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Recap: Knicks 99 Pistons 91

by Tommy Dee on January 18th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

BOX SCORE

I had a feeling the Knicks would bounce back, partly because of no Ben Gordon or Rip Hamilton, but the team has lost these games before. The team needed a win, and they’ve used the Garden floor to raise their level, even against less-than-mediocre talent.

Today could be a message to Chris Duhon had this minutes may be in serious trouble based on how Nate Robinson controlled the game.

Nate is not a point guard, especially when he is feeling it, but you can’t deny Nate when he gets on a roll.

Does this mean Nate gets the starting job? Does this mean that Jordan Hill, impressive in the first half, yet passive in his 3rd quarter cameo, will continue to see consistent minutes?

What we know about the coach is that he always looks for the proper combination and when you have pretty inconsistent players, that’s the way you should attack it.

Good home win, for the most part, before Kobe and the Lakers come to town Friday night.
  • x-man

    Tommy Dee,

    the coach looks for that proper combination? dude, you must still be on getting over that hangover from the Jets celebration party last night.

    This coach is clueless about how to use his players and also about how to play against certain teams.

    N* looked good today because the perimeter was open and N8 knows how to get his shot off. Also N8 didn’t have to pay for his man knocking down perimeter shots either.

    This team was perfect for guys like N8 and Harrington!

  • Magik_Trick

    SIT DUHON!!! FOREVER

    Larry Hughes = Starting PG

  • Mucha

    Did you really say Larry Hughes?

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    yeah, I completely disagree.

    Okay x. here’s your chance to tell me what combinations you’d use if you were the coach.

    let’s use the Lakers as your opponent.

  • Mucha

    Good win.

    Nate, Gallo and Harrington were huge down the stretch. Harrington didn’t try to force the action – he plays well when he doesn’t try to go 1-on-5. Gallinari was huge in the 4th quarter with 7 consecutive points but he didn’t play particularly well in my opinion – too many lazy turnovers.

    Jordan Hill looked good in the 1st half. He’ll have to become a better rebounder (he definitely needs to spend some time in the weight room) but he played great defense and he was active offensively. I couldn’t watch the 3rd quarter though – so I don’t know how Jordan Hill played in the 2nd half but he is legit guys.

    It’s all about Kryptonate though – we lose this game without him.

  • x-man

    lol I figured you would throw a wrench in the mix and use the Lakers as the opponent!

    Against the Lakers, we are in trouble because that team can go inside and outside and they have Kobe! I expect us to lose against the Lakers!

    But if you want the line-up we should use against the Lakers, I would start with our normal line-up. It’s not the starting line-up that’s our problem. It’s what strategy we play against teams and what adjustments we make on the court. Even if we lose to the Lakers, this team has to set a tone that we will play tough smart defense and use our shooters like Gallo wisely.

    For example, anyone with a brain could see that this Pistons game was a game we should have put away early with their line-up on the floor.

    There is NO way the Pistons could outscore us if we kept them on the perimeter as well as moved the ball to our shooters.

  • ds2488

    Yes, this game was Nate really carrying us. He was phenomenal, and he has been shockingly improved on defense since his benching. He really uses his speed now to disrupt passing lanes and is fighting his way through screens really aggressively. Gallo was also huge in the 4th, and needs to be more aggressive and have screens set for him to get the ball when hes hot. I really like what Hill brings to the table and feel like he can really help this team if given minutes. He is up to contest every shot which is really refreshing to watch. He also has a sweet stroke, just needs to work on developing a post game and a defensive iq. I think he will be fine. Duhon needs to be benched period, he kills the team and is awful on both sides of the court. Nate should be starting, and Douglas needs to be getting some minutes, at least he brings it on the defensive side every possession. All in all, a win is a win and thats what this team needs to do.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    does that answer the question? use another team for example if you ‘d like.

    i want to know combinations…

    for example..Nate and Al are a combination generally with Lee Gallo and recently either bender or Hill.

    Al and Nate are gunners. if they both get hot they can really carry the second unit. if they are off the knicks are in trouble…

  • x-man

    As I stated for the Lakers, it does not matter much because all that is needed for us is a blindfold and a last cigarette! Kobe and co will shoot the lights out!

    Kobe is too smart to allow Gallo or any one player to take over. He would take that person out of the game himself.

    As for general combinations, it depends on the team we are playing. But I would try to never put Harrington, N8 and Gallo on the floor at the same time. N8 and Harrington hogs the ball.

    So alin-up I would like to see generally are

    - Hughes or Douglas starting
    - Chandler
    - Lee
    - Gallo
    - JJ or Hill

    I would bring N8 and Harrington off the bench together or maybe at different times depending on the match-ups and how they are playing.

    If WE ever get down by many pts, N8 and Harrington are the guys to get us back in from an offensive stand pt. Gallo could help but we need to set picks and screens for him.

    As we play against teams other than Lakers, Thunder and etc, i will put forth my l

    line-up and how we should pay that particular team.

    Let me ask ya a few questions:

    1. What are our strenghts on this team?
    2. Are we using them well and if not how?

  • BiggieSmalls

    Tommy — Im not sure that the coach is looking for combinations for a particular opponent rather than looking for combinations of hot players.. And im not sure how consistent he is with that philosophy

    When Hughes gets cold he sits him.. But — until VERY recently — hasnt done the same with Duhon.. Harrington gets unlimited passes on both ends and Lee gets an EZ pass on teh defensive end.. Yet Nate is in and out of favor and he seems to have given up on Bender. And Douglas sits and sits and sits.. after performing OK in a three game stint in November ..

    Ive stated many times that the coach should use a deeper rotation. And a consistent complaint on the coach is not using situational substitutions.

    I agree that he has some inconsistent players but who doesnt? The coach has said before that his philosophy is to let guys play thru it yet the actions dont seem to back that up.. except inexplicably with Duhon.

    Not sure if this helps.. Im trying to remain somewhat positive.. waiting for a move or some sort to happen in the next 30 days.. If I was in charge I would rotate most of the guys based on situation and go 9 or 10 deep.. and hold ALL players accountable on the defensive end.. And not encourage guys to toss up the first shot they see.. and run SET plays for hot players since I dont have a PG who can do that.. even Duhon doesnt get the ball to the hot hand..

    welcome back..

  • x-man

    You’re HIRED! I would hire ya in a minute! Noe go tell that clown D’Antoni to go get his s-h-i-t in 7 secs or less and clear the place.

  • Magik_Trick

    Hes the best point guard we have…
    …and hes not even a point guard

    But when he was in the rotation, he did a solid job of getting guys involved…and then you have the defense factor..

  • Mucha

    I think Hughes deserves to sit for his lack of respect and his lack of professionalism. He does not deserve to play – even his stats were awful.

    Duhon’s the starting point guard and the captain of this team. If you bench Duhon I think the team will suffer from a dramatic identity crisis. His minutes should be reduced no doubt about that, but I think he needs to stay in the starting line-up. The Knicks need some stability. But please reduce his minutes.

    I’m not a fan of the extra-short rotation either but D’Antoni’s doing a pretty good job with this team in my opinion.

  • BiggieSmalls

    with the Lakers.. and a blank slate.. i would run Jeffreis and Hughes against Kobe all game 24 minutes each.. then rotate Lee and Hill in teh post with Harrington/Nate on the wing for as long as each is hot.. and give 35 minutes to Gallo at the 3 and 35 to Chandler at the 2/3 spot.. and I’d use Duhon/Douglas as the PG combo for 15 min each and Hughes handling the ball for .. 12 of his 24.. with Nate filling in the balance.

    I’d love to say give Darko some of the minutes in the post but that is impractical since who knows if he even has sneakers at this point… but with the blank slate you’d see him banging for 10 minutes where he didnt touvh the ball and was out there when Nate/Harrington were paired..

    Down the stretch if it is close I would have defensive substitutions and offensive substitutions..

  • Mucha

    Last time he was in the rotation :

    22.12 : 2-6 FGA-M, 4 PTS, 2 AST, 2 TO
    25.12 : 0-3 FGA-M, 3 PTS, 1 AST, 1 TO
    27.12 : 1-6 FGA-M, 2 PTS, 1 AST, 2 TO
    29.12 : 0-4 FGA-M, 0 PTS, 1 AST, 1 TO
    30.12 : 0-3 FGA-M, 2 PTS, 3 AST, 2 TO

    Averages : 0.13 FG%, 2.2 PPG, 1.6 APG, 1.6 TOPG.

    Yeah the assist per turnover ratio proves that he “did a solid job of getting guys involved”. He’s not a defensive stopper by the way, he’s a pretty good defender but that’s it. Larry Hughes is a brand you can’t trust man, ask the Chicago Bulls. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt too – but let’s be realistic.

    His lack of respect for this organization is the icing on the cake.

  • x-man

    Yeah that’s one way to do it but I would do this if I was the coach:

    1. Go to Hughes and tell him that I plan to star him providing he works his butt off in practice and on the defensive end in games.

    2, I would then embarrass his a-s-s if he didn’t work hard on defense in games. I would tell the media that I personally gave Hughes specifics on what I expected of him and he agreed. Yet, he’s on the bench because because he dogged it. So pay no mind to any barking!

    Douglas would be in the game as the back up with him starting if hughes doesn’t take advantage of this new opportunity.

    Coaches have to be tough but fair. It can’t be a personal thing. It’s about business!

  • Hydr0

    So your plan is to create a media circus and then throw a rookie into the line up as your starting point guard. Sry, but that doesn’t sound like a great plan to me.

    Do you think the media will listen to you and actually not listen to Larry Hughes bark? lol

  • manners

    Good win by the team. In fact any win by the team is good and needed!!!
    All this talk about lineups is for not. What is needed is a lineup that other teams will feel a need to match up with. I would start with Ill Will, Gallo and Lee.
    I would throw J.Hill but he is still in the incubator and isn’t ready yet for prime time yet. But he really needs to see the floor because he is a legit player who just needs to to find his game in the pros.

  • manners

    Problem, as I see it, is that we need better and more, importantly, consistent guard play. if the team had a better point guard, in my opinion, we would be at .500 by now. I hear that DW brought in one of his boys, as another set of eyes, to observe the team. Here’s hoping that after evaluations he makes a move for a point guard. Lebron is going to stay a Cav so lets use some of those expiring contracts and go out and get a young guard

  • BiggieSmalls

    I think during that period Hughes had a groin or hamstring problem.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    the strengths on this team are the guys who the coach has encouraged to step a little beyond themselves.

    most of you killed chandler earlier in the year. it was the coach who pushed him to shoot a lot.

    Gallinari, whom many thought was a bust pick has had really solid moments and has responded to a bunch of minutes.

    Lee has taken, and made, jumpshots that many people thought he’d never make.

    Duhon’s issue is that he tries to do too much along the lines of the other players but he’s limited.

    and jeffries has anchored the defense, past few games or not with a tremendous boost from the coach.

    yes, there are holes and the coach does not deserve ALL the credit but he’s allowed players to go beyond themselves.

  • Mucha

    He was out one week, if he was not ready to contribute then he was not ready to contribute, period! He shouldn’t play if he’s obviously conductive to losing!

    Then the Knicks turned a 1 point lead into a 9 point deficit with Larry Hughes in Detroit when Mike D’Antoni brought him back into the rotation.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    But duhon is the point guard.

    He really does things as a PG that go unnoticed, but if he’s not scoring then his overall lack of skill is highlighted.

    Which is to say when they are playing slow the game, more often than not, is in their favor and he controls the tempo.

    Nate does the opposite.

    the knicks are a better offensive team with duhon in the lineup because of the speed of the game.

    When nate is playing fast and hitting shots he is very effective, but not everyone can keep up with him- hence it turns into the nate show with some guys banging down shots.

    when nate is wheeling the guy who gets frozen out from driving is chandler.

    duhon gets chandler touches on the regular, not just lee.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Which is what makes Duhon a great backup PG in a system that is really fast, because he’d change the pace.

    now it’s the opposite with a slower first unit and a much faster paced 2nd unit.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Chandler became infinitely more valuable when he stopped jacking up threes at a rate not seen since this coach was in PHX.

    Anyone who thought Gallo was a bust was referring to his back issues.. you couldnt miss his dead eye shot.. but can he continue to build on his game and take the wear and tear of an NBA season?

    If this team has to rely on Lee taking jumpers then we are doomed to the 5/6 seed for the next half dozen years and a quick playoff exit. He hasnt advanced one iota on defense and has arguably regressed in the past two years.

    Duhon’s issue is that he is incredibly slow, has no hops and no lateral quickness and cant make a decision if it doesnt involve a pick and roll to Lee.

    JJ was a defensive player before he came here.. It was Isaiah that tried to reinvent him. He still hasnt learned to finish consistently around the rim — and he is almost 7 foot.

    sorry to throw cold water on this.

  • BiggieSmalls

    getting the ball to chandler involves just giving him the ball on the high post and letting him drive past his player.

    i dont see much creativity in the Chandler/Duhon relationship..

    No question when Duhon plays well this team wins but — as we can see — he is playing well less. and not as consistently. Is this a result of playing 40 plus minutes duringthe first half? It was last year. All we know is Duhon hasnt openly complained of injury but we can see that his game has deteriorated beyond the level of even a back up in the past 8-10 games.

    I was never a proponent of Nate as Point guard. so to me it is not a Nate or Duhon debate. Hughes has now been so ostracised even reasonable people like Mucha are ready to completely write him off. And i really dont think Hughes has said anything publicly that should completely ostracise him from the rotation.

    He just sucked for 7-10 games because — as we all know — he was hurt with a groin problem.

    I dont mind the “Nate show” so long as someone is initiating it .. and not Nate. Duhon doesnt really seem to have the smarts to find the hot guy and keep going to him.. which surprises me cause i though he was a “classic point guard”

  • asumets

    Lee is the leader of this team. Duhon played great for the first half of last year and then fans (including myself) thought that it was “his legs that gave out” toward the end of the year and the fact is teams figured him out. He isn’t that athletic and his basketball IQ is high enough to be a nice backup (a la Charlie Ward. All due respect Ward was nice and a true Knick, but not championship starting quality) He is like the Oliver Perez of baseball and thank God DW has the foresight…I sure didn’t.

  • BiggieSmalls

    if you remember Nate was on exile island so Hughes had to play with a bad groin or the coach would have had to go to Douglas as the primary guard.

    There were times in that stretch where the coach played 5 forwards to rest Hughes or because he was clearly hurt..

    Im not saying run him out there for 35 minutes.. BUt as the coach said — some players have to play their way out of it .. Lord knows we’ve waited long enough for Duhon to get out of it..

    I think that players just need consistent minutes and know what their role is — when they are expected to come in etc..that he just thre Hughes in there with no warning is just a little vindictive.

  • Mucha

    “some players have to play their way out of it .. Lord knows we’ve waited long enough for Duhon to get out of it..”

    Good point – but I think Hughes doesn’t deserve to play right now! His comments about Mike D’Antoni were disgraceful! He said “I just want to play”, Mike D’Antoni gave him minutes against the Pistons – he gave him what Hughes was waiting for! How could you complain about that – I mean wasn’t he supposed to be ready to play? Does he need a VIP invitation card?

    Come on Big, I think HUGHES looks like the vindicative person out there.

  • Qaspec

    I agree Hydro…Sorry Xman you lost me when you said you would tell Hughes you would “Star” him….

    you make it seem like Dantoni’s is doing such a horrible job and make it seem like even when they win it should have been by 30 but it was only by 10 because of Dantoni.

    Meanwhile you make it seem so easy but you couldn;t answer Tommy’s question. He said basically if you were the coach what would you do and your reply basically was “I expect us to lose”…at least Dantoni tries and beleives the team can win.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    He’s not…he’s a classic backup.

    and don’t discount the chandler stuff…chandler gets more touches with duhon…fact.

  • x-man

    Tommy Dee,

    The strength of this team as I see is as follows:

    1. Gallo is our best pure shooter by far.
    2. N8 is our best athlete that can create for HIMSELF crate match-up issue for opposing teams
    3. Chandler has improved somewhat but should be much better.
    4. Lee is our best rebounder and has improved his short range shot.
    5. JJ is our best defender which isn’t saying much.

    NOW the question, are we using these strengths smartly?

    NO NO NO NO NO

    1. Gallo needs spacing and a half second to get his shot off accurately. If his feet aren’t set, he shoots like Gerald Wilkens. So do we set picks and screens for this dude to free him. NO Is he a go to guy in key moments to get offense? NO

    2. N8 is brought into games to facilitate is seems now. Is that N8 strength? NO If N8 isn’t asked to create his own offense then he’s a shell of himself.

    3. LEE is best on the pick and roll and when he gets offensive rebounds to put back in. Having Lee dribble to create his won offense rendered everyone else watching.

    4. JJ takes 3s which is a big NO NO NO!

    FINALLY,

    This team has NO defensive concept other than packing the paint now occasionally. Every good coach I’ve played for has schemes to take away certain aspects from the opponent while allowing certain things.

    We have to know the strengths of the opposing teams in order to try to take away that from them. Sometimes this strength may change during the game.

    We are a dumb team that has no good understanding of our own strengths, opposing team’s strengths and how to use or combat them.

    I could go on and on but please listen to the players in their interviews and you will hear low b-ball IQ!

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    it’s actually not true about chandler and the 3s…he shot one less in dec than he did in Nov (39-38)…he was awesome the whole month aside from lee he was the team’s best player.

  • x-man

    That was suppose to be “Start Hughes”

    I answered Tommy question in that against LA, it does not matter who we start if winning is the key.

    However, I gave the starting line-up i would use generally. Why that lineup?

    Well, because Hughes is our best all-around experienced pt guard. Douglas should get more PT because we need to know if he’s in our plans for the BIG 2010 and beyond.

    Also, I would go to Hughes to refute his contention that the coach does not communicate with his players. Also, I would set the tone that I not only communicate what I want, I would also hold them ACCOUNTABLE.

    You see Hughes can talk all he wants but if he’s being treated fairly like anyone else and held accountable, he has No one to blame but himself. That’s the pt.

    Just like any workplace, workers can see if accountability and fairness is there.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    just don’t see it that way…gallo has proven to hit huge shots in the 4th quarter. gerald wilkins? stop.

    lee off the dribble is a tremendous asset.

    jeffries doesn’t shoot that many threes…

    nate’s roll is to, in the coach’s own words, is to be nate and go…

  • x-man

    Tommy Tommy Tommy,

    What does Duhon has over you and this organization?

    Duhon is a inconsistent backup pt guard at best. our coach is even calling him a person that loses his confidence quickly. YIKES!

    You want Steve Irkel that to be our pt guard? “Did i do thaaaaaat?”

    Duhon loses his confidence because he gets overwhelmed with the responsibility of understanding where ALL of his teammates needs the ball to be effective plus his other many assignments.

    He has acid reflux moments because he’s best suited on the bench!

  • x-man

    It’s a business dude. These players are paid millions to be held accountable and produce.

    the coach needs to tell Hughes what he wants and make him live up to it. That will go a long way with this team and set the stage for all to be treated similarly.

    The coach is a big boy and he needs to put his personal feeling aside. If Hughes can’t help us on the court, he should be in street clothes

  • BiggieSmalls

    i was actually thinking vs last year.. i think he put up close to 80 in November of last year

  • x-man

    Come on Tommy, Gallo needs space to get his shot off. Watch him closely. Better teams are starting to push their D up on him to make him put it on the floor. This is 101. When Gallo puts it on the floor, he’s a lesser threat now!

    Also Gallo will usually defer or pass to others if he does not have that space. It’s very obvious. Gallo needs picks and screens. Although he’s not a #2, even Reggie miller needed to be run off of screens to free him up and he had a very quick release. Gallo, does not have the quickest release and his feet needs to be set to be more accurate.

    Lee dribbling is fine against big centers like Duncan but against Althetic teams like the Thunder, Lee dribbling can stripped or becomes a liability

    JJ doesn’t shoot many 3s, JJ shoot shoot ANY 3s. We have designated 3 shooters so why should JJ or all people shoot them? That’s like saying Minute Bol didn’t take many 3s.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Lee gets near 50% of Duhon’s assists.. fact.

  • HaS

    I would agree with you Mucha, but this is this coach’s modus operandi. He is a liar and he’s stubborn as an ox.

  • x-man

    So True! Some says Duhon feeds Gallo but Gallo doesn’t even know who Duhon is!

    If teams cover the pick and roll with him and Lee, Duhon goes East-West all nite!

  • BiggieSmalls

    im not going to defend Hughes’ comments but they by no means are a death sentence.

    And i dont think that his statements should mean that he sits.. If the coach did that he would be more stubborn than we even say he is..

    Im down for giving him regualr minutes if he can help.. i undertstand that he is uber streaky and may go 5-7 games where down right sucks on teh offensive end..

    You remember i was slamming him bad when he came here… i didnt want him but now that he is here its not like he is a long term piece..

    He is a mercenary of the highest order. i dont really care about him but duhon Sucks and there isnt another viable point guard on the roster with any experience.

    i respectfully disagree if you are saying sit him because of his statements.

  • BiggieSmalls

    correction.. last year Chandler’s three point attempts were:

    57 in November
    60 in December
    54 in January

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    if you haven’t seen gallo shoot over people then you aren’t watching. he did it today over, i believe, Daye. right when he was on him.

    yes, he needs to be able to put it on the ground more. he will.

    he’s 21.

  • x-man

    Yes, i know he should improve with putting the ball on the floor in the years to come.

    However, we know he is already our best shooter when given time and space. So why does our coach not take advantage of this fact?

    Most good teams do this for their best shooters if they can create for themselves.

    This is what i mean about knowing ans using our strengths.

    But you dove help prove my pt, in that Gallo does shoot over a person every now and then but then he becomes Gerald Wilkens.

    JJ hits a shot every now and then too but do you want this dude shooting the ball?

    If you think Gallo has the agility to shoot over people consistently or take it off the dribble strongly to the rim NOW, you’re too busy looking at Duhon go East-West! lol

  • Mucha

    It took him (Mike D’Antoni) too long to realize that he had to sacrifice his sacrosanct system to win basketball games. You’re absolutely right from that perspective HaS. But thank God he made some adjustments. I have nothing against his short rotation – I actually believe that it is conductive to winning – but some players will break down (Chris Duhon, David Lee). He went too far. The fact that Jordan Hill was out of the rotation was ridiculous considering Jared Jeffries, Al Harrington and David Lee’s playing time, and I think Toney Douglas should have seen more minutes when Nate Robinson was in the doghouse. He should have been more “subtle” with Larry Hughes when he was obviously not playing well enough to play again since he is LeBron’s friend. Last but least, he doesn’t run enough plays for Gallinari when he’s struggling.

    But hey, this team has been playing 50% basketball since December with two scrubs (Jared Jeffries and Chris Duhon) and two kids (Danilo Gallinari 21 years old, Wilson Chandler 22 years old) in the starting line-up. That’s extraordinary. I mean damn!

    David Lee looks like an All-Star thanks to Mike D’Antoni. The fact that David Lee’s playing like a point center with the high pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop is brilliant. This role was tailor-made for him. And what about Jared Jeffries? He cannot shoot, he cannot handle the ball, he cannot make plays for his teammates, he cannot finish under the basket, he cannot make lay-ups… and his man defense sucks. The fact that he has been a key player for us defensively is just crazy man… Great coaching. And I think he did a good job with Nate Robinson. The Knicks are now reaping the benefits of his benching.

    I understand why some of you guys dislike Mike D’Antoni. But at the of the day his team is playing relatively well which is quite impressive. Criticism is cool (I love to read your posts Has, Biggie and x-man… and DaGawd lol – no shots) but I think the coach also deserves credit.

  • Mucha

    “If Hughes can’t help us on the court, he should be in street clothes”

    Why? What if Chris Duhon breaks his leg and Nate Robinson litteraly jumps out the building? I think Hughes needs to be ready to play but he’s just not good enough to play right now! I honestly don’t know what personal feelings have to do with that.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    i don’t get the wilkins reference at all…it’s clearly out of context.

    gallo can create space for himself, but struggles against more long and athletic defenders.

    his issue is that they don’t have a breakdown player consistently.

    wait until that happens.

    it’s amazing how people go from “the kid will be hurt his whole career” to “efficient 15ppg isn’t enough for a 21 year old.”

    lol.

  • Mucha

    I wouldn’t give him the benefit of the doubt because of his statements. He’s not playing well enough right now, but you never know – he might come back with a 30 point performance one day but I don’t know why he should be given the benefit of the doubt since the fact that he played in Detroit was a “joke”.

    Since he is not prepared to play, let him sit on the bench a couple of weeks. But if he’s ready to play – both mentally and physically – give him some minutes. But you know, Mike D’Antoni did it against the Pistons, but it was counterproductive statistically and he even got blasted for it. I mean what the hell??

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    this is a great post…and here’s my thing because everyone gets on me.

    next year expectations should rise.

    If he gets outcoached in a playoff series then he’ll hear about it.

    bottom line is that D’antoni is the antithesis of knick coaches, but he has a lot of Holzman in him offensively. That is true.

    But like clyde said coaches have to hold players accountable for defense.

    I read people say he lets this guy slide, is too short with this guy, so one and so forth.

    Has anyone ever coached before? or even played at that competitive a level?

    Ever hold practices and stand on a sideline?

    EVERY COACH treats each player differently on any level especially the NBA.

    they have their favorites, those who they feel play the right way, and those who they have to push the right buttons.

    then you have those who are going to do whatever they want to do….

    it’s no different anywhere.

    the NBA is about SUPERSTARS.

    period.

  • BiggieSmalls

    I have nothing against his short rotation – I actually believe that it is conductive to winning – but some players will break down (Chris Duhon, David Lee).

    sooo how can a system be conductive to winning if your players break down in it?

    I don tthink the lack of accountability on the defensive end is a good thing at all. JJ is playing as he was expected when he signed his exhorbitant contract.. and he is being used in his intended fashion.. props to the coach for realizing something the previous “coach” could not.. But enouraging him to EVER shoot a three is just beyond insane.

    Chandler is talented. We knew that. last year he was jacking up three’s at a historic rate even though he is a low 30% shooter. His best role is as a slasher and occasional open three shooter.. i like that part of his game and want him here given his age, COST (the most important thing) and the fact that he may be “getting it”//

    As much credit as the coach gets for turning water into wine remember that no one thought this was a 32 win team LAST YEAR and most reasoned, pessimistic people expected a slight improvement this year (I said 35-38 wins) .. And lets not forget that the Eastern Conference is MUCH MUCH worse than what ANYONE expected.

    35 wins MAY get you a playoff berth in the east. that is crazy.

  • BiggieSmalls

    and i’ve always said that if JJ is making 2.5-3.5 mil a year then you keep him.. But at 6-7 mil per year he is an albatross..

    JJ should be playing 22-28 minuets a game.. THAT. IS. IT. If he is around next year as an expiring then hopefully that is where he will be..

    But as a part of a seven man rotation (with the 8th man getting 5 minutes) that is tough to do mathematically.. unless hte other 6 guys are in the 40 minute range.

  • Mucha

    “sooo how can a system be conductive to winning if your players break down in it?”

    You did not understand what I was trying to say. I like the 8-man rotation (intrinsically) but if the bench players only play 2 positions (for example Harrington-Bender : wings, Nate Robinson : guard) and receive limited minutes on top of that (Robinson, Bender) some players WILL break down. But if Nate Robinson and Al Harrington play more than 30 minutes and Jordan Hill gets 15 minutes everynight (with a couple minutes for Douglas), the starters will not break down and the 8-man rotation is not a problem!

    Wilson Chandler used to shoot to many 3′s but Mike D’Antoni made the right adjustments. He reportedly told him to take shots he was comfortable with – and now he’s one of the most effective players on our team! D’Antoni took some time – right – but he did it!

    I think last year’s team without the hot start (led by Jamal and Z-Bo) = 28-29 wins. The Eastern Conference is bad no doubt about that but I’d much rather play against the 2008-2009 76ers/Pistons than the 2009-2010 Raptors/Bobcats… I understand your point though.

  • BiggieSmalls

    who are the super stars on this team that cant benefit from some teaching and deserve special treatment?

    is this just your way of saying you agree that the coach doesnt hold everyone to the same standard of accountability on the basketball court and you are OK with it?

    In my experiences when you treat people differently you wind up with exactly what this coach has — some players who buy in and dont correct their mistakes and another group of players who loathe the coach./

  • BiggieSmalls

    thats why i have been saying repeatedly it is a myth that this coach uses an 8 man rotation.

    he uses a seven man rotation with the 8th player getting maybe 5 minutes. and he does it inexplicably on back to back nights.

    when you say short rotation call a spade a spade.. some use kinder words like “tight” but what we have MOST OF THE TIME is truly a seven man rotation. And it is not because of the talent on the bench. It is a core philosophy of this coach.

    you can either agree with it and defend it or disagree with it and speak out against it.. But you cant call it what it is not.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    In my experiences when you treat people differently you wind up with exactly what this coach has — some players who buy in and dont correct their mistakes and another group of players who loathe the coach./

    does that include head coaching experience?

    every player wants to play…if you don’t you don’t like the coach.

    that’s not really all that uncommon…

  • BiggieSmalls

    what was a joke was he was out of the rotation and all of a sudden the coach called his name and he is in the game.

    ideally everyone should be ready at all times.. but we’ve seen instances of better players not having their shoes tied on the bench ..

    should he have been ready to go ? yes.. should the coach said simply “be ready tonight”// I think that isnt too much to ask..

    we all know Hughes is ultra streaky.. that is why he has jumped around so much in the league.. that is why i hated his guts before he came here. but im not asking for 35 plus inutes a night..

    I think the coach put him in out of spite because hughes went to Walsh. and knew that he wouldnt be “ready” but wanted to teach him a lesson.

  • BiggieSmalls

    i had two questions before that quote..

    i think if you communicate peoples roles and responsibilities they can at least say this guy is a straight shooter and is honest..

    that is simply not happening with this coach. from day one. period.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Those numbers just aren’t accurate….

  • Mucha

    OK I think we share the same opinion. It is mathematically an 8-man rotation but concretely a 6.5/7 man rotation… I mean it’s just a matter of perception.

    Give Hill 20 minutes, Harrington 30 minutes and Robinson 30 minutes and I’m fine with this 8-man rotation!

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    again, those numbers just aren’t accurate….

    today was the prime example of how he should divide minutes…

    maybe sneak Douglas in for a few minutes…that would be my only beef.

    and big, don’t you want to see gallo and chandler play 35 plus against the lakers?

  • x-man

    I hear Tommy but next time please try watching the games without sitting next to Duhon family while their cell phone with the Verizon Network map isn’t blobking the TV!

    I have stated that I think Gallo is our best shooter with the most upside. My pt is that Gallo is still developing and he’s not the complete player than he will be in years to come.

    We need to take advantage of his strength. Gallo at this pt is not nearly the threat when he puts the ball on the floor. Most of the time, when he takes it to the rim, he’s weak and tries to AVOID contact.

    But give him time, he should be better and the Wilkens comparison is based on Gallo accuracy when he’s not set and given space. When Gallo isn’t set, he the shooter Wilkens was when he was left alone! That’s the pun! lol

  • BiggieSmalls

    not completely but very close.

    48 minutes in a game.
    5 players = 240 available minutes

    if 6 players get 36 minutes that leaves 24 minutes
    240-(6×36)

  • BiggieSmalls

    6 guys get 35 minutes
    one guy gets 24 and the “8th man” gets 6

    that is a typical D’Antoni rotation.. look at the game logs.

    if you want complete accuracy ill be happy to oblige.. if I am a minute off here or there you cant say off hand something is completely “inaccurate” when it is the philosophy that is in question.

  • x-man

    We’re saying the same thing I believe. Hughes can help us so that’s why he’s not in street clothes.

    Until he can’t help us, he needs to be told what the coach expects him to do.

    The pt here is that we are hurting at the pt guard position and the coach needs to open up as well. Even Giants coach Coughlin had to change his ways and communicate better with his players!

    The coach is paid to get the most out of this players and hold them accountable! Anything else is personal b.s.

    If i was a coach, a player can say what they want to the media but when they don’t do what I asked them to do on the court and etc, they are held accountable. Simple as that!

    We can’t keep having million dollar players keep in DAntoni personal dungeon all saying the same thing.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    oh, ok…good one.

    and Duhon’s family won’t associate with Maryland Terrapins.

  • BiggieSmalls

    so todays minutes where

    JJ – 37
    DG – 36
    DL – 35
    CD – 20
    WC – 34
    AH – 30
    NR – 33
    JH – 15
    Hill got some minutes that Nate/Duhon would normally get..

    Lets look at Friday against the raps — typical D’Antoni
    JJ – 31
    DG – 42
    DL – 48
    CD – 37
    AH – 38
    NR – 16
    JB – 5
    is that an “8 man rotation”?

    how about Wednesday against the 76ers
    JJ – 43
    DG – 33
    DL – 45
    CD – 32
    WC – 37
    AH – 26
    JB – 8
    NR – 16
    8 man rotation?

  • x-man

    Tommy Dee,

    I truly hear ya pt but you seem to neglect that this coach had something many other coaches didn’t have from the start.

    1. We had NO superstars when he arrived.
    2. Isiah tenure and departure ave this coach full authority
    3. No real expectations
    4. A chance to rebuild in NY. That’s right in NY for the first time in decades.

    This wasn’t a coach that came in with a Kobe or Kidd on the team that had to get along.

    This coach should have come in and laid down the law from the start and made sure he was building a system and players for 2010 period.

    There is absolutely NO accountability of both ends of the floor. It’s not just about liking this coach, it’s about what has this coach done to put this organization on a path of good sustainability.

    We don’t ever learn from the past or history. We are like the SD chargers not learning that Norm Turner is a block head in the playoffs and big games. Did you watch that move for the on-side kick yesterday. My Jets Thanks him very much. Yet, Norm is getting a 3 year extension.

    Similar thing with the Dallas coach. People keeping doing the same bad thing expecting a different result.

    Do we have to build the PHX Suns again in 2010 before some of ya see that this coach’s philosophy is severely flawed!?

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    he played 9 guys the other night including hughes who got 9 minutes.

    today was very balanced. so the last 2 games he hasn’t followed the rotation you claim.

    yes he plays 8 players often, but there is no evidence that it runs players down.

    Phoenix players are NOT worse for wear.

    If those players want to stay here they better get used to playing minutes.

    and who complains about TOO MANY minutes anyway?

  • x-man

    lol

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Interesting that you avoided the other night with hughes…

    i guess Nash is burnt out too…these guys are in their 20s…geez.

    they should WANT minutes.

  • BiggieSmalls

    Since the Thunder game was a blow out we can ignore that game.. but lets go back to the Rockets two nights before (1-9)

    JJ – 39
    DG – 32
    DL -45
    CD – 35
    WC – 40
    JB – 17
    NR – 28
    ML – 4
    8 man rotation ? you sure about that?

  • BiggieSmalls

    hey read the press in Boston.. where they are skewering Doc for burnin out your boy Rondo.. with too many minutes..

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    rondo wants to be treated like a star…he’s getting star minutes.

    good for Doc.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Interesting that you avoided the other night with hughes…

    i guess Nash is burnt out too…these guys are in their 20s…geez.

    they should WANT minutes.

  • BiggieSmalls

    we’ve already seen instances of not being able to close out games cause their tounges are hanging out from playing all these minutes..

    when the coach cant run practice in late feb because the starters are all in the cold tub we’ll see what happens..

    the coach had to give the starters a practice off earlier last week..

    additionally, flawed role players simply get exposed when counted on for 35 plus a night. there are no super stars on this team.

    we’ll ahve to agree to disagree.. but ive seen some of your post game write ups when you’ve said they players were gassed down teh stretch because of the short rotation.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    but they come back with legs the next game! and after 3 games in 4 nights like today.

    come on man this is the NBA.

    Hill has been put in two games now…let’s see how that plays out.

  • x-man

    That’s because Rondo has to play defense too, they have no real good backup plus the Celtics have big plans for a ring.

    Nash plays NO defense so he’ll only get burnt out when he can’t dribble or shoot the ball well.

    Tony Parker would like nuthin more than to see Nash in the playoffs!

  • BiggieSmalls

    liker you said.. everyone WANTS to play.. but its up to the coach to maintain a long term focus and utilze all his assets..

    Nash has only been over 35 mpg average two years in his career.

  • BiggieSmalls

    the coach has a long history of his philosophy regarding his “tight” rotation.

    i’d love to see hill play more and hope he does..

  • BiggieSmalls

    we’ll agree to disagree.. but next time the coach plays 7 plus a 5 minute guy on back to backs and you write int eh wrap up that the guys looked “gassed” and had “tired legs” because the shots just wont fall ill be sure to comment that this is the NBA and you shouldnt have any problem playing 35 plus every night.

  • x-man

    I truly believe the issue is not burning out with our players!

    1. They don’t play hard and focused on the defensive end so burn out isn’t the real issue. Lee and Harrington should NEVER EVER burn out.

    2. The issue is that we don’t have the luxury of playing 6-7 players each night because those 6-7 aren’t very smart or a winning solution against better teams!

    3. Playing 6-7 players is shortsighted for developing younger players for 2010 and beyond.

    4. Duhon didn’t start to play bad because he was burned out last year, he played bad because he’s just not that good. The longer he plays, the more we see why the Bulls had him on the bench as a backup.

  • BiggieSmalls

    i agree there are more reasons to HATE this 7 plus rotation

    Committing heavy minutes to these mediocre players makes it very easy to expose them.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    And the Knicks don’t have anyone in the top 23 in minutes per game.

  • http://theKnicksBlog.com Tommy Dee

    Yes, I understand the point of not liking the short rotation…i just don’t agree that it’s that big a deal.

    many teams in the NBA suffer from “tired legs” the pistons did yesterday.

    I believe the recaps that you are so conveniently referring to are pointing out tired legs on back to backs and as i said, even NBA teams who play 10 guys have that issue.

  • BiggieSmalls

    you’re better than that.

    they have three in the top 50.