The back and forth of the Knicks’ backcourt has been dizzying at times this season. But over the last week and a half, the team has handed the reins over to Toney Douglas. And so far, he hasn’t let them go.
Via the NY Post:
“The do-you-believe-miracles win in Dallas Saturday night begs the next question: Do you believe in rookie Toney Douglas as the Knicks’ point guard of the future?
“Coach Mike D’Antoni did not believe as recently as nine days ago, but now the rookie out of Florida State is the new flavor of the month as the Knicks point-guard carousel goes ’round and ’round.
“He was improving the whole time but you go with your big lineup, you go with gut instincts,” D’Antoni said. “Maybe if I went with him earlier, it wouldn’t have worked out.”
Or maybe it would have worked out.
But does anybody really think that TD would have been the big difference between another losing season and a playoff campaign? I am hard pressed to argue that, no matter how much I want to.
I’ve never understood a coach’s hesitation in playing rookies for a team that is headed for the lottery. I kicked and screamed for Douglas and Jordan Hill to get burn after the team’s play in December proved to be a month-long mirage rather than a sign of things to come.
But I am not going to spit off at the mouth about how dumb Mike D is, about how poorly he manages and knows his team, about how his reluctance to give up on Duhon might have cost us a playoff run.
Because I have no idea how Douglas has been improving in practice. I have no idea what type of work TD has put in over the last 6 months to step his game up.
But I do know that he is playing well right now. And I know that I want him to be the starting PG every game for the rest of the year.
I just pray to the holiest of holies hope he can keep his improved play up and show the team and the fans that PG is not a position of need for a team with holes all over the floor.
The guy did not look particularly sharp (or at best was inconsistent) in spotty minutes for most of the year. He’s young so that not surprising. I am glad for this though, we have tanked so badly this season that everyone on the bench is getting a significant evaluation. Hopefully TD finished strong and gives us an additional option going into next year. Gotta like what you’re seeing so far…
But of course, let me state half of the posts that will follow…D’Antoni is an asshole, everyone knows TD is the awesomest and should have started from day one…
“But of course, let me state half of the posts that will follow…D’Antoni is an asshole, everyone knows TD is the awesomest and should have started from day one…”
Funny.
I don’t know who was asking for him to start from day one, but I wasn’t one of them. I wasn’t convinced (still not) he was even a point guard. He never averaged more than 3 assists in 5 years of college, but he was the only player who played defense like his career depended on it whenever he stepped foot on the court. That alone (on a team that couldn’t stop a snail from getting into the pain for a layup) justified him getting an opportunity to play. As much as _’antoni’s supporters want to back him up no matter what he does, there is a lot of gray area between rookies “starting from day one” and getting consistent spot duty on a terrible team.
_’antoni has finally realized that “energy and effort is contagious” and that “lack of effort is contagious” after ho many years of coaching?
I don’t know about you, but I wasn’t expecting a coach to be doing so much learning on the job for the kind of coin he’s earning.
excuse me, didn’t meaning to say earning, that should read:
…or the kind of coin he’s collecting.
ridiculous. this is not about td as the pg of the future. this is about a coach of a team getting the most out of his roster and making players better and add value to the team. d’an AND his staff seem incapable of doing this. the reason stars ‘love’ d’an is because he is a stars coach who let’s them dominate him because he can’t coach! what 1 player has he gotten the ‘most’ out of. none. who has he inspired to be a better player. none. he has not shown any ability to make players more confident. we wish td the best because we believe in him. let’s hope d’an can do the same! remember, clyde always says that red always was telling him how good he was.
your ridiculous
” what 1 player has he gotten the ‘most’ out of. none.”
eddie house
steve nash
amare stoudemire
Quinten Richardson (on the suns moreso)
Chandler
Jared Jeffries
Raja Bell
Shaun Marion (or is it Shawn)
Gallo
I imagine there are some others from sun days that I am not remembering.
Wait, wait, you’re saying he’s respnsable for Gallo’s high flying performances of lately? Those intense 15-20 touches per game? Hmm, didn’t know. Outstanding.
What about Jeffries? He taught him how to defend? Mike D’s the one who turned into Mr. intagibles and the team’s defensive expert? He would also be the one to make him take al those unnecessary 3′s he thought he could make….
Food for thought
qrich, are u kidding me. ehouse is as wild now as ever. u want to say chandler. i say this. chandler is as good as johnson and that’s what d’an should say and inspire. but u know d’an is hoping for joe johnson to come here because he’s a star. u say gallo. did u hear d’an on his show pointing out all the negatives on gallo and what he needs to ‘work on’. that is impatience, not inspiration. fact is d’an should point out all the positives and tell people to relax and let him continue to mature-this is his first full season stateside. i can go on with the rest of your names. the point is that d’an always is shuffling his starter because he has not shown the ability to meld them together! and by the way, nash made d’an and not the other way around.
The thing that really gets to me, is that, I think, the guy just doesn’t have clarity on how he wants his guys to develop. For example, there are certain things Gallo is to work on specifically if he is to play as a good PF, which imho he can. As far as this season goes, D’antoni has completely misused someone who was once seen as the future and cornerstone of this franchise.
One of the reasons I hope a star gets here is because greatness make the rest of his squad play to different standards, triple their efforts as a team, which is something Gallo really needs right now, because his coach isn’t really looking to get all that he can from him.
silent jay, i agree. d’an just can’t ‘massage’ the situation to get the best out of it. my fear is he is only good with stars because he really depends on them to lead the orgn. why he keeps a short bench. but coaches do matter and need to make good on court, in game decisions, something that appears to be very lacking with the current staff.
eddie house – he played much better in Boston with a more complete and disciplined game while playing much better defensively.
steve nash – LOL yea, ok. He was already a great point guard before he ever met _’antoni. Experience and age wouldn’t have anything to do with his development right? I’ll admit running more with more possessions did play to his strengths and give his game more freedom to blossom. However, his defense was ridiculously terrible for someone with such quick feet.
amare stoudemire – terrible example. He has all the tools to be a great defensive player, under _’antoni he never scratched the surface of that potential.
Quinten Richardson (on the suns moreso) – giving a player the green light to shoot gives that player confidence to make shots, but it doesn’t teach a player the difference between a good shot and a bad shot (or as Tommy so eloquently defines as a turnover).
Chandler – plays are rarely run for him, earlier in the season he settled for the “green lit” 3 point jumpshots in _’antoni’s offense if he was hurt (which some have suggested) I think he was playing too many minutes early on.
Jared Jeffries – he was already the player we saw this season he was just hurt most of his tenure here. He started launching 3′s (wonder why?) which he actually shot a terrible percentage and connected better earlier in his career. See green light theory above for Q-Rich, we saw Jeffries launch unnecessary 3′s at the end of games (good shot vs. bad shot).
Raja Bell – was always a tough defender, it’s what made him stick in the league in the 1st place. Playing with Nash will do wonders for an average players offense btw which can be said for anyone _’antoni had in Phoenix.
Shaun Marion (or is it Shawn) – his production decreasing in Miami and Toronto (where he still played pretty well) probably had more to do with not playing with Nash. He’s 32 in Dallas with a different role now.
Gallo – see Chandler.
HaS, right with you. i would love to hear what mark jackson and avery johnson would say to the following: offer your decisions if you had been with the knicks on their draft and your preferences at that spot on draft night. who would you have taken. on their trades, and the decsions surrounding their poisons ( i will not mention names). and their use of the roster that has been in place. the point is, good team or bad, coach d’an does not seem to press the right buttons time and time again. i wonder how the alternative would have used their trigger.
Like you and most of us fans, I want to believe in Toney Douglas. To date that belief is based on faith alone and not fact. D’Antoni’s beliefs about his players is based on facts ascertained at practice and in actual game situations. When he says Toney is learning, he testifies to facts not faith. Let us hope Toney evolves into a successful NBA player. Same with Jordan Hill. Why not?
Even if Douglas is our PG of the future (doubtful) Knicks still need a backup PG and combo gaurd next year.
Along with a SG, a PF and C, but hey, no worries, the free agency will be good to us.
I for one am hopeful that Toney Douglas is the answer at pg for this team going forward. He’s good. I saw him play some at Florida St. and on television and there he was the man his team depended on. Let him grow into the position. These last 20games, if that many left, because they will be valuable experience. That’s all he reall needs.
its really to late now to say what could have/should have/would have happened. did I want tony and jordan to get more minutes? YES. but spilt milk is not worth crying over.
for some reason RIGHT NOW our young core suddenly is looking really bright, despite giving up J Hill.
Bill Walker is playing like J R Smith without Rap-Star-Syndrome. He can shoot the 3, he can get to the basket, and unlike smith he doesnt seem like a court-diva.
Gallo despite inconsistent play is still averaging 14 pts a game and has pleasant surprised us(or at least me) with his ability to defend. And i can’t count how many times i’ve heard “if you pair this guy with a superstar, the sky is the limit” most recently from brent barry.
Chandler has been the same raging bull that i saw kicking up dirt last year. he really just continues to get better and better. and i would have loved to see what his game would be like had he not been rehabbing all of last summer. he is only going to get better and better. it breaks my heart to say it, but if it has to be chandler or gallo to get traded for a pg or c, i really hope they keep will.
and then of course TD. one and a half solid games is hard to base a decision on, but it gives me hope. the kid plays hard d the whole time he’s on the floor and he has proven he can flat out score. again, im not gonna call him john starks just yet, but i hope mike d lets him start at the pg for the rest of the season so we can see what we really have on our hands.
maybe Mike D kept him buried so deep on the bench that he made himself a diamond. [get it... haha yea, ill laugh at my own joke]
then of course sergio and tmac… if serge can keep himself under control, rather than spin out of it, he’s a great backup pg. and if tmac can last through the rest of the season, and work on his conditioning this offseason, and “GET HIS LEGS BACK UNDER HIM” [i hate that term so much.] then we could have a serviceable vet in him.
The point is, we suddenly have the ‘young core’ that i didn’t think we had as little as two weeks ago. and that may have improved our chances of attracting some big dogs in the offseason that want to win.
Walker had one game where his 3′s were falling, so you can’t get excited. Yes, the guy’s really intense and brings it every game, plus he’s got a really cheap option, so it’s worth the consideration. The same goes to Douglas. He’s intense, has great D and hustle, and if he keeps starting we’ll get the chance to make a fair evaluation. In my eyes, I just hope he can be a really good backup because in a system that’s 100% PG guided efforts must be made to go out there and find a great PG. Rushing to judgment is a mistake, so let’s give them time to settle in. After all, next season should be a compltely different environment.
T-Mac is another situation. He has to make that transition the older players make (specially after injuries), where they have to adjust their game to their limited bodies. In his case, working on his 3′s, passing, choosing when to penetrate, etc. He still seems weak to me, so it’ll be DW’s decision if he wants to keep him or not.
Besides, TD has a bunch if games to show ih he’s got the vision to be a PG or if he’s better off as a combo one
Bill Walker is shooting 448% from behind the arch throughout his 11 games as a knick. while that isnt exactly the largest sample, i wasnt calling him a good 3 point shooter based on saturday’s game alone.
and i agree with you 100% on tmac
That’s why both Walker and TD need to keep high minutes until the end of the season, they have to settle in with “the system” and gain perspective on whether he can actually run the team or if he’s better coming off the bench nexr season.
Personally, DW should make a run at high rated PG in a deal involving DW’s cintract.
“But I am not going to spit off at the mouth about how dumb Mike D is, about how poorly he manages and knows his team”
Of course you won’t.
“But does anybody really think that TD would have been the big difference between another losing season and a playoff campaign?”
That isn’t the point.
Nop, the point is to questio TD wasn’t an option when Duhon “the vet” was just making an ass out of himself on this court so D’antoni tried with Hughes and Nate, but not Douglas.
Now that the season’s over and there’s no pressure, let’s kick up the kid’s minutes.
That’s the point. The kid needed to learn right off the gate. In any case, at least he’s playing now.
He might be our backup point guard of the future.
We probably wouldn’t have been a playoff team if TD had played more, but we wouldn’t be sitting here in mid-March wondering if he was part of our future either. He said he wasn’t scared of Kidd, and he acted like it. He has skills, he has confidence. NO ONE leaves college with a complete game. Everyone improves. So either he was going to improve, or his career would be three and out. But he was Defensive player of the year, and leading scorer on his team. It doesn’t mean he’s a pg for this system, but it does mean he needed to be on the court. Reality: many of the best pg’s, (ex. Mark Price, Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Lenny Wilkins) never won championships. But they were all different, and were great guards. None of Jordan’s pg’s are going to the Hall of Fame. A champion pg, has to have a skill set that fits in the framework of the team. There is no guarantee that any rookie pgs taken this year are gonna win a championship. What TD brings to the table in terms of skills, drive and coachability is all you can ask for at this point. He’s the pg of the future until we get a better one, ’cause we ain’t got one now.
This is not about the final record, it’s about developing. It’s not about how this team would’ve played with Hill and Douglas in and Duhon with Jeffries put.
All along, it was as simple as giving our youngest players the chance to play, gain experience and start developing and getting ready for the future.
Hill’s history now, so Douglas is the one that has to play and show everybody, but mostly himself if he can be a valuable piece, a role player, or nothing more than a backup piece who’s a last option and a trade asset.
I’m more of a football person but basketball is second. I grew up in Brooklyn playing basketball and love the game. Been a Knick fan for all my life, I’m 53.
But as far as developing talent the NBA is miles behind the NFL. The NFL has a systematic way to develop players, well the good teams do. The bad teams waste talent and let a lot of good young players go. The good teams snatch them up and turn tem into solid professionals or even once in a while stars.
The whole NBA system of player development, drafting and the lack of a minor league system has lead to what I think is some of the worst basketball I have ever seen.
When I saw Douglas in the summer leagues I said here is a guy who is a natural born leader and has the toughness to play in New York. He may never be a Steve Nash but he will do other things like defense and score, he’s fearless and has a football mentality which means he’s not afraid of the big guys.
I also saw a desire to become a point guard which is opposite of Nate. He wants to be a PG because he is smart and knows at 6’3″ that’s were his future lies.
The way to have developed him was to get him minutes early, slowly increase his minutes and put him in situations were he would excel. By now you would have seen a much bigger improvement if D’Baloney knew how to develop young players. It takes time and effort and a lot of hands on work. DLee did not do it by himself but he did put the time in. I think had the coaching staff handled this kid better he would have been further along. He has the desire and the work ethic.
I think over the off season this guy will be working very hard on what he has to do and will be much better and I can say the same for Sergio I see the same thing in him. No these guys will never be all stars but maybe they will. If they put the time in to get better at what they do and work on their weakness’s.
So yes I think Douglas can and will be our starting PG and Sergio as his backup. Will either be a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd, no but both still do not have a ring and much lesser point guards have one, some more than one and lead their teams to them.
Agreed!
I can’t even front like I didn’t think TD was just another combo guard but he is showing improvements . I once called him a watered down Fred Jones but has much more than that. Im not like some who already compare hm to Joe Dumars but I hope he does well enough so that the Knicks dont have to focus too much on a pg this sumer so that other needs can be met with the cap space and trade assets .