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Afrter Chris Kaman was selected by David Stern as an All-Star replacement (Brandon Roy is out with an injury), Frank Isola had an interesting blog post about the lack of white American All-Stars over the past couple years:
“The last white America player to appear in the All-Star Game was Brad Miller, who made the team in both 2003 and 2004. Before Miller, Wally Szczerbiak and John Stockton were the two other white Americans to become All-Stars.
“While the number of elite American white players has declined in the NBA, there has been an influx of European-born players making their mark in the league. Since 2004, Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Russia), Dirk Nowitzki (Germany), Pau Gasol (Spain), Mehmet Okur (Turkey) have been named All-Stars. Steve Nash (Canada) and Manu Ginobili (Argentina) have also made the All-Star during that time.
“But why so few white Americans? When the percentage of African-Americans in the Major League’s declined, baseball started a program to bring the sport back into the inner city. I’m pretty sure the NBA isn’t going into rich suburbs and encouraging kids to put down their lacrosse sticks and start shooting hoops again.”
Kaman played for the German national team during the last Summer Olympics, but he is still an American, and as the photo above will show, he is no doubt a pasty-ass caucasian.
If you had told me that Brad Miller was the last white American to be dubbed an All-Star, I would have pompously argued that you were dead wrong. But if challenged to come up with the right answer to the “who was the last white American to make the team” question, I would have come up blank.
It’s an interesting point and one that hadn’t crossed my mind before. I’m not sure what it says about society or the NBA’s reach into various socio-economic groupings, but it is an interesting tidbit nonetheless.
Now — if a spot opens up, can David Lee make it as #2…?
It’s the same thing in baseball were it’s predominately white and hispanic, and there are only a few african-americans.
Bad article! It doesn’t matter to the NBA if the player is white or not and it shouldn’t matter to anyone. All I see is the skills of the players and the teams they represent.and thats all that matters .
I don’t see the problem discussing it, I think it’s an interesting topic.
I hear ya but people like to dismiss the obvious. It should be discussed in sincerity.
Case in pt, here in NY, the fans have supported NY teams for years without any decent white b-ball players. We have had black players who couldn’t hit the ocean if put at the end of the beach!
Meanwhile for years, teams like the Celtics seem to get all the white players who could shoot and at least do the basic things like hit their free throws.
That is why if David lee would play some defense, he would never leave this team. Hopefully, we are smart enough to put Gallo in a better position so that he can excel here too.
If the situation was the other way around and there were no black b-ball players in NY, there would be marches on MSG everyday.
However, we ALL should be marching on MSG due to the crap they have been putting out for years.
I don’t care what color a player is but I do take notice when it’s one-sides all the time…especially when we s-u-c-k! Surely we can go EOP to provide to mediocrity!
Hey, playing around with the 3rd rail of sports isn’t that bad afer…EEEEEEEEEHHHH!
Why we can’t accept differences between races is beyond my comprehension.
Let’s see how many starting Rbs in the NFL are white… the same for the #1 receiver. I can go the other way too.
That is not to say that one race is better than the other, which I don’t think it is, just saying there are differences.
how can ,say, a middle class white guy who loves basketball play against/measure up against an inner city youth who plays 24/7 in hopes of putting food on the table?
it’s more a class issue than anything else, also inner city public schools are vastly under funded, usually with no after school programs and what not, so what else is there to do?
What is “the other way”?
Why does it matter? You guys act like it’s a conspiracy. There is no color barrier against white players. Trust that the David Stern would want nothing more than the most diverse all-star team that can attract a broader audience. The players who happened to be white who were all-star worthy usually make the team. What about the Chinese? Yao made it because he was the only worthy Asian representative. Because there are not as much white players as others then its a problem ? Who is the white guy that gets snubbed every year? See thats why his topic is nonsense because it shouldn’t even matter.
Again, I don’t see the problem discussing it. The fact that “there are not as much white players as others” – which is not exactly Isola’s point since he’s talking about white AMERICAN players – is not a problem but it’s a fact. Why shouldn’t we try to explain it?
I think “mixed” teams like the Raptors and the Magic are fresher than the Celtics for example. And I think “mixed” soccer teams like Manchester United are fresher than “all-white” teams like Bayern Munchen even though it doesn’t really matter (I like BM).
I’m half-chinese and I was really happy to see Yao Ming reach superstardom in the NBA. I would love to see asian-american NBA players! And I assume that the white fanbase (Isola for example) would like to see more white american guys playing in the NBA because they are white too. Is it a problem? Not in my opinion! Not a big deal.
Maybe Jeremy Lin makes it on a roster. Kid can ball.
If a player wants to make the all-star team then that player should step his game up and make his team win and that includes David Lee too. I know some players made it on a bad team but dont give a chance for excuses to not make it and just play very well and win . Dont pull the race card .
not pulling any sort of race card…
i just thought it was interesting that one group has been so underrepresented at the AS game for the past 8 years…this isn’t to say white Americans deserve a spot and are being mistreated…in fact, I think it’s more in line with what Oscar F is saying — that there just dont seem to be that many above average guys who fit that decision…which to me, in a league that used to be pretty much ALL white american guys, is pretty interesting…
thats all…
How much smaller is the percentage of white american all-stars than the percentage of white american players in the nba? I don’t feel like doing the research/numbers but it doesn’t seem like the ratio would be all that incongruent. There just aren’t a lot of white americans getting nba contracts. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day I want the best players in the game on the A-S court regardless of race.
What I find more interesting than race is the second half of Isola’s post:
“Maybe these things just go in cycles, kind of like the great New York City basketball player. Once the hotbed of hoops, NYC isn’t what it once was. There’s not a single All-Star from the city. Carmelo Anthony was born in Red Hook, Brooklyn but moved to Baltimore when he was eight. In fact, the host city, Dallas, can claim two All-Stars this year; Chris Bosh and Deron Williams.
Lamar Odom, who is pretty darn good, is probably the best New York City has in the NBA today.
And yet, where would you rank Odom among NBA players. Is he in the top 30? Top 40? Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and Oakland are producing better NBA players.
Come to think of it, Chris Mullin is very unique; a white All-Star from New York City. We may not see another like him, white or black, for quite some time.”
I can understand fewer white boys but why fewer NYC stars?
I’m shocked that people find this surprising, especially the topic creator.
I mean its quite obvious why white players don’t make the All-Star team, their lack of athleticism and quickness. Its been admitted by white GMs and coaches such as Jerry West and Mike Dunleavy that they have a certain bias against white players because of this idea.
A really good take on the situation was reported on Outside The Lines on ESPN in December about the lack of white guys in the NBA. The report featured Kyle McAlarney’s dream of playing in the NBA.
The main reason argued that white players don’t make it in the NBA is that their lack of athleticism makes it difficult for them to adjust to the NBA level.
I suggest you guys google it and look for the video.
Like Joe Alexander
LOL
I don’t get it.
Joe Alexander is a paradoxical/counterintuitive example if “the main reason argued that white players don’t make it in the NBA is that their lack of athleticism makes it difficult for them to adjust to the NBA level”
Your argument is invalid. Alexander has been hurt for the majority of his young career and hasn’t proven anything yet.
Umm I don’t know about u but chris Andersen is one of the most athletic big men in the league right now, he’s not called “Birdman” for nothing. And he’s American.
Yeah but it’s not just basketball its other spots like baseball that started off dominated by whites and then guys like Jackie Robinson made thier mark. I think that with what the NBA is doing by running camps in different countries will create a more diverse cultured NBA and I also believe there will be more white players and stars in the NBA in the near future but they just have to earn it . I play ball in NY in brooklyn and the hat and im starting too see some very talented players in almost every race and ethnicity. They are in no way at a handicap going against black players. Thay are just as good so thats why i don’t think it should matter with this topic.
Found the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYraid2vqI8
This is the link to the Outside The Lines Report on White Players in the NBA featuring Jerry West
Thx dude. That was a good link! I discussed this on the Post blog last year in depth and some did their usual b.s. about “It’s doesn’t matter to me” yada yada! It’s an issue with me just like having blacks and minorities being more int he front office or owners.
It’s be great when we get to a pt where we can blast ALL for poor performance equally.
Btw, did I ever say our coach sucks! Yeah I know, picking on the white guy! lol
NBA players dont make it to the all-star game due to athleticism, that is a stupid statement. Its all about skills. Thats why Dirk is a far better player than Amare, and many other athletic players. Bird is considered one of the greatest but is not athletic. what ever a player lacks in athleticism he has to make it up in skills and that will be enough to make it in the NBA. So many of you on here think that Gallo will be an all-star one day but he is not a top athletic player even most of you feel he has more upside than Chandler.
Oscar, you completely missed the point. Or maybe I wasn’t clear.
Dirk Nowitzke is German, not White American.
Just go watch the video I provided the link to and all will be explained.
Remember we’re talking about White American, not European or any other foreign country.
The inner city style of play leads to a better, more creative player than the more disciplined coach-centric style learned in middle American places like suburban Indiana, while on the flip side, those places have more sports to choose from, and in many places actually have less places to play ball then the cities do.
I was in Charleston, SC a few years back, and the city tore down one of the two rims in one of the two parks (‘full court brought a bad element’) , while they were putting in 4 brand new lighted tennis courts — IN THE SAME PARK (which already had unused tennis courts) .
I have to say the first point about a more creative player compare to a more disciplined certainly isn’t a reason for them to be more successful
Isola wrote a similar article which bothered me. It is not the subject matter that is objectionable. It is the forum. The question is really too sensitive to too many people as it deals with complex issues. Why are jews, italians, chinese and any number of other groups not equally represented in basketball? It is about opportunity; it is about talent, it is about absence of exclusion; it is about having different alternatives. It is about many, many reasons. The good news is I believe we presently have the most talented and deserving players in the game. Enough said.
Points to consider from video:
1) White players from international countries are scouted and begin playing strict fundamental basket at a very young age
2) White American NBA Players are restricted by NCAA rules on playing time and time with coaches
3) Work. European youngsters who play basketball simply work harder because they have less opportunities than American kids.
4) Perception. White players are viewed as defensively challenged. You can’t tell me that when a black person sees a white guy on the opposing team, they know they can guard them. Its fact. (I need to find Derek Fisher’s quote regarding this, it explains it more elaborately)
White players off the top of my head:
Brian Scalabrine
David Lee
Troy Murphy
Chris Kaman
Kirk Hinrich
JJ Reddick
Louis Amundson
Luke Walton
Matt Carrol
Nick Collison
Care to name anymore?
Yep, This has always been true! I can speak from experience how I felt more confident when I faced a white dude in front of me. In college, I ran into a white due who lit my a-s-s up but it took him to do that many times before I admitted that he could out ball me.
It’s the same way in reverse at times in the classroom. Certain whites feel superior against blacks in that area. It’s not warranted many of times just like b-ball but it is what is.
that is why if you read Birds quotes when he came into this league, they are priceless. There were many black players who thought Bird was overrated and yet they couldn’t stop him one bit on the court. To me, that is what makes Bird one of the best to play this game because he did it against confident players who thought they could out ball him.
Many times, the “mental” part of the game is just as valuable than having the physical ability. Bird for instance, surely took a lot of my money and ruin many of my TV sets!
BTW, I couldn’t beat the white dud eon the b-ball court, but I kicked his a-s-s in the classroom. lol
Luke Ridnour, Travis Deiner, Joe Alexander, Kevin Love, Kosta Koufos, Brad Miller, Kyle Korver, Jason Kaponos, Jason Williams
Should be a Beer Money question.
$20 for every white american player in the NBA you can name.
Haha truth. $50 for every black hockey player.
lol. Blacks weren’t allowed to play with sticks while allowing to fight in games. If we did, the homicide rate would be waaaaaay thru the roof!
Iginla is 50% black I believe.
Carter.
But he doesn’t play in the NHL anymore.
Others not off the top of my head,
Jeff Foster, Mike Dnleavy, Tyler Hansbrough, Josh McRoberts, Jason Smith, Aaron Gray, Mike Miller, Kevin Humphries, Chris Quinn, Ryan Anderson, Chris Anderson, Chase Budinger, Steve Novak, Spencer Hawes, Jon Brockton, Adam Morrison, Brian Cardinal, B.J. Mullins, Steve Blake, Joel Przybilla and Matt Bonner.
Is Jordan Farmar white?
I think so.
lol…that says it all
one day it will be too difficult to label people as a certain race…we’re a few generations away from that happening, but it’s coming.
Kids whose parents that are from different races will one day marry kids whose parents were from other different races and they’ll have kids and the cycle will continue…what race are those future generations going to be?
one day most people will be a mixture of so many races that they won’t know what to put on their census form and they will just have to get rid of the entire need for race classification.
we’re almost there…how many of these “non-white players” have a caucasian somewhere in their family tree already?
I agree there’s a perception problem – the most obvious example is Gallinari’s defense. “He’s too slow defensively”, “He can’t guard quicker guys on the perimeter”, “He’s a terrible defender” bla bla bla. Pure BS. He plays solid defense.
Wilson Chandler – on the other hand – has always been given the benefit of the doubt because he’s black and athletic. I think people subconsciously assume that he’s a great defender which is clearly not the case even though he’s pretty good defensively.
It’s definitely perception. If David Lee’s name was Rashaad Jenkins then HaS would be arguing that he is an all-star carrying the Knicks every night. But since David can only grow a jew-fro his 20 points and 10 rebounds are “empty” and does nothing to help the team win despite being the best player currently on the Knicks roster.
It also goes back to X-man’s comment about black basketball players being more confident when guarding whites and refusing to give credit when its due. It’s sheer stupidity to underestimate any player due to skin color. No wonder most black players I played against cried, wanted to fight or never gave any credit to me when i outplayed them. Some actually believe in this race crap just like those players who felt cheated because their “blackness” didn’t beat me.
I agree with the second paragraph, interesting story. The first one is pure speculation obviously though.
kevin love…might be the next white American All-Star staple…?
Speaking as a Long Island guy, and as a former HS teacher, Long Island has so many sports available that 24/7 dedication, which is needed these days, is split among a number of sports. Most athletes have scholarship dreams given the high cost of college these days. They are gravitating towards the sport that give them more of a chance to get a scholarship.
Travel and club teams for other sports are cutting into AAU Basketball. Many of my students played baseball year around, frequently traveling to Florida for tourneys. Long Island is soccer-land many potential backcourt players are playing soccer year around. Football players are required to be in the weightroom all winter before Lacrosse starts, etc.
For the tall agile white guys, the big new sport is Men’s Volleyball, which for what ever resons is a predominately white sport. As soon as the Fall season is over, club season starts and runs through Memorial Day. National clubs travel all over the country, including Hawaii, for week-long tourneys. A lot more seductive than sweating in a HS gym from Thanksgiving to Valentine’s Day. Volleyball has become a bigger sport than many realize.
Ironically, on Long Island, the major recipients of athletic scholarships are the female athletes by about three to one. Want a scholarship for your daughter, have her play soccer, field hockey, volleyball or golf.
The major scholarship generator on Long Island for the past twenty years by a blow-out is music. Want your son to get a scholarship, have him play the tuba. He’l have his choice of Big Ten schols by the end of ninth grade.
Sorry about the typos and punctuation. Multi-tasking right now.
I know about the above, because I was in a very large HS, taught 12th grade, and helped with the admission essays and practice interviews for hundreds of seniors.
My daughter was a HS athlete who went out with athletes.
There’s something that I really can’t understand though.
Why are mixed players considered black and not white? Why isn’t there another category for mixed players like Blake Griffin, Jerryd Bayless or Stephen Curry? Why is Barack Obama considered black and not 50% white? Stephen Curry isn’t more black than he’s white, therefore there’s no reason to “exclude” him from the white category as long as the “mixed” category doesn’t exist.
I’m not saying that Stephen Curry’s white, but there’s no reason to put him in the black category because he’s not 100% white. He should either 1. Belong to both categories 2. Belong to another catogory (mixed).
I’ve had more than a few students in that situation, and generally they tended to identify with the group that accepted them most. The tragedy is when neither group accepts them. Really hard when a kid has triple ethnicity.
Mucha, we’ve talked before about why Gallo has always been compared to other white players, and never a player of color; ironically, not even a player like Channing Frye. Have posters here ever compared S. Curry to a white player?
Mark Price I believe.
I think there’s legitimate reason why Gallinari has always been compared to white players – the best “black” comparison I can think of is Rashard Lewis but they are not similar obviously.
Good point Mucha. I personally beleive that many people have the narrow mind set that if he is athletic then he must have gotten it from his black side.
I used to get insulted when I was younger and I would dunk a basketball or block a shot and black players would say “oh you must have some black in you”…why, just becasue I can jump?
The truth is the most athletic american white players play other sports (baseball, football, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, etc). Many of these sports take money not available in certain socio-economic sections of the country. These euro-players coming to the NBA are playing so well because although technically white grow up in conditions worse than some of our countries inner city neighborhoods. For them it’s the way out just as it is here. Because Basketball is such a cheap sport to play it will always be the sport that represents those that come from harsh conditions, the same way boxing did back in the day.
LOL, They’re considered black by other blacks until they f@#k up, then they’re white. The police consider them black all the time.
lol
It’s ridiculous.
Race is such a sensitive topic – people don’t even realize that Stephen Curry and Blake Griffin belong to the white community as much as the black community. They might as well mention Jason Kidd, Deron Williams and Derrick Rose, (assuming that he’s 50% white – I don’t know) as white american All-Stars.
Yeah I hear ya and it quite funny how some are so in denial and try to act like these things don’t matter. If they didn’t, then it should be easy to speak about it.
It seems that people do care to see those that look and behave in certain ways like them can and do succeed. I guess it helps to think that if we just get off that coach, we could be a superstar too! lol
I know I’m still better than Duhon! If I can only get a GM to sign me and a coach to give me PT. I guess I can’t because I’m black huh? lol
Yah, but you don’t know Obama personally. Duhon still gets the nod because he’s connected.
lol, That might be an avenue to trade him to. Make him part of the Obama b-ball team with Love, Obama, Duhon and 2 other white dudes to keep it with the theme of this blog. lol
After about 3 pick up games, Obama would use executive order to put Duhon on the bench!
that was suppose to read “couch” instead of “coach”! lol I know I’m not a big fan of this coach but that’s really pushing it.
I dunno, a lot of people got their break on the couch, probably a few on the coach as well.
Seriously though, even when I’m being critical,I try to remember that to play pro in the big show is an accomplishment that barely one half of one percent of all the eligible college and Euro players achieve each year.
Even a guy like Jeff Ruland (who played for Sachem HS), a journeyman player, was so far above the best high schooler or returning college player at clinics even when he was then coaching at Iona, that it is obvious what it takes to be a pro is another level that few can comprehend.
Great pts! I hope ALL know that our criticism is on relative scale not absolute one.
I still remember that very funny comment Larry Bird made about did he think he would be as good as he was in the NBA. He stated that he thought he would be better with Jeff Ruland guarding him! Priceless!
this may be the stupidest thread ever on TKB..
what about Jason Kidd?
He’s 50% white I think. Wait, he’s not white then lol.
yeah.. his mom is irish and his dad is AA…
in other words.. who gives a sh!t.
Come on Notorious B.I.G, you’re in denial! You didn’t have any white dudes in your crew!
Biggie was White.
Frank White.
lol King of NY! lol
It always impressed me that Biggie had seen that tiny Abel Ferrara movie.
I hear ya and it impressed me that Biggie knows so much about the salary cap too…!
Yeah, but I wonder if I found a chink in this Biggie’s armor! I read recently (in two different places) that teams that are under the cap can use the mid-level exception to sign a player if signing that player to the MLE amount would take them over the cap (ie, they are under the cap but by less than the full MLE). If so, that would give the Knicks a little more salary flexibility this summer.
Here’s one of the spots I saw it: http://bizofbasketball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=672&Itemid=84
lol, Yep, go after Biggie with that one. I’ll stand around the corner and call 911 if you need any help!
I’ll be screaming “please poppa don’t hurt me no more!”
LOL, Don’t rat me too ok?
You mean you don’t think we’re going to get to the bottom of major socio-economic/racial issues here on TKB?
Can we get a post on the electoral college next?
Great article! The league hasn’t given any attention to the decline of white american basketball players like the attention that baseball gets for the decline of african americans, or even the small number of african american quarterbacks, even the small numbers of african americans in hockey (canadian sport anyway so not really heard about). Another in the NFL was that there were not enough african american coaches.
I have made a new rule, if the team doesn’t have at least two white people on the team, I with not bother watching any of there games unless they are playing the Knicks.
One of the best match ups ever was Bird vs Magic.
There is a slight difference here. The exclusion of Blacks was considered the result of state sanctioned and perpetual discrimination and exclusion from opportunities based upon race. Both the countries laws and customs were designed to deny blacks the opportunities afforded whites.
Blacks exclusion from other sports, which require more financial and facility resources from the outset, is also in large part a class and race issue where kids do not have the same opportunity to become baseball, hockey and football quarterbacks. Consequently, basketball is one of the least expensive and accessible sports for many black Americans especially those in urban areas, so more gravitate towards that sport today.
Are white Americans excluded by law and racial custom or are the best white American athletes making other choices? Why are they making those choices? Why is it that white American athletes less prevalent than white European athletes? Does that have anything to do with race or more to do with class and the variety of opportunities?
So there are not enough white Americans in the NBA for your liking. Find the ones who have been discriminated against on the basis of their race and file a class action lawsuit against the league. What do you think you come up with?
The most un-athletic player in the NBA isn’t white. He’s black.
Ladies and Gentlemen – Chris Duhon
Seems appropriate for this thread…One of my favorite skits of all time…Chapelle’s Show Racial Draft
enjoy
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=162807