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Some Jeffries Love…It’s about Time

by Tommy Dee on January 9th, 2010 at 9:34 am

Via Truehoop:

“…Not to beat a dead horse, but if there’s a case for plus/minus or some kinds of stats the measure defensive contributions, Jeffries is it. The boxscore said he was so-so. I say he was this game’s clear MVP.

Next time you watch the Knicks, watch Jeffries. You’ll see what I mean…”

Amazing how, because the Knicks are somewhat “watchable” everyone now pays attention much closer.

The Knicks were a punchline to the national media for so long that they fell asleep on them, and some still have. As I’ve said repeatedly, Jeffries had a horrible stigma attached to him. In addition, he struggles mightily offensively for the most part. But he’s been doing this type of stuff defensively for a while. Now the team has more length along with him so they don’t give up layups and wide open shots AS A TEAM.

Remember, D’Antoni LOVED Jeffries when he first got here and he played well in camp before getting hurt.

But unlike Isiah Thomas who told the media how much better the team would be when Jeffries was hurt in his first season with the Knicks, D’Antoni managed expectations and is reaping the benefits.

In fact the coach has been saying that Jeffries playing more has led directly to the team’s resurgence and unless the PERFECT deal comes along, it’s really hard to imagine the team will deal him. Simply put, if he’s not here the team doesn’t win. I think he’s that important defensively.

Good to see the national media finally has taken the time to notice.

We’ve been watching the whole time.
  • BiggieSmalls

    i hope Donnie keeps his perspective and uses this increase in Jeffries value to push for a move..

    It is imperative that JJ move in order to be a player in July 2010. That hasnt cahnged as a goal.

    Im happy that JJ is gettign props but also that it means we can reach a goal of moving him to play with the big dogs on July 1

  • Mucha

    Jared Jeffries is actually fresh (kinda) when he’s not wearing the headband lol.

    Like Biggie just said, it is imperative to trade him if nobody wants Eddy Curry.

    How the Knicks would play without Jeffries is a huge question mark though. But Mike D’Antoni found a way to turn a scrub (he was absolutely useless during the 1-9 start) into a key player who’s conductive to winning. I think he’ll be smart enough to make the right adjustments if Donnie Walsh moves Jared Jeffries. Purely hypothetical though…

  • donnie walsh

    Yikes. now we’re not moving Jeffries unless we get the perfect deal? insane. Sure he has played great defensively, but lets get our head out of our ass. The knicks are at best a bottom seed in the playoffs. They’re not going anywhere. Jeffries HAS to be moved. Its amazing to think we could just abandon the entire plan due to a small hot streak.

    The funny thing is that only when Jeffries gains actual trade value do knicks fans decide they don’t want to trade him.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    gotta be the right deal.

  • BiggieSmalls

    I would use Toney Douglas as the defensive ace on the point guard and rotate Gallo into the back line of the 2-3 defense?

    trading JJ would mean more minutes for Douglas and Hill.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Simply put.. if Jeffries in on the team in July 2010 we either let Lee walk free and clear or lose any chance to offer a max contract to a free agent.

  • bob go knicks

    Most really good teams have an intangible player like jeffries on their team

  • BiggieSmalls

    keep your eye on the prize Mr. Dee.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Yes I understand the goal, if those people are convinced that James NEEDs another max player next year. what if jeffries restructures out of loyalty to D’Antoni?

  • donnie walsh

    yeah just not eating 6 million dollars. Its not the player whose the problem. Its the previous jackass who gave him his contract.

  • BiggieSmalls

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q52

    …..Contracts cannot be renegotiated downward (players can’t take a “pay cut” in order to create salary cap room for the team) or to contain fewer seasons.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    where would the team be with lee and no jeffries defensively?

  • Knicks4life

    A team that young and inexperienced is not winning anything.

  • Knicks4life

    But Jeffries has a player option for next year.

  • BiggieSmalls

    so you are a proponent of going to war with Lee/Jeffries and NO max player next year?

    I thought Lee was an all star.. now he is nothing with out his defensive caddy Jared Jeffries.

  • BiggieSmalls

    that could make it collusion.

    i asked Larry Coon if a player could decline an option to take a smaller (per year) contract with the same team and he respond that it would be considered colluding to circumvent the salary cap.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Sorry to break it to you but this team as constructed isnt winning the championship this year..

    getting Hill and Douglas some much needed game experience would add to their development and help find out what we have.

  • Not Hawthorne Wingo

    Re. Jeffries and collusion. I wonder if it would be considered collusion if the player signs a much longer contract. Jeffries is 28, if he got a 5 or 6 year contract, even at a lesser amount, it could be legitimately argued it was in his best interests. Now, whether the Knicks want to do that or not is a different question.

  • Knicks4life

    Agreed. My point though is going with the youth movement eliminates any shot at the playoffs.

    I’m undecided whether it is the right move or not. Logically trading Jeffries with Lee is the smart thing to do. I just don’t know if I can’t take another horrible season.

  • bob go knicks

    well then YOU trade him,you’re Donnie Walsh!

  • Knicks4life

    Understood. But if that player declines his one year option to sign a longer five year deal at less money (say $3 mil per year) it might not be seen as collusion since it is more overall money than he would have made.

    I think Tim Duncan did that for SA with his last contract.

  • Knicks4life

    See above. I agree.

  • bob go knicks

    maybe because of the size of Jeffries contract,hell play for free from 2011 -2013

  • donnie walsh

    its imperative to sell high with Jeffries and not abandon the plan. I sometimes wonder if people in here even pay attention to the actual salary cap.

    The knicks are at 27 mil next year for 6 players. If they want to sign Lebron you can notch on a minimum of 20 mil. Just like that you are at 47mil FOR 7 PLAYERS. The salary cap might be as small as 50mil next year, possibly at 53mil. So at most you have 6 mil to work with to pay the other half of your team.

    The notion that the knicks are now gonna try to keep Jeffries contract is absolutely laughable. Fortunately we’re not the GMs of the knicks.

  • donnie walsh

    edit** Lebron’s first year salary will be closer to 17 mil than 20. but you get the point.

  • BiggieSmalls

    in 2003 Duncan declined his player option and resigned for a MAX contract.. 7 years 122 million.with the spurs.

    in 2007 Duncan signed a multi year extension that starts in 2010/11 ..

    that extension starts for less money but it did not affect his previous deal…

  • BiggieSmalls

    im not sure it eliminates ANY shot at the playoffs this year.. I still think 39 wins gets the 8 seed

  • Knicks4life

    I think even with Jeffries and Lee this team is barely a 39 win team.

  • Qaspec

    Collusion has nothing to with whether or not it is in Jeffries best interest. No matter who benefits the league frowns on collusion as a means to circumvent the CBA.

    Biggie is right, the team could be seen as trying to circumvent the cap and lose draft picks over succesive years the same as what happened to the Timberwolves due to Joe Smith.

    At the same time the burden is on the NBA to prove collusion and it’s a difficult charge to prove. In my opinion Jeffries will be traded, Donnie wants to make him seem untouchable as a means to get the best offer possible. Another defensive wing can be brought in as a free agent or trade at a fraction of the price.

  • Knicks4life

    So there is some precedent for it. Not saying Jeffries would ever agree to that but it is worth a shot.

  • BiggieSmalls

    no.. its not the same.. Duncan signed a two year extension to his 7 year deal..it didnt change what the Spurs owe to Duncan in the final years of his deal. just gave him two more years..starting with a pay cut in 2010/11 and a 10% increase in 2011/12

  • gohard83

    I have been reading this blog for about a month now and just started to

    comment. I have one question it seems everyone wants to trade JJ

    among other Knicks. If we trade away people like JJ a good role player

    although he is making 6 mil what team will surround a superstar in 2010.

    We will just have the same issue Pat Ewing had. One great player with a

    weak to so so team. We have to show free agents that we have a better

    team than the one they are on if they play here in N.Y. I dont just want the

    playoffs every year I want a Championship. Just My Thoughts.

  • gohard83

    I dont agree as we are 12-6 in the last month or so I believe I do know ever since the 1-9 start we are playing better than .500 ball. But I would like to see Jordan Hill play because I think with his jumpshot and he does play hard we would be ok if we trade JJ I just hope we make the right choice cause we need a good team to surround a superstar or we will be the 90′s Knicks all over again which is not bad but after over 30 years no ring it has to be better than that.

  • trenttucker

    Jeffries is indeed effective — he has, by far, the best plus/minus and adjusted plus/minus on the team (Gallo is next). That said, we still have to trade Jeffries in a heartbeat. Sell high, sell high, sell high — the focus is making the team attractive for FAs. Biggie is right — we can use Douglas against PGs with crazy handle.

    Speaking of sell high, D Lee lovers should note that Lee still has a negative adjusted plus/minus — despite his offensive abilities, the team still does poorly with him on the floor. I wonder if we could convince anyone to give us expiring contracts for Lee, Curry, and Jordan Hill. (probably not)

  • gohard83

    I hope so cause Defense wins games and there are not that many people in the NBA that will just play Bruce Bowen Defense and not care how much they score. I know on O he is below average (being Nice) and I was down on him but it is clear we dont win without him or a player like him. Just look at the bobcat game where he fouled out. The D collapsed.

  • gohard83

    I have a question even if the cap is at 50 or 53 mil cant we go over the cap and just pay the tax we have done that in years past. I mean this type of a opportunity for Lebron lets say only comes around once in a blue moon. If he gets 17 or 20 for the first year cant we go over to fill the roster.

  • x-man

    I see ya keep trying to get folks to think strategically. JJ value is better now than it may have ever been but some seem to be in that mode of elevating him now since we’ve won some games.

    JJ is more valuable to this team now because he’s really the ONLY one playing good team defense and he anchors it now and is the communication leader.

    When this team plays man-to-man, JJ effect is truly minimize because most of our our defenders can’t guard anyone really and the paint is wide open.

    JJ is a nice piece to keep if he fits into the grand plan next year and don’t cost us the ability to get key players but no doubt, the time to trade him to get max value is NOW!

    If this team starts losing and they will (Hope I’m wrong), it won’t be long before fans start turning on JJ. He’ll take a key 3 pt shoot or miss an easy layoup in a critical moment and he will go downhill and incur the wrath of the fans. It happens each year!

  • BiggieSmalls

    there is a cap hold equal to 150% of the players last years salary if you want to retain “our players”

    so if we want to go over the cap to retain our players it hamstrings us from signing anyone elses players.

  • BiggieSmalls

    welcome aboard.. the problem with that is we have to work within the cap to sign players..

    you can not get a superstar if you decide to keep Lee and Jeffries on this roster.

    hard decisions have to be made on who fits and who doesnt..

    i agree that you need two superstars to win the chip.. and to get those superstars you are going to have to make some moves with players who may be overpaid for what they bring.

  • Jeff C

    That 150% cap hold goes away once we officially sign them. If we sign lee to 10 million, his cap hold is 10 million.

    And 27 million sounds like enough for leBron and Lee…

    Just being optomistic, but that would be ideal. i know we disagree on how good lee is, but the truth is he is a homegrown all-star (probably) and i really hate to see someone like that go. I feel like that is the point of basketball.

    Anyway, lets say we have lee, Lebron, Galo and Will all around next year, and we make a push to win the eastern conference. Maybe we even make the finals. Then, all of a sudden, in 2011, we have enough room for another max, (or close to it),… how could durant/melo say no?

    Again, these are best case scenarios.
    Biggie- is it really IMPOSSIBLE to keep Lee and also get lebron? I don’t know the numbers specifically, but i saw 27 million somewhere, and that seems to work.

  • gohard83

    Ok got you. I really believe we will not get Lebron maybe Joe Johnson and someone else because I just cant see he walking away from Cleveland if they can offer him the most money. I would love to have him but we will see. I think we get Joe Johnson upgrade Pg and Center if possible and work out a deal for cp3 or melo. LOL I like Melos game more than Lebrons which is funny cause it used to be the other way around.

  • Jeff C

    All this talk about “abandoning the plan” is premature… Jeffries will go, unless Curry does… But there’s no reason to trade him any earlier than we have to. The longer we keep him and the better we play, the higher his value will be.

    I recommend we don’t worry about that. When it comes to ‘the plan’ i’m pretty sure Donnie has always been pretty adamant, and we should just let him take care of that. Let’s focus on the winning now, because realistically this team could (maybe even should) win 40 games. That’s all i’m focused on right now. The rest will take care of itself in due time.

  • BiggieSmalls

    27 mil is our existing commitments for SIX players in 2010.. include another 3 mil for 6 salary cap slots (you need to have 12 slots occupied.. ) and we have 30 million committed.

    give Lee 10 mil and on a 54 million dollar cap you have about 14.5 million left over to sign additional players..

    not enough for a max player who gets a slot equal to 30% of the cap or 16.2 million.

    thats assuming Lee gets in line RIGHT AWAY and signs for 10 milion a year when he could easily stay on teh market and solicit higher offers from other teams (New Jersey or the Cavs to screw us up) ..

    In short.. retaining the Bird rights to Lee is beyond very risky and jeopardizes the whole plan.

    Durant is a restricted free agent in 2011 and Melo has an 18.5 mil player option in 2011

  • BiggieSmalls

    even if it is 50/50 that he comes here.. (which it probably is.. where else does he go?) you HAVE TO have the space to give it a go..

    If DOnnie and the coach cant work their magic to get him here then regroup with plan B..

  • BiggieSmalls

    trade deadline is February 18th.. how long should we wait?

    sell high.. bulls and bears make money.. pigs make sh!t

  • gohard83

    I Agree

  • joetheknick

    Biggie is right. Need to move JJ for an expiring contract. JJ’s defense will be replaced by Hill, Douglas, Bender and Landry. They are all young, athletic and hungry for minutes. The playoff appear to be in the plan and I don’t see JJ’s departure changing it. Need flexibility in 2010. Nothing less.

  • Big Daddy

    The right deal is any deal as long as we are free of contracts next season.

  • x-man

    Coem on, surely as a Knicks fan, you have the grit to endure another bad season or one not making the playoffs. It’s in our DNA! lol

    Besides, making the right moves might give us the chance to turn the tables starting next year.

    Try being a Knicks, Mets and Jets Fan and you will see how strong will you can be. Some call it other things but I’m strong enough to ignore that! lol

  • gohard83

    LMAO Giants, Yankees :) , Knicks fan so I have had some good years but Im by far a bigger Knicks fan than anything and know we have to get this righ 2010 i mean. Also I may sound crazy but I am liking the Idea of us making the playoffs as the biggest underdog I think in nba history. LOL and upsetting a number one seed. Thats my wish.

  • joeyballz

    Tommy,

    GOTTA BE THE RIGHT DEAL FOR JEFFRIES?

    What are you talking about. We shed JJ first chance we get. Lets not get caught up in our recent success. Tommy, its that shortsightedness that killed us in the past. Lets not travel down that road again. If Jefferies can be traded. DO IT ASAP. We can find plenty of other 6.10 players with length and defenisve prowess for much more value than 7 MIllion a season..if you want to go down that road…I am hoping for max stud, and a nice star secondary piece….we can find players like JJ in the draft…

  • joeyballz

    AGREED 100% Move JJ for an expiring ASAP

  • Dave the Rave

    Trent, you drunk? The team does poorly with Lee on the floor? Poorly? Watch the games, just don’t analyze stats.

  • Dave the Rave

    Why the h has the league been delaying the Mobley ruling for weeks and week? How can they do that?

  • Marzak

    Jeffries has got to go, that’s the best route for us. Unless a miracle can be pulled off for a Curry deal (or you can squeeze Lee on a deal which doesn’t seem likely). I say you must keep Lee.

  • x-man

    I hear ya but a Yankees and Giants Fan wouldn’t know real pain! You even won with A-roid!

    Now you’re scaring me in that maybe fate has you a Knicks Fan to keep a balance.

    Doeesn’t help me though, I’m still teetering to one side!

  • DaGawD_KnowLedge

    JEFFRIES

    is the heart an body of the knicks D

    nuff said..

  • trenttucker

    In the words of Rasheed Wallace, “ball don’t lie.” Just because he scores a lot does not mean that they succeed more when he is on the floor. When Lee is on the floor, regardless of who his other four teammates are or who the opposition is, the Knicks lose by one point. Nothing but the truth.