Walsh Willing To Buy Out N8?

Another waste of talent.

I couldn’t care less about Stephon Marbury but Nate Robinson is a talented young player – the fact that the Knicks might have to buy him out and lose him for nothing is ridiculous in my opinion.

How many talented guards will the Knicks ignore? Maybe Mike D’Antoni and Don Nelson are actually trying to see which formula is more succesful : 5 guards or 5 forwards in the starting line-up?

I would love to see Nate Robinson play for the Celtics or the Lakers, I think he’ll have a succesful career in the NBA. I just don’t want to see him play for the Cavaliers. That’s it.

Its crazy because he has been benched for 8 games and the only reason we are talking Buy Out is because his agent is being dumb about it.

Well not really Contract year means he has to play. So nevermind his agent pushing for PT is justified but the overreaction to it isn’t…

I am 100 percent for giving Nate another chance… I will be disgusted if we lose nate for nothing. nate is wayyyy too talented to either not use or not get something of value in return. i was a the game yesterday and when the bulls made their run, thats exactly when we need nate in the game. if you want to discuss nates poor defense, well chris duhon was getting torn apart by rose, couldnt get much worse than that in the 3rd… nate loves the city of ny and the fans love him, give him another chance, i love mike but hes being too stubborn here.

100% true.

Its all about Chemistry and the current Rotation is winning we just cant insert Nate here and expect the same results.

If Nate had played in the Bulls’ game we would NOT have built a lead and, if he played at crunch time, we WOULD have lost due to his bullsh*t shot selection and p*ss-poor defense.

Good riddance, N8!

N8 is a side-show act who should only be let off an NBA bench for dunk competitions (that he never should have won anyway!).

And if I hear one more “fan-favorite” compliment attributed to N8, I’m gonna lose it! The only people who should be rooting for N8 and his crap-tastic game are midgets and children – who are all taller than him!

Good riddance!

I’m with you as far not wanting him to go to the cavs, but I’d be happy if he goes anywhere else. However, if we buy him out I guess that’s up to him.
IMO nate should take any offer from us that is close to his QO last summer. He’s in a bind here too and even though I do like the guy, I don’t think he is 100% innocent when it comes to this situation either. He did not earn his current contract and he should take anything over 2 million to get a chance to play for his next one. Nate should learn from marbury, it’s a lot easier for the knicks to wait this out than it is for him. They are doing nate a favor if they buy him out for less, even if it doesn’t seem so at the time.

Actually, only 50% true: half of Knicks’ fans couldn’t care less about N8 and his bullsh*t…

I’m not against Mike D’Antoni’s decision to bench Nate Robinson and I like out current rotation.

But dino has a point, Rose was torching Duhon in the 3rd quarter and the Knicks couldn’t score (thank God we had David Lee)… I think Nate could have helped, the Knicks were playing with 0 energy and they couldn’t get buckets. The Knicks (Duhon in particular) couldn’t stop the bleeding, you can’t tell me that Nate Robinson couldn’t have played 5 minutes in the 2nd half.

Which is why I believe that the reason behind Mike D’Antoni’s decison is personal.

I’m pissed that N8 doesn’t seem to have the brains to stay on the team he wants to be on by playing disciplined ball like the coach wants. If he can’t do it here, how will he get regular minutes for another coach? I’d love to see N8 play under control doing what D’A wants and stop the clowning before and during games because he’s one of the top athletes in the league and can be killer in the 4th quarter with his high energy and scoring sprees. What a shame he can’t seem to grow up and stay focused for 25 minutes per game.

how do you know that Nate wouldnt have made 5 stupid turnovers if he were in,and we could have lost the game?

that isnt the point. the point was duhon was getting torched in the 3rd quarter when guarding rose; jeffries cannot play 48 minutes a game. btw i cannot believe i am saying this but jared jeffries is essential to this teams success. so, if your going to get dominated by rose no matter what, id much rather have nate, his energy, and his offensive than duhon, who quite frankly if he keeps playing all of these minutes like last year HE WILL BREAK DOWN AGAIN! (sorry just wanted to make my point clear). duhon isn’t some super freak of an athlete, he isnt in phenomenal shape, to expect him to play all of these minutes and to continue to play at his highest potential come the second of the season is iddiotic.

I Cant Comment on what could of happened because no one knows what could of happened but in order to stop the bleeding some defense would of had to be played and Nate and Duhon play the same amount of defense..
So most likely Nate would of made the bleeding more entertaining.

Mucha; maybe we could have used nate for 5 mintues in the second half, but he’s clearly out of here and i think they just want to move on with out him… Clearly we aren’t missing him.

You can say Duhon was getting burnt by rose but everyone gets burnt by rose; rondo get’s burnt by rose. At least duhon tries to play the right way and knows how to set up the offense.

It’s true, we seem to be passing up on talented guards, but i think that is because the coach is very picky about the types of guards he plays, particularly at the 1. Apparently he would rather have a sub-par talent who understands the offense and can be an extension of the coach on the floor, than a guy like nate who is much better talent-wise, but really has no idea what he’s doing.

IMO its for the best for the Knicks and N8 to do a buyout. The fiasco with Marbury and the long dragged out buyout/trade thoughts made for a very depressing season. It sure doesnt look good on the Knicks either. One time doing the exile on the bench thing is one thing if you do it twice in back to back years then it looks bad to other NBA players. Me I am not a N8 fan i beleive he wants it to be about him and he looks at himself as one of the elite players in the NBA when he is obviously not. But there is 50% of the Knick fans that come to the games nowadays who want to be entertained with no care about winning and then their is the die hards who could care less about flash and entertainment and want wins and the building blocks towards a championship team in the near future. Its hard if you are Knick management and you dont have anybody marketable and if the rumors are true that Mike D and Dolan didnt want N8 back and Donnie did it anyway its on him and nobody else. Why sign someone who has been a pain in the butt since he has been here? But I dont feel the N8 bashing is warranted becuase we have Al Harrington who does alot of the same things N8 does in the game with the posing after shots made and the such but its ok when it comes to him and not N8? That dont make any sense.

Nate could be used in a number of deals Donnie needs to do his homework.

TMac
for
Nate
Hughes/Harrington
Darko/Jefferies

Kenny Thomas (S-Rod can be thrown numbers still work)
for
Nate
Jefferies

Bayless (abt 2.3mil in the 2010 fund)
Howard (abt 850k expiring)
for
Nate

3 deals that work he should be traded.

“The other roadblock is cap mathematics, as Robinson is a “base-year compensation” player, meaning despite his $4 million contract, the Knicks can only accept back a player whose contract is $2.6 million. If both teams are over the cap, a deal is not possible because the salaries must match. A third team would have to be involved.” – Berman

Does he get paid to say this crap.

Here are some deals i came up with.

Nate/Mobley/Al/Eddy/Ollie to Houston
Mcgrady/Cook to NY
Dorsey to Oklahoma City

Nate/Jeffries to Sac
K Thomas to NY

Nate/Jeffries to Clippers
Camby to NY

Nate to Miami
Chalmers/$4M trade Exception to NY

Nate/Jeffries to Orlando
Reddick/Foyle/$6M trade exception to NY

Nate/Jeffries/Hill to GS
Randolph/Claxton/George/Wright to NY

Haywood/Steveson/Foye/James to NY
Nate/Hughes/Jeffries to Wash

Al is slightly better than nate and showboats a little less, but I can see where you are coming from

I think nate’s benching had more to do with the way he was playing than the poses and such. But the showboating certainly didn’t help his cause.

Deals only work if the other team agrees

Deals only work if the other teams agree, and Nate agrees.

“Donnie needs to do his homeword.” yea, he’s a GM in the league but doesn’t know who is on the other teams and forgot to look into that. He hasn’t thought about that; good point.

Obviously “he should be traded,” the problem is that maybe he can’t be.

Its Strange that you think i need u to tell me that

Like Ive said countless times.. This will come down to a buy out.. Simple as that.. Nate can control his destiny through his no trade \

Plus he has zero value now that the coach has basically called him a pariah and said he would rather play Satan than Nate.

Cuit a deal and move on.. THen the coach and DW can look like idiots when Nate is bringing energy off hte bench to a playoff team in another town.

There is one team, above all others, that Nate would be perfect for: the Harlem Globetrotters. I mean, really — Sideshow Nate would be ideal for them. He’s got everything they are looking for. Appeal to uneducated fans and small children? Check. Circus shot skills and mentality? Check. Lack of any interest/ability to play real defense? Check. Behavior that makes it seem like it’s party time all the time? Check mate!

Do they have a good point guard that we could use? I’m going to check out their roster now…

If hes talking about buying out Nate he hasn’t tried hard enough to move him .

nate will be bought out friday.

an then sign with the magic
or the cavs

nate for sessions.lol

findout if they need a coach also.

Bob has a point. No reason to believe Nate could do nothing but help stop he bleeding. He could have exacerbated it just as easily. D’s rotation has been successful recently, so I see no reason to change the formula until it’s no longer successful.

I like Nate and believe he has talent that will eventually find a fit. I wish it were here, but he hasn’t proven he can do whatever it is that D’Antoni is expecting if him.

You can’t trade nothing for something.

Robinson will have a career in the NBA but i doubt it will be half of what people here think it can be…but who knows? It is true with all professional athletes…a good fit in the right organization can launch/save a career and a bad fit can kill a career. He clearly doesn’t fit here, (he hasn’t fit for 3 different coaches) so try and trade him if you can, maybe buy him out if there’s a free agent we can snatch up…but mostly can we quit hand wringing over this guy? He is not worth the ink spilled or the keyboards pounded. Not by a long shot.

Yes!

Surprisingly, he did his research on this one.

I actually resent the guy for allowing his agent to start a mini controversy by publicly requesting a trade…team first my ass.

so sayeth the peanut gallery!

correct

lmao

I’m surprised that nobody has taken issue with the reference to Nate being a problem child.

He is anything but a problem child and to wrap up him in Marbury’s blanket is irresponsible.

Nate has acted very professionally. Give him credit for that. He may or may not be a poor fit, but he is far from being a cancer.

The contrast to Marbury is glaring. Too bad the author missed that.

This whole D’Antoni killed Nates value is ridiculously overly simplistic and short sighted. It completely ignores Nate’s erratic career and history with his OTHER coaches. His streaky shooting, shot selection, passing, sub-standard defense, AND diminutive stature (the frigin guy is a 5′ 7″ NBA player…see many of those? me either) To top off that cake you have his obvious immaturity and brilliant summer tweeting about the NYPD.

I mean seriously, people just see what they want to see and blame whoever is closest. No rhyme or reason.

And yet it’s strange that you say Donnie needs to do his homework like he doesn’t know this and that the other teams would automatically accept these trades, which I’m fairly confident none would

Nate will be bought out because no team wanted him this past summer and no team wants him now. Makes no sense that Walsh would not trade Nate if he could. Nate has talent but he is not in the Knicks present or future. Hopefully he will take this situation to heart and have a successful career.

Hmm. Agree, he is certainly not a team cancer and up until about a few days ago I would have completely agreed with your post up until the point that his agent went public and poured a few gallons of gas on this media fire. How do you reconcile that?

i certainly wouldnt put Nate in for defensive purposes.for that isd use douglass

He’ll be as valuable as Marbury was with the Celtics and we saw how Steph disappeared when the games counted.

I imagine N8 would be just as useless to a contender that is already past the bullsh*t we’re still dealing with because of jerk-0ffs like N8.

Pay him off, trade him or bannish him – whatever gets him gone and us to stop posting about him. He’s a worthless piece of midget crap.

Did you read your own question?

His agent is doing what he is paid to do; protect the best interests of his client. Nate’s value is diminishing by the day. That is why we are talking buy out.

Nate, for his part, has acted admirably. He could have gone Marbury but chose to cheer his teammates from the bench, in spite the uncomfortable position he finds himself in. He has not gone to the press and badmouthed anybody.

It’s a gamble that didn’t work out — a poor fit as it stands. This should not be viewed as a condemnation of Nate or the administration. His talent alone made the gamble worth taking.

On another note,

By Bill Eichenberger

After starting the season 1-9, Coach Mike D’Antoni said he is thrilled to take an 11-17 record into the Knicks’ Christmas Day game against the Heat at Madison Square Garden.
Much has changed since that slow start, from the benching of Nate Robinson to the addition of forward Jonathan Bender. But D’Antoni, whose teams in Phoenix and New York have been criticized for their lack of defensive intensity, said an improvement on that end of the floor has been most responsible for the Knicks’ three-game winning streak and eight victories in their last 11 games.

“The biggest thing is, I think we have more confidence now that we can stop the other team,” he said after Tuesday’s 88-81 victory over the Bulls. “That was not the case last year. We would lose all kinds of games down the stretch.”

The insertion of 6-10 swingman Jared Jeffries into the starting lineup has been one key. He’s a work in progress on offense but is a shutdown defender who has the quickness and agility to cover point guards. “He’s really solidified our defense,” D’Antoni said.

And Jeffries, 6-10 small forward Danilo Gallinari and Bender, an agile 7-footer, are all able to block shots, throwing another obstacle in the opposing team’s path. “We are better now because of our length,” D’Antoni said. “I think that’s the reason we’ve been able to finish off games.”

Even 6-9 center David Lee, who was viewed by many as a defensive liability before this season, has become a better defender. “He’s not a shot blocker,” D’Antoni said. “He’s not long, but his one-on-one defense is pretty good.”

WOW

Gawd you are most knowledgable,so please ,GET SESSIONS FOR NATE! LOL

Professionals don’t have their agents whine to the media for them. Professionals do what their bosses/coaches tell them to do to improve themselves so they can be paid for high performance. Professionals don’t show up the others or their teammates.

N8 is not a professional. He is a midget side-show act whose time is up. Send out the clowns…

I saw nate going into DUANE-REED with a spoon,asking the man behind the counter for a large jar of VASELINE

nate and jeffries for outlaw and miller…hampered by miller’s contract for ’10 but can turn down ’11′s option…and we’d have a bonafide PG who can play alot of minutes for the ‘Superstar’ we’ll sign

Can people stop with this ridiculous Marc Berman notion that Dantoni compared Robinson to Satan?? That is completely ridiculous and just takes his words and answer completely out of context. All he said was that there was no such thing as personal considerations for a coach, he would play Satan if he could help him win. Clearly, Nate Robinson is not Satan, as he is not playing because he doesn’t help them win. Im not sure where I fall on this issue, because I do think there are some personal problems playign a role in Dantonis decision, but just stop using this ridiculous quote as if it is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with anything.

I believe Nate wants to be a team player, he just lacks the vision and discipline to make it happen. I’ve seen no indication, off the court , that he wants to have the spotlight solely on him. His selfish play is the product of bad habits and a reliance on instincts that are, more often than not, poor.

Ditto for Harrington.

In Donnie We Trust!!

Bob:
You’ve hit on a point that many fans who make these trade proposals don’t want to hear. That the other gms are looking to better there own team, and not asking the question “What can I do to help the Knicks”.

bartnyk:

Call Donnie and offer your services to him. I’m sure Donnie would appreciate your imput and give you carte blanche to make it happen!

Where did i say teams have to accept any of these deals they are options instead of buying him out for nothing.

Your problem is you devalue Nate and you must think hes worth nothing to a team.

the problem is that this is a personal issue.

period

If he says “If both teams are over the cap, a deal is not possible because the salaries must match.” he obviously didnt.

Well clearly not period. Look at their record.

talk about over simplification.

I understand complaints about personal issues when watching both Bull games, when they needed scoring and Duhon was getting torched on defense anyway. But to dismiss this whole thing as a personal issue is just plain wrong. They are 8-3 in their past 11 games, and are now well above 500. in games where Nate is not playing at all this year. Those numbers just can’t be argued with.

if ANY PLAYER is playing 20-25 minutes a nite at a sixth man of the year level then that player has more value than being benched and called a loser by the coach.

Is that simplistic enough for you.

If you would like to see Nate bought out for nothing that’s your preference I wouldn’t, I would like to see the team get something back for him because he is a great scorer and a talented player.

So Biggie, explain those numbers for me then. If you can reasonably explain those numbers and damning statistics against Nate, then I will agree with you. I have yet to hear any explanation for it, other than the obvious one that their defense has improved dramatically(which it has since he has gone out of the rotation) and the guards who are playing instead of him more minutes(Duhon and Hughes) are both playing much much better due to their increased minutes. Just explain why these things don’t matter to you?

Im patiently waiting Donnie. Make a move!

Let’s start with the obvious stuff: The Thunder used their strong cap position to purloin a promising young point guard. Maynor has played reasonably well for Utah in his first season and the next year of his deal, at $1.4 million, barely dents the Thunder’s projected cap space for next summer. He fills a clear need as well. Oklahoma City desperately needed a pass-first point guard to back up Russell Westbrook and to occasionally play with him in small backcourts, especially with Shaun Livingston not working out. Maynor doesn’t offer great upside, but he’s going to be solid for several years.

Additionally, some subtle aspects of this deal make it particularly juicy for the Thunder. Harpring makes $6.5 million this year, but Oklahoma City is on the hook for only $1.78 million while insurance will cover the rest. And since Harpring has an expiring contract, the deal won’t cut into their projected $10 million-plus in cap space next summer. Finally, the Thunder can trade Harpring again if they so choose, either alone or as part of a package: Teams under the cap aren’t bound by the league’s two-month rule on re-packaging acquired players.

Utah effectively donated Maynor to Oklahoma City because of the mind-boggling financial savings. The Jazz retain more than $10.46 million by removing $7.8 million in luxury tax payments, another $884,452 for Maynor’s salary the rest of this year, and $1.78 million in payments to Harpring that wouldn’t have been covered by insurance. The trade also opens the door for the Jazz to eventually slip under the luxury tax threshold entirely — they’re now only $4.8 million over. More on that in a minute.

Utah acquired the rights to German forward Peter Fehse in this trade, but he has no chance of ever playing in the NBA. He’s only in the deal because league rules require both teams to receive something in a trade, and this was the least valuable asset the Thunder found in the recesses of their cupboards. In another bit of housekeeping, Utah will need to sign a 13th player at some point in the next two weeks to meet league roster rules.

The big question for Jazz fans, however, is whether this portends a trade of Carlos Boozer. The Jazz could conceivably slide all the way under the tax line by trading Boozer and receiving a player or players with non-guaranteed contracts, especially if Utah includes Kyle Korver’s expiring contract in the swap.

To offer one such example (this is NOT a rumor, mind you, just an example), Utah could send Boozer, Korver, and C.J. Miles to Dallas for Drew Gooden, Erick Dampier, Rodrigue Beaubois and a 2012 first-rounder; the deal would save $3.5 million in salaries and another $2.6 million by cutting Gooden prior to Jan. 8, putting the Jazz under the tax threshold.

Another more plausible way is to deal Boozer or Boozer with Korver to get most of the way under the tax, and then pay a team to take Ronnie Price or Miles into a trade exception to finish the job. The point is that the Jazz now have paths available to avoid the luxury tax, something that seemed a long shot prior to the Maynor trade.

For other teams looking to dump salary, however, this deal is terrible news. Only a few doors remain open for dumping salary, and one of them just slammed shut. While opportunities remain available — witness my Boozer example above — the likes of Washington and New Orleans have to be disappointed that the Oklahoma City option is off the table.

That they took it off the table this early, prior to most of the serious horse-trading beginning, says something about the quality of the deal dangled before them. Boozer’s opt-in proved costly for Utah, depriving the Jazz of Maynor’s services while further strengthening a potent division rival. Meanwhile, Oklahoma City’s inexorable rise continues apace — today the Thunder nabbed a good young point guard, and because of the insurance provisions, they got him for peanuts.

Yeesh!!

MrFurious:

Your points are true and well taken. Still, D’Antoni’s hard stand and harsh statements about Nate have poked holes in a sinking ship.

I like both parties and believe they both will have success going forward. However, they have been working in concert to sabotage his value.

Neither is without blame.

why dont u want him on the Cavs? If he is a loser and cant add anything then you (or any one else) should not care where he goes.

What question

So many ppl hate Nate Robinson that they can’t see what a talent he is its a shame.

There is a great article on Hoopsworld looking at potential Nate Robinson trades, though Im not sure I agree with all of them. Here is the link:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14762

Douglas doesnt play either

that is a HORRIBLE arguement. The quality of teams we have been beating is much worse than the teams we lost two first off. Second of all, everyone is starting to come around where in the beginning of the years guys like wilson chandler was coming off on an ankle surgery and did have the pep in his step that he now has or atleast it seems like he has back. i really think the fact that we arent playing against the likes of cleavland and orlando and were playing teams that we match up well against talent wise like the bobcats and bulls along with the fact that everyone is starting to gel is the main reason for our recent surge…… NOT the loss of Nate Robinson.

Two of those trades do have the Knicks getting Joe Alexander though, which I think would be a great move then.

Biggie… the coach never said he would rather play satan than nate. he said he just wants to play whoever he thinks can help the team win, and that he would play anybody to help the team win; even satan, if he could help.

I don’t think he was actually saying satan could help the team win.

His point was that he doesn’t think nate is conducive to winning. Anyone he thinks will help us to win, he is going to play.

You claiming he said he would rather play satan than nate is completely twisted and fabricated.

Wait, so Dino are you arguing that everyone else is coming around but that somehow has nothing to do with Nate leaving. Seems like an odd coincidence to me. Also, don’t go with that terrible we are playing bad teams argument. That is truly a horrible argument, as the Knicks have never in the past 4 years beat what we see as worse teams. That argument makes no sense, we have always sucked an now we are beating most teams as our December record of 8-3 would illustrate. So again, if your only argument is that we are not playing good teams, then you should probably reevaluate that, as we have never beat good teams.

at least credit John Hollinger if you are going to copy/paste his article..

we have copyright laws in the US.

Sorry meant to say bad teams at the end there.

he basically said satan could be more helpful than nate

Agreed. Nate hasn’t proven that he can stop anybody on defense, or even cares to. Many of his transgressions would probably be forgiven if he worked to be even half the defender that he could be, should be, given his speed and strength. We’ve seen no indication that he is willing to be that stopper.

Offensively, when he plays point he only sees Harrington and himself out there. When they are on, they are exciting, but the Knicks often lose. When they are off, as Harrington has been, they drive relentlessly, never pass except to each other, and leave three other players standing around flat-footed knowing they will rarely see the ball, let alone get a shot unless the clock is running out.

The only way these three players become involved offensively is to further screw up the system by trying to bring the ball up to keep it out of Nate’s hands and throw up a bad shot because if they pass the ball to him they’ll never get it back.

Donnie told us the truth in an interview about why Nate is benched. Don’t hold me to his exact words Biggie, but to paraphrase, this may be the first time that anybody has insisted that Nate play within the system or sit. He is a great athlete, and maybe too many of his coaches in the past have given up and said let Nate be Nate because they just couldn’t deal with him and on whatever level in the past, he was too talented for them to sit him.

I think that he has reached that level now, and that, in a way, Coach is good for him. Nate has to accept sometime soon that he can no longer get away with being a free spirit in organized ball. Fans pointing out that he isn’t doing anything that LeBron or Kobe isn’t doing is silly moral equivalency, rationalizing egalitarianism. He isn’t LBJ. He isn’t Kobe. He is a niche player who has to learn that he is not bigger than the team.

Let him sit. Don’t buy him out. It is a long season. As I have posted before, nobody in this organization will profit by losing. We have no 1st round pick. It will be bad enough if Utah has a lottery pick. It will be a killer if they have the most balls in the tumbler. When it comes down to winning or losing, if Nate can make the difference within the system, he will be in there.

No he didnt. Just putting words in his mouth. He never made any comparison between the 2.

wilson chandler isnt getting better because nate isnt in the lineup….. he is getting better because it takes time to come back and perfrom after having ankle surgery.

wilson is just an example to show how it is wrong to say it is nate’s fault so to say.

i still think because we have had a much easier schedule as of late, note when nate hasnt been in the lineup we havent played orlando, boston, or the cavs which compose of 4 of our losses, that is also a reason for our winning streak and not nate not being in the lineup.

apologies for my poor grammar.

If Satan would help them win he would play him.. The coach said it I didnt… He chose the words I didnt.

Do you disagree that there were times in the past 9 games that Nate could have been used to help the team win?

I know you have watched most if not all of the games in the past 2 weeks..

Using this 6 plus man rotation is ludicrous.. .Even last nite.. no points in the last 4 minuts of the game? why? cause they were dog tired from playing 6 deep all night..

Im not saying Nate should be getting 30 minutes a game.. Never have said that.. even last year.. I said 20 a nite is where he should be MAX..

Time will tell if Nate can help a team win.. When he lands on his next team we will all watch whether he everything the coach has made him out to be.

Mr. Furious:

Nate’s agent is concerned with Nate’s future, as he should be. Nate is playing for that future and cannot prove his worth from the bench. Hence his agent stepped in.

That the situation was already aflame is the real concern. Nate’s benching and D’Antoni’s words caught every gms attention. His agents words were a nonfactor. The job of a gm is to keep on top of these situations. Nothing Nate’s agent said should have been unexpected by them.

I don’t blame D’Antoni for Nate’s benching. Nate did that to himself. But D’Antoni’s character assassinations are befuddling and ill advised. That these statement didn’t elicit a harsher response is more the surprise.

Nate, for his part, could have blasted management or his coach or even teammates. He refrained from doing so. After being called Satan, that was a classy act. He countinues to show hs teammates support from the bench and has not sulked publicly.

After all that happened, Nate responded to his agents words by stating that he would prefer to play in NY, but he wants the opportunity to play somewhere. Not an unreasonable request. If anything, he prevented the fire from getting completely out of hand.

Marburyesque? I stand by my original statement. If his play showed that much maturity, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I made the same comment on a different blog about how reckless it has been to characterize N8 as a head case a la Marbury. It’s unfair and further brings down his trade value where teams will await his buyout rather than work a trade for his services. There is value in N8 and yet there are those who respond as if his antics make him a horrific and unskilled basketball player. It’s completely off base.

Not a defense, but pointing out an basketball axiom: Height makes up for many things.

Al is 6’9″ Nate is5’9″ That explains it all in a height-hungry sport.

IM comfortable with the statement that the play of the 6 men who are getting the LARGE majority of the minutes in the past two weeks has ZERO to do with NAte.

No he didnt… he said that IF satan was good at basketball he would play him, even though he is evil… Basically that is to say that he would play nate, EVEN IF HE DIDN”T LIKE HIM, if he was conducive to winning, but he’s not.

I think N8 might have his best future as a Harlem Globtrotter.I love N8 and wish the best for him hopefully he stays and becomes a player.But his size is a hugh disadvantage on defense ,but he gets his share of blocks if he wants to.I put the blame on N8 you have to listen to your coach,because he has four more guys he has to manage,let’s face it N8 is not a natural team player,he needs to focus more on both ends,I though he was progressing by not dunking on fast breaks he was cutting back I hate giving up on N8,this subject sucks.

How can any of you talk about Nates defense when David Lee is on this team its ridiculous, your starting center averages 0.9 blks per game. Nate and Lee are in the same boat good scorers that can’t defend there positions, but some of you have become blind to the fact that Lee plays NO DEFENSE and its been Jefferies, Gallo, and Chandler getting stops.

The coach hasn’t made him out to be anything. That is all you guys adding subtext to a simple benching that has seemed to work out well for them. Dantoni liked him a lot when he came here, saying things like he is a real gamechanger and should be averaging 3 steals a game easily. It hasn’t worked out here. Im sure if Nate ends up on the Celtics, Magic, or Lakers it will work out really well. If he ends on a bad team I don’t see him making them much better.

Yes if i were coach, i would have put another man in the rotation for some of those 2nd half minutes… I don’t disagree with that.

Although, i would put Tony in over Nate, at this point. I’m not saying i agree with the total 100% banishment from the rotation; it might be kind of harsh… but clearly the coach had a big problem with what nate was doing, and i guess they just want to move on without him. And since we are winning all these games, i’m not going to complain.

I was just pointing out that d’antoni didn’t compare him to satan, he was saying that his benching has nothing to do with his personality, because even if he had the personality of satan and hitler combined, he would still play him (if it was the right thing for the team.)

But you are right… when we only had 6 guys playing against the bulls last week.. maybe nate should have played… or maybe douglas should have just played more.

And although I feel that there is truth to D’Antoni’s ego and stubborness getting in the way of his decision making, I must say (begrudgingly) that he has stated that the reason why he hasn’t put N8 in games is for defensive purposes. I think the message is that N8 not only isn’t playing under control offensively, but he’s also a defensive liability thus hurting the team on both ends of the floor. People will argue that Duhon and Harrington are defensive liabilities too so make them accountable, but at the same time, they are playing within the system on the offensive end.

Overall, I feel like D’Antoni is being unreasonable with N8. If he feels that so strongly about N8 as a bad fit he should at the very least, not destroy his trade value for the team’s sake. Lead by example and put the team first.

The WA Generals need one, thats fer sure.

How can you guys truly try and argue this? We watched this team for a year and half now, and suddenly these 6 guys are playing their best basketball yet and the only different thing is Nate not playing? You can really be comfortable with claiming that? And the whole Chandler thing definitely has something to do with Nate. I remember a lot of commenters at the start of the year saying things like Chandler could benefit a lot from playing in a more structured system. I agree his explosiveness coming back has nothing to do with Nate, but now the system is much more structured with guys like Duhon and even Hughes playing pass first bball. Nate does not do that, everyone has seen that. I have agreed with you guys that these 2 chicago games and Bobcat games he could have been used a little, but the rotation is working out the best it has in years. Its really a tough argument to claim that this whole thing is personal when they are playing such good basketball.

um….

When Nate can start averaging over 10 assists per game the way Lee averages a doube double..then we’ll listen to this argument.
Until then..I have no problem with Nate and anybody else being benched if it’s for the better of our team.
Obviously the short rotation has helped us and not hurt us.

In Donnie We Trust!

Find me an example of Lee scoring while we are losing and then jumping around screaming and raising his arms to the crowd while his man scores a wide open layup.

Lee is an extremely hard worker, and tries on every moment of every possession. he is outmatched on defense when he is guarding centers, but he is constantly yelling out to his teamates so they know what’s going on around them and that so the flow of our defense (switches, doubles, etcc..) is finally in sync.

Comparing Lee to Nate is an absolute joke. They are complete opposites.

The only reason to defend nate is because it supports the view that D’Antoni is a fraud. We have all been complaining about him for years, but now somehow he is being wronged by not playing.

minutes wise, if you want to argue that they help the 6 guys who are getting nates minutes than fine. but come feb when we are trying to make a playoff run and CHRIS DUHON BREAKS DOWN, like last year because he is palying way too mcuh then come tell me how beneficial nates minutes were. nate robinson is a great talent, a great teammate, and perfect for the vity of new york, he understands his punishiment but everyone deseveres another chance.

Don’t even bring up DLee. People are starting to talk about him as a legit allstar candidate, and as Dantoni has said numerous times even though he doesn’t get blocks he plays decent man defense, something that Nate definitely does not do. Also, Im pretty sure Lee at center is averaging more assists than Nate at pg. Lee is also one of the best rebounders in the league. Nate does one thing and one thing only and that is score.

Nate has his problems and the Knicks are playing better without him but D’Antoni is not blameless here. The problem is he’s not being a good leader. He strung Marbury along, giving him pre-season minutes and promising him PT and them when the season starts he benches him (even to DW’s surprise). Marbury should have been dealt with before the season, that’s how professionals handle business.
D’Antoni hates Nate’s game and yet they don’t trade him during last season’s deadline and they resign him in the summer. Then he gets benched as if this behavior is a surprise to D’Antoni. There are better ways to deal with this, D’Antoni is the one who gave Nate key 4th quarter minutes with a perpetual green light to shoot. A coach is supposed to control him. Curtail his minutes until he makes better decisions, how do you go from 22 minutes per game to zero? Play him in the first half for 10 minutes until you can trust him in crunch time, pull him immediately when he screws up, anything but a full benching. I’m NOT a Nate fan at all, I think she should have been traded last season but why make a commitment to him and then chain him to the bench? Makes the organization look like they lack forward thinking.

Stating that nobody wanted Nate is erroneous. You don’t know that and not all conversations are reported. Remember, he did get a rather sizable offer from overseas and chose to take less money and security to play in NY.

Most teams were over the cap last summer and few free agents received offers. Those gms that could clear cap space in the near future were doing so, focused on 2010. Expiring contracts were more valuable than mid-level talent at a bargain.

Your last two sentences I agree with whole-heartedly.

You can compare them because are they are undersized that their positions and neither plays defense. Lee isn’t benched for his lack of defense or his BLOWN assignments down the stretch of games.

Nate has done things to piss Mike off period he gets under his skin its personal.

do you honestly think we lose last night’s game if nate were to play? come on man. if anything imo we beat them by more than 7, like we did….. duhon cannot go another season of not getting any rest. the guy isnt lebron james, he is not in phenomenal shape….. he is an avergae joe, who wil break down come feb., like last year. if you want to argue the team is playing better now ebcause nate isnt playing then theres one thing you really cant argue againt is the negative effects of all of these minutes being charged to guys like chris duhon bc nate is not playing.

When Nate get 40+ mins a night then get back to me with that question of 10 asst a game which are harder to get that rebounds if you really want to go there.

I agree with you Dino, come February Duhon will most likely break down. I have said Dantoni plays him way too many minutes, and would rather see him play Douglas a lot more. Sure, Nate is talented and seems happy to cheer on his teammates, which has really made me see him in a different light. But don’t try to make him out to be a great teammate or anything. This is the same guy who was screaming at Herb Williams in the middle of a game. This is the same guy who got in a water bottle fight on the bench last year(Im not sure if I actually blame him for that, as ZBO definitely played a part.) This is the same guy who got into a fight in practice with Malik Rose, one of the most respected vets, and Jerome James, a bum sure but a very nice guy by all accounts. This same guy is definitely not a great teammate, no way.

We all would like to see the Knicks get something/someone good for Nate, but the definition of a good deal is when each side walks away feeling they got the better of the other.

Bart, what you seem not to be hearing is that there needs to be two willing sides for any of your proposed deals.

There is no indication the other GMs want to deal at this point. A buy-out only makes it easier for Nate’s agent to grab another percentage of another contract. Let his agent get off his ass and find some other team that wants to deal for Nate. A deal that Walsh feels is worth developing.

Walsh is under no pressure to deal him. It is a long season. It is not unusual for a 4 million dollar low first round player to sit for extended time in this league. Every player thinks he is too good to sit. It is his agent and fanboys stirring sh!t, not Nate.

Maybe everybody should calm down and enjoy the positive changes the team is so recently enjoying.

Lee plays 40+ mins a night doesn’t defend at all this is common knowledge. If Nate played 40+mins for a coach that had confidence in him he would be one of the PGs in the east.

Marzak, we now have been through 4 coaches that can’t control Nate. Thats 4 different coaches. He came back because no body else made any offers, and the KNicks rightly figured that it was better to keep him for another year and hopefully he would either fit in the future or they could trade him for value. It was as simple as that. Dantoni gave Nate ample chances to prove himself, and Nate has pretty much failed to do that. Thats on Nate, not the coach.

His job is to get the most for him not to find the easiest way out of the situation, thats what he gets paid for.

Coach’s hard stand and seemingly harsh statements (I think yhe “Satan’ line was a throwaway line that he probably would like to take back) have been brought about by the constant questions and hectoring by the press and by blogs such as this.

His team is finally winning, playing within the game plan, and showing unit on the floor, but rather than being able totalk about that, every press confrence ends up being about Nate. Nate is not such a star that his situation should take pre-eminence over the team’s progress. No wonder he loses patience with the questions.

I never said he was a loser and couldn’t help anyone win. Don’t put words in my mouth. I know you don’t like it when people do that to you.
Personally I believe he can help another team and I believe he should be playing in the nba. The problem is that our coach does not believe nate fits into our system. I have to take his word for it. I don’t have any other information to disprove that point. Not wanting him on the cavs is my own selfish idea that I don’t want him to help lebron over there. Which I think is possible. You answered you own question btw..I obviously do think he can help a team just not ours

Dude you have to accept this situation and move on. We are having the best month we had in a long time and you can’t even enjoy it.

The improved play of th team is directly related to Duhon’s play.

if you look at the last 9 games objectively.. Those games that Duhon played well we have won.. When Duhon played poorly we lost..

That has ZERO to do with Nate.

100 percent agree

Lets stop this nonsense.. First off.. Im prety sure Nate has had THREE coaches in his NBA career.

Larry Brown — an unmitigated disaster in NYC. He did not care to control ANYONE on the team. His tenure as a coach as a complete laughing stock to this franchise. I would not take ANY relationships he had here as an example of ANYTHING>

Isaiah Thomas – Come on now. Ive NEVEr seen a coach mail in a season liek Zeke did. He literally didnt conduct any practices or even get off the bench to call out a play.. He was basically a dead man walking when he was a coach. He didnt want to control anyone.. Just protect his salary package.

the only people taking about him in as an all star are the paid MSG hacks and the fans.

If we are talking about Lee now anyone want to discuss Joakim Noah getting 21 boards last night?

nah.. why bother.. we won.

LOL they are NOT options if the other teams don’t agree

Trust me. Walsh’s first move will NOT be a simple buyout. Based off last year and last summer this will most likely be a slow and painful process for the knicks, nate and us. Have you followed walsh as a gm at all?

no.. you didnt say he was a loser.. My response was more broadly aimed at the larger audience that agrees with your post.. not directly at you..

Sorry for that..

I totally understand the situation here with the coach and Nate.. Im over it as far as him playing here.. couldnt care less really.. But advocate moving on with a buyout .. I was all about trading him at the deadline last year if you were reading back then.

Anything I or anyone else says doesnt affect the play or rooting for the team.. Its just blog comments..

I think the recent play is fools gold because of the short rotation but no one wants to address that.. So pass the Kool aid if they win X mas Day .. make it egg nog flavored please

It angered me too, Biggie. Didn’t know who he was quoting, but knew it wasn’t his words.

What’s your point, Capabana? Did you read the article that you plagiarized. We couldn’t get Mayner because OKC had the cap room and we don’t. Utah wanted cap relief, not Curry or JJ. We couldn’t trade to get cap relief because OKC wanted to steal a backup pg and not Curry or JJ.

Why did you choose Hollinger’s article which states that there are very few doors (teams with cap room) left open, that Utah was desperate to unload salary (far moreso than NY) and that OKC got a steal to tell Donnie to make a move. Did you want him to trade Gallo and JJ for Maynor (a guy with a limited upside) and cap relief?

produce the quote that d’antoni called nate a “loser’ or insinuated that. i believe you are making it up.

so if nate robinson is a potential sixth man of the nba then i would think he has tremendous value! falling out of favor with a coach is nothing new, certainly a 6th man level talent (at a bargain 1yr/4mil) is something numerous teams would line up to make an offer for, right? if he is so obviously valuable then a benching because he’s falling out favor with Mike “control freak, garbage offense, no D, can’t win the big one” d’antoni over the last 3 weeks should be no big deal at all.

i can’t wait for all those offers for nate to roll right in. i’m sure we’ll be hearing trade rumors in half the sports pages around the country any day now. right?

let’s all hold our breath.

Speak for yourself, sir.

Replace the “We” with “I”.

you’re joking right?

The coach said he can not win with Nate in the rotation. He has said it countless times.

Ive been posting for three days that Nate has no value right now.So those trades arent going to materialize..

you can breathe now.

You miss the point again. By getting Nate a buyout, it is easier for him to get Nate a new contract of which he gets a piece. Of course, it will be a minimum contract. Why would any team offer more when Nate already has been paid for the year by the Kincks.

A fifty percent buy-out would give Nate more than the minimum qulifying offer that Walsh could have given him. His agent has already been paid his percent based on the full amount. Not a bad deal for the agent.

Suppose after the buy-out, the onlly offer is a mimimum non-guaranteed offer? Is Nate in a better place? Because his fanbase thinks he’s worth all-that, it doesn’t mean that GMs throughout the league feel that way. Nate has been criticized by three coaches, two of whom are considered to be quality coaches by those who more about coaching than do the fans.

I want to make a correction, _avi_ Lee is averaging 0.4 blocks this season not 0.9, THAT would be great for him. He’s averaging 0.3 for his career. Maybe one day he’ll average HALF a block, I don’t think THAT’S too much to ask for a guy playing so many minutes in the frontcourt often as the last line of defense.

np man, I guess I’m a little extra sensitive because I really like nate. I always wanted lee and nate to be the two guys that were part of the future even though I knew it was unlikely. It would have been a great story though. Usually I am against buyouts, but in nate’s case I am for it and probably for all the wrong reasons. I hate seeing him on a bench, he should be playing somewhere (except for the cavs ). And he seems like a good guy to me even though he’s a knucklehead. We all know plenty of those right. I’ll miss watching him at the garden. He really is something to see live and up close. I’ll certainly go to the games when he plays against us. It’s really amazing how high he jumps even on jump shots.

And I love the egg nogg flavored kool aid joke. If we win thursday I’m grabbing a glass of egg nog, turning up Hypnotze and toasting the knicks peace biggie

“Lee is an extremely hard worker, and tries on every moment of every possession.”

Every offensive possession and once the ball is in the air on the defensive end. That’s it. I’d still like to see him on the floor battling for loose balls and getting more 50/50 balls (he’s doing better at the latter lately though).

Who’s the fourth coach? Wow. Just wow. Resume.

Dino, let’s agree that the schedule has something to do with it. Maybe it does, but last year the Knicks were losing to these weak teams.

Let us also agree that Chandler is getting his legs back, but his also getting the ball, and getting the ball earlier in the clock when he does get it, and getting the ball as part of a disciplined offense.

It could be said that it is hard for any player to get his game legs back by standing around watching Nate hold the ball until the clock is down to two seconds,and then watching Nate force it up or chuck it out for someone else to take a desparation heave and look like a brick artist. How does a player get his legs back standing around constantly on clear-outs so that Nate can go one on one or play the two man game with Harrington?
, but
The issue with Nate is notthat he lacks offense, but that his sticky fingers destroy the offense for others in a system which requires good shot distribution. Yes, Harrington is guilty of the same sins, maybe that is why they suit each other so well, but there are five men on the court not one or two.

Court discipline and distribution, along with defense has to be an unconscious habit. It has to be developed on court during games, and a soft part of the schedule is a good time to make it a habit in preparation for the tough teams. Nate hasn’t shown a willingness to get with the program. He has talked the talk only. It is not worth disrupting the program to amke a few fans happy that they wore their Nate jersey. Keep him, try him during garbagetime, winning or losing, and let the fans cheer if he plays in the system.

Yeesh, All I did was cop and paste for all of you guys benefit and I get bereted. Im not the coach or DW so calm down.

At this point, barring a trade for a young point guard with potential, Douglas should be getting the time behind Duhon. Nate is not a point guard at heart and is, better suited as a sixth man scoere . . if he does it within the system.

You clearly are the funnier of the disgruntled. Why why why? Listen dude, all I attempted to do was post some infromation for you guys to enjoy instead you want to disect my “motivation”. I thought this blog was about the Knicks not APA format and literrary discretion. Pardon me for nor participating in the hate and crystal balls stuff. Yeesh!!

Last season Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley said that David Lee would be an All-Star if he had a great season again. Everybody knows that Lee’s a legitimate All-Star candidate.

The fact is, both Lee and Noah got 21 rebounds but Noah is bigger. This argument is pointless Big.

I agree ds2488, this is on Nate. All I’m saying is that this situation, like Marbury’s, could/should have been handled better. I’d like to think that DW and DA are better than this. You can’t just bail on a bad situation; cut his minutes, let him score a few points and ship him outta here. He’s no worse than he was last year, they should have straightened him out after that Will Ferrel game last season. He doesn’t pull that act with solid leadership in the organization, unfortunately there are no veterans on the team that can talk to him. A guy like Oakley on the bench nips that in the bud…. Not saying that Nate’s worth the trouble though.

Wow you clearly did not understand my point itzgung

Duhon couldn’t stop the bleeding, obviously Nate wouldn’t have helped in that department (defense).

But the Knicks couldn’t score, and Duhon was not playing well offensively. Nate Robinson would have brought some energy (the Knicks played like zombies in the 3rd quarter) and some creativity to help us maintain the lead. We just needed to get buckets.

Apparently some of you didn’t understand what I was trying to say when I said :

“I think Nate could have helped, the Knicks were playing with 0 energy and they couldn’t get buckets. The Knicks (Duhon in particular) COULDN’T STOP THE BLEEDING, you can’t tell me that Nate Robinson couldn’t have played 5 minutes in the 2nd half”

Let me explain :

Nate Robinson would have been a liability on the defensive end as usual but Chris Duhon was getting torched by Derrick Rose in the 3rd quarter anyways – he couldn’t stop the bleeding his D was just awful. Which means that Nate Robinson wouldn’t have made a difference (good or BAD) defensively.

Now the Knicks couldn’t score, they played with 0 energy and they needed to find ways to get buckets. You can’t tell that Robinson – who plays hard and is creative with the ball – wouldn’t have helped. Nate Robinson should have been on the floor at one point in the 3rd quarter.

I don’t like the way D’antoni handled this either. The jokes as the satan comments were ridiculous. No comment would have been more appropriate. Does he know that he can do that? Maybe someone can also let him know about giving fouls at the end of a close game when you have fouls to give…please

he has his flaws too, people should remind him of that sometimes

Walsh, isn’t that your job?

No, that is your interpretive inference based on your cynicism and negativity towards everything the Knicks do.

It was a throwaway line from a guy who likes to shoot from the lip with a quick quip.I guess you’ve spoken first and thought second and said something that you’d like to take back.

I know that I have, and at some important moments of my life, but haters give anybody the benefit of the doubt.

Biggie, that isn’t accurate. Noah was highly inefficient, I think he was at 30% for the night from the field. David was far more accurate, matched Noah in rebounds and, for all intents and purposes also hit the game winner.

Don’t get me wrong Joakim is a player, but DLee did very well himself. It’s his efficiency as a player that makes him valuable and a possible All-Star candidate.

I’m not sure what your basketball experience is, but coaches play to win. If Coach felt that playing Nate would results in more wins, and Nate would play within the system, Nate would be in there. Again, it is a long season.

I’ve never known a successful coach who would allow personal feelings to keep him or her from winning. He is respected as a successful coach around the league by management, coaches, and players. Yet, because some of you have decided that he is a bum, you jump on every parsed word, every perceived slight to a player, and minimize every success. We all, me included, complained about his rotation and his offense and defense.

He adjusted all of those factors with some success, and now you complain about his choice players. It is one thing to have some criticisms. It is another thing to continuously negatively harp on a single issue while ignoring the recent successes. You and others were complaining about the losing and now you and others are complaining about winning because he doesn’t use the player you want him to use.

It is basketball season all around the country, I sometimes wonder why so many of you aren’t on a court or on the sideline given the expertise here. I know why I’m not,; I’m a semi-disabled geezer who has had his time, but I don’t think myself an expert, just too long-winded. But then, you don’t have to read my posts, do you?