How Keeping Jeffries Can Work Out Well For Both Sides…

Agree Chris. Would be great to keep Jeffries under the circumstances you propose. Wonder if we could get some local sponsors to pitch in by making Jeffries a spokesman if he stays with the team.

Makes sense. I for one think there is ZERO chance that he opts out and here is why.

- At the end of his current deal JJ will be 29 and in the “prime” (I can’t believe I just wrote that) of his career. He is going to have 6.8 mil in his pocket. Do you think he can’t get a 3 year deal for half of some teams mid level??? I think he can. That would beat your proposal.

- You gotta remember professional athletes are all about the mighty dollar. He is not going to leave a penny for staying with a system that suits his defensive skills.

Let’s say he makes 6.8 next year. Then let’s say he signs a 2 year deal worth 6 million, or more than the veteran’s minimum.

That is 12.8 million over the next three years.

Let say the Knicks give him a 3 year deal worth 12 million, with an escalating salary.

Does he lose that much?

Otherwise I hear your point.

Yes he would. 250,000 to us looking at him making 6.8m might not be much but like I said, he is not leaving that on the table.

Don’t forget that the team making that offer might be SA, DAL, PHX or any other contender.

Chris,

Great point that I’ve thought about awhile. I would love for him to stay at a reduced rate. He would probably get no more than $2 million per on the market in a few years. If he opts out, the Knicks could sign him to a 4 year, $13 million deal.

This would be the same total amount if he kept his option and got a 3 year $6 million deal. The average would be $3.25 million, thereby saving the Knicks another $3.5 million next year. If they can save another $2 million by buying Curry out, that’s an extra $5.5 million for next year.

Hope you’re right.

JJ would be a nice defensive stopper at 3 years for 12 mil or cheaper.

And if he ever does improve his offensive game that would be gravy.

Doubt he’ll decline that PO though.

Hope you’re right.

Well if he opts out and gets a deal better than what the Knicks would offer, then he can sign it. But no team, not even the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, etc would give him more than that. There is a reason that Walsh has not been able to trade him for any value yet. That is because he is not worth his coin.

A move can save the Knicks about 3 million in the market this summer. Perhaps Raja Bell can be had for that price? Perhaps a veteran backup point guard such as Steve Blake or Rafer Alston? Perhaps three million can be used towards a second big star?

*meant 4 years at 12 mil or cheaper, not 3.

Still though its funny we’re even talking about this.

Last year you’d of been run out of town for just even implying the thought of keeping JJ in any capacity.

Something tells me they would try and trade Curry as an expiring deal before they bought his option out though.

I know….. good call.

But he fits here. Also, we have all said that he would fit better on a good team. Starting next year, the Knicks’ plan is to be a very good team.

Alston is homegrown maybe he’ll give us a discount.

I agree he does fit.

But no one will want to keep him at 6.8 mil.

I hope you’re right.

“You gotta remember professional athletes are all about the mighty dollar.”

I doubt it.

I can’t remember the last one that did.

I think Jeffries would take comparable money to go to a team with a chance to win a ring. Besides, playing next to Duncan, Jeffries would be that much better a defensive player.

Team probably are not gonna give much back for Jeffries because they figure we don’t value him as much and our coach don’t value defense as much as well.

Oh I get it…………sarcasm……………….funny……………..clever too.

lol Players usually give discounts to win a ring or get more playing time….which can lead to making for money later on! The gamble has to be worth it to them!

This is obviously wishful thinking here but I try to be somewhat realistic in my thoughts. Could this scenario possibly happen:

Restructure JJ for 4 years at $3.25 million per

Save $2 million on EC buyout (Who is going to trade for him next year where the Knicks don’t take a contract back?)

This saves the Knicks about $5.5 million reducing the payroll to about $22 million (rounding off Hoopshype’s salary #s)

LBJ and Bosh agree to sacrifice some $ and both sign for $14 million each. This brings the payroll to $50 million, leaving $5 million to sign 6 additional players (including 2nd round draft picks) to fill out a 13 man roster.

Our main 7 would be:

TD
Chandler
Gallo
LBJ
Bosh

J. Hill
Jeffries

This works for me for a year until the additional $9 million kicks in from Curry’s deal and we can get a legit PG.

Am I crazy, or could this happen?

Why would JJ do that? He could make more money going to a contender than to take that from us!

No shot intended, my apologies.

I just really don’t see it happening.

Just like I don’t think JJ will opt out.

I wouldn’t mind being wrong if both scenarios pan out though.

I doubt Jerad Jeffires will take a discount. He does not have a lot of money to make for the rest of his career and nba careers are short. You also have to consider that Jefferies will lose additional money by agreeing to be paid a signifacant amount of the contract in the future rather than receive all the money next year (time value of money). We probably would have to offer him $13.5 to $14 million over 3 years to convince him to opt out. There is no reason for him to take a discount.

No offense taken but if you read my earlier comments that was my response to Chris that he will not opt out under any circumstances and if he does it will be to leave and go to a contender.

Or to come home after the prime of their careers.

some
sidenotes

i wonder i wonder
who he was taking shots at..

Quentin Richardson: Shout out to my lil bro @Nate_Robinson. Way to go get 40 as soon as they stopped the foolishness!! Somebody don’t look too bright over there. Twitter…

but jefferies
is a D guy
for the contract he has signed
he hasn’t played even up to 3 MILL a year player until now only of the D end
he will get traded to a contender or a playoffs team.
does any of the trainer tell his 6’11 jeff to dunk it when he’s around the basket or he can’t dunk?
he dunking like layups for he?

I dont think JJ does it.

I hope he does, but I doubt it. If he does, he will cement himself as an all time knick fav. If he really does love NYC and Mike D, then it could be worth it.

My opinion about JJ is that if a good trade comes along. Something that rids his salary next season and gives us SOMEThing in return…

But the idea of keeping him is warming to me. Yes he is overpaid. But there are great FA around the following season as well… It may be worth it to keep him

This is a tough one for donnie.

Either way, I am glad we didnt do that old trade with him and nate.

I hear ya. Why would JJ sign a contract with us for less money? He should fire his agent if he’s advised to do so. If the Knicks want him for less money then they can try to buy him out and hope that he will make that money up and sign with a team of his choice.

Otherwise, JJ would not be smart to sign a contract for much less over more years.

With one year left, the Knicks can play hardball by holding onto him if they can’t get a good trade back! This MIGHT get JJ to accept a smaller buyout next year and etc.

JJ can’t shoot but I think he can add! lol

Sooo the 76ers are still pondering to trade their star Andre Iguodala for T Mac…..Can we please get Iggy.I mean thats our other star and hes not signed to a max contract more money for a big man or point guard.

The same can be stated for Chandler too! Chandler goes in for the nicest layups but he should be throwing it down.

lol I think the trainers are busy telling JJ to “pass the ball ansd don’t even think about it!”

He was bright enough to get q traded….

I agree. You don’t have to do everything in the summer of 2010. Using Curry’s expiring as a trade piece can also get us a really good player via trade. Don’t buy him out. Wait a few months and see what we can get for it.

Brilliant idea which would work perfect for us I hope Donnie get s wind of this idea it’s brilliant.I would rather have Lee at 10 per than Bosh at 14 per.Give me Lebron ,Johnson and Lee with the same core and call it a day.

I can see why Q is a little bitter. Once we traded him it started a chain reaction that make him the joke of the summer. What was he traded 4 times or something?

I’d rather have Bosh at $14 million, but I think that he will cost even more. I still would rather have Bosh. There is no question that Bosh is an all star player. Lee?

I would never advise Jeffries to opt out and do the Knicks any favors….BUT that’s just the agent in me talking.

Have we finally come down off our Nate high yet?
If not it’s cool..I was jumping up and down watching him last night.

Even though we’ve all seen that before it was still a sight for sore eyes.

Maybe Duhon can get some much needed rest now.

Now I see where you get your name from?

Are you high right now? LOL

Why? Do you think that it’s the other way around? Lee is the bona fide all star and Bosh is the question mark? Bosh is much better than Lee. I like Lee too, but Bosh is on another level.

I love what Jared is doing. But you have to remember that the system now isn’t the system we want to be running in 2010. If you can get expirings, or if you can get a piece or two for next year, you do it without blinking.

How is Lee a question mark?

Knick fans are the only ones that think Lee is a question mark? What makes him a question mark? His defense? Is Amare a question mark? Bosh is not a max player…he can’t even lead his team to a 500 record this year (even though it’s not over)…we won’t even talk about last year.

Trading Curry next year, if it came to that, WOULD be about taking a long contract back. You’re talking trading assets/expirings for a superstar. (Chris Paul, etc.)

Yea Bosh does everything Lee does and more. like block shots has more post moves and can even hit a three.

The good thing about this arguement is that one of us will be proven right. We will see after the summer. I say that Bosh will get close to or maybe even a full max contract. If Lee gets a $12 million per year deal he should consider himself extremely lucky. I don’t even think he will get that.

If Bosh was a RFA last summer, how many offers do you think he would have received? They are not even close.

His game is useful to our team but he contract must go. Surely we can get some sort of young value for him in return . Brendan Wright out Golden State perhaps I dont know but there has to be a young upside guy that we can get that is just sitting on someones bench.

Nice wishful thinking here, but no way JJ would do that. Plus, I think that at times we overrate JJ’s defensive contributions in order to compensate for his complete lack of any offensive skill. This guy on offense is unlike anyone in the league; He’s not Bruce Bowen hitting corner 3′s, He’s not Ben Wallace finishing on dunks and layups. This guy actually has no offensive skill whatsoever, he can’t finish on layups or dunks, can’t hit 3s or open shots, he can’t even dribble or make plays for others. While on defense he may be so amazing that its like having an extra player, on offense the Knicks literally lose a player completely. They go 4 on 5 consistently when he is in the game. While his defense has been great and he has been helping the team somewhat, he needs to develop some kind of offensive skill before he can really help a team.

under the table agreements are strictly prohibited and result in huge fines, lost draft pics and the suspension of executives and agents.

Next idea.

GS isn’t a team I’d expect a defensive specialist to go to lol. BUT…

Rumor has it: Caron Butler could be packaged by WAS to get McGrady. I think we can offer more/better. Saunders wants defense, we send Hughes/Jeffries/Hill for Butler/Foye/James… Just sayin/hopin

Maybe the Knicks buy him out and save 1-2 million like they would w/ Eddy Curry – but he is not going to decline his player option and pass up the opportunity.

yeah Q is bitter.. playing with D Wade in South Beach on a probable playoff team..

he also has some scary knees…. while lee has NO health issues. d lee at 9 or 10 million is better than bosh at 15 imo…. not even close at all

Jeffries is a good compent to the team. he does the intangibles and plays great defense on guards. he fit his role on this team an is worth keeping.

Exactly, glad you agree.

Well written, Chris.

My question: is any precedent for any pro athlete in any sport rejecting $7M and taking less? Anyone in the NBA done that? If Jeffries is the first, what message does that send to other players? Just wondering.

Jeffries at least will play hard for his $7M and feel he has earned it. What about that lump on the bench, Eddy Curry, who will gladly sit there all year and next for $11M. That fries my brain more than anything.

bosh is better but not by much

lee doesn’t command the ball etc

if he was a go to guy he could average mid 20′s numbers

but bosh blocks shots
lee is a better rebounder
bosh has a better jumper..

yeah.. Joe Smith.. and it cost Minnesota 5 mil in fines.. they forfeited 3 first round draft picks and a few years of their GM’s services. (actually turned out to be a positive but they kept McHale around.

check that.. the fine was 3.5 mil.. and they forfeited the rights to Smith.

Huh? Smith and Minn did something illegal? What? Chris was talking about something legal or illegal?

yes.. in 1999 Smith was a free agent and signed a short term under market contract with Minny to play with KG..

he had a side agreement with mcHale to get paid on his next deal to make it up to him..and circumvent the salary cap (they were over the cap and could not compete for his services on equal footing)

ended up that the league suspended McHale.. they had to forfeit FIVE first round draft picks (later reduced to three) and paid a 3.5 mil fine .. and los tthe rights to Smith who they had to release.

under the table deals to circumvent the cap are dealt with pretty sternly..

Yeah, I thought about the Joe Smith situation too. Very good call, Biggie.

Essentially, Joe Smith signed a bunch of one year deals below his market value with Minnesota with the promise that he would get a long-term deal in the future from McHale. This was done to circumvent the cap. Minnesota was fined and lost a couple of draft picks.

I am not so sure this would be considered illegal though because Jeffries has a player option. It would be his right to opt out of a deal. The Knicks cannot force him to opt out. If he felt it was worth his while to do this coming off a good year, then I believe he would be free to do so.

I am not sure if this would be illegal for him to do. The situation is a bit different from that of Joe Smith, but that is an interesting point, Biggie.

Here is a bit more of an explanation on the Smith scandal….

http://espndb.go.com/nba/finals/profile/_/id/4144/type/player/kevin-mchale

not exactly similar but both quid pro quo side deals to circumvent the cap..

correct
i remember that..

As I am a bit fuzzy on all of the details, I understand the details of the Smith scandal as being that he signed with the Wolves for less than he would have gotten elsewhere. Under this idea, Jeffries would not do that. As I noted above, he would be able to sign with any team, but no team would likely offer him more than 4 million per season. If they did, then Jeffries would be even more wise to opt out of his deal.

The issue is not opting out to get paid less than his option year salary. The issue would be signing with the Knicks for below market value. If the Knicks offer him the most money, i.e. a deal worth more than his market value, than that automatically makes this situation different from Smith.

Biggie… you appear to be more well-versed on that scandal than I am. Could Smith have signed with another team for more money? Did he have bigger offers on the table?

well at the time he was a 22 year old free agent former #1 overall pick.. He was not a great star but a serviceable player who just got traded in season in his third year..

he opted out after the trade and declared free agency.. then took way less money to go to Minny and play with KG and some young guard from Coney Island..

he definitely left money on the table when he took the Minny deal..

If JJ just opted out and then resigned with us for less per I’d imagine it would set off similar red flags with the league offices..

Wizard fans were so happy when they said bye-bye to Jeffries. other some occasional production, this guy is a bench player at best.
isn’t he another one of Isiaih Thomas brilliant acquisition?

Perhaps…

I still think that the situations are a bit different. Or would be at least…

I am glad you brought that up…

As I said, I thought about the scandal but didn’t give it much thought. I figured it was different, but you are right in saying there are similarities.

I would imagine that Walsh would do nothing illegal, so i trust that such a scandal would not happen here.

In terms of the league offices, they would have to view this as an entirely different situation from Joe Smith. The office would have to analyze every minute detail to determine the legality of such a transaction.

You might be right in saying it is illegal. You might be wrong as well too. I am not really sure either of us can truly determine that without examining the rule books and inquiring of league officials, etc.

That said, very nice work on bringing that point up, Biggie. Very astute observation.

Wow, that was almost as bad as the eddy curry trade lol

mos def it would

At least he doesn’t point guns into the faces of his teammates in the locker room. I’d rather have Jefferies than one of those two idiots.

I’m sure Q loved the way the summer went for him. I’m sure it made him feel great…please.

Well if he opts out it’s not a under the table deal.

remind me again why he would opt out when we have established that he is grossly overpaid.

Actually the Wiz wanted to keep Jeffries just not at the outrageous price IT gave him. I watched him play and was shocked that the Wiz players and ownership wanted him back but I guess they felt he was a decent role player for them. His defense was really good back then too. Like the defense he is playing this year (not like the last few years where he had no role).

I’m starting to come around on Jeffries. I still don’t think he is a good basketball player (in order to get that title you have to be able to make a layup consistently), but his defense is bringing me back to my favorite Knicks teams of the 90s. Taking charges, blocking shots.

But the team still plays 4 on 5 on offense when he is out there and I don’t want him on the team any longer than he has to be.

Jennings vs. Westbook in overtime on NBA TV. Two PGs I would have loved to have had running the Knicks. Durant is going to be a superstar in this league if he ever gets out of OKC. Portland must be kicking themsleves they could have had Roy/Durant/Webster/Alrdige.

Bosh averages more rebounds per game than Lee.

durant can be a superstar in okc. like the tim duncan for okc although durant is not as good as duncan yet.

Is that what Chris is suggesting? I thought he said Jeffries can opt out? He can or cannot?

Biggie, are you an attorney? Your contract knowledge is amazing.

Dave

sidenotes

i’m happy z-bo an jamal found good teams.

the griz are now playing 500 ball

Well, if he can legally opt out what right does the NBA to say what his market value should be and can he re-sign with the Knix, or what can he do?

durant offensively i past alot of players in this league

in the next 3 years he guy will be droppin 50 60 10 times a season

he is no duncan
but will be great

Yeah that is really good to see, especially with JCraw. I always liked him, it will be great to watch him in the playoffs for the 1st time in his career.

not sure why im on this thread as its so far fetched..

he has a player option for 6.8 mil next year. we’ve established that is way over market value.

from my reading of the piece he is saying he should opt out of his grossly over market contract so we can then resign him at a lower AAV and more years.. why his agent would take that type of risk without an under the table agreement is beyond me…

my background is wall street… ive got a knack for numbers..

it just reeks of quid pro quo.. sort of like the Joe Smith thing.

so the premise is he gives up 6.8 mil in 2010 to make 3.5 or so..

why not just take the 6.8 then hit the market in 2011? in a differnt economy (hopefully)

im already seeing tweets that link to this article and call it a “strong possibility that JJ might opt out”

We need to get you in touch with Ben Bernanke, I think they could use the help over there.

I was never big on Crawford, but he’s a much better fit as a 6th man than a franchise player. I’m happy for him.

i couldnt pass the security clearance..

too many vices.

plus im a registered Libertarian

Agreed. He was not meant to carry a team as the Knicks asked him to do, but I always liked him because he carried himself like such a professional and it was clear all his teammates liked him. Just a class act in my opinion. He is good as a 6th man on a good team, that is definitely correct.

TMI

I hesitate to call Jeffries a Jack of all (defensive) trades. He isn’t efficient in defending most 4′s and 5′s. He’s a great help defender down low, but other than flopping, he doesn’t bring a lot to the table as a main body defender downlow. He lateral quickness coupled with his long body is ideal for guarding the 1-3, but is too weak for the frontcourt. Still, a team that uses the zone or needs to patch up perimeter defense could find him useful despite his contract. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Other than that, pretty much everything else has been said. I don’t think this proposal will work, but I appreciate the outside-the-box thinking.

Side note: Carlos Arroyo’s fate with Miami is up in the air. I hope Donnie is monitoring the situation.

Also, TJ Ford is looking more and more vestigial in Indiana, he’s got a fat contract with a team option in 2010, maybe there’s something there.

i wish Z-BO was still a knick

Haha not a Johnny Keynes guy I’m guessing? You probably wouldn’t fit in.

Nevermind, Ford has a player option.

He was good for us, but no way do I wish he stuck around making 17 million or whatever. I would have liked him at 10 mill though, even though he was a black hole on offense and played no d.

LOL, yeah let’s stay away from politics. If a post that contains a made up Jared Jeffries contract extention that has 0% chance of happening can generate 87 comments, can you imagine what would happen if this group started talking politics

I don’t think Jeffries can guard the 4 or 5 that well either, but he is integral to a team defense that is predicated on switching on all screens like the Knicks. I really enjoy the versatility the Knicks have on defense right now, with many tall players who can play d on the perimeter. Jeffries is pretty expendable in my opinion anyway though, as Wilson in particular is just as versatile on defense.

LMAO>. not so much..

we have enough trouble with Sports..

Im more comfortable talking about the odds of hitting a flush by the river when starting with 2 suited cards

Lets do religion next!

15 to 1 BTW

Forget Bernanke, you should get to know Howard Lederer. I hear he’s a bball fan too.

LOl So am I.

Durant already is great. I’d build my team around him.

I played his sister annie duke once.

crushed me.

lederer seems like a real crazy intellectual.

Id love to meet Phil Ivey.

I worked with Erik Seidel in the 80′s

if I was Lebron i would go play with Durant for 10 years.

If he can opt out, the league must have some rules in place, such as a player has 30 days to filed offers from any and all teams, then at the after that he can sign where ever he wants. I don’t see how that’s collusion. But then, I can’t fathom him walking away from $7M. He’s injury prone, not young, the economy is shaky and $7M for one year is more than a fortune and nothing to blow off.

Haha ok now you’re just showing off.

geesh, lots of typos……calling it a night.

good post..

ive given up repeating that JJ CANT really guard five positions.

Yeah no question Jeffries can’t guard 5 positions. But he is better than the hot garbage I thought he was coming into the season.

People are making him out to be some kind of defensive specialist, a Dennis Rodman type which to me he is not. No way I would ever pay Jeffries more than 1.5 mil. 2 mil max.

The guy can’t make a layup and is a defensive “specialist” who can only guard players smaller than him.

there is something like a 14 day moratorium
from July 1 until they set the cap for the next year

the league has to approve all contracts.. Larry Coon says there’s a clause about suspected schemes to circumvent the cap..

i agree i cant see how the agent takes that risk.

this is the worst thread ever.

I think 1 month is a little to early to say he’s a keep for the future. The season started with everyone pretty much set on Douglas/Gallo/Chandler/Hill coming back next year with no one else returning.

Now you hear keep Lee, maybe Keep Al, now Jeffries. Come Feb you will know if Jeffries is really a big key to the D on this team. I can’t judge by 9-6 month. Yes its better then we’ve ever played but I’m not ready to say keep him.

Its not a crazy idea because this is done in baseball a lot. Braves just did it with Tim Hudson. Its really on Jeffries does he want to stay in NY? If so is he willing to risk some money to stay? I think $4M is to much bring it down to $3M. I still say the Key to 2010 is trading Eddy and use Mobley/Al/Hill and picks to get it done.

Hey Biggie,did you see some guy on the previous thread was bustin yer balls!did you see it

My what a winning month will do for a fans perception on a player who in November they were killing. It seems like Jefferies is finally playing like he was in DC. He really is a good player to have on any team. At 6-10/11 he can guard 4 positions on the court. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he finishes up his career as a Knick.

Dude why are you here? You admitted you aren’t even a Knick fan. Your opinion doesn’t even matter anymore.

No shots.

If I were LeBron, I’d take the money and go to NY

lol Gilbert Arenas is such a forgetable basketball player. He’s the face of the NBA’s mediocrity in the 2000′s in my opinion.

Chris, I’ve been harping almost exactly what you said for about a year now. Basically, create a win, win situation for JJ and the Knicks.

In an ideal world, I believe MDA wants JJ around as a rotation player. You can see he likes JJ over more “talented” guys in Darko, Hill, and Curry.

However, in order to get JJ to agree, you will have to blow him away with an offer. Knicks will need to give JJ a 4 year, $16 million deal. That’s an extra $9 million of future salary guaranteed. I can’t see how JJ and his agent turn that down.

Now onto the legality. It is true. Technically, this is illegal. You can’t have side deals to circumvent the cap. HOWEVER, this happens all the time. Remember Boozer? That was a side deal that would have been illegal. Remember Devean George? That was illegal but would have got away with it kept mouth shut. Of course, Walsh and JJ’s agent would never put it in writing. Walsh would have to convince agent to trust him and that he won’t reneg.

But who’s to say this is circumventing the cap? All Walsh has to say is this, “Jared, we really REALLY value you as a player. The thought of losing you in 2011 would be detrimental. Obviously, you can take option if you want. It’s your choice and we can’t force you to do anything. But if you happen to opt out, we would be VERY interested in giving you a long term deal. That’s because we value your skills so highly.”

See? Perfectly legal explanation.