Keeping Johnson May Cost Hawks in Long Run

If it gets to the point where LBJ, Wade and Bosh are a red light and you’re looking from Johnson on down, I would seriously consider taking a long look at Gay to start evaluating how much it would get him to land in NY. It should be cheaper and it can give you room to talk to Boozer (who also would demand less money), Camby and co.
I’ve been reading that Manu just might leave SA, if that’s the case, there’s another guy you want to have a sit down with.
I just really hope that there’s no overpayment, but if DW strikes out, he might just be looking at that type of scenario.

I think Chris Bosh is a max player if he signs with a 1B type of player a la Joe Johnson. Chris Bosh at $16.569 million + Joe Johnson at $15 million is a great summer.

The Knicks should consider overpaying if they can sign one 1st tier free agent (LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh) plus a 2nd tier free agent (Amare Stoudemire, Joe Johnson and – to a certain extent – David Lee). If the Knicks have to overpay Joe Johnson to sign LeBron James or Chris Bosh, Donnie Walsh will have to do it. It’s all about 2010 now.

Ok, I get your point, but after overpaying two players (one being a 1A, the other a 1B, though I wouldn’t sign Lee by any means), You have 6 players, what else do you do?

You have a great starting line-up (say Bosh, Johnson, Gallinari, Chandler, Douglas), a weak bench (Bill Walker, a couple of 2nd round draft picks and 4 minimum contracts) plus – literally – a huge trade asset (Eddy Curry).

I think it’s alright. Depth will be a problem but with Curry’s contract I think the Knicks will find a way to get another star player or a deeper bench.

No center, no point guard.

That’s where I’m going. Douglas may prove to be a good player, but that remains to be seen. You’re planning to use Bosh as your C, right? Gallo at PF, and so on, Your rebounding problems won’t subside, imho. Having at least 2 big men is a must on this team.
On your EC trade issue, I don’t see many teams taking him just for his contract, he’l have to be packaged. You’re looking to get a star player, liike who? A star player would be great, but the team’s depth would be even bigger, and unsolvable until the offseason.

I have to disagree. Both Bosh and Johnson are max players who can be built around. I don’t even think the Hawks would be nearly as good without Johnson. Bosh is one of the top players in the league. Im just not sure they are paired with the right type of players right now, but Johnson especially has been pretty clutch throughout his career. Johnson really needs a good pg and Bosh really needs a Camby-like center behind him. I would much rather see the Knicks get one max and then solid veterans like Felton and Camby to build a team around them.

Lock the stars up first…then we can worry about filling out the roster.

It’s not that hard to fill out a roster once you have 2 stars on your team.

I don’t think you need a real point guard with Chris Bosh and Joe Johnson. The Hawks are the 4th seed in the East despite the fact that Mike Bibby sucks on both ends of the court. I don’t think that’s a problem.

Interior defense would be a major concern though. Chris Bosh is a 5 under Mike D’Antoni but he needs a back-up. That being said, I think the Knicks will have enough time to trade Eddy Curry for a legitimate (bench) post player a la Haywood or Camby.

It doesn’t matter if we have to wait one more year to build a GREAT, WELL-BALANCED TEAM. We won’t be competing for a championship in 2010-2011 unless LeBron James signs with the Knicks anyways.

Exactly.

Thank you.

Tommy- you are pretty much on the money wth this one. The knicks plan should be very simple. Objective 1 was to get room under the cap which they dd. To me that was not genius just patience. Now Objective 2 is the more difficult one because the Knick can either do what they are good at which is spend foolishly or take a different turn for once in their history. The goal is to get a A plus star. To me this years free agency has two. Wade and Lebron. Everyone else are not max players PERIOD! If these two players are unavailable plan b should be a mix of more patience and better supporting cast. This means signing gay, signing camby, and signing boozer to create a better fundation and core. With Boozer and Camby the Knicks are already substantially better on defense and Boozer can put up the same offensive numbers we lost wth Lee only boozer is a better defender and tougher. Gay is a young, long, and athletic forward/guard who is a big time upgrade over chandler. With chandler or Gallo moving to the bench our bench instantly becomes deeper. These are players who are good and won’t command the max. Then walsh shoud be patient and wait for curry’s contract to expire and sign Carmelo Anthony the next year. This should be plan B. Plan B should not be sign Bosh or Johnson to max contracts and build around B plus stars.

I’ll be extemely happy if the Knicks sign Chris Bosh and Joe Johnson to max contracts. It’s all about 2010 – if Donnie Walsh has to overpay one All-Star to get a second one he’ll have to do it, period.

Toney Douglas
Joe Johnson
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Chris Bosh

Eddy Curry – For Emeka Okafor and Darren Collison?
Bill Walker
2 2nd round draft picks
4 Minimum contracts

The Knicks will be championship contenders in 2011-2012 with that core. If Donnie Walsh trades Eddy Curry for 2 serviceable players or another star, and then uses the mid-level exception to sign a valuable bench player – the Knicks will have all the pieces considering that Mike D’Antoni likes to have an 8-man rotation IMO.

Interesting. What a radically different POV.

C’mon Mucha, as much as we all want this to happen, we gotta be rational. It’s not about making the team fight for a ring immediately, it’s about giving your top player a complete team. I’ve never seen Johnson as a big time clutch player, and I think it’s much easier to build around a big man than a SG, because there’ll be lot more of those available than big men during the summer.
Bosh can do his game with a solid big man next to him, and that can easily be Camby. You can get Wallace at the vet min and 2 big men on the draft, so they’ll be learning from tough guys.
The thought of Felton asking for 10 mil is ridiculous so I’ll pass. What if Allen and Manu opt out, would you give it a go at any of those and see how much it would take to have Gay (who at least is younger and has a ton of upside)? If you choose to, you can get Blake for a cheap contract, or even S-Rod for less than his QO

Didn’t quite understand. Horford’s a target for Atlanta to max out on, or for us to go after? He’s not an RFA until ’11, right?

It’s not hard to fill out a roster, but the roster would have to have depth in terms of talent, and unless Donnie plays the the numbers game like a chess champion, there won’t be much money for talent. A bunch of tier one players are hurt right now… including Kobe, D. Williams and CP3 as well as Wade, LeBron and Bosh. You have to have depth beyond the top two guys because this league is wearing down stars. This will be particularly true if the coach keeps going 7 players or less. We’ll need players who can step in as the injuries pop up during the year. You can’t just think stars, you have to think team.

Corey Maggette who isn’t a star player but is a very efficient and good scorer could easily be had for Curry’s expiring. Having Maggette as a 3rd or 4th option would be very effective

No way NO gives away a cheap talented player like him. If anything, they’ll want to shed their biggest contracts + picks.
I still think a smart move by DW would be to package EC and go after young players with upside + picks (pull a Moreyesque move with another franchise)

Mucha what you created right there is not a championship team but the worst defensve starting lineup in the league. Chandler, Gallo, Johnson, not defensive minded players at all. First, Bosh is goin to Miami. Second, why should we trade curry when we can wait a year and have a shot at Carmelo with the cap space. The worst thing would be to panic come summer time a waste max money on Johnson or Bosh. Third, either Gallo or chandler need to go to the bench. They play the same freaking position and Gallo cannot play PF I do not care if he was 8 feet tall he does not have the skill set to play PF and neither does Chandler.

Unless you are leaving room under the cap to cover the raises each free agent will sign there won’t be enough room to give out a max deal to Carmelo or if you don’t think max even a deal larger enough that he would consider

I kinda like this myself. Building a solid team that can run and play D, and shooting for Carmello later isn’t a bad idea. Carmello has tier one skills, and the mentality to handle whatever issues playing in NY throws at him. Knowing that Bosh needs another big man or a crunch time scorer makes him really a tier 1-b to me anyway… not really better than Boozer… just different. Good plan

I’m not saying they are all defense but you are wrong to dismiss Gallo and Chandler’s defensive ability. Neither is a porr defender at all. They are winning any DPOY awards but they are liabilities on the defensive end (a la Lee).

Curry’s contract is for a little over $11 mill, if that comes off the books that is not enough money for Carmelo, so you need to save a lot of cap space this summer in order to offer Melo enough and when I say alot of space you need to account for the raises each player will get the following year which will be millions.

“It’s not about making the team fight for a ring IMMEDIATELY, it’s about giving your top player a complete team”

Well if the Knicks need to be patient – which is also my POV – they could wait and 1. Trade Eddy Curry to get some pieces 2. Sign a valuable player with the MLE before the 2011-2012 season begins! With 3 additional players the roster is set in this scenario from my POV!

(You forget Tony Parker, he’s out until the playoffs)
That’s what I’m trying to explain.
Yeah, you can have your main player, but the team that surrounds them can’t just be scrubs. You gotta have an all around team that’s the perfect mix of talent and toughness, and that’s why I’ve proposed getting over here guys like Wallace and Camby and two big guys from the draft so they can learn to play with experienced tough guys on both ends of the court.
You can’t have a complete team by spending all your cash in 2 players, it makes you a team with a of talent and no depth, not to mention being one injury away of disaster.

Joe Johnson + Chris Bosh = 2 Stars

Danilo Gallinari + Wilson Chandler = 2 promising young players – both have already reached the 14 ppg plateau. I think it’s safe to say that either one of them will be a VERY GOOD player in a couple of years (probably an All-Star).

Eddy Curry’s contract + 2011 MLE = At least 3 valuable players IMO.

I don’t see what the problem is honestly.

I see DW trying to rid EC’s contract before the 2011 FAgency sensing the money problems many team’s have. What will Walsh be looking for remains to be seen.

I really think that it is Wade or Lebron that should get max deals on their own and thats it. Though I agree with Mucha that if Lebron is only coming if another player is coming then you give the player he wants that max deal because Lebron is obviously worth overpaying someone else, but in no other situation would I give out a 2nd max deal.

I really think the Knicks should buy as many 2nd round picks this year as they can. They are not guaranteed so they don’t count against the cap (as late 1st round picks still would) and we can hopefully strike oil (Budinger, Blair, Thornton among others).

We won’t be paying luxury tax this year so significant money will be saved and I think Dolan should spend it as such.

I agree, I see Curry as a trade chip next year, especially after seeing how many salary dumps occurred this year, we will be in a position to save money for other teams and possibly get a legit player

Have you seen Okafor’s contract??

I think Curry’s expiring contract is enough for Okafor and Collison IF NOT Okafor, Thornton and a future 1st round draft pick.

I’m all for building around one top guy, gives you room to make an all around team, maybe buy a 1st round pick and try to get a nice PG.
Having 15 mil free gives a ton of room to see what else is out there.
Now, the question that has been roaming in my mind is simple, are vets like Camby willing to take a paycut to play with Bosh, or would they think about it knowing there’s an LBJ on the team?

If you get Carmelo you can trade Camby, move Boozer to center and plug Gallo or Will in as a starter. Under normal circumstances it would leave us a a little light up front, but it would work for this system.

1. It’s a “SHOT” at Carmelo and he’s the only legitimate All-Star in the 2011 free-agent market. What are you going to do with all your capspace if he resigns with the Nuggets? You want to add depth – despite the fact that you the Knicks to add depth this summer already? Mike D’Antoni like to have an 8-man rotation + 1 valuable player if a starter gets injuried.

2. Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion played PF for Mike D’Antoni, I don’t see why Chandler couldn’t do it.

3. Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are pretty good defenders.

4. The Knicks can fill the roster with Eddy Curry’s huge expiring contract and the MLE in 2011.

Depth. That’s my problem.
Knowing that one injury’s gonna cripple you pretty much sucks. I’d love to have 2 stars in the team, I really would, I’m just thinking how those guys wouldn’t want to have 3 D-Leaguers, 2 2nd rounders, Bill Walker and a non existent EC to practice with, that’s all.
Sure, they’d have to wait till February to see what comes out of EC’s contract and then until the offseason to receive 2 draft players, 1 MLE. It just seems thin, that’s all.
While I have view into what the Knicks bench will be, I’d never argue against to max guys.
Though in the end it’ll depend on who those guys are. Because if Johnson’s one of those, I swear I’d take a serious look at Gay, who’d be cheaper and still has a long way to go.

Unless you are signing and trading for Melo you can’t afford to get him. The trade has to be simultaneous or before otherwise we wouldn’t have space

Maybe Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James won’t be willing to come here if the Knicks don’t want to sign a Joe Johnson or Amare Stoudemire this summer. I assume that’s why Donnie Walsh traded Jared Jeffries and 3 1st round draft picks – if not he’d have kept his draft picks as a back-up plan. It’s all about 2010 – the Knicks will have to sign 2 All-Stars this summer in my opinion.

The Knicks will have enough assets to fill the roster during/after the regular season.

Donnie Walsh can’t afford to be too patient because the Knicks can’t leave the FA market empty-handed. We have 0 draft picks left and maybe Carmelo Anthony’s just not willing to come here.

I have seen his contract, it’s ugly as hell. The only scenario they’d go for is the 2nd one imo

I missed a lot nots where i meant to “They are NOt winnning any DPOY awards but they are NOT liabilities on the defensive end”

Tommy,

If the Knicks wanted to trade David Lee for a 2010 draft pick, would they have to wait until 7/1/2010 when they are under the salary cap?

If I recall, when a team is under the cap, they don’t have to worry about trading contract for contract within the 125% matching salary ratio.

I guess what I am saying is, could we trade lee prior to the 2010 draft for the pick, or would the other team make the pick for us, with a pre-arranged sign and trade agreement?

Perhaps you could set me straight on this, although it probably gets even more complex due to Lee’s Bird rights and/or salary hold of $10,500,000

Like I said before, I see EC’s contract + a young draft kid traded for a good player with a bad contract + a couple of picks (to replace our 2011 and 2012 losses).
There’s a bunch of team’s with money issues, NO’s not the only one. There’s Utah, GS, just to give more examples.

Wait – if Melo gets injuried the Nuggets ain’t sh*t. The same goes for the Cavaliers and the Magic. No disrespect but injuries are not a relevant factor IMO even though you need depth.

Joe Johnson is a very good defensive player.

That would work, since If Melo is going to leave, they are going to want something for him beforehand, and he’ll probably agree to a sign and trade if it gets him max money and move him back east.

Yes if he tells them that he is leaving and wants to come here then it would work but that really is the only way we would get him short of saving a lot of space this summer

Well, weren’t the Lebron-less Cavs able to beat the Spurs? Just saying, depth is important, gives you alternatives once your main guy’s out, let’s you try different rotations to see which one clicks.
So if the Knicks do get Bosh and Johnson, and both of the get injured, that’s not relevant? Really? Because We’d have to put in the 2nd rounders and Bill Walker to replace them. That seems to me like a relevant factor.

I hope we would be able to get that much but at the same time, and maybe this is me being paranoid, but I feel like teams really don’t like helping the Knicks out, like we would be charged premiums compared to others teams (Jeffries trade). So maybe teams wouldn’t be willing to give up as much for an expiring from the Knicks then say the Bulls

I know there is no facts to supports this it is just a gut feeling I have

I think Bosh is a max player, just not max talent, if that makes sense. There’s a certain premium for front court players. If you live in a universe where Sam Dalembert and Erick Dampier can command 10-12 mil/year then Bosh is a max player. That’s just how it is.

Johnson on the other hand is NOT a max player, not at his age at least. I’d rather try to get Ginobili, Allen or even Rasual Butler or Raja Bell at a fraction of the price an use the rest of the cap to solidify the bench or grab a pick.

1. There’s no way to tell if Melo will opt out in 2011, and if the Knicks don’t have a considerably better record next season despite the upgrades D’antoni won’t be around. He’ll be in the hot seat, no one can deny that, and with him goes his 7 man rotation.

2. Agreed. Chandler, with this guy, can play the PF.

3. Agree as well, Gallo with a bit more lateral speed can become a great defender because he’s got great ball IQ.

4. If EC’s traded earlier for picks and a big contract, Walsh will have his exceptions to work with.

I agree. Johnson isn’t a max guy, but he’ll be looking for it, and he’ll likely receive it. This applies as well to Bosh, in his case I think it’s well deserved. In Johnson case, you can attribute it to market demands and teams with a lot of money to spend and not many options.

I understand your thoughts, and that’s why I’m still not fully decided. Thing is, results will be on demand next season, and your scenario should give those, but you never know.
Thing is, Walsh has to convince his top guys (whoever they are, if there are any) to be patient, and I’m not so sure many of them will want to be. I don’t see a guy like James staying put waiting for his team, since that’s what he’s been doinf in Cleveland.

Donnie will have to wait until July 11th or so (after the moritorium) to attempt a sign and trade with Lee.. And the S&T would have to be with his permission.. Not sure how a team could draft a player for Donnie in June without knowing that Lee would go tehre in the S&T

I don’t think it’s paranoia, it’s just that GM’s know this team’s situation. When you see a GM desperate to shed cap space, you’re gonna try and get as much out of him as you can, knowing that he’ll fold. DW promised cap, and he got it, he never explained what would have to be sacrificed to get. He just delivered.
Wlash may very well find himself on the other side of the table next year (see our EC’s contract conversation), and I really don’t see desperate GM’s trying to save money playing tough, not at the deadline at least.

Watching Scott O’Neil (MSG president) on CNBC..

Boy Dolan surrounds himself with complete morons. the guy looks like he should be loading trucks on the lower east side.. not that there’s anything wrong with that but i dont want that person running the garden..

Incidentally, he SAID Donnie got under the cap to sign TWO super stars..

Ill post a link when CNBC puts it up.

I completely agree regarding JJ… If he is your number 1, you’re not winning anything.

I completely disagree, however, regarding Bosh. It’s hard for big men in this league to make their marks by themselves, ESPECIALLY given how the game is played now and the way it is changing. No big man is going to come in and be able to lead a team to the top; no big guy can have the ball in his hands and actually make the plays at the end of the game… you need a guard(ish) to do that, no matter who your big men are. Ever good big man absolutely needs a good-to-great perimeter player, while the vice-versa may not be entirely true. Everything i see from Bosh reminds me of KG as he was getting ready to bolt Minnesota… He’s a solid 25 and 12 guy, but is actually a big-man, both on defense and in the offensive post… (david lee is neither of these.). Bosh stands with gasol, IMO, as the top two complete big men in the league, and gasol just got 20 per. Granted, that was an extension, and bosh alone would never cut it, but bosh as part of a duo with some sort of great perimeter player would be worth whatever he asked.

The Cavs beat the Spurs sans Tony Parker.

Of course injuries would significantly hurt the Knicks but GM’s don’t build teams assuming that the star players are going to get hurt.

Good discussion with you anyways.

At least the Knicks will only get better with Gallinari and Chandler. I don’t think LeBron’s a patient person but maybe the Cavs are hitting the ceiling this season.

As always, interesting back and forth.

Maybe. The Cavs are mixing it up in terms of age. Chandler and Gallo will keep growing, and we really gotta hope whatever DW does at the draft pays out, whether he uses his 2nd rounders or uses them for a 1st rounder, or any sort of move. I do think the 3 young players next year really need someone to be there and help them along in their respecive developments. Of course, a guy like LBJ would be great, but mainly a leader, you know? I just don’t see that from D’antoni, and at their age, they need it.

“Granted, that was an extension, and bosh alone would never cut it, but bosh as part of a duo with some sort of great perimeter player WOULD BE WORTH WHATEVER HE ASKED”

Including Joe Johnson at $15 million in my opinion. The Knicks can’t build around Joe Johnson but if the Knicks sign (or want to sign) a 1st tier FA like Chris Bosh I think they’ll have to overpay another FA.

The only way we’d strike oil, if your proposal happens (which isn’t a bad strategy imho) is if they actually got to play. Did you see how many minutes Hill got before leaving? Or the fact that, maybe, TD will start getting burn now that the season is more than lost?
D’antoni’s gonna be burning in his hot seat next season, and he’s gonna wanna play the best he’s got, he’s not really high both on bench depth and rookies, specially if they aren’t lottery picks.
I do understand your iniciative, since if DW goes for 2 max money will be an issue come the time to build a team, so if that happens, I’m all for those 2nd rounders.
If there’s one thing that Dolan doesn’t mind doing in the future, that’s paying luxury tax. This past decade has been a clear cut demonstration of that.

Larry “Next Town” Brown is at it again.

How many more teams will let this guy fleece them?

You make a valid point in regards to their playing time, and it clearly would be an issue given D’Antoni’s history but if the 2 max players happens it really would be the best way to get depth outside of veterans wanting to come and sign for the minimum.

I guess the one positive thing would be that the young guys would be playing with top tier players, and they’d learn a hell of a lot, just from practicing. In the end, it all depends on who the players are.

Diaw and Marion are taller than Chandler, Ill Will is only bout 6’6 maybe even 6’5, when he stands next to Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, LeBron they clearly tower over him. I dont know why they keep saying he is 6’8 but great block vs Josh Smith game saver!!

Extremely interesting article in the plain dealer by Windhorst.

“LeBron James’ ankle is fine. You should have seen him dash across the room to see the finish of the Knicks-Hawks game in the locker room after the game. … In this game of analyzing and then spinning everything LeBron within the free agency prism — ‘What? He ordered a vodka tonic? Does that mean the Nets are still in the game?’ — I’m sure that will get all whipped into something. I probably shouldn’t even be writing it because I’ll be getting calls from New York radio stations for ‘my take’ tomorrow. ”

Again, doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. As Windhorst goes on to say, Lebron loves to watch NBA games and he gets excited about any close games. Still interesting nonetheless. I would love to see the NY media overreact to that lol.

It may be hard trying to attract stars if you don’t have a roster..especially ones that want to win!

Bu hey, we’ll let your boy Donnie figure out the chicken or egg dilemma! He better not come back with a bucket of Popeyes starting next season and try to see that to us.

Very interesting debate as to whether 2 close to max contracts or 1 close to max contract is the right way to go. I still believe both JJ and Bosh are worth max contracts, I wonder whether it would be better to just spend all our money on getting those 2 or going for 1 and then getting solid veterans around them. Really interesting question.

And count Omri Casspi as yet another to hit the rookie wall. Damn has he been struggling lately. I say this in defense of Gallo, who in my opinion has been very unfairly diminished by people on here.

Dolan seems to have knack for always wanting to be the smartest dude in the room so he helps that with rigging the scale.

We saw hoe Lattrell rattled his cage bu just leaving during one of his presentations. Having money and power does not mean you’re very self confident. I imagine Sr. Charles Dolan probably mumble to himself “Got d-a-m-n Jr., I’m not giving ya anything else to f-u-c-k up but the Knicks and Rangers.”

GALLO AND CHANDLER are good defenders hahahhaa for thee knicks you mean. The only defesive player on that team is douglas. Chandler is not a PF get over it dont believe the hype Boris is 6″10 chandler is 6″5 NOT 6″8. Gallo can hit threes that is it. Its really not how many points you score but how you score them. Gallo scores on threes not by getting to the line or creatng his own shots which are way more effective methods of scoring because it puts pressure on the other team by creating foul trouble.

There are some players in this league that is a slight cusp below the Players Tommy mentioned that can be a difference for a team.

- Devon Williams
- CP3
- Kevin Durant
- Tony Parker
- Nash (offensive end)

We need a true pt guard like one from the above list and we need a real center.

*sell* My dog is doing the typing again!

Very, very good, Jayman. I think Gay will command too much, so if you can replace him with Felton and Korver/Miller combined *at the same price*, I think it’s a win. I know Miller is a Tellem/Wasserman client, as is Jermaine O’Neal. O’Neal’s an option if Camby’s too much and Donnie wants to save max for Melo (which I would love).

Felton, Miller, Gallo, Boozer, O’Neal with Wil, Walker, TD, Tim Thomas, etc., and Melo in ’11. Awesome. I like this very much.

You’re judging a 21-22 year old kid who’s basically playing his first season? Nice. You don’t even where his game’s going you’re explaining how it’ll be impossible for him to be a PF.
A true visionary.

If you guys hate Harrington you will absolutely loathe Maggette.

“despite the fact that Mike Bibby sucks on both ends of the court.”

A little excessive no. He isn’t even close to what he used to be but you make him sound like Duhon.

Forgot Mac if he’s in good shape next year, too.

(And don’t sleep on Jordan Farmar at the point or a backup next year, either, everyone. Another Tellem guy. http://hoopshype.com/agents/arn_tellem.htm )

Your plan B would be what we HAVE to do if LBJ, Wade or Bosh do not come.

However, I disagree with Camby being a pivitol piece. The plan B team you outlined is not winning a championship in 2010-2011 and a guy like Camby is at the end of his career. If we are going with your plan B it should be for young guys you can build around, not Camby.

haha. I assumed that was a joke about Maggette. That guy gives Chucketts a run for his money.

But Mucha NO just traded for Okafur’s contract.

“Agree as well, Gallo with a bit more lateral speed can become a great defender because he’s got great ball IQ.”

I’ll bet you $30 right now Gallo never becomes a “great defender”.

And how does some one develop “lateral speed” if they don’t have it already?

“Incidentally, he SAID Donnie got under the cap to sign TWO super stars.. ”

I don’t see how those moves make sense any other way.

IF IF IF we get LBJ then a super PG is not a priority
some big men who can play and board are.

I agree that Joe Johnson does not take anyone to the promised land,
he’s an excellent complimentary player but not a dominator
nor a leader.

If the NETS were to add Johnson and say Boozer or Bosh
plus their Lotto pick, they would likely contend immediately.

oh yeah, they need a freaking coach too

It’s called “hitting the gym”, it’s not rocket science or anything. Speed is just as easy to gain as strength.
Maybe I overdid it with the “great defender” line, but the guy definitely is a better defensive player than he’s given credit for.

just because D Antoni made the mistake or had the misfortune of using Daiw and Marion as PFs is no reason to cite undersized
finess players as solutions at PF…NATE was a better PF than Gallo
is right now.

So do we!!

I used to run track so I hear what you are saying about developing speed. But “lateral speed”? I didn’t even mean it to be funny I just never heard of anyone gaining lateral speed.

Imo, that lineup would more of a plan C. I’m just thinking that Boozer, Gay and Camby/O’neal would be within his plan B range, (but this would really depend on how much money would Gay and Boozer command, in Gay’s case it’ll all depend on how many teams line up for him and how much money can Memphis put up).
I’m not so high on Felton for the mere fact that he’ll really be asking for a bunch of money, and he’s someone you don’t wanna overpay.
I see big men as a main priority for next season, so DW should take a long hard look, should he find himself in plan B or C, at guys like Boozer, O’Neal, Wallace, Haywood (although I don’t see him leaving Dallas), and some defensive minded players like Bell, Manu, etc.
If the coach isn’t looking to preach defense, at least have some players that will bring it anyways.

WADE AN JAMES ARE THE ONLY 2 MAX PLAYERS

the others are secondary players
bosh
joe j
amare
loozer
etc
secondary players that will most likely recieve max

i say if the knicks can’t sign wade or lbj
sign 3 4 good players with that money

also DURANT will be the best player in the league in 2 3 season

lol nobody sucks like Chris Duhon.

A little excessive I agree – you’re right. A little drama everynow and then doesn’t hurt though lol.

Nets don’t have the cash for two max players.

Offensively yes, but he won’t be a better all around player than Lebron. Doesn’t have his ball handling/passing ability and although he is an athletic freak as well, Lebron is like the next stage of evolution type of athlete. I think when Naismith invented basketball there was no was he could foresee a guy Lebron

I’d give the nod to LeBron too. If he does then what he does not at 270 lbs., he’ll be the most unstoppable man since Wilt. But Durant and Carmelo will be right there with him. Carmelo isn’t finished developing yet either, and Durant is a different kind of freak… like a hybrid George Gervin/Reggie Miller

But as to you other point, I’m with getting 3-4 good players and waiting for more trade opportunities to open up.

See what happens after sucking so long!! We are use to making superstars out of really good players and settling for mediocrity!! Joe Joe is not a max guy he is a really good player but not a superstar. Be honest when you think superstar does he even come to mind?? If not then why would you even think of paying him like one?

The way to go is CP3!! No way in hell is a team like N.O that is bleeding money is going to give up a cheap young stud PG they need to shed payroll & trading the cheap good players is not how u do that. Rookie stud PG rookie stud SG they have a really good young back court now is the perfect time to get CP3!! EC and yea gallo & or chandler would be the price and well worth it because you get a superstar and the best PG in the game as well as a player that any other superstar in the game would love to play with!!

After that you do a sign and trade for whatever team wants Lee and fill a few spots that way (maybe a rudy fernadez & Pendergraph)) and then offer LBJ that max money!! If he passes oh well to hell with emm we still in good shape with a much better team and money for Mello or Durant!

NO MORE OVER PAID MEDIOCRITY FELLOW KNICK FANS DEMAND BETTER!

Unfortunately, although we all pretend otherwise, about 75% of the FA deals are already done, or being worked on right now. Agents, owners, GMs, management companies, advisors, and above all, Worldwide Wes, have verbal deals done long before July 1. It’s just frustrating that we can’t find out until July 1.

Possibly trade curry for some major role players? Not sure who

Does Dwight know something about Lebron to the NY Knicks that we dont? lol
Check this out: http://twitvid.com/B1642

If u are a max player u don’t need some one next to u to pick slack ie bosh with a camby like player. If I’m giving the max u better be the guy and only need role player around him

I agree which is why it is even more of a great move 2 go all out for CP3 because he is already locked in to his contract! The only negotshation is with the other team. And c’mon what kind of mega boom would CP3 in NYC make!

Ask tennis players what their training main focus is. Soccer as well.

But they got a pretty god roster (all around) plus they got another top lottery young cheap guy coming their way.
Cap wise, yeah the Knicks take the trophy. But roster wise? We get our asses handed to us. Nice young, cheap core (except for Harris, buy hey, it’s the price to pay for a good PG)

One thing that we are forgetting is that, the way our contracts are structured, this isn’t our “one shot”. None of our guys are due for huge extensions, no one’s salary takes a huge jump in 2011, and we get Curry off the book for another 10 mil. The Magic HAD to overpay for Rashard because they knew they were going to have to pay Jameer Nelson and Dwight Howard, so that cap space was only going to be there for one year.

Same thing with the Blazers, who HAD to sign Andre Miller just as an asset because with all there extensions, the cap space wasnt going to be there this year.

We dont HAVE to do anything unless Donnie feels pressured. I understand that Donnie made us sit through two years and it should be 2010 or bust, but if we dont get Lebron, the smart thing to do would be sign a few smart contracts, maybe a Rudy Gay or someone, and then wait for 2011 or a trade that gets us a young stud for taking on cap space.

I just wouldn’t overpay Bosh and Joe Johnson because we HAVE to. I rather sign just Bosh, hold onto my space with a bunch of one year deals, and then work out my options. We still have that 2011 pick, so we could be going into 2011 with: 1 level B FA from 2010 class, gallo chandler douglas, 2011 1st round draft pick, and then enough space to sign another prominent free agent depending on how much we spend on that level B free agent.

Plyometrics, HIIT, etc.

Gallo hasn’t been guarding the 4 much, and I think he should be. His post defense is greatly improving. I’m not sure what game tape you guys are watching.

Nah LBJ, Wade, Howard and Paul will still be in their prime and in the league in 2 to 3 seasons.

He will be right up there though.

Cool that makes sense. I guess football players have to work on it too.

Ehhh.. I’m just not sold on Joe johnson… he does well in Atlanta surrounded by allstar caliber talent at almost every position, but i don’t want him running our team. I’d rather have Mcgrady for less, (assuming he continues to improve his health). I’d even rather give gay a max (which for him is only around 10-12 mil i believe?) than to pay Joe Johnson 15… i don’t know i have just always thought he was over-rated.

I don’t know what is going on with the Nets. They need some strong veteran leadership over there. That team fell apart when Kidd and Jeferson left.

They were deplorable this year largely because of the Carter trade.

They can’t use their money on a Lee, Gaye or Boozer. They need a guy like LBJ, Wade or Bosh who can carry a team on his back and demand more from his teamates. I actually think Amare can be that kind of guy but that is pure speculation on my part.

LIKE I SAID – What if Chris Bosh doesn’t want to sign here if the Knicks are not willing to give Joe Johnson the amount of money he’s asking for?

Donnie Walsh didn’t trade the back-up plan (Jordan Hill and 2 1st round draft picks) just to sit on his money. The Tracy McGrady deal is a strong indication that the Knicks will have to spend THIS YEAR.

JJ will be the next Alan Houston if we sign him to a max or near max deal. A complete panic move that will haunt the Knicks for years. He is not that good and he is getting worse from now on. really no upside to that deal at all.

Totally. You need a pro trainer working with you 24/7, specially in Gallo’s case. Besides, the kid needs to gain some size as well.

Chris Bosh specifically stated in the media that with all the talks of him teaming up with another great player he would not mind at all coming to a team to be the #1 guy without a sidekick.

But besides that, because talk means nothing, say hypothetically Bosh says “I wont sign unless you also give this 30 year old shooting guard max money too”, I would laugh in his face. Honestly.

Make whatever you want of it, all these moves are for LEBRON. Not Bosh, not Wade, not Joe Johnson. LEBRON. If LEBRON comes here, he can choose his teammates. Chris Bosh as a max player is debatable – and now he’s going to essentially become even more than a max player because we have to pay Joe Johnson above market value? I’d say thanks, but no thanks.

I’ve been patient for Lebron. If we dont get him, I can be patient another year. I know cap space is good. I know that guys right now who you wouldn’t think would be available, become available for nothing if you are willing to eat the dollars. See: Kevin Martin. “Inside Sources” from ESPN said, literally, the day before the trade “there is no way Kevin Martin leaves Sacramento”. Two days later he’s gone.

What if Carmelo says he’s leaving Denver at the end of the season? What if the Hornets sell Chris Paul to the highest bidder? What if Kobe opts out? What if Durant gets sick of OKC? What if the Warriors wake up one day and decide they hate Stephen Curry? There are a thousand what-ifs in the NBA, especially when it comes to this offseason.

I just think that in order to be successful, you buy low, sell high, take advantage of opportunities you find and not panic when one is put in front of your face. The difference: Taking Sprewell for nothing when the Warriors wanted him out, between resigning Allan Houston because we felt we owed it to him.

I was critical of this move because I felt we were giving up a lot – just for an OPPORTUNITY – which could go either way. But now that we are here and we cant change the past, I hope we dont get suckered in by thinking we need to spend it all this year when we dont. With tons of cap room, we can snatch up draft picks teams dont need, players that have fallen out of favor or are perceived to be overpayed. We can find the people we WANT and go for them, not concede to the demands of whoevers available.

I think they’ll be looking at a SF or a PF. Everyone wants a sit down with James, but their no 2 option, imo, should be Bosh.

somebody here suggested we trade for Okafur.
I’m just wondering if that poster is really Isaiah thomas?
Oka looks like the 2nd coming of David Robinson,
too bad he’s injury prone, has no natural hoops instincts (nose for the ball)
and has a horrid contract….sounds like Zeke’s perfect knick,

not mine…..once again I’d say Nate Robinson would be a more efficient center
than Oka…and I’m not suggesting we sign Nate..just sayin

How about this 2010 plan?

A. Trade Eddy’s expiring 10.5 mil contract for Warrior’s Monta Ellis 11 mil?
Knicks get an explosive, athletic point guard and the warriors get cap relief. Warriors want to hand the Keys to Steph Curry anyway. This move would benefit them alot.

B. Sign and Trade David Lee for Chris Bosh.

C. Sign Lebron James.
D. Sign Camby to two year 3 mil deal.

D. Since you have Bird Rights to players, you are allowed to go over the cap to resign your own players.
Sign Mcgrady to a one year 2 million deal.
Sign Rodriguez to his qualifying offer.
Sign Walker to his qualifying offer.

2010 Knicks lineup!

Monta Ellis (Trade from Eddy Curry)
Tracy McGrady (Bird Rights)
Lebron James (16.5 MAX)
Chris Bosh (16.5 MAX)
Marcus Camby (2 YR 3 MIL)

Bench:
Wilson Chandler
Danilo Gallinari
Toney Douglas
Billy Walker
Draft Pick?
Draft Pick?

Too bad GM’s can’t read minds to foresee all these thing, but it would be great for business.
I really doubt Durant gets tired of OKC since he already asked for an extension, I do see the possibility of NO shedding a big contract, but since they have so many I can’t see who they’ll be willing to let go. Kobe leaving LA? I’m always open to distant chances like those, but it seems extremely unlikely.
Melo? That’s another issue altogether.
Anyway, since GM don’t have these magic 8 balls to what’ll happen, they have to play the market the best way to see fit for their teams, hence the need to acquire top guys in the Knicks case, and later use smartly EC’s contract.

Glad to see a lot of you guys understand that Joe Joe would be silly for us. Bosh while a very good player is Robin not Batman! We need bonified stars not wing men, CP3 & LBJ!! get it done donnie.

The way the cap works, if I interpreted Larry Coons column correctly, is that we need to round out the roster FIRST, THEN go after our stars. It’s about the timing of when you renounce everybody and how you work your sign and trades. I think the first thing we have to do is get through the draft. See who gets that 1st pick and who picks John Wall. I believe most of the teams that will have a good shot at Wall are already set at PG, so we need to see what it will take to pry one of them away. I would also try and make a press on Pritchard for Bayless. The kid is too good to sit on the bench, and at some point, he’s not going to be happy, and he’s gonna want to be the man.

I think this is the first time I agreed with everything Tommy Dee had to say. WOW, thats scary. If he wasn’t so fascinated with the coach, we could be brothers. Hmmmmm
DUMPd’antoniNdaHudson.com

Why would anyone trade Monte Ellis for Eddie Curry?
Please tell me!
Maybe we could trade Bender for Kobe too.

I can definitely go along with that. If we can’t get what we want (Lebron/Wade + Bosh/Johnson for less than max), then I would co-sign patience and strengthening the core. This is for the long term guys, we don’t want to blow this opportunity.

I only said the “what ifs” to show just how absurd to notion of “what if Chris Bosh says he’ll sign only if we pay Joe Johnson the max” was, for exactly what you said – GMs, fans, none of us can read minds, we dont know whats going to happen July 1st 2010, February 11 2011, or July 1st 2011. All we can do, and hope our GM does, is make smart decisions.

We are heading towards a lockout where one of the main sticking points is the goal to eliminate this situation – where a team may overpay a 30 year old Joe Johnson, and then be stuck with him killing your team for 5 years. In two years, a max contract is going to be like 3 guaranteed years max. Why be the poster child for this? When ESPN is covering the lockout, I dont want to be the team that they reference when talking about cap killing max contracts.

A few problems:

1.) Toronto isn’t sign and trading Chris Bosh for David Lee and we’d need to fuck with contracts to make it work anyway because Lee isn’t getting the max from Toronto. It just doesnt make any sense, Bosh would have to want to come here, and if he did, we might as well just sign him straight up. He’s not worth a “super-max”, which is what he’d sign in a sign and trade. He’d get an extra year and a bump in cash, he’d make more than Lebron.

2.) If we sign Lebron, frankly, none of the rest matters. Everything will fall into place. Everyone wants to play with Lebron, we’ll have Lebron, 15 mil in cap space, and a bunch of players who would want to come here on the cheap.

3.) In order to sign the two Max FAs, we’d need to renounce everyone’s bird rights, so if we did sign them, they would have to come back on veteran mins, which they probably would to play on a great team.

Interesting point…It’s gonna make me puke to say this, but IF Utah were to win the John Wall sweepstakes with our pick….(hold on, let me grab my bucket), do you think they move D-Will?

Donnie Walsh take note: With all the arguing over the 2010 plan and the coaching decisions, New Yorkers seem to agree on one thing: Don’t sign Joe Johnson to the max.

conversation with my dad today:

me: Hey dad, did you hear the Knicks have sold 1800 season tickets already?
him: Yeah, I mean, we’re gonna have two good players next year, people are going to buy tickets….but you know one of them is going to be Joe Johnson, so why bother?

You do drills. You work on lateral quickness and agility. He does need to work on his leg strength as well. But Gallo is definitely a better defender than people give him credit for.

Wait for 2011?

Reality check – Carmelo Anthony’s the only legitimate All-Star on the free agent market.

And Kevin Durant will be a RFA – the Thunder will match any offer.

Chris Bosh is an All-NBA player and Joe Johnson is a 4-time All-Star. If the Knicks can get both of them they should do it and ruuuuuun… It’s all about 2010 PERIOD.

1. The Knicks don’t have enough capspace for Bosh, James and Camby – forget about it. They’ll never have enough capspace to add McGrady either.

2. Eddy Curry for a 25 ppg player? Maybe with Wilson Chandler and a 2057 1st round draft pick.

@Rocky- The Warriors want financial relief and the fact that they are more in love with Steph Curry is a big factor. Plus Warriors get a cheap big man trying to save his career. Dont act like that trade can’t happen. Deals like this do go down. Ex. Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett to Boston for miscellaneous players. I’ll take a beat up Eddy Curry over a Kwame Brown anyday.

@JustinCharles- You’re right about renouncing they’re rights, I forgot about that part. As far as Bosh goes, I’m almost 100% sure Toronto is not gonna let him walk for nothing. So you throw in Wilson Chandler with D. Lee and cash to make it work. Bron Bron is not coming by himself either, so best believe Lebron’s gonna sit and watch what the the Knicks do for the first two weeks of Free agency. Thats why I say make a deal for Bosh. Dont forget as well, that alot of teams dont want to see the Knicks succeed, so I can see alot of teams trying to sign and trade there players to other teams so the Knicks will come up empty handed. Gotta use your best assets for one of those elite’s this summer.

The warriors are a more stranger organization than the Knicks, so thats why I wouldnt put it pass them to go for a deal like that. But you guys are entitled to your opinions, but If it happens, you know where you saw it first…lol.

I don’t know. Williams is a great PG and it’s close to being right up there with Paul. He’s definitely someone you want teaching Wall the ropes. His contract isn’t the prettiest (has a player option in 2012 for 17 mil) and if by any chance Utah were to shed him, it would take EC+ Chandler to get the job done.
I really don’t see it, but in this legue, many surprising things go down at the deadline.
No many things surprise me anymore.

I just CAN’T believe some fans don’t want to see the Knicks sign Chris Bosh and Joe Johnson. The Knicks are a 22-win team and Knicks fans to want to see a 5-time NBA All-Star and a 4-time NBA All-Star play for the Knicks??? PATHETIC.

Reality check : The Knicks can’t wait because they can’t rebuild through the draft and Carmelo Anthony will be the only legitimate All-Star on the 2011 free agent market. It’s ALL about 2010.

You must have a second favorite team like blackwood and the Lakers lol – no shots!

Good point – Boris Yeltsine ain’t dead!

*don’t want

Mucha, I have to say you have convinced me that those 2 might be our best option. I definitely think Bosh is option 3 after LBJ and Wade. Im not sure we will be able to get Rudy Gay for 9 million a year even if we tried, he’s an rfa and Memphis will probably match anything under 10 million, and anything over would be overpaying him in my opinion. I like that plan. From now on thats my new plan a. We can then either let Eddy’s contract expire and wait on Carmelo, or trade him in season for some solid role players instead or maybe even another star.

aint that pathetic. JJ is streaky and just not that good in end of game situations. He wont get better either, he will get worse though. why give him a long term big contract that will stifle future moves? There are players with more upside and smaller contracts we can get through trades and FA in the next two years. Why get rid of Jamal just to get JJ for more two years later??

Bosh is a different story, solid guy offensively and defensively speaking. I wouldn’t pass up on him. But we can do better than jj…

this is true

all K.d needs to learn is to pass the ball an he could be better than lebron

I’m not a Joe Johnson fan even though he’s a very good player. I’ll be mad if the Knicks can’t get better than Joe Johnson alone.

But if the Knicks sign Chris Bosh – assuming that Wade and James aren’t available of course – then he’ll probably ask for more than Chandler, Gallinari and 1 year of relative mediocrity.

The Knicks would probably have to choose between Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson. Who’s a better fit? I think JJ brings leadership (even though he’s not a great leader) and playoff experience to the table. He has the ability to play with the ball in his hands, he doesn’t rely on his athleticism to be effective (durable player?) and he’s a pure shooting guard. I think he’s a better fit but it’s debatable.

What I can’t understand is Knicks fans advocating another year of patience – I hope the Knicks didn’t trade Jordan Hill and another first round draft pick (not to mention the right to switch picks in 2011) for nothing but that’s just me.

Mucha: i still think Bosh + mcgrady + whatever that saves us > Bosh plus joe johnson… especially when you’re talking about giving joe johnson 15 mil.

you could sign mcgrady, ty thomas, pick up bill walkers option, and sign chris bosh, (just as an example), and have more money left over for 11 and 12…

Plus, that team is better than just bosh and joe johnson.

Huge compliment.

I disagree.

McGrady + Tyrus Thomas + Bill Walker together are not better than Joe Johnson alone in my opinion. The team would be deeper but one star is more valuable than “atomized” talent because Joe Johnson draws attention and he would create opportunities for Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler. Do you think Tyrus Thomas (considering that McGrady hasn’t been able to do that) would seriously make his teammates better?

I think the Knicks need to build a very strong starting line-up – it is mandatory in my opinion – and then fill the roster with some nice pieces. Role players are not hard to find – stars are.

I mean to me 2010 = Lebron. Im into putting all my eggs into the Lebron basket.

I’m not willing to settle for mediocrity. I’m not overpaying someone just for the sake of doing something. I just don’t understand why you’re making Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh a tag team. Why can’t we sign Bosh, the big man entering his prime, to the max, without signing Joe Johnson, a dime a dozen 30 year old shooting guard? Why can’t we sign Gay for 10 million, or why can’t we say: Hey, Chris Bosh, come to New York, you can be the man, and we’re going to put a great team around you. We have some talented young guys, and we’re gonna have a ton of cap space next year, so maybe Carmelo will want to play with you. Or, if you want, you can have your pick at the trade deadline of players teams would love to drop on our hands.

Your thinking too closed minded Mucha. I know it seems like the 2010 summer is the end all be all and it should be, but if we don’t get Lebron, the SMART thing to do would be to wait it out. The cap space isn’t going anywhere, its just going to get bigger when we dump Curry. We can make lopsided trades, the economy is still a mess, teams will be willing to dump good players just to save money. We’ll have our pick.

Just remember, when Joe Johnson was entering his prime, D’Antoni signed and traded him without even really getting into negotiations. Joe Johnson wanted to be the man and get payed like it, and D’Antoni liked his team based basketball. I just don’t see why now, at age 30, we are thinking of signing him to a max deal. The guy is not a max player. He’s just not. I’ll gladly take Bosh, I’d take Gay too, but not Johnson. I’m just not into paying him 20+ million when he’s 35 and is known as Joe Johnson’s expiring contract.

I hear you. I’m so sick of waiting all these years. The only thing I’m more afraid than another year of wait is a trigger move done out of desperation, which will lead to more years of futility…

Bosh+Johnson would make this team a contender to go to the conference finals, but I believe that would be the end of the trip. But once we have committed to both of these players, we wont have many options for years to come. That’s all I’m saying. But, yes I get your point that one star wont sign just with the promise of trying to upgrade the year after. it is a dilemma…

comment was @ mucha..

can we define “star”? I’m with Tommy on this one. LBJ, Wade are the two bona fide stars, game changers, max players worth building a franchise around. Bosh is second tier and in my opinion JJ is third tier. So yes, let’s get stars and then fill the roster with players like JJ….

yeah boneheaded trades do happen jason but not this time.
Monte for Eddie is a sugarcoated fantasy eaten only by the delusional knick fan, not a wise one.

Exactly, Bosh + Joe Johnson and no flexability is not a consistant world title. I rather take Bosh, make him my Duncan, and then try to find players that make sense around him. Not just sign the first available decent shooting guard to a max player.

I just disagree with the “one star wont sign here without a sidekick” package. I get that it makes sense to get cap space for Lebron, but cap space is cap space. Players are not stupid, they know how the league works. Bosh has said publicly he wants to goto a team and be the man. I wish I could find the comment. But anyway, I just can totally see us Bosh jumping on NY the first second of free agency. Its like, hey, you’ve been living in CANADA for the past 5 years, how would u like to come to the BIGGEST CITY IN THE WORLD. Oh, and we have tons of cap space so we can pick up whoever we want so, yeah.

Lmao Mucha…..As a fan seeing the mediocre high end guys get paid by the knicks I think learning from our own mistakes is key! Joe Joe is Al Houston 2.0 a real good player but not worth that money! Bosh is a really good player & I would love for him to be on the team but not for max money unless he is along LBJ but not on his own. So as you guys know I cant stand almost everything donnie has done but since it’s done I am just saying swing for the fences dont just bunt! Can any real knick fan say that giving gallo & or chandler along with EC contract for CP3 is something you would not want? You would rather over pay for Joe Joe?? thats crazy I say go for it all!!
Sign & Trade Lee for say an Unhappy Rudy Fernadez & Pendergraph & then put that max money on the table for LBJ and we are off and running for real contending for the top not middle of the pack!!

FYI Mucha I am a Kobe fan (how can you not be a fan of the player of the decade!!) lol get it right! lol

Rudy Gay is like Harrngton, a ball hog.

Johnson and Bosh along with Gallo, TD and Chandler would easily make us a 3rd seed at least.

With JJ we wouldn’t even need a PG

“Your thinking too closed minded Mucha. I know it seems like the 2010 summer is the end all be all and it should be, but if we don’t get Lebron, the SMART thing to do would be to wait it out. The cap space isn’t going anywhere, its just going to get bigger when we dump Curry. We can make lopsided trades, the economy is still a mess, teams will be willing to dump good players just to save money. We’ll have our pick”

The smart thing to do would be to “wait it out”? We won’t have many trade assets to make something happen (Wilson Chandler who’ll be a RFA? Danilo Gallinari who’s Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni’s protege? Eddy Curry?) and the 2011 free agent class is not very interesting talent-wise.

We KNOW that we’ll have the opportunity to aquire All-Star talent for nothing this summer. But we DON’T know what’s going to happen in 2011 – which means that the smart thing to do is to aquire the most talented players available on the market and see what you do with your assets afterwards IMO.

Can we be honest here for a moment…while a lot of what we exchange here is speculation I think anybody on here who is honest knows Wade is not an option!! Wade is not an option repeat after me guys Wade is not an option there has never even been a whisper that we are a consideration for wade and any of us who have been watching know its south beach or chi town for wade!! That being said the rest of the guys are viable “what if” candidates!! Now I return you to your regularly scheduled blogging!! lol

yep. Think about it: Bosh has been freezing up there, paying taxes, dealing with customs, what not He wants out! I read too that he wants to be the Man and let’s see… who needs a Man? yes, that would be us in this little town called New York.

But.. can he be the Man? I think not. Not by himself.. anyway. Too injury prone first of all, you gotta play him fewer minutes and if he gets double-teamed his effectiveness drops dramatically. So he needs either a deadly shooter to kick the ball to or a deadly slasher/pick & roll player to complement him. Is JJ a deadly shooter? me thinks not, not anymore. Frankly with Bosh as the first gun I would look for a really good PG….

lol no problem I love Kobe Bryant too (no homo).

I’m not a Joe Johnson fan but he’s an All-Star – great shooter, great ball-handler, great passer, strong body… I think he will be more durable than Allan Houston because he’s really strong, even though you’re not going anywhere if he’s the alpha dog…

I think Chris Bosh can’t win if he’s the only All-Star on your team. But with Joe Johnson and Gallinari’s development I think he could lead a team to the NBA Finals/Conference Finals.

Isn’t Gallinari a pretty good shooter? Isn’t Wilson Chandler a pretty good slasher?

another question I have for some of you guys is why is it you guys thing a PG is really not important or that it is easily replaced?? Why did we beat the hawks last night besides the lack of defense it was a lack of ball movement and floor generalship!

A PG is not like a front court guy just interchangeable it is a key position. You cant just say we dont need a real QB if we have a great RB lol it just sounds crazy!!

third seed in the east maybe. And then what? 6 years second round exits. super…

if you have a player of the caliber of Wade, LBron or Kobe you are ok with a mediocre PG. Wade and Kobe won titles with mediocre PG’s. For all other teams, you better have a good PG…

and yes, Wade couldn’t care less about NY. he surely is not coming

pretty good aint deadly. Seriously do you think this team would go to the finals consistently??

fill in
jj/chandler
Gallo
Bosh
fill in

I think people are confusing “superstar” with someone who receives a “max contract”. The market is the market. Since it’s not a free market (salary cap, salaries that can only go so high, etc.), there is no real organic correlation between salary and player value at the top of the wage scale. Just because Lebron can only make X amount, does not mean that someone who is not as good should not make the same amount. That would only be the case in a completely free market, where Lebron wuld be able to command $40 million per year.

(Mind you, I’m not advocating a free market — I think the salary cap and salary limits are good ideas.)

good point. But if you are a team that is maxed out with LeBron, you have flexibility with the other parts until things click. If you are maxed out with JJ you are f*’d. So, if I’m the owner of a team and I cannot get Bron or Wade I may not want to shackle my team for years with a 30 year old shooter who has already seen his best days..

lol. While I pretty much agree, its impossible to write anything off now. Lets say Wade gets really ambitious and wants a chance to surpass Lebron in marketing, maybe he thinks NY gives him that opportunity. Plus, the guy can’t be happy in Miami with the crap team he has been stuck with this year. While I pretty much agree that it is probably between Miami and his hometown Chicago, there is still a chance he wants to go to NY. A very small chance granted. But to quote the great Kevin Garnett, “ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!” lol that was the moment I lost all respect for him.

I just much rather have:

Douglas
Chandler
Gallo
Bosh
Camby
——-
filler

say we give Camby 4 mil, we still have like another 12 mil to either shell out 1 year deals to youngsters or vets, or acquire a big piece through a trade (we can take back 12 million in contracts without giving up any players, allowing lopsided trades). And then there’s also Curry’s contract. Whose available? Do you trade his expiring for another asset or let it expire and sign another FA in ’11?

There are just a lot of options with that move. If we sign Bosh + JJ, yes our team in the short run gets a little better (but not title better), but then we are the team we have, plus bosh and JJ, plus whatever we can get for Currys expiring for the next 5 years and thats it.

If we dont get Lebron, I rather sign Bosh, and surround him with short term deals and players who can run the floor and want to play smart and win. I wouldnt just throw it all away on Joe Johnson’s expiring contract.

Gallinari’s only 21 years old – he will be a DEADLY shooter in a couple of years if he isn’t already.

I think

Douglas
Johnson
Gallinari
Chandler
Bosh

+ A couple of very good role player aquired in a Eddy Curry deal + a 2011 1st round draft pick

=

Championship contender IMO.

The Knicks can’t sit on the capspace hoping that – somehow – a superstar will try to play for them after 2011. The time is now.

McGrady reportedly will take the veteran’s minimum for year 1 and then ink a much bigger contract for his second + years. The Knicks will make it up to him. They could potentially pull the same thing with some other players who want a chance to play with a NY contender.

It takes three years to get birds rights

I could not agree more!!!

Check out this article from David Aldridge:

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/03/08/morning.tip/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Warriors will deal M Ellis for financial relief and a good young cheap player. Trade EC’s expiring & Chandler for Ellis & maybe Morrow.

He makes $11mil per year through 2013-14 and Warrior are capped out with dumb signings ( Maggette & Biedrins). They gave away Crawford & S jackson this year plus don’t forget about all there dumb trades in the past (Webber, Arenas, ect)

Ellis is 25 avg’s 26pts, 4rpg, 5apg, & 2 steals. He is a high turn over guy but he is 2nd in the league in steals per game for the people who said in a previous thread that he plays no D.

I hate the fact that Chandler would be needed to complete the trade but Knicks should do it if they sign LBJ or JJ to replace his athleticism.

G- Ellis
G- T Mac
F- LBJ
F- Gallo
C- Bosh

Bench: TD, Morrow, B Walker, pick, pick, min, min

Only 8 man rotation but that is what MD runs with anyway. Trade works with salaries as well plus knicks get extra 1.5 mil to use for signing. They will need to draft size but starting 5 are all 6-8 or above except for Ellis.

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