From a Fan’s Standpoint, Let’s Talk Knicks Options

This should be interesting.

Now we can see what all the Donnie naysayers hope happens.

Let that basketball knowledge out the bag fellas.

You know I’ll be patrolling so make sure you behave.

Good time to drop in my first post.

I would be happy with solid, hard nosed, physical basketball. I want the team to go all out not because the fans or media want them too but because they want to.

It wouldn’t hurt to have LBJ either. lol

I already posted this on the last thread, but people have this mistaken impression that its Lebron or Bust. That is simply not true. It is really Al Harrington or Bust. People don’t seem to understand what a gifted scorer and player he is. He’s a once in a generation type of player that we can’t afford to not resign. We give him whatever he wants, get a ton fo solid role players who will play d and won’t demnad the ball ever, get rid of guys like Gallo and Chandler and Lee who do annoying things like touch the basketball, and then maybe bring in Lebron as our number 2 option for nights where Al doesn’t have it. Lebron will be aware that its all about Al, so he can just stand around the 3pt line and watch as Al Harrington makes BUCKETS. This will all work out really well. I hope DW stays aware of this and does whatever is possible to hold onto Al.

I would like to see a sign and trade for Has to a new blog!

Personally , LBJ is a biz man. He will be realistic and know that what ever money he decides on larger or small will impact the team ability to put the right pieces together . Depth is a must.

LBJ/Bosh both at 3 year deals with opt out after 2 . Back loaded deals tat are not necessarily MAX deals to begin with .Endorsements will do the rest

Center . MUST

PG : MUST

I actually have no idea who is our best target in those areas are or should be

team so far …

pg?/ Douglas
Ray Allen ? / Chandler
LBj / Gallo/wilson
Bosh / ?
Center?

LOt of teams will try and add the their strengths . Look at Charlotte ( yea Larry Brown cant coach…ha )

Curry’s deal should only be used the right way which , for me , means let his fat butt expire

oh…I think Miami has the best chance of getting either Boozer or Bosch

Boozer might be a cheaper option using his history of injury as bargaining power

Toronto keeps Bosh , safe to say dude isnt that smart

J Johnson, Gay, Amare and the rest of the crew ….. anyone’s guess but I d say its safe to say , that no one is running back a losing environment

Haha nice one.

No dice.

Well of coarse my first option is LeBron/Bosh or LeBron/anyone… if that fails I would like to see STAT brought to the Garden… I used to sour on him but I believe him with the right combination could net us PHX East…

Divide up the 32+M of cap space among Joe Johnson, Amare, and Camby.
Draft with our two second rounders:
Greivis Vasquez – PG Maryland
Craig Brackins – PF Iowa State

Fill our rest of the team with minimum contracts leaving us with a rotation that is talented offensively and defensively:

PG – Johnson
SG – Chandler
SF – Gallo
PF – Amare
C – Camby
Bench – Douglas, Vasquez, Brackins, minimum fillers, Curry

Or you can insert Douglas’ D at starting PG with JJ primary ball handler at the 2 and have Chandler coming off the bench with the two rooks and whatever pleasant surprises you may get in minimum contract guys…

I think that lineup is realistic financially and could be a 50 win team in the East with an aging Celtic squad + in 2011 you get EC’s 11M off the books to get some younger role players or possible mid level star to get younger and deeper for the future.

Bravo.

joe J gay gallo at power
sign a shot blocker.
the only way the knicks getting a good p.g
is by trade.
monta
cp3

no need to sign a power they got gallo.

This is must have been how it was when Donald Trump built that USFL Jersey General’s team that was so successful. Like Trump Donnie Walsh has a lot of money and options at his dispossal. A chance to build a totally new team. It doesn’t matter what happens this year. LBJ doesn’t want to come here. Wade stays in MIA it’s okay. Sign a fee good players. Let’s make the playoffs and continue building from there. I want to continually win. Not win for a year or two

the knicks need to get a real max guy this summer. if they don’t, it proves that all of the moves made by Donnie like trading Craw and zbo for nothing and giving away 3 picks (Hill, 2011 pick swap, and 2012 pick) was a massive blunder.

The emergence of Collison in NO and paul’s recent surgery may make Paul available.

How about Curry’s contract, David sign and trade and Chandler for Paul and the knicks take on okafor’s huge contract? I think that would match up. maybe the knicks would have to sign Sergio for one year and include him in the deal.

the knicks would then have enough to perhaps sign a guy like Gay, though that would be tough because he is a RFA. maybe Ray Allen signs for the vet minimum.

Pg-Paul
SG- Allen
SF- gay
PF- Gallo
C- Okafor

Bench- TD, Walker, House, 2010 second rounders maybe traded for a late first rounder.

It’s a really small team, but its a start. to me, signing Joe J and/or Amare for the max would be a disaster.

Thats all well and good, but i don’t want to be a perennial 5 or lower seed. Without picks, expiring contracts and a real max guy, thats what the knicks would be.

Joe J and Amare think they are max guys. I just don’t see them signing for less. that would take up all of our cap space and leave no $ to spend on glue guys like Camby, etc…

Plus i don’t like Joe at the point

Okay. Let’s say the Big Four won’t sign here straight up (opt-out, what have you). This system needs a good PG, a dynamic PnR 4/5, athletes, and shooters. You need to save some money for ’11 and pray ‘Melo wants the keys to NYC. So, you need to build a solid, yet cheap team. You can target a 1 like Felton or keep Rodriguez, Get a guy like Mike Miller at the 2, see the price tag for Rudy Gay at the 3 (giving you Wil as another trade chip) or keep Wil there, Gallo at the 4 (IMO), and look at your 5′s. Amar’e, Bosh (on a Lee SnT), Lee, Camby, either O’Neal…

Now, what SHOULD you do? You need to either have Gallo as your long-term 3 and slide ‘Melo to the 2 (and not overpaying someone like JJ or Miller) or have Gallo at the 4. Focus has to be a playmaking big, since PG’s are hard to come by this year. SnT for Bosh has to be Plan A to me. Pairing him up with Jermaine O’Neal (yes, or Camby) at a cheap 2 year deal would be a great line, I think. I really don’t like Amar’e in comparison to Bosh, so that would be a tough pill to swallow. I do think we have a shot at getting Bosh. Hopefully, Mac will get into nice shape over the summer, and you can sign him to be the 1/2 (maybe $3M per for 2), pairing him with a guy like TD’s boy Randy Foye, or a true PG like Sergio or Raymond Felton. Add a few vets on one year deals and see what happens. Maybe you can even get a guy like Ray Allen for a one year deal, pick up Sergio’s QO for a year as a backup, and have Mac run the point with Ray at the 2. Lots of options; one lineup may look like this:

Raymond Felton
Tracy McGrady
Danilo Gallinari
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O’Neal

Toney Douglas
Bill Walker
Wilson Chandler
Tim Thomas
Eddy Curry
(Draft Pick)
(Draft Pick)

i really see Wade staying in Miami and them adding either Bosh, Boozer or Amare.

Chicago gets one of the remainders.

Nets getting the other to add to their two stars plus their high pick.

Those three teams have what it takes to sell the prospect of a winning, championship caliber team next year to possible free agents.

“What would you be happy with from the Knicks stand point, aside from Lebron or Wade/Bosh combination and factoring in a sign and trade option for David Lee and Eddy Curry?”

Damn. Nice way to tie our hands.

I guess I won’t be happy.

Just for sh**s and giggles:
LeBron and Stoudemire would make me happy then a trade for Chris Paul and Emeka (assuming he’s going to be forced on us in that scenario) using Curry’s contract with Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas maybe.

Paul
Walker
LeBron
Stoudemire
Emeka

Gallo off the bench.

T-Mac for crumbs?

Lee can kick rocks.

I am just happy to be in a position to be able to make basketball moves rather than salary moves. I hope we are smart enough to spend the money wisely. Meaning that we know the difference between having cap space and having to spend that money. I think LBJ Wade and Bosh should be courted with all of the bells and whistles. I think Joe Johnson should get a very strong look because his (or LBJ’s) presence could potentially boost the value of Toney Douglas. Joe can handle the rock and can run the offense, so a traditional pg isn’t a pressing concern. After that, regardless of whether we are successful or not at signing the top four , I think we should only spend the money on shorter contracts at numbers that make sense to the Knicks. I’ve learned that the length of the contract is what makes it movable or not- so if contracts are shorter, you can always have roster flexibility. Also, this isn’t baseball. You can’t just throw an extra 10 mil and extra years just so you can secure someone and not worry about them being good at the end of the contract. I think we need to be prudent and find players who will want to play for D’Antoni and with whoever we get.

Then we need to get LUCKY!! We would have never been as good as we were in the 90′s if we hadn’t fallen into John Starks and Anthony Mason. We need to find a couple of Diamonds in the rough who can come in without expectations and surprise everyone.

Then we can focus on either signing a defensive minded assistant coach or if this coach is too arrogant and stubborn to get on board with the idea then he can eat sh** and die for all I care, fire his a$$.

Now, we are throwing in more young talent, Chandler. Next we wil hear Cavaliers are open to a sign and trade Lebron for Gallinari, Walker, Douglas and 2100 (Not a typo) picks. We will have a team of Bosh, Lebron and Curry. and we still have 2011 flexibility!

What happened to this plan?

Source: Picks Holding up Deal
By Tommy Dee – Feb 15, 2010 11:31 pm
As you know I’m a Jordan Hill believer, but to use him to move Jeffries seems to be the right play as it would wipe away nearly $10 million dollars in salary cap space for **this** summer.

Walsh Puts Plan in Motion
By Tommy Dee – Feb 18, 2010 2:40 pm
Say what you want about Donnie Walsh, he has a plan. We know this but now we know just how committed he is.
Understand this, the move was for Lebron, yes, but more importantly it’s for Lebron’s next 10 years. And it gives the team the ability to start from scratch.

when is DVJ going on record?

or is it whatever Donnie does is cool by you?

besides Lebron/wade i would be OK with Bosh/JJ AT THE RIGHT PRICE. — under 30 mil for the two. so there is enough to get Camby as well.

anything else is a FAIL.

When does the blog host go on record as to who is a “Star” and who isnt?

I’d also be OK with a sign and trade for CP3 or Melo as the MAJOR star piece..

again.. anything less than a team defining YOUNG star signed this summer is an Epic Fail.

53.2
PG – Raymond Felton (6.0) Tony Douglas (1.1) 2nd Round Pick (1.0)
SG – Tracy McGrady (3.0) Wilson Chandler (2.1)
SF – Danillo Gallinari (3.3) Bill Walker (1.0)
PF – Chris Bosh (16) Ben Wallace (1.5) 2nd Round Pick (1.0)
C – Brendan Haywood (6.0) Eddy Curry (11.2)

With the above scenario maybe we can work a trade with NO for CP3, since they’re trying to dump salary and now have two very good PGs.

Or we wait for Curry to fall off the books and go after someone else next summer to add to this solid core.

Any thoughts?

Give Carlos Boozer 14 Mil, Rudy Gay 10, , and Brenden Heywood 7 (or Sam Dalembert at 6)
Start the season with:
Douglas/Sergio
Gay
Gallo
Boozer
Heywood
Bench:
Chandler
Douglas/Sergio
Curry
Walker
Gittens
Patrick Jr.
D-League Center
Then during the season, use Curry, and cash to get Chris Paul (N.O. has Collison and needs money). So you have: Paul, Gay, Gallo, Boozer, and Heywood, and if you want to go lighter and faster, put Chandler in at PF and move Boozer to Center. We won’t stop anybody, but we can run most people out of the gym… which is this coaches style anyway. And nobody on the team is over 30. Boozer gets to be the man, so he’s happy. With this group, we can be competitive during the year, and have trade assets and cap space at the trading deadline to try to get Carmello or some draft picks. That’s how you rebuild on the fly.

Oh, and this is an alternate plan in case we don’t get Wade, Bosh or LeBron.

i doubt you could get NoLa to give up Chris Paul for Eddy Curry and cash..

you’d have to take back another large contract such as Okafor or Peja.. and include future first round picks.

But i’d be happy getting Paul as the “star”

And 1!

Wouldn’t you think that Memphis would match if we only offered Gay $10 mil?

Biggie, if Hoopsworld is right, Peja’s only an ETO for next year, so he contract ends after. I think the only way that flies is if you take Paul/Peja and give them Chandler, someone else cheap, and cash, and use your current cap space to take on ALL that extra salary. I’d love Paul as my star, too, but is ending all other ’10 flexibility with Peja worth it? (I really don’t wanna take back Okafor………)

Biggie,

Wouldn’t you have to be under the cap to take on all that salary (Paul and Okafor), unless you were signing you own player?

We Still have 3 mil left in cap space if we do this, I don’t know what Memphis has. If we have to give him more we could, but we have to keep money around for pay increases, just like Memphis does. They have a couple of good young players and I don’t think they can afford to match.

NO isn’t going to win next year, and Paul is miserable. They are also cash strapped. If they can’t get his salary off the books for the following year, it would make sense for them to find a seat for three months after the trade deadline. They would save 13 mil, and still have Collison. We’ve proven this year that you can’t unload all your trash contracts in one deal. They’ll have to find another taker for Okafor.

…find a seat for Eddie for three months.

Saying we did, though, it’s possible to target ‘Melo (ETO) and Al Horford (RFA) in ’11… Paul/Mac/Melo/Gallo/Horford is one hell of a young haul, but an even riskier play than ’10 was.

I think that we have a very good young defensive core with Douglas, Gallinari, and Chandler. I have a feeling we shouldn’t give that up. And I think Lee is actually a pretty special player. Although not a defensive specialist, his rebounding and scoring (including clutch scoring) make him a solid contributor, and I think he’s good at developing offensive chemistry with his teammates.

To me, there’s something very knick-like about Toney, Gallo, and Lee (and after Wil’s games saving block, I’d say him too). And I like what I see from Walker as well.

Defensive leadership is something every contender needs, and I think the Knicks have that in their young core – a core which is also has offense. Add that to Lee’s understanding of team offense, and I think there is something very intriguing here… right now. What they sorely lack is size.

So what I would do is

1. Go after LeBron. If we get him, re-sign Lee, try to re-sign Sergio, and get a rebounding center…. hopefully sign one, but if you have to trade Chandler to do it, then so be it.

2. If we don’t sign LeBron, still, sign Lee, keep Sergio, sign McGrady to a one year deal, and SIGN A REBOUNDING CENTER.

a. I would not give a max deal to Joe Johnson. I’d consider signing him for less, but I don’t think he would.

b.I’d only sign Bosh if Lee decided to leave.

3. I happen to think Kobe opts out of his deal. If LeBron doesn’t sign with the Knicks, I’d sign Kobe and exercise plan 1 except with Kobe instead of LeBron.

Hoops hype has Peja down for 15 plus in 2011..

Early Termination Option is a Player Option.

Only thing that may be wrong is that Cuban may go overboard in keeping Haywood. Other than that, it’s pretty solid.

Right; 10/11, this coming season. NO wouldn’t just give away Paul AND Peja for Curry when both Peja and Curry come off the books at the same time, would they?

Been reading for a while….1st time adding my 2 cents

I have never believed James, Wade, Bosh, etc, were going to come to NY… and doubt that Walsh or Dolan have ever assumed or banked on it .

I doubt that Walsh….after just getting us out of cap hell is going to jump right back in and overpay for a Joe Johnson type, ie; very good but not great.
JJ is the final piece type….maybe ……and in that context may be worth overpaying for.

Walsh is a NY guy who watched Holtzman’s teams, he knows he needs pieces first. Many of the “stars” of today want it to be “their” team, so to assume Walsh can just sign a few “stars” even assuming he wanted to, is not realistic …..too many factors… on court/chemistry and financially.

The broad assumption that in 2010 or 2011 the Knicks would be contenders has always been nonsense. Walsh couldn’t come out and say 2 years ago that we are rebuilding and it will realistically take us 5 years. So, he let the fans and media make FA assumptions and run with them.

I expect he is looking to add a piece or 2 this summer and next. The max guy comes after, with the pieces in place, the proven “go to” guy that wins you a ring.
There may not be one guy on this team that will be here in say 4 years. The team is being built to be a perenial contender, for a refurbished Garden, with a spun off TV and entertainment network.

I am hoping for a competitive, watch-able team next season and fully expect Walsh to deliver same. In 2 years the playoffs, in 3 being a Top 8 team.

Get rid of everyone on this team except Gallo and Douglas. Including Chandler. I hope they can get something good for him, because he just doesn’t seem to know how to play within the system.

I would love to see the Knicks try to trade Curry and Chandler for something like Gortat and filler. That Gortat guy can play defense, and would seem to give us something we’re missing.

Oh, and I am incapable of imagining next year’s roster without Lebron. I know that Im setting myself up for a major disappointment, but its the only way I can get truly excited.

I would like to see a new coach ASAP.

Also, a top pt guard and defensive center!

If we can’t get LBJ or wade then we better be honest with the fanes and not over pay for players like JJ or Bosh! We’re not gonna be conteneders with just LBJ alone anyway because we have too many holes and one big a-s-shole as a coach!

Agreed.

Would also like to see Donnie manipulate any additional cap space for future 1st round draft picks like Memphis and OKL have done over the years.

There are alternate scenarios, galore lol.

Chris Paul
Tracy McGrady
Peja Stojakovic
Danilo Gallinari
Jermaine O’Neal

Toney Douglas
Bill Walker
Jonathan Bender
Tim Thomas
Eddy Curry
(Draft Pick)
(Draft Pick)

(Mac and O’Neal assumed vet min)

then Eddy and Peja come off, letting us target Melo/Durant and Horford. Risky, but another possiblity.

1. Sign Joe Johnson.
2. Sign-and-trade David Lee for Chris Bosh.
3. Trade Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas for Jerryd Bayless and a conditional 1st rounder.

STARTING LINE-UP :

PG : Jerryd Bayless
SG : Joe Johnson
SF : Danilo Gallinari
PF : *
C : Chris Bosh

BENCH :

- Eddy Curry traded for *Turiaf, Radmanovic and a conditional 1st rounder.
- Bill Walker
- Jarvis Varnado (2nd round draft pick)
- Greivis Vasquez (2nd round draft pick)
- 4 Minimum FA’s

Plus Joe Johnson turned down 60mil 4yrs from Atl.

For those of you who are not math majors is 15 mil a year. He is seeking for max money.

I do like the Vazques pick but he won’t last till the second round IMO.

My idea is not that far off from yours Mucha…

1. Sign Joe Johnson to a back loaded Max deal. (1st yr starting @ 13 M)
2. Sign and trade Lee for Bosh. Give Bosh a back loaded Max extension. I don’t think JJ and Bosh are Max players but we just might have to give them both Max deals. (1st yr starting @ 13 M)
3. Trade Curry’s exp and Chandler for CP3.
* Notice only 26 million are spent on the 2 Max guys.

PG – CP3 (15M)
SG – Joe Johnson (13M)
SF – Bill Walker (700K)
PF – Gallo (3.3M)
C – Bosh (13M)

Total 45 Million(minus TD salary)

Fill out the roster with the remaining money and 2nd round picks.

Great scenario I love it.

But I don’t know if Curry’s expiring contract plus Wilson Chandler’s enough for Chris Paul – I don’t think so. Your team lacks size and interior defense too – which is why I suggested a Curry for Turiaf and Radmanovic trade. Just my POV.

I feel u. Just wishful thinking…

@Mucha

Maybe add a Haywood at C and move Walker to the bench…

absurd.

I guess you’d prefer a core of Zebo, Crawford, Jarred Jeffries and Hill?

playing well enough to miss the lottery, but never well enough to win a championship.

Just having the the flexibility is a huge NON-fail. Blowing up the Layden/Isaiah mess epic NON-fail.

Truthfully, if we cant get LBJ or Wade then I sign Camby,Gay and Felton or Blake. Save the rest to make a run @ 2011. I dont waste the $$ on guys who aren’t max players (ie Johnson & Bosh)

Well if we do not have LBJ or Wade as options:

S & T Lee, TD, & Giddens (p/u team option) for Bosh(max)
S & T Curry & Chandler for M Ellis & B Morrow
sign Camby, T Thomas, M Barnes
resign T Mac ,S Rod
pick up option Walker

PG- Ellis(11), S Rod (1.8)
SG- T Mac (3), B Morrow(1)
SF- M Barnes (2), Walker(850K)
PF- Gallo(3.3), T Thomas(6)
C- Bosh(16.5), Camby(6)
2 2nd rd picks ( 473,604 x 2)
total= $51,450,000+ $947,208= $52,397,208

all salaries are realistic based off current salaries with exception to T Mac