Johnson on Knicks: “I don’t know what’s going to happen.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2010/03/12/2010-03-12_knicks_hope_all_isnt_lost.html

At the bottom it reads:

“There is a growing sentiment among opposing team executives that at the very least the Knicks will sign Atlanta’s Joe Johnson, whose agent, Arn Tellem, orchestrated the Tracy McGrady trade to the Knicks and has been friends with Walsh for 20 years. It’s called a “wink-wink deal,” and even though it is against NBA rules, the practice does exist and is nearly impossible to police.

“I think that’s a done deal,” said one Eastern Conference GM.”

This seems kind of far fetched in my opinion

Tommy you really need to stop mentioning 2011 because the very indication of waiting is a logical fail since DW wouldn’t have had to make space early. The knicks must sign 1 star atleast this summer. That star if paid the max should be a young star like LBJ, Bosh or Wade. To me if the knicks get 1 star like lets say Bosh then Joe as the second guy isn’t the smart option. Instead the knicks should sign a guy like Ginoboli for 2 season at like 9 to 11 mil then explore Fa again with the extra space they will have and maybe land a star like Durant to team up with Bosh.

IMO Ginoboli is and would be a better player in the Knicks system than Joe since he is a better team player and and a better fit . He and Gallo would better comliment a star. Not to mention Ginoboli is a proven winner with the hardware to prove it.

would you take BOSH and JOHNSON ?

PG-
SG-Johnson
SF-Gallo
PF-Bosh
C-Camby?

Joe is a very good player but don’t get hyped off the mix tape highlights. Joe will rape the Knicks finaciallly. Like DW said a player is good at one price and bad at another. Look at the statistics of Joe as a starter and Ginoboli as as a starter for thier careers and this year. Ginoboli is the cheaper option short term.

the uncertainty regarding 2011 is an important point that can not be over looked.

The CBA will undergo major revisions after this off season. Those changes could drastically impinge the free agent market place.

a change in the BRI percentage going to players from 57% to 50% could impact the salary cap by 8-10 million dollars.

I think that is part of the reason Donnie went all in for 2010. He has to come out of 2010 with a major star. And lets be clear. Major star is a code word for Lebron or Wade .. In the trade market I think that would include Chris Paul as the only other player that could reasonably be pried away from their current team.

Im not sure if Melo will be an option. Perhaps in a trade but the Knicks have very few tradable assets… And Denver is in flux in their front office with their GM Warkenstein possibly going to LAC. (can Donnie pry Warkenstein away with the promise to retire or move upstairs to MSG President???) .. single digit chance of that.. and Melo is due 18.5 in 2011 on a player option.. with a shrinking cap (based on post 2010 CBA) that is major coin.. considering a max contract may contract to 13 or less.

So we are talking Lebron, Wade, melo and CP3 as the real “star franchise changing players”..

I think i’d be OK with Bosh/Joe Johnson if they both take in the 14 range.. slim to no chance of that tho..

Yeah i like the duo but its not as good as Bosh and Durant. If that team doesnt win a chip then you are stuck with Joe’s massive contract. I would rather commit to a cheaper short term option to pair up with a young star then go shoping again for another young star. Thats just me.

at the right price. .. not for two max deals tho…

you dont get Camby for the vet minimum.. at least mid level money

“But they do have flexibility come 2011″
They had that since the Crawford/Zack deals. Hill and the 2 picks were about THIS year, according to this blog.
Hate to sound like a broken record, but so do you. You are repeating the company line about 2011 because you are trying to cultivate new sources on the Knicks. The ones you have now have not been too good. Just try not to make it too obvious.

what you hust said to me seems like a good reason not to commit to Joe at a massive contract for the next 5 seasons . the dude is 29 and not getting better . If the max might be less in a few years then wouldn’t it make sense to sign a guy like Ginoboli short term to team up with a star then shop again in 2 seasons? The only way you dont do that is if you get 2 young stars this summer like Bosh and Lebron, or Wade. If joe cant take you to the promise land then what ?

The only real prize is Lebron and he is priceless. If we get Lebron, the fans will be happy and filling in the holes in the line up will be easy. Absent Lebron, there are a number of combinations that could work but it is always a maybe it could work. I don’t think anyone in New York is going to be real happy if Lebron stays in Cleveland?? It has been too many years of disappointment.

I just have a bad feeling that if the Knicks sign Bosh and Lebron the starters would look something like :
PG S-Rod
SG Joe
SF Gallo
PF Chandler
C Bosh
Call me crazy but i dont think this squad will be good enough to beat LA anytime soon. Then we will be pretty much stuck with that team for 5 years . 5 years of making the playoffs but never hacving a real shot at winning it all. The money should be spent long term if its a young star only.

I must admit like Tommy I feel there will be moves made out side of FA decisions especially with Eddy’s contract as a major asset. I think that contract can tip the balance for the knicks. Even Big -Z’s contract got the Cavs Jamison and they didn’t even keep him which goes to show you that Eddy’s individual failure has nothing to do with the worth of his 11mil expiring . I don’t even think there will be to many expirings like that this summer.

I imagine there was some element of a wink-wink deal to the Tmac trade..it seems like the Knicks gave up way too much for uncertainties if thats not the case. I worry about Joe Johnson past a 3-4 year contract, but I think a lot of people on here have been short-changing this guy. He is a real player and just by himself would make us a playoff team in my opinion. With a solid team around him and Curry’s expiring as a trade asset, I think we could really do well next year. That’s just me though and I understand the uncertainty with him, especially with the historically proven drop off age of 32 coming up soon for him.

You gotta like Ginobili, but what about his age?

Yep, With T-Mac, we’re implementing the Joba rules on him now. It’s either put him on lay-a-way next to Duhon or use up his best 20 minutes in the 1st half before Peanut Brittle sit and get cold.

T-Mac is saying all the right things trying to sell himself to another team next year.

Also, Joe Johnson can truly get get lost on his own team! Remember, when he left PHX and was gonna be that superstar for Atl?

Joe Johnson is a nice complimentary player not a star!

Let’s be honest here in that Walsh has a truly huge job to fill all the holes on this team..starting with coach!

You’re correct in that many fans would be happy. However, real fans would see that we still have a loooong way to go to field a contending team. We have too many holes to field. If LBJ does have a ring in Cleveland yet with more talent, then it’s hard to think he could do it here soon.

We have failed to develop players that could compliment a LBJ on this team. LBJ may have to play center on this team!

i honestly think Bosh and Joe Johnson can make us competitive…..Boston doesn’t have many yrs left, and Orlando will be on the decline soon w/ Vince, if Lebron resigns to play in Cleveland, i think they would be our biggest competition in the east…..I think we can get camby for 2yrs mid-level, bosh n joe johnson for 14mill each….n once curry’s contract expires we can add a third star in 2011 like melo or cp3…..collison has been putting up cp3 numbers lately and the way they’ve been goin, they may take the cheap route out n get rid of him….

i say sign johnson if we can’t get lebron, sign and trade lee for bosh, and split the mid-level btw mcgrady n camby

s-rod
johnson
mcgrady
gallo
bosh

bench:
camby
chandler(unless he’s snt to toronto w/ lee, hopefully not)
douglas
walker
giddens

I don’t want Joe at the max if that’s the case I would rather go for Rudy gay younger and alot more upside and possible next star. I’ll take gay and bosh along with Felton gallo and wil as the starting 5 if lebron isn’t coming.

You make valid points about Ginobili. However, Manu will be 33 when the season starts. And he’s injury prone. It’s too risky for a rebuilding team imo.

As far as our 1B signing is concerned……………

I would much prefer signing TMac to a shorter cheaper deal than Joe Johnson to some crazy, or max deal.

After all, they’re essentially the same age (granted TMac has higher milage on his body)

Assuming that TMac could show up healthier next season (and I believe that he will) he could probably give us similar stats to Johnson number wise, plus I think that he could handle the NYC pressure.

The possible difference in money (8-10 million) left over to us could allow for an additional one to three players to be signed.

In example: Camby, plus a point guard, or another bench player, or two!

Of course, my thoughts are based on us first signing LeBron, Bosh, or Wade as our 1a

I saw this on Real GM:

An Eastern Conference GM thinks Joe Johnson will sign with the Knicks if they are not able to land LeBron James or Dwyane Wade.

“I think that’s a done deal,” the GM said, referring to some type of unspoken agreement between Johnson’s agent and the Knicks.

Sources also report that the Raptors would be open to sending Chris Bosh to New York in a sign-and-trade if David Lee is included in the deal.

If Lebron doesn’t come here I would say go for Bosh and Rudy Gay. Gay is going to be a star and who says we need to pay him the max?

isnt getting involved with the Ginobli’s, Camby’s and Tmacs of the world frighteningly similar to the Cavs strategy?

i thought the idea was to get a few YOUNG guys that lebron would want to grow with and play with for an extended period… Roling out broken down players like T Mac and 33 year old guards doesnt sound like a great way to build a dynasty..

just saying.

good point. I think they need to sign one of those guys as a veteran leader, I particularly think signing Ginobli would be amazing in that type of role. But it is about building a team around the young guys, which we now only have 3 of. Maybe we can develop Bill Skywalker and Sergio to add to that, but we need to get some good young talent.

I agree, unless they’re on real short contracts.

TMac is 2 years older and has been playing 4 years longer and has much more injuries including a serious knee surgery, How can you possibly compare the 2

What’s Up Shakes!

I see where you’re trying to go, but While we’re waiting for the Celtics to get old, and hoping that the LeBrons don’t get better, I don’t see the Lakers, or Mavericks, or a few other teams out west that would feel threatened by this line-up. We would still need a go to guy. Johnson is a go-to for about 45 minutes a game, but not the last three. Bosh is a go-to for about 45 games a year, when he’s not hurt. McGrady is a go-to for about 48 shots a year, you just have to hope he saves some for the end of games. Unless Gallo reaches his potential as a go-to scorer, we’ll be really good, but not great.

Very interesting to hear that JJ is a “done deal”. Also extremely interesting article in the post about Avery Johnson being the Knicks 2nd choice. I couldn’t help but think how different our franchise would look and how interesting it is that Dantoni and Johnson are pretty much polar opposites as coaches. Dantoni is offensively oriented, free-wheeling, very hands-off, and generally considered a players coach. Johson is defensive, disciplined, very hands-on, and will get in players faces. Very interesting to think about what could have been.

Someone mentioned that sign and trade before – I’m torn on it. It dont know how exactly it would work out, but essentially we’d end up signing Bosh to a super-max contract, where he’d get an extra year and a slightly larger salary?

The problem with the sign and trade, is that I really see it as more of a tool to acquire a free agent if you are not under the cap. I dont understand why we’d spend two years getting under the cap to do a sign and trade. And, if this is true, it makes Donnie look reall bad – If the Raptors are open to a sign and trade with Lee involved, we could have never purged the roster, had a competitive basketball team for two years, then sign and trade Lee for Bosh in 2010, and go into 2011 with Bosh locked up and major cap space, all of our draft picks and we didnt sit through two horrible years.

But, I think if anyway, the goal has to be Lebron. My immediate reaction to the 2010 plan, while everyone was still gushing about how we got rid of Zach, was that I had never seen a rebuilding process like this, and if we dont strike gold in 2010, we’re screwed. Now that July 1st is near, we are all getting antsy. With Zach an All-Star and Crawford looking the the 6th man of the year, you have to think about this regime – but, in even if we dont get Lebron, I think we had to give it a shot.

But, back to Bosh – I actually have no problem giving him max money. 5 years, that means we have him until he’s 31, pretty much his entire prime. The guy right now is having his best season, 24, 11, a block, 2 assists, and he has range on his jumper – kind of sounds a little like Lee – except Bosh commands a double in the post and is going to be a matchup problem for most east bigs. I just watched a couple of Magic/Raps highlights to see how he does against Dwight, and he kind of fades into the background a lot which you can’t love – I mean, Im not sold on him as a Tim Duncan all-world power foward, but for this system, put him around a bunch of good athletic player snad good things could happen.

“i thought the idea was to get a few YOUNG guys that lebron would want to grow with and play with for an extended period…”

Exactly!!

Whether we like it or not, we will still be rebuilding next year. I can’t see the Lakers sitting around going, “I sure hope the Knicks don’t get LeBron and Bosh next year!” LeBron = championship has not happened yet, and may not ever. Wilt was the most dominant person in the NBA for ten years, and never played on a bad team, but won one championship during that time. Even if we get the best player we have to have the tools around him to be the best team. That’s why they play the game.

I love Joe Johnson, but it doesn’t seem like a great idea to max a guy at 29 years old. Bosh for max and Rudy for 11m seems smarter, although Rudy has yet to show he can play defense like Joe Johnson. But having a few extra bucks left to sign a shotblocker and/or point guard is kind of important.

“With Zach an All-Star and Crawford looking the the 6th man of the year, you have to think about this regime – but, in even if we dont get Lebron, I think we had to give it a shot.”

Yeah you said it all right there. But come on with the Zach and Crawford love, as you just said in there Zach might be an allstar but so is David Lee. Memphis is far superior to us at every position not even counting Zach, and they are still probably not going to make the playoffs. He is a cap-killing, franchise-killing contract that I am so glad no matter what that we got rid of. And Crawford is a 6th man, we weren’t building a good team around those 2 guys anyway. Maybe an 8 seed, but would you really want to sacrifice a chance at Lebron for those 2 guys and a possible 8 seed. I just wish we could have held onto at least Crawford and tried to get a desperate contender looking for a scorer off the bench to give up future assets to us instead of getting Chucketts back. That was where I had a problem with the Crawford trade. We needed to get rid of Zbo asap though, I never thought he could be traded let alone that he’s now been traded twice.

I agree with your comment but, Wilt won 2 championships, one with the 1966-1967 Philadelphia 76ers and the other with the 1971-1972 Los Angeles Lakers.

All this talk about Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh is making me think you guys really dont get it….THIS IS ALL ABOUT AL HARRINGTON. Seriously have you guys considered what we can do with a team starring him. We would be unbeatable, he just has too many guys around him who demand the ball right now…we should trade these guys right now. How about this for our future?

1. Resign Eric Snow to the veterans minimum..He has experience playing with AI, but it would still be a tough adjustment to get to that next level with Al Harrington.

2. Trade Gallo and Chandler right now for anyone. These 2 guys are getting in the way of Al Harringtons development. We need to focus on him. Trade them for guys like Brian Cardinal, Mark Madsen, and Mario West. Thats all we need surrounding Al.

3. Al might need a second in command for nights that he just doesn’ have it. Maybe we sign Joe Johnson or Chris Bosh to fill that role, but they have to be aware that it is all about Al. They have to know that our best chance at winning is for them to stand at the 3 pt line and clear out so Al can spin and win in the paint like he always does.

4. Just for comedy’s sake and marketing, we need to find someone named Raphael, Donatello, Leonardo, or Michelangelo. Just scour the italian league and sign some guys.

This our chance guys. We can’t afford to mess this up. We will only have one chance at resigning Al, everyone else is a consolation prize. We can do this. Championship for sure.

I think Joe Johnson IS a possibility, but not a given it depends on what type of success he experiences in the playoffs. I could see him potentially using the Knicks to push up his asking price.

Tommy raises a valid point that it is a major decision for the Atlanta, it certainly is and Horford will certainly garner a near max contract if he keeps developing. I think it depends on the level they can reach in the playoffs, if they can reach at least the conference Finals and the city gets behind the team the way they did last year they could expand their fan base (which is well-documented as being less than capacity) to a wider audience for next year. They are a very young team and locking up Horford and Joe Johnson would be a risk well worth taking imo. They could always trade Horford or any other of their young studs if things didn’t work out.

I think the Knicks could end up overpaying for Gay at maybe 12 mil per and Boozer at the max, with close to 4 mil to fill out the rest of the roster.

Ugly.

I hope I’m wrong.

I think IF Bosh leaves he’ll join Wade in Miami or Rose in Chicago.

LeBron or bust.

crawford said he will lobby for the hawks signing joeJ an he will tell joeJ about the losing culture in the garden etc.

but this article makes me want to become a nets fan

http://realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/65313/20100312/gm_sees_johnson_to_ny_raptors_open_to_bosh_lee_trade/

that hahn article on gallo
looks like danni boy wrote that..

real talk

the reality will be
they got rid of those 2
to sign very similar players.
unless it’s wade or lebron.
thats the reality of the outcome
great job donnie..

I think JJ’s gonna command a max contract he’s not worth. Bosh’s gonna look for a max as well, and if he’s to make any exceptions at all, maybe, pipedreaming, it’d be to team up with James and tear this league apart.
JJ and Bosh would be a nice duo, but the money the’ll want will leave this team with little money to operate after that. I know many are of the choice that with 2 max guys this team’s good to go, but will Douglas be ready to pair up with Johnson? If Bosh’s to be center, is Gallo gonna be our PF? If that’s so, I see our present problems in the paint happening again.
What about the bench? Bosh and JJ are gonna need some rest before getting burning up. The team would be an injury or two of losing their competitive edge.
It’d be unbelievable to get an honest to god chance at Paul, but I don’t see how DW could pull that miracle off.
But I agree with you Biggie that’s it’s clear that Walsh is going all in the summer because of the uncertainty that CBA revision porvoke.

I was focusing on Wilt’s prime years. By the time Wilt won his second championship he was no longer the most dominant player in the league, and not even on his team. In his late LA years he had transformed himself into an offensive facilitator, and Jerry West was the star of his team.

lmao…

thats real talk comedy

I thought the current team was all about Al????

“Gay is going to be a star and who says we need to pay him the max?”

Not so much the max, but the Knicks will have to pass a certain threshold for the Grizzlies not to match and we know they offered him 10 mil in the offseason, so I would assume it will have to be significantly more than that. I think at least 12 mil starting would force them to blink.

No thats the problem of why we are not winning. The team is not enough about Al. We have pesky annoyances like Gallo, Wilson, Douglas, Tmac, Sergio, David Lee, and Bill walker really getting in the way of Al getting shots. Its a real problem.

“…Zach might be an allstar but so is David Lee.”

Difference is, the coaches voted Zach Randolph in. _avi_ Lee? Stern put him on the team.

donnie traded those 2
to have the chance at signing
the best player in the league
in his prime
yet you wanted to hold on
to randolph and crawford
so that maybe
they can make the playoffs as a 7 seed
that makes no sense
real talk..

A sign and trade wouldn’t make Donnie look bad!
We had to get under the cap, because there are no guarantees that LeBron or another superstar would get traded here, and having cap flexibility to outright sign a free agent is a different thing altogether.

If we were to sign and trade Lee for Bosh, that would benefit both players, because they could each get signed for an extra year (security) and at a higher salary, because of their respective teams holding their rights.
And that obviously would make for more incentive for the player to join the new team.

Are we really “screwed” if we don’t strike gold this summer?

I personally, don’t think so, especially relative to were we have come from.

We will have flexibility, which is needed for any team that wants to make the best of possible deals, whether they be free agent signings, trading a rookie contract for a max contract without having to match salaries etc.

We can hopefully build a team of “winning” players who “play the right way” as Larry Brown would say.
After all we must just hope that Donnie can do his best VanGogh with this new canvas that he will have.

I wish that we had 2010 and 2012 draft picks but, I have to believe that we will put a few good young players on our roster by other means, as well as possibly buying some lower (20′s-30′s draft picks), and who knows what we might get for Eddy’s expiring contract?
It could be pretty good.

And as far as Zach and Jamal are concerned, if they’re having winning seasons finally, it’s because they are around more of the right players.

Do we really believe that either of them are leaders?

I’m excited about the possibilities, and don’t even beleive that Dolan (jerkoff that he is) douched the prior regime only to stay mired in sh*t.

And 1

ginobli is hurt all the time …Johnson…not so much….there is nothing worse than signing a good player for lots o dough,and having him hurt for periods of time .Looking into health history,is gonna be very important

+1

are you nuts? T-Mac may never even come close to the player he was,and the chance of a serious injury is extremly high

That’s very very good sign from gallo in that piece the NBA could use more of those kinds of players