Douglas Different from the Rest

One of the main reasons I wanted TD to play before the season was lost was to see how he responded to that added pressure. When you’re out of it, you lift a weight of your back and you can play loosely knowing that you’re every move or mistake can change the course of a result.
I’m really glad the kid playing well, since I was able to watch him play in college I was all for him being a Knick, but to start jumping to conclusions or to say he’ll be the future starting PG of this team is too hasty.
Besides, the tought reality of being a Knick now and when the summer comes is that if you’re a player you’ve no idea if you’re staying or used as a trading asset.
I’d like for TD to stick around, it’s been a while since I’ve seen a player play such a tough and intense D as him, but I’d also wouldn’t be surprised if D’antoni either benched him during the start of next season or if DW’s plan is to trade him later on in the summer for a bigger player.

interesting series of tweets from CavsInsider

# Mike Brown very heated in huddle with LeBron after he didn’t get back because he was complaining about a no call. Pistons up 4. about 1 hours ago via web

# Pistons 56, Cavs 54 at halftime. LeBron working part time again, took just six shots, had just 5 pts.: http://bit.ly/ct4vIo

Lebron working Part Time? getting heated with the coach? Am I dreaming?

Toney Douglas is NOT Mardy Collins.

thats just crazy.

Douglas is a rookie of who has sat the bench so thee is pressure to perform no matter what. Still it would have been nice to see him get consistent minutes we would know by now if he was the answer at pg for the team. I’m looking forward to seeing him get some burn to see what he’s got

ouch! I think that’s a bad comparison. first of all Mardy Collins looked always lost on the court, he had a bit of the deer in headlights quality you don’t want in your PG. Second, he was not a hustler! The player I liken TD to is Charlie Ward. TD may have more offensive upside, speed and better slasher qualities than CW. But he reminds me of him in terms of his energy, defense, diving after loose balls and overall awareness. And Charlie could get hot on streaks..

but TD doesnt do the prayer thing after every game…haha.

Yeah it’s hard to say whether Toney Douglas will ever be good or willing to make plays for his teammates. But hopefully last night was a sign of things to follow.

Nonetheless, it’s fair to compare Douglas to Williams and Collins…they were nearly identical in terms of where they were taken in the draft and they were all drafted as “point guards” ….

that said, (and maybe I’m just guilty of giving recent history greater clout than the past) Toney Douglas sure looks like he has more upside. Williams was awkward, couldn’t shoot and wasn’t athletic. Collins hustled and was scrappy and was definitely a pass-first PG but he really wasn’t that good at it.

Douglas attacks the basket and he can finish pretty well around the rim. Plus he knows how to balance taking jumpers with driving. And it really surprised me to look at his stats and see how high his FG% and 3FG%. In my opinion, .487/.389 is pretty damn impressive for a player who has played as sporadically as he has. Sure, he’s got a little too much of a scorer’s mentality. Which is perhaps something the Knicks should nurture instead of forcing a pure point guard mentality on him.

And of course there’s his defense. Which I think we can all agree on is a strength.

So yeah, I don’t wanna go crazy over the things that Douglas and B. Walker are doing during meaningless miinutes…but shey’re showing what they’re capable of. Walker’s hops and Douglas’ scoring skills would make them good complements to players who could get them easy shots.

Generally agreed with the post – except for the part about being hard pressed to include TD in a deal with Bosh (who I believe Bosh is just what two or three years older than TD). I need that one explained to me – and I am not being sarcastic – how TD and Lee in a sign and trade would stand in your way of acquiring Bosh?? I am doing that deal right now and then twittering and texting it so Bron Bron can see. Plus, if Bron is coming here, he will have the final say on whether TD stays or go – same w/ Gallo and Chandler, the coach, which fans can attend the game or not, what time square will look like, what the city will look like, and so on and so on.

Did anyone listen to TKB tonight?

i wanted to see if they asked him if he thought he was ready to perform at the level he is now, earlier in the season. From what I saw, I didn’t think he was ready for 15-25 minutes a night. i thought it was good that MD didn’t want to have him develop under the garden spotlight before he was ready.

Many people here assume he could have been doing this all along. i wanted to see what he thought.

There are some similarities you can compare, but what has been given a small weight is the mention of their athleticism.
Frank and Mardy were very average athletes.
TD was the fastest recorded sprinter in the entire draft class (impressive since Collison, Jennings, Flynn, and Lawson were all in the same draft)
This has been on display for glimpses already so far, and it’s what allows him to explode past his man, get to the cup, play aggressive defense, and get tips/steals.
Also, I think it’s safe to say that he’s a threat from outside already, and that stands to improve in consistency.
I think we can accomplish any roster changes we need to via free agency and the expiring of Eddy Curry. We already got dragged around by Morey once, and this time we don’t need to give up so much to finally begin acquiring. Bosh is hating Toronto right now, and I can see LBJ for 16 mil and Bosh for 15 mil being agreeable for both players money-wise.
We can keep TD in addition to those 2 guys.
Now lets just hope that, aside from the money, that the basketball and lifestyle reasons also push them towards NY

They’ve shown that in these past games true. Like I’ve said before, I really wanna see TD here and see what he can do when the stakes are higher, not when the team’s completely flushed out of the playoffs. As many minutes as he’ll get now, next year there is, I think, an added pressure when you play, specially if you’re playing along top of the line ballers who expect to see you bring your best.
I’m not sold on Walker yet, but his contract is cheap and could have many uses if the guy turns out to be more consistent with his game.

You’d wanna see James’ reaction if they lose the finals. That’d be epic.

Does this coach declare you on his tax return?

If not, You have to be at least a deduction from common sense!

Dude, TD sat on the bench for 48 minutes most nights with a team doesn’t wasn’t ready for prime time period.

Starks, Oak, Mase? You really need to see a MD!

hahahahha… word we need to get back to that prayer circle… and tony i think plays better defense than ward .. Mardy collins never has or ever will look as good as t.d.. mardy got into 56 games !! his rookie year … If tony would have gotten have the looks mardy did that year …some of you’s would be speaking very differently with the kid.. but you know what i dont blame you , after all we are the current new york knicks.. Andwe fans think negative.. maybe to negative to the point we cant see a diamond even dough its right in front of us…

i totally understand your view about wanting to see how TD performs under pressure, but wouldn’t you have killed the coach if he had played TD and Hill early in the season and they cost the knicks some games due to their inexperience?

Even after th 1-9 start, i wanted to see the knicks try and make the playoffs. Which i thought got out of reach in late January.

When D’antoni’s coaching, you’ve no idea when you’re gonna get benched. We’ve known for a while now that this kid’s pretty much the best defender the team’s got, yet he didn’t play him.
He’s definitely trying to win the spot, but at this point in the season, the best he can do is just end the season on top of D’antoni’s favorite people, if not, he’ll return to the bench next season.
Imagine DW get’s creative and uses EC’s + (any player) to get a strong PG (I wont even speculate on names), Toney’s best shot is to come off the bench.
And there is that added pressure when you’re in the third month of the season where results are definitely important if you’re looking to get as much W’s as possible, the heat is really on, and that’s where you see what your players are made of.

Well you are under the opinion that the coach sucks, so you look at things through a biased lense. he has made plenty of mistake, but i am trying to be objective.

So from what you saw, TD was ready for 25 minutes a night during the first half of the season? he looked hesitant to me.

Its easy to say now that the playoffs were never a realistic goal, but i would have been pissed if TD and Hill got significant minutes before late January because they didn’t look ready.

I would have liked to see a lot more of TD in February. That falls on the coach.

My position this year was all about development. I knew what we’d see from Duhon and I was up for something different, which Nate or Hughes couldn’t bring either.
And yeah, Douglas showed dubious balling during the minutes he was given, but they were so sporadic that asking for consistent from a rookie who’d seen so little is just ridiculous.
While you see teams like the Bucks, GS, the Kings, they’re handing they keys to they’re young guys, mind you I get the fact they were top picks. But still, Douglas was the new kid, and his defense alone made him useful, it’d been a matter of time before he got rythms down as well as his dimes.
The same position went to Hill. I was all for letting him play as much as possible.

Of course he looked that way, but if there was ever a time for a rookie to make mistakes and look hesitant, it was then. Besides, Duhon and Hughes didn’t really convey confidence and security either, They’re playing was, for a lack of better adjectives, awful, horrible, unwatchable.

Totally fair.

i wanted to make the playoffs, while developing Wilson and gallo with PT. I thought Hill and TD could develop in practice and see more game time if the knicks got out of contention. i am very happy with what i have seen from Wilson and a little disappointed with gallo. But i am happy with Gallo’s defensive instincts and he has shown competitiveness.

So you’re saying that we had the players to contend but we didn’t get it done huh?

This is where some of ya just fall all over yourselves with faulty logic. Either the coach had the players or he didn’t! what was the expectation from this team this year realistically?

I don’t have it in for this coach just because I don’t like his system, (which I do not). I am grading him fairly. I NEVER expected this team to be a playoff team from the start. However, I expected this coach to play the young players to at elast see what pieces we should keep, trade and etc so we we do possibly get a star player, he would have other players to play with.

Playing TD after we are basically officially out of the playoffs race is something a good team would once they didn’t live up to expectation.

A bad team plays their young guns early even if you have to give them reduced minutes and ring them along a little slower.

Look at where we are now. The buzz about TD now is that he’s a keeper when we see him playing with no pressure and the team already near the end of the season. TD has fresh legs now! i want to see how this dude progress over a season and on this team we ALL should have seen this.

Develop in practice? No one plays defense on this team during the games. Developing in practice on our team is like saying they needed to play HORSE more often otherwise the Horses A-S-S won’t put them in the game.

That Knicks fanblog link is a great look at why Douglas and Collins are completely different. Statistically speaking they are not even close. And just observationally speaking I would say the same thing. Douglas has shown so much more skill and potential in these games then I ever remember seeing from Collins. Im not saying Douglas will definitely be a starting pg down the line, but he will be a solid NBA rotation player, at least a good 7th or 8th man. I like Douglas, I’m beginning to feel much more comfortable about our core group of players after watching these past few games. The open shots that Douglas has created for Gallo and the disciplined offense that he runs where he actually gets it to Chandler has helped energize them, and they look much better now.

Yeah, I get it. Personally, I thought this team could get maybe 4 or 5 W’s than last season, but after seeing them play, even in their best month (december), I thought my expectations were a bit too high so it’d be nice to bring in TD and Hill and just let’em do their thing, and at the same time move Gallo to the PF, in the sense of development.
But anyway, we are where we are, and TD’s doing his thing, but I’d love to see him do this at an earlier period, when Duhon was in a career suicide mission.

TD, Gallo, Chandler, and Walker. Thats all we should keep. How many times do we need to listen to Clyde point out Harrington’s “Matador D?” House can’t leave soon enough. And let’s all face it Tmac is done. Let him be someone else’s problem

Nah, man, I was just answering to the last part of his post. I was just looking to see them get 4 or 5 more W’s, but as far as I knew, and know, this coach isn’t able to bring out the best of what he’s got, hence the ridiculous standpoint, imho, from many to give him 2 year’s patience until he gets the right players.
That’s just wrong.

House is a better player and he surely had a role in Boston. Now that he’s back with Sir 7SOL, he’s like a kid on a sugar rush. House chucks up shots faster than RalpheAL. He has digressed on this team because their is no leadership on the floor or bench especially.

Let’s see how much House luvs this coach when he can’t get a decent contract later.

My patience will be as thin as 30 games (maybe less) before I bring the pitchforks if the results don’t come.

I hear ya and I wasn’t concerned about the Win-Loss record this year. I just wanted to see this team move in a better direction with a realistic eye on next year.

i wasn’t grading this coach on being a savior, i just wanted him to hold the players and himself accountable assignments on the floor.

This coach could take a lesson from Lawrence frank because at least he was a stand up coach to the very end. Although his team fell down. lol

if you mean ‘regressed’ I completely agree with you

seriously, who has a clear role with Mickey D? it puzzles me to no end how kneejerk his lineups, role distributions and game “strategies” are…

oh well, let’s give him a couple more years with some star players.. he may prove us all wrong (“us” the blinded DAntoni critics..)

lol It’s too late then. That’s just like Dolan keeping Isiah around after that disaster trial. isiah didn’t even attend or run the training camps and showed up late in a total LAME duck status. Every player on that team knew they had more power than Isiah so why should they listen to him.

Dolan had rocks in his head to think that year would end well. How much of a disaster do you need to see before you act? Somehow I think Dolan and Donnie is waiting for that Celine Dion Song from the Titanic to start while Donnie assures D’Antoni “I’ll NEVER Let Go”

Or maybe that’s just DVJ and Tommy Dee crying those words! lol

lol, Yep “Regressed”! That’s it! I’m firing my dog! Now he’ll just try to slip back upstairs and get in bed with my lady!

Maybe I better keep him employed on further thoughts.

doug been ready from the get.
just gotta wait an see what he becomes.

LMAO.
The only positive thing about having a moron like Dolan is that if the Knicks are completely lost without cap but having an awesome squad, the guy’s got no issues paying up the luxury tax.

This coach could take a lesson from a bunch of guys. If he wasn’t stubborn enough to get a quality defensive coordinator, I swear I’d cut him slack, but he’s just so moronic in so many ways, that in the end, it shows his lacking character, that IMO, is why he is’t a prime time, ring winning coach in my eyes.
It’s not all about luck and getting the perfect 6 or 7 players that have great defensive qualities as well as ofenssive ones, it’s also how much D or much offense you can show your team.
That is where, to me, Mike D just completely falls out.

Certainly contend for the playoffs. Thats where I am disappointed in the coach, but maybe I had too much faith in guys like Duhon (based on the first half of last season), Harrington, and Hugues. i wanted to see the knicks make the playoffs.

But to say that this coach can’t get a lot out of players is crazy.

Nash made the all-star team ONCE before teaming up with MD. He made careers for guys like Diaw, Barbossa and Bell. And he developed Amare into a star. he can win, just not with this group.

yo DOUG skies the limit
an your in nyc
make the best of it kid
use these games an develop what your lacking
we know u can take a game over an score.

get a few 20/10 games with W’s in those game
an u will be find.

LOL “unwatchable” .. perfect. +1

hey knicksbloggers, if you could have any PG play for the knicks next season who would it be? Availability, money is no issue but it must be a current player. Who would you pick..? just curious…

Occasionally mediocre players score a lot of points on bad teams, but they never score a lot of points efficiently. They do it with a high volume of shots. TD is scoring fairly efficiently. I think that means it’s almost certain he’s a pretty good player on both ends of the court. The real question is whether he can be a PG and specifically our PG of the future.

Depends. If we can get LBJ or Wade. I wouldn’t mind going in with TD (assuming he keeps up his good play). If we get Bosh, I would like to see an upgrade, like trading Lee for Harris (assuming the Nets get Wall).

If none of them, I want to see the knicks try to get Paul by taking on Okafore’s contract.

Not a huge Felton fan, unless we can get him for 5-6 mil per.

It all depends on the other parts.

Did larry Brown coach defense? How did he do with the knicks?

So wait, Bell got his defensive expertise from Mike D? Diaw was already a good defender and the only thing he got ouf of playing in his system is that he used him pretty much every position available (even as a PG and C) because the system is that flexible (I mean, we’ve all seen Will as a SG, SF and PF, for example). Imo, Diaw really showed his stuff in Charlotte, but he benefitted from playing every position, I’ll give you that much.
Nash was already a great player, and coming into a free flowing system of speedball that passed 100% through him and gave him more possessions than average certainly spiked his stats, not to mention the fact that he’s pure talent. D’antoni definitely benefited form having one of the most gifted PG’s this league has seen to be the floor general.
Strangely enough, Barbosa played a hell of a lot for a rookie under Mike D and the possessions alone helped him, plus the fact that he could shoot 3′s (which is a BIG part of the system).
Amare’s a great player from any angle you take. He got the ROY all by himself in Minny. In Phoenix he made his first all-star appearance, yes, but he benefited from the system. It’s sort of like Lee. He plays no D, but can do a hell of a lot more in clutch situations and score on a consistent basis.

Dude, Larry Brown was just being a Diva looking to be the new King of NY. His ego was soo big at that pt that he helped the Pistons lose their chance of winning another Ring by making himself the center of attention.

Even Larry Brown saw that Isiah was weakened by events under his watch.

Now a little humility has LB back to coaching. I think maybe D’Antoni may soon realize that his press coaching skills are not as good as his PHX press clippings.

I hear ya but now that you’ve stated this, don’t expect to get any Xmas cards from DVJ and Tommy Dee. Just saying!

I sure hope Healthcare reform passes because there should not be a limit for the amount of coverage you need.

Let’s hope we close that infamous donut hole too which means getting Lee out of here or making him play some defense.

Thing is with Lee. In any other team, they guy’d hustle a whole lot, that I can guarantee, but his offensive numbers would drop. He’d still get points and boards, but not all on bunches. Basically, he’d play organized, disciplined ball (sort of looking a reverse situation between House in Boston and House in NY)

Whoa, wait a second. Nash was a great player? We have different definitions of great then. He went from one time all-star to 2 TIME MVP. He went from very good in Dallas to Great in Pheonix.

They benefited from each other. a true symbiotic relationship. MD didn’t “make” him an MVP, but allowed him to flourish under his system. I think its wring to trivialize his effectiveness by chalking it up to increased possessions.

I am not saying that MD “made” them all good players. My argument is that he got a lot out of them. Diaw was not good in atlanta. Barbossa was a rookie who has not done too well since MD left. Q-Rich and House had his best years under MD.

MD doesn’t get a pass on these two years, but he has been successful building a team and I want to see what he does next year before I bury him.

So the players he had in NY had nothing to do with those 23 wins. It was because LB was being a diva.

So what coach would get THESE players to play defense?

a simple joke from a simple mind, couldn’t even respond to my comments.

The funny thing is that Toney is playing the same way he did since preseason. Now everyone thinks he is doing something he didn’t do earlier? I’ve said the same thing on other blogs since he was drafted. It’s just that everyone was so stuck in their ways saying “he can’t dribble” or “he is not pg material” or “he can’t handle” that they couldn’t comprehend. The guy scored 14, 20, 21 in three staright games, when the “PRESSURE” was on. Now mind you, if this kid is scoring like this and we’re losing wouldn’t you at least start him in one game and see what happens from there? Maybe him and Hughes in the starting lineup? That’s bad coaching and makes noe sense. So to say this kid didn’t play like this earlier is far from the truth. “Oh, well, his dribbling..” There was nothing wrong with his dribbling. The dude never showed one once of being scared from playing against competition in Sl, to playing against Rondo in preseason or handling the rock during the regular season. Was his passing Nash esque? No. Did he turnover the ball? yes, but how often? The dude didn’t have a game where you said “man. he was awful.” He hardly controlled the ball ecept when we played the Magic in orlando and toney had his first dunk in the NBA. So this “let’s not get to high on this guy and see ewhat he’s got” makes no sense because he was doing that from the jump. He just didn’t get any minutes. No one is saying he is going a great, but what you have to like is that even though might not score 20 something every game and be kidd every game but that defense is something he can control and every game no matter the competition u know he is going to bring it. How many 20 something u know is committed like that?

CJ Watson showed a lot of good things in the laker game the other day.. Also, TJ Ford in exchange for Eddy would be a nice PG tandem with TD.

great point on TJ. I’ve loved him since has days at Texas.

Sorry bro, didn’t read your post before, only saw X’s.
All right, with 2nd one you clarified it for me. I’ll admit that the system, under the right circumstances (and being led by a guy who’s benefiting so much that he’s becoming one of the best PG’s in the league at that time), certainly helped the other player accustom their talents for a better all around result. I think the case that could really reach out would be Barbosa, who isn’t really living up to his past showings. Amare, Nash, Johnson, I mean, what a team. Q-Rich definitely benefitted from free style shooting system, as well as house. They definitely fed off each other.
But me half way, Bells defensive strengths, as well as Diaw’s, was a complete benefit to Mike D, who’s never been known for being a defensive preacher.

Actually, Toney in camp assisted a lot more than score, and then sort of went back to the way he played in college, where he was more of a scorer than a facilitator. What the NBA’s done for him is help him find that spot where he can assist and score at the same time. Little by little the guy’s finding his true position. Believe me, I’d love to see the guy become a pure PG, where he can get, to just throw stats, 16 pts and 7 assist per. Of course, that’s just ridiculous projections based on what he’s done in these past games.
Remember, once D’antoni decides to throwback his “system” 100%, which it isn’t being done now, the PG is the man responsable to carry out the coache’s orders. Now you see the ball a lot in Lee’s hands as well, with the real thing, the PG is the complete driver and the one that makes things happen.

So it all comes down to the “he doesn’t have his horses” argument. Good defensive players play good defense. You need good players to win. LB won 23 games here and his is a HOFer.

I’m with you if we suck after 30 games next year, i will be right next to you with a picket. My fuse will be very short.

I guess what bothers me is that now everything is spun by most on this blog like MD is some total idiot that has no idea what he is doing. there is zero objectivity and the possibility that the coach has done something right is never even entertained.

Thats really why I was making my TD argument. Trying to even things up a bit. Give the coach the benefit of the doubt in that case.

And yeah, I was all about letting him play early on, because Duhon, Hughes, or Nate, weren’t cutting it, and they were given plenty of chances. TD deserved his. Rookie years are about trying to get your feet and making as many mistakes as you can so you can focus on polishing your games and flushing out, if possible, your flaws.

How about this: do you think that good shooters who are also smart and competitive, but are not great defenders can win in this system?

Next year really is gonna be a pressing one for him. He had a great team, and I admit he did great things with him. It has been argued whether or not the style he practiced left him without a ring or whether it was the injuries. In the end you never know.
And yes, here D’antoni’s had his team blown up a bunch so he’s had to improvise on the fly a lot, but there’s still some things about his way of playing (which is totally different from Phoenix) that I’m not comfortable with.
What I do know is watching Gallo get a bunch of touches is a must, and that Lee isn’t the only player that should get the majority of touches. If Chandler and Gallo saw more of the ball, and could learn to use those 3 guys together + TD, it’d be an indicator that he’s seeing the whole picture. Imo, Chandler, Gallo and Lee can play together if used correctly.
Let’s see, if the players come, if the right results come with them, and if Mike D goes back to pure speedball once again.

I agree that they can win, but they need the right mix. I like the philosophy of taking the first good look you get and constantly putting the defenders on their heels.

I like the foursome of DL, WC,DG and TD, but we need a lot more, but thats a conversation for another night.

Put it this way! A good coach would have all the veterans on the bench if they didn’t play defense or provide some leadership to the youths.

Remember the youth would be happy to play defense to get some PT to elevate their ability to earn more next contract.

A coach always has PT as a means to inspire. Players usually want to be coached so as long as they know that the coach is fair and lays down the law and stick to it.

Yup, if before the season ends it even becomes an issue.

lol. Yeah you go to bed and get your beauty sleep. You’re not gonna make any money using that noggin of yours.

You’ve watched 2 years of this crap and you still need to see more?

How many rings does this coach have that gives you so much faith?

Howe long did ya luv Duhon?

So how ya gonna sleep on your 1st luv?

I know, Don’t blame the coach! Got it!

Agree. But i noticed now after the philly and Dallas game they are giving toney the ball more often.

Hmm. Someone is buying into the hype I see.

I don’t “think” he is Mardy Collins either, but he is more Collins than he is Gary Payton.

And this line from Tommy bothered me “And to be clear about a possible sign and trade for Chris Bosh, I’d be hard-pressed to move TD. . . ”

Really? Hard pressed to move Douglas for Chris Bosh? Really?

Yet there was no problem with moving Hill, the former # 8 overall pick, for cap relief? Hard pressed just because TD can play some point (not a full time PG either?).

Did anybody here watch Douglas play in the summer league? I did, every game until he got hurt. The first thing he did when he was in was to take control and run the team. He instantly took the role of the point guard without hesitation.

He’s a tough smart kid with a good shot, he’s basically Charlie Ward with a shot.

He knows what he has to do to become a starting NBA PG. I know his type of person is going to be working out all off season on every facet of the game to make himself a starting NBA point guard.

All th other guys that were mentioned(Mardy Collins for instance) HAD the talent to be better than they were. For some reason whether it being laziness, stupidity or some personal demons they just never did it. And I am including Duhon who I think has a personal issue………

I don’t see those shortcomings in Douglas. I see an overachiever if anything. I see a player that would probably have been great with the Lakers and fitted in their triangle offense. I bet they wished they could have kept the pick. Is he that pure PG all coaches carve who can distribute the ball, break down defenses and shoot too…..never at a level that would make Larry Brown happy.

Maybe, just maybe good enough for the guy to become a starter and eventually an allstar. He’s not a truly gifted physical specimen but that can work in his favor as it did with Nash and Kidd. Neither Nash nor Kidd has great physically ability, they made themselves into who they are with hard work. Yes they have a knack for having great court vision but is that something you can learn?

As it is now I see Charlie Ward with a jump shot.

Agree with you on this one I had to read it twice to make sure that’s what he wrote. Td I like you but if u were holding up a bosh sign and trade that involves lee and no other player I would back both your bags. That would be a steal in my eyes. Bosh for lee and Doug?

“…but wouldn’t you have killed the coach if he had played TD and Hill early in the season and they cost the knicks some games due to their inexperience?”

No.

I’d take D-Will. CP3 might be flashier, but I prefer D-Will’s overall game. He’s big and strong @ 6-3 207, loves to attack the rim, excellent defender and I love that he’s played for a great coach in Jerry Sloan. He’s also not as ball dominant as CP3 is.

lmao!

yep. d-will is my favorite too. Has been since day one when everybody was gushing over CP3..

.maybe some day. just dreamin’