Recap: Wolves 112 Knicks 91

donnie is a genius

first he signed danni boy then duhon=thats genius..

that game was sad knicks were winning for 10+ an lost by 21

please sell this franchise to som1 that knows about the sport..

Your last thought Tommy is correct, but now it may just be too late. I never underestimate the power of the deadline as the day approaches, but as our record lower, the worse images our “assets” get. Although there are several GM’s out there who know full well the the utilities of players such as Nate, Lee and JJ, we gotta admit that the picture doesn’t get any brighter.
This game came down to having heart and will, and I just didn’t see much of that out there.
I’m not even gonna keep insiting on the idea that Duhon, despite having a mediocre (which is good for him, horrible overall) game, doesn’t belong on the court. At this point, I don’t care whether he is the only “floor general” this team has.
Whether Mike D wants or not, this season seems pretty much lost, and I gotta think that if Walsh had the chance to pull any kind of trade before today he would’ve done it, so I don’t really expect something to happen any time soon.

Other than just venting:

Lee looks like he’s straining and aiming as he is obviously trying to extend his shooting range by shooting from farther and farther out. It is throwing his shot off. Top of the key is about it for him. Did he really think that attempted three was a good idea? Or did his “snub” cause a WTF moment?Love, OTOH, shot the three effortlessly. Much better range than I realized.

Gallo is starting to look frustrated and seems to be losing contact out there. i don’t understand why, when Lee is resting, Gallo can’t be allowed to run the P and R in Lee’s place. Give the kid a chance to play inside the arc since they aren’t running anything for him outside the arc.

Nate didn’t lose the game. that was a team effort. Maybe his hammy is worse than we know. Maybe playing “under control” is sucking the spirit out of him. Either way, it is the team’s job to win, not his alone.

Chandler had another good night in front of the Minn brass. Maybe he’s trying to disprove Kahn’s statement. Maybe he wouldn’t mind escaping the NY spotlight to a more quiet place.

On that note, young players often get caught up in worrying about the swirling trade rumors at this time of year, and lose focus. Usually they settle down right after the deadline passes. Anybody who thinks they don’t hear the whispers is in denial.

amen boots … gallo is such a good passer for a big man he should run that 2 man game instead of DuDu …. ala Turkaglu ….

and i will say this as far as chandler goes … to start the season i said he was a product of a system and doesnt play to this stregnths …
a 6’7” 2guard who wants to heave 3′s all games… first 10 games into the season looked like i was right .. but since then he has proved me wrong
When he’s putting the ball on the floor and taking the ball to the rack taking advantage of his size and quickness he shows the potential of becoming a very good player in this league

I hate to keep harping on this, but the coaching is a problem. There are just too many of these unacceptable performances, and nothing ever changes. Nate Robinson was left out there long enough to be a a -33 tonight, while Hughes once again does not play a second. That in itself is a sign of either incredible stubbornness, or just plain stupidity.

this is the low point of the season thus far, which is saying a lot after being 1-9.

having said that, i know Donnie won’t panic and trade any of the young guys unless it is a no-brainer where the knicks get real polished talent in return. That doesnt include draft picks or JJ dumping.

And under no circumstances should Bender or Hughes see the court again. Especially Hughes. The guys is a cancer. Just ask the Bulls. They took JEROME JAMES for him.I much rather see Nate, TD and even Duhon who i could almost guarantee wouldn’t act the way Hughes did if he got benched.

At some point you have to try something different. I don’t love Hughes either, but he was contributing earlier when he was playing. I’d have no problem with giving Douglas a legitimate chance either. To leave a guy out there at -33? Awful decision making.

I can’t put this on Nate and I don’t put much stock in +- stuff. There are so many factors other than the player being evaluated that have a baring on that stat.

How does a coach look if he plays a guy who calls his decision making a joke? I’m done with Hughes. And he sucks anyway. More than Duhon IMO.

Won’t argue on the “stubborn” part. Unfortunately, most coaches around the league are known for their hard headed and stubborn personalities.
The thing is, when you look down at what the bench has to offer, aside from Hill and Toney D, this coach doesn’t have much to work with. Hughes brings a different angle, yes, but it’s one we’ve seen before. Frankly, I’d rather have TD running the show. If by some miracle these trades happen, I’d look for any type of depth so Hughes and Duhon don’t appear near the bench ever again.

He was contrubuting – not “earlier when he was playing” but before he started averaging 0.200 FG% plus a negative assist-per-turnover ratio. Not to mention his comments about Mike D’Antoni.

The Knicks should trade Toney Douglas ASAP if he’s not good enough to contribute. If he is, then he should see more minutes.

I have to say that the Mets under Willie Randolph (circa September 2007 – that was the EPIC collapse year) played with more fire….

I’m not sure you can blame D’Antoni. It’s not like he drafted Jordan Hill and signed Chris Duhon instead of drafting Brandon Jennings or signing a real point guard.

we really need to get that pick back from the jazz.

No,no,no. Not Hughes. I noticed in the boxscore that Duhon was a far superior -2 tonight. He should have gotten more minutes.

He’s such an energizer, that Duhon.

But Hughes +/- was 33 points better than Nates.

18 days until the deadline if i’m correct

donnie make moves

lee chandler an gallo are your only ticket
to gettin rid of curry an jeff

u can be patient but the fan won’t

an donnie u messed up bringing in danni boy an paying 12 13 mill for duhon a back ups back up

sad

it’s hard to trade back for your pick especially when it’s a lottery pick

if lee wasn’t an expiring i think it could be done..

Harris,

When your entire bench scores 8 points in over 40 minutes, you’re likely to see negative numbers all over the place. Nate was out there the longest so, intuitively, you would expect his numbers to be proportionately more horrendous. It is the entire bench (starters too, but to a lesser degree) that failed.

Putting Hughes on the court for Nate wuold have just distributed the negatives between the two, nothing more.

I am in no way excusing Nate’s play. He is one of many who sucked tonight. Not having watched the game, reading the boxscore was enough to make me queasy

I agree. No christmas presents for either.

the knicks should trade for Arenas and send him over to Utah to ask for it back, or else.

Hey if JJ can shoot six 3s on this team than why not Lee?

Maybe Mr. Double Double was told that if he hits a 3, it becomes a triple triple!… Just saying!

Yeah Tommy Dee, It’s a nice time to hit the phones now when other GMs have had time to inspect the goods to see that they are mostly rotten!

lol they got d.will
make anas the s.g?

I think most of the entire bench stays on the bench on most nights! I see you were spared from watching the game!

Douglas got 3 mins though! Good thing it was a back to back game.!

I hear ya but Hughes does have a pt about this coach. It shouldn’t be personal. The coach should put Hughes a-s-s out on the court to help this team and if he doesn’t do what is asked, he should ream his a-s-s in public. you don’t take millionaire assets and get all sensitive and personal instead of utilizing them as the tools they are.

Hughes is quicker than Duhon and so is everyone else!

Tommy Dee,

You still there? lol Do ya still think JJ don’t shoot 3s? Now Lee wants to shoot 3s too! Can’t be the coach huh?

You’re a funny dude Tommy! This coach can’t possibly be Isiah because I can’t believe I would ever be saying this but Isiah was better…which isn’t saying much! OMG OMG

or else he’s going to aim a firearm and shit in there sneakers?

This is very obviously a very painful period, but we have to stop thinking about winning and focus on the development of the young players. In other words, forget the score and simply look for positive signs from Lee, Chandler, Gallo, Hill and Douglas. These are all young players. As long as they continue to improve and we add some pieces on 2010 and 2011 with our cap space we will be fine.

When I watched the game, the score didn’t even matter to me. I noticed that Chandler seems to have 100% of his athleticism back and I’m happy to see that he’s finally made the progress as a player I hoped for. I’m also starting to recognize what he has to do to get better. It seems to me that almost every game he fills out other parts of the box score (rebounds and assists) in the first half very well but doesn’t do much other than score in the 2nd half. I’ve seen it so may times now, there must be something to it and it has to be corrected. He lets down in the second half or gets tired etc.. but something is amiss. All he does is score.

The second thing I noticed was how bad Hill is setting a pick. He starts to roll before he has even picked the guy and the play is broken immediately. That’s something he has to work on (finishing also).

That’s what this season is about.

Watching the kids, finding their weakness and strengths and rooting for them to develop and become better players over the remaining half of the season.

We were never going to go far anyway. Even if by some fluke we got the 8th seed we were one and done. So forget all that and watch the kids.

As the expression goes, “Shooting is contagious,” and I might add “either way.”

The last couple of weeks, I’ve found myself wishing that, rather than have the end of the bench clogged up with Curry, Darko, Hughes, the ghost of Mobley, at least one more “off the bench” shooter was on the roster. I realize that two players don’t dress, but having three players who are basically permanently unavailable really leaves the bench thin in terms of having a specialist or two available

A few makes can change the complexion of a game, and hide a wealth of turn-overs and bad play. A few makes can be contagious to the other shooters on the floor. If Nate and Harrington are mis-firing, there needs to be someone else to come in.

Chandler is, despite all his promise, not a two. This team lacks a bona fide two and it lacks a bona fide two off the bench.

Yea, that’s been a complaint of mine for forever.

D’Antoni is much to forgiving of bad shooters taking 3 pointers. To be quite honest, the only player on this team that should EVER take a 3 pointer is Gallo. The only other time it is forgivable is when the shock clock is an issue.

The average starter in the NBA has a TS% of around 55%. That’s FG% plus extra credit for 3 pointers and fouls drawn. For a player to equal a 55% TS% on his 3s he has to hit about 37% of his 3 pointers otherwise he is making a strategic mistake. When you have players that shoot 28%-32% chucking up a lot of 3s, that is simply horrible coaching.

Since you nihilists want to start over and want that pick back, would it be worth offering Gallo for the pick?

It would take a lot of tanking to get enough balls in the tank to make it worthwhile.

Thoughts?

they can have lee hill and chandler if they want.i want wall.even moreso if phila gift wraps the 2010 championship to cleveland by sending iggy over there.

i love the cock no homo (lol) but i’d probably do it.gallinari is going to be a power forward, david lee is a power forward out of position, i guess i the jazz wouldn’t take lee and would rather have gallo, then i guess i’d have to do it.wall is going to be a superstar, and i doubt gallo ever gets to superstar status.so a chance at wall > gallo.

i’d then move all our other productive players and play duhon and harrington every minute of every game for the rest of the season.

I agree but Lee will be 27 years old already. He’s a veteran.

Regrettably enough, a huge part of D’antoni’s “strategy” is based on sharp shooting and what he refers as “fast break”. Of course, since before NYC he’s never had the cance to implement different systems, I can only guess he’s attempting what the common folk call “improvise”, aka, calling an audible, winging it, the famous “off the top of my head”, etc, etc.
You have to appreciate Chandler’s presence. He makes losses that should be by 30 turn into 10 because of his efforts when Lee’s not doing good (with all this “I’m gonna improve my range on the fly” sort of thinking). Since pretty much the whole Knicks offense runs through him, it’s good to see Will manning up to be the stronger presence. I think by next year a player like Gallo will have enough experience (plus an offseason of working in his game and some much needed gym time) to do the same thing, which I he will give him a whole new dimension, I suspect. It still remains to be seen, of course. It’s all about mentality, which right now, from the coach to the last player, is pretty much lacking.

After the first benching, didn’t D put Hughes’ ass out on the court with miserable results? His offense looked worse than Al’s. Same low IQ, but without the touch.

There are very few NBA players that I wouldn’t rather see on the court than Duhon. Unfortunately, 3 of them are on our roster.

EC, LH and AH

The sad thing is that when he first got on the floor, Hill set a good wide-legged pick. The “brush” or “show” pick that you are talking about is obviously the way the coaching staff wants him to do it.

If you notice, he is now setting picks the way the rest of the team is doing it. Watch and see if Lee ever sets a real pick.

I don’t think Lee is struggling with his shot because of his shot choice; i think he is just plain tired. You could tell by looking at him the last couple of nights, he is dead! That’s why he’s been having some careless turnovers as well.

Maybe D’Antoni has run him too hard for too long.

But clearly, there was a reason Hill wasn’t relieving him of some of those minutes. if there is such thing as “not ready”, he is that. His intangibles are special, but he’s just lost out there.

Chandler is becoming everything we all thought he could be. Also, he is lethal running the court so next year, assuming we push the tempo more, he will look even nicer. He is a stud though; and the coach definitely likes him the best.

The rest of this season is going to be boring and as we get further and further out of contention, we will start playing worse and worse. If we cannot make the playoffs, we need to make some moves right now. Move JJ, get douglas on the court.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this team is tired. They need to increase the rotation.

Lee gets plenty of rest on the defensive end!

Did ya really think we were in contention? really? really really?

Dude Hill at least tries to defend! what other inside presence we have doing that? He’s surely not ready as he will be with much PT. that is why he needs to play because the team ain’t going anywhere! We got Douglas and etc on the bench watching the refs blow past Duhon on the way down the court. You can’t run a fast break when your pt guard is slower than everyone!

Over the past few weeks there have been several common themes on this blog.
1. Many of you feel that it is the coach who is at fault for the way things are going.
2. It has also been stated that the free agent stars will not want to join our team because of the state that it is currently in.

When you coach a high school or college team it is very, very easy to deal with players who have poor attitudes. You can bench them or you can just get rid of them if they become cancerous to the team. Unfortunately, when you have players who are signed to multi-million dollar contracts, just getting rid of them is difficult. D’Antoni has too many “me first” type players. Hughes, Harrington and Robinson are not team players. They should all be gone by next season. You have Curry and Mobley taking up two roster spots. I’m afraid we are stuck with Curry. I would not be so hasty in judging D’Antoni. This is a team in transition and the players know it. The ones who are playing for new contracts are playing for themselves. They know they won’t be here next year. It is very difficult to play as a team when some players have it as their main agenda to play for themselves ($$$$$).

I’m not holding my breathe waiting to see if James, Bosh, Johnson, Wade or anyone else signs with us this summer. For us to win, the culture within the team has to change. I agreed with Nate’s benching and the present Hughes banishment. It’s the coach’s job to work out what gives the team the best chance of winning. These players are earning a fortune. It’s their job to be ready to play whenever called upon to do so. And when they’re not playing they should be supporting the group on the floor, not spitting the dummy on the bench and crying to the media about how they’ve been wronged by the coach. I’d be quite happy if we didn’t sign a “super star” for next year. Why can’t we develop our own. When you have a good culture within a team leaders emerge. Gallinari has that potential to be a leader and he also has star potential. As for Lebron, he can take his powder throwing routine somewhere else if he’s not happy about what is here. I’d be quite happy to hang onto Chandler, Gallo, Douglas, Hill, Landry, Bender and Lee and let them be the core that we add to through the draft. Next year would be pretty lean with no first round pick but we’ve gone the quick fix so many times and have usually been burned badly (Marbury, Curry, James, Francis). Why keep doing that? Get a core of players who play the right way and then add home grown talent to it. I would love to see Walsh get us some draft picks for the next two years. When you draft a player, you get to mold and develop that player. Oh, and we obviously need a point guard, as just about everyone has stated. That should be our draft priority for this year.

Lee, Gallo, Jeffries for Amare.

And I don’t even like Amare. But the Knicks are done, Jeffries is of no use to the Knicks now that the playoff dream is 100% over, so get him off the books by ANY means necessary. He’s nearly the difference between 1 max player and 2 max players, and 2 max players might be the difference in LeBron and no LeBron. So ship him, even if it means we lose 30 more games with no 2010 pick.

I can get behind Douglas/Chandler/LeBron/Hill/Amare for 2010. It’s about as good as we could realistically hope for on a ~51 million cap that Curry eats (HAHA!) 11 million off of.

After Curry comes off the books, Knicks buy a PG for 2011, and maybe we got a serious contender on our hands. Until then, let LeBron run the show in 2010 and average 35 a game and dance poorly, just bring some light at the end of the tunnel. Gallo is really good, but he’s not as useful as an Amare playing for D’Antoni is, both on the court and attracting the megastar this team completely lacks.

Good points. Notwithstanding having accomplished coaches, the Knicks have lacked chemistry for the past decade. Soon Harrington, Hughes, Milicic, and Robinson will be gone. Let us see if they wind up in prominent roles on the next team they join. Doubtful. While you may not win a chamionship without the superstars, you can be a competitive team and that is what we have not been for a decade. Let’s become a competitive team and then worry about being a championship team. Walsh preaches patience. Let us give patience a chance.

Losing might actually be a good thing…let me explain. If we were losing, I have a scary feeling Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni might not be willing to trade their favorite bum Jared Jeffries. But now with the losing and Playoffs no longer a realistic possibility, they might be more willing to trade away their favorite son for an expiring contract. 30, 35 wins…no difference. Utah will get a 8-12 draft pick in a weak draft. Not the end of the world. The main priority the rest of the season is to clear as much cap as possible AND develope our rookies and get them ready for next year.

Losing might actually be a good thing…let me explain. If we were winning, I have a scary feeling Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni might not be willing to trade their favorite bum Jared Jeffries. But now with the losing and Playoffs no longer a realistic possibility, they might be more willing to trade away their favorite son for an expiring contract. 30, 35 wins…no difference. Utah will get a 8-12 draft pick in a weak draft. Not the end of the world. The main priority the rest of the season is to clear as much cap as possible AND develope our rookies and get them ready for next year.

In my view it is not Walsh or D’Antoni’s reluctance, it is JJ’s untradeable contract that prevents getting a expiring contract. Some teams, like us, want salary cap. The rest want to avoid more luxury tax. The team has a lot of holes. Maybe the best course is to look at young moderately priced players who might fill the holes. Just a thought.

“When you coach a high school or college team it is very, very easy to deal with players who have poor attitudes. You can bench them or you can just get rid of them if they become cancerous to the team. Unfortunately, when you have players who are signed to multi-million dollar contracts, just getting rid of them is difficult.”

You mentioned benching players in high school then you didn’t mention it as a option for NBA players. _’antoni could do that but there is no accountability on this team. _avi_ shouldn’t be playing so many minutes as a defensive liability and Jeffries shouldn’t be playing so many minutes as an offensive liability.

Except All indications are that it is not a weak draft

I don’t care that Utah has our pick.. Spilt milk

Didn’t the coach bench a multiple million dollar player??

To me, reality has set in…these Knicks cannot make the playoffs this year. If anything at all that I hope they accomplish this season is to just trade Jared Jeffries contract (I’d say Eddy Curry too but this is not going to happen). Thats all I can hope for….move that contract so at least we have more flexibility in the summer.

That may be the case, but whatever he is doing is totally ineffective relative to when Lee does it.

Two, actually. Robinson and now Hughes.

The problem, as I mentioned above, is that three roster slots are “phamtom” slots. Curry, Darko, and Mobley. They aren’t even present. It makes for a short active roster. Bench a couple of guys and who do you have to sub in? You can’t bench them onto the inactive list and have other guys suit up.

Hmmm… no thanks.

It would have been nice if the Knicks had made the playoffs because I do think NBA players are dumb and like the idea of going to a “playoff team”, even if that team will look totally different next year. In the same vein, it’s really important that the Knicks don’t sink into a pit of despair. It’s really on D’Antoni now to get them to win at at least a .400 clip for the rest of the year. It will be hard to get FAs otherwise. I do think Walsh will be able to trade JJ (for God’s sake, he traded Jerome James with the same contract), and that will mean a lot for next year. But if the team goes 8-30 the rest of the way, we’re in big trouble.

I agree, but I think that the Knicks may have to accept only a partial clearing of JJ if it means a real chance of moving him.

If no one is going to offer expirings to completely cover him, they may have to do a two for one. By this, I mean, if JJ is making 6million, they may have to accept a 3.5 mill expiring and a 2.5 million contract extending through 2010-11. Rather than have his salary next year, they would, in effect have, part of his salary on the books. It may be the best that they can do without selling off young players to entice another team.

This way, the other team would only be “adding” the salary of the expiring player for another year along with maintaining the salary of the active contract they traded rather than JJ’s whole salary.

They would probably have to buy out Darko and fit the new salary into what remains of his cap room.

Just a though on how to make it possibly work w/o having a fire sale.

PLAIN IDIOTIC

Yeah dude, I surely hear ya! I have never seen this coach call a timeout or ream players like JJ for shooting 3s! JJ shot six 3s before the 4th qtr begin last night. Yikes!

Gallo cant get help to find time to shoot the 3 and he is our best shooter. You would think this coach would have JJ setting picks for Gallo instead of launching 3s!

Silly me, what do I know about b-ball!

Yeah but he’s a rookie on the defensive end! So under this coach, his offense can play but his defense has to sit on the bench! A daunting predicament!

Yeah I hear ya but we are the patients…and this team is killing us!

Thanks Has! You seem to get it! This coach can put anyone on the bench who continues to miss assignments or not play to that in which he wants.

It’s not about selectively choosing one or two players to single out when many on the team don’t play defense or make the same bad mistakes time and time again.

Any and Every one should be put on notice that unless they play with effort and attention to detail, they will sit on the bench and watch!

That’s how you get to millionaires earning potential! There are no superstars on this team and this coach can easily do it here.

Come on Biggie, you now better than that!

Hey guys just a thought but here is an idea, CP3 is down for at least 2 months and the hornets are as bad if not worse then we are and playing in a much harder division…..Lee,Gallo,Chandler,TD & JJ for CP3 & West, I know I will hear “why would they do that as I have said before the NBA is a biz and its about making money. There running in the red and losing money in a much smaller market so good young CHEAP talent is the key for them rebuilding along with there draft pick while we in return get the best PG in the game and West who at the end of the season we can if we want use in a sign & trade for one of those free agent who teams may be losing for nothing! Or keep him and wait it out until 2011 and still be in better shape!

I think it’s a win/win but look forward to the feed back from you guys on tweaks to my idea or opposing views. PLEASE SOMEBODY WAKE DONNIE UP AND GIVE HIM HIS MEDS!! DO SOMETHING DONNIE!! lol

u want to know the outcome

donnie will end up signing the same talent level players he traded to clear the cap

just wait watch an see.