In Defense of Lee

Tommy you have. To be kidding me, Lee was shown up playing Beasley who is a 4 not a 5. Then his defense is a joke and now we did all the trades to get cap space so we can get Lebron and Lee? Are you kidding me? In the words of biggie that’s a fail.

There is no doubt Lee has been a good soldier these past five years. I hope he is resigned at 50 million over 5 years (8-9-10-11-12) I believe that salary is fair and structured to give maximum salary cap this coming season. I would let Lee go should Bosh decide to play for the Knicks. You cannot have more than one high priced power forward. Lee is not a defensive player but that is not the reason for all the Knicks losses. Complete rebuilding of the roster left the Knicks with no players capable of closing out games. With a star player you have that opportunity to win games in the last 5 minutes. With that long athletic player besides Lee and at a star player the Knicks should be very successful going forward. Go Knicks

I was curious about him at the 4 spot but after a small sample I dont think so. I would rather go with Boozer since he would be cheaper than Amare and touher than Lee and Bosh. Signing Lee and Camby is not a 2 for 1 since Camby is 36 and injury proned. What happens when he hits a old age decline? Camby at 4 or 5 mil? I would rather spend 3 mil a year on a mid level first rounder at the 5 spot and sign Boozer at 12 or 13 mil. A smart trade with NO could land the knicks Collison and Okafur. That how you get bang for you buck. The knicks would have a shot blocker and a good post defender in Boozer in the front court. Boozer is by far the better post defender out of Lee, Bosh, and Amare. Lee and Camby would mean a defensive liability with a weak side help shot blocker who is not reliable for the future and is aging.

Im meant tougher.

The knicks have to stop targeting players who already played their best basketball and are on decline. LBJ can play with an old center in Cleveland. The knicks can sell him with young good talent, like Gallo,couple college players with potential,Collison,Okafur,TD and walker. That with a star sidekick like Boozer (who unlike Lee is a winner),JJ or maybe Gay. Those are the only second tier stars I would want to see teamed up with LBJ as a knick. And wade if he and LBJ wanted to do that.

I hope you guys dont learn the hard way. Lee and Bosh are soft!!!!! Bosh will not play well in NYC pressure.Only Wade,LBJ, and Boozer could play in NYC under pressure as stars.

Don’t think you are getting a defensive stopper in Bosh, Amare or Boozer and each will probably get 15 million a year. Lee and a young long athletic center might be had for that 15 million a year.

C’mon Tommy. Lee doesn’t just struggle playing defense as a 5, he’s terrible as a 4 too. Did you watch last night when he just stood under the basket while his man Beasley got open on every play? Lee’s just an awful defender..He can’t rotate properly, he constantly makes simple mistakes, he doesn’t contest shots, he doesn’t box out, he doesn’t help well. He does nothing on defense in a remotely mediocre way..He’s just terrible in every aspect.

I like his attitude too. I loved him when he was truly a 6th man type hustle player. But I also liked Jeffries attitude. That doesn’t mean that should excuse his poor play on 1 end of the basketball court. Simply put, if Lee honestly believes he is worth more than 10 million then he needs to leave right now and the door can hit him on his way out for all I care. If some team ends up paying 10 mill for him, they will be extremely disappointed. He is what he is at this point…An average NBA starting 4 at around the midlevel exception. Thats it.

nah nah NAH NAH……nAH NAH NAH NAH…….HEEEEEYYYY HEEEEEYYY HEEEEEEYYYYYYY………..GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE……………………. 1

anyone have ESPN insider and can post this story .. i can only see the headline
“Barron declines two-year deal”

Lees stats are full of empty calories, hes not an allstar hes not a leader he cant play any d and youre kidding yourself if you think hes gonna do better at the 4 i see him getting cooked just as bad while putting up worse offensive numbers, and people keep saying hes playing out of position. hes a product of playing on a terrible team, knicks have to do better if they want to be taken seriously.

I agree with you 100% Tommy.

Lebron + anything = not fail.

Where is all this man love coming from for Okafur all of a sudden?
You guys would be willing to take on that contract just to bring CP3 here?

Haven’t you guys learned anything from the past 10 years?
You want to put us right back in the hole as soon as we get some cap room.

LOL

Thanks God Walsh isn’t listening to this blog when it comes to moves.

Stay Patient My Friends….

Tommy it was cowardly for you not to challenge the fans opposed to signing David Lee in the other thread. If you can point out the fans that were not “justified” in there comments about Lee. I did not read anything that was not true about the ALL STAR*. That was Very cowardly like Lee was on defense this year. A total of one hard foul all year and about 1 or 2 charges.

C’mon MAN!

for CP3 I would take on two Okafur contracts

We all know that Lee is those most improved player on offense but he is also the worst player on defense. He is not worth the headache. We appreciate your services now it is TIME TO MOVE ON!

DVJ already said that!

Paul is that good.

+ 1 Anyday! Okafur isn’t that bad and CP3 is desperately needed here. DVJ is just upset our Knicks has to win both games remaining to get to 30! I told him that it won’t happen a long time ago!

LeBron + Lee at anything above 7-8 mil per (no raises) is a fail. Offense is one thing, but I don’t think LeBron would enjoy going to war with _avi_ at the other end of the floor.

I agree to the extent that Lee was a low draft pick who has improved his play on the offensive end.

But his defensive play has deteriorated over the course of his tenure here. He HAS to know that it is an issue. He has at least been told as much by the media in his post game interviews. Who knows if the “Coach” has addressed the issue.

With this coach and this system i can not see Lee improving his defensive game from what it is now (arguably the worst in the league) to near acceptable.

We have learned over the course of the last few weeks that he is awful as a defensive PF. He is just plain awful at the defenive end period.

As I said on the previous post.. Lee is a flawed player who is a product of a system. he is the best player on an awful team during an awful run. There is NO WAY he can be given a pass for the results over the past 5 years. he has been part and parcel to the record. He was a product of Isaiah Thomas and needs to be cleared out like the rest of the stench in teh garden.

In the end he will be remembered as the Pat Cummings of the aughts… Just a nice player on a bad team. He only “made” the All Star team when the commish hand picked him as a replacement. I dont given much credence to that unless the coaches choose him. Its just an other empty stat in his long line of them.

See Ya Lee.

“Where is all this man love coming from for Okafur all of a sudden?
You guys would be willing to take on that contract just to bring CP3 here?

Haven’t you guys learned anything from the past 10 years?
You want to put us right back in the hole as soon as we get some cap room”

What hole would that be? Having arguably the best PG and a top 5-7 player in the NBA on our team? There comes a time where you have to USE your cap space. Sacrificing some of that space to land an absolute stud and gamechanger is one of the main motivations of getting under the cap. Pretty sure Walsh knows that.

In DVJ We Trust… to say something ridiculous.

If we get Lebron and Bosh we have no money to bring in quality talent. Bosh will be the new David Lee next year.. We will have no real center and a SF playing PF.

If we can sign Lebron and Lee (to a reasonable contract) you have cap space left to trade or sign someone.. Look at teams like NO and GS, teams being sold with some big contracts they might need to get rid of.

We have 1 big expiring and 3 young pieces.

If NO says take Okafor and you get Paul.. for Eddy/Cash/Picks/Chandler/Douglas/Walker you do it. Will this happen? Who knows

Is NY really gonna complain about keeping Lee if we have a starting 5 of Okafor/Lee/Gallo/Lebron/Paul…

If Lee is willing to take $9M a year you have to keep him. The $8M you save can be used elsewhere..

Lets say Lebron comes here.. Lee + $8M + $11M expiring contract could result in something better then Lebron/Bosh..

+1

Really? Landing the best player in the league, yet overpaying for another classifies as a fail? I understand you absolutely despise Lee, and most of your reasoning is valid, but come on. That statement is ridiculous. Not to mention that if LeBron comes, he would have the final say on whether Lee is back or not.

Agreed. +10000000
DVJ would you really have an issue taking on an above average center with defensive skills and a poor contract if we were getting the top PG in the league back. It’s Chris Paul!

“Lee is a flawed player who is a product of a system.” That was true last year when it was run and gun.. but this year the system was slowed down and he did even better..

And i love this idea of a product of the system.. I say to that WHO CARES ITS OUR SYSTEM! If Lee is good in OUR system why not keep him? Why do i care if he can’t play like this elsewhere. If he can do it in NY why does it matter?

IMO, this is still a silly debate …. mike d’antoni will coach this team for at least 2 more seasons … next year with “his new guys” and even if they do poorly, he will get another pass since the team needs “time to gel”
and in that time Gallo is his 4 .. case closed

Because this system of making Lee the number one option can not produce 30 wins.

the system this year is play pick and roll with lee 70% of the time and the other 15% of the time let Lee isolate on the opposing center at the elbow..

then 10% in the time (4th quarter) the team buckles down on it and neither is there any more.

Are you serious HaS?

If LeBron signs with the Knicks, I couldn’t care less if the Knicks give Adam Morrison the max.

If LeBron signs with the Knick = AWESOOOMME.

Don’t be so dogmatic.

I’m glad you aren’t working for the suicide prevention hotline!

Only in NY David Lee who busted his ass for 5 years would be considered a loser.. The problem is he gets the blame and the other 11 don’t. I see it everywhere..

Knicks lose by 15, Lee has a great game then the fans come out with the empty stats.. yet ignore the rest of the team played like crap.. Its always Lee’s fault.

Now he can’t play PF because in 4 games he’s done bad…. Only in NY…. So in 5 years he’s been the starting PF for about games… that’s enough to judge someone.. WOW!..

In 5 years here Lee has never played the starting PF until now.. Think about that for a second..

Year 1. Backup PF, Starting SF (for about 7 games)
Year 2. Backup PF
Year 3. Backup PF, Starting Center
Year 4. Starting Center
Year 5. Starting Center, Starting PF (last 4-5 games)

Other facts people love to ignore.. David Lee is the lightest and smallest Center in the league. His defense isn’t great I know that. But when your covering guys who out weigh you by 50lbs and are 4-5 inches bigger then you your gonna look bad.

I’m all for bringing in Bosh but not at center. If he’s the center next season he’ll be the $17M David Lee.. If we can keep Lee at a reasonable contract (8-9M) the rest of that money can be used for a center and PG.

What was interesting to me and yet to really been discussed here is that Walsh reportedly had a talk with Lee about his defense. Isn’t that the “coach’s” job? Do GM’s with elite coaches at the helm usually make a habit of having private meetings with a player about their play?

“But as far as Lee is concerned let me say this. David is an impossible Knick not to like.”

Not impossible.

“He’s improved, drastically, every season, again except on defense.”

He’s gotten progressively worse, the last two years he has been nothing short of pathetic.

“When we had Brandon Tierney on the radio several months ago, we talked about Lee’s passion to be a Knick, none more evident than attending Dick McGuire’s funeral. That’s pretty classy.”

How about seeking a contract from a team he balked at a trade to during the season? That was “pretty classy”.

“Only Wade,LBJ, and Boozer could play in NYC under pressure as stars.”

You dont know that.

The system is ball movement and open shots.. which when we do it usually works. This isn’t a system of post up and iso which Bosh is mostly about. Sadly Mcgrady and Turtle Fuck (Harrington) are perfect examples of this. Their best games is when they play team ball, sadly the hardly ever do it.

And Bosh at PF with a team better loaded then ours is 38 win team..

I would love to have Chris Paul as our point but I don’t see that happening when did new Orleans even mention he was available and who said we have the best offer? Gallo is our only piece worth value. ….speaking of trade value remember when David Lee was the only player other teams wanted well that’s bc he is a Solid player. …idc that dantoni plays a stat friendly style David has improved EVERY YEAR. ……the guy is a stud and to those who hate on him maybe this will be his last game as a knick but Idk who else we can bring in and be unselfish and average a double double ( he averaged that off the bench as well)…..ALL STAR

It is useless to trade all your trade assets for Chris Paul if your supporting cast isn’t better than the Hornets. Period.

Resigning Lee shouldn’t be a priority. His resume speaks for itself but he’s not a bad player, I mean the Knicks sans David Lee would be at the bottom of the rankings (maybe a little higher than the Nets). The Knicks will have to sign a couple of FA’s if they can’t sign a marquee player like Dwyane Wade or LeBron James. Rudy Gay + David Lee + Marcus Camby (1y) + Enough capspace for Carmelo Anthony is better than nothing. This scenario might be even better than Joe Johnson + Amare Stoudemire.

Is Gallo 4 or 3 is a something DW has to figure out. Nobody really knows the vision for Gallo in this system. I think he could make the transition if gets a little stronger . Something tells me he will become a better rebounder once Lee is gone and he has to rebound. If Gallo is the 4 then a guy like Okafur has to be on deck.

If Gallo is could be something like Rashard Lewis he would be a good look at the 4 making Lee useless.

The team averaged 50 losses since he’s been here. I think they’re called empty stats because they have absolutely no effect on the game so many times.

When Lee has a HUGE game and I mean HUGE, the Knicks always lose. Always. It’s amazing. Who gets 37/20/10 and loses? No one else showed up? No, Gallinari almost had a triple double as well, but the team gave up 60 points in the paint and Lee had ONE foul. Ridiculous.

As much as Nate and Crawford were losers (just as much as Lee), when they had HUGE games the team often won. _avi_ has had a triple double and I think 2 other near triple doubles at the center position! They lost all of those games. Also, his +/- rating is embarrassing to say the least,

Knicks fans are hard on David Lee because they know that 1. Al Harrington, Larry Hughes etc won’t come back 2. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Toney Douglas are still under contract. What the Knicks will do regarding David Lee’s contract could shape the whole future of this franchise – no wonder why he’s under the spotlight.

I criticize him because he would be an ABSOLUTE keeper if he actually played a LITTLE BIT of defense (he does every now and then). He’s a homegrown talent, man I WOULD LOVE TO LOVE David Lee! That’s why I hate his lack of effort!

Size & position = Empty excuses. He’s a poor defender at the 4 and he’s a poor defender at the 5. Period.

I also think it is believed by the NY fan base Bosh = Lebron.

If Lebron says I want David Lee, I wonder if NY fans would really have this hate for him then.

I’m still calling Bosh to Houston.. Using everything we gave them + more to acquire him.

Not playing defense is the most selfish trait a player can have imho.

Harford is his size and he abuses Lee like many others his size: Beasley,Lewis,Boozer,Scola,Z-bo to name a few.

Chris Paul is not the best PG in the league.

I would not take on Okafurs contract just to get Paul.

Isiah has a bunch of mimi me’s on this site LOL.

lee’s D will get worse

he was never a Defender an now plays for a coach that could careless about that part of the game

the only guys that play D for danni boy are the guys that like playing D an have D in there game..

The same point you make to HaS about lebron applies to CP3.. He is THAT good. One of maybe a half dozen game changing players int he league.

To say the knicks sans lee would be at the bottom of the rankings is non provable at best.. What id we had Zbo instead of Lee? would we be in the same place? probably,..

The few games where Lee did not play were refreshingly crisp on the defensive end and we’ve already seen that rebounds can be accumulated by other players in lee’s absence.

I dont know where we’d be without Lee (and no one really does) but i DO know where we are with him… and i dont want to be there any longer..

“Resigning Lee shouldn’t be a priority. His resume speaks for itself but he’s not a bad player, I mean the Knicks sans David Lee would be at the bottom of the rankings”

How many wins would you say _avi_ is responsible for over the last 2 years?

no he isn’t i think the best p.g is DUHON.
the guy just doesn’t know how to turn the ball over
can shoot it from deep 2bad he isn’t allowed to shoot from the stands during the game.
the best at the pick an roll
why try to make a lay when u got a cannon shot kodak would even picture that.lol.

“I dont know where we’d be without Lee (and no one really does) but i DO know where we are with him… and i dont want to be there any longer..”

YEA!!! You tell ‘em Big! lol (pjic)

Saying that lee is routinely over matched at Center is false and more Garden propoganda..

What About Landry in Houston (now Sacto)..

Lee is SIX foot NINE and 250 pounds.

he is not routinely outsized by 5 inches and 50 pounds as he likes to say in his defense.

tell me how many centers in the league are 7 foot 2 and 300 plus pounds.. TWO?

Isiah NEVER brought in a player of Paul’s caliber. EVER.

“no he isn’t i think the best p.g is DUHON.”

Close

Best PG in the league is Deron Williams.

Only a few GM’s have.

The “system” is still Phoenix. It’s wearing a number “13″ jersey.

with all due respect.. Signing Rudy Gay, David lee and marcus Camby with our cap space (while giving up Jordan Hill, our 2012 pick and swapping 2011 picks with HOU) is the worst possible scenario in my view..

Complete waste of assets and opportunity.

it is what it is.. But we;d be capped out again with nothing to show for it. but Rudy Gay and David Lee.. and we’d almost HAVE TO trade Chandler at that point to save ANY face and put together a functional team..

Gallo, Lee and Camby scares NO ONE in the east.. Maybe a 6 seed at best..

Then when you make a move for Melo what do you do? Move Lee back to C cause Camby is 38 years old?

Lee with an untradeably (I made that word up) large contract when LeBron (imho) would grow tired of playing with him from a defensive standpoint, in less than a season, is a recipe for disaster.

Marbury had the talent of of a CP3 but he lacked leadership and ability to want to be really coached.

Marbury could penetrate to the hoop, had a good shot and he had a strong body. He just really lacked leadership and maturity. That was Isiah biggest gamble other than Curry and Isiah was a bad mentor for Marbury. He needed to be tougher on Marbury and get his by in for his program!

As a legend pt guard himself, it was inexcusable for the poor job Iisha did handling Marbury!

Huh? So why are you equating this situation to Isiah?

Dont hold your breathe on him saying that.LBJ likes defensive players. He also like post players . Lee is niether. We dont hate Lee atleast I don’t ,I just want whats best for the team. He seems like a nice guy but is the best deal for talent out there. Is he the best option at the 4? I doubt it. The knicks already had enough money for LBJ so tradind Hill and draft picks would be for Lee. Is he worth that? I doubt it. Is Lee good enough or has a tract record good enough to attract major FA’s ? I doubt. Granger even questoned Lee’s impact as a player. I don’t think players respect him as much as GM’s who look at numbers. The players who dog him every night and play against him would know just how goos or bad he is . So do you still want to make him your PF second tier star of the future. Case closed!

Chris Paul is at MINIMUM in the conversation as the best PG in the league today and for the next five years.

D Will is good.. top three.. but i’d be hard pressed to pick two better young PGs to build a team around.

i’d take either over Derrick Rose for sure..

Who do you say are the top three PG’s in the league FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS? Not Billips.. He is too old.

Dont give me John Wall who hasnt played a second in the league.

I’m talking about within the offense. ….last time I checked d.Lee was an above average passer for a big not to mention doesn’t force bad shots

Chris Paul is THAT good? He was good enough to reach the Conference semi-finals with a well-balanced roster and a legitimate All-Star. He’s definitely “top 10 player in the league” good but he’s not better than a Conference semi-finals appearance right now.

If the Knicks can’t build a better supporting cast than David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja Stojakovic, Bonzi Wells quickly after “the” trade then it’s uselss to make that trade.

Don’t be blinded by the fact that he is “that good”. If the Knicks have enough flexibility to build a good team after “the” trade then Donnie Walsh should do everything to aquire Chris Paul but if the Knicks must 1. trade away Chandler + Gallinari 2. absorb Okafor’s contract and they can’t ship Eddy Curry’s contract – then “the” trade is a terrible trade!

“tell me how many centers in the league are 7 foot 2 and 300 plus pounds.. TWO?”

And they both play for the Cavs lol.

I didn’t check that, I’m probably wrong. I don’t think there is more than 1. Shaq isn’t even 7’2″ come to think of it.

I really hated that _avi_ vs. Goliath BS he came up with when challenged about his defense laying down in the paint like a 2 dollar whore.

Not playing defense is the most selfish trait a player can have imho..

And if u think not playing defense is the most selfish thing a basketball player can do then U ARE A BONEHEAD

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/26/knicks-to-re-sign-barron-for-final-2-games-but-not-beyond

Lee is a good, not a great player on an awful, not a bad team. If he had time to “develop” his game at the four rather than being thrown in at the end of the year after two years of playing center, he would do better offensively and defensively than he has. Lee is not a player who will get 20 and 10 a night on a contending team. But he has proven he can get 25 and 15 on a given night. Championship teams have players who can get big numbers when needed, but they don’t depend on them to do it every night. I think Lee is one of those players. He is flawed, but he tries hard and constantly improves. If we don’t have him, we’ll need players like him to contend.

I think that we can have the best of both worlds with him, give him a contract that starts at 7 mil and escalates to 11 over five years (total 45 mil). Then Dolan can go into his bank account and give him a 1 mil incentive for every round of the playoffs. If we can get two Max’s next year and he wins the championship in his first year, he makes 11 mil… the most he would probably get offered to play for a bad team. If he wins in his fifth year, he makes 15 mil. Also, you can pay him another mil if he averages 1 block per game. To guarantee 1 block, he would probably have to attempt to block 3 or 4 per game. Having a rich owner means no more than having a poor one if you don’t manipulate the salary cap. I do believe that he is a valuable piece if we use him as a PF on a team with a real center. He isn’t the answer, but he gets us closer to it.

Sorry, but CP3 led the Hornets to a 1 seed in the WEST and was within one possession of beating the Spurs to go to the Conference Finals. Marbury’s greatest feat before coming here was losing in 6 games of round 1 as an 8 seed. Chris Paul still has many years of his prime left, which wasn’t the case with Marbury. I think CP3 has more talent, and has the ability to make everyone on his team better, unlike Marbury.

Why do you think that? Check out last years stats on them . When healthy CPE averages more assist,points, and stills . So how is he not better. If he is not the best inyour eyes then you have to think he was second best in the league. When was the last time the knicks had a best or secong best at any position. Try 1973.

I think everyone here is talking about moving Curry’s contract in that deal, Mucha.

That would leave enough money left over to sign LeBron or worst case scenario a Gay + other athletes that can get out on the break and finish (the kind of players that flourish when playing with a pure point guard). Chandler was in the All-Star conversation when he was healthy and playing with Paul. Yes, that Tyson Chandler.

@DVJ If you check last years stats when he was healthy you would see that CP3 averaged more assist,points and steals than Derron so how is he better. Even if you think he isn’t the best pg in the game then you gotta think he is the second best. When was the last time the knicks had a best or second best at any position. Try 1973.

Thank you.

People have forgotten the kind of player Paul is because he didn’t play much this year and when he did he was playing through injury.

Next year he’ll return with a chip on his shoulder for all the people like DVJ who handed the “best young point guard” title to Deron Williams while he was out.

I’d like him in orange and blue when he goes out to prove it.

Your right

CP3 is def top 3

I just like Williams game more because he doesn’t dominate the ball like CP3 does and his team always has a great record.
A lot of that goes to Sloan and also having Boozer as well.
I’m just a die hard Williams fan.

- Sign Marcus Camby to a 1 year contract
- Sign David Lee ($10 million in the 2nd year of his contract)
- Overpay for Rudy Gay ($12 million)
- Trade Wilson Chandler for Darren Collison (pure speculation but you get the point no pun intended), Jerryd Bayless or Ricky Rubio.

Collison-Gay-Gallinari-Lee-Camby should make the playoffs. If Camby retires you can draft a good post defender sign Erick Dampier or Nenad Krstic on the cheap + Carmelo Anthony.

The 2011-2012 Knicks could be :

Darren Collison or Ricky Rubio
Rudy Gay
Carmelo Anthony
Danilo Gallinari
Erick Dampier

+ David Lee, Toney Douglas and a 1st round draft pick.

Now that’s a championship caliber team.

Because the fact that people are willing to take on another contract for $10 million per year to get Paul is very, very Isiahish lol.

Remember how we took on Penny’s contract just to get Steph?

Steph could do those thing like make his teammates better but his ego got in the way of his incredible talent. Im pretty sure most if not all of you guys were hyped when the Maubury trade went through. Infact I would bet good money if I was a betting man that most of you wish now the knicks had a talent at the pg as good as Marbury.

Your right Oscar he did have better #’s but Steph did something no point guard in the league did except the Big O (Oscar Robertson)…and that didn’t mean anything because Steph was never a winner and never led his team anywhere.

Don’t get me wrong.

I would kill to have CP3 but not at the expense of taking on another horrible contract.

I think we all here know Walsh will not add 10 million to the payroll just to get CP2.

That’s my opinion.

Deron Williams is the best point guard in the NBA – always thought he was a more complete player than Chris Paul. But Chris Paul is 2nd imo.

Sorry, I meant CP3.

Dude, I want CP3 as well. I’m just pointing out that Marbury has all the talents that CP3 has and more. However, Marbury lacked leadership, maturity and etc.

I put Marbury in the same vein as the Vince Carters and T-Macs. Tremendous talents but have a fatal flaw. BTW, Marbury was a better shooter than CP3!

I would take CP3 over most gurards int he league outside Devon Williams and maybe a slightly younger Chancey Billups. Billups is a smart pt guard.

. He’s definitely “top 10 player in the league” good but he’s not better than a Conference semi-finals appearance right now.

That’s pretty damn good.. Lets not under value that in his third year(first year back in NOLA) he put up 21 pts near 12 assists and lead the league with almost 3 steals per game..

he put up a big time triple double (24/11/15) in teh playoff win against the heavily favored Mavs and came in second in the MVP voting behind Kobe.\

then followed it up as a 4th year player by leading the league in assists AND Steals the following year..

he is consistently NBA all defensive FIRST team and a true leader on the court..He can take over a game in the final quarter and win it for you on his own OR set up a team mate..

That he even MADE it to the Conf semi finals that year and made Ty Chandler look like an actual NBA player is a minor miracle in and of itself.

He is simply The type that you can easily build a dynasty around. I would put him in the rare air of only a handful of players in the league..

OH.. and he is 25 years old..

just a few points to think about..

Over the last 2 years doesn’t matter, only this season matters IMO.

I’ll do some research – I’m not a D. Lee fan OBVIOUSLY (you should know lol) but he’s the main reason why the Knicks have a significantly better record than the Nets.

who……………………….

Don’t worry man, I think Chris Paul is a GREAT NBA player and I would love to see him play for the Knicks. I ain’t crazy.

But I disagree with the idea that the Knicks should do EVERYTHING to aquire Chris Paul.

If the Knicks can dump Eddy Curry’s contract then I think it’s a good trade – even though I believe that Gallinari will be a star in this league (gut feeling). But I can be objective and I’d pull the trigger if I was Donnie Walsh.

If the Knicks must keep Eddy Curry/absorb Okafor’s contract but they don’t need to trade Gallinari then Donnie Walsh should ruuuuuun and make it happen ASAP.

I just think the Knicks would be better served going after Paul, a player they wouldn’t have to ASK to come and would be under contract, rather than hoping and wishing on a couple “ifs” and “coulds” to come to fruition.

But DVJ the knicks despite having to the on the contrat of a shot blocking center would have enough to offer LBJ a max and still have money left over. Those 2 are the best at thier positions and are perfect building blocks. Do you realize the hype and exitement it would generate if the knicks had those 2. It would without a doubt better than pairing up LBJ with softy Bosh.

I agere that it is a fringy playoff team.. 6th seed at best in the east.. but not very deep on the bench to be kind.

i dont think you are moving Chandler for Collison without taking back Okefor.. with Curry going back.. so eat 10 mil of cap space there.. and you miss out on 2011.. if there is a 2011 with the new CBA. Forget about relying on draft picks.. either they go to Houston or they sit on the bench with this “coach”.

Mucha my friend I can feel you on this! Ummm LBJ has not been to the championship game in 6 years and got smacked in the eastern finals by the magic so not winning it all is not a good way to measure a superstar! Lets not forget CP3 did what he did in the west not in a watered down east.

EC contract has to be a part of the CP3 trade if it where to happen that is the only way to make it work.

I think we need to understand that this off season things have to happen in conjunction not one random act after another. LBJ knows the money is there, that being said what he does is out of our hands, We move on to what we do control and that is deal with teams where we can really negotiate with! Work on trying to get CP3 at the same time work on a sign & trade with Lee to a team like GS who are all offense like MD who can use Lee in there system, taking in return players they dont use or wont resign but would fit really well with our future growth (Kelenna Azubuike & Brandan Wright my choices and cost effective)

Multitasking is the key here and what donnie gets the big bucks for!! He also need to get his scouting dept. in order or listen if they give him good advice!! There are good player to be had in the late first and 2nd rd to be had. GOOD SCOUTING IS A MUST!!

I would kill to have CP3 but not at the expense of taking on another horrible contract.

there’s a man with his priorities.. he would kill someone before taking on another horrible contract.

Your right…that would be the best if we had LBJ and CP3.
You didn’t mention us getting LBJ as well.
If we already have LBJ then of course I would make that deal.
But if we don’t have LBJ…NO WAY am I taking on an extra $10 million per year just to get CP3. If he gets hurt, which he did a lot this year…we’re stuck with that Okafur contract.

I’ll pass……….unless LBJ is already here.

FYI
Bosh is not soft.
Bosh is the best PF in the league.

Not to mention a Paul is a lot more attractive as a potential teammate than anyone on the roster right now.

Zach Randolph has been traded three times on a max contract. Lee at even 14 mil is still tradeable. I understand the qualms against Lee but the hate is getting so intense that you are severely underrating a 20 and 10 player entering his prime.

“Bosh is the best PF in the league.”

No way.

DVJ are you just bored and looking to push peoples buttons? lol

CP3 is not the best PG in the league?? So everybody every where all the pros and all that are wrong and your right? lol DVJ you do this every time something comes up that exposes donnie. You call Jennings a bum and slander the guy. Now CP3 is not the best PG in the game?? lmaoo

We do agree on the Okafor thing I would do all I can to duck that!!

If we use Curry’s EC to get them here, the contracts of Curry and Okafor more or less cancel one another out I think. I would gladly swap Curry for a defensive 5 in order to get the best PG in the game. Yea I don’t think Deron is better than healthy CP3, call me crazy, but I think CP3 is without question the best all around PG in the league. With Okafor matching (or close to) Curry, Paul’s contract leaves us room to still be huge players, and we will be even more relevant, because who on Earth wouldn’t want to play alongside Chris Paul in New York.

Thats crack talk! I promise many will criticize you for that statement. Bosh is soft as a baby’s bottom. He has never won anything , can’t lead a team as the primary star like Duncan did . He is not better than Dirk who is soft but a tougher player than Bosh. Amare has his hart in his back pocket. LBJ guarded him before and shut him down in the post. If David Lee was a 5 out of 10 Bosh would be a 6. Offensively he is nice but on D not so much. As far as Fa’s I rate Amare and Boozer over him. He is just younger.

DVJ are we exaggerating with the he got hurt a lot stuff??

He had a big injury and got it addressed and at the end of the season he hurt his finger so they shut him down, how is that a lot??

The best PG in the game in NYC would have to town on fire!!!

Exactly. And Curry’s contract would cancel out Okafur’s. CP3′s 14 mil would be like what the knicks spent for one max. It sounds to good to ever happen but if it did, DW would easilly get Exec of the Year.

The Nets had to deal with way more injuries (to primary ball handlers/distributors) early than the Knicks did, not to mention the coaching change etc. and the fact that they have an extremely young team.

The last 10 games? Nets are 5-5. Knicks 3-7.

It appears to be likely that the Hornets would only take on salary if it were a Paul/Okafor deal, meaning you either send Gallo/Chandler/TD/Curry for Paul/Okafor or some form of Chandler or Gallo/TD/maybe Walker for Collison/Peja(’11 expiring). Both are somewhat of a salary dump; Collison/Peja definitely would have to be. Doing the Okafor deal potentially let’s you get CP3 and LeBron on a team, but doing the Peja deal makes him your max for one year, maybe fielding a combo in ’11 of Melo/Horford paired with Gallo or Chandler, LeBron (or whatever max), Collison…

Man, to be honest, either option is pretty mouthwatering to me…

Hypothetical for you guys….

What if the Hornets said give us Gallo,Chandler,Walker the EC contract
& we get CP3 & Posey would you do it?

This should be interesting!!! =)

You do take on 5 years of Okafor, but if you get LeBron, too, by getting Paul… My chips are all in.

I cant see them letting Peja go in a trade when they can have both Peja and EC coming off there books at the same times!! Thats is a crap load of money they would be clearing and there real goal.

Dirk.

Pau.

I would even take LaMarcus Aldridge over Bosh IF he were available.

I’m not opposed to Bosh, I just don’t think he’s built for, or even wants to be, a savior and come here alone. I would bet my first born that he doesn’t want to play center, which if he comes he could be looking at a healthy amount of minutes at. Especially with this “coach” at the wheel.

Barron before Camby. Camby is just 2 old.

Yup.

What’s wrong with me thinking D. Williams is better than CP3?

I like that plan–especially because I think Mello would come.

If the Knicks trade Gallinari I will cry myself to sleep everynight. Seriously, this kid is coming off of back surgery, hardly had any time to work out and is 21 years old. Imagine what he will do next year when he gets a full off season to work out and continue to work hard. Gallo is a stud, keep him at all costs.

everyone is obsessing over chris paul, but the reality is that there is going to be PLENTY of options for donnie to find the pg of the future. Think about all of the teams that have a significant chance of winning the lottery…. MOST all have established stud pgs… that is where donnie can use wilson chandler and eddy curry’s expiring deal to work something.

i personally would prefer to keep Gallinari and look elsewhere for a pg…. im not so sure chris paul and lbj would be the best fit anyway since both command the ball so much although they both are so unselfish.

use eddy and wilson to get us a pg with a longterm deal. sign lebron, sign david lee and marcus camby and call it a day. or if you don’t like lee, sign bosh/amare and lbj

In a heartbeat. Posey is on the books for $6,478,000 in ’10 and $6,925,400 in ’11, and that’s it. Paul/Posey with TD’s contract ($1,071,000) counts for $22,489,153 next year, leaving you one max guy already and the space for just about two more. STEAL.

Again..I’m all for bringing in CP3. It’s impossible to hate on CP3 but i’m not bringing him here and Omeka’s $10 million per year.

What’s wrong with that?

I like Pau’s game but he is the true definition of soft.
Bosh is not soft…at all. (Pause)

I would tell the NO GM to go to rehab for his crack addiction.

“And if u think not playing defense is the most selfish thing a basketball player can do then U ARE A BONEHEAD”

Nice comeback. Pleasure debating the subject with you sir.

1 more person to ignore.

Exactly Steal. NO is not going to let the knicks steal from them . If the knicks want Paul then they have to take on a big contract and give up either Curry,Gallo,TD and the 2014 first round pick or Curry,Chandler,TD the 2014 first round draft pick this years second round picks and cash considerations. Thats would have to be the offers just to get them to pick up the phone because again unlike anyone the knicks had in a long time CP3 is best at his position. It would be much easier to get Collison.

Chris Paul and the space (assuming $54M) to sit LeBron and Bosh down, hand them each a $15.75M deal for 2010 and say, “Come own New York and the world with Chris Paul and win as many rings as you can,” isn’t enough to trade Gallinari?

Carmelo + Miller = good.

Carmelo + Billups = great.

Carmelo + Paul = UN- FREAKIN’-STOPPABLE.

The Paul/Posey deal was clearly stated as just a hypothetical.

“everyone is obsessing over chris paul, but the reality is that there is going to be PLENTY of options for donnie to find the pg of the future. Think about all of the teams that have a significant chance of winning the lottery…. MOST all have established stud pgs…”

Plenty?

Define “established stud pg”. With a list of names preferably.

traps9 EXACTLY!!! We can imagine and hope and wonder and think what if this or that with Gallo but there is no what if with CP3!! He is the best at his position!!

I would give them all up and take CP3 & Posey!! add that to the money we have left and if our GM gets smart and pulls a sign and trade with GS for my hope would be the players I have named before please tell me how one we would not want to start fresh with next year with say…

pg)CP3
sg)Azubuike
sf)Posey
pf)Wright
C)?

As a staring point with the ability to still upgrade it to….

pg)CP3
Sg)Azubuike
sf)LBJ
pf)Wright / Mahinmi
c)Boozer

I don’t want just okay anymore if your going to go for it then go for it!! Look at the Lakers they went and got Gasol then win it all and still went to go get ron ron!! Thats management playing to win just like we demand of our players.

Ok im bored , im out . I predict Gallo will have a big game tonight to lead all scorers . Something close to 30pts, 7 boards,3 assist. Back after the game.

Thanks for clearing that up traps9 lol

He does defer too often and he is soft (until he gets hit in the mouth or something and gets angry), but shiiii… the man is averaging nearly 2 (1.8) blocks a game and nearly 20 (18+) points, 11 rebs. and 3+ assists. HOF-esque.

I have to sign in and actually say something on this site for once because the level of hate Lee receives here is unjustified and I can’t take it anymore.

1) Lee Can’t Box out: He’s getting 12 rebounds a game. He can box out, does it slip sometimes of course but that is EVERY player.

2) His defense has gotten worse: He has become the focal point of the offense, in which he grinds and works for points all game long. Add to that his rebounding effort and the guy is fried. As he is less of the focal point his defense will improve. Bank on it.

Enough about how Beasley did whatever to him. Beasley was 16 Pts. 7 rebounds while Lee was 26 Pts. 6 rebounds. 10 more Pts in roughly the same minutes = Lee won the match up. Can you believe what Lee did to Amare? (21 pts 12 rb) or Aldridge (20/10) or Scola (27/20) in there most recent match ups? He does it every night against good players.

Lee is also averaging 4 assists per game for the most part. Where Bosh is getting 2 and Amare 1 per game. That ability to pass makes the team better, something neither of those two will do. ESPN has each of their PER’s in the same Ballpark, and honestly, I believe the most improved this year to next will be David Lee.

David has added more to his game in the NBA then either of those two players, and if he can extend himself to the three point line he is the best player of the group of power forwards. He did have a triple double the other day remember? Hes an “average” PF and he had a 35+ pt 20 rebound 10 assist game as a PF/C. That’s average? Give me a break!

David didn’t come into the NBA a star, and he didn’t suddenly become amazing. He consistently has gotten better and that has hurt his perceived value amongst fans. Had he been a top 5 pick, or went from the bench to the player he is now everyone would be all over him as a Star. Instead he worked at it.

The Knicks shouldn’t pay Lee more then 12 mill a season. Nor should they pay Bosh or Amare that much. None of those players is an Ice the game guy and thats who you pay Max money too. 20/10 is 20/10 and David Lee can be that player for the next 3-5 years. Does he need a center? Yes. He also needs some recognition from a jaded fan base.

If we get lucky at a $54M cap:

Chris Paul ($14.9M)
Raja Bell ($ min)
LeBron James ($15.75M)
Chris Bosh ($15.75M)
Marcus Camby ($ min)

Toney Douglas ($1.1M)
James Posey ($6.5M)
Jermaine O’Neal ($ min)

Yes, we know this is not going to happen. But how can you not do it in a hypothetical? How can Bosh, or LeBron, or even guys like Bell and Camby turn it down? That rotation is unreal…

LOL you’re nuts man.

I would hate to part with Gallinari, but he’s by no means a guaranteed “best player at his position” conversation player the way CP3 is. Point guards are hard to come by and the great ones (which Paul has already proven he can do) make scrubs look like borderline stars.

Is Gallinari going to be arguably the best forward in the game at some point? That’s hard to say, it’s possible, but Chris Paul is the truth and you have to give to get. If the Knicks call offering Chandler and Toney Douglas NOLa hangs up in hysterical laughter. They can get better offers, much better than Gallinari and Chandler + Curry’s expiring.

1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Darren Williams
…
That’s about it. I don’t consider Tony Parker a stud, but that’s debatable. Westbrook is too young to be established, but he will be, as well as Derrick Rose. I’d still take Jason Kidd any day, but his ‘stud’ days are over. Guys like Chris Paul don’t show up every day…

I do think Gallo’s gonna end up being a stud, though, blackwood. But I can’t turn down that [impossible] scenario lol

Lee is 10x as athletic as Zach Randolph, Z-Bo can’t jump over a phone book.

Lee should be a much better defender,he just doesn’t try. It’s pathetic. My eyes hurt from watching him “defend the paint” the last 162 games at center.

For the record CP3 & posey are 21.5 mil next year while all the players in the hypothtical are about 17.5 thats 4 mil they save while getting the guy I keep hearing will be a future superstar on the cheap, Chandler 14pts 5reb’s and 2 dimes a game on the cheap, Walker who everybody seems high on & is cheap as well as a huge expiring contract which is what they need! So if thats the case it works for both teams as far as what there needs are, add to that the hornets have a pretty good 1rd pick coming up and there saving 24 mil the year after which is what CP3 & Posey would be.

Nash and Williams aren’t “options for donnie to find the pg of the future”, Paul might not even be in play.

dino2008 says that “all of the teams that have a significant chance of winning the lottery…. MOST all have established stud pgs…” that’s just not true.

All the “stud pgs” are in the playoffs aside from Paul not in the lottery.

Ellis, Harris, one of Minny’s point guards, Baron maybe… none of which I would consider “stud pgs“.

Mello might not come here- he’ll consider Charlotte first because he has a very close relationshio w Michael jordan…

I dont know HaS who will offer a better deal? OKC? IMO they would be crazy to break up the Westbrook & Durant & Green team!! Harden is not a better talent then Gallo IMO and Westbrook is not big enough oe a good enough shooter to slide to SG.

The Grizz? O.J. Mayo? a better deal then Gallo & Chandler with the EC cap relief? I cant say that.

As for other teams, look at there line ups. Ether they have there PG already or really dont have the mix of assets & cap relief we may be able to offer IMO.

you said it in the second sentence..

seriously, the kid is coming off back surgery.

you just do it.

I’m just saying ask anyone what they consider to be more of a selfish act d.Lee taking off on defense or AL Buckets chucking threes? Dave has been apart of a shitty environment he isn’t the only one that should be bashed…I like dantoni but I believe the way he handles some things are very questionable….but we are in the situation bc of Zeke and his dumb trades, signings etc etc

He very well could be which still would not kill us because CP3 is a stud as well so its a push on talent if he did pan out.

Tommy,

Count me as on board, but I don’t you get Lee for any less than 10m and probably closer to 12M.

“He did have a triple double the other day remember? Hes an “average” PF and he had a 35+ pt 20 rebound 10 assist game as a PF/C. That’s average?”

They lost… it wasn’t even close.

“The Knicks shouldn’t pay Lee more then 12 mill a season.”

They shouldn’t pay him more than half of that.

I once really liked Lee and was encouraged by his potential. I thought he could have been hitting that jumper 2 years ago, I felt he just needed the confidence in it which he has found this year. His assists are a product of the running of the offense through him at the top of the key so much. He is a willing passer though.

I soured on Lee after a full year of him at center last year and him giving next to no effort on the defensive end and then he sought a contract from a team he balked at a trade to during the season (the height of disloyalty imho) and asked for astronomical numbers (12 million?) when he knew what the plan was as far as capspace. That would have been our max contract right there (Lee at 10 mil, Jeffries + Hill = 7+ mil 17+ million. FOH)

News flash _avi_ we lost 50 games last year and again this year. He can take that show on the road as far as I’m concerned.

I feel you HaS but give me one Championship team that had arguably the best PG in the league in the past 10 years.
Maybe the Pistons with Billups but that’s about it.

Name me one championship team that did not have a top five player on it.

Maybe the pistons but that’s about it.

+1 lol

Not one thing but what you said was CP3 was not, which is very debatable. But not a thing wrong with saying “I think Williams is better”

DVJ stay with me….I agree with the Okafor thing…my last point was that you where going a little to far with the “he was hurt AlOT thing”

The back surgery was done over a year ago. If not it’s almost a year.

You can drop the coming off part.

Are you trying to say that because David Lee is more athletic than Z-Bo, he is less tradeable?

That makes no sense. I get what you are saying, that Lee SHOULD be a better defender because he is more athletic, but the fact is that the athleticism is part of his game and part of why is would be more tradeable than Z-Bo.

And, I mean, not to sit here and apologize for his D, but

1.) He is playing out of position at center. Why do average centers put up huge games against Lee? Because they are just bigger than him. It’s not like he is getting schooled back to the basket. Guys like Kendrick Perkins just beast the ball over him because there he is the biggest guy on the court and who else is going to help him? But him against average PFs and it’s a much more even match up.

2.) He has taken on much of the teams offensive load, becoming our most efficient scorer. For better or worse, usually a players D takes a hit when they take on the offensive burden. The guy is doing things on the offensive end I never thought I’d ever see him do.

Bottom line: 20-10 PFs do not get the MLE. As others have mentioned, none of the other PFs are known as particularly great defenders. Boozer is a 6-9 20-10 machine. Amare runs the pick and roll and can hit the outside shot as well as any PF. Bosh can block shots but he is not a shut down defender. Considering these guys are max or close to max contracts, are they that much of an upgrade over Lee? Bosh maybe. But Amare/Boozer you’d have to do an awful lot of convincing.

Best PF in the league?

What are you smoking man?

Melo + Gay + Gallinari + Lee is not just a “playoff team” BIG, it’s clearly a contender. Be fair.

1. Not an excuse, there isn’t even 10 traditional centers in the league and regardless that wouldn’t stop him from taking a charge, challenging/contesting layups from guards in the paint or rotating out to the shooters.

2. He would be better served to let Gallinari take more of the offensive load (the “coach” has to enforce this and he takes the most blame) and concentrate on removing the red carpet and velvet ropes leading to the rim.

Bottom line: Bosh > Amar’e > Boozer > Any player who TRIES on defense > Lee.

Hey Lee bashers – go up to David’s face and tell him he can’t rebound…check last two years stats. Tell him he doesn’t play defense…he used to but this coach doesn’t preach it. If #42 was with Scott Skiles he’d play defense. He is one of the best passers in the league and plays a point guard spot at times moving the the ball. He has the best pair of hands of any big man in the game, and passes the ball better than any. check out his assists. HE IS NOT THE REASON THE KNICKS STUNK THE LAST TWO YEARS> HE IS THE REASON I WATCHED THEM BECAUSE HE IS A CLASS ACT AND PLAYS THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY!!! You Lee bashers are hopeless. You probably want Jackie Butler playing over #42. Hopefully David will be back next year and you bashers will be gone. Also if he played for Jerry Sloan instead of retreads like Brown, the moron Thomas he would have developed sooner…but then again he couldn’t have been that bad year two as he was MVP of the rookie all star game…

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