Despite the fact that the team, on the court, is struggling, the Knicks will be able to present an opportunity to a star player.
We know this.
That really needs to be understood though, I believe.
When has New York opened it’s doors like this to a star player? A player who was already on top of their game?
Lawrence Taylor, in my lifetime, is the All-Time greatest player that New York sports has ever seen. Without question the man who revolutionized the linebacker position and the greatest defensive player of them all. In the history of the NFL.
At least that’s what I think. And you won’t get an argument from anywhere other than maybe Chicago.
Obviously, LT was drafted by the Giants.
A-Rod. Roger Clemens? I would think yes, but baseball is a different animal.
I go back to Mark Messier, who was on top of the hockey world. If Mess never came here and slayed the dragon of 54-years, does he go on to become one of the Top 3 greatest hockey players of all time? Messier has the rings and the stats to back up that argument. He had a better career than Mario Lemeuix.
We’ll never know, because he WANTED New York. He wanted the challenge knowing the impact and the glory that came along with it.
The point being, and I’ve said this enough but it bears repeating, I truly believe that the glory and legend of winning in New York trumps everything.
I really do.
It’s why hockey was on another level in 1994. People talk about this year’s Olympics. If you remember the Rangers run in 1994, it was that captivating for about a month followed by a party you could never imagine and it was all ours. I was a hockey fan who knew about the Rangers’ curse and lived with it. There weren’t too many hockey fans before Messier. In 1994, it captivated 8 million people.
One person, one star, carried hockey to this town and made it care. It made him a legend.
Oh, and the NHL’s ratings were simply never higher. The game had absolutely peaked in 94 only to shoot itself in the foot that offseason because of greed.
Bottom line is this, if you’re a true NY fan you understand the importance of winning in this city.
And that is a ridiculous opportunity. I’m not trying to get anyone’s hopes up, if you’ve been a fan in this city long enough you get the point. That sells itself.
It’s a ridiculous opportunity someone is going to run with and it has to be something that a star will consider when making a decision.
I agree that the allure of NYC is attractive to a super star. And it will ultimately be the deciding factor in Lebron walking in the door of One Penn Plaza. He understands the history and the impact of being successful in the largest media market in the world.
THERE I SAID IT!
thats why i signed onto the 2010 plan..
With the changes coming to the CBA in 2011 i think 2010 is a once in a generation chance to reshape a franchise. There will not be a similar chance the next year. BRI % will be dropping and owners will be looking to control the growth of payroll..
If we are talking about a 50/50 BRI split (down from 57/43) you could see the cap shrink to UNDER 50 mil in 2011… closer to 45 mil per team.
So 16 mil spent on max players in 2010 will likely be the peak of annual comp. That’s why looking for Melo to give up 18.5 mil in 2011 is a bit of a reach when no other team may not be able to offer over 13.5 per. And I dont think Melo has the sense of history and his place in it to take that large of a pay cut and leave Denver.
The uncertainty in the CBA post 2010 is likely the reason why Donnie put all his eggs in the 2010 basket. And there really is no other way to interpret it.. .. He did just that when he traded JJ, Hill and the draft picks to move the additional cal room up a year.
this Summer is make or break.. that’s why Donnie gets the big bucks. it is what it is.
In other news.. Fred Kerber at the Post wrote a short piece on Lee’s appeal to the Nets.. Please please please..
“The Nets are an interesting team,” said Lee, “They’re a clear example of a team whose talent level doesn’t reflect the record.
“If statistics work out, they get the No. 1 pick,” Lee said, “They have a great center in Lopez, an All-Star point guard, Devin Harris, great athleticism with wings Chris Douglas-Roberts and Terrence Williams. They could have a big turnaround year next year if they get a good free agent and the No. 1 draft pick. It’s going to be interesting which direction they go.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/lee_likes_appeal_of_nets_CUZzQRPXyp8CzjOPCs4KGJ#ixzz0havnIMuI
He is right in his analysis. Whether he is the FA remains to be seen. But they could be a playoff team next season, and they don’t even need the #1 pick, they got the pieces in place.
Who has the better talent and future, Knicks or Nets?
If LBJ comes to NY. The answer is simple.
Oh yeah, it’s quite simple, based on that huge IF you stamped at the beginning of your post.
Do you have to question that? I hate thinking about it. The Nets actually spent time reconstructing, drafting and trading big pieces for young guys with upside (see the Kidd trade that included Harris).
The Nets no doubt have more talent, and if their summer works how they want it to they’ll have one hell of a bench and should become an instant powerhouse. That remains yet to be seen.
I don’t see Lee wearing a Knicks uniform next year. He knows he deserves to get paid. His ultimate price really will be dictated by the market, but I hope he gets the money he’s looking for.
He deserves it.
You also used a big IF on the Nets summer plan.
True, that applies to every team going into this summer. Yet NJ will have a lottery pick, and will probably get up and close with Wall, Turner, Cousins, Favours, and so on. The Nets have, regrettably, a ton of talent in their roster, and will only expand thanks to all those years they spent rebuilding it (not 2).
I tend to think than teams with better rosters, Chicago, Clips (although it is the Clips), Miami (if they hang on to Wade), pose an appeal bigger than just the attraction of the city on which they reside in.
No can deny the appeal of NY. They can’t deny that NY won’t have more than 2 pieces waiting for a max guy.
Agreed.
I still think LBJ comes here next summer and goes for glory.
Even if they don’t win a championship this year his home states has plenty to thank him for.
Rolando Blackman, Buck Williams, Kiki Vandeweghe, Terry Cummings, Vin Baker, Stephon Marbury, etc.
****The NY Knicks, where all-star careers go to die.****
Messier was a god-send, and his heart was totally in the game, not splitting time between the game and the bank. He was as hungry when he got here as he was in the beginning of his career. A lot of players want to be the star the team is built around, but not the rock the team can stand on. We need hungry guys who want to play, who can learn to win together. A few stable vets in the locker room will help, but we’re not gonna run for 82 games and 3 or 4 rounds in the playoffs on old legs. They just need to get some good young talent and build a championship team. You don’t have to draft youth, you can trade for youth. Players like Joe Johnson and Camby have mileage on them… although Johnson not as much. Regardless, we don’t need a team with a two year win-now window. Even if we get LeBron, he needs to be here for the long haul, ’cause we just might not win the first two years. Players like Durant are getting better, and new stars are emerging. It will never be easy to win a championship, so we need to be a solid “team” above everything else. We’ve gotten proven stars before (although none like James), and they never shined bright enough to light up broadway.
I agree that the Knicks need a relatively young star who is hungry for a championship. In addition to Lebron that limited group might include Durant, Bosh, or Chris Paul. When you get to a Joe Johnson, Mano Ginobili, Richard Hamilton you are already at the complimentary player level. The 2010 plan is worth the gamble. If Lebron decides on NY it is a homerun by any measure. If the star is not Lebron but turns out to be Bosh, it will be a homerun only if chemistry is formed with a worthy cast of talented and hungry complimentary players. A fatal error would be to try to build around aging former all stars. I don’t think Walsh will allow that to happen.
That’s where a team buil by the draft is so useful. Take a look at the Nets, Bulls or the Clips and the Clips. They have young talented squads, and they will have money to attract talent, plus their draft pick for this year’s draft, which in the Net’s case looks real promoising.
Imo, Walsh is looking to build around one max guy, knowing that going for 2 will leve him with no $ to bring in a competitive roster. Let us not forget that D’antoni’s system is based on the smarts of talented PG, which the stars Walsh is looking for aren’t, and I don’t see this team getting a Nash like PG anytime soon. This will be an important fact to watch in the future.
Comment by Kwayry
2010-03-07 15:16:41
“But this is a rebuilding process. It’s going to get better. History will tell you that.”
What history? Can you point to a team, other than the Knicks, that went through a rebuidling process without their draft picks? Take your time.
Still waiting for the answer.
I’m not going to dispute your points at all, but it should be pointed out that the Knicks still have a 2011 pick, even if it is Houston’s spot.
Based on last year’s draft, I can reasonably speculate that the financial state of many teams will lead to first round picks to be for sale. This is where Dolan’s deep pockets (just bleed Cablevision customers like me more) can be a plus. Buy a couple of low firsts and package them for a higher spot that another team can’t afford with the mandated salary slot for that level pick, etc.
Just my own perceptions, but I think 2010 and probably 2011 will be having some fire sale picks as franchises struggle with solvency. This, I believe, is going to be the gist of the new CBA agreement negotiations right after the 2011 draft as despite the cap, the “Have $” teams have a tremendous advantage over the “Have-not $” teams in poorer and smaller markets.
The Knicks may have a two year window where they can spend Dolan’s Dollars for picks.
Giving up on Hill still hurts though, and the lack of talent analysis that lead to acquiring Douglas still hurts.
Just my perceptions, of course.
its a good point with Houston.
Nothing is guaranteed in the west… and while I do like the team Houston is putting together, they are very lack of a superstar and there is a chance they regress next year. There is a good shot that even if they have a better record then us in 2011, we could be in the playoffs and out of the lottery and they could be out of the playoffs and in the lottery.
If by any reason this team has a crappy record next season, Houston will swap, and that will a be pick wasted. Our hope is that they’re record is worse.
I hope your perceptions stay on course, for that is what I’m thinking DW should be doing, starting with this draft.
These 2 2nd rounders should be traded for a late 1st and then another should be bought. That’s 2 more assets this team will need for the long haul.
its not even about better record. Its about making the playoffs.
como draft time, the record will matter
i mean with Houston and the switching picks. They could have a better record then us but miss the playoffs.
They do have a tough division. Let’s see how Houston reasses their team during the offseason and how Yao comes back.
Boston
I agree with everything Tommy said.
I also agree with Biggie.
The only thing about this 2010 plan that I have not been on board with is the notion that we “need” two max free agents. I, for one, beleive that LBJ is more than enough. Especially everything we gave up for JJ expiring deal. If it was Curry’s 11mil then that would be a different horse.
I remember the 94 season, it was glorious. Thing is, Messier didn’t come to an almost empty house (like the Knicks’ roster come summer), not only did he come in with Graves, but he was received by guys like Leech, Richter, Nemchinov, Beukeboom that already made a good team. Messier had patience, waited, and that team went on to to get that Cup. So here’s what I think when I look at LBJ:
1. Conquering NYC and becoming the player that turns around a losing franchise into a winning one to go into sports history is a challenge made for players like him. That is undeniable, period.
2. Messier came from a winning environment such as the Oilers. He’d already experienced winning, James hasn’t. He’s been waiting for his GM to form a team good enough to get him that shot, so if he moves, he’ll go to a place, imo, where he can win as fast as possible. If DW can’t creat that environment for him, I sadly don’t see him here.
Great points!
David Lee to the Nets come summer makes a lot of sense. If they get the #1 pick John Wall, they could then turn around and trade Devin Harris to say Memphis in a sign and trade for RFA Rudy Gay, they have a big hole at the 3 spot. Wall, Lee, Gay, Lee and Lopez is not terrible. As far as the Knicks, the upcoming CBA issues come the summer of 2011 could be a major factor in maybe LBJ and Bosh coming to the Knicks. Not only could the cap go down to 45 million dollars, even if they keep the same system, the Knicks are screwed to an extent, but not as bad as the cavs, a lot of the cavs players such as Vajejao and Jamison, Mo williams, west, have a lot of yrs left on there deals and they will not have any flexibility at all to improve the club. Knicks could send up with LBJ, Bosh, Camby for the mid level exception which is close to 6-7 mil a year, T-Mac will probably be back for the bi-annunal exception which is 2 million dollars, then they probably trade curry’s contract with either Chandler or Gallo, probably chandler for a PG, whether it’s Ellis, Arenas, Baron Davis or Hinrich. Or they could trade curry’s contract to say the Bobcats for say DJ augustine and Boris Diaw, something like that. I still think Amare opts out and goes to Miami.
U could have a team next year of LBJ, T-Mac, Chandler or Gallo at the 3, Bosh at the 4, Camby at 5, Bench-Augustine, Diaw, Chandler or gallo, House, Rodriguez, walker, Tony Douglas.
The CBA upcoming issue is why I am convince that EC will be traded for a star after the summer of Lebron. This year is proff that a lot of teams want to stay south of the cap line.
I agree with that statement. Team’s are gonna be looking to get that salary, and we know there are a bunch of team’s wanting to stay below that cap.
Thing is, EC alone won’t be enough to get a star, though it is a really nice dream. I think a more realistic scenario sees trading EC + to get some nice picks (hopefully one to cover that mising 2012 and young cheap talent). Teams like NO, Utah, GS, among others will be looking to save some money.
But the CBA’s gonna put a lot of teams in trouble next season, and there’s something to look out for.
Exactly why I keep saying the smart move donnie can make is put an all out blitz on for CP3!! He is on a team with money issues and that has a young cheap really good PG (that donnie could of drafted) to replace CP3. Having what I see as the best PG in the game is key to all other things! He can make the most of players bring out there best and trust my you want a guy like CP3 to not only attract LBJ but with them both on the floor the offense will be flowing like nothing we have ever seen. At the very least if we have CP3 and miss on LBJ we still will be much better suited to build from the the best PG in the game up!
Tommy,
I love you, but I think you’ve been hitting the sauce a little too much.
There is no way James, Wade, or Bosh is coming to an organization with three role players (Gallo, Chandler, and Lee) That’s what Lee is despite the all star caliber offense when you factor in defense and the fact that his stats are inflated by the lack of another big man to rebound.
We traded away any hope of rebuilding this mess when we gave up Hill, the 2012 pick, and the 2011 swap just to move some extra cap space from 2011 to 2010 even though we already had a ton of space for 2010 anyway.
We have no assets, no picks, and are going to wind up paying 15M for an 8m-10M player like Joe Johnson. YES, Joe Johnson is another overrated inefficient scorer that D’Antoni seems to love . He might be one of the better SGs out there, but that’s because there’s a dearth of real quality at the position in the NBA right now.
This summer has decade written over it. If we sign Joe Johnson to a mid teens million deal, I’m packing my bags and heading to Oklahoma City.
Let’s be honest. Walsh isn’t anything special as a talent evaluator. It’s purely pot luck with him.
D’Antoni is no better and his system is atrocious unless the team is made of all great 3 point shooters. Very good ones will not suffice (let alone medicore and bad ones like the Knicks have). They have to be great otherwise the results will be very volatile and the team will never have the consistency to beat elite defensive teams with good offense.
I’ve seen enough to know I am right.