Mike D’Antoni did some explaining last night in regards to whether or not to foul at the end of games when up by three points.
“…D’Antoni said he feels it’s not a given to foul with that much time left because the Knicks are a poor rebounding team. Against the Wizards, for instance, he said the fear is if McGee missed the second free throw, the Wizards could’ve grabbed the offensive rebound. The undersized Knicks, during their eight-game losing streak, were a minus-79 in rebounding, and allowed the Grizzlies to grab 17 offensive boards in last night’s 120-109 loss.
D’Antoni said he also is afraid the player about to be fouled could go into a quick shooting motion and be awarded three free throws.
“Conventional wisdom is to foul by everybody who has never coached a game,” D’Antoni said, taking a shot at his critics.
“Under five seconds, you always foul,” D’Antoni said. “Above five seconds, it gets dicey. You watch players, all you have to do is motion right there [to shoot]; he’s taking three [foul] shots. That’s a bad mistake. I play the percentages. The worst that happens is you control your own destiny and we had a shot at the end…”
The issue is more when the team has a foul to give, but the point is the same. When you’re an awful rebounding team, as the team has been the last two seasons, you can’t allow a team the opportunity to create points from the foul line. In other words, if you give the foul late you’re risking a shooting foul. But then the Knicks would at the very least get the ball back, assuming that the player would can all three free throws.
I’ve talked to 4 high-level coaches over the past two months and they’ve said it’s not an automatic given to foul. Those situations are taught in game film. A player moving forward against a certain number on the shot clock dictates and the message comes from the bench.
You’d be surprised at the team who would also play it “straight up” feeling they have that much confidence in their rebounding and defensive abilities. They don’t foul feeling the play represents weakness.
For D’Antoni, and many coaches, the percentage of hitting a three point shot under 5 seconds is very low. Unfortunately for the Knicks and Knick fans, it’s been 100% the last few times.
The reason
For D’Antoni, and many coaches, the percentage of hitting a three point shot under 5 seconds is very low. Unfortunately for the Knicks and Knick fans, it’s been 100% the last few times
that’s true is because the knicks aren’t taught to play defense. If you don’t stop anyone all game, you don’t stop them at the end either.
It is becoming more and more obvious after each game that Mike D’Antoni is a loser. He lost in Denver and now is a loser in N.Y.
The ONLY reason he won in Phoenix is because he walked into a perfect situation. He traded Marbury and then signed Nash and the rest is history. But the minute Steve Kerr brought in Shaq and asked him to concentrate more on defense, he threw a temper tantrum and resigned.
D’Antoni does not know how to actually coach-to-win. He is more of a High School coach who just sends players in the game and hopes for the best.
Walsh was fooled big time. I feel the only reason he brought this coach in was because of his rep as a popular “players” coach.
And it looks like, listenening to Tommy, a lot of us are still fooled.
I listen to Tommy Dee and I am not fooled because I know Tommy Dee gets special privlidges from his buddy DAntoni. Tommy is not dumb he just pretends to believe DAntoni is not part of the problem. He knows that DAntoni is attempting to install his system that has never worked before into the Knicks. What i mean by never worked before is that it never brought any team a championship. It is a system that is entertaining but is not going to bring home a ring.
it is what it is
u gotta play ya part sometimes even if it’s the fake role
Tommy,
There have been loads of studies done on this and coach is right that at around 5 seconds it gets progressively dicier. He also brings up some of the relevant issues. However, one of the factors that must weighed is the team’s ability to get a stop. The Knicks haven’t gotten a stop since the 90s!
So if a guy like Popovich doesn’t foul (and he often doesn’t), it might actually make some sense because the Spurs have been a great defensive team and almost always come away with the victory because they stop the team.
The Knicks keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
At some point the coach has to realize that all these low probability events like getting fouled behind the arc or the other team getting a rebound after the free throw miss are less likely that the team nailing the shot and beating us.
Second, there were times he did not foul even though we had a foul to give. That’s even more preposterous because the opposing team wouldn’t have even gone to the line.
This is the kind of thing that’s almost impossible to prove because every team and circumstance is different, but the preponderance of evidence suggests that the Knicks are so terrible defensively they are better off fouling. Otherwise, we wouldn’t keep losing.
The team has to be taught how to use the foul when they have the foul to give. Even if you do it with 6-7 second on the clock…even 8 seconds…you still make the opponent reset and force them to inbound the ball a second time and give them less time to run a 2nd play. It’s a no brainer…you give the foul when you have the foul to give. This is the sort of thing that can be taught in practice…assuming they practice defense in practice that is…*sigh*
Doesn’t one need to be able to communicate in order to teach?
“Stay Patient My Friends”
^I like this DVJ ish now!
I think I’ll add one of his trademarked “LMAO”‘s too.
“LMAO playa”
what up playa
Many people say that David Lee is our best player and that we should keep Lee over Bosh for a few million less next year. David Lee gets praised for his rebounding and for the fact that he’s a double double machine, but when the game is on the line the strategy is changed to assume that we can’t get a rebound…even on a missed free throw.
David Lee pads his stats to get his 11.5 per game. I saw him basically pull an uncontested rebound away from gallo in the washington game. There wasn’t another wizard in sight and he acted like gallo was the opponent. He’s a good rebounder (for his size) but not great. D’antoni basically just said it…can’t count on him to get a board when the game is on the line…even after a missed free throw byt the other team?…come on
Lee has gotta go…buh bye
“David Lee pads his stats to get his 11.5 per game. I saw him basically pull an uncontested rebound away from gallo in the washington game.”
I’ve been noting for a while that when Gallo or anyone else pulls down a uncontested rebound, he gets a look of utter hatred from Lee. It is obvious that Lee believes that he is entitled to all uncontested rebounds.
More than a few times last night, Lee looked off a wide-open Gallo to take a jumper that was out of his range. It is obvious tha Lee is trying to extend his range in an effort to either justify a bigger contract or to prove that he can be a 3/4 in “The System.” Either way, he ignored a wide-open player to serve his own needs rather than the team’s needs.
You could say that he has lost faith in Gallo’s shot, but that doesn’t help Gallo get back on track, and doesn’t fit in with the “pass to the open shooter” concept. It does show that Lee is getting selfish shooting-wise as well as rebound-wise.
BTW, Gallo had what, four blocks on Friday night? Has he become the defacto shot-blocker on the team?
stop making things up. David Lee is an allstar. He would never do what you and I saw.LOL
Just a question: Is there any way to make this claim that David Lee’s rebounding stats are “padded” more precise? For instance, is there a stat which can us give us some indication of the ratio of strong side to weak side boards that a player gets? My sense is that almost all of D-Lee’s rebounds come from the weak side and are uncontested. Maybe two or three times a game does he really box out a player and grab a contested board..
Btw, I was watching the Boston telecast from the game the other night and Tommy Heinsohn (who I’m not a big fan of) was essentially arguing that Tony Allen (!) is as good a rebounder as D-Lee. Both guys, he said, get all their boards uncontested from the weak side; the only difference is that David Lee is playing the 5 spot, so he’s much closer to the basket.. To say that Tony Allen and David Lee are equally good rebounders seems a stretch to me, but maybe Heinsohn’s got a point. I do wonder how many rebounds D-Lee would get on a team with a more traditional center….
D’antoni basically said he can’t count on Lee to even get a rebound when the opponent misses a free throw. That says it all to me right there.
This is the only stat that counts the Knicks are .345 in the standings. Yes David pads his stats. But don’t say anything because Mike D’Antoni will get mad.
i made that same argument a few months ago to a friend, and im glad someone else see it. [not about tony allen, about d-lee kind of getting rebounds by default]
david lee is playing center. he is the closest man on the court to the basket. yesterday the Grizz shot 45-87. that means there were 42 defensive rebounds up for the taking. when u are the man with the best position on the court to grab the rebounds, u SHOULD pull down 11 bounds a game. and thats not even counting offensive rebound opportunities. if lee was playing the PF position with a real center, i think there would be a dropoff in his bounds per game.
i love david lee on offense. I think that aside from chris bosh, he is the most offensively talented C/PF in the league, but the rebounds may be a bit of an ‘aboration.’
“i love david lee on offense. I think that aside from chris bosh, he is the most offensively talented C/PF in the league, but the rebounds may be a bit of an ‘aboration.’”
How about his 2nd season in the league when he wasn’t playing center? He still averaged a double double. Were those by default as well?
I’m just saying playa.
When a guy gets over 10 boards a game, count how many are offensive or contested ones. The easy ones, sure he goes after those, how about fighting on D to NOT give up an offensive board, which is sort of his specialty. I’ll take Gallo or Will outta the way in a missed 3 or free throw, but I just won’t create contact with another player for a miserable board.
Those are padded numbers.
David Lee is our best player. You saw what Zach Randolph did to him last night. Why do you think David Lee wasn’t guarding him, yet we traded him so we could create cap space for David Lee?
I don’t think David Lee is our best player…like it really matters who is on this horrible team anyway….but many people believe that he is
I find him to be an average player and personally dont believe that he should have made the all star team…just my opinion
I agree David Lee is no allstar, he was just a replacement for Allen Iverson, and he shloudn’t have been that. Marc Gasol is much better than him
Buckets was ‘guarding’ Zach actually. But didn’t stop him or slow him down once, so it always looked like it was two on one.
Maybe Buckets shouldn’t bother coming to the defensive end at all.
Yeah, he does that to pad rebounding stats. Rodman did it too, so did Oakley.
Is that supposed to make us feel better about it?
“Yeah, he does that to pad rebounding stats. Rodman did it too, so did Oakley.”
Wow did you just do that?
Did you just mention one of the all time greatest Knicks of all time in the same breath as _avi_?
Did you just put Lee in the same league as two defensive powerhouses? LMFAO. That’s gotta be the stupidest thing I’ve read today, easily.
DLee does pad his stats, but it was pointed out that most high-quantity rebounders do… If it was as easy as grabbing uncontested boards to get all the double doubles he gets, then a lot more players would be doing it. Games where he pulls down 20 boards are impressive.
With that, his ability on D is no good. No good at all. He may be our best player right now… but I would not pick him to start a team with.
You must mean the game, not games he pulled down 20 boards…Lee only did that one time this year. Howard did it 7 times, Camby 6 and Noah 4 times this year.
Lee’s own coach claims that he cannot count on him to get a board when the game is on the line…not even on a missed free throw…wtf does that say about him.
and yes, his defense is disgusting
I’d take him (and pay him) as a bench player on my team, nothing else
Lee is better than a bench player, but not a #1 option on a good team either- 2 maybe or hopefully more like 3. He shoots a high percentage, he gets boards, passes, finishes well, and under a decent coach, would have to play some D too.
I saw that same play and that was the first thing I thought of. It was a pure stat pad play. You could also see that he’s not as good a rebounder as the stats suggest in the All Star game. There were a couple of plays were super athletic teammates rose above Lee and snared the rebound away from him where if he was on the Knicks he would have gotten it because we have no rebounders.
You have to foul the guy in that situation. Year after year, the Knicks have been burned on last second three-poiners. It’s not the ideal way to play, but if no one’s going to contest the jumper that’s gonna be taken after they choose not to foul, the Knicks will continue to get burned. D’Antoni’s a hypocrite and a liar if he cites “I play the percentages” as his reason for not fouling. This is the same guy who let Duhon play 37 minutes a game, how exactly is that “playing the percentages” ? He’s just stubborn as hell.
also….how is chucking up 26 three pointers per game when the knicks rank 25th out of 30 teams in 3 point fg% playing the percentages?
Does any reporter have the cojones to call D’antoni out when he makes stupid comments like that….to his face…this is NY after all, we have a reputation to protect
Hell no, they won’t. We are suppose to sit here like little lambs, you see what happens to anyone who challenges Mike D’Antoni the sent packing. We must all agree with him he does nothing wrong. Try and understand there is no freedom of expression.If you don’t like the fact that this coaching style sucks just be quiet.
The guy IS going to be fired eventually and it won’t be pretty.
“Stay Patient My Friends”
In D’antoni’s defense…the players he has on this team suck pretty bad…I’m willing to give him the clean slate (the one he never gave marbury) next year when we have a different line up. But next year there will be no more excuses. The pressure is on right out of the gate next year…he better be able to handle it
“In D’antoni’s defense…”
His name and that word seen next to each other makes me chuckle.
“LMAO”
“Stay Patient My Friends”
^ Ok I’ll stop.
LOL
I didn’t even realize I did that…good catch
thanks playa.
My clean slate will last about 15-20 games. If I don’t see organized ball, I’m done with the guy.
And this Lee character should only stay if he’s willing to play for 1 mil
thank you for the words of support. Now lets get it over with Monday will be just fine.LOL
when?…its one thing when you are expected to stink and then you stink.Its another when they hire a GENIUS GM,who hires a GENIUS coach,and then you still STINK!…THROWING AWAY 2 SEASONS OF PRO BASKETBALL,IS A CRIME AGAINST THAT TEAMS FANS! i want my money back!
Any reporter who would question D’assholi would be banned by Dolan.
This whole phony organization makes me sick.
I know coach D’Antoni is right all the time he just plays losing percentages. The knicks are .345 in the standings and based on his comments that fine. He needs to quit and go somewhere, after July 1,2010 the whole front office needs to go. we traded away every player that is excelling with their new teams, and now we admire them and want them back. Or we need to have them back, when Zach and Jamal were traded we were 6-3. We were headed to the playoffs at that pace, so we had to blow up the team to improve. I see the great improvement and am looking forward to seeing some more, When they FIRE THIS JOKE OF A CAOCH.
To be fair, the GM did the trading, not the coach. At the time, Coach was upset because he wanted to win, but Walsh was looking to 2010.
If you were around here last year (maybe under a different name) you should recall that the same guys who want Zach and Jamal back now were screaming for them to be traded, to be waived, whatever it took to be rid of them.
Zach was considered to be the ultimate ball black-hole (prior to Harrington’s arrival) with the hideous contract that would ruin the 2010 plan. He was “padding his stats by forcing bad shots and rebounding his misses to pad his rebounding numbers. He was retarding the growth of the young players and teaching them bad habits.
Jamal was considered to be the outside no-D chucker with the horrible shot selection. According to the posters here, he had to go at any cost.
Now that they are gone, they look better than this year’s no-D ball hogs and stat padders. Again, you may not have been around as I don’t remember seeing you post until a couple of days ago, but those who were should stand by their posts last year, rather than conveniently forgetting what they wrote back then.
I just feel that after we don’t get Lebron it will be give it another year. We will be in 2012 with no draft picks and a coach who has more excuses than he’s had players. I’ll just watch Kevin Durant play for Scott Brooks until this conservative foolishness stops. No other caoch in knick history has been such a failure and allowed to stay. We gutted a playoff ready team that we needed a few pieces for to watch this . Summer is almost here and Iknow the same people preaching that Lebron is coming will be saying one more year again.
I was always all for getting rid of those players. But to get back something not to just get rid of them for cap space.
Walsh got nothing back, no players of any merit. No young players with upside and worst of all NOT ONE #1 pick.
So yes he should have dumped them, but he gave them away. That was just wrong.
Didn’t the coach want Gallo come draft time? Isn’t he the same that’s regressed his hole game by not involving him or showing him the ropes?
I just wonder.
I would wait until their best free throw shooter had the ball and foul him. That would give the knicks back the ball. If like the other night against the Wizards, we would end the game in a free throw contest. Or is this an admission by Mike D’Antoni that he put a flawed line up on the floor in the first place. I guess thats what happens when you want play Eddy .
This thing with the rebounds is just crazy. What outcome does antoni want instead of a rebound then?
A made shot?
Wow, I can smell the bullshit coming out his mouth, and it stinks.
You know it’s a sad state of affairs when you coach has no confidence in your team’s rebounding ability and he’s hoping that the other team is gonna miss the big shot rather than expecting his team play good defense and out hustle them for the rebound.
I actually would like to see D’Antoni here next year, but this is not the attitude of a championship coach, much less one that wins 40 games in one year.
thats why his jaws are always full of breath mints or something. Even he knows his shit stinks!!!
“Even he knows his shit stinks!!!”
Does yours smell like roses?
Yes I must say LOL
Mine smells like Utah’s ping pong balls.
now thats funny!
“I actually would like to see D’Antoni here next year…”
Don’t worry he’ll be here next year, even if they lose all of their remaining games.
But trust that his days are numbered.
“Stay Patient My Friends”
I can’t really see D’antoni staying on after 30 games of losing if the guy gets a more than competent roster.
Wow…
the D’Antoni love is flowing .. LMAO>>
Glad to see everyone coming around..
welcome to the dark side.
I’ve always been here I never liked his 7 seconds or less offense with no I mean no defense. We need a coach : Mark Jackson , Avery Johson , Byron Scott anyone who will create the rivalries again.
I’ve always been one to call him out when he says something stupid. Unfortunately, I have had plenty of opportunity to do that going back with the idiotic statements about nate earlier in the year. But moving on….
I’m not in the Fire D’antoni club yet. Do you believe he should be fired already? If the dark side means I want him fired…well I’m not quite there yet. I can’t say I actually hate the guy either…that’s a big dark side thing too right?…hate lol
But as I said before, the pressure begins game 1 of the 2010/11 season. The bar should be set as a top 4 team in the East on day 1.
I personally would like to enjoy the snowfall, why not just fire him now, he won’t get the player that will make him happy anyway. C’mon just join us or wait until next season when he pulls this percentage shit and loses, like we just started watching ball yesterday. The knicks have a .345 win percentage now or are we going lower.
i wouldnt say fire him rightnow.. that makes no sense given July 2010..
But i WILL Say I am not impressed with all the things I’ve been writing about for months..
And it doesnt have anything to do with getting “his players”.
Lets face it.. If Donnie strikes out in July there is a high probability that D’Antoni starts looking around for work so he can quit.
“Lets face it.. If Donnie strikes out in July there is a high probability that D’Antoni starts looking around for work so he can quit.”
Yea he seems like that type actually, but I’m actually looking forward to the tide turning, the fans revoking his “2 year pass”, him being fully exposed as a fraud of a coach and being unable to find work on an NBA team anywhere. Go back to Italy _’antoni.
Can we then sign TOM THIBODEAU?
+1
i want a normal coach who starts a normal traditional line-up.one that has a center and a point guard.is that too much to ask…..and i want zach back
I really like Avery Johnson’s coaching style.
I really can’t see this coach staying 30 games if he can’t get his act together if a good roster is put together.
I don’t see Lebron or any other top free agent coming here. I never played for a coach who play the percentages. Maybe thats why I am happy with the years I did play. Mike has a definite problem with his ego. He is not versatile enough to be so arrogant. I feel that just like Phoenix’s record when he coached them its over hyped like him. what player besides Lebron do you think he can get along with and coach no defense?
I dunno. Most coaches I’ve known and still know play the percentages at least in some respects.
you are playing the percentages when you double down in the post and let a poor shooter have the outside shot. You are playing the percentages when you intentionally foul a poor free throw shooter a la “Hack a Shaq,” and so forth. Even assist to turnover ratios when choosing your point guard is a form of playing the percentages.
Basketball is a game of percentages. Maybe the coaches that you had didn’t verbalize that aspect of their gameplan, but they certainly played the percentages if they were winning coaches.
If LeBron left his hometown, winning team, teammates/friends, fans to come to the bright lights and big city, losing franchise (for the last decade) New York Knicks, Nike would have one hell of a PR job on it’s hands to save his image.
Anything less than a ring and there would be no silencing the critics from bashing him as an unloyal athlete only after the money and fame.
There is no “feel good story” to be spun from a local kid singlehandedly destroying his homestate franchise when the city has never ever won anything in professional sport.
I see him at the very least signing a short contract (4 years, player’s option after 2?) and doing this all over again in the very near future.
dude, Nike probably prays each night before they go to bed that Lebron goes to NY. Their public relations dept can spin that story to the general public with ease. For instance, If Lebron has a chance to play with a Bosh in NY and T-Mac signing for the vet minimum (assuming he looks good the rest of the year) to bring NY it’s first NBA championship in 37 years. (now I’m dreaming lol)
I don’t think they’re worried about selling Lebron to NY to the public. Most people that buy Nike aren’t hardcore basketball fans (like us) and would probably rather see LBJ as a Knick anyway.
Our chances have gone slightly up since the Jeffries trade…I don’t think we are at 50% yet, but we’re a little closer.
Like I said, anything short of a ring and those critics will be on him for the rest of his career.
Big risk.
Secondly, people always claim the Knicks’ current supporting cast is better than the Cavs minus LeBron. If that’s true then why are the Knicks incapable of playing defense?
Everyone on the Cavs digs in on the defensive end and can get a stop more often then not when they need to, the Knicks? Not so much.
I don’t see how people can argue that our supporting cast is better than the cav either
Maybe they’ve all been reading “The Secret”.
The Cavs haul ass on D. That’s more than we can say for this squad. They got a center who can rebound. Shocker.
NIKE barely gives a shit.They have all the kids buying their stupid shoes for over 100.00 a pair.Can you imagine paying 100.00 bucks for sneakers that dont cost ten dollars to make?
Yeah I don’t think he should be fired yet either. That wouldn’t be fair. He was hired two years earlier than his services were really necessary just because Steve Kerr made him available.
If I was to magically take over the Knicks today as president/GM (damn if only it was that easy) I’d definitely let D’Antoni go. I don’t trust him personally, I don’t like his in-game decision making, I don’t like the way he treats players, I don’t like that the Knicks young players aren’t being “taught” fundamentals, I don’t like his defensive insistence on doing things his way (wow he’s ‘defensive’ about something? amazing!), I pretty much don’t like anything that he does as a coach.
That’s why I’d let him go. But since I’m NOT in charge, it’s only fair to let him get his chance with his stud free agent acquisition(s) in 2010-11.
And I don’t believe that his “system” meshes well with the only guy in the 2010 free agent class that I’d be happy acquiring. (and just in case you were wondering that player is LeBron James).
All I can objectively say about D’Antoni is this:
As a coach, D’Antonio was 232-96 (.707) on teams that had Steve Nash on it.
He has been 87-164 (.347) on teams that didn’t have Steve Nash on it.
That’s a HUGE disparity.
I’m not so sure he can get it done with (the way he wants to get it done) without having Steve Nash or a Steve Nash-clone.
+1 to all you’ve said.
maybe Utah will trade us D-Will when they draft John Wall………god I hope that doesn’t come back to haunt me.
Seriously, who are the potential PG targets this summer – given this system is built around solid play at that spot?
Felton, Farmar, Augustine?
Is TJ Ford playing in Indiana? Offer them Eddie if not – both com eoff the books in 2011 anyway?
good post and research.
You make some many sound arguments and then you put them in the garbage can by suggesting to ignore all those facts and just get him Nash. At best wouldn’t that say Nash is the person we need and not this coach?
All the things you judge a coach on, by your own words, this coach sucks at. BTW, Nash wasd a 2-time MVP and he had much talent surround him and that team never got to the Western Finals? So even with the best talent, his system and coaching ineptness became a bust when it counted in the playoffs.
I kind of understand the “we’re terrible on defence” argument, but I’m still convinced they should’ve fouled Durant.
I’m still backing Coach D, but there’s no doubt he’s made a number of bad decisions, especially at the end of games. I also think there are real questions about his man management without a genuine on-court leader (things may have been very different if we’d landed JKidd – his 19x17x16 triple-double the other night was insane and shows he’s still got it). BUT he was primarily brought in to help land the big name FAs this summer – as we all know, his rep with them is still high after Team USA. So no matter what happens, he’s going to get to build his own team this summer – and the excuses end there. That’s been the game plan for the past 2 years, and I’ve been behind it from the start, so I ain’t jumping off now. I genuinely hope this comes round for Coach D, as the 7SOL ball can be thrilling to watch when you’re winning – but it’s so easy to pick apart when you’re getting tanked seven games out of eight.
As for Lee, I’d like to see him stay, but not for the price he’s after. I like him, but he’s a third/fourth option on a championship team. I think he might get another reality check when he goes looking for a big deal in the summer, as I don’t reckon many teams will dish out a 12mil contract for him with the financial restraints they’re under.
My biggest worry is Gallo – he’s been a shadow of the player he threatened to become in Nov/Dec. I really hope it’s still the “adjustment phase”, as I had really high hopes for him.
Given our recent run, I’m now becoming genuinley concerned we’re going end up giving Utah a decent pick in the lottery. I’m living in dread at the thought of them landing in the top 2.
Right – apologies for the essay – rant over!
I’ve been trying to withhold judgement on D’Antoni, but watching Darko flourish in Minnesota is pretty damning to me. The one thing we needed most was an interior defensive presence, and we actually had one on the team, and didn’t give him a chance. I understand that we needed to showcase Jeffries, but no minutes for Darko? And why trade him now?
i’m beginning to worry that D’Antoni doesn’t underrstand that you can’t win without interior D. Which makes me ever more concerned that he is going to push to re-sign David Lee. This may not end well.
Whoa Darko’s playing in Minny? I had assumed they’d just buy him out.
Yeah it bothered me all year too that Darko wasn’t playing. Sure, he’s a stiff. But he rebounds and blocks shots. It’s all he has ever done well since he’s been in the league. Gee, the Knicks can’t use that?
“Whoa Darko’s playing in Minny?”
In 5 games so far, he’s averaging about 20 mins a game and putting up about 4.5 points, 5 boards and over 2 blocks a game. While playing on a young team struggling with a difficult offense (the triangle/triple post).
Pretty damning in my opinion, considering the Knicks were playing _avi_ “EZ Pass” Lee in the middle nearly 40 minutes a night with this guy sitting on the bench for 50 games.
His days are numbered.
Watching every person 6’8″ and over have career nights against the Knicks is slowly killing me. At least play Bender or something.
“At least play Bender or something.”
_’antoni likes at the wing.
_’antoni wake up he’s 7′.
Gallinari is 6’11″, he likes him at the wing as well.
Chandler is 6’8″ _’antoni likes as his prototypical 4 in his “system”.
_avi_ is 6’9″ _’antoni likes him as his prototypical 5 man.
Are you guys even paying attention?
I hate this coach.
i know!A team that is desperate for a center,and he benches DARKO.wtf is wrong with this coach? I want to keep S-ROD as my PG.I think with regular playing time (or as you WIGGERS say)BURN,he is gonna become very,very good.having said that,when are they gonna trade him….LMAO>>>PLAYA
Quite often I’ll read a post about D’Antoni not having players, but for the true bball fans out here, let’s be honest. Pat Riley had arguably one the best running teams ever in the 80′s, and when he came to NY, guess what, he ADAPTED his coaching style to what he had to work with. Honestly, how many ppl would have thought that Derek Harper, John Starks, Charles Smith, Greg Anthony, etc. would make it to an NBA finals? Sure he had Pat, but outside of him, who else made more than 1 All Star appearance? Another point is D’Antoni’s has a huge ego. Notice that whenever ANYONE questions a decision, the first thing he does is make a snarky quip, then goes into some hypothetical rebuttal. I live in NY, and trust me, if Girardi loses so much as TWO games in a row, he’s on the hot seat! My point is, I originally drank the kool-aid on this guy coming in, but now the sugar rush is gone, and we are heading for THE FIRST TIME of back-to-back 50 LOSS seasons! I truly don’t think that he knows how to develop and grow talent. Just my humble opinion.
Starks was bagging groceries and who knows what MAson was doing when Riley go them to NYC.
you make good points. welcome to the dark side.
Darko already has 12 locks in what? Four games?? Lee has 26 all year..
I bet Darko gets more n that the next 25 games
Are there enough games left for him to qualify for leading the league?
That would be classic.
LOL @ the Darkside.
Darkoside?
And Rambis absolutely loves him. I bet they re-sign him.
I’m not a Mike D’Antoni fan, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given that he’s (a priori) a “superstar coach”.
If it wasn’t for LeBron James, Chris Bosh or Dwyane Wade – I’d jump on the “Fire Mike D’Antoni” bandwagon and ask for Avery Johnson. But it’s all about 2010 and the superstars like D’Antoni.
“Superstar Coach” is a stretch don’t you think?
So “Superstar coaches” only get judged when they have “superstar talent”?
Ok.
I didn’t say superstar coach. I said “superstar coach”.
LOL
Oh the same I say “coach” when I refer to _’antoni. Got it.
My bad.
lol well I said “superstar coach” because he has a reputation as a superstar coach but I don’t know whether he’s in fact a superstar coach or not.
everyone is a superstar coach! you gotta be pretty lame if you cant win with JORDAN,KOBE,Kareem Magic etc
David Lee is a stat-padder, BIG and I have been saying this since… 2008.
Big L “I’m so ahead of my time my parents haven’t met yet” lol.
At this point, I think the knicks are becoming unbearable to even watch. I said right after the deadline that we needed a backup center b/c we don’t really have one center in lee; never the less a backup in harrington. S-Rod has been remotely entertaining at times and I like walker as a role player next year, but Gallo continues to disappoint, chandler has been hot and cold, TD isn’t impressing anyone (granted, his minutes are limited), and everyone else won’t be here next year so I could care less at this point. I would have loved to see D-Lee traded at the deadline, which I said on here for maybe someone like a monta ellis, so at least we had something going into next year. We’re literally going to have nothing and it seems like that phrase is becoming more evident by the day. I’m just becoming more and more pessimistic that any “superstar” never the less, LBJ is coming here.
I actually love Gallo more than ever. He has yet to make the adjustment to how teams have adjusted to him on the offensive end, but his defense is getting so good. He was terrific against Durant and he is figuring out how to get blocks consistently. He still has some lapses, but it’s consistently a much better team when he is out there.
Gallo will be fine. The players who won’t be are David Lee (for defensive reason) and Tracy McGrady, who destroys the offense. Both are terrible. That’s right, I said it: T-Mac is awful. As soon as he gets the ball, the offense dies.
if its true that all the USA basketball players love him and him being him plays a bigger role in some of the stars signing here he is worth every penny..
and as far as the knicks of the 90′s …. i loved that team to death… but lets face it. … individual talent..they were not that good .. Pat was great and the rest were roleplayers but they were a great “team”…
thats why as much as i hate him for the way he left, Pat RILEY is the greatest coach ever … and not phil jackson
Dude. What NBA star on an Olympic team wouldn’t luv an ASSISTANT who has to take no responisbility and tells them to just shoot?
We ALL luved Herb Williams until he took over for a while and had to be held accountable for what occured ont he floor.
Nobody gives a rats a-s-s about an Assistant being away from accountability telling the biggest stars in the game to have funs shooting. Imagine if this team od stars had real competition and had to rely on this coach?
He’s like the substitute teacher, when he’s there you know you won’t have any homework or have to do anything you would have to do under a real teacher.
Teachers need to be able to communicate. Not his strong suit.
PERFECT Analogy! That’s why eveybody supposedly luvs him and yet he isn’t helping them be better. False security!
Just like a substitute teacher, there is NO student accountability when the substitute is in. Students just do as they please. This is such a perfect analogy about this coach!
“PERFECT Analogy!”
Yea, I guess it is, isn’t it?
I wonder if it’ll stick? LOL
Yikes! Tommy Dee,
With all that snow outside, you still like our cahcing snowing ya some more.
“Under five seconds, you always foul,” D’Antoni said. “Above five seconds, it gets dicey. You watch players, all you have to do is motion right there [to shoot]; he’s taking three [foul] shots. That’s a bad mistake. I play the percentages. The worst that happens is you control your own destiny and we had a shot at the end…”
This this dumba-s-s coach realize that McGee has the ball in his hands and fsacing away from the basket above the arc? So now McGee is gonna go into a 3pt motion. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
This coach really sucks and you can see why this team has so many poor b-ball IQ players that never ever get smarter under this coach.
Percentages huh? JJ became ap perennial 3 pt shooter here while Gallo ralely got the ball. we play NO defense and yet we expect to win at the end. The paint is espeically opened and NO one boxes out ever and yet we play the percentages.
I’m telling ya, this coach bulls-h-i-t more than Isiah and that’s saying a lot.
We should play the percentages and get a real coach in here before our current coach keeps going into the motion.
Like I said in another thread, the coach isn’t the best “communicator” (even his supporters have admitted as much) don’t you need to be in order to teach?
The “coach” is being exposed, he’ll be out of here eventually. He had better pray LeBron does the “dummy move” and come here in the summer, because if he doesn’t he is as good as gone.
Fire up the U-Haul.
Yep! Did you see the Nets against Boston? I keep telling ya, the Nets have more building blocks for a guy like LBJ than our Knicks or even the current Cavaliers.
They have many guys that can play above the rim. Lopez is the real deal. This guy can actually move well for his size.
What the Nets haveing going against them is the venue and the Nets logo! That’s the only thing we have going for us!
whoa…let’s slow down about the nets here…they’re 6-52
Yep they are. Harris was hurt for a big part of the season and I think Thorn gave them the okay to tank it. That team has too much talent to be 6-52.
Watch this team play and you will see the talent on that team. Although Thorn is not the GM now, he’s good at trades and acquiring talent.
The Nets will have money to spend and they should get a decent pick int he draft I think. They’ll be in Neward at the newer Prudential center whcih should help.
Don’t sleep on the Nets! lol
“Although Thorn is not the GM now…”
Word? Can the Knicks hire him in 2011?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz lol
“the Nets have more building blocks for a guy like LBJ than our Knicks or even the current Cavaliers.”
I’ve been saying that for the longest time…
those building blocks have gone 6-52 this year.
i think people need to start judging gallo on what hes going to be as a player and how the knicks are developing him as a player …
he’s not going to be that 20+ ppg game swingman we thought he was..
he’s going to be an agile d’antoni 4 who is a very good post defender, stretches defenses with his range… good, not great, rebounder .. good help defender, and makes in impact in the box score in each category …
“i think people need to start judging gallo on what hes going to be as a player and how the knicks are developing him as a player …
he’s not going to be that 20+ ppg game swingman we thought he was..
he’s going to be an agile d’antoni 4 who is a very good post defender, stretches defenses with his range… good, not great, rebounder .. good help defender, and makes in impact in the box score in each category …”
Can the coach stop playing him as a “swingman” at the 3 position then?
I think that would be a start to “developing him as a player …” if “he’s going to be an agile d’antoni 4″ the coach keeps rolling him out there at the 3, I don’t understand how you feel that is “developing him” as a 4 at all.
No shots.
Either you let him play in the post a little bit more or you let him have the ball in his hands and set screens for him around the 3-point line. Right now Gallinari has NO position.
“Right now Gallinari has NO position.”
Exactly.
I wonder if HE even knows what his position is. This coach isn’t the best communicator, I wonder if he even knows what he’s supposed to be doing.
Meaning where his shots are going to come from etc., the guy can’t even get 10 shots off on a consistent basis. Sad.
_’antoni is out of here.
“Stay Patient My Friends”.
yer a little too early on that one.the friggn kid is only 221 years old and has only played in 80 games in his entire life(NBA that is)He needs a whole off season of getting ready instead of rehabbing his back.I bet by the time he is 25,hell be very good
and in time if he develops a good back to the basket game like they are trying to make him do, he’s going to be a matchup nightmare.. to tall to be guarded by 3′s and a good enough face up game to get around a 4 to the basket
Well Gallinari’s not going to become a 20+ points swingman in this league because the Knicks didn’t want him to become one. Which is silly in my opinion.
Gallinari’s a huge question mark – I think he’s a good kid, hopefully he’ll be a consistent impact player in the future.
“Well Gallinari’s not going to become a 20+ points swingman in this league because the Knicks didn’t want him to become one. Which is silly in my opinion.”
Explain. Do you feel that is his optimal position?
Gallinari gained weight – but he needed to add muscle to his body in my opinion. Why was he a great propsect and a great player in Italy? Because he was incredibly quick/elusive for a 6’10 player – he was known for his ability to put the ball on the floor.
Right now he looks like a 4 who’s not strong enough to play in the paint. Mike D’Antoni and Donnie Walsh are doing a TERRIBLE job with Gallinari in my opinion.
If he lost 100 lbs. I still think he’d be too slow to play the three on most nights. He’s got lead feet. Carmelo is the best 3 in the game followed closely by Durant, LeBron defies position, but you could possibly consider him a 2-3 swingman (exactly where I would like to see him play IF he came here), Gallinari isn’t even in the conversation. Never will be. Unfair I know. but at the 4 he’d have a chance to be top 5 at least if he reached his ceiling potential-wise, 19pts 8rebs 5ast 1.5stls 1.5blks.
When Bill Simmons called Gallo a “poor man’s Dirk” or something a few weeks ago in a column, it annoyed me a bit.
I know that a fair number of Knicks fans are being glass half-full optimists with Gallo right now (myself included). But I do have faith in him. I think that Gallo compared favorably wih a 21 year-old Dirk.
Hard to say if Gallo will ever really shake his back injury, because that’s a scary ass injury for anyone, let along a 2nd-year player. But he moves around so stiffly right now.
But when things go well for Gallo, he’s better passer & ball handler than Dirk was at that age. He’s a better 3-pt shooter (in my opinion) than Dirk was at the time. Dirk was an AWFUL defender at that age and Gallo is currently just a very bad defender (but with decent instincts).
And he was allowed to go out and play the way he wanted to because Don Nelson just let him and he had a PG who looked for him in places he felt comfortable playing in. Gallo pretty much plays in one spot on the court and hopes he’ll get the ball, and when he does he has no option but to jack it up. Sure, Gallo has to be more aggressive and go to the ball, but he does play with a lot of ball hogs and bad/unwilling passers.
We’ll never see what Gallo can be with this awful coach! This coach doesn’t develop anyone. Agreesive or selfish minded players get their shot attempts and has a chance to pad their stats.
Gallo is too unselfish, he doesn’t force his offense most of the time and he has no idea where he should be or how he can flourish in the whacky b-ball style. The new pt guard and Peanut Brittle might help in getting him the ball but this coach has no plays or approach put in to tget this guy free and the focus at times int he game.
Gallinari’s a pretty good defender in my opinion. He did a GREAT job against Durant – who btw torched Wilson Chandler.
I think Nowitzki was stronger AND more athletic than Gallinari – which is why the transition will be harder for Gallo IMO.
Gallinari is more explosive than Dirk (highter and quicker vertical), but Dirk has quicker feet and he’s a legit 7′ Gallo will never get a sneaker deal unless Nike starts selling Gravity Boots like the ones in Face/Off.
I disagree.
Check this out :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo_7LUIFBzY
Nowitzki was stronger and more explosive – maybe Gallinari’s potentially more athletic but he gained too much weight. He was A LOT more fluid last year, even though he was injuried.
Yes, I meant now though. I wasn’t comparing them at the same stage in their careers. After watching that though, Gallinari is no Nowtizki. Not even by a long shot. Dirk was a lot more under control with his drives and a better ball handler.
Gallinari if he doesn’t get a clear path for a dunk his driving shots aren’t even close. Half the time they’re desperation heaves with no chance of going in.
Damn, watching that video really depressed me, I was secretly hoping Gallinari could be close to a Nowitzki-type.
He did look slimmer, but not much less stiff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDUnaVxq3TY
Sigh… damn I hope he comes back a totally different player next year OR he’s traded during the 2010 draft for a pick in the lottery.
I don’t think Nowitzki was a better ballhandler because Gallinari used to show some flashy stuff last season and he doesn’t commit turnovers – but he gained weight too fast! I think he has little to no control over his body right now – which is why Dirk looked more fluid in this video!
The biggest problem IMO is the fact that Mike D’Antoni doesn’t run plays for him and doesn’t try to adapt his (Gallo’s) game to his body.
Gallinari’s not the next Nowitzki but I think he’ll be a Detlef Schrempf type of player – it’ll take some time though.
Would you trade him for a pick in this year’s draft?
I’m torn.
I don’t know – because he’s just scratching the surface of his potential but would I trade him for John Wall or DeMarcus Cousins? I think so – but I know this is not realistic and I’m willing to root for this kid, I’m like whatever.
You wouldn’t trade him for Paul but now you are torn about trading him for Wall or Cousins?
You are killing me Mucha. Absolutely killing me!!
Just admit you were wrong about that statement.
lol I wasn’t wrong – maybe you didn’t understand my reasoning I don’t know.
I’d trade all our young players for Chris Paul RIGHT NOW given that Donnie Walsh traded JJ and Hill. NOW we’d have enough capspace for Chris Paul and another max free agent.
But if you lose ALL the young players and don’t even have enough capspace for a max free agent (pre-deadline deal scenario + Paul)… then your franchise is f*cked up. Worse than the Hornets.
Oh trust me, not giving D’Antoni or Nash much credit for anything. Besides having a high scoring team they weren’t worth sh*t. No chance in the playoffs whatsoever. But all I’m saying is that D’Antoni has only been a good regular season coach with Nash: a PG who has the skills and runs the offense the way he wants and who he gets along with, personality-wise.
There’s only a handful of coaches I trust at all in the playoffs. And for some reason, D’Antoni is treated like (and paid) like he’s one of those guys. He’s not at all.
Ok guys, I know this is the knicks blog and i’m not even a hockey fan, but any sports fan should watch the USA play the all mighty Canada for the gold right now. Go USA
There’s a plane leaving for Italy some time in 2012. I expect both Gallo and Dassholi to be on it. Then Walsh can go somewhere and retire.
I still do not understand one thing. When D’assholi came here with this 7 seconds or less offense and the overt need for athletic long players who can run, why did we draft Gallo? He does not fit that mold. We drafted Jordan Hill who does fit that mold then traded him. This does not make sense to me. We never gave Hill a chance, you need minutes to develop and constant teaching, correcting what the player did wrong and repetition in the gym. So instead of seeing if indeed this guy was a player of the future we never give him minutes and then trade him for some cap space.
We traded JJ, Hill(a lottery pick) and a switch of #1 picks for a washed up allstar with a bum knee and to clear 5 million or so in cap space. That is one of the worst trades I ever saw.
well…i guess if you put it that way lol
let’s see who they get this summer and then we can tell what type of trade it was
Anyone remember Keith Van Horn or Jason Kapono?? Both GREAT shooters, but that was about it…..
Huh? Before the injuries Van Horn was a damn good player. Def more than just a shooter.
No doubt.
You forgot to mention the 2012 #1 pick.
Don’t you mean the protected 2012 1st round pick?
I’m just saying playa.
Is that a joke?
“Don’t you mean the protected 2012 1st round pick?
I’m just saying playa.”
Yea It’s not lottery protected, anything below top 5 belongs to them… playa.
New York’s own 2012 1st round pick to Houston (top 5 protected in 2012, top 5 protected in 2013, top 5 protected in 2014, and top 5 protected in the 2015 Draft). If Houston does not receive a 1st round pick from New York by the 2015 Draft, then New York will convey their own 2015 2nd round pick and 2016 2nd round pick to Houston. [Houston - New York - Sacramento, 2/18/2010]
Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php#ixzz0gsNoz3nA
“We traded JJ, Hill(a lottery pick) and a switch of #1 picks for a washed up allstar with a bum knee and to clear 5 million or so in cap space. That is one of the worst trades I ever saw.”
You might want to get that dollar amount right playa!!!!
“D’Antoni sucks as a coach!!! Bwaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaaa…..I want Isiah back!!! Bwaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaa”
Stay patient my friends.
ckuf uoy
So if you don’t like _’antoni that automatically means you want Isaiah back?
Man, you must have sucked on the debate team.
Who would you have hired Has?
Don’t be scared to come out and say it playa.
Tell us who you would’ve hired instead of D’Antoni.
Also, if it’s not to much trouble….can you please give us your top 5 coaches in the NBA right now?
Be careful, some people call this a trick question.
Play on playa………….
I’m not HAS but I would have convinced JVG to come out of retirement or hired Tom Thibedau. But I’m also not completely down on D’Antoni yet. We’ll see what he can do next year.
Top five current active coaches are easy to me:
Greg Popovich
Phil Jackson
Larry Brown
George Karl
RIck Adelman/Rick Carlisle (toss up)
Honorable mentions:
Stan Van Gundy
I love the job Scott Brooks is doing in OKL and Nate McMillan in Portland.
Pop – Duncan, Manu and Parker.
Phil – Kobe, Gasol
Karl – Melo
Stan – Superman
Brooks – Durant
Nate – Roy
Who do we have that can match up with any of those players? We don’t have any stars which is the reason why we made the trades we did.
I will say I love Adelman as a coach even though it’s obvious that without his star player (Yao) he will not make the playoffs this year. You guys joke me when I say stay patient but there’s a reason why I say it. Everybody was slurping Jennings when we didn’t draft him and he dropped 55 points. His production has gone down every month since then. Adelman was looking like a COY candidate in the beginning of the season and know he won’t make the playoffs and he won’t finish above 500 IMO.
If you give Larry Brown a few years he’ll make the team better but when he was with us he sucked and he set a record for the most starting lineups in a season. I asked before and I’ll ask again. Why does Larry get a pass for the year he was here?
My vote goes to Avery Johnson but the Mike D’Antoni selection was legitimate and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If it wasn’t for 2010 I’d have hired AVERY JOHNSON.
Larry shouldn’t get a pass for 2005-06. He sucked. He sabotaged the organization. He never wanted to be here. He was right to get kicked the f*ck out of here.
When it comes down to it Larry Brown will always have the utmost loyalty to the whole MJ/Tar Heel connection so that’s why he’s committed to making it work in Charlotte with the team he was given (with his former UNC PG).
Isiah Thomas sucked as a coach too. Really bad. But honestly, the best effort that any Knicks team has showed in the past several years was probably 2006-07 when there was the ‘Melo brawl and Isiah “fighting” for an extension.
If Adelman gets to finish anywhere above 41 wins this season it would be an amazing feat. First of all the Rockets play in the most competitive division in the NBA. No Yao. T-Mac was irrelevant before being traded. And yet they are fighting for a playoff spot in a conference with 11 teams that are .500+. Meanwhile the Knicks, struggled to crack 20 wins this year and getting to 25 might be a stretch in the Atlantic/East. For two years in a row. Adelman adjusts.
Larry shouldn’t get a pass.
Your argument implies that the coach has no effect on the game and that the only way to be competitive is to have a star.
The Bucks were picked to finish last in the East and they’re fighting for a 6th seed.
Thoughts playa?
“The Bucks were picked to finish last in the East and they’re fighting for a 6th seed.”
Picked to finish last by who?
Gotta link playa?
“Picked to finish last by who?”
Let me guess, you had them firmly in the playoff race and above .500 with less than 25 games to go, right? OK.
I was speaking in general, playa. In general.
However…
http://www.fanbay.net/nba/projected/eastern.htm
Gotta answer playa?
Thanks for the link HaS, even though this is from a fan.
Check this link out…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/219276-2009-2010-nba-predictions
Um… you realize 12th is not in the playoff picture in the East right… playa?
I could have swore you said they were picked to finish last. Wait, let me see…………
“The Bucks were picked to finish last in the East and they’re fighting for a 6th seed.”
“I could have swore you said they were picked to finish last. Wait, let me see”
Still didn’t answer the question.
12th or 15th in the East compared to 6th is an incredible feat, no?
Wait don’t answer that, you don’t answer anything else.
SMH
You just keep talking in circles like a pamphlet on scientology.
“12th or 15th in the East compared to 6th is an incredible feat, no?”
Somehow, I tend to think the return of the #1 draft pick from a few years ago played a larger part. All Star centers always helps the team.
Yea that’s it, answer something other than the original quest.
You’re new name is L. Ron Hubbard.
You have no concept of history whatsoever.
Phil Jackson was winning championships long before Kobe. And the year Jordan retired the Bulls won 55 games and were a bad call on Pippen away from going back to the finals. Jordan nor Kobe won a ring without Phil. And how did those teams do after he left? Lakers included.
Karl (Seattle, Mil), Brown (everywhere but NY), Carlise (Indiana, Detroit) their track records with and without superstar players speaks for itself.
Rick Adelman’s job in Houston this year and in Sacremento has always been underappreciated.
And even with Durant Scott Brooks is doing a great job with matchups, schemes, and managing his players. Again before Brooks that team couldn’t win anything.
You also limited me to active coaches but Chuck Daly (the man won in NJ pre-J Kidd), Mike Fratello (a Cleveland team that had no stars whatsoever), Lenny Wilkins (man is a basketball genius who won games with Kevin Willis as his best player) and Hubie Brown (remember the job he did in Memphis) all adjust to their rosters, they don’t wait for superstars.
I know you are a young cat, so I won’t kill you too much, but you make these general statements but you have no concept of basketball history. Its ok, I’ll stay patient for you to catch up. . .
Exactly.
And, in my opinion, Doc Rivers’ most impressive showing as Orlando coach was 1999-00 when he got a team of nobodies (best players: Darrell Armstrong and Ben Wallace) to 41-41.
[That's of course arguable because he got the whole Boston team on the same page in 2007-08 to go all the way...but I believe that KG's presence and Tom Thibodeau were both equally important that year.]
And the thing is that even when Doc got his “superstars” one year later he could never duplicate the magic (no pun intended) he did (I mean even though he never really had Grant Hill, but he did have T-Mac at his physical peak).
Knicks4life, thank you my brother. Thank you.
DVJ, I’m gonna let you go ahead and believe that _’antoni invented coaching playa.
You can carry his bags to the airport after he’s fired.
http://www.alitalia.com/us_en/
Play on playa…
“And the year Jordan retired the Bulls won 55 games and were a bad call on Pippen away from going back to the finals.”
They actually would’ve advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals bit the Finals…but I’ll let that one slide playa.
“Jordan nor Kobe won a ring without Phil.”
Did Phil win a ring without them?
“And how did those teams do after he left? Lakers included.”
You are aware that Phil didn’t create the triangle right?
Your also aware that Phil lost in the conference semis in 02-03, then lost in the Finals the next year, then he took a year break and came back only to lose in the first round from 05-07.
Karl lost in the first round his first 2 years in MIL, then lost in the conference finals in 2000-2001. The year after that he didn’t make the playoffs at all and then the year after that another first round exit.
Adelman’s 8 years in SAC, he lost 5 times in the first round and lost 3 times in the semis. I like Lenny and he does have the most wins as a coach but he also has the most losses.
“You also limited me to active coaches but Chuck Daly (the man won in NJ pre-J Kidd),”
Oh you mean the team that had Coleman, Kenny A, Petrovic, Mo Cheeks and Jayson Williams?
“I know you are a young cat, so I won’t kill you too much, but you make these general statements but you have no concept of basketball history. ”
Next time you should proof read before you post.
All good playa…
-The Bulls probably would have passed through Indiana that year to get to the Finals. That’s obviously debatable, but most people feel that way.
-Phil Jackson has never not coached a team without a legit superstar in their prime. You can argue that that’s a knock against him, but….
-Chuck Daly had Kenny, DC and Drazen…fine, but he clearly got more out of them than any other coach in the league. Obviously we never know how good Drazen would have been or if he had peaked in NJ, but Coleman and Anderson both were never the same players after Daly quit with the Nets. Maurice Cheeks? Umm, not really.
-Adelman has been the only coach who has made Sacto relevant. Yes, he had some good players. But C-Webb elevated his game when he played with the Kings. Why didn’t he play as well with the Bullets? Peja and Bibby also played their best ball in Sacto.
-Karl is an interesting case. He has always had talented players. And he has able to get his teams to at least contend for the playoffs every year, could never get the job done. But he has clearly been a huge part of the teams he’s been a part of. He got through to GP/Kemp. He got through to Big Dog/Ray Allen/Cassell. And now he’s getting throgh to ‘Melo & Co. So he might not be an elite coach but his ability to relate to young stars is pretty impressive.
Again if your point is that a coach really is only as good as his players then Nash is the reason _’antoni great in your opinion?
What about his philosophies have you convinced he’s a great coach who can win a title or at least contend for a championship?
He’s won in ONE situation, with ONE player and he hasn’t been to the Finals, yet he’s better than any other coach anyone can mention?
How is he, in your opinion, on the same level as Phil, Karl, Adelman who have shown the ability to win under different circumstances on different teams, without their best players or teams decimated by injury their whole careers?
asking me?
No, I agree withyou.
“How is he, in your opinion, on the same level as Phil, Karl, Adelman who have shown the ability to win under different circumstances on different teams, without their best players or teams decimated by injury their whole careers?”
Before I answer your question please answer this.
Do you really think Karl and Adelman are on the same level as Phil?
That’s such a stupid question I can’t even believe you asked it.
Forget it playa, you’re never going to answer.
_’antoni is your guy. We get it.
Hope you’re still a fan after he’s canned.
Don’t get mad at me playa….you said it not me….
“How is he, in your opinion, on the same level as Phil, Karl, Adelman who have shown the ability to win under different circumstances on different teams, “
Not mad at you playa.
I didn’t say that Adelman and Karl were on the level of Phil, if I had you wouldn’t have had to ask playa.
You’re just scared to answer the questions I’ve asked.
Comment by HaS
2010-02-28 21:27:19
Again if your point is that a coach really is only as good as his players then Nash is the reason _’antoni great in your opinion?
What about his philosophies have you convinced he’s a great coach who can win a title or at least contend for a championship?
He’s won in ONE situation, with ONE player and he hasn’t been to the Finals, yet he’s better than any other coach anyone can mention?
How is he, in your opinion, on the same level as Phil, Karl, Adelman who have shown the ability to win under different circumstances on different teams, without their best players or teams decimated by injury their whole careers?
Play on playa.
Sorry, I had to run to the grocery store real quick….ok, here we go.
“Again if your point is that a coach really is only as good as his players then Nash is the reason _’antoni great in your opinion?”
Not at all playa. If I recall correctly, when the Suns got Diaw from the Hawks, D’Antoni completely revamped his game. What position was Diaw playing in Atlanta and what position was he playing in PHX? Look how Marion fell of when he was traded to the Raptors from the Suns. He was a completely different player.
“What about his philosophies have you convinced he’s a great coach who can win a title or at least contend for a championship?”
He already contended for the title. Unless your talking about actually playing in the Finals…which if I’m not mistaken, Karl made it once in over 20 years as a head coach. Adelman made it twice in over 20 years as a head coach. It takes a lot to make it to the Finals my man.
“He’s won in ONE situation, with ONE player and he hasn’t been to the Finals, yet he’s better than any other coach anyone can mention”
Which player are you talking about? Nash or Amare..oh wait, that’s 2 players.
“How is he, in your opinion, on the same level as Phil, Karl, Adelman who have shown the ability to win under different circumstances on different teams, without their best players or teams decimated by injury their whole careers?”
He’s not on the level of Phil. I personally think Phil is the best coach in all of sports but that’s just my opinion. As for those other 2 coaches you named…they’ve coached for over 20 years each. Considering D’Antoni has only been coaching for 10 years, I think that’s a bad comparison.
Jim B. from Syracuse (head coach) was on A. Donahue’s show tonight and I couldn’t have said it better…and I quote….”the NBA is a players league, you can coach until your eye balls fall out.”
Come to the light HaS…trust me, you don’t want to be on the other side of the fence when things start to go well next year. You want to be on the same side of the fence as me (i think I just barfed in my mouth). The bandwagon will stay open until the end of this season then I’m sorry but I have to shut it down.
I’m up all night playa….let’s do this.
“I’m up all night playa….let’s do this.”
Let’s do what?
You didn’t answer anything.
SMH
You failed to even define your position or your opinion on anything, Just corny quips and condescending circle talk.
The only thing we know for sure is you’re a die hard Walsh and _’antoni fan.
Thanks for staying up with me but you probably won’t reply after this one. This is what I call my “Ali Shuffle”….
“You didn’t answer anything”
OK, this was your first question. You asked if I thought D’Antoni was great because of Nash.
“Again if your point is that a coach really is only as good as his players then Nash is the reason _’antoni great in your opinion?”
I replied with:
No and then I proceeded to give you 2 examples of players that were considered All Star material in Diaw and Marion that have pretty much fallen off the NBA map since they and D’Antoni have separated.
“Not at all playa. If I recall correctly, when the Suns got Diaw from the Hawks, D’Antoni completely revamped his game. What position was Diaw playing in Atlanta and what position was he playing in PHX? Look how Marion fell of when he was traded to the Raptors from the Suns. He was a completely different player. ”
Then you asked me what convinces me D’Antoni can compete for a Chip.
“What about his philosophies have you convinced he’s a great coach who can win a title or at least contend for a championship?”
I said he’s already contended for Chips and then again….I proceeded to give you 2 examples of other coaches considered here to be defensive minded and better than D’Antoni that have made it to the Finals a total of 3 times in over 40 years of coaching.
“He already contended for the title. Unless your talking about actually playing in the Finals…which if I’m not mistaken, Karl made it once in over 20 years as a head coach. Adelman made it twice in over 20 years as a head coach. It takes a lot to make it to the Finals my man.”
Then you said
“He’s won in ONE situation, with ONE player and he hasn’t been to the Finals”
I completely took the sails out of this paragraph by immediately proving D’Antoni had 2 go to players and not 1. In other words it makes it look like your just talking to talk and not thinking about what your typing.
I think gave you another example of a hall of fame coach that said the exact same thing some of us here have been saying….check it out playa
“Jim B. from Syracuse (head coach) was on A. Donahue’s show tonight and I couldn’t have said it better…and I quote….”the NBA is a players league, you can coach until your eye balls fall out.”
Which part did you want me to answer playa?
One could argue that no player on that team is the same without Nash, including Amar’e.
As far as Diaw “falling off” after not playing with _’antoni, I guess that wouldn’t have anything to do with not playing with a point guard of the caliber of Nash. The 7SOL “offense” definitely boosts players’ numbers as any run and gun system would. We all know _’antoni’s affinity for bigs who can stretch a defense, Larry Brown is a different coach and he’s being asked to do something different.
Marion’s “falling off” wouldn’t have to do with the injuries he’s suffered with since leaving Phoenix? He’s also split seasons on different teams the 2 seasons before this one. Not to mention he wasn’t playing with 2-time MVP Nash and his role is obviously different.
You still didn’t answer what is it about _’antoni’s philosophy that makes you confident he can contend for a championship?
A head coach needs to be able to teach players (that takes communication, he needs to juggle personalities (that takes patience and compromising not stubbornness), he needs to be able to motivate and push the right buttons to get his players to perform with effort (we’ve seen how this team comes out at the start of games and to begin 3rd quarters), he needs to manage the entire game and emphasize all points of it from offensive execution to defensive strategy (he admittedly didn’t emphasize defense last year and we’ve all seen his questionable play calling and substitution patterns) we’ll just have to agree to disagree on _’antoni man. I guess you’ll never answer that question though lol. Enjoy the groceries playa.
DVJ: You are using circular reasoning with Phil Jackson and I can’t even believe you mentioned Kenny Anderson and Derrick Coleman as superstars. Good players, far from superstars. The coaches I listed adjust to the players given to them and get the most out of them superstars or not. That was my point. I don’t even know where you are going with your argument.
And I never proof read. Have to for work, never will for a basketball blog.
But we have gone so far afield from the original point I’m going to try to steer us back.
Mike D is a great offensive basketball mind and a good coach IMO. I never disputed that. But to be a great coach and for this team to win a championship he has to manage late game situations better and coach defense.
Mike D can win 55 games with a superstar. But come playoff time unless he makes those adjustments we will never win what we all want, a ring
hankste ouye
You forgot the e’s playa.
this comment section of this blog is becoming unbearable.
“Yes. This is a star’s league. He can win with the right talent. (56%, 561 Votes)
Jury is still out. (34%, 339 Votes)
No. He’s a bad coach. (11%, 107 Votes)”
Reading the comments, it is filled with the same 107 people saying the exact same thing in every thread. As with most things in life, the small dissenting minority is the loudest.
Awwww… complain to Tommy.
The “accepting majority” would rather send emails to Tommy and complain rather than stand up and be accounted for by justifying their opinion of the coach.
DVJ is holding you down though.
HaS, I have been a proctologist for 40 years,but ive never seen an asshole like him LMAO PLAYA (I think hes H e r i s brother)
D-a-r-n G-Baked! You still believe in unicorns don’t ya?
Yes, ANY coach can win with the right talent because if they don’t , you can just say it’s not the right talent. lol
You know darn well that DVJ, Tommy and co is forging the vote count to keep some controversy alive. Otherwise, the D’Antoni family is voting all day!
Usually, tit’s rather difficult to judge what impacts a coach has on a team but not with this coach. If you can’t see that this coach is lost and has no answers, you need to seek Therapy! It’s not even close!
“Usually, tit’s rather difficult to judge what impacts a coach has on a team but not with this coach. If you can’t see that this coach is lost and has no answers, you need to seek Therapy! It’s not even close!”
If you don’t see the players on this team sucks or that there is a bigger plan in place then the hell with therapy…..you need a lobotomy.
DVJ,
You have got a one track mind buddy! you always find ways to defend this awful coach. You’re only reinforces that you come equipped with a “Close-N-Playa”
If you’re gonna carry Grandpa Donnie tune at all times, you better get yourself a two turntables at least. Otherwise you’re just scratching and your rap sucks!
Read up on “How to be a Playa”!
“You have got a one track mind buddy! you always find ways to defend this awful coach.”
Only reason I defend him is because of comments like this.
Do you really think D’Antoni is awful? Do you really think he should be fired?
“If you’re gonna carry Grandpa Donnie tune at all times, you better get yourself a two turntables at least. Otherwise you’re just scratching and your rap sucks! ”
Who is your problem with the coach or the GM or both? You sound like your all over the place with your insults. Do you have a problem with Donnie? Even though he’s done exactly what he said he was going to do from his very first press conference.
Hold it down playa…..
I am not siding with MD because I am not sold on him either but I had 1 question….
Can anyone name the team and coach that went to the playoffs the year that they decided to dismantle there current roster?
So the Knicks plan is 2010 we bring in new improved roster and in 2008-09 we dump all players not in our 2010 plans. I really want to know what coach suceeded at this like most people on this site expect MD to do this season.
To be fair, the goals for 2009-10 (besides clearing cap space) seemed to be to get to roughly 35+ wins (to put down a numerical goal) and/or compete for a playoff spot AND to see some semblance of developmen of all the young players on the team.
Those would have been “successes” … modest goals don’ you think?
And honestly during the nice run in December/January I htought that I had been too hard on D’Antoni….thinking hat he had gotten across to the team. But the Knicks are back to playing terribly in EVERY facet of the game. That’s why I’m dissapointed.
Like I said I am not siding with anyone just saving my opinion on MD for next year. I am dissapointed with this team but unlike you I never thought this team was going to be in the playoffs. I would have liked to see some improvements and consistency from our young core players but with a major roster overhaul I expected to lose often. The Knicks were playing bad before the trade and after the trade. They have a lot of work to do before I will say that MD is a good coach but just not ready to say he is horrible.
Now here is a post that I can respect.
People are acting like they thought we were going to make the playoffs this year.
That’s what tickles me………….pink.
Like they didn’t know we would suck for the last 2 years.
Expectations people….you need to keep them realistic.
“Like they didn’t know we would suck for the last 2 years.
Expectations people….you need to keep them realistic”
Didn’t Donnie and Mike D tell us this team was going to be competitve. Didn’t they set the expectations.
And before you say that they had to say that, no they didn’t. David Kahn in Minnesota made it clear his team was rebuilding, so did the Maloofs in Sacremento. Rod Thorn (via Kiki) did the same in NJ.
Ah..Knicks4life
If only we lived in Minnesota or Sacramento or the Swamp.
The fan base for those teams and our team is a big difference.
10 years of us sucking and we’re finally in a position to build the team right not even 2 years after Walsh took over. I would say that’s a good thing.
That is the difference. You are convinced it is a good thing.
I say the jury is out, but still firmly believe trading all those draft picks will come back to haunt us.
“I say the jury is out, but still firmly believe trading all those draft picks will come back to haunt us.”
All those draft picks?
All those?
Let’s see, we traded a future 1st round pick and swapped (not traded) another.
We traded Jordan Hill who was our 1st rounder this year, so I’ll give you that. I’m giving you that well……because it’s true. (see I can play fair)
So far I’ve counted 2. One we’ve already used and another that’s top 5 protected. There was nothing Donnie could do about this upcoming draft because your idol (just kidding) traded it.
Some how I think we all here (including you) know that Donnie will be able to secure a 1st rounder this year with his 2 second rounders and unlimited cash. (Even though he’s only allowed to spend $3 million each pick)
Who’s to say Donnie won’t trade both 2nd rounders for a late first and then turn around and buy another late first rounder?
You just have to stay patient my friends.
Like Clyde says every night on the air…”basketball is a game of improvisation folks.”
It’s not only true on the court but also upstairs.
Any team that fails to reach the playoffs sucks. Even teams that do make the playoffs can suck (i.e. 2003-04 Knicks)
When you play in the Eastern Conference, you should aim to make the playoffs. Sorry.
I didn’t like the roster any better than you did. But if the coach was as good as you say he is, and if you have any talent on your team whatsoever, you have to make it your aim to make the playoffs. #2 or #3 seed? No. #8 seed? Why not.
I’m sorry, but it’s not too much to hope for a competitive team. Is Charlotte or Milwaukee that much better than the Knicks? I don’t believe so. I don’t think that Miami, Toronto or Chicago are much better either, but in the case of those teams they at least have a legit stud on their team.
So playoffs wasn’t an expectation. It was merely an objective for the season.
“I didn’t like the roster any better than you did. But if the coach was as good as you say he is, and if you have any talent on your team whatsoever, you have to make it your aim to make the playoffs. ”
What do you think D’Antoni was doing when he wasn’t giving Hill and Douglas any minutes? You don’t remember half this blog ready to hang D’Antoni in the middle of Central Park because he wasn’t giving the rooks minutes? He’s come out several times and said his goal was to make the playoffs. This brings me back to what I’ve been trying to say….the team we have is not good enough to make the playoffs. We’ve sucked for the last decade. Why would we make the playoffs these last 2 years? Do you really think the coach can turn around a team like we had and actually play 500 or better basketball? (which is what it would take to make the playoffs).
Lower some of those expectations.
RR….I am not sure if you have ever read one of the many post i have left here detailing why donnie has been a failure as a GM but just for you….Blowing our last 2 back to back lottery picks, not knowing when to pull the trigger on trades, failing to improve the teams future with trades, allowing the coach to bad mouth and devalued assets on our team, lack of talent evaluation etc etc…In the end all you guys can say is he cleared cap space for 2010 ok then great the only guy worth getting is LBJ so once again it is LBJ or bust because he has accomplished nothing to make this team better other then make 2010 cap space.
2011 would of been huge for us cap space wise if donnie never did a thing so he cant get credit for something that would of been there anyway!! Why is that so hard to understand? He traded away a ton in draft picks in my opinon and was not worth doing if there is no LBJ to follow!! I dont think it could be made any more clear, oh lets not forget signing a coach who has no belief in deffensive effort what so ever!!
sorry RR i thought you where talking GM not just coach but I have been saying for a while that failure like this starts from the top down! GM, Coach players everybody but the top leads and they have failed.
Blackwood if I do not respond to a question it is not because I do not have a answer but because I have left the site. I don’t think of myself as a GM or coach hence that is the reason I don’t speak down on either DW or MD. I do throw out a few positive pontential trade ideas that I think would help this team but in the end I do not get paid the large salary that MD or DW get to run this organization..
But to answer your questions first off we do not know if he blew the last two lottery picks because neither Gallo or Hill have played long enough for us to say they were not worthy of the pick. We can discuss that question 2yrs from now. As far as trades we really don’t know what was fact or rumor on potential swapping of players but in my mind he has came to this organization with a plan and he is sticking to it. Unfortunately because of the horrible contracts dished out to players not by him he had to get rid of some picks to be the team with the most cap room in a year where the FA class is the best of all time…
2010 not 2011 is the year of the best FA class of all time!!! So we can resume this conversation after the summer of truth my friend. Some may think LBJ or bust but I say it is Title contender or bust no matter who the signings are. So if its LBJ, Bosh and ???? or Joe J, D Lee, T MAC and ??? all I care about is the end result. I don’t want a 41-41 1 and out team I want a legitimate playoff run with a feeling of this is a good team or a title winner. We will see Blackwood and my fellow Knick fans…
Also wanted to add this:
2010-11 roster without DW’s trades:
G- Crawford $10mil
G- TD $1mil
F- JJ $7mil
F- Rand $17.3mil
F- Gallo $3.3mil
F- Chan $2.1mil
F/C Hill $2.7mil
C- EC $11.2 mil
total $55mil plus only can resign Lee & Robinson bird rights & a mid level cause were over cap:
This option means that Knicks can not even offer contracts to the following:
LBJ, D Wade, C Bosh, Dirk N, A Stoud, C Boozer, J John, P Pierce, Y Ming, R Gay, B Roy, B Haywood.
I as a knicks fan would have been extremely disapointed to be watching that roster with 2 2nd rd draft picks and no abilty to sign any of those FA’s.
2011 consist of following FA’s if they do sign extension. Keep in mind if no agreement is made with owners many of these guys will resign with current team fearing there loss of big salary through new agreement:
Melo, Nene, C Butler, K Perkins, T Parker, T Prince, D West.
Now we gave up 1 pick in 2012 & swapped 2011 if we have the better pick. That is a small price to pay when you look at the possibilities of new roster in 2010. Or would you have wanted option B that losing team over the cap and waiting for that mediocre FA class in 2011?
FYI
George Karl and Adelman have been to 4 Conference Finals each in over 20 years of coaching.
D’Antoni has been to 2 in LESS than 10 years of coaching.
Do the math on that playa……….
Byron Scott has done better then him, 3 division championships 2 final appearances coached the all star game in 2008 and was the NBA coach of the year in 2007-2008 season. thats in less then 10 years.
Rick Adelman and George Karl each had to face MJ in the NBA Finals.
It’s hard to hold that against guys. I’d like to think the Knicks could/would have won 1-2 championships if they didn’t have the Jordan obstacle.
That 1991-92 Blazers team was really good and so was the 1995-96 Sonics. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that both of those teams won it all. Don’t Adelman and Karl look a whole lot better now?
Meanwhile D’Antoni has proven that he’s incapable of winning whatsoever without Steve Nash on his roster.
“Rick Adelman and George Karl each had to face MJ in the NBA Finals. ”
What about all those other years they made the playoffs and were one and done? I know your not trying to make excuses but come on with the excuses playa.
“It’s hard to hold that against guys. I’d like to think the Knicks could/would have won 1-2 championships if they didn’t have the Jordan obstacle.”
I actually agree with you here but again…come on with the excuses. I use to love when the Knicks and Bulls would meet in the playoffs. It was our chance to knock off the best player in the world in front of the world. Believe it or not but I would actually not sign Lebron and sign Joe Johnson and Amare to reasonable deals and go head to head with the Cavs just like we use to do with the Bulls.
I know Donnie is after Lebron but I would not be mad at the above situation if the price was right on both of their contracts.
thats 2 straight trips to the finals
“Meanwhile D’Antoni has proven that he’s incapable of winning whatsoever without Steve Nash on his roster.”
Why would you say that when the team he’s had sucks? He’s only had a year and a half with a team filled of mostly players that the organization was trapped with. We had no other options when it came to our roster and as well all know….the roster he inherited sucked. Let’s not forgot what this organization was when Donnie took over. We were in complete SHAMBLES. Our President of Basketball Operations / Head Coach was found guilty of Sexual Harassment. The face of our franchise was having quickies with interns. There was talk of Steph blackballing Isiah. There was the big Larry Brown fiasco. When the commissioner of the league has to get involved with the business of your team, you know your in trouble. By the way, who can forget the altercation with Isiah and Q -Rich on the bench or the Zach and Nate clash that ended up with Zach throwing water in Nate’s face lol. Ah the good old days!!!
Well Donnie has turned that all around next year with a little thing I like to call …………OPTIONS. Starting this summer, there is no direction we can’t go in. We will be able to do whatever we want….whenever we want.
And on that note fellas…..till tomorrow.
As always………..
Stay Patient My Friends.
what happened with playa?
Here’s a news flash,Rich mediocre athletes don’t have a sense of urgency. ARod didn’t for years.
He got smart,made the change-thats when he got on a serious
focused winning team -The Yanks,Im sure being around Jeter & Co.changed his attitude.
also because of Joe Torre’s ethic and management style.
The Rangers had it when they got Mike Richter (got rid of all distractions,won the StanleyCup.Messier 1 Top player)
and the Knicks had it when they hired Riley-
When MD’A coached PHX -Steve Nash and A.Stod.took some of his OFFENSIVE suggestions…
made his game somewhat better.Made the playoffs,they were great.They were so focused on the O ,where was the D?
They lost-
Kerr was right.No D-
If you look at the Knicks W/L column-the record does not lie-
..what about if MD’A(without busting a blood vessel)
just starts busting BIG balls and taking
total George Patton control in the last 5 minutes? He just stands there w his arms folded.
Ive seen him give up (looking sad)at games- the TV doesn’t show that-
next year when he has some “decent” players if they start losing again it will be because of L.O defense- I hope he can fix it- Im
optimistic- Urgency/Eye of the tiger…get back! Apollo Creed!!!!
One other thing- Last year and earlier this season D.Lee shot the ball like George Mikan from the 50’s.
But he improved. If he improves his overall defensive intensity -he could be a VERY dangerous player. BIG IF!
BOTTON LINE-The last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter have to be coached smarter….if the game is
changing as you say ,then how come we still have to watch nail biters? tied up with less than 5 minutes,MD’A lets
his players defend with a 5ft gap w no hands up (Gallo)-its only a 1/2 a second after the opposing team shoots the ball ,
that thats when hands go up.
alright im done…
“The last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter have to be coached smarter…”
Exactly.
But you’re right, a couple of people here will bust a blood vessel soon and absolutely refuse to listen to logic or reason.