Dolan Too Involved with Front Office?

I can understand not wanting to get a ball dominating PG (Jennings) but there were other team oriented type PG available as well (Lawson, Holliday).

Hill might turn it out to be a good player but it seems like the reason he looks so lost out there, its that they are trying to make him play a style he’s not accustomed to (jump shooting big man). They really should let Hill play his type of game & then let him develop an outside game.

Dolan. What an absolute tool. He is a poster boy for the way corporate america does business. Handshakes and back slapping for the guys on the inside, protect them at all costs, fat salaries and bonuses for incompetence…it really is ‘corrupt’ although probably not in the law-breaking sense. Just bad business but like so many franchises they have legions of fans consistently willing to pony up thousands of dollars each year to watch their incompetence on display. What is Thomas if not the greatest and saddest joke foisted upon Knick fans…and what is worse..he was rewarded with a scouting job and and a stool next to Dolan like some pet. What a joke.

Still, corporate meddling aside, the draft and player personnel is for Walsh, he owns it, he is responsible and the buck stops with him..I can see where a scouting staff comprised of Thomas acolytes would be pretty problematic, after all they had SOOOOO MUCH SUCCESS BUILDING A WINNING TRADITION DURING THEIR TENURE!

That said, there are no excuses at this level, certainly after all the hardship your average Knick fan has endured in the last decade…”do or do not, there is no try.”

Brandon Jennings was may first pick if we did not get Curry but I’m not going to blame the scouts for missing this kid. His numbers were not good overseas. Most teams would of passed on him and most teams did. The Bucks really did not have to gamble. The scouts that Zeke put into Front Office we would think that they should have gone with Zeke. Then you look back at what they have done. My favorite Draft picks are David Lee, Trevor Ariza, and Nate Robinson. All of these picks came late in the first round. Thats not a bad job. It’s not there fault that Robinson has not matured yet. Wait and see how good this kid id going to be when he grows up and he is playing for another team. Believe me one day it is going to click and he will be a man. Too bad for us that another team will benefit from the mature Nate and we get the young and dumb Nate. Back to the Front Office, Now the fools responsible for the trades of Eddy Curry and Marbury are the problem.

I’m trying to find the article I read when they first hired Donnie Walsh. I specifically remember it saying that all Basketball operations go thru Walsh and that Dolan would not interfere. I knew it had to be a bunch of crock. That is unfair to Walsh to have to keep Isiah Thomas’ scouts. Thats like telling a new head coach your hired but you have to keep the assistants from the past regime. I been saying it all along, Dolan is the one that needs to go. He is a terrible owner.

so Walsh is blaming his inability to clean the scouting house for not drafting BJ3? I don’t get that because my interpretation of the article is that Isaiah’s hires were the ones pushing for Jennings. Maybe Donnie & Dolan should bring IT in every spring as a temp to run the draft for that single night. I have no doubt that, under the same circumstances, he would have taken BJ3 at 8.

And the stuff about not wanting a”balldominating” guard is absurd. Do Donnie & D’ant not think they can mold a19-20 year old into the type of player they need? If they can’t do that, Dolan needs to clean them from the house

If this isn’t his type of game, he should’ve never been picked. I didn’t watch him at Arizona, but if that’s true… Not good.

OK…..so you screwed up 2 drafts and had to get them right because we do not have a #1 pick this year. You got them wrong!!!!!!!

Look at this team with Lopez in the middle and Jennings at point. Tell me with players like Duhon as a backup PG and DLee even Harrington, Chandler and whomever else that this team would not be much, much better…..please.

Our coach is a great guy but his system is flawed and Walsh is too. Both men never won anything really and this is just a big experiment to prove that the system works. The only reason they want to prove the system works is to sell it to the European community.

With Stern it’s not about the NBA it’s about the new World Basketball Association. Selling a product to the world and who cares about the USA, that’s Stern.

Could you imagine if we did not get the pick from LA, they gave us Douglas. The Lakers chipped in to help the Knicks and gave us a player who is going to be very good. Tell me they could not use him on their team….please. The other GM’s who took Crawford, James and others off our roster to free up cap space for us. Everybody is doing their best to make the Knicks a winning ball team except the Knicks themselves.

And this stuff about Hill not being “right” for the system and too ray is absurd. Do dDonnie & D’ant not think they can mold a 21(?) year old into the type of player they need? If they cant do that, Donal needs to clean them from the house.

This is incredibly dismaying. Shame on Walsh. It was his team, his call, and his pick. What else was he doing that he couldn’t set aside the necessary time to do his own evaluation? Same old garbage.

Dolan is an idiot, that much is for sure. But I do think he’s been shamed into basically letting Walsh run the operation. However, there are definitely some things that have Dolan’s signature on them.

Dolan is a stubborn fool when it comes to money. Here’s an example – rather than settling with Anucha Browne Sanders, he decided to fight it – and ended up paying much more and embarassing himself and the organization. Also, when D’antoni decided not to put Marbury in the rotation, and then Marbury didn’t want to go back in, it made sense for the Knicks to buy Marbury out, just for the chemistry of the team, and so they could have another roster spot. But Dolan won’t do it, because he’s paying Marbury. He already made a bad decision getting a guy, and really, he’s lost the money no matter what. But he was still stubborn, to the point of hurting the team.

He makes bad financial decisions, then won’t cut his losses. That’s why he won’t let Walsh hire a new GM, because he’s still paying Isiah, and he wouldn’t just fire Isiah, because he wanted Isiah to do something to earn his money, even if that was no help to the organization.

Still, under the circumstances, I think Walsh is doing a pretty good job. I’m not sure we can blame Dolan for not picking Jennings. And I think it’s likely that Isiah’s scouts are actually good – talent evaluation is pretty much his only strong point.

***too raw

I dont like Walsh deflecting criticism. The buck should stop at his desk and he should take full responsibility fo rthe pick.. NOT fluff it off on the scouts not jumping up and down on his desk for Jennings..

Also this quote

It’s kind of like what I’m hearing with the players: They don’t think they’re going to be here, so they don’t want to play hard,” Walsh told SI.com.

I dont like this.. at all.. That goes straight to the coach and teh GM taking down this season

“Everybody is doing their best to make the Knicks a winning ball team except the Knicks themselves.”

Great line!

this may be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read.

Gallo is playing great. Lopez is not this year. Honestly either one would have been a fine draft pick.

LA gave us Douglas? They made a decision. Not to help the knicks, but because they felt they didnt need the pick.

“Everybody is doing their best to make the Knicks a winning ball team except the Knicks themselves.”

you are insane.

Exactly. Don’t as front office administrators dismantle a team and collect only one year contracts in the hope of landing one to two max contracts guys after the season and then tell the team that they shouldn’t feel disrespected.

The problem of the last decade remains: Dolan. Until he’s out of the picture completely, this team has a major handicap.

Walsh just put himself on notice with the fans.

OK, so Lopez puts up stats, but the Nets have won one freaking game this year. Gallo has shown flashes of being a pretty good player. Kobe thinks so too. So does LeBron.

I saw enough of Marbury in Jennings that I felt scared to take him too. I kind of recognized that at the time, and maybe Walsh should have. And yes, he’s played very well so far and dropped 55, but since teams got some film of him, he’s cooled down. He hasn’t won anything. NBA history is full of flashy scoring point guards that never win anything. So I think we need to wait a year or two to see if he turns out to be Chris Paul or Marbury. Hill was a guy projected to go in the top 5 that dropped to them. He’s an interior player and they are deficient in that area.

If we had Lopez, you’d probably be complaining that he can’t play defense. And I remember the draft in which they took Gallo – most people were clamoring for Jerryd Bayless or Eric Gordon – I remember people thinking Lopez was going to be a bust because he was too slow and unathletic. Yes, we probably could have made better picks but we could have made worse ones as well. The Gallo and Hill picks are nowhere near the crappiness of the Fredric Weis pick.

And please, can you give Walsh a little credit for getting that 27th pick from the Lakers and picking Douglas with it? He capitalized on the Lakers wanting to save 3 million and snagged a valuable player.

Interesting story.

Dolan – another culprit in the 2009 draft fiasco? Well the jury’s still out and Jordan Hill will be a good NBA player IMO but the Knicks should have picked a point guard. I blame it on Donnie Walsh (YES) and his scouts, despite the fact that this organization is still dysfunctional (to a certain extent).

But honestly, the Grizzlies, the Timberwolves, the Warriors and the Raptors passed on Jennings as well. His “freshman year” in Roma was a disaster. But there’s one thing nobody talks about, I think the fact that Jennings spent a year in Italy could have been a huge catalyst for Gallinari and Jennings. Right now, Gallo and Hill look like oil and water, I think he would have had a tighter relationship with Jennings.

The players get paid. Millions of dollars. They have to remain professional and deserve the ridiculous amount of money they are getting. They should have signed another contract if they didn’t want to be free agents in 2010!

The fact that some players feel disrespected is an ABERRATION. It is RIDICULOUS.

DW has the right to address this situation.

I think IT’s talent evaluation skills are overrated.

2006 draft – Renaldo Balkman 1 spot ahead of Rajon Rondo.

2005 draft – Channing Frye instead of Andrew Bynum (and Danny Granger)

David Lee, Nate Robinson and Trevor Ariza were GREAT picks but IT made his share of bad decisions. Wilson Chandler was a pretty good selection as well but honestly, I’d rather have Rudy Fernandez (1 spot behind Will) or Aaron Brooks (3 spots behind Will).

Who cares if 9 other GMs passed on Jennings? Ours did. That’s the problem. Our GMs have been passing over stars for years. Ron Artest, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Andrew Bynum, Amare Stoudemire, Danny Granger, Rajon Rondo, I can go on and on.

At least the other 9 GMs who passed on Jennings sometimes got it right.

As for the talk that Brook Lopez is having a bad year, that’s ridiculous.. I guess it’s Lopez’s fault that Devin Harris missed a month, CDR got Swine flu, and he has crap talent around him. I guess Al Jefferson sucks too then right? Cuz the T Wolves are awful.

Centers that can put up 19 pts, 9 rebs, and 2 blocks every night don’t grow on trees. Center and PG are the 2 hardest positions in the NBA to fill. That’s a fact. We could’ve had a star Center, last year and a star PG this year.

Imagine how much more attractive this team would look to a free agent in 2010 with 2 stars already in place, playin on rookie contracts. I guess O.J. Mayo, Monta Ellis, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison, Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, and Chris Kaman all suck too right?

Because all those players were on lottery teams last year.

If Brook Lopez sucks then Dwyane Wade must REALLY suck because 2 yrs ago the Heat ended up with the 2nd pick in the draft, the year they drafted Michael Beasley. See how much sense that argument makes?

Nobody wins by themselves. Even Kobe Bryant was on a lottery team the year they got Andrew Bynum.

EQ is right, Jordan Hill was a high-energy player at Arizona, he was not a jumpshooter.

I think Gallinari + Jennings > Lopez + Jennings.

I’m not saying that Gallinari’s a better player than Lopez right now but Gallo and BJ would be a more dynamic/special duo.

And for all this talk about Jennings being “ball dominant”, then someone please answer me this. What’s Chris Paul? What’s Steve Nash? What’s Brandon Roy? What’s LeBron James? What’s Deron Williams? What’s Rajon Rondo? What’s Joe Johnson?

All these players need the ball in their hands to be effective. Hell even Chris Duhon needs the ball to be effective.

And the only reason Jennings has cooled off lately is because teams have decided to focus on him, and let Charlie Bell, Luke Ridnour, Ersan Ilyasova beat them. Good luck trying to win with those guys.

The Bucks need him to score because nobody else on the team can. They need him to “dominate the ball” because they traded Ramon Sessions and Richard Jefferson, and have a joke of a team.

Last night Brandon Jennings snapped out of his slump with 22 pts, 2 rebs, 6 asts, 2 stls, and 2 blocked shots!! He shot 8-14 from the field, and 4-7 from downtown.

And surprise surprise. The Bucks won.

That only goes to show you how good he is. The team goes as he goes. If he struggles the team loses. If he plays well, they win. He’s a difference maker, and last time I checked the Bucks have a better record than the Knicks, and have way less talent on their roster.

couldn’t have said it better myself.good god is this guy a f*cking moron.seriously, are he and Isiah secretly gay or something? not that there’s anything wrong with that, but jesus tryst.

I disagree. I think it’s easier to find a sweet shooting SF in the league than a Center who can block shots and give you 20 and 10 on any night.

What I’m saying is, there were many question marks surrounding Jennings which is why many teams passed on him (including the Knicks obviously). I’m not saying that the fact that other teams passed on him justifies Walsh’s decision, but there were several legitimate reasons why Walsh didn’t draft him.

Jordan Hill was supposed to be a safe pick. BJ could have been Dajuan Wagner meets Sebastian Telfair, he was a RISKY pick.

Italian League stats : 5.5 ppg, 37.7 fg%, 2.3 apg, 1.5 tpg. His numbers were awful. Plus the ridiculous pre-draft interviews “Ricky Rubio is all hype” etcetera.

I think the Knicks should have drafted Jennings, but he was a huge question mark before the draft.

What question marks? Because he said Rubio was overrated? You’re gonna pass on him because of that?

Allen Iverson and Caron Butler both did time in jail before college. Amare Stoudemire and LeBron James’ moms were drug addicts, and in and out of jail while their sons were in high school. THOSE are huge question marks.

Tyreke Evans was the driver in a drive by shooting. That’s a HUGE question mark, and Donnie Walsh went on record saying he had him rated as high as 2 on his draft board behing Blake Griffin.

Where in this article does it say that Donnie Walsh didn’t draft him because Jennings had huge question marks? He’s basically admitting he didn’t do his homework.

Nothing else.

A sweet-shooting (isn’t he better than just a “SWEET-shooting SF” by the way?) 6’10 player with a great basketball IQ and above-average ball-handling skills.

It’s a rare commodity, very few players fit that description. Maybe Turkoglu, but Gallinari’s a much better shooter and a better defender. Maybe Rashard Lewis – who’s a two-time All-Star and the 2nd best player on a championship-caliber team. Maybe Detlef Schrempf, who was a 3-time All-Star.

Gallo’s a unique player who’ll create many mismatches. Lopez is a great talent as well (and a better player right now) but he’s a traditional center.

I was talking about Jennings anyways, I think his style would be a better fit with Gallo than Lopez.

Are you KIDDING ME??

I didn’t say that I’d pass on him because of his comments regarding Rubio! But considering the fact that his year in Italy was a DISASTER, he could have kept his mouth shut! The guy was already a HUGE question mark from a pure basketball standpoint (just look at his Italianleague stats!), the fact that his comments were ridiculously stupid was just the icing on the cake!

The Tyreke Evans story was just gossip, you can choose your friends but you can’t choose your family. And he had a GREAT freshman year in college.

Gallinari can’t keep a SF in front of him. He’s too slow. That’s a fact. So I don’t know wher this great defender stuff is coming from. The Knicks put him on Rafer Alston on Sunday because he can’t shoot.

They put him on Andre Miller the other night, because Miller is slow and can’t shoot. Don’t you see why they’re doing that? Gallo’s not a good defender. I think his future is at 4, because he’s too slow to cover a SF.

Melo kept torching him on the leak out a few weeks ago when he dropped 50 on the Knicks. He got a lot of those points by simply outrunning him.

Say what you will about Brook Lopez but he’s not getting beat by his man every night, nor is he the last man up court all the time the way Gallo is.

Gallo beat by his man everynight? That’s another MYTH. Carmelo Anthony torched him but Melo is Melo, a TOP 5 player in the NBA. Gallo’s not a great defensive player but he’s not a liabilty like you want to believe :

Channing Frye scored 5 points against him (2-6 FG).

Ryan Anderson scored 11 points against him (4-11 FG).

Marvin Williams scored 4 points against him (2-7 FG).

By the way David Lee scored 24 points and went 12-18 against Brook Lopez the other night. I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I hope Donnie isn’t trying to pass the buck as this article is making it seem. He made the picks. Dolan is a bag o’ douche, but DW is to blame. End of story.

That said, people need to stop the pissing and moaning about the draft. Hindsight is always 20/20. Jennings draft stock was slipping in the weeks prior to the draft and was not overly impressive in workouts in comparison to the other PG prospects. Whether you claim you were all about Jennings or not the fact remains he was a big risk (as are most draft picks.) No high-profile prospect has taken the path Jennings took, nobody labeled him as a sure thing. That’s why 8 other teams passed on him.

It’s not like the Bucks are draft geniuses. Joe Alexander over Lopez, Augustin, Randolph, Speights. Yi over Noah, Stuckey, Thorton, Hawes. Bogut over Paul, Williams, Granger. They struck gold this time and good for them, but there are always going to be good players who get picked later. We could do the “what if” game all we want it’s not going to make a difference.

In short, there are much more egregious things to get on Donnie’s case about than something as arbitrary as draft picks.

First of all David Lee scored alot of those points while Lopez was in foul trouble. Lopez completely dominated the game in the first half before he got in foul trouble.

Then the Nets struggled with the zone because none of their guys could hit a shot, so they crowded Lopez and let the others beat them, and they couldn’t.

Lopez does what a Center is supposed to do. Block and alter shots. The fact that he can do that plus give you 20 and 10 is what makes him so good.

You guys wanna talk about David Lee’s “numbers” but what about the numbers he gives up on the other end? How many times did CDR waltz into the paint vs. the Knicks on Sunday because Lee was there with his turnstile defense?

Channing Frye isn’t a SF. And I remember him blowing right by Gallo for a baseline dunk on the very first posession of that game.

Why do you think D’Antoni put him on Ryan Anderson? Because he couldn’t keep Pietrus and Lewis in front of him! Ryan Anderson and Danilo Gallinari are very similar players. That’s wny Gallo may have been on him. Neither one can blow past a smaller defender or keep a smaller defender in front of them.

Your right in that the draft is a crap shoot. However, when the team is in desperate need of a PG, and you end up drafting another forward because no one did their homework on a talented PG, that’s a problem.

It really isn’t about Jennings necessarily, there were other PG available like Holliday or Lawson. Forget any mock drafts that said 8 was too high, GM’s are suppose to be the experts, not the Mel Kipers, or in this case the Jay Bilas of the world.

BTW, I actually liked Joe Alexander coming out of college. he had a great post up game in College and could block shots. I still think in the right situation he can still be a good player.

You do know that Wade missed nearly the entire year 2 years ago, when he got hurt and then they held him out for almost the whole season to lose on purpose trying to get a good pick

No but the Bucks got it right when they drafted Michael Redd in the 2nd round.

So 9 other teams passed on Jennings. Are we now saying that Donnie Walsh is in the same company as Chris Wallace (Memphis GM) and David Kahn (Minnesota GM/genius who drafted Rubio and Flynn back to back) and Don Nelson (the genius who drafted Stephen Curry when they already had Monta Ellis who’s very similar)?

The Clippers passed on Jennings because they got Blake Griffin who’s a better player and they already had a PG. Chris Wallace and the Grizzlies passed on him and took Hasheem Thabeet. LMAO. Nuff said.

Sam Presti and OKC passed on him because they had Russell Westbrook who’s already a pretty good PG.

The Kings passed on him and took Tyreke Evans, and that turned out to be a pretty good move, cuz he’s a good player.

We all know what David Kahn and Don Nelson did. So what’s the Knicks’ excuse?

I can’t believe you guys are still sitting around making excuses for Donnie Walsh when he’s already pretty much admitted that he blew it. He’s already throwing his scouts under the bus saying that they should’ve been in his office every day. Is that not enough proof that he didn’t know enough about him? Does he have to go and Tweet about it to make it any clearer?

And if he didn’t know enough about Jennings, what stopped him from going to Italy to see him himself? If not in games, then in practice, where he was dominating his teammates in April?

The Bucks did that and walked away with the steal of the draft.

Jennings may be good, but it seems like he is a volume shooting, shoot first, low efficiency PG. When MD came here the first thing he said was we need to change our direction and get a true pass first PG, because that is the backbone of the system.

Yea, jennings looks good, but he is in the mold of Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Alston, etc… (maybe with a better 3 ball), and i thought we all understood that we don’t want that type of PG. There were other choices behind him that were better for our team in my opinion, but 11 was too high to take someone like Maynor, so we took a big-man for his long term potential.

Jennings would have been a quick fix. Another ball dominating guard, just what we need, right? I don’t care how flashy he looks in milwaukee, he’s not what we wanted.

Tommy, whoever told you they didn’t want a “ball dominating” guard did not know squat about Jennings. Jennings is a pure PG who could play any style, including D’Antoni’s. And to me, all Old Man Walsh is doing is trying to deflect the heat he is getting for his terrible pick of J. Hill at 8.

J. Hill at 28, J.Hill at 18 (maybe), but no way J. Hill at 8.

Most teams didn’t pass on Jennings. Only 9 did. And his numbers in Europe were not great, but averaging 10 points in Euro league is not same as 10 points in the nba. I don’t think his numbers are a good barometer. Obviously the competition he faced in practice and games over there helped him tremendously. To say there was no intel on him is foolish. If high school players were allowed to jump into the draft the kid would have probably went top 5 out of high school. Not hindsight, the truth.

The Clippers knew to draft Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

The Grizzlies knew to draft Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo.

The Thunder knew to draft Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant.

The Kings knew to draft Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans, and Kevin Martin.

The T Wolves knew to draft Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love.

The Warriors knew to draft Monta Ellis in the second round.

When was the last time the Knicks got a star/borderline star in the draft? I don’t buy this whole “9 other GMs passed on him” argument. Those other teams occasionally get it right and hit a homerun in the draft. With the Knicks, it’s business as usual.

OMG!!! Are you guys kidding me!?! Am I in the twilight zone?? So now Donnie BLowing it on Jennings & Lopez is Isiah fault? Jennings was like Steph??? Do you guys get a Klan card when you signed on to the blog? “THESE DAMN INNER CITY BLACK GUYS SCREWED UP THE KNICKS!” WOW I am ashamed at times to see the venom on here! Are you going to really sit here and say poor donnie Dolen interferes to much with him running the team and then not say the same thing about when Isiah was the GM?? Dolen would not let Isiah blow the knicks up like he had to that was out of the question!! Dolen wanted to win now even tho he stuck with LAYDEN who was the man who destroyed the knicks and left Isiah 40 mill over the cap and with a team that sucked like no other!!

So Layden gets a pass he was a good guy right? Donnie get to pass the blame on screwing up the draft and setting the knicks back 2 years but that’s ok right? But that damn black Isiah we can lynch that boy!! wow!!

Anybody who can argue that Lopez & Jennings or even Gordon & Jennings would be better to the over all team development then Gallo & Hill is out of there minds!! But noooo we don’t want a inner city flash black kid with a world of talent because he will be just like steph!! Oh well his numbers in europe sucked (leaving out he could not get any run because the coach had a thing against him and when he was fired and the new guy was put in to place he wanted to go with a vet line up because he was trying to win sound like anybody else u know?)

You hatters need to grow up and anyone who keeps throwing Steph as a Isiah screw up please show me where u where up in arms when he pulled that off!! Please tell me who the PG was before Steph? And then please tell me how much that poor excuse of PG was making and who signed him!!!

In closing if your going to make the corn ball excuse that Dolen is meddling and that the blown drafts where Isiah fault (his scouts wanted Jennings) sounds like denial and the way you guys go over the top to discredit and disrespect Isiah & Jennings really comes off ugly and hateful and I don’t mean it in a hip hop type of hater hate I mean it in a I hate those people kind of way!! Isiah has moved on and so should you hateful guys and no need to thank him for pulling High end talent out of low first round picks like Lee & Nate he was just trying to do his job as best he could while being micro managed!!

FYI TD is a good little player but not great and Nate with all his flaws is an all world talent!! So who was the better low first round pick of sheer talent Nate or TD?

Is Jennings a volume shooter because of the Buck players around him? Because I don’t think he would be shooting as much, playing with Lee, Gallo, AL, Hughes and Will.

Of course, if Jennings was drafted by Knicks, he would only be playing about 5-10 minutes a night (because of D’antoni’s love affair with Duhon) and we would probably be complaining about not getting Holliday, Lawson or probably in Jordan Hill.

@ Jeff – You’re speculating.

If Jennings is a high volume shooting PG, then what’s Tyreke Evans? The Knicks said he was their guy on draft night. Everything you said about Jennings could be said about Evans.

And what’s Stephen Curry? Didn’t Brandon Jennings light him and Monta Ellis for 55 points? Wasn’t he another of the Knicks’ targets?

If you actually SAW Jennings play this season, you could see WHY he shoots so much. It’s the only way his team has a chance of winning. The game he scored 55 points is a prime example. I think he was scoreless in the first quarter and the team was trailing. The team was trailing at halftime and when he went off in the third and fourth quarter that’s what got them back into the game and maintained the lead for them.

All the best PGs in the league are capable of scoring outburst like that. Personally, I’d rather have a PG like Jennings who’s a threat to score AND can pass the ball. Istead of these “pass first PGs” who only pass because they can’t shoot, and they’re a liability on offense.

Chris Duhon’s a “pass first PG.”

Steve Nash and Chris Paul are ball dominant PGs who can dominate the game with their scoring or their passing on any given night. That’s what great PGs do. The fact that Jennings has been able to carry such a horrible team, like the Milwaukee Bucks, and lead them to a better record than the Knicks, with a roster full of journeymen types, only proves how good he is, and how bad Donnie blew it.

Imagine if he could pass the ball to Gallo, Harrington, and Lee instead of Warrick, Bell, and Ilyasova. Imagine if he played for a coach that let him run, instead of carrying the offense on his back in a halfcourt set like Skiles has him doing?

TYPEO……was meaning to say “Anybody who can argue that Lopez & Jennings or even Gordon & Jennings would NOT be better to the over all team development then Gallo & Hill is out of there minds!!

EQ – You hit the nail on the head my man. Jennings shoots alot because he HAS TO. If he didn’t go off for 55 against Golden State they would’ve lost that game.

Nobody else stepped up. The 19 yr old rookie did. In his 7th game in the NBA. Sounds like a star to me.

Be careful blackwood. Saying Gallo wasn’t a good pick is blasphemy around here.

Line of the Year, I don’t care

I understand what you’re saying but drafting in the latter half of the lottery is always dicey. At what point do you start drafting for need instead of talent? I suppose it depends on the draft.

Talent becomes more expensive the bigger the player is. The fact that we are desperately trying to trade the only 2 bigs we have contracted past 2010 made Hill a need. Drafting bigs is almost always high risk/high reward. Having a capable 4/5 on a rookie contract is incredibly valuable. We’ll have to wait and see how Hill develops.

But I think the major factor in not drafting a PG was that our top 4 prospects, all of which were PG’s, were taken before our pick. Kahn was halfway to hording 4 of them. DW probably figured draft a big now, trade for a PG later in that guard-heavy draft class. IMO, Where Walsh failed was not in drafting Hill at 8, but rather not securing Rubio, Lawson, Calathes, Beaubois afterwards.

I don’t want Walsh making any excuses. If the pick turns out well, it’s all thanks to him. But if he misses, man up. And promise not to make the same mistake in the future (like how can you not know enough about a lottery pick? that still boggles my mind).

personally i would love gallo & jennings. this is my preffered duo. and in hindsight i would draft ersan ilyasova with the last 1st rounder. i love how hindsight is 20/20.

pg jennings
sg hughes
sf gallo
pf harrington
c lee
bench duhon, chandler, ersan, curry

but honestly at this point i’d just like to see hill get some playing time. if they do manage to trade jeffries or curry and he still doesn’t get on the court, i’m going to be really disappointed.

Thanks for the heads up Guy lol…..Truth is Gallo was a good pick but not the good pick for us!! People need to stop being so brainwashed! I mean they try to destroy everything about Jennings but never critical about Gallo short comings. One person even said Lopez is having a bad year!! WTF lol you have to wonder what he is basing that on lol second year guy who is already a 20-10 guy but he sucks this year lol!! a legit shot blocker at that but yea he is trash lol.

There not sure if Hill would be good but I keep asking show me another one of his fellow LOTTERY PICKS that cant get off the bench and I am yet to get an answer!!

You’re missing the point entirely.

No one is making excuses for Walsh, we’d all love to have Jennings on this team. The point is that Jennings was a risky pick, he just happened to pay off.

Jennings wasn’t dominating anybody in workouts. All his reviews were very mixed. He had a well known reputation for arrogance and shoot-first play going back to his high school days, even his ardent supporters acknowledged this. He was a prospect who was slipping fast due to the fact that he couldn’t get playing time on an injured Euro team. Jennings was humbled in Europe and matured because of it, Jennings is the first to admit this. He lost the hot head and kept the talent, but never had a chance to display it in Europe.

There are plenty of things to get on Donnie’s case about, lack of clairvoyance is not one of them.

I think that it’s all a crap shoot. Portland gets alot of flack for drafting Bowie over Jordan, but @ the time Bowie was a blue chip draft prospect and they already had a high flying dynamic young 2 guard named Drexler. I think a true blunder is what Detroit did with Darko over Melo, now that was just stupid! I think that even though the Knicks needed a point guard badly I think they definately wanted to get guaranteed production out of the pick @ 8 which I think Jordan Hill will eventually be. Also I think you get yourself in trouble when you say that a guy is not a good draft guy if the guy behind him gets a better pick. You have to judge each team’s draft from the production THEIR guy gives to his team. If Jordan Hill turns out to be a 14 and 8 guy for us over the next 7-10 years and Jennings is the next Paul I think it would be unfair to say Walsh is stupid for picking Hill, that’s how the draft is, it would mean we got a very good player ,not a superstar, but a good player which is what youe expect to get out of the top 5.

Haha you guys are ridiculous some times. What are Lopez and Gordon doing to help their teams win right now??? Lopez is a traditional flatfooted center in a league that is changing to favor more versatile athletic big men. That is why he got dominated by DLEE, and someone was trying to say it was because of foul trouble, which makes it sound like its not Lopez’s fault hes fouling people. He was simply too slow to guard Lee, and Hughes was also taking the ball right at him. What is Gordon doing? So far all I see is an undersized shooting guard who can get his own stats on a bad team. Jennings isn’t a volume shooter????? The guy has been taking close to over 20 shots a game it seems like and he rarely seems to make more than 7 since that 55 point outburst. You guys should learn to respect Gallinari as a great prospect who is at least on equal footing as Gordon and Lopez. Yeah the Hill pick looks pretty bad right now but give the guy a chance, he is extremely raw and could turn into a good player. And anyone who asks for Zeke’s drafting skills simply loses all credibility the second they do that. We could have had rondo instead of Balkman and I don’t hear any of you Zeke lovers talking about that. Channing Frye was also a great pick from such a genius. JUst lookn at the facts once in a while.

I meant when your picking outside of the top 5.

i cant get on Donnie for passing on BJ because I wasnt very hot on him .. I ranked him behind Holiday whom I would have taken with the 8 pick — given who was available at the time..

But my citicism of Donnie is about him comments surrounding what now can be called a blown pick.

1. I didnt have a good enough feel for Jennings game — not encouraging that the GM in a year that he HAS TO get the draft right didnt have a lock down feel for the top 15 – 20 players coming out.\\

2. Blaming the scouts for not jumping on his desk — this is deflecting criticism and doesnt show me much. Donnie should stand up.. say the bucks stops with him and he wanted Jordan Hill who he thinks will be the better player long term for these reasons..

Reshashing this dfraft is just useful for evaluating Donnie at this point.. Not for crying over spilt milk.

Oh trust me Jho….I rather deal with the fact of what we have now and we all know we could of did better drafting I just wanted to make clear that donnie has zero right to deflect his responsibility!
I would love to see Hill get run in fact I think the young guys should get at least 10 mins a game as a unit so they can get a feel for playing together and we can see what they look like together.

But I have a feeling that Hill will not make it past the trade deadline!
Donnie knows he screwed up and he is trying to hide the screw up on the bench lol so he is going to stash him and deal him for a first Rd do over pick next year lol.

ersan ilyasova was 2nd round pick from the 2005 nba draft

Big,
I agree with you about the not evaluating Jennings properly part but DW did come out and say that He thought that Hill was the best player left in the draft @8. Somebody brought up the Stoudamire in Toronto in ’96 being quicker out of the gate than both Kobe and Garnett. I think it’s a good point, not saying Jordan is the next KB24 or Garnett but I think the point was that sometimes players develop faster than others. I think the bigger point is Hill’s ceiling, what is it gonna be and when I look at his skill set I don’t see a bust. I see a good not great PF a 12-15 pt. 8-10 reb. player which is a good pick!

Clippers knew to draft Michael Olawakandi and Darius Miles

Grizzlies knew to draft Drew Gooden and Stromile Swift

T’wolves knew to draft Brandon Roy then him for Randy Foye

Haha I could go on. This sword swings both ways, my friend.

You know what Circle Limit? I can live with Donnie Walsh passing on Jennings if he would’ve gone out to Italy and scouted him himself. If he’da gone over there and saw him in practice for a week the way Draft Express did, and caught him in a couple of games, and then went and talked to his coaches and and asked them why he wasn’t playing, the way Chad Ford did, then I could live with that.

Here’s an excerpt from a column Ford did on Jennings before the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=brandonjennings-090609

Several veteran NBA scouts, who have been scouting both college ball and the international game for years, rolled their eyes at the criticism Jennings was getting.

One scout, who claimed to have watched Jennings in person during “at least a dozen games” and “tons of practices” (the most of any person I spoke with), was particularly adamant. He felt strongly that Jennings was one of the two or three best prospects in the draft.

“I ask two questions about every prospect. First, do they have the talent to play in the NBA? Second, have they gotten better? I think Jennings gets two huge check marks on both accounts.

“First, Jennings is a crazy athlete. He’s as quick as anyone in the draft. No one is going to be able to stay in front of him. He explodes around the basket and he’s a clever passer when he wants to be. We saw all of that in high school and if you watched him enough in Europe, you saw it there too. Yeah, he needs to get stronger and work on some stuff. But the raw talent is totally there.”

OK, that’s talent. Now here’s the thing. What did he need to work on?

“Defense. He’s become a much better and more committed defender this year. Everyone who has watched him play would acknowledge that.

“Basketball IQ. The European game is a thinking game. He’s had to learn all sorts of things that most college kids aren’t confronted with. There’s no way you can argue his IQ hasn’t increased.

“Understanding the team concept. That’s what Europe is all about and Jennings has made great strides there. He’s not perfect, but he’s much better than when he came.

“Shooting. You can’t just look at his shooting numbers for the year. His shot is getting better. I don’t think it’s broken and he’s been taking a lot of shots.

“Maturity. Many four-year college players come overseas and can’t handle the dramatic change in lifestyle. They are home before Christmas. This kid stuck it out. He left his friends and his life behind. Things didn’t go his way with the team he chose. He wasn’t pampered. He felt disrespected. He didn’t complain. He showed up every day and worked his tail off. He kept getting better. What else do you want?

“In every area he’s gotten better. You can’t say the same thing about Jrue Holiday or Jonny Flynn or whoever you want to put up there. This kid’s learning curve has been dramatic. The numbers are just a part of the story.”

That opinion was more typically shared by scouts who had seen Jennings a lot, less so by GMs who may have seen him play only once or twice.

“I’m not sure how you take a kid without a real body of work that high,” one NBA GM in Treviso said. “I know this is a weak draft, but are we really taking kids who have struggled to produce in college or Europe in the lottery? I’m all for upside, but it’s ridiculous. If Jennings can’t get on the floor in Italy, how does he help my team in the next couple of years? How do you take him over some really talented college kids who have proven they can play? Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Steph Curry. Those guys are talented too and they have track records.”

***

As the opinions continued to pour in over the weekend — some pro, some con — I caught a break Sunday night when word came to me that Jennings’ development coach for the past year, Nenad Trajkovic, was in the gym scouting prospects.

Trajkovic is sort of a legend in Europe when it comes to developing young players. He spent years in Serbia preparing guys all the way back to the Vlade Divac years. He’s been hired by teams around the world to work with some of the top young talent in the world. He was hired by Jennings’ team midseason as a lead assistant and spent every day with Jennings working on his game.

Jennings would practice up to four hours a day, sometimes longer with Trajkovic. A few hours were spent each day learning the offensive and defensive schemes. The rest was focused on fundamental development — ballhandling, shooting, basketball philosophy.

No one, I would submit, knows Jennings better.

“For sure, Brandon matured as a person and a player this year,” Trajkovic said. “From the beginning I was concerned when I saw tape of him in the U.S. and watched him in Italy. He was a special athlete. But he didn’t know how to play the game. He liked to play one-on-one or one-on-five, not five-on-five. He dribbled too much. He took bad shots. He made incorrect reads.

“The coach didn’t trust him. This team was a veteran team. Winning was important and Brandon didn’t know how to help his team win. We worked every day on his decision-making. We worked on the pick-and-roll. We taught him defense. The plan was to bring him along slowly and then, by the middle [of the season] he could be more trusted.”

Trajkovic said that Jennings was a hard worker. He said Jennings was a quick study and that the improvement he made in the first few months was dramatic, albeit mostly in practice. However, disaster struck for Jennings when his head coach was fired and replaced with a veteran coach who felt a lot of pressure to win immediately.

“The coach didn’t want to take the risk with Brandon,” Trajkovic said. “He knew Brandon was improving but he felt more comfortable with veterans. You have to understand. Brandon was leaving, so why risk something for a player who will leave your team anyway?”

Trajkovic said Jennings kept working hard. They often would simulate game conditions in practice and Jennings would dominate, especially later in the season.

“

Brandon is so much better than the talent here [pointing to the players in the Eurocamp]. He is far and away in front of them in skills and athletic ability. He needs to be competing against your best.
” — Nenad Trajkovic, Jennings’ development coach in Italy

“He kept his focus. Playing was important. But so was development. Sometimes you can’t control how much you play. But you can keep working and stay positive. Brandon did this.”

As the regular season ended, Jennings came down with a mild case of tendinitis in his knees. The doctors suggested he rest for a game or two. He quickly recovered, but by then, he was totally out of the rotation. His coach didn’t want to mess with the chemistry of the team and Jennings watched, helpless on the sidelines, as his team fell in the quarterfinals to Biella — a team that he had played his best game in the Italian league against just a few months earlier. Trajkovic, for one, didn’t blame Jennings for wanting to get out.

“He’s a competitor. He was frustrated. He had worked every single day. There were no days off. He hadn’t been home. He would have to wait more than a week for the camp. I think he felt it was enough. I agree with this. Brandon is so much better than the talent here [Trajkovic pointing to the players in the Eurocamp]. He is far and away in front of them in skills and athletic ability. He needs to be competing against your best.”

Trajkovic wasn’t always glowing in his praise. He said Jennings still had more to learn. He needed to totally buy into the team game. He needed to keep taking jump shots (he said Jennings put up more than 30,000 while he was in Europe) and he would need to get stronger in the NBA. But he cautioned not to read too much into Jennings’ struggles in Europe.

“I promise you. If you brought LeBron James over from high school straight to Europe, we would have messed him up,” Trajkovic said.

ds2488…im so glad you still want to take shits at Zeke! hmmmm lets see Take Rondo when at the time PG was not a need yeaaaaa that the knicks m.o. pill up players at positions of non need!! Where you hating on Balkman when he was hustling playing D and crashing boards running the floor and playing hard? Oh but wait should I do what you guys do and say “hey but come on 20 some odd other GM’s passed on him to!” lol is it hard to talk out of both sides of ur faces guys? Frye a big guy with a jumper (aint that how you guys defend Hill? lol) Lets face it clean cut kid with all the skills in the world and the type of black athlete Dolen likes! But it was a position of need at the time but he did not pan out so should not have the all knowing infallible Donnie have learned from that if anything?

So your pumping up Lee (Zekes pick) but craping on Lopez who is not going to be able to be faster then a small/power forward? Mind you Gallo shrinks need to guys who play hard D on him! as most soft euro players do.

My problem is with Donnie talking about what his scouts did not do to convince him about Jennings, it reflects badly on J. Hill. To me it shows regret in drafting Hill. I dont hear the Kings GM talking about BJ or OKC talking about Harden.

np question Donnie deserves the hit for not doing a personal Fly by on each and every top 12-20 prospect.

Not flying to Italy and doing more research — especially when he knew we were PG needy and this was a PG draft..

NO matter what Hill turns out to be Donnie has to take that hit.

*OKC talking about BJ as well

Here’s what Draft Express wrote about him around the same time. You mean to tell me Donnie Walsh couldn’t do the same thing? Especially when his team was desperate for a PG?

Here’s what Draft Express wrote about him

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Jennings-1114/

Forgive my typeo’s…..working on a spread sheet while debating you guys lol.

nashwonder…..where do you see all this in HIll?? Are you at the practice sessions if so can I come I would love to see our LOTTERY PICK actually play basketball!! lol But you are projecting these numbers from what??? Every other LOTTERY PICK is getting run so I can not cosign that “he is raw” crap! While I dont blame you for trying to keep hope alive on the kid because I sure hope he turns out great if we end up keeping him, the truth is everybody but him is playing! Gallo as a rook bad back and all got run until his back gave out again. So there is no excuse.

Blackwood, these position of need things you keep talking about make no sense. You just use them to support your opinion and change them whenever you want. The position of need does not matter for the Knicks, as you should realize that pretty much none of the guys who are here will be here next year. You are just plain wrong if you don’t think Gallinari or Hill is a good fit for this team and offense. I don’t even understand your last sentence about Gallo, but you seem to be saying he shrinks when guys play tough d on him. That is also just plain wrong, as he has shown the abiltiy to drive to the paint when guys try and body him up. Are you honestly trying to say Balkman was a good pick??? Yeah every gm should learn from Zeke and take scrubs when borderline allstars could be had. By that same reasoning, you are using a ridiculous doublestandard with Jordan Hill then, although of course he is not yet a scrub and has not been given a chance to play. I love when people try and defend Zeke, undoubtedly one of the worst gms in the history of the league. Every where he has gone to has been an unmitigated disaster, and still some people try and defend him. Do you understand that he has screwed our team over even through this year, long after hes gone. I just don’t get it, how can anyone defend him if they are not extremely biased.

Blackwood, have you seen any practices of Hill? You try to attack peoples opinions that he may be good by saying he isn’t playing and they couldn’t possibly see enough from him to know that. Yet at the same time you haven’t seen him and because you haven’t seen him you jump to the conclusion that hes bad. Thats pretty faulty logic right there man.

Way to go GUY….for putting up the facts to back up my Jennings point!! You get Gold star today my friend!! lol

are you telling me that you would trade GALLO for LOPEZ? i wouldnt

“NBA history is full of flashy scoring point guards that never win anything.”

Exactly.

Right, but they also get it right times than the Knicks.

Point blank, the Knicks got it right with Patrick Ewing in ’85, and Mark Jackson in I think it was ’87. They got it right again in ’88 when they got Rod Strickland, but he played the same position as Jackson and got traded.

Since then every pick has either been a disaster, or at best a role player. And there were plenty of star players on the board when the Knicks picked in the last 21 drafts.

Gallo was the best pick the knicks coulda had that year.you cant just combine two players and say”lopez and jennings” Gallo and Jennings woulda been better than Lopez and Jennings,or Gordon and Jennings

Your trying to tell me you have no understanding of the fact that teams have to fill positions of need?? Did you just start getting in to sports? Let me help you out on a basketball team you start 5 players now the PG is the one who basically runs the offense, he looks at what the other team is doing as far as defense and runs the offense accordingly. He facilitates the offense get it? and that my friend was where we where lacking!! So that is a position of need get it!?! We where not in need of a project forward who is the only LOTTERY PICK to raw to play at all!! Now you may have a crush on euro guys playing in the league but Darko is proof that they are as much a roll of the dice as A legit center who can anchor your team in the post for a decade!!

first off it was not an attack it was a question, and if he did go to the practices I would love to tag along!! The second question was what was he basing the projected numbers he put out there on.

“I see a good not great PF a 12-15 pt. 8-10 reb. player which is a good pick!”

I cant see how me asking him to explain how he came up with those numbers are in any way an attack.

So once again “nashwonder” if you do go to the practices I would love to tag along because as I said in the original post meant for you I would love to see our LOTTERY PICK actually play basket ball! And it seams going to a practice is the only way to do it.

Blackwood, your positions of need are completely nonsensical. You don’t seem to understand that there are no positions of need for teams this bad. Thats not even considering the FACT that none of the guys who are here now will be here next year, so unless you are psychic and can see the future composition of the knicks after this year you are completely wrong to judge whether a pg or pf is a position of need. You must be new to sports or something or just not want to consider an obvious fact. All of these guys are expiring contracts and DW made it pretty clear that he was rebuilding for 2010, a concept you don’t seem to understand. NOw if you want to say that they messed up and picked the wrong guy instead of BJ that is perfectly fine and logical to say. But to say taht pg was the only position of need on this team is completely wrong in every way. Who’s to say they don’t end up with Wade or Lebron, in which case they don’t really need a ball-dominating pg. Gallo and HIll should both fit perfectly into any team dynamic no matter who they get, unless you don’t understand the concept of team basketball where one guy needs to knock down open shots and be a pick and roll threat and another needs to be a banger on the inside who grabs rebounds and blocks shots. Keep making points about DW messing up picks based on talent, because that is completely fine and a good argument. But stop with this crap about P.O.N, because unless you can see the future then it is just pointless and wrong.

I never said Donnie shouldn’t have gone over to see Jennings, he definitely should have and I agree with Biggie, he deserves to take a hit for it.

But you have to look at all the circumstances.

1) He couldn’t get PT on a Euro team with injury problems. That’s a red flag whether you go to Italy or not. It was a flag that proved to be misleading but it was a flag nonetheless. I really want to know what that team was thinking when they had prodigious talent like Jennings. That threw everyone off.

2) Jennings was slipping fast. Even Jon Givony of DraftExpress, one of his biggest cheerleaders, expected him to fall out of the lottery.

3) Jennings had some horrific shooting percentages (much like his last 2 weeks) in Europe. Another red (herring) flag.

4) Jennings didn’t floor anybody in workouts in the states in comparison to the other PG prospects.

5) Flynn and Curry soared just prior to the draft. Flynn wasn’t expected to be in the lottery until he blew people away a workouts. Until Minne and GS fell in love with they right before the draft, they probably would have been the pick instead of Hill. So the Knicks 4 top prospects, all PGs were taken somewhat unexpectedly. Do we get our 5th choice of PG or do we get our 2nd choice of bigs? Remember, bigs are more expensive than PGs, think 2010. It was a guard-heavy draft but not many people thought players like Lawson and Holiday would have a big impact on draft day.

6) I think it’s obvious Donnie was after at least one of Kahns 4 PGs. Why would he pick a PG if he thought he could get Rubio? Again, I think putting all his eggs in the Rubio basket was Walsh’s biggest error in judgment, not necessarily passing on Jennings.

I got to ask: Would we be having this debate if the Knicks had the 6th or 7th pick? Would people still be sulking over Jennings if we had Curry or Flynn?

What if we were the 9th or 10th pick? If the Nets take Hill at 8 would we have taken Jennings at 9?

I’m not posing an argument here, just thinking out loud. The 8th pick was an awkward spot in that draft for us.

Where are you getting this putting his eggs in the Rubio basket stuff? That’s pure speculation. Mostly from this blog, where Tommy was on here saying stuff like “Rubio was the target” every day from May till after the draft, until Donnie Walsh blew that theory out of the water by saying otherwise.

Donnie Walsh has gone on record saying he has Blake Griffin ranked first on his board, followed by Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry then Jordan Hill. Jonny Flynn wasn’t even on his board.

I think you have to read the Chad Ford piece before you can say stuff like “He couldn’t even get playing time on a Euro team with injury problems.” All the info you need on that are right there.

And what injury problems are you talking about? I followed that team very closely last year and I don’t recall them having major injury problems.

How is his shooting a red flag if he’s not getting regular playing time? If you read the Chad Ford piece I put up you’d read that all the scouts and GMs who followed him closely didn’t think that was an issue. His shooting got better and better and he was working with one of the top development coaches in the world, for up to 5 hrs a day, which only speaks to his desire and work ethic.

Ricky Rubio’s shooting was a major red flag too then, but it didn’t stop Tommy or most of the members on this board for wishing for him on draft night.

Jennings was the 5th choice? How do you know that? What’s that based on? Had Donnie done his homework, don’t you think he would’ve had him ranked higher?

We haven’t been the greatest drafting team, I can’t argue that. But I don’t think that’s whats really holding us back when it comes down to it.

Your comparisons are unfair. I mean Durant, Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gay are gimmes. I’m willing to bet the Knicks would have picked
them up if they had the draft position.

Every draft is different and both Gallo and Hill have a chance to become stara. Maybe even an all-star for Gallo. Maybe not, we just don’t know yet.

I think people would be upset if we picked Curry or Flynn and Jennings proved to be the better player. It would mean that once again the Knicks got it wrong in the draft. And that’s the problem I think many of us have with this team.

Listen, I can get on board with rebuilding. It’s been a long time coming. But give me something to get excited about. A franchise PG in this year’s draft would’ve had me extremely excited about 2010. Who wouldn’t want to play with a young stud? Same thing with last year’s draft. I like Gallo, but I don’t think he was the best player available.

Teams like OKC and Portland have their fans excited. They may play in a small market, but they have a core group of exciting young home grown players, and a ton of cap room coming for the next few years.

How can you not get excited about the possibility of teaming Durant, Westbrook, and Green with a good free agent or 2? And Portland, even though they got it wrong with Oden over Durant, how could you not get excited about a team with Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Nicolas Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge, and alot of cap space?

They’ve been hit with injuries hard lately, but fans have alot to be optimistic about.

Even a team like Memphis. Rudy Gay, O.J. Mayo, Marc Gasol. That’s a very solid core right there. Much better than anything the Knicks have. Yeah they screwed up drafting Thabeet # 2, but they’ve gotten their other recent picks right. And they too have alot of cap room. Now will anyone ever sign there is another story, cuz they’re so poorly run, but can you make an argument for Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, and Hill, being more talented than any of those young players I listed above?

I sure can’t.

Durant looks like a scoring champ and future MVP candidate. Roy is an All Star. Mayo, Gay, and Gasol look like future All Stars. Who can you say that about on the Knicks?

Plus these teams haven’t traded away their picks like we have, so they have a chance to get EVEN BETTER in the draft next year.The Knicks are just hoping and praying that a savior decides to ride in on a white horse and save this franchise.

That’s what gets me down about this team. There’s very little sense of hope. And when you see a kid like Jennings shining on another team, when he WOULD’VE BEEN PERFECT ON OUR TEAM it hurts.

It hurts like hell.

LMAO….so draft picks are not part of the future!?! wow dude you are nutz!!!
If your teams PG sucks then you need a GOOD PG so when your drafting ummmm yea PG is a priority AKA your looking to fill a position of need!!
If you have 6 twiner forwards you dont need to draft another with a LOTTERY PICK on a guy who is the only LOTTERY PICK not good enough to see any run.

Who’s to say he’s not good enough to see any run. You are just drawing another ridiculous conclusion to support your opinion. I don’t know if you have noticed, but the priority of this team seems to be to get rid of the horrible contracts that the worst gm in the history of the league left them with. That means that the 20 million they have devoted to Jeffries and Curry makes it a necessity that they get playing time to showcase them. And you are completely misunderstanding my argument and don’t even seem to understand your own, in that you seem to be saying draft picks aren’t part of the future because you are judging them after less than a year of playing bball. Again, you are just being unreasonable. Hill has been somewhat effective in the minutes he has played, certainly more so than Jeffries and Curry. Him not playing does not mean hes not good enough to play. And also try and take some time to think what you are arguing here, as your snap judgements about rookies seem to be based on the assumption that you can judge these players as good or bad after a year of playing. All I can say to that is think of all the players who have struggled over there first years in the league, and imagine what it would be like if GMs were like you and gave up on guys after they haven’t even played yet.

“I haven’t spoken to Minnesota; I will.”

“He (Rubio) was one of (our) top players,”

“I would never say never to anything. We’re in the offseason. We’ll be checking everything out.”

-Donnie Walsh.

If you don’t think Walsh wanted Rubio, well then I have some wonderful farmland in Afghanistan I would like to sell you.

“If you read the Chad Ford piece I put up you’d read that all the scouts and GMs who followed him closely didn’t think that was an issue.”

Chad Ford writes a lot of things, including how scouts have told him that Yi was the third best prospect in 07 after Oden and Durant and how Hansbrough was the most nba ready this year. If you want to put your entire argument on the shoulders of one Chad Ford article be my guest but I’ll allow Chad to refute your argument:

Chad Ford’s 2009 Draft Grades.

Bucks: B+

“He needs to get stronger, work on his jump shot and settle down a bit, but he has the tools to be great if he wants to be…

…The Bucks’ future now rests with young players like Andrew Bogut, Joe Alexander and Jennings. It might take Jennings a little longer to realize his potential, but if he does, the Bucks hit a home run. ” – Chad Ford

Don’t label Chad Ford as some prophet because clearly he had a few reservations of his own. Even with all this information you claim Walsh didn’t have, Ford still thought Joe Alexander would find his potential before Jennings did. Way off there.

But here’s the kicker!

Knicks: B+

“The Knicks didn’t get what they wanted in the draft — Ricky Rubio or Stephen Curry was supposed to be the point guard of the future at Madison Square Garden.

But they did draft the BEST AVAILABLE PLAYERS at both points in the first round, and I think they improved.” – Chad Ford

Word to the wise; never let an ESPN columnist be the crutch of your argument.

That’s all fine but my point is that he didn’t have Jennings ranked higher because he didn’t bother to go out to see him. Now he’s blaming his scouts for that.

Walsh and alot of fans were using the excuse that they didn’t get to see Jennings play at the EuroCamp because he didn’t show up, and my point is that Walsh had plenty of opportunities to see him during the year.

Just like Chad Ford did. Just like Jonathan Givony did. They’re not getting paid to rebuild the Knicks’, but why did they deem it necessary to go scout Jennings in person and and the man who IS getting paid to rebuild the Knicks didn’t? Why did they bother talking to his coaches and not Walsh?

You conveniently left out the part in the Ford piece where he said that some scouts had Jennings ranked as high as the 2nd or 3rd player in the draft. Maybe Walsh could’ve been one of those guys if he bothered to go to Italy.

As fate would have it, Jennings looks like he might be the 2nd or 3rd best player in that draft. So as it turns out so far, that was a very prophet-like piece by Ford.

Maybe HE should be running the Knicks.

“I’m not going to blame the scouts for missing this kid. His numbers were not good overseas.”

Numbers don’t always give the best determination of a player’s skills/talents, also the kid didn’t get consistent minutes and he had to adjust to a different style of play from the American game, learn a language, all while playing with grown men with fully matured bodies (pause).

I also read that people affiliated with the Italian team/league purposely downplayed/bad-mouthed him/talent probably in an attempt to keep him out of the draft or hurt his stock? With _’antoni’s connections with that country he should have been able to get some inside information on this kid and push for the Knicks to tab him as much as he pushed for his godson to be drafted (Walsh admitted _’antoni lobbied for Gallinari very heavily before that draft).

“The Lakers chipped in to help the Knicks and gave us a player who is going to be very good. Tell me they could not use him on their team….please.”

I like Shannon Brown better than Toney Douglas and I’d make that trade in a heartbeat. I might even trade Douglas for Jordan Farmar with maybe a slight hesitation.

Tracy McGrady, Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudemire (ROY).

I and others seem to see my points so im sorry if they go over your head at times. Look we are going back and forth we both agree donnnie is being a clown trying to pass the buck for his screw up, and if you read older posts of mine you will see time and again that I want and wish the best for these young guys Gallo & Hill and I dont think these kids are trash and have never said that, what I am saying is that they may have not been the best choices for our team and the needs the team needs to fill when you add the goal of adding a Lebron or Wade! A center and or a PG are key for these type of guys to come here and move beyond the point they have reached on the teams they are already on! I don’t see why that is so hard to understand! If you drafted Hill to keep him and believe in him let him get run!! JJ is not playing 40 mins a game if the case is as you clam that he cant play now because we are trying to trade JJ no way in hell you tell me this man cant find 10 mins in a game at least!! He is a LOTTERY PICK foe petes sake!! so in closing we agree to disagree and that’s that. Because you dont get me and I damn sure dont get you on this issue.

Edit:

“…him/his talent…”

I did NOT talk about Lee’s defense, can’t you stick to the subject matter?

By the way, I was the FIRST person to talk about Lee’s lack of D around here.

Gallo guarded Frye on almost EVERY possession. Frye blew right by Gallo once, SO WHAT??? It happens! Even LeBron loses his man every now and then!! WHat the f*ck???

Wilson Chandler got torched by Lewis, not Gallinari so your assumption is baseless.

Hey guys can I change gears here for a min……If we do pull of a trade in to the first rd of the draft it will be for a mid to low first rd pick, so what guys would you like the knicks to target in that draft range? I like Tony Crocker from Oklahoma, he reminds me of Barbosa just bigger and stronger he is 6′6. In the mid to low range of the draft I think he could be a great pick. I also think Jerome Dyson went toe 2 toe with Wall and looked just as good.

“BA history is full of flashy scoring point guards that never win anything. So I think we need to wait a year or two to see if he turns out to be Chris Paul or Marbury.”

Chris Paul hasn’t won anything either.

“was a guy projected to go in the top 5 that dropped to them. He’s an interior player and they are deficient in that area.”

So “deficient” that Hill can’t get off the bench?

“And please, can you give Walsh a little credit for getting that 27th pick from the Lakers and picking Douglas with it?”

Toney Douglas was drafted 29th overall the last time I checked.

People feel the need to downplay the kid’s talent to justify their idol Mr. Walsh’s mistake (admitted as much by his statements) in not drafting him. How many wins has the Knicks’ draft pick contributed to so far?

GM’s are not supposed to travel and monitor players in Italy – they don’t have enough time to do that which is why they have a scouting department. Donnie Walsh has seen Jennings play on tape – and I guess he didn’t come away impressed (for obvious reasons).

Obviously the scouts didn’t like Jennings enough to put pressure on Donnie Walsh. The only thing that I regret is the fact that they didn’t try to schedule a 2nd look at Jennings. Considering the fact that he had an underwhelming season in Italy, I think it would have been a wise decision to schedule a 2nd workout against other point guards. I think DW’s scouting was too “light”. I blame THAT on Donnie Walsh.

Obviously the Knicks didn’t make the right decision but J-Hill will be a good player and we should all be rooting for him. We love the New York Knicks and Jordan Hill is a Knick, do you really have to jerk off intellectually because you were right about Jennings?

ROTFL

He was a top 5 pick on every mock draft throughout the 2008-2009 season.

He slipped. But many experts thought Hill was a top 5 pick.

Don’t hate.

The funny thing is Walsh fans, and that’s what I will call them because Knick fans wouldn’t continue to deny this, will still say they don’t blame Donnie for passing on him.

Hill’s biggest “hate(r)” is _’antoni, he can’t get off his bench.

Congratulations Blackwood..you are now the Al Sharpton of the Knicksblog.

Nobody said anything about their race, or “inner city blackness”. Marbury’s insanity goes beyond race…Isiah’s incompetence goes beyond race…and Jennings was just a missed pick cause Walsh admited he didn’t have all the information (Donnie’s fault).

I think it’s ironic how quick you cry racism when anyone comments negativley about
Steph
Isiah
Nate
Jennings

but you only make negative/racist comments towards anyone white

Walsh
Layden (who deserves it but not why you do it)
Dantoni
Gallinari (played well and refered to him as the “white kid”
Dolan (also deservedly, but not why you do it)

You’re posts reek of reverse racism and it’s very apparent. Because of that your posts are not credible to me. I honestly believe you would be much happier with Charlie Murphy as the Knicks coach instead of Dantoni. His blackness makes him better than Dantoni!! Ridiculous.

Isiah sucked get over it. Steph is a douche get over it.

Donnie is at fault for not doing his due dilligence…thats what led to him passing on Jennings or any other potentially good player. He’s admitting as much but sounding like an ass for trying t blame it on other people.

I still don’t think not drafting Jennings is such a huge monumental mistake that can’t be recovered from. Still time for trades and the cap space plan is still in place. Would Jennings have been a good addition..yes…is it the end all for this team…no. Rubio can still be an option, so can Paul (especially if his team keeps on stinking).

Great Post, well said

GMs are not supposed to travel to Italy? Are you kidding me? How do you think all these Euro prospects are discovered? And Walsh even admits his scouts told him he was pretty good, but he has the nerve to say they should’ve been in his office every day if he was that good.

You sound like Tommy Dee, apologizing for all of Donnie’s mistakes when you say something like that. .

When a GM goes overseas to look at a player, they watch them in practice for a week or 2. They do some background work and talk to coaches, assistants, GMs. That’s what the good GMs do.

Whenever there’s a game a big Euroleague game on NBA TV, I see plenty of GMs in the stands. I’ve seen guys like Jerry West, Pat Riley, Sam Presti, hell I even saw Isiah Thomas there a couple of times when he was here.

The problem here isn’t that I was right about Jennings, but that Donnie Walsh “didn’t have a feel for him”. That’s disturbing coming from the man in charge of rebuilding this team. The even bigger problem is that fans like you and Tommy are quick to give him a pass when something like this happens.

When did failure become acceptable around here? I guess it’s not just the players affected by the losing culture with the Knicks.

ROTFL the fact that you call me a Donnie Walsh apologist is ridiculous, can’t we have a rational discussion with you mayne?

I thought Donnie Walsh should have picked Eric Gordon last season. I said it, there was even tension between me and Tommy at one point but we resolved this situation like gentlemen. I criticized the fact that Donnie Walsh pulled Lee off the market a couple of weeks before the trade deadline. I criticized the fact that he didn’t make a move for Anthony Randolph when he was in Don Nelson’s doghouse last season. I criticized the fact that he didn’t draft a point guard in the 2009 draft.

GM’s don’t travel to Europe for a player who averages 5 points per game with a 0.38 FG%, especially if they don’t know if he’ll play when they get there. Period.

“We haven’t been the greatest drafting team…”

Understatement of the decade.

Paul is not an option until he is in his final year. He has zero leverage.

Rubio will be a project the day he gets his visa and who knows when that will be or if it will even be to play for the Knicks.

I’ll agree passing on him isn’t as egregious as is trying to shift blame. You can’t judge a point guard’s “point guard skills” in a 1 on 1 environment. He needs to be put in a 5 on 5 situation. Athletically he was the best available at the point guard spot by far available on the board. The kid’s wingspan is ridiculous, speed and explosiveness unmatched in the draft. I think he really wanted to be picked by the Knicks based on his reaction when not being selected by them. Could he have intentionally been allowing his stock to slip by coasting in workouts to fall into their laps at 8? Makes no difference now. In 3 years the Knicks will could possibly be trying to pry him away from the Bucks, hopefully Hill will be released from NBA bench purgatory by then.

Chad Ford doesn’t get paid to scout players for the Knicks, Donnie does.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! There are scouts sent to Europe all the time to scout players. All. The. Time. San Antonio seems to have one living over there.

Hey, the Knicks still need a 2 guard. A bigger Barbosa sounds great if he can play better defense.

Scouts all the time : yes.

GM’s all the time : no.

Yeah Tommy doesn’t like me much either Mucha lol. When I pay him a compliment he ignores me. When he feels I’m dead wrong about something he swings in like Indiana Jones to try and ridicule my opinions with condescending 1 liners. I’m kinda peeved at the fact he didn’t set a certain blogger, who shall remain nameless (he rarely posts, he’s probably reading this right now and he has the record for the longest posts) straight when attacked me for being a Tommy hater. I know Tommy saw this particular post because he commented on part of it lol.

Don’t get me wrong HaS, Tommy handled the situation like a gentleman. We’re cool, I got a lot of respect for him and the feeling is mutual.

Gossip is essentially what all the disparaging comments about Jennings’ character have proven to be so far as well. The point is Jennings was the best PG on the board when the Knicks picked. He may end up being the best PG taken in the draft period. He should have been a Knick.