the first pick

good points

f danni boy
danni boy belongs in rucker park

Good final decision by Donnie……..though I must admit I was excited about

AI comin here………….hey, if these players dont care about winning and

playing hard, let them lose every game and embarrass themselves……….it

shows they have no heart or desire to be in the NBA………….and if they do

care, then it will be great to see them get better as a young team game by

game

alot of SHEEP on here.

I don’t know why so many fans on here try and find a reasonable excuse for every single bad move the Knicks make. The Knicks could have signed him to a ONE YEAR DEAL! He wouldn’t have hurt the 2010 plan at all! Plus, he would have taken minutes away from Duhon. Douglas could easily still have gotten his minutes, and Gallo and Hill don’t play the same position. There is no logical explanation for the Knicks not signing AI. Its about time all of the people on here open their eyes and realize the Knicks make the terrible decisions because…THEY ARE THE FREAKIN KNICKS!!!

Knicks give the Nets their first win tomorrow.

Wow..so let me ask u a question Dylan…you don’t think Donnie thought about that while weighing his options on signing Iverson?
Do you think there is any aspect of basketball that you know and Donnie does not?
Like I said before….certain bloggers tickle me

Of courrrrssssssseeeeee you didnt think donnie wouldnt do it tommy

So Lebron leaves Cleveland because his supporting cast sucks and he can’t win a championship with them and goes to a team with an equally bad supporting cast?

And whose thinking is being exposed?

Ok we get it, you love Donnie Walsh and want to have his kids.

Riddle me this: what Franchise NBA player has ever signed with a team via Free agency (not sign and trade but as a free agent) that has a win loss record like the Knicks? There is only one.

Now tell me how many players signed as a free agent (not sign and trade) and won a championship?

If you want to sign a NBA franchise type player as a free agent you have to have cap space and a competitive team. Don’t just blindly listen to the MSG propoganda and the writers/bloggers that want you to believe the hype.

About the arguement in the beginning of this thred:

You have to be pretty blind to think that the organization cares what pick the jazz get. Obviously, we want to win and we want them to get as low a pick as possible, but you actually think that desire will dictate any moves we make? If donnie brought in a player just so we could get utah a worse draft pick, he would be MENTALLY RETARDED, and lose the respect of every GM in the league. The pick is gone. It is not ours. It has nothing to do with us at all. If you think we should make moves because we don’t want them to get a better pick, you have a very skewed perception of how things work.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Jennings-091119

I dont think its a big deal that AI didnt come here. But DW has been making alot of moves just based on next year and that is fine because we do want to be players in the biggest FA classes ever assembled but what about us fans? DW has screwed up in the draft, I still dont understand why he chose a PF in Hill when our need was a PG, with one of the deepest PG deep drafts in recent memory. I understand we didnt take Jennings but no one knew how good he would be. I would rather a risk a 8th pick on developing a PG than another PF, I mean he drafted Gallo the year before because he might potentially be our PF? His thinking just doesnt make sense. In the ’08 draft our need was a C or PG and we still didnt get either one (passed on Brook Lopez, was a mistake…imagine him and DLee as our front court for years to come). I usually go to a couple of games a year (2-5) but this season I think I might hold back. There is no talent playing at MSG and the future is bleak even though we will have money to spend. I think AI would have been exciting to watch and I dont think it would have hindered in the growth of TD, Gallo, Hill (coach dont even play him now) and Chandler. I just hope the Knicks beat the Nets tomorrow.

BTW- ESPN was just comparing Branden Jennings rookie season to Jordans…wow, what a pick by the Bucks, but they know they got lucky.

More and more I look at this…it smells like Dolan killed this deal…

Just hope Mike D plays the young guns and start Curry as soon as able. DU-Du and Lee are not getting it done here except splitting the locker room…

This team is gonna be alright. Remember Boston had some bad years before getting their 2 All-stars I am one of the proponents to getting A.I here but now that’s dead and Walsh needs to pressure his coach into playing the kids more and make a trade for more expirings…

I feel like Dolan always has his paws involved in every move the Knicks make. He does not like trouble makers which is fine but sometimes not taking the risk is the biggest risk…AI would have injected life back into the Knicks this season and the Garden would have been pumped nigh in and night out. I just miss those 90′s Knick games when there was so much buzz at every game in MSG…

I am a native New York City kid, born and raised on this team, what I cant stand and will never stand is a whole lot of talking….Where I am from you to dont talk about it, you be about it. When Iverson became available they admitted in total honesty that we were not playing with enough effort and they could not figure out why, they saw that these expiring contract players were not giving effort, they admitted their surprise. The team sucks mentally, physically they can control how hard they play, mentally they choose to play with little fire and damn near NO HEART. Look Iverson would not have cured the ills of this team, but he would have played hard, sometimes just playing hard translates to wins, can these guys just play hard? Is that too much to ask? And Donnie just do me a favor, you know how this city works, you were born here, we dont talk about what we are going to do, we do what we are going to do.

You may not be twittering, but you damn sure seem to have a whole lot to say in the press…A simple, “we always explore what is out there, but its an organizational decision” would have been fine to say, to have leaks claiming 90% chance that A.I. will be signed and then come back and say we are going to develop our kids, when your 8th pick cant even get consistent minutes is just annoying….So Donnie do me this one, huh?

Work your plan and plan your work, but stop all the blabbering to the press, will ya?

What do we gain from this? AI , Knicks and everyone in the NBA knew the AI would be a temp fix. He might have really shined in the uptempo system and could have been evaluated later as far as the future

He could have helped players see how going out and giving 100% looks like . (Who else plays that way now on our team?) and might have really helped get us more wins and possibly into the playoffs where the likes of Gallo, Chandler , Douglas , Nate , Lee……

Instead , we are stuck with a losing culture , a sure fire guarantee of no post season and a very less appealing look into teh FA’s next summer

WE are off to a Franchise worst start and hey pass on AI?

Really dont get it and while I understand the whoe “BRAND ” of NY thing , its about taking chances

Anyone remember Van Gundy taking a chance ob Spree ? Look what it did for NY then…

In my opinion…..same philosophy

Mistake unless Walsh has something else up his sleeve

I hate that this team only knows how to lose …………

i meant …lee , gallo, nate , ,hill, chandler & douglas coul gain valuable experience if they got a chance to play in the post season…..

Didint finish that sentence
\

oooops

Hey if DW pulls the TMac deal than you kno what I can understand him not wanting to go out get Iverson. That would be amazing, especially if we can somehow convince the Rockets to take Eddy Curry. IMHO the Rockets need a big man and they have certainly proven to be a solid team with out TMac, why bother fitting him back into the rotation, trade him and his bloated contract to the Knicks and get back a Curry who hopefully can prove he is still a low post threat. Yao is out anyway and is injury prone, he might be a good pick up for them and when Yao is healthy he can be the complimentary backup center. Heck throw a 2nd round draft pick if you have to, throw in anything you can to make the money work. Id even be willing to do Duhon, Dlee, Curry 2nd Rd Pick for Tmac and a bag of old towels. The Rockets get a solid PF, a decent backup PG and a much needed center. The Knicks will inject some life back into their disasterous season and will have the most cap space next season to really intrigue the big names (KING JAMES and who ever he would like to bring along with him) I really hope this is what DW has up his sleeve…all else would be forgiven!!!

I believe walsh has made a mistake here. I do not blame him or like him any less and i trust his opinion, but I think bringing in Iverson would have been a low risk high reward situation. One of our biggest needs was a legitimate go to scorer late in games, and maybe or maybe not, Iverson could have provided that. Why not take him at 1.4 mil for one year? If anything he could come here rejuvenate the team and his career to some extent and possibly embrace the city. What if he plays well and decides to come back on a low salary next year and draws a big name free agent to ny.? It would be a huge home run for Walsh and what could the downside be? He bombs on a weak and struggling non-playoff team and draws even 2% more fans to the building. Sign me up.
The whole development of young players reasoning is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. The only player who plays any sort of position close to what iverson plays or what he gives and can give, is Tony Douglas and I guess Duhon. Duhon is not in the young future category. So are we to believe that the progression of Tony Douglas is the sole reason for the non-move.? Gallinari,Chandler and Jordan Hill would not be affected one bit by an Iverson signing. I just don’t get it, give us something for this year. This doesnt even hurt us for next year, it can only help. Explain Tommy, explain.

Sorry, it looks like they’ll hitch their wagon to Curry now to see how far that will roll. It seems improbable that they will trade him for assets.

well said

If the Knicks had LeBron and Bosh to start a team from scratch, the rest would easily fall into place.
LeBron and Bosh together would immediately make the Knicks relevant.

That’s why I am more concerned about moving Curry and Jeffries than anything else!

Kevin Garnett didn’t want to go to Boston, but changed his tune once they acquired Ray Allen.
Once we get one big name free agent, if we have the cap room, and we very well might………..
The others will come.

With all the this talk about A.I. one must think……
Why have the teams that will be contending for a championship, not been fighting to sign him?
He is what he is, and he can be a very disruptive and/or polarizing force.

If Donnie can rid us of at least Eddy Curry, or better yet Curry and Jeffries,
then we’re in such a great position moving forward for 2010.
If he can’t, we’ll still be in great shape to complete the “new look Knicks” by 2011, when Curry and Jeffries contracts expire.

We just have to deal with this, and quit whining!

Kevin Garnett was traded to Boston. So was Ray Allen.

Hello to everybody from italy. The only thing i’m deeply concerned about is the back of danilo. He clearly does not move or run with a normal fluidity. I hope to be wrong, but i don’t think he is completely healed. As for iverson, well, not signing him was a logical move because basket is a team and chemistry game. It seems that many fans prefere the playground game, so please instead of writing curious post on the blogs, why don’t you go to these ny playgrounds to get fun and stay in peace. So WELL DONE DONNIE.

It would be a mistake if DW is not planning on other deals. I got to believe Curry and JJ will porduce alternatives to AI that will be better for team chemistry and improvement going forward. We all agree this team is pretty bad but if Duhon, Chandler and Robinson get back to last years production this team could be somewhat competitive. Go Knicks

And they were already starting off with this other scrub named Paul Pierce. (sarcasm)

Galinari is looking more and more like a bum with every passing game.

Right on. Probably the Curry talk heating up (as has been suggested before around TKB parts, a JJ move probably comes at the deadline to a contender)

It’s a good point about Danilo. He looks like a robot out there. Back surgery is never good. Even surgeons that perform it have told me that.

If we get massively lucky with LBJ and Bosh (or something in that area), then he’ll get open without doing a ton and shoot well. I think a different pick fits SSOL better, but, hey, I think Gallo will be good if we, again, get lucky. What are ya gonna do…

Hill should be playing over Galinari at this point. Galinari can’t get open, he doesn’t move without the ball and when he’s not being active offensively he’s invisible out there. Might as well play Hill, at least when he is out there you know it, find out what he can do.

And “if” was a spliff, we’d all be hiiiiiigh!!

Here’s my take on Iverson (for what it’s worth):

We as Knick fans have to differentiate between the complete rubbish we had under Thomas and the rebuilding mess we have under Walsh. Yes, the Knicks have been bad for a long time (just ask Mike Lupica, who writes a ridiculous article in today’s Daily News). The losing stinks and we all want it to stop.

But, today when we watch the Knicks lose we watch a rebuilding team lose. The team has some guys on it that need minutes and time to learn how to play on the NBA level (Hill, Douglas, Chandler, Gallinari). That’s four young players that are going to be here next year when fill-in-the-blank free agent savior (or two) arrives. These guys need minutes, plain and simple. Adding a guy that requires 40 minutes a game (Iverson) just isn’t in the spirit of rebuilding.

And that’s my point. We’re rebuilding! Rebuilding teams stink. But, they stink in a slightly less odoriferous way than a team that has no plan and no end to the stench in sight. That’s no the case with this team.

So what if Iverson would have made this season a bit more interesting (and I say this not completely convinced that he would have because the freaking Memphis Grizzlies couldn’t find value in playing him at this stage of his career)?

Would you rather an interesting or instructive season for the young guys?

There is nothing else in the “area” of LeBron that’s the problem. If Walsh is unable to get him to come to a team that sucks and hasn’t won a playoff game in going on 11 years and shows an inability to evaluate elite talent while building through the draft, there really is no 2nd option.

Rebuilding teams that have been to the lottery in BACK TO BACK years usually have at least one legitimate star in the making to watch and take your mind off of said stench on an odd night or two.

Galinari will be great in the 3 pt shooting contest, but he looks like a bum (not a bust, there’s a difference) more and more each game. I hope he turns it around, so I’ll save my official declaration on his bum status until the midseason.

hey, biggie, you are on the right track
our world is full of if’s.
if ai comes to town, all else drops down.
if eddie curry continues to play and improve, that is a major asset that would never have been with ai
if ec plays well, a lot of other possibilities open up, including determining david lee’s value as a true 4
that was the initial plan, so stick to it.
if we took jennings, but yes, play jordan hill more, he has skills.
if danilo would watch some tape of larry bird, he will learn what to do when the ball is not in your hands.
our world is full of if’s.