2010: A Knick Fan’s Odyssey

Good piece.

I agree on the AI point.

Step two is signing Amare or Joe johnson.

Tommy I will be responding to this Zeek bash artical and hope it get’s the same love this one sided misleading artical has recived in being posted.
Giving donnie a pass blaming zeek is trash, but i will not go in to it at this point any forther then saying you will be reciving my reply artical soon.

I will say that part of rebuilding is making the most of high draft picks!!

here is something Lebron our #1 target this off season had to say and reflects on DONNIES drafting last draft!

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/63236/20091206/lebron_excited_by_jennings_says_scoring_50_is_difficult/

I don’t think the Bulls signed James – we traded him and Thomas for Hughes – James is an expiring 2010 contract. Bulls just wanted to get rid of Hughes on the bench – it was a swap of expirings.

Agreed with earlier post – the most sound way of rebuilding is through the draft. Acquiring players through FA is difficult and hard to do. There usually has to be a draft pick plus a big FA for championship to work (Kobe and Shaq) or another team’s GM who has a previous allegiance to that team in the 1980s gift wrapping the missing piece (KG and McHale – but even in that scenario – Paul Pierce was drafted – we do not have a Paul Pierce on this roster via the draft – bad drafting this decade – just a bad past two decades really – save Charlie Ward).

I’m looking forward to reading blackwood’s article but if he is going to measure GMs by evaluating what they did with high draft picks, I’d like to hear his explanation for trading away the second overall pick for Eddy Curry, taking Channing Frye instead of Andrew Bynum and Trading Marbury for what could be a top 5 pick this year.

“zeek is trash”

we all agree with you blackwood.
no arguements here. LoL

I stopped reading this blog daily because its impossible to read all of the negative comments about Donnie Walsh and why he didn’t draft so and so or trade for so and so. Or why he’s a terrible person because he doesn’t want to mortgage the future to try and barely make the playoffs this season by dipping into next year’s cash. It is nice to read a well thought out post acknowledging the fact that our hands are tied and have been for awhile. The NBA is very unlike other sports because of the salary cap, and it has been so poorly mismanaged in NY for way too long. When Donnie was hired he said he was gonna fix that- and he has fixed it in a very short time. Our future is bright no matter what happens in free agency this year. We can make moves based on the value of the move, and not have to worry about the salary cap getting in the way.

I say our plan should be to try and get Lebron in 2010. If that fails try and get Bosh or Johnson and try for Carmelo in 2011. I think patience is paramount and will allow us the opportunity to build a team for the future without handcuffing ourselves with bad contracts. .

Other things is, Donnie drafted Gallo, who is proving a better choice than anyone drafted after him. Knicks fans go around in circles about this. Gallo could turn into Bird and some people will still be crying for Eric Gordon.

It’s tough to explain common sense to the senseless.

(I’m agreeing with you…lol)

How is it Zeke bashing if it’s all true? Zeke deserves to be bashed for his horrendous performance with the Knicks. Zeke was an idiot and the worst executive in the history of the league. He didn’t understand the the NBA salary cap. Made financial moves that constrained the team. Didn’t see that NBA rule changes had steered the league away big slow centers so he signed or traded for every big slow guy with as big a contract as possible (James, Curry, Randolph). I mean he destroyed an entire league for Christ sake (CBA)! (Now thats Zeke bashing).

Donnie has had some bad decisons and missed opportunties but it’s nowhere in the same vicinity as Isiah. I’m not going to mention anyone by names but I read some of these posts and it’s the same guys bashing

Donnie
Dantoni
Lee
Gallo

while at the same time defending
Isiah
Starbury
Nate “Lil Him”

I wonder what’s so different between the first list and the second list? Let’s try to rate this team on performance instead of anything else. The Knicks just head their best week of the seaon but yet I’m seeing the most negative comments to date this year.

oh….and saying “good win” and then complaining the rest of the post, refusing to give credit to the people you dislike doesn”t meant that you are not entirely negative. It’s like saying “With all due respect” before you call somebody fat.

This is spot on…good stuff Kid Tarheel

Doctors Walsh and D’Antoni are in, and for all you fans who thought there were no consequences to years bad living, it’s time to shut up and take your medicine. It you want to get well you can’t cheat, cut corners and think that there’s any easy solution, then you need to reexamine your basketball/sports/life IQ. Life, business and creating a true championship team is hard, deal with it.

I am more hopeful of championship today than I’ve been for nearly a decade. Anything less is BS.

Yeah nice article and I agree with everyone here. Blackwood im sorry but Zeke was one of the worst gms in the history of the league, no question about it. By the end of his run, we were spending over 100 million on teams that couldn’t win more than 32 games. Thats insane, we were paying 2x as much as most teams for players that were half as good. He was a horrible drafter and as much as the jury’s still out on DW’s draft picks I think most would agree Gallinari is the best young prospect the KNicks have had in a long time, at least since Zeke’s run as gm. And Zeke is still screwing us to this day. Its just facts right there, I can’t wait to see what sort of spin you try and put on this.

I believe Underpants Gnomes is the preferred nomenclature.

Zeke’s regime turned out pretty bad no doubt. He changed the script more times than a soap opera. And the harassment stuff was the icing on the cake.

First mistake was bringing in Larry.. But that was on Dolan and was the beginning of the end.

Buit Zeke DID take a roster that was old and overpaid, non talented and mismatched and turned it into a young, overpaid, talented but mismatched roster.

He gave up too much in mid level contracts and gave away too much for E City.

But the problems in NYC go back way way befor ethat and it all gooes back to Dolan.

Dolan was the one who wanted Camby and Spree off the roster. He was the one who wanted to sign Allan Houston and He was the one who promoted the frat house atmosphere n the business unit.

Zeke’s ultimate undoing was Dolan insisting that he run the team as a head coach and handle the roster as a GM. After the sex suit Marbury was personna non grata and IT lost the team.

Point is there is a long history of Suck at the garden and it reeks from the top. I just hope Dolan stays out of Donnie’s hair.. First strike was trying to push for the playoffs last year..

Ill let it go at that.

I agree that a lot of blame goes on Dolan Biggie, but Zeke had one of the best situations any gm could as for in that he had an owner willing to pay as much money as possible. Dolan may interfere too much and Zeke was inheriting a messy terrible roster from Layden, but Zeke pretty much had free run to do whatever he wanted financially and creatively speaking and all he did was make a really bad situation exponentially worse. And we can still see that today and its definitely still working against DW. We are paying 2 players who have no business playing 17 million or more a year total. We now have no draft pick that would seem to definitely be a top 10 pick this upcoming draft in a talented class. I understand that it starts at the top and Dolan is definitely part of the problem, but Zeke dug his own grave with his horrible management and its still hurting us today. To try and make it like Dolan interfered by imposing Larry Brown and then the coaching job on Zeke would be overlooking the 2 years he completely failed on his own after promising to turn the team around right away. The difference is DW has always said its about 2010, and most fans seemed to agree with that sentiment at the time.

I agree with everything, Quaspec, except did Zeke destroy the CBA? I guess you were kidding.

Zeke as was bad as any pro exec in history, but Elgin Baylor comes close. He had gigabucks to spend and instead of a dynasty like the Yanks the Knicks became a wreak. Zeke has no business sense and it totally incompetent as a team builder and coach. He should have at least hired a coach and stayed off the floor.

Walsh did great so far in clearing out most awful contracts and players who don’t have what it takes to play championship ball. NO one could do any better. Now we have tons of cap space. That’s better than nothing. He needs a year or 2 more to show us what he can do. Most whiners in this blog think he can pull any deal he wants, as if there weren’t 29 other teams also trying to make deals. Gallo and Hill were good picks in theory. Many teams have the same result with draft picks. It’s a crap shoot. We’ll see what Walsh can do by the end of July. I won’t judge him till then.

Agreed. To blame Zeek for everything is misguided. He tried to get us a franchise PG in Marbury, but gave up too much to get him, became too friendly with him, and didn’t do a thorough enough check into his mental makeup (anyone who writes all alone on his shoes probably isn’t your franchise player).

He also tried to get us a franchise center but (see above) made the same exact mistakes with Marbury. He also had no idea how to build a team. He put a bunch of young, impressionable questionable character and work ethic guys on the same team with veterans who couldn’t contribute on the court to be the role models. Once he had Marbury, Curry, Crawford, he should have brought in defensive minded veterans who had won and could still contribute.

Donnie is 180 degrees from Thomas. He doesn’t overpay for anything and sees needs but would rather be patient than reactive. I’m not in the fire Donnie or fire D’Antoni camp. Way too early. But I would like to see some holes filled before 2010 and better drafting in the interm.

BTW Gallo is already better than all of the players drafted after him. Really?

Yes excellent post.

I agree with you totally. But you also forgot how bad Scott Layden was.

promising to turn the team right around was fools gold.. and it has been since we traded Ewing.bad move but was that Dolan speaking behind the curtain?

tell me..and be honest.. Lets say we never hired Larry Brown and there was never a sexual harassment problem.

I think things could have been every different. Remember that all the zeke contracts on the roster when he left were scheduled to expire in 2011.. One year b4 the big year but maybe not if Lebron decides to take the players option (a possibility) and stays one more year in Cleveland. Then 2011 is REALLY a big year..

Donnie has struck to the script for the most part.. except when i chastised him for taking Lee off the market and not pushing for a dump at the deadline last year..

Both of you are spot on imo. Knicks4Life and Biggie.

donnie plan is good so far
but he will over pay 1 player or 2

he has already over payed for duhon.

plus this league is all about over paying players..

By the way, I decided to go to the game today . I had vowed never to go again until the Knicks started playing respectabel basketball and after a couple of nice wins I decided to go to the Garden again. Hard to really evaluate a players game on TV too.

Watching it live I can say Duhon is worse than I thought. Jeffries isn’t good either but his energy, especially that charge that he took in the 4th qtr really fired up the team. I can see why D’Antoni likes him, but he just is not a good basketball player. Sad to see Nate glued to the bench and not up and cheering the team on.

Larry Hughes seems to be the key to this team both on offense and defense. If he can find some consistency, this team can win some games.

If Gallo beefs up a little bit and becomes a natural 4, he may be able to be special (not Dirk but special nonethless). He can flat out shoot but Donnie was right, to be effective in this league he will have to become a four which means he has to learn how to rebound, in traffic, and defend the post. He can’t defend wing players thats for sure and he’s taller than I thought. WIth that said, and Hill on the roster, I just don’t see where Lee fits in, especially at the $$ he is looking for. Hope Gallo’s back injury doesn’t keep him from hitting the weights.

If this team can get a real PG they can win 30 games. Maybe more. True they were playing the Nets but they are not as bad as I originally thought. Duhon walking the ball up the floor and just being all around awful is the team’s biggest detriment.

Biggie I will say this in Zeke’s defense and it is probably the only time I will ever compliment him. He actually had that team from 3 years ago playing good bball when he was forced to be their coach and gm after Larry Brown I believe. They were sticking around .500 and fighting for the final playoff spot playing hard for their coach Zeke as he was in the last year of his contract. Out of nowhere, right after the allstar break I think Dolan decided to extend Zeke’s contract and then everything fell apart. It was a classic foolish rush move by Dolan and I think it played a part in Zeke’s demise. But everything after that was just really bad and had no way of ever working even without the sexual harrasment. It was an absolutely retarded idea to trade for Randolph and destoryed the remaining bit of Curry’s confidence and was probably the final nail in the coffin for Zeke. Anyway, regardless of all that stuff it was still a completely horrible job by Zeke. I mean he spent all that money on Jefferies, Curry, Big Snacks, and QRich and all those guys ended up being really poor moves. A team with that many bad contracts is not going to work out ever, in any situation.

Matt Harpring out for year
Mike James on trading block
Andre Miller unhappy/Oden out for year
Larry Brown looking for a big man

Walsh better get cracking and take advantage of one of the above to get rid of Jeffries and/or Curry. If trade deadline passes and neither one is gone, that is simply unacceptable.

Ths most realistic scenario, with Oden’s injury, Miller’s unhappiness, and Outlaw out for a long time is:

Travis Outlaw and Andre Miller for Jared Jeffries and Nate Robinson

Trade works salary wise, but needs Nate approval.

Portland gets a decent PF/C in Jeffries to give them another athletic big while they get a decent playmaker in Robinson. At same time, getting rid of “mistake” of Andre Miller. Outlaw out many months anyway.

Coaches want Nate gone, and the swap of Jeffries for Miller gets NYK a 2010 starting PG and a much better use of 2010 salary cap.

Ideally, NYK would love to dump Curry for Miller/Outlaw, but I just don’t see Portland biting on that one…….

after next summer the team will improve

but not by much.

this franchise will stink for a few more years an then hopefully it will reach the finals an then from there u can say this franchise is going somewhere..

You would rather Andre Miller than a young freak athlete in Jerryd Bayless?? @ 2.1 million

Well, Andre Miller is a veteran proven PG that could be a piece alongside James and (fill in the free agents) to start winning now. Bayless has “potential” but hasn’t shown much anyway in Portland. I’d rather be stuck with Miller than Jeffries. A better use of $7 million in the cap.

Also, why would Portland give away a cheap young talent anyway? What for? Miller they WANT to get rid of……..

with the Coach benching Nate and being coy about the reasons his value is never lower.. no way you get Bayless for him.

Why doesnt Chandler get benched for the horrid shot selection and Duhon for sucking so bad?

And your boy TD only get 6 minutes?

theknicksblog@gmail.com

what excuse do knick fans have for the lame half assed effort from Brook lopez in the 2nd half.

seriously. he was invisible. no?

No excuses, bad second half by Lopez. But, it is just one half. Guy has proven he can play in this league and I don’t take one half and say this player is better than that player or so forth.

The faces Lopez makes are funny
He looks and runs like he has to take a sh*t

TD, what a low blow to Bro-Lo … granted Lopez wasn’t effective in the 2nd half but I attributed that more to foul trouble & (believe it or not) D’Ant’s strategy of playing zone. The zone limited Harris’ penetration & that was key to cooling Bro-Lo (and Harris) off.

How is it that when Gallo “disappears” he’s neing “frozen out” by teammates … but one bad half by Lopez is entirely his fault !
Be fair Tommy …

b/t/w Lopez’ season stats vs. Gallo’s below:

Bro-Lo:
18.9 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 49 fg%, 83 ft%, 1.7 apg, 2.3 bpg, 36 mpg

Gallo:
14.1 ppg, 4.8 rpg , 45 fg%, 81 ft$, 1.4 apg, 0.7 bpg, 30 mpg

Of course Gallo shoots nearly 45% in 3pfg% compared to zip for Lopez but Bro-Lo is a true center who should not be shooting 3s. So, “invisable” 2nd half or not today, I’d take the California dude over the Italian 3 pt specialist if I were starting a team.

Gallinari had Rafer Alston or Keyon Dooling guarding him on the perimeter, Toney Douglas did not see the mismatch and took an ill-advised jumpshot. Boink.

It was a bad decision.

Will’s D and shot-selection have been disappointing since the start of the season. But he shows some perseverence under the basket.

We need Bayless.

After this year, after couple of years… WTH???
Who has the patience to wait??? And who said that going max on 1 or 2 superstars will push this franchise forward?

DW should go and twist hands to other 29 GMs for impossible trades and fantasy deals to create competitive roster now, BEFORE that elusive superstar arrives.

the knicks will be good when dolan jr is gone he is the main prob.

A “dominant” center/low post guy should net you more than 1 win in 20 tries. He’s a nice player, but he’s no franchise cornerstone.

Oh please! As if Isiah wouldn’t have taken all the contracts set to expire in 2011 and traded them for Stephen Jackson and Elton Brand, and then he sign Corey Brewer to the full midlevel. Getting rid of expiring contracts or letting them expire is something Donnie does, and never something Isiah did.

Douglas is a rookie! Seriously people, I mean, wtf. PG is the hardest position in the league to learn and then play.

We “need” Bayless? “Need”??? Yea that’s what the Knicks are missing. Let’s get Bayless in here, who can’t get off the bench in Portland, and he’ll right the ship.

Yea. All Donnie has to do is go “twist hands” and make “impossible trades and fantasy deals”. Otherwise what? He should be fired?

Amazing.

By the way, I think comments like this are the reason it was thought that you can’t rebuild in New York. “Who has the patience to wait???”

That’s the kind of thinking that was either thrust on Isiah and Layden or that they brought with them and it’s led to 10 years of misery.

If you know anything, know this: You don’t have a choice but to wait, and if you don’t want to be a Knicks fan because you aren’t willing to wait, then don’t be a Knicks fan, because they’ll never be good if they don’t patiently clean up the mess of the last decade.

lmao

You have to think before you post man

If Bayless was as good as he could be at this point, we would have NO chance at getting him, the reason hes not is because he’s on a team with Brandon Roy and they want a pass first guard in the back court with him.

Portland however has “wants to have their cake and eat it too syndrome ” they wont change because Brandon Roy is their star player but they seem to not want to give up Bayless although him and Roy on the same team wont work.

Bayless was one of the best PGs guards in his draft class he has a WAY higher ceiling than Douglas.

Did someone die? Why is every body apologizing? Signing two free agents isn’t rebuilding. Who says we’re lost this season? Fu@k 2010. Walsh lost last year, one year, this year is just beginning.

Here we are 2.5 games out of the playoffs with 61 games remaining after a terrible start and I see a mass for a burial taking place around here?

Let’s talk trades to improve the playoff development, let’s talk playoff development. Take the white flag and bury the sucker. the Knicks seem to be turning it around. We don’t need a run, because we’re only 2.5 games out of playoff development for the youth.

These posts are one of the main reasons why this franchise has been has been so bad!!!……. You say that you want the team to rebuild. To change the roster. Well you know that the only way for this to occur is to strip the roster down completely and void it of those bad contracts and players.. And then when someone has the guts to do so now your impatient. Now you want Donnie Walsh to make a desperate move so that you can be entertained.
Listen to what Walsh is saying!! He is saying that he wants to be in the running for free agents. He also says that having cap space affords him more opportunities to make trades and deals.
I’m probably saying this out of anger but I’m such a Knicks fan that it would be hard to stop reading about them but I am seriously contemplating not logging on here any longer because of you ignorant guys.

Gallo is playing and looking decent. You know trade talk is taking place. I know Rubio wants to be a Knick. Hill hasn’t played yet, but will; or be part of a big trade.

Douglas looks so good, that Nate’s on the bench. We beat Phoenix and Atlanta without Gallo or Nate. We’ve won 3 of 4 in the last 4 games. Why are we talking about losing to rebuild and not about playoff development for the youth?

our future is bright no mater what happens in free agency next year? are you wearing a skull shunt?

Tommy,you sound more n more like a 12 year old knicks fan when you get yer sarcasm up LOL……..DUCK!

they have almost all been bad.think about it.beside the ewing KNICKS,and the champion era teams,the KNICKS,for the most part ,have always sucked!i know,ive been a fan for 45 years.watching these guys this year,is harder than you all think

are you donnies nephew?

UHHHH…….YA GOT ANY GUM?

I SAW AN ARTICLE THIS MORNING ,in a spanish paper,and in it RUBIO says”NO WAY IM EVER PLAYING FOR NEW YORK” where do you get your info HERI?

i’ve been waiting for 9 years. I still have patience for 9 more.

I think it’s fair to say that most people were optimistic heading into the season. It started out terrible and now we’re talking about a need to lose due to rebuilding.

I’m not judging a long season on the first 15 games. It’s not how you start, but how you finsih. The youth should make it a better finish. The playoffs aren’t out of the picture. Trades and playoff development for the youth can make this a very exciting and interesting season.

If you read such article, who cares where I get my info. Kahn and you are right, Rubio will play in Minnesota.

I once read an article with the title, “the ten worst moves by Dolan.”. Something like that. It can’t be denied, Dolan is the constant in the misery.

The best way to describe Dolan is, “The big shot behind the curtain.” He says nothing while destroying everything. Mad’s “who me?” A few years back the talk was of the NBA forcing him out. Can it get any worst than that for an owner?

Gum? Nope, how bout some hay? You can do like a goat and chew hay.

I’m not saying don’t get Bayless or that he wouldn’t help, but to say we “need” him is a little far fetched.

2nd cousin.

Prior to the draft, Spain’s media mentioned NY as the best possible landing location for Rubio. Prior to the draft Rubio mentioned it would be an honor to be drafted by NY.

Prior to the draft, Rubio’s father said Rubio would play in Europe if Minnesota drafted him.

Rubio was a projected top pick, but did everything he could do to drop, and he fall he did.

Kahn drafted Rubio, but also drafted Flynn because Kahn knew that Rubio would have to be forced, in a nice way to play in Minny. Flynn was insurance to guarantee a point guard.

If Rubio didn’t want to play in Minnesota, Golden State selected next. Do you think Rubio wanted Golden State or NY, which selected after Golden State?

Rubio only decided to stay in Europe when the report surfaced that Kahn had beaten the so called buy out.

Rubio had to play Kahn’s game because Rubio couldn’t say that he would only play for NY. It would make Rubio a target of some players and the league that wouldn’t approve.

to kill such mind frame, the league reacted by hitting Stephon Jackson in the pocket for requesting to be traded and listing the teams. Jackson didn’t understand why it happened to him and not to Kobe. I understood it.

Rubio wants to be a Knick, he will never play in Minnesota. Kahn must trade Rubio and other teams don’t want anything to do with it which hurts the value of return. Kahn played innocent, but he knew the possibilities and must now deal with the facts.

When comparing field goal percentages, keep in mind that Gallo’s impressive 45% is based on a player who does not play near the the basket.

What would Lopez’ % look like if he stepped away from the basket?

Jesus man, can you keep your thoughts in 1 thread? It’s just neater and doesn’t look as OCD..

No shots.

Rubio is a huge risk. He looks slow and can’t shoot from the outside, that is a bad combination. Without a strong team defense to keep him in the open court off turnovers he could be a liability in the half court offense. He seems a little soft and fragile also it would be interesting to see how he fares against NBA level defense/competition.

High risk and high reward are the types of risks this team needs to make. Brandon Jennings fit that mold.

Yes he’s a rookie, but when rookies make mistakes they GO TO THE BENCH. It’s not rocket science.

Douglas didn’t play well against the Nets, it is what it is.

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