Any questions regarding the Nate Robinson trade speculation have been answered in great detail by Steve 
Adamek. Fortunately, I can turn to my legal council Andrew Smith for any questions, but from what I’ve studied and researched, Adamek’s take seems to be pretty accurate. Meaning don’t expect Nate to be traded anytime soon.
“…We’re not going to go all NBA Labor Agreement 101 about this, but here are the salient facts:
By signing his one-year, $4 million free-agent contract with the Knicks last summer, N8 became known as what’s called a “base year compensation player.” It’s part of the rules we won’t explain any further, except to say this: For the purpose of the Knicks using him in a trade, his contract is only worth slightly more than $2 million, which means because they’re over the cap, they can basically take only a $2 million player (or players) back..
Yet, to the team trading for him, he’s worth $4 million and if that team is over the cap, it can’t fit in a $4 million player by trading a $2 million one..
That’s math that doesn’t quite work in a salary-cap system where, within certain percentages, a trade can be made only if the salaries are equivalent _ unless a team taking on more money is below the salary cap.
Agreed, that’s already confusing.
But as Walsh put it Monday, that almost certainly means the Knicks will have to throw a second player into any deal involving N8 and likely find a third team to get involved and even out the money somehow.
That would likely be one of the teams that’s currently below the salary cap _ and you know how many of those there are at the moment? According to HoopsHype.com, four: Nets, Portland, Memphis and Oklahoma City.
Oh, and because Robinson has veto power over any deal, consider that someone familiar with his thinking said N8 won’t just accept a deal anywhere, such as to Golden State, for example.
There is one theory, promulgated by our friend Chris Sheridan at ESPN.com, that it would serve the Knicks best to hold onto N8 the rest of this season not because he might eventually play again, but because he’d have value as a chip in a potential sign-and-trade deal next summer for one of the premier free agents…”
On a separate note I had the chance to ask Walsh if he wanted to comment on the Sacramento rumors last year because I’ve heard fans say that he “dropped the ball” by not making the move. Walsh wouldn’t comment.
A second source confirmed to me that the proposed “report” of Jared Jeffries and Nate for Kenny Thomas was seriously overblown.
Walsh hadn’t spoken to Nate’s agent before or during practice due to the time difference, and it seems like Walsh is handling the situation with great care. Goodwin Sports manages, among others, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant and TKB favorite Al Horford.
Sign and trade deal next summer? Maybe but then the Knicks would have Robinson’s cap hold on their salary cap space which I believe would be double his salary and kill our chances of getting two max free agents. I think the Knicks are going to have to renounce all their free agents. The only one that might be worth holding on to, despite his cap hold, may be Lee.
agreed…the sign and trade was an ESPN theory.
They couldn’t sign and trade him last summer when he played and played well. Why do they think they can sign and trade him this summer when he will ride the bench all year. I know there will be a lot more money available this summer, but geez…they gotta let this guy play…it’s not right
I hope he ends up in portland…that would be perfect
“but geez…they gotta let this guy play…it’s not right”
why? if the coaches think he’s more of a detriment than an asset, why play him? He has a tiny 1year/4 million contract. He is literally a throw away player for the Knicks at this point.
I am not intending to demean nate robinson but it appears he has very little value at all. Keep him on the bench in the case of catastrophic injuries and ask his agent to simply STFU and collect his check until the end of the season.
Crisis averted!
If a team has a trade exception they can use that to absorb the salary..
Orlando for example has a 6 mil plus exemption from teh Hedo Turkoglu trade that can easily accommodate Nate’s cap number.
Right but then what would that team trade us back that wouldn’t effect our salary cap space in 2010 and be worth it for us to trade for? I said maybe because the only thing I could think of was a first round pick in 2011 but who would trade that for Nate?
I think Chris Sheridan’s thinking was to package Nate and something on the Knicks roster for Lebron, Dwade, Bosh, or Amare but I just don’t see that happening.
we would get back nothing but the salary cap relief from trading him.
you arent getting anything back for Nate given the current circumstance.
The thought of packaging him for a sign and trade is not happening.. especially now.
its either a trade exception or a buyout.. the agent likely pushes for a buyout so Nate can completely control his destiny and likey go to Cleveland, Orlando or some other playoff team for the minimum salary as opposed to his 4mm deal
to that here are some other possibli]lities of trade exceptions where teams could absorb Nate’s 2mm number
Bulls
Nuggets
Rockets
Clippers
Lakers
Heat
Nets
Hornets
Thunder
Magic
Suns
they all have a trade exception of around 2 mil or more
I would be happy for nate to end up with any of those teams…except the nets of course lol
so i was wrong.lol.
ESPN rumors are saying this about Nate’s situation: “We told you earlier today about some of the hurdles the Knicks could face in their effort to trade Nate Robinson, including, but not limited to, Robinson’s ability to veto any trade deal.
But according to ESPN’s Chris Sheridan, there’s one place Robinson won’t veto: Boston.”
If we were to send nate to Boston, what are the chances we could land Ray Allen? I remember reading earlier in the year that Boston was looking to deal Allen, and articles like this only add to the speculation ( http://www.nesn.com/2009/11/trading-ray-allen-not-as-crazy-as-you-might-think.html )
Going by the #’s, we could send Jeffries, Robinson, and Mobley’s contract for Allen. Even though Allen is getting older, he can still shoot the lights out from anywhere on the court. And we would be able to re-sign him at a much lower cost than what he makes now. That would be a VERY attractive situation to Lebron. Knowing that he can drive and kick to Allen on the left or Gallo on the right would be an absolute nightmare for opposing defenses. Then again, who knows if the celtics would ever make a move like that. One can always dream..
Do feel free to dream, so long as you know that’s what it is. At this point, it’s all about rings for Ray-Ray. Plus, Mobley won’t be traded if the reports are to be believed. I do think they could be a player for Jeffries, though, and expirings could return if they want to swap a few to add Nate in as a bonus.
why not ask for Rondo?
Rondo, Perkins, Wallace, House and Daniels for Nate.
*Gets out an industrial strength mop*
I thought a trade for Ray Allen was off but god it wasn’t like he said Nate for Brandon Roy or Kevin Durant….god.
boston would never do that trade
I for one was adding to the sarcastic comment of big with my statement which was dripping in sarcasm. Hence the need of a mop.
I was refering to the original poster that wanted to trade some type of nate/jeffries package for ray allen’s expiring contract
oh, then he felt the need to convince us that it would be good for the knicks lol
Nate works just fine if he’s a chip in a big trade – $2M extra can easily work in a $16-18M deal. Now, that big trade might also be another reason to say “this isn’t happening anytime soon”, but if you’re Nate, are you gonna sit on the bench forever? He seems too impatient for that.
zero chance of getting anything for Nate at this point.. The coach put the GM over a barrel same he did with Marbury.. He is forcing DW hand to make a buyout or deal from weakness.
trade exception or buyout..
Adding Nate into a bigger trade doesn’t mean a team has to give anything special back. You could have a big expiring swap all set with Jeffries included and just throw in Nate as sugar; an extra where the other team adds a bit of expiring salary to absorb Nate’s $4M total. He has to agree, of course, but I think he would eventually. I’ll have to look and see if any team would fit the situation financially.
why would he agree to being a throw in on a multi player trade?
he trusted Donnie once this off season and that didnt work out too well..
He would have been unemployed if he didnt
I meant a big trade financially, not with any star players.
You do know your stuff BiggieSmalls, I will give you credit where it is due. Always enjoy reading your posts. Although I do disagree with your view on Nate. I don’t believe that Nate’s situation is anywhere near as bad as Marbury’s. The crowd chants are similar, but I don’t think that anybody around the league believes that Nate is a cancer or a complete distraction to a team like Steph was.
Immature, yes. Over-emotional, most of the time. But Nate is a talented player and can be a great addition to a team looking for a spark off the bench. Remember last season, Robinson was the front runner for 6th man of the year until he got injured. Teams know his capabilities and I definitely think he will be traded for a piece we can use, whether it be an expiring deal, or the knicks using him as an additional piece to bring in a player to help us win the lebron sweepstakes. Either way, I have a feeling that both sides will benefit from the move.
thanks Funk..
I agree with you that Nate HAD value (tho some on this blog would say he never had any value) but given the Coach’s bashing him (“Nate is not a winner” and essentially uncoachable) in the media and benching him (“i’d play satan if he could help us but not Nate”)and then the agent asking for a trade and Donnie looking like a man over a barrel no team will give up anything for a player that they think will be the subject of a buyout..
Why pay $4 for something you can get for $1?
that’s where the similarities start and end with Marbury.. both are/were in the coach’s doghouse, not playing and possessing expiring deals (tho Marbury’s was substantially larger)
Not getting into the Nate drama anymore tho.. that’s water under the bridge.. this thread is about discussing the next steps to clean up a fractured relationship..
Hey Big, as the resident expert in this discussion on all things Cap, can you answer these 2 questions (both from a Cap perspective & a realistic trade perspective)?
1) Would N8 & a # 2 to the Nets for Dooling & the Nets 2nd # 1 (late 1st rounder from the Kidd trade) work?
2) If traded to any team, what happens to N8s 1mill bonus kicker for making the playoffs (if he goes to a squad that makes post season) ?
thats a good question on the bonus kicker.. I thought that it had to be included as it is a reasonably attainable incentive (as an eastern conf team or arguably to the team he is moved to)
Still it only affects the dollars by 500K.. (1/2 the million as per BYC rules)
Dooling is 3.5 mil which is too much to accept back for Nate’s 2 (or 2.5) mil.. and you cant use the trade exception on a deal with another player involved.. The Nets could take him straight up for this Vince Carter trade exception.. and nothing else..
Dooling is 3.8 mil in 2010 so unlikely DW takes him back..
I thought Dooling’s 3.8 in 2010 was not guarenteed … so does that count against the Cap or could the Knicks just renounce him at the end of June?
if it isnt guaranteed then yeah.. he can he cut.. But his 3.5 this year doesnt match up.
I can’t recall anyone on this blog ever saying he “never” had value…that’s not accurate. this summer proved he didn’t…no?
TD
umm no.
He was an RFA who didnt get any off sheets.. Just like D Lee.. Only Nate has said repeatedly that he didnt solicit offer sheets (unlike Lee’s traveling road show)
RFA offer sheets wern’t flying around this off season as we know..
He wasn’t soliciting offers, but I don’t think he was turning any down either. There just weren’t any. I know there is more money to spend, this summer. But if he doesn’t play? Just deal him anywhere and let him play. Let the man earn a living and get a nice contract for next year.
darkseid, your last 2 sentences apply exactly to Starbury last year this time … that’s what I dislike the most about this drama … there’s alot of replay of how Father Mike handled Steph in the growing N8 saga …
yeah, I feel bad for nate since it may be handled that way. Marbury was a little easier to take because he already made his big money in the league. This next contract is much more important to nate. Hopefully he agrees to any reasonable team and realizes he needs to play to make money….and that he also doesn’t eat vasoline on the internet this offseason
I agree but Nate said himself — and Donnie corroborated — that Nate said from Day 1 July first that he wanted to come back and didnt want to go anywhere else..
my point is just because there were no offers doesnt mean he had no value.. whatever that value was is still debatable but now it is clearly lower
Look, the fact is that he had ZERO offers when he could be had so cheaply (RFA or not…a few million a year over a few years would have sent him packing given the Knicks aversion to ANY 2010 contracts) Doesn’t that kinda put a dent in your theory that it’s solely D’antoni’s fault that Nate Robinson has little value now? Maybe its that Nates value is fairly low and has been for some time despite this years benching. (as opposed to benching in years past)
was the nate/jeffries for kenny thomas trade over the summer just a rumor?
I agree they have squandered his value with the career assassination by DM. That being said what do you think about asking for Shannon Brown or Farmer?
The money is about the same for ether and while ether would offer versatility to us n8 on the other hand is all star offense off the bench for the champs.
Just a thought.
Nate and Hill
for
Anthony Randolph and filler
no way golden state accepts that deal. they have no need for nate.
How’s about N8 & Hill for Randolph & CJ Watson? Don’t know if that works $ wise but it frees exchanges guys of exact same positions & helps the Knicks with PG help for Du-NON …
No need for Nate maybe but could they use Hill?
They passed on Hill in the draft, why would they want him now? He hasn’t even shown that he can play in the nba.
Good point but they wanted Curry over Hill,that doesn’t mean there not still high on Hill in a trade that they would be losing AR.
Its not Curry for Hill if it was I could see your point.
how bout nate hill danni boy an cash for ant ran an whoeva to make it work
can we all please jsut stop with the anthony randolph trade scenarios. its not going to happen. period.
nate’s getting bought out most likely
i wonder if u could trade danni boy with nate
i wonder whats danni boy’s value in the league…
Donnie Walsh wont make himself look like a tard and sign a guy in the offseason just to buy him out after, that would be a bigger mistake than bringing him back.
Blasphamy DaGawD_KnowLedge …. a pox on your crib (just kidding). How could you dare suggest trading the “greatest shooter in the history of the NBA” at any time … and to trade him with Sat8 no less (my new nickname for N8 & Saten) …. Blasphamy I say !!!
@ DaGawD_KnowLedge:
Are you even a knicks fan? Every comment you have is either something negative about the team or the coaching staff. If you have anything insightful about this team, or coaching staff that doesn’t include you referencing D’Antoni to “danni boy”, then please share. Until then, please leave these boards to people who care about this team and want to see success in the near future.
u know winning the championship is success rite
an we don’t have a coach to bring that..
u guys an gals don’t care if u think u could see that
danni boy isn’t a championship caliber coach..
this site got the most delusional people on it.
10-17 i guess is a great.
lmao..
Yes, winning a championship is the whole point of playing…but we do not have the talent this year. Maybe you believe that we do have the talent and that the 10-17 record is all Mike D’s fault. We can blame him for what, 2 games this season?
When 2010 comes, I can GUARANTEE you will be riding shotgun on the Knicks bandwagon. Until then, you should continue rooting for only successful teams with coaches who meet your expectations. Isn’t that what being a true fan is all about? Rooting for a team when they win and bashing them when they don’t.
lmao..
lmao.
first of all i never been a bandwagon
i got my own taste an can think for myself
just cuz every1 likes it doesn’t mean i will
there is no players that coming here that i like
an the coach is the worse ive seen in in longtime.
enjoy the kool aid guys an gals an keep the kool aid smile up
cuz the losing streak is coming soon..
at the allstar break the knicks are going to be 10-20 games below 500..
wait an see..
So let’s clear this up. Your not a fan of the knicks now, and you have no interest in any players we may acquire in the future. Correct?
My next question will have to be, why are you involved on this site if none of it’s content seems to interest you?
@Blackwood:
Howard on the mavs is a good player, but he is a headache. And I recall him having some extremely ignorant comments about the national anthem. I’d much rather deal Nate elsewhere than get Howard.
so i can’t observe the knicks
i still watch them
i was a big lee fan
i also liked nate
but i’m nit a fake delusional fan
i keep it real.
no doubt the knicks are going to improve
after next year
but my main problem is that the coach doesn’t have enuff in this coaching book to win the big won
i keep it real.
LOL. I mean we are literally arguing with caricature of person, there’s no intellect or reason…if you read his posts, it’s abundantly clear, he’s not a Knick fan, he consistently makes wild eyed statements about who ‘rulez’ or ‘sux’ and then ends his little nuggets of “wizdumb” with some hackneyed urban trope about how he’s ‘keepin it real’
Go back to your video games son, the adults are talking.
if they do fall 10-20 games below .500, i bet you’d like that right? Seriously, if your not a fan of the Knicks, you shouldn’t be so involved with this blog.
just because he hasn’t won a ring means that the knicks can never win? He competed for years with the Suns and almost made it to the finals the year with the Spurs. He is a top 3 most respected coach in the league.
11-17 isn’t great, but look at our roster. i think he’s doing a great job with the current roster. By next year, we will be a totally different team, so what does “10 -17 i guess is great” even matter right now?!!
Hey I was just thinking about this what if we try to trade him to the Mavs!
N8 for Jose Juan Barea & Quinton Ross. Or if we want to think outside of the box how about N8 & JJ for Josh Howard? Money works and gives the Mavs some help on defense and one hell of a scoring threat!
how bout some bigger dream
try for dirk
or smaller dreams with marion
I take it that was sarcasm? not sure why it would be out of the realm of possibility ? The first option N8 for J Barea & Ross is a good deal for them since both those guys are bench dudes and nether is as good as N8. And as for N8 & JJ for Howard is not something that is so crazy, Money is the same and Howard is just coming back off injury and in his last year add that N8 can score just as well and JJ can be the defensive help the Mavs lack off the bench especially during the playoffs.
wasn’t sarcasm i just like to dream bigger.
that trade isn’t bad at all for dallas.
for the knicks it is a lil bad…
but still a good trade..
ignoring my email?
i’ll give you the rest of the night…
lol ok cool was not sure what way to read it lol. I think Howard could be real good with his scoring and defense at the 2guard, The other trade would just help us move on from N8 while giving us depth at the guard spots (if MD would use it is another post lol) but yea I would look for a pick out of it as well come to think of it. There going to the playoffs there a win now team they can use the fire power off the bench from N8.
the knicks slogan show be
COME CHECK OUT THE BEST CIRCUS SHOW IN TOWN
STARRING DANNI BOY
To changer gears are you guys keeping an eye on college ball? I just saw Utep put the beats on Oklahoma and the kid Arnett Moultrie on Utep really is a good player! Who are you guys keeping an eye on as far as who you think could be mid to late first rd picks? i ask that because I believe that is exactly what Harrington & or Lee will end up being flipped for.
They should only traded if we are out of the playoff hunt. If we’re still in the mix I bet Donnie holds on to those guys to make a run. That is the right way to do it.
I understand and trust me I want to make the playoffs as much as anyone else but that’s not the plan I keep getting sold by donnie and his back up singers lol its all about 2010. winning is great but all i have heard is that this is a throw away season and we are just hoping to win for pride and of course to lower the value of the pick the jazz own. So if 2010 is the game plan then we need to make the most at the trade deadline of whatever value Lee and Harrington muster. To be honest if we can get a first rd pick for each we need to pull the trigger! We can always see about resigning those guys guys at a good number after the season if not at least we can replace they guys we lose after this year is done with good cheap first rd talent imo.
The only plan I heard from DW was to add salary cap room to 2010 and stay competitive. If we are in the playoff hunt, which is far from a guarantee, we should keep the players we need to win. We’re showcasing the coach for 2010 free agents this season too. Making the playoffs this year would give us a much bigger payoff than an extra late round draft pick. We can always buy on of those anyway right? You can’t put a price on a knicks playoff appearance.
You like I know the plan was to clear money for Lebron and another max free agent, if or when thats done who else will be on the team?? They need to get payed as well and Lee or Harrington may be willing to give a discount it wont be to much, why would they rob themselves of millions? So whos left?? Thats why I say at the deadline if you can get picks projected anywhere in the 12 and say 20 range you need to do it for the long term success of the team.
Young Talent we control on the cheap and we have not done bad as far as talent go’s in the mid to late first rd (Lee,Chandler,Nate,Ariza,) The players we are targeting are not stupid they have people in place keeping an eye on all these things, and will see a long term chess move as something to benefit there arrival. Performing well now is good but having something to offer in 2010 besides money is better. Part of that getting 2 max contracts on our books requires us getting rid of JJ and Hill is the key to doing that, it may end up being the best thing we get out of Hill. Understand using Hill to dump JJ equals getting another legit star max player. I will take that over hoping Hill maybe might could turn to maybe a good player! A bird in the hand beats 2 in the bush my friend!
The plan never was to sign 2 max free agents this summer. You are the one going for two birds. Let’s try to win one playoff game and see who wants to come here next summer.
you are never gonna get 2 first round picks for players that a team is going to rent for a couple of months .both those guys are F.A’s next year
In my opinion win now teams are more then willing to pull the trigger on making a push while they have the core of a winning team in place. Rentals yes but would you as the GM of the (just examples) Mavs or the Nuggets or Spurs or Magic the Jazz so on and so forth if you could add a piece to your team you think could put you over the top your going to say no? Win now means “WIN NOW” IMO.
Where’s navy tested Heri all day? i haven’t seen his disfunctional postings.
all day long. I miss the former Navy Seabees.
He told me he changed his name from Heri the navy tested SeaBeast to Heri the Navy SeaBiscuit. LoL
You guys should wake up and smell the D’Antoni coffee. Right now the team has a brief winning cycle then they’ll go back to their losing ways. If you don’ t believe me that then please keep donating to the ‘make a wish’ foundation. Ha ha
lmao…
it’s that serious around here..
lmao
I think when/if N8 finally checks into a game, the PA announcer should go Church Lady from SNL and say “now entering the game …. could it be ….SATEN?”
word
but that won’t happen only on t.v
I disagree with those of you who keep saying that Walsh and D’Antoni are doing a poor job. I don’t think that the timing of Nate’s benching was a coincidence. It came during a relatively weak part of their schedule. Nate has shown by his actions that he just doesn’t get what is required of an NBA player. Sitting him and having the team with a winning record during his absence should be a very clear message to him that he needs to start doing things the right way. I would be suprised if he was traded at this time. I would be a lot less suprised if he starts playing again once the schedule gets a little tougher. Any stuff ups on his part after that would surely spell the end of his days in NY. You need player self discipline as a cornerstone when you coach. I’m happy with the job being done by both Walsh and D’Antoni. One of John wooden’s favorite quotes was “Discipline yourself and others won’t need to”. Players who lack discipline can destroy a team from within. D’Antoni has acted responsibly and in the best interests of the team. Sometimes a coach has to make tough decisions that are in the best interest of the team. In 1991, I had to send home our starting point guard from the National Championships, which were held in Perth, Western Australia. Our team is from Sydney (think LA to NY for the distance). I had to replace an experienced 18 year old with an inexperienced 13 year old and don’t regret the decision. The guy I sent home learned from the experience and came back to help us win a state championship in 1992. The 13 year old went on to become the best all around player I ever coached over a 30 year career. Lack of discipline kills team chemistry, creates disharmony among the players and if unacted upon causes players to lose respect for the coaching staff. D’Antoni knows that and that’s why Nate is not playing at the present time.
let’s see how is plays out
aussie
These discussions are becoming pure fantasia.
Randolph is not on the trading block, he is not in Nellie’s doghouse, and the Warriors would not trade him unless some idiot offered them the moon. Forget about Randolph.
And forget about trading Hill and Curry — they have zero trade value.
And Nate the Great Benched Bench Player has become the biggest non-issue in NY sports history. The team is doing better without him playing, so what’s the deal? He drove the coach nuts and that’s pretty hard to do for a coach who wants to play a fast paced game. If he can’t play for D’A who else could be play for besides the Globetters? Let’s hear the fantasies.
Play Anthony Randolph or sit him? Depends on who you ask
By Marcus Thompson II
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 12/19/2009 07:29:47 PM PST
http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_14035059
The Warriors and second-year forward Anthony Randolph agree on one thing for sure.
“I’m only 20 years old,” Randolph has said several times lately. “I’ve got a long career ahead of me.”
The Warriors bring up Randolph’s age to promote patience among fans and media who think Randolph should play more. Randolph’s motive for bringing up his age, on the other hand, seems to be his way of weathering the storm.
Either way, Randolph is a lightening rod for what is fast becoming a lost season for the 7-19 Warriors.
Once touted as the franchise’ prized youngster, Randolph has been reduced to a situational player whose future with the team is murky at best. Once considered coach Don Nelson’s starting power forward entering the season, Randolph often finds himself riding the bench.
Why? That depends on who you ask.
Members of the organization said he’s not ready for regular action because his game and work ethic is inconsistent. Those close to Randolph say the organization is inconsistent in their goals and standards, and that Randolph is an easy target because of his demeanor and sometimes-abrasive personality.
With injuries to centers Andris Biedrins and Ronny Turiaf, Randolph is presently the team’s best rebounder (6.5 per game) and shot blocker (1.3 per game).
Nelson has also used the 6-foot-11, 225-pound Randolph to run the break and initiate the offense.
“I think his basketball IQ is going to be good,” Nelson said. “Not always good. But he can do things that none of my other bigs can do.”
Randolph, though, averages 22.6 minutes per game. Second-year shooting guard Anthony Morrow and rookie guard Stephen Curry — other touted members of the Warriors’ core of young talent — both average more than 30 minutes. Randolph also has the same amount of starts (one) as Turiaf and NBA Development League call-up Chris Hunter.
That doesn’t sit well with many of Randolph’s supporters, who considered this a rebuilding year — which is what Warriors management called it coming into the season. Instead, the Warriors are going with veterans in many cases, including those who aren’t expected to be around long term, such as forward Vladimir Radmanovic and center Mikki Moore (before he decided to have surgery).
What’s more, it appears to some that veterans are allowed to make mistakes and take ill-advised shots while Randolph gets benched for the same.
The reason, according to Warriors insiders, is Randolph’s supremely inconsistent play. Some have said he let his success in summer league, and the invitation to the Team USA training camp, get to his head and curb his work ethic. He still has trouble remembering plays and where he needs to be, they say, which disrupts everything.
But in the six games this season where he has played 30 minutes or more, Randolph has averaged 17.8 points, 10.3 rebounds and 1.7 blocks. The Warriors are 3-3 in those games.
“If you look at any player in the NBA,” said Bill Duffy, Randolph’s agent, “I think it’s safe to say, the more latitude that they’re given, the more productive they’ll be. More often than not, a young player needs instruction and direction and latitude.”
so i’ve been taking a backseat when it comes to the Randolph talk on this blog, just trying to absorb everything and generate my own opinion. I even made it a point to follow his box scores and catch a couple games. And i have one question for everyone…
WHY THE LUST OVER RANDOLPH?!
Let me start out with what I do understand about this… He’s a 6’11 PF who can run the fast break, and put up some numbers in all the stat categories… He’s a young, athletic big man.
But here is my gripe with all of this Randolph talk…
1. His offensive game comes in the paint and his mid-range game is terrible. HE IS A FORWARD THAT CANNOT STRETCH THE FLOOR.
2. HE IS A FORWARD! That is the only position where we have an OVERabundance of talent. GALLO, CHANDLER, HARRINGTON, JEFFRIES, HILL, LEE(his natural position). Even assuming that only Gallo & Hill are here next year, what max free agents are we hoping for next year? Lebron, Amare, Bosh, Joe Johnson… All but Johnson(even though he moonlights at the SF spot sometimes) are FORWARDS…. So why bring Randolph into a situation where we are forward heavy, and possibly getting even heavier??
3. STOP SAYING CHANDLER FOR RANDOLPH. Everyone has been down on Chandler this season because he’s been settling for jumpers and hasn’t been driving to the basket… Well folks, lately I have seen a whole lot of the Chandler that I watched have a break out season last year. And you know what it comes down to? The kid just came off of surgery… A surgery which basically took up his entire summer. The time when young players usually work on improving their game for the next season. So there was no shooting drills to help make his 3point shot more consistent. No back to the basket drills to work on his paint game. There were no ball handling drills so he can create for himself. It was all just about rehab. He got off to a slow start because he didint have the benefit of an offseason. But look at him now. He’s got his explosiveness back. And he’s defending well. And he’s been clutch down the stretch. Most of all, he’s a good kid. In a league where every made shot seems to warrent a touchdown dance, it’s refreshing to see a guy like Chandler.
4. Randolph is 20 years old and already thinks his shit doesnt stink because he’s the summer league sensation. I know Nellie has a history of disgruntled basketball players, but let’s look at some of them… Al Harrington (who i think is making a great effort to re-arrange his attitude this year) who took two games out of our hands last year for hanging on the rim in celebration. And Stephen Jackson… no example necessary for him. So you tell me, is it Nellie? Or is there a possibility that he might just have a low tolerance for knuckleheaded players?
I know people are going to argue that he is only 20 years old. His game is gonna mature. But i’m not buyin’ it. Let him mature in Golden State. If we’re making a trade, especially one that sends away Chandler, I want to see a point guard or a shot blocker because thats what we need.
That made 100% sense, except I would not consider trading Chandler. He is becoming the prototype small NBA forward, his game is thrilling at times and his next contract should be affordable.
Wilson Chandler’s ceiling is an NBA role player. While you might want to keep him, dealing him for Randolph (and gaining an extra year of Randolph’s rookie contract) would be the obvious play.
Sadly, Don Nelson doesn’t think like you…although we could hire you to go meet him at a bar and convince him of Chandler’s prowess.
Yep, Wilson’s role is and will be as a starting small forward who shoots well, runs well, passes well, defends well and blocks shots well. That’s his ceiling. Not much of a ceiling.
Geesh…….
How about this trade: Nate Robinson and cash to Orlando for J.J. Reddick?
Nate can provide that spark off the bench for Orlando and we know that Dwight Howard would welcome his buddy Krypto-Nate there. For the Knicks, we get a good shooter in Mike D’Antoni’s offfense…not to mention his contract ends at the end of the year as well.
Reddick is playing very well. Why would ORL get rid of him and gamble on N8? So he can tug on Superman’s cape? Knix need a PG, not another outside shooter.
This is one reason I am turned off to the NBA and no longer find it a source of entertainment.
It’s all about money, contracts this crazy convoluted cap system were contracts and money mean more then trading the players themselves.
The NBA would be much better if they chucked the whole system and started over. Make it easier to trade players so teams can get the players that would really help them. It would make each team better, the players happier and the product being out there more enjoyable to watch. Too many teams with mismatched players who cannot be traded.
Look what happened with the give aways so that the Celtic and Lakers could win championships, that was terrible. Worse than baseball with the Yankees and Redsox who buy their championships all the time. Except for the 1990′s when the Yankees won with their core of home grown talent.
I like Nate as a person not a player. For this whole mess to happen is a blight on the NBA, the Knicks and our society in general. The way of the corporate mentality who shows nothing but disrespect to their people. Yeah Nate was given a chance and blew it but there was a better way to handle it as there was with Marbury. So far I do not like the way the Knicks have handled many situations. It has turned me off and I don’t even want to watch them at this point. Isiah was bad and these guys aren’t much better. At least Isiah protected his players from this type of treatment. he was a players coach and GM. These guys are coming off like corporate slugs.
In all honesty they knew what they were getting with Nate, why did they bother signing him. He is who he is and you have taken a fun loving guy and are on the verge of destroying the guys self-esteem. What about humanity, what happened to taking into consideration the human condition. To me D’Antoni is not coming off as the NICE guy he was supposed to be, he’s looking more and more like a phony and a scumbag. I’m sure this is not getting by other players and they have seen what went on here with Marbury, Nate and some other players. It would make me hesitate to sign here now. I would really have to think much more on it than before if I were a free agent, could it happen to me. Could these guys have it in for me and ruin my career for whatever reason?
In retrospect this could have all been avoided had they NOT resigned Nate and looked elsewhere for a serviceable PG and SG to fill out the roster for a year.
Do these guys really have a plan and know what they are doing? So far I would say no. Let’s see next year, but I do not have a good feeling and my gut tells me that they will both be gone in 2 more seasons and we will have to start over again in 2013. At least we will have 3-5 years of lottery picks NOT traded. So maybe by 2018 or so the Knicks will finally be competitive team, I hope I’m still alive to see it.
Sorry for the negativity but I calls it as I sees it.
you are 100% right about about everything you said.. its crazy how money can destroy the fun in everything…mike dantoni was the wrong coach the knicks.. he too fake, no real emotions, stubborn and not really good.i want to see, who is gona come to knicks 2010.. its gona be the big mess.. so big it will cover up isiah thomas..
Sorry for this being out of place, but given the recent hoopla about Hill not playing enough vs. conditioning himself for the center position, I felt it needs to be posted. While I am still all for his dedication to conditoning himself, because he will probably need to log in some substantial amount of minutes with the amount of players we will be losing (I’m not counting in hypothetical trades or free agents of 2010), maybe he could use some more minutes to chip in. My biggest fear is he’s unprepared and either gets injured or pulls a Chris Duhon breakdown. Anyway, here is the piece:
“Using RealGM Executive Editor Christopher Reina’s innovative FIC scoring system, I’ve ranked the rookies in terms of FIC per 40 minutes. Some of the names at the top of the list might surprise you, but the big guns are still present.
…
2. Jordan Hill, New York – 3.8 points, 2.2 rebounds and 15.4 FIC per 40
Hill just made the cut, having appeared in ten games this season, but none since Dec. 2 when he logged 10 minutes in a double-digit loss to the Magic. He has been storing up energy on the bench though. He had 10 points and three rebounds in just 15 minutes against Golden State in mid-November.”