Bosh Unhappy; Danny Granger has an Opinion

I’d take a Bosh summer over a Joe Johnson summer. Miami can have Amar’e.

hey great post….like the granger thread at the end…that’s REELTALK…

i do have a question for all the knicks fans out there, if we weren’t able to get Bosh this summer, would you guys sign and trade Lee and Curry for Tyson Chandler and Boris Diaw????

Chandler is jus as injury prone as Curry, but i think would be a better fit in the system, especially on the defensive end…he’s a great help defender, kinda like a young Camby….and Diaw is a favorite of D’Antoni’s, as is Lee, I think Diaw can put up the same numbers as Lee and has at times when Amare was done in PHX….and i think is a better post defender than Lee is, and a we-bit of a better passer…..if we sign Lee for 9mil and trade him to Charlotte this deal works perfectly numbers wise…..what u guys think???

Tommy I might be wrong but it seems as if you are trying to take something away from Bosh yet you always endorse Lee as a piece the knicks should keep going foward despite him being an inferior player to Bosh. You even suggested they get a defensive guy to make up for his flaws. If you switch Bosh and Lee what do you think the Raptors and Knicks record would be ? You are “the knicks pg of info” then you should be benched for that view point. Lee is only here for sign and trade purposes. Bosh is a real All-star that does make a difference and more than Lee does.

No way!!!!!!

Agreed

I dont remember Tommy endorsing Lee as a piece the Knicks should keep going forward.

Yeah he even suggested pairing him with TY Thomas. Go back a few blogs.

In my opinion I believe that is a terrible trade. In no way is that a good trade for the knicks because number one boris diaw is terrible and number two the knicks give up too good of a player for two average injury prone players. if you were too have Lee at PF with Bosh at C next year I would be happy and I believe Defense wont be as much of an issue

There are only two players I want from ths years FA class Wade or Lebron. If we sign either Im fine with siging Bosh or Johnson. However, if Lebron and Wade stay I really dont want any of the second tier stars especially for Max money. What the knicks should do is begin to fill the knicks with a super supporting cast which would allow them to land a player like Kevin Durant (restricted FA) a year later. In fact dare I say it the Knicks might have a better team if they wait another year rather than spending than spending on ver priced stars this year. For example: Lets say the Knicks strike out of Lebron and Wade. The knicks will have approx. 30 million in cap space. What they could do is not sign any max players but rather sign supporting cast like Camby for say 2 yrs 10 mill , and Gay 5 yrs 45mil which would use up almost half the cap space at 14 mil. They would then wait another year and in the process and shed Curry’s 11 million dollars and possibly adding more cap space by trading Chandler or letting him walk since he is a restricted free agent in 2011. Come 2011 FA the Knicks would not only be in great financial position again next year but have a better supporting cast. In 2011 the Knicks could go after Carmelo Anthoney who can be a an unrestricted FA or Tony Park an unrestricted, or Kevin Durant.

It’s not Lebron or bust for me but if David Lee is back. the 2010 plan is a complete and utter failure.

If we don’t get anyone this summer i honestly believe D’Antoni will quit after 2010 (which would make some happy) and Donnie is coming close to retirement.

I trust Donnie and believe with the respect he has around the league and the experience he can get us the right team. I don’t get why its Lebron or bust? Lebron hasn’t exactly won anything in the NBA yet and in NY all that matters is championships.

I always think a TEAM is the most important thing and not 1 or 2 players. We get Lebron he still needs a supporting cast and i just think the cavs are built to win this year and next and then they can rebuild again with cap space they have. Only reason i think Lebron leaves that is to become a billionaire which would happen in NY in probably 6-8 years or maybe less.

People are going to be sorry if we let go of Lee for nothing. I don’t pay him to much, the max i give him is $10M a year but really his worth is 8-9M. I rather use the rest of the money to either use Eddy + that $ in some kind of trade. Or use that space to sign some more talent, what every good championship team needs some good role players.

Mos tof what you sya make perfect sense to me, We surely don’t need Max paid complimentary players!

One of our biggest problems as you pointed out is that real plan for getting a good supporting cast.

Our biggest problem is our current coach and that probably attributed a lot to the last pt.

You had to make Tommy and DVJ cry starting off huh?

Wouldn’t it be nice in a idealistic world, if the GM told Lee, that they are prepared to offer him 5.5M for his improvement on offense and $5.50 for his digression on defense? Then tell him he has the remaining games to prove that he earn 11M by bringing up one of the two!

Until then , we’re gonna be about as sorry seeing Lee go and Lee does seeing all the opposing players go by him in the paint.

I agree w/half of your statement. If this team even wants to be the least bit competitive next year, we will need a decent big man as you alluded to. This will allow players to move back to their natural positions, and perhaps open things up more for Gallo.

I disagree with the notion of people thinking Kevin Durant is going anywhere. First of all, he still has options left on his rookie contract and you’re a fool if you think OKC isn’t picking them up. Secondly, he will get so much praise for turning OKC into a winning franchise along with Westbrook and what would seemingly be a lottery team w/o those two guys.

Why would you want to sign an almost 30 year old, injury plagued PG in Tony Parker but not want to sign Chris Bosh. Parker is what he is in my eyes. Chris Bosh never had a great side kick in TOR. Maybe we can get him this year and sign Melo next year.

“But why hasn’t the guy put it all together in Toronto over the past few years? Why can’t he lead them to the top 4 of the conference?”

Interesting point. But Bosh has led his team to the playoffs on multiple occasions. Lee, a TKB favorite . . .not so much.

Bosh has never had any help in Toronto since Vincesanity left and even this year Hedo looks like a shell of what he was in Orlando playing off of Howard.

I love the fact that Bosh is calling out his teamates though. That is what a leader does. I used to kill Crawford on his blog, and Lee on every blog for not being vocal enough or holding their teamates accountable. If Bosh was a Knick with a talented wing player beside him I think people would see just how good he really is.

I’m actually talking myself into believing a Rudy Gay/Bosh summer won’t be a complete disaster if we have enough cap space to add Camby or Felton as well . . .

For all you David Lee Lovers there i actually a legitmate way to keep Lee while also signig two other stars. I am not a Lee fanatic since I think he lacks defensive presence but If we could keep him without compromising a plan to get better players I would do it. Basically Curry makes the salary that Lee wants around 11 mill per. Curry is the reason the Knicks dont have the money to resign Lee. There is no question that Lee is more valuable a player than Chandler. I am not a big fan of Chandler fan and believe he is WAY overrated. I would sacrifice chandler by packaging him with Curry’s expiring contract maybe to Mini for cap space and possibly the rights to that spanish Kid Rubio. With Curry and Chandler gone we would have the money to keep Lee for 10 or 11 per while also moving foward with the original plan. But the Knicks would not do this because CHANDLer is the next Jordan and we could not dream of letting him go.

Horrible trade. Tyson Chandler, my God. Lee to get a great player or a high draft for example, who knows, but a Tyson Chandler and Diaw? completely unconvincing to me.
If Toronto wants to do it, S&T Lee for Bosh, which could happen should they stay out of the playoffs, difficult to see a team with a decento roster like that falling behind. I’ve said a million times, they put way too much stock in Turkoglu, and that really hurt their chances.

“People are going to be sorry if we let go of Lee for nothing. I don’t pay him to much, the max i give him is $10M a year but really his worth is 8-9M.”

Seroiusly, 10 mil/year is not going to be enough to keep Lee and I really believe that Walsh envisions Gallo as his PF of the future. So unless Lee magically transforms himself into a legit center, he has not future here unless it is to back up Gallo. And you don’t pay a guy 12 mil/year to be a backup.

Give me Bosh, Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson with a few more solid bench players and this team would be just fine. Re-sign Sergio as a backup PG, bring Bill Walker back, re-sign Eddie House if he wants to come back. Luke Ridnour and Marcus Camby should be top targets.

Does Bosh block shots? I dont remember hearing about how he guards the paint?

If we did get LeBron we’d need role people like Sideshow Bob (Varejow) who is an irritant but hustles the whole game and can make some inside shots when open. LBJ is not going to settle for no defense form his guys, thats why if LBJ comes DAntoni’s days are numbered unless they get a DCoordinator

I know its seems like the cake is for LBJ, who I dont think is leaving, so dont spend the money just to spend it. Get some guys cheap and make the team competitive for a possible playoff run and next year go after the other elites available Melo, KD, and whomever else

Bosh Blows

D Lee is not coming back. He’s done here. It’s over. Time for a new group. The pwoers that beknow this-
I think Gallo might be bye-bye too. No lift- he’s fried. That’s going to be a hard trade for D’antoni to swallow. We’ll see-
Ive waited this long..I can wait another year- REMEMBER,FA & RFA players like to use the Knicks as a ploy to get what they want from other teams. So don’t expect to much. Or be happily suprised if something great does happen.
Lebron James is not coming here. He’s got money,he’s own land,he has successful busineses,global fame …you know what he wants? He wants to be Obama.He wants to be John Glenn,He wants to be Bill Bradley.
He wants to be Governor of Ohio. He wants highways and schools named after him. Coming to NY would not get him that. He’s a fan,but its all about Ohio. DW & MD’A are goingto get young,quick,long and smart. And remember there’s the European market and info on players we don’tknow about- so hold on folks and as DVJ writes – “be patient”. Hey maybe The Knicks will win 35..MAYBE.

“There is no question that Lee is more valuable a player than Chandler.”

They play different positions.

” I am not a Lee fanatic since I think he lacks defensive presence ”

How do you reconcile that point with your first point above.

” I would sacrifice chandler by packaging him with Curry’s expiring contract maybe to Mini for cap space and possibly the rights to that spanish Kid Rubio.”

If Chandler is as overrated as you say why would Minn trade their PG of the future and sacrifice cap space to trade for him AND Curry. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Not to kill the dream but as I said above Gallo and Lee essentially play the same position. IMO it makes no sens to sign Lee for over 8 mil unless he magically transforms himself into a legitimate starting center.

well if we get bosh, we’d prb have to sign and trade lee to toronto to get him, no wayyyyy we can afford bosh n lee next season….

i think i’d take:
lebron
chandler
gallo
diaw
chandler

shoot if d’antoni can use a bigg lineup w/ mcgrady running the point, he surely can run it w/ lebron….lebron could easily avg a triple double on the right team, in the right system, w/ the ball in his hands…

David Lee is gone…bye-bye.

it’s over

he’s part of the losing culture.They just won’t say it.
They gave him money this year as a reward for keeping his mouth shut all these years.

Agreed, having the correct cast is a must. Many propose to form them through 2nd rounders, vet mins and + 2 max, but I’m not completely sold on that.
Thing is, since we don’t know we may happen to the cap next year due to the CBA alterations, the risk Donnie took, I suspect, is to play his hand this upcoming summer straight up. In any case, Durant will be an RFA and OKC will payup, as a matter of fact, the kid’s repeatedly asked for a new contract already. We don’t know if Carmelo’s leaving Denver, and I really don’t see Parker leaving SA. In any case, imo, EC’s contract should be used to address our PG issues. The offseason should be about getting big men on this team, plus any max guy available.
But since the money’s tight we won’t know what’ll happen until the draft.

Agreed, big men is a necessity as is the PG in PG guided system. But the thing about Will, if he doesn’t improve his handle, his 3 pointer and works on the ball IQ, he can’t really be a successful SG in this league, that’s why a kid like Gay could be useful should James refuse the Knicks, he’s younger, scores more, is smarter, and could pair up well with Will playing at the 3.
On the other hand, I don’t really see Gallo developing better as a SF. His size makes him just fine for a PF. He’ll have the perimeter shot, and with work, he can have the speed and ability to cut through when he wants to. Imo, Gallo’s much more fit for the 4 than Will is in this system.

That’s what I meant, Lee in a S&T for Bosh.
Lebron already has enough triple doubles, and in this system, he’ll probably get’em without running the team. Lee’s already averaging almos 4 assists per game.
James can’t be a PG, he needs a facilitator, simple. If you’re to have a go to guy, you need to have him either open when needed, or just give him the ball to create his own shot.

Lee should only be used for a S&T for a guy like Bosh or to get a high draft pick, take your choice, nothing more. EC’s contract should either be used to fill our needs at the PG (there’s a bunch of teams just eager to get rid of big contracts) or to get young assets + draft picks + hard contract. For me, Lee’s not worth the money he’ll demand this upcoming summer, I don’t even buy that’ll make an NY discount, and final but most important, he’s an incomplete player, who lost all sense of defense, and no matter how many argue that with a bigger guy at the 5, he’ll still don’t know how to play D, it’s just a matter of wathcing how he handles himslef in the paint and perimeter, no clue, imho.
Regrettable for DW, he’s all in, and I think he knows it, either he comes out with a game changer on his hands or he’ll build another Pacers for about 6 years, which means a perennial 2nd round playoff team with some runs for the conference.
If Mike D runs, it’ll just show many what we’ve already suspected: that the guy just doesn’t know how to win without star and his lack of winning attitude, leadership, and integrity.
In any case, good luck to us all.

Wow, show me your plan to afford those 3 first names you mentioned, and if you really want House as a back up PG, you should really watch some game tapes. Imho, he’s Chuckett’s clone, only in a different position. And why have 3 PG’s when you have Toney D to give a chance?

“He wants to be Obama.He wants to be John Glenn,He wants to be Bill Bradley. He wants to be Governor of Ohio. He wants highways and schools named after him. Coming to NY would not get him that.”

Never thought of it in quite those terms, but its a concept that can stand against the worlds biggest stage concept. Reed, Frazier, Patrick, Oaktree, Tarkenton, Namath, Taylor, Simms, Reggie, Jeter, Rivera, Seaver, Harrelson… None of them went from being icon to ruler except Bradley… and even he had to go to Jersey to do it. Your right, he can be a legend here, but no bigger than Taylor or Frazier or Jeter. If he stays in Cleveland, he’ll be Pharoah… with his name written on every wall and every tablet. Good post.

The best scenario would obviously be if Lebron signed with the Knicks along with Bosh or Amare.

PG: Douglas/S-Rod
SG: Walker/McGrady
SF: LeBron
PF: Gallo/Chandler
C: Bosh/Amare

If that scenario doesn’t work, I would be thrilled if Johnson and Bosh/Amare signed here. I would even be okay with a Gay/Bosh combo.

PG: Douglas/McGrady
SG: Johnson
SF: Walker/Chandler
PF: Gallo
C: Bosh/Amare

The one scenario I will NOT be okay with is if we resign Lee along with Johnson or Gay. Lee should not be considered a major piece.

Why would you not want Bosh from ages 26-31? Sounds like the prime of a big man’s career. I think that the fact that he’s a big man validates the fact that he may be a little less than a max talent player. But how many 6’10 PFs just become available in there prime?

I think the reason Toronto has failed to make such an impact is because of the horrible mix of management decisions and bad luck that the team has endured. I mean, since Bosh was drafted, the Raptors have:

Drafted Rafael Araujo – #8 overall – bust
Gave away Vince Carter for nothing (two guys with the last name Williams and some late first rounders)
Drafted Joey Graham – bust
Drafted Charlie Villanueva – later flipped for TJ Ford
Signed Jose Calderon out of Europe (what? a good move?)
Drafted Andrea Bargnani #1 overall
Turned TJ Ford into Jermaine O’Neils broken body
Turned Jermaine O’Neils broken body into Shawn Marion
Turned Shawn Marion into – well, he got released
Signed Hedo Turkoglu, who has a freakishly similar skill set to Bargnani, to a long term contract
Drafted Demar Derozan (solid move #2 in 5 years)

So, since drafting Bosh, they botched every draft until this year, gave away the biggest star in franchise history in his prime for no usable players, and there only good move – plucking Calderon from obscurity – backfired when they gave him a huge extension only to see him loose his starting job and regress as a player. I mean, there team now is Bosh, the 2nd and 3rd best players are clones of each other from different european countries, the shooting guard is a rookie and the point guard spot has been up in the air all season. All the while, the GM is trying to present this team as a “win now, please stay here Mr. Bosh” team.

And they are still in the playoffs. I mean, you put Bosh on this team right now and I think we are higher than the 7 seed.

The reason why bosh hasn’t been able to ‘put it together’ in toronto has nothing to do with him as a player. no big man can ‘lead’ a team to contention by himself. You need that talent to be complemented on the perimeter. I still liken bosh’s situation to that of Garnett’s; pre-boston.

Where do I start with your comments. First, I do believe Chandler is overrated but I think im in the minority in that opinion thats what being overrated means. It means the majority rate u higher than you actually are. So yes I believe a team would bit on chandler believing like the knicks do that hes actually a star. Furthermore, if you fail to remember there was a deal on the table to trade up in last years draft to snag rubio or curry but the Knicks rejected it because they would have had to give up chandler. So his value might be higher than Lee even though he is not as good a player. Secondly, simply because I say Lee is a better player than Chandler does not mean Lee is a great player it simply means he his better than Chandler. Thirdly, since when has Gallo proven to you that he can play PF he can barely survive at SF the kid has no low post moves and needs to develope signifcant bulk to play the position. s as of now Gallo plays Chandler position not Lee’s. Fourth, Rubio does not want to be in Minny or he would be there already. He is not the point guard of the future if johnny flynn or sessions have anything to say about it.
Hey I would be satisfed if the knicks got rid of Chandler and Lee since they both are part of a lossing culture. I was simply making the point that the Knicks could keep Lee by sacrificing Chandler.

Valid points…Only problem is Durant’s staying put. He’s already said he wants to stay in OKC. He really doesn’t want the Broadway stage (at least for now). But I do agree with not overspending on mid tier FA’s just to “DO SOMETHING”. That’s what got us in this mess. I’m not too big on the Joe Johnson thing, not at the numbers he’s gonna want. Depending on how Tony Douglas looks these last few weeks, I’d actually be OK with Rudy Gay, Ty Thomas and Bosh, BUT, at reasonable numbers..I think it’s about upgrading the overall roster. We’ll have the ability to do that.

Agreed

Wow..never really looked at it like that..Good post..

a rudy/bosh summer would not be bad at all.

Tony Douglas
Rudy Gay
Danillo Gallinari
Chris Bosh
Marcus Camby

Walker/Chandler/Sergio. 3 high energy players off the bench. Thats a good look. Then whatever we can muster up with the Curry contract.. Maybe a PG upgrade?

It’s really not Lebron or Bust… We just need to spend wisely on pieces that we need.

You keep talking about guys who were part of “the losing culture.”

Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph were part of the “losing culture.” Now they’re both winning pieces in winning cultures.

You remind me of Senator Kelly from X-Men, trying to kill off every mutant.

There are a lot of factors that go into creating a winning culture. Victimizing every player that was on the roster pre-d’antoni is ignorant.

Co-Sign

granger should be lebrons agent

I think Bosh is better than Lee, but I’m not sure the difference between them is as large as the likely difference in their salaries. Plus, if do get Bosh, we still need a C.

Relax everyone we are getting Lebron,like someone said here he comes here he’s has more worldwide appeal along with a cable channel to make it happen and he will become a billionare,it is an easy sell believe me.After Lebron is the question.Keeping Lee is going to be the hardest thing to decide but it might be pretty easy if Lee demands too much either way we match and trade him even if he has to sign for a little over ten,Bosh is a softie on defense that’s why he’s not a winner,I had him in vegas one night and he was softer than charmin ,he did gain some weight this year but I really don’t like him.The guys talked here I like is Rudy Gay and Melo and Durant ,,I would add Granger to that list if we could pry him away from Indy.I don’t want Johnson,Amare or Softie Bosh here.If I add an old dude it would be Camby which is what the doctor ordered.Getting Rubio would still be in my sites at the first opportunity to make it happen.Lee has to be signed if nothing else he’s a great trade chip.Lebron,Gay and Lee for starters and Durant or Melo for dressing.We get center in 2011 draft.
2010 Team
PG-Douglas/S-Rod with eyes on Rubio trade for I’ll Will
SG-Lebron,TMac.I’ll Will
SF-Gay,Lebron,Gallo,Tmac,I’ll Will
Pf-Lee,Gallo,Will
C-Camby,Curry,Bender,Lee ,2010,2011 draft pick answer
Championships to Follow