Recap: Suns alot Knicks Not so Much

Tmac is an A-hole for treating any young fan like that. That is why I appreciate the humble superstars in the NBA. When you get Big money at a young age it just pollutes your mind. I’m glad Amare said something about this. Tmac should be a man and apologize.

This reminds me of when I was working security for Kenyon Martin at an autograph signing in NJ. Two kids waited on a short line to get his autograph and Kenyon only wanted to sign one item per person. So he told the kids no when they wanted a second item signed. The line was so short that they got back on the line and waited again so they could get there second item signed and he told them NO again. I stepped up and told him that those kids are his fans and that they are here for him. He then was nice enough to sign them. It’s a shame that some of these NBA players don’t appreciate the gift that God gave them. They feel that they don’t owe anybody anything.

Antoine Walker made 120 million in his NBA career and he is broke now.
The Lord giveth and he taketh away
A men

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/20627942?source=rss_blogs_NBA

Kobe!!!!!

Yo T-Mac just doesn’t know himself. That’s probably why he can’t get out of the 1st round of the playoffs! T-Mac probably looked at Amare then and thought, “Just jumper higher!’

Can we get Pat Summit to coach the Knicks?

he sounds like a woman scorned, he’ll get over it.

Nine years ago? REALLY? Amar’e… Come on.

[...] TheKnicksBlog.com – Recap: Suns alot Knicks Not so Much [...]

So how does Gentry — a “D’antoni disciple” put a seven footer with little or no outside game into the Post and get such great results?

Didnt the “Coach” see a similar role for a defensive presence in the middle?

I saw very little of the “Stretch four” that this offense supposedly requires…

Unless you are tellingme Amar’e was playing the “3″ . which it did not look like.

LBJ you claim I am misrepresenting Knick fans point of view to prove my point. You couldn’t be more wrong. Here is just a sample of Knick cheerleading about this roster over the past week (and I am putting exact quotes so you can’t claim I’m skewing them in any way):

Tommy Dee: “By the way, anyone still clamoring for Lopez after Gallo’s last few games?”

Sabreschude: “Gallo will be better than DiRK! (IN TIME)”

Traps: “Gotta show some Cock love (pause). That kid’s gonna be our star.”

Pak14life: “Gallinari has so much heart. He will be a star. Perfect third option on a championship team next year (hopefully).In the future maybe even a secon option. I expect 17.5 pts and 6.5 rebs from him nxt year.”

Mucha and DVJ: Paraphrase: “I wouldn’t trade Gallo for Chris Paul”

Thefallen87: “Gallo is our man, if he can’t do it then no can.”

Arny: “And did anybody hear melo saying gallo is stepping into the “big time ” … ohhh man 2010 here we come !!!!”

JaymanJD: On Gallo’s improvement: “They cant play on the court together simply because they like the same spots on the court and chandler is a ball hog. If I had to choose one I think Gallo is younger and has more upside than Chandler. They should appease Gallo and trade Chandler with Curry’s contract and get value while they still can.”

Gonygony: “When and if LBJ comes, Gallo will be a fine second fiddle and TD will be a fine 3rd. Ny needs a few more vets and a few guys willing to do the dirty work and they will be fine.”

jgilch82: “Gallo is a matchup nightmare … he’s too tall for most for 3’s to defend … and too quick for 4’s to defend .. on the other end he needs a bit more weight to defend elite 4’s in the post .. yet he is GREAT at keeping his man with the ball in front of him .. which is why he doesnt get torched by getting beat off the dribble often”

Dwane T: “Games don’t matter now for the Knicks, but for a lot of the teams they are playing… like Denver… every game count’s. The pressure to win is not there like it would be if the Knicks were playoff bound, but every shot hit, every rebound pulled down, every pass made or stolen, etc., is made on an NBA court against NBA competition. Did TD get a pass for his points from Billups? No, he earned them. Did Gallo freeze up against Carmello? No he went head to head. Folks shouldn’t be so quick to discount the play of young guys playing for their futures.”

Totti: “I simply think gallo begins to show his potential. I think he was so angry to never get the ball that he was forced to change his attitude in a lot more selfish way. And it was the only thing to do. All the best is coming.”

Itzyung: “Jennings is faster and has better PG skills…Other than that Toney owns.”

Dwane T: “And if necessary, Douglas could go back to his college days and do 20 and five. He will do what is necessary to make his team win, even if its not using all of his talents every night… that’s what leaders do, set the example and fill in the gaps. Frazier is still our all time best, and Douglas in his rudimentary stage is probably the closest thing to him we’ve had.”

Oscar F: “Lee has actaully been playing good D as of lately . Check the game log . He has been getting more blocks this month.:”

Andanap 1001: “TD is a better fit as an off-guard (next to a guy like LeBron) than Jennings. And hes a better defender. Id rather have TD if i knew LBJ was on his way”

LBJ 2010: “I don’t understand what the harm is in fans getting excited over the promising young players on the roster. Just because the plan is to sign a superstar in July doesn’t mean Gallo, TD, and Chandler can’t be useful pieces (or even better) in the future. You don’t HAVE to throw cold water on everything, you know.”

Yes LBJ 2010 I do.

I could have posted DVJ’s rantings, could have gone back a few months to the crazy comparisons between Gallo and TD and Hill and superstars but that is not the point.

i am not twisting anything. For decades Knick fans overvalue the players on the roster and give managment excuses to continue to suck. They don’t demand that they draft a C because David Lee is an all-star center, they give them a pass on not drafting a PG because . . .well we have tony Douglas.

We trade away all of our draft picks but its ok . . .we have cap space.

So easily swayed.

And this “cheerleading” about the ROSTER?

We were talking about Gallinari’s huge POTENTIAL and the fact that Toney Douglas could be a starter in this league. Nobody’s cheerleading about the ROSTER.

*is

Fingers crossed. I can’t see it happening though.

Doesn’t the article imply he’s staying in LA?

Why come to a losing situation AND leave 8 million on the table?

SMH

You can uncross those fingers Mucha lol

No shots.

Why are you even a fan of the team? What is the point? I really don’t understand. You don’t like any aspect of the team, or the direction the team is going. All you do is complain about the fans who are encouraged by the young players on the roster, or the ones that are hopeful that we can land a star. It’s not mandatory to be a fan.

Again, all you are doing it taking isolated fans’ statements (most of which are merely being encouraged about the development of Gallo and Douglas) and using them to represent the thoughts of the entire fanbase.

And this is why Amare Stoudemire will NOT be in a Knicks uniform next season.

I look at Chris Bosh and David Lee and I see guys that are “team first”. I can’t say I believe the same is true for Amare, or Carlos Boozer. I think that’s why Bosh or Lee are the only real choices for Walsh and Co.

I think finger crossing would be related to this:

“He’s definitely in the mix,” one GM told me recently. “What if they don’t win it this year and what if he’s [ticked] off at Dr. Buss for not re-signing Phil Jackson or he’s sick of playing with whoever and he says, ‘You know what? I’m gonna go put on a New York Knick jersey.’ All of sudden he and Mike D’Antoni hook up in New York and they can talk some Italian.

“Don’t rule him out if LeBron says no to New York,” the GM said. ”

“There’s a greater chance he crosses the country and goes to New York than he crosses the hallway and goes to the Clippers,” one executive said. “He can use the Clippers all he wants, but he’s not going to the Clippers — unless he gets to pick his own coach and GM or something like that. I had no inkling that he would leave the Lakers last summer. Now, New York could be a legitimate option. I wouldn’t rule it out.”

However, I agree with you HaS – no shot Kobe leaves.

sorry for bold above, forgot to close my brackets…

Kobe wouldn’t dare use us or this coach for his pleasure like he did when Isiah was coaching here would he?

Let’s hope Kobe’s not a Playah! Maybe we can get Kobe and LBJ sow we see 7SOL not yield us a ring and then we can maybe decide if it’s the coach or system or both! Yo yo!

No problem! I thought you were just proud of being black!

Lee is not “team first” not with that defense. I would hate that dude if he were on my team, oh wait he already is. Can’t wait until he’s gone. If he’s here next year I will not watch them play.

Most Knicks fans rave about Gallinari’s POTENTIAL – why shouldn’t they? Even Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki like the kid. As a sophomore Peja Stojakovic averaged 11.9 points per game and Dirk Nowitzki averaged 17.5 points per game on a losing team. Danilo Gallinari and Brook Lopez are 21 years old man – you can’t expect them to lead the Knicks and the Nets to the playoffs! The fact that we like Gallinari’s game (considering that he’s only 21) – and to a certain extent Toney Douglas – doesn’t mean that we think the roster is good! Pure extrapolation.

High hopes and NO expectations.

Don’t worry man, I ain’t crazy.

How dare you like Gallo’s potential, Mucha. You should not think any positive about the organization.

Why would you choose that username?

As a constant reminder of arguably the worst draft pick in NBA history?

I am a fan, which is why I am so critical of the team.

And I do like certain aspects of the team.

I think Wilson Chandler is a very good young player who needs to work on his handle. I think Gallo has promise that he hasn’t lived up to yet (although I think he was the wrong choice) and I think D’Antoni was a good choice as coach (although he has things he needs to work on like defense and late game managment).

I think MSG is the greatest basketball arena in the US and it sickens me to see what Dolan has done to it.

My point has been that the fan base should rightfully be enraged but instead Gallo is the next Dirk, Tony Douglas is the future, and this summer we will sign the two best players in the game. Every year ends the same way.

If this were the Clippers or some small market team than fine. . . but shouldn’t Knick fans be smarter?

Maybe he’s just tired of being fed the spin of MSG promotion teams year after year for 11 miserable seasons?

Production > Potential.

No shots.

Liking a player’s potential but saying you wouldn’t dare trade him for anyone not named Lebron or Wade are two completely different things

That is the problem. . . Knick fans fall in love with players, as opposed to the team, and it allows managment to keep delivering a sub mediocre product with David Lee as a marketing ploy.

Honestly this whole thing needs to be blown up.

Who said anything about MSG’s spin? I, along with many others I’m sure, haven’t bought into any of their bullshit, yet I like Gallo’s game and think he has really nice potential based on watching him play. Just because you think positively about some of the team’s pieces doesn’t automatically make you a Garden shill.

We’re just going in circles. Once again, you are misrepresenting the MAJORITY of Knicks fans with your generalizations. What was it, 2-3 fans who said they would’nt trade Gallo for Chris Paul?

And in case you haven’t noticed, they ARE blowing the whole thing up. How much further can you blow up an organization that has only 4 players under contract heading into the summer?

“My point has been that the fan base should rightfully be enraged but instead Gallo is the next Dirk, Tony Douglas is the future”

Patently false. You continue to take the comments of a few fans and blow them up as representing the entire fan base just to make you feel like your position is validated.

I like Gallinari and I think he has the chance to be a very good player, but if New Orleans wants him in return for Chris Paul? I make that trade without blinking.

We will agree to disagree.

In case you haven’t noticed I haven’t agreed with the team’s draft picks, decision to dump salary at the cost of draft picks (I feel that is the only way to build a championship team) or lack of focus on defense (again how you win a championship).

So I don’t believe we are rebuilding the right way. So telling me we have four players under contract isn’t the “blowing the whole thing up” I am refering to. If you told me we have four players under contract and multiple first round picks, that is a different story.

LBJ, Wade, Bosh or bust . . .and I’m not much of a gambler.

I said I didn’t want to trade Gallinari for Chris Paul because the Knicks still had Jordan Hill and Jared Jeffries on the roster – MY GOD why are you so hard-headed???

Had the Knicks traded Hill and Gallinari for Paul, the Knicks wouldn’t have enough capspace to sign a max FA. Now ask yourself a question : Does Paul+Chandler and no capspace really represent a bright future? The Knicks wouldn’t be better than the Hornets!

Again, there were maybe 2-3 commenters who said that. That’s my entire point about taking the context of a few isolated comments in to consideration when labeling an entire fan base as products of the Garden’s spin campaign.

knicks4life always talks like this .. he hates everything .. probably them most negative person i ever seen … Gallo hasnt lived up to his potention yet … at 21 years old ….. silly boy … we need an /ignore feature tommy d

How many different fans do you want me to quote?

How many of Tommy’s “polls” do you want me to post the results of?

Like I said below we will have to agree to disagree because I could post 100 different comments from a 100 different posters and you would still say it is a “few fans”.

This is more frustrating than when I actually quote DVJ on his constant contradictions.

Championship teams are built through the draft only by the teams that get ridiculously lucky and land a superstar with a top 3 pick.

But yes, we will absolutely agree to disagree, on pretty much every level.

Whatever dude. If you want to take the quotes of ten, or even “100″ like you said, and use them as gospel to represent a fan base of literally millions, then that’s your prerogative, and it probably means that you don’t understand context.

Whoever said they wanted to trade Gallinari + Chandler and no one else for Chris Paul?

OK you guys are confusing me now, I guess this is a continuation of a different conversation that I have no knowledge.

“potention”?

You drunk again jglich?

J/K but actually you are right. Gallo and T Doug’s play of late will attract a major free agent. Their potention is limitless.

Happy.

Or sample sizes, for that matter.

“Championship teams are built through the draft only by the teams that get ridiculously lucky and land a superstar with a top 3 pick.”

Tell that to LA, Boston and Miami. Who were their top 3 picks?

They drafted Pierce, Kobe, and Wade and built around them and none of them were top 3 picks.

Kobe was a draft day trade, point remains the same though.

Your examples are ridiculous. Do you not remember how bad the Celtics were when they were solely built around Pierce? The only thing that got them over the hump was TRADES for fellow superstars Allen and KG, not the draft. Pierce was then one of 3 superstars.

Wade was a top 5 pick, and played with a HOF center who was acquired via trade, not the draft.

Kobe won his first 3 titles because he was playing with the best/most dominant player on the planet at the time (acquired via free agency). He was finally able to get a ring as a headliner when the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol via trade.

It’s not as cut and dry as “championship teams are built through the draft.” Championship teams are built in many different ways.

Mucha’s point is that he was saying trading Gallo for Chris Paul would jeopardize 2010 cap space so he wouldn’t do it. He is saying he wasn’t talking about straight up.

But he fails to remember his whole post. He actually said that Gallo’s potential was limitless and so he wouldn’t trade him for anyone not named LBJ or Wade because there is no limit on how great Gallo would be. I tried to point out that Paul was already a top 10 player and all of the flaws in Gallo’s game to no avail.

No problem with Mucha though. I actually am more teasing him about that since he was so adamant in his position.

LBJ2010 on the other hand keeps calling me out like I’m delusional or a “hater’ or something who doesn’t know the game. I guess his username says it all . . .in Donnie we trust.

I’m not “calling you out.” I’m replying to your posts. I also don’t ever recall calling you a hater, delusional, or questioning your knowledge of the game, but you do love taking statements out of context and bending them to fit your argument. If you post your opinion, expect to have it contrasted.

Since I have been alive only Detroit has won a championship without building through the draft.

Boston drafted well and then TRADED for the final pieces to the puzzle. Same with LA, same with Miami, same with every single championship team I can remember (Chicago, Houston, etc.). But it starts with the draft. This way you have tradeable assets AND free agents will want to sign with your team because there are pieces already there.

Don’t know how long you have been watching basketball but Boston was good with Walker and Pierce. Then they sucked for a few years and, unlike us, accumalted draft picks, kept their draft picks and drafted really well. Then they made trades . . .using those assets.

It is why Nash signed with PHX. Why Shaq signed with LA (sign and trade because LA had assets) and agreed to the trade in Miami. It is why no one wanted to take Chicago’s money the summer they stunk it up but created cap space.

Put it this way, if we sign a major free agent, much less two, after how awful we have been, and with only one lottery pick on the roster, it will be pretty unprecedented.

I’m somewhat optimistic though. No real choice.

Maybe it was you maybe it wasn’t. All good. I’m not that sensitive.

There are too many LBJ tag names to keep them straight.

Understood. Bottom line – we are all Knick fans here. Despite the ridiculous homers (DVJ), I think most of the fans here are knowledgeable enough to be encouraged by progress and development of the young players, but not think they are the franchise saviors. I guess you just disagree in giving most fans (and I want to emphasize the term MOST here) that benefit of the doubt.

Wikipedia.com:

Sample Size: “The sample size of a statistical sample is the number of observations that constitute it. . . .Typically, all else being equal, a larger sample size leads to increased precision in estimates of various properties of the population, though the results will become less accurate if there is a systematic error in the experiment. This can be seen in such statistical rules as the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem. Repeated measurements and replication of independent samples are often required in measurement and experiments to reach a desired precision.”

Yeah, might be a little bit difficult for me to prove to a mathematical certainity that Knick fans are too overly optimistic about the talent on their roster over the past ten years.

Of course I remember the Walker/Pierce Celtics – they represented what everyone fears the Knicks will become this offseason: a perennial playoff team that loses in the 2nd round.

I also understand your overall point. However, Gallinari has gotten positive feedback from a lot of the stars in the league, so I don’t think it’s not a stretch that they’d want to come play with him (and another marquee free agent, of course).

Overall though, I think our scenario is already unprecedented. It’s extremely unique, so we’ll have to wait and see if it works out.

don’t think it’s a stretch*

That’s a pretty bad story. Why Amare would still be holding a grudge now raises some questions? But if thats true, then Tmac was just an ahole. He should treat guys better than that.

Anyway, from a basketball point of view, I just wonder if Tmac is any sort of fit for this team. A slow post up perimeter player who can’t shoot does not really strike me as the type of guy to thrive in this system. To watch him and Al Harrington consistently destroy any offensive continuity every night is just really not fun and doesn’t make any sense.

This is where my problems with what I have called the Gallo freezeout begin. Why those 2 guys are able to consistently get the ball in the post and given isolations to score is mind-boggling to me. I really wish the same could happen for Gallo..I think he would be a better player and be much further along and more attractive to potential free agents if he had really been featured the way Brook Lopez is on the Nets.

Over the past ten years we’re expanding this to? You honestly believe Knick fans have approved of the talent on the team over the past 10 years? I don’t know of any who feel that way.

It took three days but your conclusion is correct. I truly believe that “most” fans have become so down after a decade of utter ineptitude that they are willing to give managment a pass after a few good games and Gallo and TD showing up for a few games a month. They don’t remember the 90s Knicks and are willing to accept the garbage that is being trotted out on the floor every game. Meanwhile the media types tell us about the “talent” on the roster and how good the team will be at the beginning of the season and low and behold by Jan or Feb we are out of the playoff race.

To me, Walsh has broken his promise to keep the team competitive while rebuilding. D’Antoni as well. That is completely unacceptable and I can’t be optimistic about next season before this season is even over.

Honestly to me Walsh has not accomplished much . . .yet.

I think rationally Chris Paul for Gallinari and Hill (before the Jared Jeffries trade) is a BAD trade.

I think Gallinari for Paul would be OBJECTIVELY a great trade for the Knicks TODAY and I would most probably try to make it happen if I was GM of the New York Knicks – because the GM’s objective is to make his team better.

But I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Danilo Gallinari will be a STAR and I love his swag so I don’t think – as a fan – I want DW to trade him for CP3! But this is totally subjective!

And I’ve always said that he shoots too many 3-pointers and is not aggressive enough on the road.

Man you have to read TKB and the Knicks Fix over the summer after the draft, FA signings, and trades.

You would think we are the Lakers.

Absolutely agree to disagree. The end.

How long have TKB and the Fix been existing over the past 10 years? Whatever – again, we are just going in circles.

I pretty much agree with that, although if I could get Chris Paul I would trade Gallo in a second without even thinking about it. As has been repeated ad nauseum, the 2 most valuable contracts in the NBA are rookie contracts and true max contract players. There are only about 7 or 8 guys who I believe are true max players, and since I think Gallo is a very good young player on a good contract…it follows that I would not really trade Gallo for anyone but a true max contract worthy player. Same really goes for Wilson.

kobe is the best… but i dont know… did we wait through 10 years of bullshit to finally be in the position to turn our franchise around and then pick up a guy who is 32 and past his prime? he might be the second best player in the league but for how much longer?

idk… if we can’t get lebron/wade i think i’d rather just go with bosh and some solid role players, until 2011.

I don’t want to be Kobe Bryant’s rebound team, after he breaks up with the Lakers.

Hey man, I shouldn’t even be in this argument. LOL

*creeps slowly toward the exit*

“Despite the ridiculous homers (DVJ)”

Ouch!

Shots fired!

Hit the deck!

Knicks4life….Dont over think it with this issue I like you understand that as a fan you need to demand more from the management, screwing up in such a pivotal 2 year stretch is unacceptable. Gallo as I have always said is a good player but not the one we needed, and this years LOTTERY pick fiasco well there is no need to speak on that again.

NYC needs a superstar but a superstar PG would be explosive in this PG factory called NYC. If Gallo is the price so be it, shit if Gallo & Chandler was the price so be it!! CP3 is a top 5 player in the NBA!! you trade 2 dudes that will be good for one who is GREAT. I have had pro Gallo fans on here admit that they see Gallo’s celling as Turkoglu & Chandler has a say Rudy Gay celling. Both good players but would I trade em for CP3? Hell yes!!

But hey in the end I dont think the real beef is about Gallo being good or bad but rather that in the last 2 years donnie Alzheimer’s has done nothing but clear JJ’s money off the books a year early.No roster improvement no maximizing LOTTERY picks.

So to be clear CP3 would help donnie save face because truth be told it is LBJ or bust for him this off season as far as FA’s because cleared money to have it this year! Every major contract we had would have been expiring ones next year so cap space in 2011 is not due to him!! Add to that you dont clear 30 mil to sign freakin Joe Johnson!! Or even Johnson & Bosh.

BTW being 21 is not an excuse for Gallo who was playing pro ball in Europe since he was 16! He should know how to post a Kirk Hinrich in a mismatch and if he cant take a 4arm shiver from a guy like Tractor Traylor without needing major back surgery what do u think will happen after a few years playing PF?

He needs to command respect & demand the ball!! He is not an alpha male type. Thats not an insult it is just what is missing when you see him.

Why should we trade Gallo for Chris Paul?

That wouldn’t make any sense.

Keep dreaming guys….

“we need an /ignore feature tommy d”

+1

“He needs to command respect & demand the ball!! He is not an alpha male type. ”

Don’t worry, he’ll develop that.
Dirk was the same way when he was younger…no need to worry.

“Shots fired!

Hit the deck!”

Hit the deck from a water gun?

“To me, Walsh has broken his promise to keep the team competitive while rebuilding. ”

The team would’ve had to be competitive before Walsh took over in order for them to remain competitive right?

Or maybe I should ask you this….were we competitive the season before Walsh took over with Isiah running the ship?

I’ll let those comments slide for now…since all my predictions concerning THE FUTURE of the team have been correct…no need to argue lol.

The Knicks will win 30-35 games this year.

Anybody want to put $$ on it?

Didn’t think so

I dont disagree with that at all. I have always said he is not aggressive enough. But honestly, imo, he shouldn’t have to command the ball…it should be his to begin with, especially on a team this bad. All rookies and young guys who play with a lot of veterans have had trouble at times getting and demanding the ball from them. In this case, it has been made much worse by a coach who refuses to call plays for Gallo mixed with Gallo’s passive nature at times. Hopefully he will continue to get more aggressive over time.

lol

he was pretty alpha male when playing in Europe as an 18-year old and younger. In fact he was the go-to guy of his team. But the NBA is the bigger party and he needs to lurk around the corners a bit before stepping into the limelight.. I think he is just holding back and trying to be smart.

the second walsh trades Gallo, he should be fired. you don’t trade a kid with that much potential.

pg- toney
sg- joe johnson
sf – wilson
pf – Gallo
c – bosh

if LBJ stays this is what walsh should try and do, also considering if wade does not want to come. hopefully keep t-mac on the vets minumum, keep walker, jr and draft a big man or 2 in 2nd round.

douglas won’t need to be a pure pg with joe johnson…. i would love this.

The issue isn’t Gallo, it’s our dumba-s-s coach! Some of ya are fighting a battle making Gallo the culprit when this team line-up and state is worse than it should be due to this coach.

Anyone is tradeable and to get a outstanding pt guard like CP3 or Devon Williams would be totally ideal. However, Gallo is and can be a real special asset for us.

When this coach goes we may finally see how the pieces of this team come together and what is really needed.

mike is not at fault. this is a bunch of crap, seriously. it is always the coach’s fault.

chris duhon and jared jeffries were starting for us for most of the season. did u really think we were going to get 35 plus wins?

he is doing a fantastic job developing our young guys imo.

Gallo, Wilson, and Douglas are all starters for us next year.

And that is supposed to be a core for a championship team LMAO.

add two near max or max free agents a la bosh joe johnson (my favorite combo if lbj and wade stay) and of course this is a championship caliber team.

douglas
johnson
wilson
Gallo
Bosh

championship caliber team….. definitely

I don’t know how many ways you can beat a dead horse.

All I know is that I have watched sports for as long as my dad sat me down with him and put on a sporting event, I’m 53 so that’s a long time.

In that time span I have learned some things and one is to have fun and be a fan of your favorite team. The other is to look at any sports franchise like you would any business.

So far this franchise should have needed a huge government bailout because it amazes me that MSG makes any money. For all we know it’s a HUGE tax write off for Dolan’s empire and they want it that way.

All these people that as I and others have said drink from the kool aid pitcher are just fans who from love keep a blind eye. Like the GF or mother of the wayward son who does no good but is loved unconditionally. Then there are the realistic knowledgeable fans who see things for what they are eventually and are into tough love.

For those who are at the point I am I will write a short list of directions to follow on how to stop being a Knick fan and ween yourself of this dreadful team. I am waiting until the end of July and then I will post it, “How to STOP being a Knick fan and switch sides to the Nets”.

I have a feeling the Nets are going to draft 2 amazingly good players, their own players will get better. They will sign a few veterans and a star veteran leader, they will move into a great new stadium in Brooklyn and they will hire a truly competent coach who knows how to teach the younger players and coach on a professional level on the court too.

The Nets have a much better core of players and mucho draft picks along with almost as much cap space as the Knicks.

But I am not there yet because I like ALL Knick fans do not want us to fail. I want the Knicks to succeed. I want to be proven wrong on all accounts and for Walsh to do some amazing things this off season and continue next season. I want him and D’assholi to be successful and win. I do not want them to fail……..But with the accumulated knowledge of sports and how it’s done, I cannot see how it’s possible to deliver a competitive team in the next season or two. In my world, the real world it would take 4+ years to put a competitive team on the court after what Walsh and D’assholi have done.

And the bench?

You need a bench to make it through the season. there are going to be injuries and you can’t play bigmen 40+ minutes a game all season long and still have someone viable for the playoffs.

That lineup is NOT a championship lineup unless there is a really strong bench. Not only to give minutes but for matchup issues and ineffective play from the first unit which happens to all good team, look at the Lakers.

BOB: EFF Lebron

“And the bench?”

Stop reaching man.

He answered your first question with a good answer and you come right back with another question lol.
You can fill in the bench just like Boston did when they got their max players a couple years back. You don’t need a dynamic bench. Boston had Posey, Big Baby, House, Powe, Scalabrini, Tony Allen and a few other people. All you need is that strong core to start and your fine.

That line up IS a championship team.

Its just unfair to compare the Nets and the Knicks at this point. The Nets didn’t have the worst gm in the history of the league destroy their team to the point that they were paying the most out of any team in the league for one of the worst teams in the league. The Nets actually had assets to trade that they could get draft picks and that they didn’t just have to be cap dumps.

Plus, as much as anyone can like the Nets situation(count me among them), they are just going to avoid having the worst record ever this year. And they could do that and get away with it because they didn’t have Isiah to trade away their draft pick for an overrated waste of talent. So…basically, the NEts were in a much better situation to begin with so they should be in a better situation now. Its as simple as that to me.

That team is barely better than Atlanta’s team this year. And it does not have any sort of bench whatsoever. It is also a dream scenario that both Bosh and Johnson leave their respective teams which are in the playoffs and millions of dollars on the table to join the Knicks.

So . . . who is reaching?

When you say “competitive” what do you mean? I don’t know why the Knicks can’t be competitive next year insofar as being a playoff team, but I’m assuming you have higher aspirations.

I think the Nets thing is a little overblown. What exactly is their “great young core”? Other than Brook Lopez (who I think is also somewhat overrated), what’s to really get excited about? Their record speaks for their present talent. As for the draft, if the Nets get Wall, then yes that’s a reason to get real excited about their team-otherwise it’s dicey. Furthermore, while Brooklyn is a great place (I am a resident), it usually falls short of Manhattan in terms of being the place for high profile stars. Why would it be any different in the case of the Nets and their new arena?

I don’t think a team can ever win a championship with D’Antoni as a head coach, but if he turns out to be an important pawn in attracting star players I might think differently of him. I actually still have faith in Walsh-he seems too smart to trade/compromise draft picks away without having a good idea as to what the net gain will be-although I have increasing doubts the end result will be LeBron. I guess we have to wait and see what happens. Give the Knicks a chance at least before we start planning on how we are going to jump ship.

billy walker is a keeper for the bench imo. there are several talented bigs who walsh could grab in the second round. after this year, walsh could then use the mle to help build the bench.

walsh could and WOULD use eddy curry’s EXPIRING CONTRACT to add pieces to help the bench that is players with longer term contracts. mucha pointed this out and i could not agree more of using eddy curry for turiaf and vlad. well right there is two guys for the bench….. bottom line is bench isn’t an issue bc walsh can easily be very creative.

also, mike only plays 8 guys too, so a strong bench is not as big as an issue here. i do agree though depth may be a problem in year one but after that the mle becomes key, thats when your like the lakers and you use it on guys like artest or celtics and use the mle on wallace.

Walsh used our mid-level on Chris Duhon.

Nuff said.

for you

you think that line-up can beat the Lakers?Orlando?.That lineup isnt even as good as Atlanta is right now

that lineup could beat the lakers and orlando, of course it can.

vince carter is only getting older for one.

for the lakers they are DONE improving… they can use their mle i know but in our case guys like douglas, Gallo, and wilson are only going to get better. the lakers are an older team, they wont be there forever…. injuries will kick in, like they have with the celtics.

so, yes that lineup can beat the magic and can beat the magic.

how is that team BARELY BETTER THAN ATLANTA…. you would be adding joe johnson to the knicks and subtracting him from the hakws… i do not understand your logic.

joe johnson and his team are in the playoffs, but their teams will NEVER compete for a championship. together, however they can. i explained that eddy curry’s expiring contract could and should be used to upgrade the bench.

Mike Bibby/Johnson/Marvin Williams/Josh Smith/ Holford
>
Douglas/Johnson/Chandler/Gallo/Bosh.

Bosh would be playing out of position and Douglas is not a starting caliber PG. Johnson is the only veteran player and there is no bench, which is Atlanta’s strength this year with Crawford, Teague, Joe Smith, Evans, and Zaza. Atlanta’s team this year is also far superior on defense with Williams and Josh Smith. Not to mention they are a great team having played together for years.

So Atlanta’s team this year (with Johnson) is better than your projected team next year (with Johnson). What don’t you understand?

Do you have any idea how good the Lakers are?

This ish is so delusional it is scary.

Learn how to ignore certain posters here dino…..it will save you time.

Some people just talk to hear themselves talk.

+1

Toney Douglas is not the starting PG on a championship team

Who else was available that summer?

Exactly….

Nuff Said

Arroryo, Pargo, Jason Williams for 1/2 the mid-level.

Use the other half on Chris “Birdman” Anderson like Denver did.

I thought you were ignoring me. Drugs must be effecting that short term memory tonight?

the lakers are soooo good, but my point is that team will not be good forever. they are getting older and injuries will kick in like they did with the celtics. our players will only continue to get better. it is unfair to judge toney douglas too.

my point was for next year if you subtract joe johnson from atl and add him to the knicks. i misunderstood your argument.

but stop talking the bench. we have eddy curry’s expiring contract to use to add mutlpile bench players and draft picks. not to mention walker and giddens and possibilities.

Poor Dino, It’s never the coach’s fault for anything! He had no part in a only 2 time MVP in history for Phx not reaching the Finals, he had no part in ANY of his teams not playing any defense, he had no part in Gallo being lost or the team not running good plays for him, he had no part in players missing assignments all the time without any accountability.

Maybe that’s the problem. This coach is not PART of the team. The only thing more baffling about why this coach still has a job here is “Why does Herb Williams still have job too?”! This team honors poor performance and mediocrity!

“Do u think we should have 35 wins?” No many of us was never as dense as DVJ still is now. lol

So please Dino, write down ALL the things a good coach should do and then write “NOT” before each one for this coach!

“Arroryo, Pargo, Jason Williams for 1/2 the mid-level.”

Would any of those signings improved our records?

“Use the other half on Chris “Birdman” Anderson like Denver did.”

Birdman wanted to resign with the Nuggets…that’s why they gave him half the mid level. If he would’ve left them, he would’ve wanted more money.

“Drugs must be effecting that short term memory tonight?”

Uh oh..here come the personal insults….somebody must be getting a little upset.

All good playa

Unless you see Walker and Giddens as 8th or 9th men on a championship team (and I really hope you don’t) why even bring them up? On the other hand depth is essential to any championship team.

You really think we will get quality players and draft picks for Eddy Curry’s expiring contract? Other teams have contracts expiring in 2011 and players who can actually play and not eat all the food on the team plane before it takes off.

Think about it? If a real star player would come here because of D’Antoni, who hasn’t even gotten a team to the Finals, what would it say about that star player? YEP, “pseudo” just like the coach!

It is a little concerning that after watching Isiah up close for several years, we can’t see that we’re being hosed by a very similar phony in this coach. This coach never blames himself or put the reins on himself to get this team playing better or smarter b-ball.

Until this organization sees what many of us sees in that this coach sucks, we’re not going anywhere!

““Do u think we should have 35 wins?” No many of us was never as dense as DVJ still is now. lol ”

LMAO

Call it what you want but when they win their 30th game…remember to say I was right.

Lower those expectations homey.

“It is a little concerning that after watching Isiah up close for several years, we can’t see that we’re being hosed by a very similar phony in this coach.”

I think Isiah bought all those players in himself no?

Why don’t we wait until D’Antoni brings in his players?

It is sad that D’Antoni coached Isiah’s players to a better record than Isiah did.

July 1st is right around the corner.

We have discussed this before. Yes Arroyo or Pargo would have improved our record. What is wrong with you.

We have also had this conversation many times DVJ, Birdman was a free agent the summer we signed Duhon and then resigned the following summer.

It is not a “personal insult” it is like you have memory deficit disorder or something. From what post to the next you are all over the place EXCEPT in your undying devotion to Walsh.

Hey Dino….
Since I’m ignoring Bob…why don’t you ask him who the starting PG was when the Heat won the Chip.

Thanks buddy.

K4l, you know I have respect for you going back to the fix. Please don’t confuse my optimism and loyalty for confusion and Kool-aidism. My first year watching basketball, I was 9 years old and the knicks just happened to win their first championship that year. What does that mean? I seen two championships in 40 years and none for almost forty… and I am still a fan… a loyal fan. I have been proud of them and ashamed of them at times, but I will always love the knicks. If I am outraged at what they do, I will write what I beleive the solution should have been, or should be. They have repeatedly made dead-end moves over the years, but I try to find a reason to cheer. In my opinion, that is what a fan-atic does. I focus on the potential of our players just like I focus on the potential of my students. Why shouldn’t I?!?! They may never win another championship in my lifetime… be I can still love the players who play hard, I can still be happy for the guys like Starks who beat the odds to become a star. The NBA is predominantly mediocre players, with a bunch of good, a few very good, and 3 or four great players. Every year I will find someone to cheer for… positively… for the next forty years just like the last forty years. If I have to take my koolaid with vodka to dull the pain I will. But I’m gonna cheer for the Knicks.

Actually IT coached the Knicks to a 33-49 record in 2006-2007.

Then Marbury went all Marbury and the Knicks went 23-59 the following year.

In D’Antoni’s first year: 32-50.

33-49 (IT) > 32-50 (MD).

So Isiah actually coached the Knicks to a better record in 2006-2007 then Mike will do in his first two years as Knicks coach.

But it doesn’t matter. We should be happy with 30 wins because you predicted it and will celerbrate it until July 1, 2010. Right on schedule . . playa.

And who are these magical D”Antoni players that we have to wait for? LBJ? Wade? Didn’t we draft Gallo, Douglas, and Hill under D’Antoni’s era as coach. Hill and Douglas barely played until the season was over and Gallo has been inconsistent at best. Isn’t Eddie House a former D’Antoni player (he sucks by the way).

Who are these players?

Arroyo? Pargo? LOL they suck more than Duhon. Jason Williams was retired in ’09 and came back to play for a championship this year. That’s your solutions? — > Fail.

Pargo is shooting 34% from the field. He can’t get off the bench with the bulls. Arroyo is a backup just like Duhon. You’re out of your mind.

You mean Gary Payton and Jason Williams? Are you claiming Tony Douglas is in their league?

I seriously hope not.

Just quit while you are behind.

Oh yea, and Chris Anderson was a messed up druggie without any success in the NBA.

Denver decided to take a chance in ’08. Doesn’t mean the Knicks should’ve done the same.

Thank you Lebris…

At least a few people here have common sense lol.

This guy wants to replace one back up with another back up.

LOL

Take a Xanax Knicks4life..

DT I quoted you but no shots your way.

I know your position on the Knicks and what you feel we need to do going forward.

“If a real star player would come here because of D’Antoni, who hasn’t even gotten a team to the Finals, what would it say about that star player? YEP, “pseudo” just like the coach!”

This is a ridiculous train of thought. I think there’s 4 current coaches with rings. Do people on here say dumb stuff just to say it?

Let’s see…Gary Payton

7.7 points and 3.2 assists that year.

Jason Williams

12.3 points and 4.9 assists per game that year

Yeah…those are incredible #’s.
The Heat won because of one thing and one thing only…….The Flash!!!

Like I said…Take a Xanax and go to sleep.

Fine DVJ, you and your alter ego win, Walsh never makes mistakes.

Duhon was the perfect signing that summer, none of those PGs would have helped the knicks, and Birdman would not have helped the Knicks shotblocking woes . . .happy?

alter ego?

HAHHAHA sorry man won’t be so hard on you next time.

You’re missing the point. I can’t think of one quality FA pg in the last 2 years that would accept the MLE. And Knicks can’t trade for one ’cause of the 2010 plan. But you should know all this already.

- Sigh -

Actually Pargo played extremely well in the stretch where Derrick Rose was out and although he is not and ideal starting PG by any stretch, he is a significant upgrade over Duhon is a raging alcholic. Pargo, unlike Duhon, would greatly benefit from D’Antoni’s wide open style because of his quickness. He played a similar wide open offense in NO and exceled ina backup role to Chris Paul.

Arroyo was starting for Miami, a playoff team. He would also benefit from D’Antoni’s system (check his play with the PR national team) and unlike Duhon is not an alcholic.

If you don’t see the benefits of Chris Anderson on this team I can’t help you.

You are not being “hard” on anyone. I just don’t respect your opinion or anyone who quotes stats. I also didn’t feel like continuing a basketball discussion with you and DVJ who I have raised the same points with repeatedly. Somehow you took that as a “victory”.

More stats . . . wonderful.

Yes that team won because of D Wade and D Wade alone.

At least you are consistent with your idiotic point that the supporting cast is irrevelant on championship caliber teams . . .hence why Miami’s and Cleveland’s supporting casts absolutely suck.

I’m sure you feel that Bulls supporting cast was pretty terrible too.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I have been saying for months who are these players?

Unless you actually look it’s make believe.

I have looked at all the free agents and possible trade bait players and for the life of me I cannot see how anybody can just put together a good team without a core and draft picks.

As I have said in other posts the NBA is watered down and there are NOT enough good players to go around. Hence the casual over payment for services of many players a few years back. Marbury 21 million dollars, unthinkable that someone gave him a contract like that and someone would trade for him with that contract. But that’s 20/20 hindsight, I used it as an example.

The talent pool is running low and we need to fill ours, guess what, there isn’t enough to fill it. Without draft picks it’s impossible.

not to boost IT or anything but he got that record while doing two positions no? so what does the say about MD with one less win then him in those years?

You don’t respect opinions based on stats? What?? Ok fine, you can say whatever you want, no matter the facts. If K4L says the sky is pink, it is so.

Where did I say Chris Anderson wouldn’t help? Obviously he would have.

The point lost on you is that most teams wouldn’t go near him ’cause of all his issues. The NBA won’t even release all the stuff he was into. The Knicks are not the type of team that takes chances like that.

what’s this IT vs MD stuff all about? A competition to elect the worst coach? Seriously who cares? They are both terrible. MD needs to go.

TD isn’t a championship caliber PG with LeBron James on the roster?

Please check the Lakers’ opposing point guard stats everynight. Derek Fisher is arguably one of the worst starting point guards in the NBA – he can’t stop anybody.

Tell that to Vin Baker and Chris Duhon.

Sprewell had serious character issues when he came to the Knicks (remember him).

And if your point is that Walsh doesn’t take chances on players like Birdman. . . did you see the group of thugs he put together in Indiana?

As for stats. . . Marbury averaged 8.5 assists per game but no one would call him a pass first PG. David Lee’s stats make him one of the top 3 centers in the game. Quoting stats without putting them in context or actually watching guys play makes them meaningless.

If you just looked at stats you could make the argument that Lee is a far superior player to Oakley . . . is he?

lmao! I consider Isiah rein hear worse because he was the buyer and the cook. Yet, we did make the playoffs in his first year and once he was forced to cook for his own purchases, he made a meal that wasn’t even on the menu! lol

As for this coach, he can’t cook period! Fast Food only gets you a quick meal, more calories and bad overall good health.

I’m like you in that “who r these players?” This coach coach hasn’t won a ring or gotten to the finals with ANY players. His teams never play good defense so what players do he needs? He couldn’t even use Shaq who had rings. He balked like crazy having a big dude in the middle that actually tried to stop some people in the paint.

Wait until next year when this coach will be booed out of the garden. He has no clue about how it’s like when the press in NY seize on non performing phonies!

But there are many other coaches that have gotten their team to the Finals. Do you want to throw up one of the canned excuses about why this coach couldn’t even get to the Finals wth a 2 time MVP?

Come on, reach for the biggest can you can find! Yes, You CAN!

@ K4L – Bosh, Chandler, Gallinari, Douglas = Horford, Smith, Williams, Bibby in my opinion (maybe even better – but I think both teams are in theory pretty much equal).

Bosh is better than Horford, Smith is better than Chandler, Gallinari is better than Williams and Douglas = Bibby (minus Bibby’s experience).

Mike D’Antoni is a better coach than Mike Woodson and the Knicks have a huge trade asset with Eddy Curry. Considering that the Magic (Carter, Lewis), the Celtics (Garnett, Pierce, Allen) and – to a certain extent – the Cavaliers are getting older I think the Knicks would immediatly be a top 3 or 4 team in the East with Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh.

lmao! Isiah is only worse because he brought in players and then played them the wrong way and had the nerve to fire other coaches! Other than that, your pt is dead on! The both s-u-c-k! lol

I see MD talking over for FL INT’L in a year or so! His predecessor has already paved the way !

There is no competition bb……..

Compare the coaching records and you’ll see what I mean.

Mike Woodson has gotten to Finals with only a 1 time MVP and this coach has not gotten to a Finals with a 2 time MVP. Also, PHX had a much better supporting cast. Woodson is no a Pat Riley but he’s no MD lite either.

Have you being watching the offensive genius in action here the last 2 years? I do see PHX still running well offensively without this coach though. Any thoughts why? Why is Eddie House playing so bad since he left Boston?

Chris Anderson was thrown out of the NBA ’cause of his drug problems. You can’t possibly compare that to Duhon’s penchant to getting lit at the Bungalow 8.

And the Birdman wasn’t much of an NBA player at that point. The Nuggets got lucky — ripping Walsh for that is reaching quite a bit.

And why do you think Sprewell was traded? ‘Cause Dolan didn’t like his “thuggish” attitude. Exactly what I meant when I said the knicks (Dolan really) are not the type of team to take those chances.

That Derrick Fisher who has many rings and has hit many big shots in the clutch to help win them?

Dude, LA has an all round team that can go big, really big and have other stars to handle the load. Fisher is older now and he has lost a step but this dude still have the savvy to count when needed in the playoffs.

“Mike Woodson has gotten to Finals with only a 1 time MVP ”

When?

what am I comparing? which of these two genius coaches broke the sound barrier of 30 wins with a lesser squad? Are you serious? It shows you how bad we have been for how long if we muse over this type of stuff. (and yes, I’m guilty too in doing so as well)

Are you factoring in defense and the bench Mucha?

As long as we have this coach, lowering expectations should not be a problem. He ain’t exactly Lord of Rings.

This coach doesn’t have the passion for the ring like Gollum either.

Lol X got a little confused there.

I thought winning a title made you a winner. Now it’s getting to the finals? What about conference finals — No gold stars for that?

If I go by that, Larry Brown sucks too since he went 24 years before finally getting to the finals.

“Mike Woodson has gotten to Finals with only a 1 time MVP”

Who are you talking about? Mike Woodson was an assistant coach on the Detroit Pistons championship team.

Mike D’Antoni is clearly better than Mike Woodson in my opinion, it’s not even close and I’m far from being a Mike D’Antoni apologist. The Hawks offense has always been “Let Joe Johnson create his own shot and watch – Josh you just have to run to block some shots and put somebody on a poster”. Woodson has done a better job this season but he’s still a bad coach – I guess you were just paying attention to Mike D’Antoni’s coaching like a hyena when the Knicks played against the Hawks lol.

Why did Eddie House play better in Boston? When you play with Garnett, Pierce, Rondo and Allen you don’t really touch the ball (less room for error) and you get open shots on a consistent basis. Period.

“I think the Knicks would immediatly be a top 3 or 4 team in the East with Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh.”

No doubt. They would be behind the Celtics, Magic for a couple of years trying to make it to the conference finals and then JJ would be too old and turn into Alan Houston.

Didn’t Mike Brown (Not Woodson- Error) make it to the NBA finals coaching Cleveland in his 1st year? BTW LBJ hadn’t won a MVP award then either.

damn, how did I forget the Cavs? So add them up front to the list..

LOL All the black folks look alike!

The Hawks don’t have a great bench either – they have a GREAT 6th man but the Knicks can get one with EC’s contract.

Defense? You’re already assuming that you need to be a great defensive team to win. I think teams need to play D especially in the playoffs but the Suns were successful in the regular season and they played in a much much tougher Conference – they still reached the Conference Finals a couple of times and they would have made the Finals in the East. I think it is MANDATORY that the Knicks find a way to aquire a strong defensive player (with EC’s expiring contract I guess) but Bosh, Johnson, Gallinari, Douglas and Chandler are better defensively than Nash, Barbosa and Stoudemire. Mike D’Antoni will have to make some adjustments – interior defense is his Achille’s heel – but I think his system can be effecitve if the players are in fact willing to play D.

Yeah but he at least won in college. Let me get this straight.

You can make all kinds of excuses for a coach that can’t make it to he finals with superior talent but your scowl at coaches who make it to the Finals with less talent.

Yep, that makes you a DVJ groupie!

That’s our pt dude, this coach can’t even make it to the finals using that 7SOL system and very good talent.

lmao!

Sorry my badd, I meant Mike Brown!

The Suns would’ve swept the Cavs that year – the East was WEAK AS HELL man, let’s be serious.

Lmao! So Eddie house problem now is he don’t have open shots? hahahahahahaahahahaha dude, are you actually watching the games on radio or TV?

Eddie House shoots the rock quicker than RalpheAL. His problem now is he’s not playing the kind of defense he played in Boston and he takes ANY shot rather than taking a good shot.

Dude, In Boston, they brought Eddie in the game just for his offense and energy. Eddie had a clear role on that team. On this team, Eddie just shoots anything!

lmao! DVJ compares his turds to see which one stinks the most. It’s always about the best of worst with him!

Actually it was Nash, Bell, Marion, Diaw, Stoudamire. Barbosa never started. That has three good defensive players on it. They also had Kurt Thomas starting for a while which allowed Stoudamire to play the four.

I keep ready the posts from some of the people here and it cracks me up.

One of the first things I learned about sports is never look at stats and make a conclusion from them. Anybody who does cannot possibly understand sports.

It’s a team sport, 5 players working as one entity. The only way to be successful is to be as one. It doesn’t matter what the stats are.

For instance one of the best centers of his time was a 20-10 guy and when he went to play with Bird his stats dropped to what a much less talented players would be. So all of a sudden the Chief sucked…LMAO. No he gave up his stats to WIN.

So when anybody starts throwing stats at you consider it a victory, only losers resort to stats.

Go through all the players in the NBA. All the free agents and possible trade bait and find 10 players to add to what we have that will make us a competitive team. The only way would be to trade Eddy Curry’s expiring and another player like Chandler for a star player with a big contract. Now WHO is that guy. So we sign Bosh and Johnson and now add this overpaid player who still has something left in the tank. Add Gallo and Douglas, 2 second round picks, Walker and who else? We just ran out of money. Plus even if we had some left who are these players who will play well enough?

Look at the Celtics. Since someone brought them up, they already had Pierce, added KG and Allen but look at the other players. Some were young and getting better like Rondo and Perkins who is a beast in the middle. Plus some were older vets who the coach knew how and when to use like House.

WHO IS OUR RONDO AND PERKINS? Douglas and Gallo? OK were is our Pierce , KG and Allen? See it does not add up no matter how many ways you play it. Unless there were back room deals made and people are lined up this will be a total disaster.

Pistons were good that year. Really good. Still don’t know how the Cavs got by them.

“I do see PHX still running well offensively without this coach though. Any thoughts why?”

They kicked Dantoni to the curb and tried the defensive approach with Terry Porter failing badly. The fact that they went back to Dantoni’s system is the ultimate compliment isn’t it?They won’t be anywhere close to 60 wins but why are they still running well? ‘Cause it’s always about the players.

“Why is Eddie House playing so bad since he left Boston?”

He was playing badly in Boston as well. His shot has been off all year.

Eddie House played defense? LOL when?

Really! How did that turn out? As Parcells says, you are what you are! So maybe D’Antoni should have filed a “I wanna play in the EAST” petition huh?

I’m sure David Stern would have sent back a reply letter stating “You can once you get out of the West like a real team SA”

you would need to play Bosh, JJ, Gallo, TD and Chandler very differently than Amare, JJ, Nash, Barbosa and Marion to be successful. You cannot replicate the Suns system without a pg like Nash, period. Bosh excels in post-up situations, Gallo needs to set his feet before he can hit a trey and TD doesn’t have much court vision in transition. They would need to slow the game down to get the most out of these players. Hence, MD is useless for this group.

That is why this summer is LBJ or Wade or bust.

People are talking about making the playoffs but I thought the point of all these trades and salary cap clearing was about championships in the next five years.

No, that’s a testament to thos eplayers not wanting to play good defense when they could score tons of pts and pad their stat, get recognition for the All star game and etc. Sorta like David Lee did for us. See a pattern?

Eddie house was playing well for Boston but Boston needed a guard to backup N8 and who could generate their own offense. Eddie house can’t do that so he was expendable.

dude, you have got to watch the games on TV rather than radio!

KG and Allen to Boston was a back room deal. Gasol to LA was a back room deal. it happens..

You forgot the Cavs, and Heat who will add a max free agent this summer.

The Bucks will be better next year so will CHicago (who can add a max free agent.

Like i stated earlier, I can see you don’t watch the games. Eddie house played really spirited defense in Boston. The dude would come off the bench and would pressure opposing players with his energy.

Even our dumba-s-s coach mentioned that Eddie had really improved his defense when he came over from Boston. So if dumb dumb can see this, why can’t you? lol

I just threw some names out there, I didn’t try to hide those names lol. I know Bell and Marion were good defenders. Kurt Thomas too – which probably indicates that Mike D’Antoni cares a little bit about defense. But Bosh > Stoudemire defensively (rebounding-wise too) and Douglas is most probably better than Nash defensively – even though Nash is OBVIOUSLY in another league (the same goes for BJ IMO).

I think Bosh, Chandler, Gallinari, Johnson, Douglas + a couple of good defensive player a la Haywood or Turiaf (Eddy Curry trade) is better than Stoudemire, Marion, Nash, Bell etc. The Suns were a greek theater mask defensively with a couple of great defenders and a couple of stars who couldn’t care less about playing defense.

*better defensively!

Lack of motivation IMO.

Eddie House did not shoot well this year in Boston either. My tv’s fine. You need to get a better tv LOL

Listen YOU started talking about an Eastern Conference coach to prove your point and bash Mike D’Antoni – and now you’re telling me that I can’t talk about the East to say that Mike D’Antoni would’ve made the Finals in the East?????

Don’t act like a hypocrite, you’re better than that.

lol Ray Aleen wasn’t shooting the rock well but he shooting it better now. Eddie wasn’t moved for that. They already have Allen and House was expendable even though they luv him in the locker room. Boston is thinking about the playoffs and how they got Marbury too late last year with Garnett being out.

They needed to address this sooner and they did.

Turn your TV to WBLS so you can hear some SOLE since you can’t watch any running on the floor. lol

The Cav will add a max FA this summer? How?

The Bulls will be dangerous if they sign a max FA, I agree. But the Celtics are seriously getting older and the Magic aren’t that young either.

Assuming that the Knicks will sign 2 max FA’s – we’re talking about Bosh + Johnson here – there won’t be many FA’s left on the market. Maybe Stoudemire, Wade and James will move but not many Eastern Conference teams will get significantly better this summer.

yes and yes. (although I did add the Cavs below)
but the point I was making is similar to yours. We are still not very good with Bosh and JJ. It’s a clear improvement but nothing that by itself would get us anywhere near a championship. I would not spend money on JJ unless he comes cheap or for fewer years, which is obviously not happening.

Nah man, David Lee’s lack of defense exposes Eddie House’s lack of defense. You can’t really attack the basket if you dribble past House when Garnett and Perkis are controlling the paint.

Really? The Suns would have beat a team like Detroit who played defense in the playoffs?

In a 7 game series, the PHX would not have made it out of the East. anyway, there job was to make it out of the west first. It’s not selective matchup b-ball.

Our Knicks would have made it out of the East many years if it wasn’t for Chicago, Boston, Indiana, Miami and etc.

Cavs have no money to add a max FA. but if LeBron stays they are the best team in the east. Miami will either get a max FA and become a real power player or loose Wade to Chicago, which then becomes a very good team. So we are still looking at Cavs, Celtics, Magic and Miami/Bulls to be better than a Bosh/JJ Knick team. you disagree?

I’m telling ya, Eddie house played good spirited defense in Boston. N8 is doing the same in Boston now. Check out the games!

Eddie house can really move his feet on defense but why should he do it here when the coach could care less. 7SOLis not about showing off on defense. The one guy who tried to play defense here, he got rid of him (JJ) and we tried to make him a 3pt shooter so he could be marketable. How ree-tarded is that?

He’s savvy and he can hit the big shot but he can’t guard anybody!

And his shooting percentages are just awful!

37% from the field!!!

Last 6 games :

-Westbrook 23 points 10 of 13 FGM-A
-George Hill 21 points 8 of 14
-Livingston 8 points – ACCEPTABLE
-Flynn 20 points 8 of 15
-Udrih 4 points – ACCEPTABLE
- S. Curry 29 points 11 of 19

Livingston and Udrih are d-leaguers or back-up PG’s at best btw.

Then don’t mention Mike Brown’s achievements if I can’t mention the fact that the East was a weaker Conference! I hate hypocrites man, you’re better than that.

The Suns were clearly better than the Cavs and the Pistons that year, PERIOD.

Where did I say the Cavs have the money to add a max free agent?

I said he forgot the Cavs, who are a top East team and the Heat, who have enough money to add a max free agent.

Only VC is old on the Magic.

Oh now it’s college championships You’re constantly changing the goalposts. I can’t keep up. Dantoni won a title in Italy. Does that count?

Lets see, Dantoni had 3 years of 7SOL in Phoenix. I don’t count the 4th year when Kerr came and traded for Shaq and ended 7SOL.

The first year, they were the best team and Joe Johnson gets hurt before the playoffs. Still get to the conference finals.

2nd year, Amare is out for the year and they still get to the conference finals.

3rd year, the fight with the spurs kills their chances. Anybody that watched that series would say the Suns were the better team up until the suspensions. And the Suns would’ve beaten the Jazz and the Cavs in the finals.

The Suns were incredibly unlucky. Need some luck to win it all. 2 conference finals in 3 years is great success. People that want to get nostalgic about defense and the 90s…Jeff Van Gundy never had that kind of success. Here or in Houston.

You’re bringing up “good talent” like that should be held against Dantoni. He got the talent there. He brought Nash and Raja Bell there. Amare and Barbosa developed under his watch. He’s hoping to do the same and get his players here.

OF COURSE WE WILL GET QUALITY PLAYERS FOR EDDY CURRY’S EXPIRING CONTRACT!

do you not understand the current economic conditions. look at teams like golden state, who are lowering their ticket prices bc of decreased ticket sales. teams are hurting financially right now…. which is where, we the big market, the greatest city in the entire world pounce and take advantage of these struggling cities.

mucha has said several times looking at guy’s like vlad and turiaf for eddy curry. it works, saves gs money and gives us two legitimate pieces off of our bench. then you have walker along with our pick (s)… second rounders that is and fill out the roster that way. then next year we use the mle to our advantage… it really isn’t that complicated.

DVJ groupie? WTF? We can have a good discussion without that childish bs.

‘Xactly. Eddie House does what you call fake hustle but could never keep his man in front of him. It appears like great defense to the untrained eye. **cough cough see above post**

Ayte I’ma tune into WBLS…sooooooo they’ll tell me if House shot well or not in Boston?

“You forgot the Cavs, and Heat who will add a max free agent this summer”

My bad – misunderstanding.

Rashard Lewis will be 31 years old next season by the way, which means that the Magic 2nd and 3rd best players are both more than 30 years old already.

If the Knicks sign Bosh and Johnson and the Bulls/(OR)Heat sign a max FA (Wade in CHI or Stoudemire in Miami if Wade stays), I think we’ll be in the top 4.

1. Cavaliers
2. Magic
3. Either the Heat (with Wade, Beasley and Stoudemire) or the Bulls (with Wade, Rose and Noah)
4. Knicks / Celtics.

thats just great,wait til the season is 3/4 over and then predict that the knicks will win 30-35 games.What a friggn genius

When did being the 4th or 5th best team in the East by 2010 become a bad thing? That would be a huge improvement from the last decade!

If the Knicks have a starting 5 of TD, JJ, Chandler, Gallo, & Bosh they would have a really good young athletic core. Add Walker, JR, 2 2nd rounder, & T Mac (vet min) then at least they are in the playoffs. Trade EC’s expiring at the deadline or let it expire and make a run at Melo next year.

Guys that is a way better team than they have had since the 90′s! We still have a 1st rd draft pick in 2011 so that team can improve big time in only 2 years . The Knicks don’t need to win a championship next year.

With a few good signings JJ & Bosh 2010 & Melo or ? in 2011 then they have the makings of a great young team. You have to crawl before you walk!

If we sign Joe Johnson and Bosh we won’t have any cap space for Melo.

And we won’t have any draft picks (at least lottery picks) until 2013.

So how are we going from a playoff team to a championship team?

van gundy made it to the finals

mike d’antoni is the smartest one in the dumb row

a top 3 or 4 team yes,but not a championship team

Easy EC’s contract is almost 12mil then trade Chandler for a draft pick in 2012 (1st rounder hopefully) to make up for the T Mac trade. That is $15mil avail right there so it can easily happen! Chandler becomes expendable with Melo coming in. How is that not a great situation?

TD, JJ, Melo, Gallo, Bosh by 2011

Walker, JR, 2 2010 2nd rd picks, & Tmac on the bench

whoops!another Donnie Walsh joint

exactly. dont sign JJ. He will tie us up for too long and not help to go beyond “4th or 5th best team in the East”. Precisely because we suffered a full decade and precisely because we have been holding a fire sale for the team for the last two seasons, we shouldn’t be content with just being better than now..

Chandler is a RFA next summer. Who is going to give up a 1st rounder for him without trading us salary back?

You guys way overvalue Curry’s contract. And even if we do trade him it will be for other contracts which will . . . eat up cap space.

That is a real possibilty… You can bitch about this team but those signings are very realistic. But I guess if you want to say I don’t know if that will happen my response is none of you know if that it will not happen!

The $$$ is available so if they want to come they will come.

LOL! Italy? lmao! hahahahahaha

This coached had his players in PHX and they couldn’t get out of the West!

Could you please list who are D’Antoni players and are we getting them? lo

What’s wrong with DVJ? lol He has as many rings and Final appearance as this coach!

lol. I’m still wondering who this coach’s players are? No one wants to put that out there!

lol. They can’t tell ya, you have to watch it!

“You guys way overvalue Curry’s contract. And even if we do trade him it will be for other contracts which will . . . eat up cap space”

I don’t think that’ll be a problem if the Knicks two marquee players this summer. If they don’t, I think Curry will be traded with Chandler for a star with a big contract.

Even without Curry’s expiring contract and Will the Knicks WILL NOT have enough capspace for Melo if they sign 2 max FA’s this summer.

EC’s contract is of the books summer of 2011 so we don’t have to trade him. Who cares if we don’t get a 1st rd pick for Chandler since you think he is not worth it. You asked me how we can sign JJ, Bosh & Melo in 2011 and I just showed you.

We have the $ to have a starting 5 of

TD, JJ, Melo, Gallo & Bosh period!

Hate if you want but it’s simple math my friend. I don’t give a F— if we get a 2nd rounder in return for Chand if it frees up the money to sign Melo that summer.

Really, The Pistons beat PHX by 17 pts at PHX towards the end of the year. The Pistons won a ring and PHX…………………….(all together now) WON NOTHING!

Hey my Mets would have won more rings if Beltran hadn’t watched that last pitch go by or the Phillies didn’t hit the ball or our own trainer had sold Steriods to his team instead of the Yankees! the list is endless with excuses.

Lol Mike Brown actually got to the FINALS! Your pt is make believe! lol

Your first sentence could be Steve Nash in his prime or any D’Antoni coached star! lol

I like this guy RR

He knows what he’s talking about.

I’m bringing up really good talent to show you that even with the best of the players, this coach and his gimmacky 7SOL can’t even make it to the Finals…so forget about a ring.

Why not? EC’s & Chandler’s contracts are around 14.5-15 mil. If Bosh gets max and JJ gets $14 then that is $16mil avail for Melo. Not to Metion Gallo’s is a team option at $4mil but they will pick that up. It can easily happen

Not Tue. Eddie plays good defense. NBA players are usually very athletic and most of them can play good defense if they wanted to or were demanded to do so or sit on the bench.

Check out N8 in Boston now playing harder on Defense. Marbury even played harder in Boston on defense.

Fake Hustle, That’s what they do on this team at best. lol

Cough cough? You giving yourself on of those hernia exams again! Play on Playa! lol

and why would you want to pay max and near max to Melo and JJ even if you could? They would just take each others shots away. If you really think you can get Melo, you pass on JJ and invest the money for role and bench players.

One day…….Rubio will be the icing on the cake.

You are entitled to tour opinion..

I personally rather have the NY version of the big 3- JJ, Melo & Bosh. We still would have Gallo, TD, plus the 2 picks from upcoming draft. Also a 1st rounder in 2011 for all the depth you need. But either way the new roster is something to look forward to if you are a knicks fan. IMO of course..LOL!!

well, cant complain about your scenario. I’ll take it. But since we are freewheeling here, I would try to prevent what happened to Boston. (gotten too old too quickly) JJ doesn’t have that much left to command such a contract IMO.

That’s my point, unless Donnie made some amazingly great backroom deals this is going to the septic tank at warp drive.

You mean mud pie or shit pile. Icing on the shit pile.

No he doesn’t. The numbers don’ t work I just don’t feel like listing them. You can’t have two max players with their salary increases in 2011-2012, 2nd round draft picks on the roster, a 2011 first round pick, the cap holds for your current players, and Chandler as a RFA, and still sign Melo to a max contract in 2011-2012. It does not even come close to working. Once we sign two max free agents and curry comes off the books maybe we have 10-12 mil in free space if we absolutely gut the roster and only have one year deals. It doesn’t work.

But keep cheerleading.

I never said they were signing 2 Max FA’s. I said they could sign JJ & Bosh (max). The Knicks have team options on all of their current 2011 players. That being said if you sign bosh max 2011 salary is

$17,902,500 Bosh plus $13.5 JJ= $31,402,500
$1.6 Mil to 2nd rd 2010 picks with increase in 2011= $33,002,500
$16.5 Melo in 2011= $49,502,500
$3,315,228 for 7 cap holds= $52,817,728

With a $53 mil cap # no Gallo or TD/

People have said that $56mil probably will be the cap # so the Knicks can have the 7 players ( TD, JJ, Melo, Gallo, Bosh, 2010 pick, 2010 pick going into 2011 summer.

With Gallo & TD’s 2011 team options they can be on the roster with the 5 cap holds. I am sure you already know that with draft picks & NBA min players you can exceed the cap in 2011 but they only count the cap hold figure when the Knicks are able to start signing FA’s.

On Hoopshype an article stated last night that JJ would take less than max money to sign with a star player in the right situation. None of us know what he will sign for but bottom line is the possbilty of that roster can happen. I am not saying it will happen but it’s a possiblity.

FYI I rather try and sign Bosh max & Gay for 10-12mil if we can’t get LBJ. Then it would be much easier to fill the roster.

Bosh. Is. Not. A. Center.

Not on a championship caliber team.

Interesting thread though.

No shots.

On second thought…

He’s not a center on any team.

Terrible idea.

This “coach” might go for that though. He would obviously be better than _avi_.

In your scenario you have NOT traded Curry, have NOT included the salary of TD or Gallo, and have ALL miminum salaries outside of Bosh, and Joe Johnson.

You also have NOT factored in the Knicks 2011 1st round pick.

You also HAVE Joe Johnson accepting a $12 mil/year offer he already rejected from Atlanta and he would be leaving a much better ATL team than the one he would be coming to in NY.

That is NOT a realistic scenario.

On to the next episode . . .

Welcome back after you cowardly slithered out of the room yesterday . . . LOL.

Was a good back and forth yesterday. Tommy Dee is also MIA.

@ RR – 2011 Knicks payroll :

Danilo Gallinari : $4.190 million
Toney Douglas : $1.145 million
Wilson Chandler : $2.130 X 300% = $6.390 million
Max FA : $16.569 ($15.780 x 105%) X 108% = $17.894 million
Joe Johnson : $15 million
2011 1st round draft pick : $1.3 million

=

$45.919 million

Carmelo Anthony’s salary will be at least $18 million in 2011 – there’s NO way the Knicks will have enough capspace to sign Melo if they sign one max FA + Joe Johnson this summer (45.919 + 18 = 64 mill salary cap!! Not to mention the fact that we’ll have to fill the roster with a bunch of minimum contracts – the Knicks would in fact need a $67 million salary cap to make it happen!). No disrespect but you must come down to earth man!

LMAO

Nah, I don’t remember what it was, but there was a small part of your argument I didn’t necessarily agree with, so I didn’t want to jump all the way into the fray.

Also, from you guys’ back and forth Arroyo, J. Williams or Pargo would have been viable options to at least split minutes with Duhon. The Knicks have been entirely too thin at the point for 2 years in a row. Even a D-Leaguer who could penetrate (something Duhon was unable to do all year) would have provided, at worst, a welcome change of pace.

Their numbers this year are irrelevant, their roles would have been significantly different here as the Knicks were in dire need in the backcourt.

This summer could be really ugly.

I hope not.

Ok I guess I was not clear enough. I said I would prefer to sign Gay for 10-12mil per year…

That being said you are saying LBJ or Wade this summer or DW F—d up. Here is why I disagree with you because lets look at what would have been this summer:

Isaiah’s plan 2010-11 roster & Team salary
Craw- 10mil, Jeff- 6.8, Z Bo- 17.3, EC 11.2, & Chan 2.1= $47.5
add $7mil for Gallo, TD, & Hill even though we don’t know who he would have drafted the money would be the same ($54.5mil). So over the cap this summer with the ability to sign a mid-lev and draft 2 2nd rounders. So you want that 8 seed at best 1& done in the playoff team instead of possibly:

We will do no LBJ, Wade, or Joe J since you are saying no way he excepts a 5 year $65mil deal.

2010-11
TD- 1.071
Gay, Manu, Felton, B Roy, Haywood or Tyrus Thomas- 6-10mil
Chand- 2.1
Gallo- 3.3
Bosh- 16.59
EC- 11.2
JR Gid- 1.1
Walker- 855K
T Mac- 3.0(1 yr deal)
draft- J Varando (6-9 PF best blocker in nation)- 750K
draft- either pg G Vasquez or S Collins/ PF-C Singler, Pittman or Harangody depending on our 2nd signing(G or F)- 750K
total= 49.26 mil for 11 players so we can sign a vet min or up to 3mil on a 1 year deal

That team is a 4 or 5 seed in the east next year

2011-12/ I am going to say we signed Gay 5yr-50mil in 2010
TD- 1.145
Gay- 8.920 ( 7.84, 8.92, 10, 11.08, & 12.16) 2nd year of cont.
Gallo- 4.190
Bosh- 17.894
Varando- 800K
Pittman- 800K
1st rd pk- 950K
2nd rd pk- 750K= $35.449 mil
sign Melo- 18mil= $53.449 mil
add 3 min- 1.47
total $54.9 mil

Championship roster $55 mil cap which is very realistic

I hear you man but take a look at the comment I added to Knicks4life above:

I know we could have waited for 2011 for all the cap space but we would have sucked again next year with Isaiah’s roster. Also just so everybody is clear i really hope the Knicks sign LBJ!

I think trading Hill & a 2012 1st rd pick is worth the risk of turning this franchise around. We still will have a 1st rd pick in 2011 plus hopefully DW signs a star plus a really good player next year.

that last post was for Mucha.. my bad

I was just providing 2nd tier options in the propsed 2010-11 roster if you were not clear on that.

Your whole theory (which DVJ applauded) was signing Bosh and Joe Johnson and then getting Melo which I said is unrealistic. You are now backpeddling faster than Eddie Curry from a slim fast.

Your second scenario, Bosh Gay and Melo also will not work. Why . . . because Gay is a RFA and if we try to sign him for 10-12 mil Memphis will match. He already turned down a similar deal from Memphis.

No one is talking about Zach or Jamal. You are completely changing the argument, DVJ style. And . . . just so we are clear we could have signed a max FA (one of them) this summer and had enoug room for Melo in 2011 if that was what we wanted to do WITHOUT giving up all of our first round picks.

The end.

“Why should we trade Gallo for Chris Paul?

That wouldn’t make any sense.”

Why doesn’t that trade make sense?

Makes perfect sense for the Knicks, not so much for the Hornets outside of salary dump purposes and trying to get at least some value back for 1 of the best players in the league.

“the second walsh trades Gallo, he should be fired. you don’t trade a kid with that much potential.”

If he trades Gallo for Chris Paul there should be a statue erected in his honor in front of the Garden.

Yes, Danilo has potential, but Paul is arguably the best players at the toughest position to fill in the NBA. It’s a no brainer.

“I think he is just holding back and trying to be smart.”

But that isn’t smart, that’s dumb.

No it’s not the end! The point of this discussion was to point out that the Knicks can compete for a championship in the next few years. Since you can tell the future and know what each FA will sign and not sign for I replaced JJ with Gay. I have read a few articles that stated JJ might take less $ to play with a star. LBJ is a star Bosh not a star but close. Your argument was that we can not compete for a championship in the next 5 years and you are wrong.

Nobody here knows what FA’s will sign where or for how much. So that being said The Knicks can fill their roster with a max, a 10mil per year 2nd FA. Plus use 2 2nd rd picks to add to a playoff run next year.

Then the following summer sign a max when EC’s contract expires and they can either trade Chandler for a pick or do not tender him a contract making him a UFA. Also they will have a 1st & 2nd rd pick in that draft. I just worked out the numbers above with all of the increases so you know it works.

Your agrument about waiting for 2011 leaves out the fact that the Knicks would not compete for a playoff spot next year. Adding 1 max player to a roster with Jefferies & Hill instead of Manu or Gay would be a joke with no chance at the playoffs. You try selling that to LBJ or Wade and see how far it gets you! Now its the end.