Examining the Nets Pieces

by Tommy Dee on December 5th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

Looking forward to heading to MSG tomorrow to see which team extends its one game winning streak. But seriously, I hear from fans via email and in conversation and how they feel that the Nets have really good pieces as they compare to the Knicks and how they are concerned that they will ultimately attract a star free agent because of it.

Now while I can’t totally disagree seeing that the Nets will add another via the draft this year, there are several things I’d like to point out what I see in terms of what they have on the roster.

Brook Lopez- A solid young big man? Yes. A franchise center? We’ll see. Some people think Lopez has the ability to be a Tim Duncan type.

Duncan, like Lopez, didn’t wow you with his FG percentage numbers. But what Duncan could do at a very early stage in his career, was dominate in the low block with his ability to make shots off the backboard. He’s done that throughout his career as good as anyone in the history of the game. There are few unguardable and  unstoppable shots in the history of the NBA- from Kareem’s Skyhook, to Jordan’s fadeaway and to Kobe’s, well a lot of Kobe’s shots, there are certain shots that a team just can’t defend. Duncan’s bank shot is right up there.

Lopez has to develop the ability to consistently hit mid range shots and really be a force in the paint defensively to maximize his potential. Yes I know he’s third in the NBA in blocks, but there are plenty of times I’ve watched where Lopez is very passive in the paint. If he were a Knick I believe fans would be screaming at him to knock someone on their ass and show “Oakley-like” toughness. It’s just not who he is.

Lopez is a nice piece, but when you think about it, shouldn’t a “dominant big man” win more than 1 game in 29 tries?

Devin Harris- What I like about Harris is his size and speed in the open floor and that he really gets after you defensively. What stars need from their point guards, however, is that they HAVE to be able to knock down open shots in the half court. It’s where big games are won and lost. Harris has a good contract and is the cornerstone of this franchise, but if you’re talking about championships and having the ball in the hands of a Lebron James or Dwyane Wade, those players have to trust players to bang down open looks. See Kobe and Derek Fisher, Lebron and Mo Williams etc.

CDR- I like this kid a ton. Gets after it every possession. Perfect 6th man. Will he be okay with playing LESS that 36 minutes per? Because on a really good team, he’d have to.

T-Will- I had a Big East assistant tell me in June that he’d be the steal of the draft. Thus far that honor belongs to Brandon Jennings, but Williams is a defender who can scamper in the open floor. He’s not a great shooter tho, and unless he improves it’s hard to imagine that he’ll be a big minute, fourth quarter player on a championship team. He will be a solid rotation player his whole career though.

2010 Lottery Pick- How can the team pass on John Wall? They can’t…if they don’t pass on him will they hand the keys to him or pair him with Williams and Harris? None of the big men will be NBA ready to contribute right away, so the team will have to get playing time for the draft pick that will cost them $5 million dollars against the 2010 cap. Like Harris, though, Wall’s weakness maybe knocking down open jumpers in the half court during crunch time, but in the open floor he’s simply ridiculous at the college level.

Yi, Keyon Dooling, Sean Williams, Courtney Lee: Pieces who could be moved or kept as rotation players.

The Knicks have a roster advantage, in my opinion, when you look at two factors:

1) Cap space to sign a 2nd max player, especially if they can deal Jeffries. Youth is great, veteran experience is priceless.
2) Every player the Knicks have drafted can catch and shoot. when you factor in the space and open looks a star creates, you need to be able to bang down open looks. Gallo can do that as can Toney Douglas. Jordan Hill can only benefit from playing with a star player or two because with his tools his WANT to learn, stars can only make him better.

The team also has options on Nate Robinson, who like T-Will could be a solid piece of a winning rotation, David Lee, Al Harrington and Wilson Chandler…

The team also has the opportunity to land 2 cheap second round picks, probably college upper classmen,  who may be able to contribute right away next season.

What are your thoughts on the Knicks and Nets future pieces?


View Results

Loading ... Loading ...
  • DatNewYorker

    The Nets have a better roster But they still play in New Jersey. If the Nets were sure to be in Brooklyn in 2010 maybe a star free agent signs with the Nets. The Knicks best player under contract is Gallo and the Nets best players are Brook Lopez and Devin Harris and Courtney Lee. The Knicks may be stuck with Curry so I don’t think our chances are very good. Only the best players can handle our NY media and the pressure of the fans. I like Joe Johnson but he doesn’t look strong enough to handle NY. Like Artest said, players are scared to come here. Wade and Lebron are probably the only free agents that can handle being in NY by themselves. Chris Bosh can’t handle NY either.

  • Mucha

    Terrence Williams is terrible in my opinion, he was the most overrated prospect from the 2009 draft – by far. Many Knicks fans wanted Terrence Williams – they can’t complain about Jordan Hill. I mean T-Will was a great player in college but his numbers were average. And they still are :

    0.348 FG% 0.286 3FG% 0.658 FT%

    Awful.

    But Brook Lopez is a STUD. I think he’s more talented than Devin Harris (slightly overrated IMO) and he’s a better player than Gallinari but I think Gallinari has a higher ceiling. It’s actually a toss-up from a win-loss perspective : Lopez won the game against the Bobcats, Gallinari led the way against the Suns.

    The Nets have more talent to offer (Lopez, Harris, Douglas-Roberts, Courtney Lee, 2010 lottery pick) but I think the 1st round draft pick makes the difference. They’ll have a top 5 pick – they’d definitely have a better supporting cast to offer with (say) John Wall and Brook Lopez. But if Jordan Hill reaches his potential and Gallinari stays healthy, the Knicks won’t be far behind.

  • Mucha

    Puss*es are scared to come here – fixed.

    Joe Johnson can’t be the 1A free agent. I don’t believe that Johnson isn’t strong enough to handle the pressure, but he wouldn’t match our expectations without a guy like LeBron.

  • DaGawD_KnowLedge

    the knicks will be stuck on SUCK for a while even after next summer
    they just going 2 suck a little LESS

  • oscar f

    Well Tommy there are 2 things wrong with your points. The knicks dont have enough room yet to declare being capable of signing 2 max players. (and that will be difficult to do) And if the nets ever get WALL they could easily lure the top FA s including LeBron. Jennings would of gave the knicks the edge Wall can give the nets

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    If lopez played for the knicks I guarantee the majority would call him soft…thinking he should have “edge” to his game…elbows etc.

    I actually guarantee that…

  • itzyung1

    You are right on the money. What is the point in a prototypical PG when you want a star we should be focusing on catch and shoot PG’s. O wait we have Toney Douglas! Look at Mario Chalmers and Mo Williams.

  • rocky

    yep I’d day the Nets have more promising young talent than we do,
    they also will have a lotto pick.

    what we have is NYC, and a fan base that will return.
    the nets in their best years had 6 drunks and a birthday party out in the swamp
    and now they don’t even have the swamp.

    On Lopez, I think hell be a great piece of a team in a few years if not sooner.
    To compare him to Duncan is unfair. To ask Nets for “Oakley like toughness” is strange because they had some deep history and pretty tough guys over there,
    KMart, Buck Williams, Mahorn, Micheal Cage, wasn’t Mase a Net before he was a knick, Chocolate Thunder was not a wuss.

    I think free agents will be atracted to the Knicks over the Nets because
    the Knicks are NYC, broadway..the nets are adrift in landfill.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Yeah I don’t agree…

    They still have time to move JJ.

  • rocky

    you know if Walsh does anything this season it will be
    jettisoning the contracts of Curry or Jeffries in order to be able
    to sign two A-class FAgents next season.

  • itzyung1

    Its easy for us to focus on the things we don’t have like a Prototypical PG and a Big Man but Nets fans can say the same like we have a really good wing player and a good PF with whats looking like a good upside.

  • oscar f

    Moving JJ isnt enough to sign 2 max players and fill the roster . You Tommy and the knicks know both Curry and JJ have to be moved for that to work.

  • bartnyk

    NY should trade for a Lottery pick and get a guard Evan Turner

  • oscar f

    Those of you who think MSG is enough for the top players to sign the most important 5 years of thier careers are dreaming. Lebron is the most marketable player in the league and he ha sthe ability to double revenue anywhere he goes . He already said that any team he plays for would be relevant and that he wants to win multiple rings so a team has to present that opportunity for him. BUT HE AINT STAYING WITH THE CAVS THATS FOR SURE!!!!!

  • Realist_Knick_Fan

    Please – please stop it – your primary argument for 2 max players is based on trading Jefferies. I don’t care if the trading deadline is mid-February – that is too speculative – and your argument is based on an assumption at this point. It is not based on facts – it undermines the rest of your point that the Nets do not have more attractive pieces and a brighter future. It’s an argument based on hope rather than facts – and those are the worst kinds.

  • CircleLimit4

    Unloading Jeffries or Curry will probably give us the edge over the everyone else, but until then the future looks slightly brighter for the Nets

  • ds2488

    It would be a miracle of epic proportions for another team to take Jeffries off our hands. Who wants to pay the worst player in the league 6 million a year? I can think of maybe Chris Wallace or Mike Dumbleavy. Until the Knicks are able to unload either Jeffries or Curry the Nets definitely have a brighter future, although I agree with Tommy that the Knicks probably have players better suited to play complementary roles to an all-star.

  • Jeff Cykiert

    I have a feeling B. Lopez’s value is going to go down. he surprised everyone with a great rookie season, which is very, very rare when it comes to big men of that type. I think what we are already seeing, and what we will continue to see over the next couple years, is that the other big men in his draft class and the ones surrounding it will catch up to him. I feel like he played great in his rookie year, but he is what he is, while other raw centers who followed the more typical learning curve will eventually pass him. I think he will always be a very solid center but not a franchise center.

    I would rather have Galo than any plyaer listed.

  • EQ1217

    The only thing we have over the Nets is MSG and our fanbase, and while that’s a really big deal, that’s all we have.

    Lopez is a 20 10 2blk C in this league and a better player tha Gallo at this point. As much as we all love Gallo, he’s really
    only had 1 game (Suns game) were he looked like a star, every other game he was just decent with some flashes.

    Lee, CDR and TWill are good rotation players

    Harris is not a great PG but he’s 100x times better than what we have on our roster.

  • DatNewYorker

    BUT I STILL DO’NT SEE ANY STAR FREE AGENTS PLAYING IN JERSEY. I WOULD NOT WANT TO PLAY IN JERSEY. WHEN THEY WENT TO THE FINALS, THE FANS DID NOT SUPPORT THE TEAM. TOO MANY EMPTY SEATS.

  • Realist_Knick_Fan

    And the silence is deafening . . . .

  • HaS

    If LeBron went to the Nets do any of you think that there would be empty seats? Do you think there wouldn’t be bandwagon fans to make the trek to Newark or Brooklyn to watch King James, Brook Lopez, John Wall etc.?

    Please.

  • donnie walsh

    am i missing something or is tommy’s point about brook lopez that he is not as good as tim duncan— one of the top 10 players in the history of the NBA… Astounding argument, you’ve changed my whole perspective!!!

    The Nets have definites. Devin Harris is DEFINITELY a very good young PG. Brook Lopez is, at the minimum, a DEFINITE solid young big man. They will have probably the 1st pick. You said knicks fans would get at Lopez for not being tough like oakley– who is? Tim Duncan certainly isnt. Some of the points are not found even close to relevancy.

    The knicks have questions. Gallo is a question because of his health and inconcistency. No one knows what Hill is, Chandler has regressed, TD hasn’t lit the world on fire. They dont have a good pick this year. You cited Lee, Harrington and Nate as if theyre likely to stick around which is probably not the case. Certainly more likely to leave than stay at least.

    I sip the kool aid on this website about MSG and D’antoni being enough to lure lebron. But at a certain point you cant convince me the sky is purple and grass is orange. The nets have a signifffffiiiccantly more attractive core. Its just the way it is.

  • donnie walsh

    And gallinari is the lenny dykstra of baseball?

  • donnie walsh

    thank god. I was worried there weren’t other active brains on here.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    huh?

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Ah, right people born after Ewing was drafted have it all figured out.

    Active brains in college, for the most part is an inherent contradiction.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    point about brook lopez that he is not as good as tim duncan— one of the top 10 players in the history of the NBA… Astounding argument, you’ve changed my whole perspective!!!

    i said people talk about him like he’s supposed to be…and funny enough, most are KNICK FANS.

    read what you want to read, i guess…

  • donnie walsh

    Tim Duncan isn’t a gritty oakley type player just as lopez isnt. That has nothing to do with how good he is at basketball. So what if he isn’t incredibly gritty. Pau Gasol was supposedly soft until Kobe brought the toughness out of him.
    Hes a very talented basketball player- thats what matters.

  • donnie walsh

    so 1985 is the barrier between those who make good points and those who do not?

  • donnie walsh

    Probably be some front runner knicks fans jumping ship too. Certainly the execs in the nice seats. No sense in taking a client to a craptacular team in manhattan when the best player on the planet is right in brooklyn.

    Dont think this’ll happen but lebron would certainly bring credibility/fans to the nets.

  • HaS

    He could end up being as good as Tim Duncan. I doubt it but he could, you never know. I’ve also heard that Hill will be better than Amar’e Stoudemire. We’ll never know until he takes off those warmups.

  • HaS

    Moreover, in this age of forgetting or not acknowledging those who cam before them, the Nets could suddenly be the team on everyone’s lips. The media would certainly shift its focus across the Hudson or across the BK Bridge, depending on where the team ends up.

  • Mucha

    Young Tim Duncan = NBA Championship

    Young Brooke Lopez = 1-18

    Obviously Lopez is a great young player and he does not have Sean Elliott and David Robinson but still, the difference between Larry O’Brien and the worst record ever is bigger than Elliot and Robinson. It’s not even close.

  • ds2488

    The fact is that Lopez is still inconsistent even though he has great stats and Devin Harris is not definitely a good pg. Harris is a good player, but personally I think he really lacks the pass first mentality that a pg needs to have. Lopez despite his amazing stats has put up some real clunkers that don’t necessarily show up on his stat sheet. I recently watched him get dominated by both Roy Hibbert and Eric Dampier in 2 separate games. Right now despite his inconsistency he is still a better player than Gallo, although I would rather have Gallo as a future prospect than Lopez.

  • Bobbo

    Your facts are wrong, to begin with.

    The Nets will have $24.9 million in cap space. The Knicks will have $23.5 million. That’s not a guess. That’s from a respected league source. The Heat will have $18.8 million. The Wolves $14.8 million, but they play in Minnesota. The Nets, not the Knicks, will be able to sign two max free agents although they have said they are unlikely to do so. The Nets also will have fewer roster spots to fill than the Knicks. What does that mean? It means they’ll be able to spend less money on secondary players.

    The Nets will almost certainly have the richest owner in professional sports by January. The Forbes estimate of Prokhorov’s wealth is outdated. It’s closer now to $20 billion rather than the year old Forbes estimate of $9.5 billion. The biggest source of his wealth is a near 40% stake in the world’s sixth biggest gold producer. Check the price of gold.

    The Nets have nine draft picks in the next three drafts–five first rounders and four second rounders. Only one of the nine has any protections and that’s light protection: the Warriors’ first round pick in 2012 is protected 1-7. No team has more picks. The Knicks have four picks in the next three drafts, two firsts, two seconds.

    This will help you understand…

    http://www.netsdaily.com/?p=8910

    As for your comparison re: personnel, when Tim Duncan was Brook Lopez’s age, he was a senior at Wake Forest. There aren’t a lot of 21 year old centers in this league capable of putting up 30-and-10 games, which Lopez has done twice this year. In fact, there are no other 21 year old centers capable of doing that. Bynum is 22. Oden is done.

  • Myles A. Mills

    his team is 1-18, give me a break. He’s soft, he whines all the time, he has predictable post moves, he’s slow, and he shoots a low percentage from the field.

    Devin Harris looks terrible this year.

  • HaS

    David Robinson is a Hall of Fame Top 50 NBA player. If the Nets had the equivalent of that to team with Brook (not saying he is anywhere near Duncan in his rookie year but…) along with a healthy Devin Harris as a poor man’s Sean Elliot (not comparing their skill sets, so relax) and that team is top 3 in the East.