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Assets Comparison

by Tommy Dee on May 21st, 2010 at 10:29 am

Few sites have the intuitiveness that BP does. Always on the front end, always backing their data up with solid basketball facts. Here is an excerpt from a 2010 free agent preview.

Via Basketball Prospectus-

“…I promise this is not our attempt to be part of the “LeBron Please Come to New York” storyline that has cropped up recently (besides, of course, evaluating other teams as part of New York Magazine‘s feature). We came by these numbers honestly, which is not to say I necessarily believe in them. The Knicks more than any other team benefited from reassessing players and putting a premium on shooting, which was New York’s lone offensive strength in 2009-10. Every returning player on the roster shot plenty of threes, so our projections for them are much more favorable now. Toney Douglas, for example, was rated as an afterthought in March; now he looks like a potential starting point guard. That’s probably going a bit far, though certainly shooting takes on paramount importance when we’re talking about playing alongside a player like James sure to draw double-team attention.

The most stunning projection of all belongs to Bill Walker. Going on Walker’s hot shooting after the trade deadline (including 41.3 percent accuracy on threes), SCHOENE compares Walker to Reggie Miller and Peja Stojakovic, among others. Needless to say, that is a bit of a stretch. Walker was a nice pickup and should be a tremendous bargain thanks to his non-guaranteed minimum contract for 2010-11, but I’d temper those WARP projections quite a bit…more.“
  • ARNY

    comparing billy walker to peja or miller… wtf ? hAHA.. wayyyyyyy off…. with that being said… lets go knicks !!!

  • Big Blue St3

    Walker’s obviously not Peja or Miller, but I think he is talented and can be a real nice contributor off the bench. A nice spark off the bench.

  • Hydr0

    lol its funny that they already put bosh on the knicks just like the posters in the comments section do

    That being said, if we somehow land Bosh, I thin Lebron would be nuts to turn us down

    go donnie go! lol

  • JeffM729

    I’m no statisical genius but how does Brook Lopez rate a 32 projection and Joakim Noah get a 6.3, with Leon Powe 12.1 just about equal to Varajao 6.2 and Jamison 6.5.

    So having Bill Walker at 20.2 is worth more wins than Noah, Varajao, and Jamison put together. I also note that Bosh Gallo, Walker, and Chandler total 83.0 points and if you add LeBron, there just aren’t enough minutes for all five of them to play the 2,3, and 4 spots to attain that valuation.

    I’ll pass on this study.

  • italian stallion

    Tommy,

    I’m so glad you posted this because I saw that article a few days ago and meant to send it to you via twitter. I think this is by far the most objective analysis of the situation. One can only hope that Lebron’s “people” have the sophistication to at least give this kind a detailed study a good look.

    I should add one thing for others.

    Part of what’s going on here is that they are projecting the future ability of various players based on their age, position, style of play etc…and typical long term trends. That’s why some players might seem overrated or underrated based on what they’ve done so far. But there IS a sound statistical basis for these projections.

    Very encouraging document from an unbiased source.

  • HaS

    Is this guy part of the Kool-Aid Brigade?

    He must be one of the commenters here, identify yourself!

  • HaS

    Really? You would deem this “study” as objective?

    Toney Douglas is a starting point guard?

    Bill Walker is Reggie Miller?

    Chris Bosh is already on the team?

    Yea, I don’t know man hardly seems unbiased, even with the disclaimer at the beginning.

  • http://www.reeltalkblog.com Shakespeare

    WOW, JASON WHITLOCK WENT IN ON AMARE AND DWIGHT, AND I COULDN’T AGREE MORE……THAT’S WHY I WANT BOSH AND EVEN LEE OVA AMARE…

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/amare-stoudemire-dwight-howard-just-punk-kids-jason-whitlock-052010

  • ds2488

    Very interesting article. Clearly it doesn’t rate the Bulls fairly because Noah should have more value. And Bill Walker is no Reggie Miller. But Im glad to see that one site has finally given the Knicks some props for putting together some good young talent. The Knicks young talent has been consistently overlooked since ESPN has jumped into the fray, while every other team suddenly has the most amazing young talents in the league. It’s good to hear.

  • ds2488

    Thats a pretty angry article. I’ve never been a fan of Whitlock and his rants, but he’s certainly right about Amare. I think the Dwight Howard stuff is a little over the top, considering that he needs help from Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis to do anything.

    Amare is such a baby who refuses to play defense. I can’t stand players like him that blame their coaches for their shortcomings and talk like they have changed a lot and then never change at all. He’s awful on defense.

  • the oak

    I am not a big formula guy. I generally hate the Hollinger ratings etc and these are a bit of a joke in the they have Bill Walker likened to reggie Miller.

    I dont like how they came about their conclusion but I agree and it’s what I have been saying for a while now. The Knicks situation is not as bad as everyone tries to make it.

  • LebronSignAfterTheX

    I don’t even know how they come up w this.

    Explain to me how our player portion of our graph is higher or equal to any of the teams to the right of us, when we only have 4 players signed, and only 2 can be considered above average players.

    If the answer is they assumed bosh was on our team, than:

    a) how can you assume he’s on our team and none of the others;

    and

    b) why would we still have all that cap space at the top of our bar if bosh is already added.

  • http://www.reeltalkblog.com Shakespeare

    http://knicks.realgm.com/articles/53/20100517/lebrons_chances_of_winning_equally_good_in_new_york/

    If LeBron goes to Chicago, he can be absolutely sure that his legacy will continuously be lined up against Jordan’s, win for win, title for title. In New York, LeBron will have a largely blank slate but still get to play on the world’s biggest and brightest stage, in front of its best fans. One championship in New York and LeBron will have led the most remarkable transformation in NBA history. Win two as a Knick and he’s talked about as one of the greatest of our time. Three and he might be the most remarkable athlete of his generation, considering how far the Knicks fell during the tragic Isiah decade.

    The Knicks’ roster is a work in progress. I’m on record that Donnie Walsh will look to trade Eddy Curry’s expiring contract for a defensive big on a long-term deal. Think Emeka Okafor or Andris Biedrins. LeBron would also benefit playing beside a talented young shooter with size and a range of offensive skills in Danilo Gallinari, who may not be far off from Noah as a third big piece and is a rarer piece more difficult to find.

    This summer, LeBron has his eye on the Big Apple and the specter of the King calling the Garden home with a second max talent on board carries a heavy dose of intrigue, or intimidation, depending on one’s perspective.

    During the playoffs, LeBron said that Chicago is “one of the best cities you have in America.” Guess which one he thinks is the best?

    The same city that has a team that sparked this comment back in February.

    “If [the Knicks] get LeBron,” one NBA executive told Sports Illustrated, “that will be a big deal. The party’s over [for the rest of the league].”

  • miller time

    I am with Has,
    identify yourself, Tommy did you do that projection, come-on objective, hmmm dont think so. My advise is do that projecting 7-2-10.
    i am a Knick for life but i count bird in the hand not in the bush. go KNICKS

  • Lebris Jamosh aka ridiculous upside

    They plug in numbers like shooting % into their formula and come out with a player’s WARP. You can say the system is unsound but it’s definitely not biased. I doubt BP is a bunch of knick fans.

  • Lebris Jamosh aka ridiculous upside

    Whitlock is the man. I don’t take his sports opinions too seriously but he’s entertaining.

  • LBJ2010

    First off, I want to say that I’m a big fan of advanced statistics and metrics that are used in sports evaluation (huge baseball fan and I love sabermetrics). So I do find articles like this interesting.

    That being said, these projections seem to be a stretch. Of course there are going to be flaws with all statistics, but Bill Walker’s suggested career path is pretty absurd. I’m not sure how they can calculate such a meteoric rise for him based on 25-30 games at the tail end of a 50 loss season.

    What I take from this piece is pretty much what the oak said above: the Knicks’ situation is not as pathetic and dire as the haters portray it to be.

  • NoVaCaInE

    +1

    This is a load of CRAP!

  • bbrody1
  • NoVaCaInE

    Good Post.

    “I’m on record that Donnie Walsh will look to trade Eddy Curry’s expiring contract for a defensive big on a long-term deal. Think Emeka Okafor or Andris Biedrins.”

    I wouldn’t be mad at a line up of…

    PG – Douglas
    SG – LeBron
    SF – Gallo
    PF – Bosh
    C – Okafor

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    first of all that chart is retarded.
    i guess bosh is already on the team cuz the chart shows the knicks has alot of players..lmao…
    the wiz got no cap?
    it also looks like the knicks an heat got the same cap or the heat got a lil more.

    who did that a 10 year old?
    that is ridiculous.

    it’s krazy how people use programs on a computer an come up with krazyness

  • oscar f

    Tommy you posted this a few days late and it’s not even a good read because it is way off balance. This is why you can’t use number charts and systems to do what good old fashion eye scouting can do. Maybe DW used this system to draft Hill over Jennings. I agree the Knicks assets are overlooked but that break down of it leaves too many question marks to be taken seriously. New stuff please!!! I want to know who the Knicks are working out. After Jimmer I heard nothing . I still haven’t seen a read on Randle from you Tommy.

  • Lebris Jamosh aka ridiculous upside

    WARP works in an individual sport like baseball, but in basketball it makes Joakim Noah out to be a replacement level player. Basketball saber stats are definitely a little out there.

    That said, I like the fact that it brings an unconventional point of view that makes you think. Bill Walker’s projection, based on his age and production in limited time, gives you a idea of his potential. (Not saying he’ll be Reggie).

    PER is great and so is adjusted FG%. They really should wipe out regular FG% — it’s become antiquated with the amount of 3s taken since ’93. Mainstream media is just too slow to react to anything innovative and good.

  • fuhry

    You know, one thing I noticed about Walkers play down the stretch last year is the low number of MISSED shots. The number of points he scored was in the 20′s a few times, and often in the single digits. But what he didn’t do was go 4-15 from the floor.

    Efficiency. Not the number of shots you take but making the right decision on when to shoot and when to pass. I think Walker’s got that and it’s extremely valuable.

  • grahambo86

    I am with a lot of the fellas on the board here. Not really sure that article holds much water. I know the author said comparing Bill Walker to Reggie was a stretch, but still, that’s a bit much. If this article came from Bill James then Id pay more attention but it does nothing for me.

    I mean, he put Bosh on the team already, cmon now. I want Bosh with Lebron as much as the next guy but that has got to stop, until they actually sign.

  • fuhry

    Except for the fact that he did the analysis plugging in Bosh. I think that was a bit disingenous. I think it would have been stronger if he plugged in Lee. But then the Knicks might not have finished first.

    Still, an interesting read.

  • Big Blue St3

    I don’t see many Warriors games, would Bierdrins be a real option, his contract is pretty long so they might be willing to take the +2mill on EC’s contract to have the long term relief. Especially since they could potentially sign his replacement in Aldrich or Whiteside.

    Bierdrins and #35 for EC? The 2 mill additional space would leave us open to buying a late 1st and trying to use that for a young pg. Willie Warren or Terrico White maybe? While still maintaining the ability to sign 2 max. We wouldn’t have that option with Okafor, only reason I ask.

  • oscar f

    Since LBJ’s manager went on record to say that LBJ has not thought about his next destination yet and that LBJ’s team has not really reviewed his options( I already knew that) then why does Chris Broussad’s report saying he is going to Chicago with Calapri(who is on record saying he is still going to coach college) holds any weight to be strongly considered? Why?

  • grahambo86

    Andy Katz, Wilbon..many others are on record of saying Cal is not going to Chicago. Even on ESPN, in the rumor central, it says there are league sources and people in the Bulls management that said Cal is not an option. It wont stop until they finally hire a new coach which I think they would do BEFORE July 1st.

  • Jack D

    lol exactly

  • Jack D

    Are we re-signing Earl Barron? I hope he is available for cheap

  • Knicks4life

    No comment.

  • DVJ

    Men Lie Women Lie…#’s don’t.

    Great post Tommy.

  • oscar f

    Not a bad idea if you know what Bierdrins can still do . He was a high percetage scorer off put backs and garbage baskets. A decent help shot blocker and his rebounding is his bread and butter . When he was healthy he was one of the top rebounders in the league.

  • x-man

    lol I’m sure Jared Jeffries was a lethal 3 pt shooter while he was a Knick too. However Houston wanted no part of it.

    RalpheAL must be a shooting God!

    Billy Walker did shoot the ball better than I would have ever guessed. Then again, there weren’t much pressure since we had no where to go but up!

  • x-man

    Now I’m convinced and I thought hips don’t lie! Silly me. Should I buy gold DVJ?

  • YO SON

    agreed…..OFF THE BENCH……maybe way off

  • oscar f

    No Barron commands near max money because he is a proven player with a reliable history in the NBA. Maybe the top center in the east next season or maybe in reality he would be happy just to be on an NBA roster even at min wage.

  • TobyKnight

    Not sure if this within the realm of reality, but Philly is looking to possibly trade the 2nd pick in the draft to a team willing to take Elton Brand’s ugly contract off of their hands.
    I’m assuming they want a real asset AND the taking of Brand off of their hands: i.e., a high pick in this draft. I wonder if they would be open to a trade of Chandler and Curry for Brand and the #2 pick. Philly would get a good player in Chandler, who could play the 2 and 3. Curry’s contract represents a great trade asset that they can convert for something they actually can use.
    The Knicks could use Brand as their PF and Turner would be a Stud at the 2. Perhaps the only way that this trade can be made is if the Knicks trade Curry for a piece that Philly actually wants (not sure what) and the Knicks package Chandler with the asset desired by Philly for the #2 pick and Brand’s contract. How about Curry for Okafor and Marcus Thames. Knicks trade Chandler and Thames and a future, lottery protected 1st rounder for Brand and Turner.
    OK, even I’m not buying this could actually happen, but if it did, we could be looking at a lineup of:

    Douglas (1 mil)
    Turner (3.7 mil)
    LBJ (16 mil)
    Brand (17 mi)
    Okafor (11 mil)

    Bench
    Gallo
    Walker
    Barron
    #2 pick
    #2 pick
    #1 pick (acquired from Atlanta or Memphis)

    Philly gets two good players, a future pic (likely not a great one), and they rid themselves of Brand’s horrible contract. Is it worth it to them? Who would offer them something better? Who has the cap space to afford Brand?

    Major question is whether Brand can play in SSOL. Not ideal for it, but he adds a lot of toughness on D. He and Okafor could help defend Howard, and the Celtics front line. D’Antoni can play Gallo extensively off of the bench at either the 3 or the 4. Will be all about matchups.

    If we were able to pull this off, we would have three potential all stars on the team: LBJ, Turner, and Gallo. And we would have some really strong defense. You might have to get a different coach if D’antoni can’t adjust to this personnel, but I’m guessing LBJ would not overlook the talent on this team.
    Thoughts?
    Medication if you think I need some after this proposal?

  • YO SON

    word..

  • oscar f

    Yeah they do lie because if you never watched an NBA Game you would probably say based on numbers David Lee is top 3 in amongst big men in the league. That is a lie.

  • jingo

    No one here has given Bosh to the Knicks. The presumption is that having Lebron will make the Knicks attractive to someone like Bosh. Part of the sell to Lebron will be giving him his choice of sidekick.

    Based on things I’ve heard him say, I don’t think Bosh would even consider the Knicks unless he knew Lebron was coming with him.

  • oscar f

    Yeah right ! If thats true my real name is Bill Clinton. If that were true however despite it sounding fictional the Knicks would be stupid not to jump all over that situation. Im not sure if Curry’s contract could absorb Brand’s but i will check now. What is your info source in this .

  • DVJ

    Let’s see

    Howard
    Bosh
    Maybe Amare (even though he’s getting abused in the WCF)
    Duncan is old as is Garnett. What big man is next?

    What other big man would you take before Lee?
    No shots..just asking a question.

  • oscar f

    Don’t like that line up.

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    that chart is as accurate as JARED from 3

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    yea barron’s demanding the samething LEE IS………….

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    that post is as great as JARED on a layUP

  • bmathews77

    While I do see the excitement in wanting the #2 pick in the draft, no way would I take on 4 years at $14 mill for Elton Brand who’s like 31. He’s been injured way too much in his career and he’s more of a half court player than a Mike D’Antoni type player. I personally would rather let Curry’s contract come off the books after next season or see if I can trade Curry.

  • oscar f

    Dirk. Garnett, Duncan,Horford,Gasol,Bynum,Bogut,CK,Boozer,Ect the list just goes on and i actually like David Lee.

  • Mucha

    You can’t blindly trust the numbers. This analysis is not accurate in my opinion.

    But I think the New York Knicks are at least as attractive as the Chicago Bulls and the New Jersey Nets in terms of “assets” (capspace, draft picks and players).

  • Mucha

    + 1

  • DVJ

    Your high
    Why is Boozer better than Lee?
    Horford?
    Bynum?
    I’ll give you Dirk and Gasol because simply put..they are better.

    However, if you think Horford, Bynum, Bogut, Boozer and Kaman (LMAO) are better than Lee…then we already know where your mind state is.

    Lee led the league in double doubles last year and came in 2nd this year.
    His rebounding is off the charts and he averages more points than each of them except Dirk and Gasol.

    Na homey………try again.

  • oscar f

    It all depends on the cap which will determine the exact number of cap space the knicks will have . While I would love to get Turner because he will be one of those types of players the knicks never get in the draft, I wouldn’t risk Losing Bosh. The Knicks with the cap as is predicted to be would only have enough $ for LBJ and maybe David Lee or Boozer. A front court of Lee,Brand, and Gallo is not sexy but pairing LBJ and Turner would be dangerous. Turner will probably be the best and most ready player in this draft. Donnie would have to atleast consider it as an option, especially if Bosh goes to Houston. Again @ Tobyknight what is your source are or you just making up crap.

  • x-man

    Somebody needs a CAT scan! Meow!

  • x-man

    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If LBJ likes a person with equal or less money he can get from somewhere else , has a big fat a-s-s (not PHAT) hammer toes, can’t get a date and a horrible dad, our Knicks are his girl!

  • oscar f

    You couldn’t trade Lee (if he was under contract long term) for any of the those guys. GM’swould hang up on you .

  • DVJ

    The Knicks are the best place for Lebron to play next year hands down.
    He’s not winning a championship next year anyway unless he goes to Orlando or the Lakers. He’ll never go to the Celtics and those are the only 3 teams that have a legitimate shot at the Chip.

  • Lebris Jamosh aka ridiculous upside

    Lee isn’t half the player that Horford, Bynum, Boozer, Bogut are. Those dudes have an impact on the game. Lee doesn’t.

  • DVJ

    Oscar, who mentioned anything about trading Lee?

    Go outside and enjoy the weather.

  • Lebris Jamosh aka ridiculous upside

    FAIL!

  • Mucha

    New York Knicks :

    - Key players : Danilo Gallinari and 1 MAX FA (Chris Bosh preferably)
    - Trade assets : Wilson Chandler and Eddy Curry’s expiring contract
    - Role players : Toney Douglas and Bill Walker

    Chicago Bulls :

    - Key Players : Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and Luol Deng
    - Trade assets : Kirk Hinrich’s expiring contract
    - Role players : Taj Gibson, James Johnson

    It is very close on paper in my opinion. If the Knicks sign Chris Bosh I think we’ll definitely have a better supporting cast to offer because Chris Bosh and Danilo Gallinari will hugely benefit from playing with LeBron James and vice-versa. More than Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah in my opinion.

  • x-man

    LOL Maybe our girl has a nice personality. That should count for something huh? Our KEY players are 50% unknown! Chicago has a first rate QB, A nice defensive lineman and a decent receiver. Our role players may be our best players! You’re killing me Mucha! lol

  • Knicks4life

    “He’ll never go to the Celtics and those are the only 3 teams that have a legitimate shot at the Chip.”

    Why not?

  • YO SON

    Yo I don’t know what’s worse the fact that he took the time to make this trade and type all that sht out or the fact that someone would actually agree to this and be so gun ho about it on top of that…hahaha that’s a horrible idea and line up……brand is DONE……he destroyed the chemistry and they played better without him in the lineup while he was injured….they like to run…we prefer to run……..not sayin 7sol …..but running or having the ability to run when necessary is a must….brand pounds and pounds and pounds the ball to make a move….okafur is worse….they both are plotters…u wasted 2 years while trying to relieve cap space and you guys want to take even more garbage back and there horrible contracts……dang homiez….u guys love serious injury prone bbasketball players especially with back problems……and horrific contracts….hahaha….AMAZING…….

    oh and ps turner will not be better then ILL WILL….especially for the next 3 years which would be a waste for lebron to come here if that’s the case…and your trading for a #2pic which is going to require #2 money……….son……………….

  • Big Blue St3

    Is he at least willing to get in the lane and take a charge, I didn’t even realize he was injured. That’s how much I pay attention to Donnie and Crew.

  • YO SON

    there’s no vice versa in Lebron playing with gallo as a benifit 4 him…plz……who should be the #1trade chip if anybody outside of curry…………….

  • oscar f

    The thing with LBJ on Chicago is that in a line up with Deng,Rose and Noah it would be easy for teams to drop off him and go into a zone because there is no strong shooters on that team. Also if the bulls give LBJ max money they wont have enough to add a legit post player meaning the team will be a perimeter team that can’t shoot. While they would be a good defensive team they would be a poor offensive team that could be defended easily by teams like Boston and Orlando. Sound familiar? I actually see it as a down grade to Cleveland(who outplayed them in the playoffs) in being more suited for LBJ. Atleast the Cavs have shooters and somewhat of a post presense.

  • YO SON

    boozer always finds away to fold in the clutch..impact player until the 4the quarter…just saying…..

  • YO SON

    win people use lee numbers for an example of value and or productivity is a clear distinction of why #’z lie 2………

    as the great Flava Flav from PUBLIC ENEMY(L I)

    once said DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE………..

  • x-man

    Dude, Rose almost single handed beat the Celtics last year inthe playoffs. It went to 7 games. They couldn’t stop him. A good coach would tell Rose to go into this off-season and work on his short range and long range jumper more so. Rose can get into the paint like Rondo at will.

    The Bulls could surely use a bonafide SG but Hinrich would propser with LBJ on that team. Alll he has to do is stand still in a location like Kerr and Paxton used to do when MJ was the man in Chicago.

    I ask you, Is it easier to go out and get a dude that can shoot than getting all the pieces we would need on our team to be a contender?

    Also, Deng would be a much better player imo with LBJ on the court.

  • YO SON

    when’

  • EQ1217

    “How about Curry for Okafor and Marcus Thames”

    Isn’t Marcus Thames a Yankee?

  • trenttucker

    I did like that the article values Bosh way over Stoudemire. I hate Amare. He’s only slightly better than David Lee.

    I am now wondering if we have to make a power move for Carmelo. Gallo and Curry for Melo? Is there any way they do that? Then we use the other $17m in cap space for a good-not-great PG and center (I’m still for Felton and Haywood).

    Felton
    LeBron
    Melo
    Chandler
    Haywood

    Yum.

  • DVJ

    Oh yeah….Ben Gordon had nothing to do with it.

    Damn x-man…you walked right into that.

  • LBJ2010

    Good post, but Hinrich’s not expiring. He comes off the books after 2011-12.

  • oscar f

    The Bulls lost this year in the first round to a team that lost to the same Celtics team. Why because they no longer have Gordon, and Salmons who were crucial in that failed surge against Boston. Gordon and Salmons are shooters. You need shoters and a legit post player to win rings dude. The Bulls with a line up of
    PG Rose
    SG LBJ
    SFdeng
    PF Gibson
    C Noah
    Lacks both. A perimeter team with no shooters= playoff fail. No team has done it like that. You atleast need shooters. That team can’t beat Orlando or Boston.

  • oscar f

    Felton= Duhon with a better handle.

  • x-man

    lmao! Last year, Ben played ok at times but did you know then EVERY game Ben Gordon was the high scorer (3 playoffs games) the Bulls lost?

    When Derrick Rose was the high scorer ( 2 playoff games), the Bulls won and the other game they won, Derrick Rose was the 2nd high scorer and Ben only score 12 pts.!

    Ben Gordon was not the factor you think in the Bulls winning 3 of the games in the palyoffs series to take it to a 7th game.

    If I walked into that, you surely sat in it! lol

  • JeffM729

    You forget that Chicago has sign and trade possibilities, along with a first round draft pick. What if they sign LeBron and send Deng back to Cleveland, then sign Bosh, and draft a shooter like James Anderson or Xavier Henry. That gives them; Rose, Henry/Anderson, James, Bosh, and Noah, with Hinrich, Gibson, and Johnson on the bench.. That’s a championship contender starting 5.

    My problem with the Knicks is that Gallo, Chandler, and Walker are all pretty much made superfluous if LeBron and Bosh sign with the Knicks. They are nice, young players and would benefit from adding a solid center and point guard. Adding two forwards that are going to play major minutes, reduces their value.

    Gallo, Walker, and Chandler are all ideally playing the same position as LeBron. It might make for a great fantasy roster, but not a real NBA team.

  • x-man

    Read my post to DVJ and look this up! I saw the games and you would be amazed at how much a role Ben Gordon played in the 3 games the Bulls won!

    Please check it out and then I’ll be happy to put in a word for 2 for 1 CAT scan for you and DVJ. I always try to find help for my fellow Knicks Fans. I beleive in tough luv but it’s luv nevertheless. lol

  • oscar f

    Gallinari is Italian for great shooter.

  • JeffM729

    Not sure that Edy Curry is worth more than a warm cup of spit. We couldn’t get anything for Marbury. Last year we tried to move Harrington, who could actually play and had an expiring contract. No luck there either. The only way we get anything for him is to take back a worse contract, which makes his value zero.

  • bbrody1

    he means marcus thornton

    i’d only consider that trade if it involved holiday, other wise no thank you on brand making 17 mil

    no way the sixer would make that trade though, theyd have no team left and their lineup up of holiday,turner, iguodala, brand, dalembert doesn’t look too bad anyways

  • x-man

    Hvae you got up and wiped your a-s-s off yet DVJ? Hurry up before others catch that smell on ya! lol

    I might beat up on ya at times but U R still the man! You’re like family in that only WE can beat up on ya!

    Nobody better mess with ya outside this family dude!

  • Big Blue St3

    I don’t know about way off….he’s young athletic and is pretty efficient. You can do a lot worse for a guys thats 3rd or 4th off the bench.

  • oscar f

    NO post players no shooters = No rings . Examine the Champions over the last decade or so. Case closed.

  • bbrody1

    i disagree, there no reason you couldn’t play a lineup of lebron – gallo/walker/chandler – bosh

    all three of them are wing players

    bron gallo bosh would rival allen pierce garnet as thebest 2-3-4 combination in the league

  • bbrody1

    i don’t think we wanted anything that was going to take up cap space which is why did make any of those trades, we’re trading for different reasons now not really comparable

  • Hydr0

    I’ve seen plenty of fantasy rosters on this blog that have bosh without lebron too. And if bosh can sign for more money via sign and trade with Miami or Chicago, I bet he goes there instead of the knicks even if Lebron shows up here. Remember C.R.E.A.M. applies in most cases.

    I just thought it was funny that the guy who ran these stats just took the liberty to throw bosh on the team too. Trust me I want that scenario, but why does everyone just take bosh coming here as a given if Lebron shows up?

  • TobyKnight

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16106/sixers-shopping-no-2-pick

    A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers’ No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.

    The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he’s virtually impossible to trade.

    As much as teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, for instance, love Evan Turner, I don’t think they love him that much.

  • http://www.reeltalkblog.com Shakespeare

    Yea I’d def prefer Biedrins ova Okafor, he’s bigger, and is a better rebounder and runs the floor better than okafor as well…..

    only issue w/ Biedrins is he can’t shoot, he’s a worse shooter than Darko is, and for sum reason can’t hit a free-throw any more, he was like 42% at one point this season….but he’s a legit 6’11, and would be nice to go up against perkins, dwight, bynum, etc….

  • Big Blue St3

    I agree ds…I was just saying the same thing the other day how it’s annoying to hear about how great all these other teams young talent is while the Knicks talent is completely overlooked. I don’t want to overhype Gallo and company but there is talent there and youth and to just be like “all the Knicks can offer is 2 max and nothing else to build on” is complete garbage. As a 2nd or 3rd option Gallo can be a star I think. He’s got some passion and hustle and with a real superstar like Bron he would benefit from the double teams that would come with playing with him. I think he really showed at the end of the year his willingness and ability to put the ball on the floor against smaller guys and get to the rim, and score with contact. And if we hang on to Wilson our length 2-4 would be incredible.

  • TobyKnight

    Sorry about that. Getting my sports wires crossed.

    I don’t disagree with the folks who say that Brand isn’t a fit at all, and it may be foolish to take on his contract. I was really just curious if it was worth it to take up one of our max slots with someone with limited value to us, like Brand, if it meant we could acquire someone with as much upside as Turner.

    bbrody1 are you proposing a trade of Curry and Wilson for Brand and Holiday?

  • young hova

    Are you just ignoring that Gordon had the ball in his hands every time the game was on the line and hit every big shot, because just throwing out how much they scored isn’t nearly as important as the situations they were scored in

  • LBJ2010

    The idea that the Cavs would accept Deng in a sign and trade for LeBron is absolutely ridiculous. Deng is a career 15 and 6 player, who is scheduled to make around $50 mil over the next 4 years. He’ll be making $14M in 2013-14. If the Cavs lose LeBron, they’d be better off losing him for nothing than taking back some hideous long-term contract in exchange. Deng does nothing for the Cavs except leave them capped out for the foreseeable future while allowing them to possibly compete for the 8 seed every year.

  • Big Blue St3

    That surgery only had a 4-6 week recovery time, so even at 6 weeks he’s had a month to start getting back into shape and strengthening his abs.

    I see what you’re saying about the shooting but he’s only 24, looks like he will at least throw his body in the way and box out. Seems like he could do as much for us as Perkins does for the Celts. I could live with the poor shooting as long as he’s snatching up his teammates misses and putting them back.

  • young hova

    I don’t care what rumor has been said there is ZERO chance that the Cavs take Deng for Lebron in a sign and trade. Getting a bad contract back in return for Lebron is worse than letting him leave flat out and, yes Deng is a bad contract and is a guy who was highly overrated earlier in his career

  • Big Blue St3

    For real Tommy D, last year we knew who was in an out. Just because we don’t have a 1st rounder doesn’t mean we’re not interested.

  • Big Blue St3

    +1 YO, Lee’s numbers are super inflated because he was the only scoring option as long as Duhon was in the game, and whenever Duhon didn’t pass Lee would just run to the rim to get the rebound off Duhon’s brick.

    And this is coming from a white guy who wishes Lee played more like a white guy in the NBA. WTF the Knicks would get the only white big man who’s staple in the NBA isn’t hustle and defense.

  • Big Blue St3

    +10

  • bbrody1

    I was saying the only i’d consider the brand/#2pick trade was if it was curry/chandler or maybe curry/chandler/td for Brand/Holiday/#2 pick. If we struck out on the big free agents this would be a pretty good trade to do b/c while we’re wasting money on brand the fact is when you look at what your paying for the combo of brand/holiday/turner its pretty good. If this happened then i’d sign amir johnson to split minutes with brand while looking to trade for a center, or just overpay for haywood. I can’t see the sixers making this trade though, it just doesnt make sense for them

    holiday – 2nd rounder – td
    turner –
    gallo – walker
    brand – johnson
    ? – 2nd rounder – barron? haywood?

    obviously i don’t want this line up but it could be a plan x, y, or z if we f up

    if melo is serious about wanting to play in ny i wonder if the nuggets would entertain the idead of taking lee/chandler for him. They’re prob gonna look into trading martin, he comes off the books after next season, and they”l prob be looking to replace him instead of resigning him.
    holiday-turner-melo would be nasty and you could rotate gallo at the four and play small for some parts of the game.

  • Big Blue St3

    Yeah Jeff were actually willing to take back talent that’s not expiring any more. That’s going to open a lot more trades for us, and 11mill is a lot to come off the books next year.

  • TobyKnight

    I think we would all do that trade: Curry, TD and Chandler for Brand, Holiday, and Turner. No way Philly does it though. BTW – We would not necessarily have to include Curry in the deal. We would have the cap space to take Brand back without sending Curry to philly. Though they may want his contract as a trade asset.

    Holiday
    Turner
    LBJ
    Gallo
    Haywood(?)

    That would be an amazing lineup. No way it happens.

    Here is what I posted on ESPN’s discussion:

    Who could afford to take back Brand without giving a big contract back to Philly?
    Nets could with their cap space, but while they would like Turner, they have Lee already at that spot and they would benefit more from Favors.
    Clippers – yeah right, like they would take him back
    ‘Sota – He is totally redundant with Love and Jefferson. No way.
    Chicago – No. Redundant with Noah and they are going to sign a max FA.
    Knicks – Maybe. They have the room to take on his contract and still sign LBJ. Brand is a bad fit for the Knicks style, but perhaps could be useful for certain matchups. In essence the Knicks would be paying $20 mil a year for Turner. If Turner is the next Brandon Roy, then maybe it is worth it for them. Brand might have some value, and in two years they could trade his expiring for a decent asset.
    Knicks are probably Philly’s best bet, but is there anyone the Knicks can send them to make it worth it for Philly? Wilson Chandler? Gallo (won’t happen). Tony Douglas? Curry’s expiring?

  • http://www.reeltalkblog.com Shakespeare

    well i know u and I can, but can d’antoni??? lol, darko avg’d almost a double double for minny, but because he couldn’t shoot from 18-20feet, d’antoni didn’t play him…but still agree w/ his defense he would be a perfect fit at center in this system…..

  • http://www.reeltalkblog.com Shakespeare

    only way i’d even think about this, is if we can include the wiz and take arenas instead of brand and send brand to washington…..

    and who says the knicks would absolutely take turner??? why not a bigg like cousins??? then we’d come out of the draft w/ our 2biggest needs a pg and a center….

    arenas
    lebron
    gallo
    bosh
    cousins

  • Mucha

    The Cavs will never sign and trade James for Deng lol.

    Don’t trust Clown Broussard.

  • ARNY

    reggie used to take 25 to 30 shots during big games.. and yes i must agree , we was water every time … some games he would come off a 20 point game , and the next game he wouldnt even see the ball !!! im so happy tmnt is gone..

  • YO SON

    he went hollywood st. and started feeling himself and 4got certain elements of the game that the last pic in the draft especially pf /c needs 2 play like(pacifically on the defense end)………..

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    u should quote something from RAKIM next he’s from L.I too.lol…

  • JeffM729

    Maybe they equal 2-3-4 of the Celtics, but then you have Rondo (the best player on the green meenies) and Perkins lining up against Walker and Chandler.

    That’s the difference.

  • JeffM729

    So exactly what type of player do you think Curry’s expiring contract will bring back?

  • YO SON

    and u know this maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

    aahaahhahaa………notice how the BEST are ………………….

  • Skot

    That’s because the Knicks are the only team that can add 2 max players. All other teams are evaluated based on getting only LeBron. Having said that, even though I don’t think this was biased simply because it was based on stats, I don’t fully subscribe to this. I don’t think Bill Walker is anywhere close to Reggie Miller nor should Toney Douglas rate so high already. But I do believe LeBron will have the most success in New York than any other city if another max player plays along with him.

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    lol.don’t get me started man
    pmd is ight.
    the hardest yall had was public enemy.
    an i’m not even gonna speak of RA.

    little vic got some good tracks..

  • YO SON

    that’s sad…..wish him and his family the best

  • Big Blue St3

    It could bring back a variety of things, but most likely a defensive big with a long term over inflated contract like Okafor or Bierdrins, And with Bosh basically saying he waiting to see where Bron goes, with the Knicks on his short list I’m very excited about the possibility of Bron and Bosh coming here.

    11 mill is a decent chunk to lose next season when theres a few good FA’s again next year.

    EC for Bierdrins and the 35th pick
    Buy a late first (which with the 2 mill were saving on Bierdrins contract this year we can afford to do and still sign 2 max) and draft a pg.
    Now our assets are:
    Gallo
    Wilson
    Bierdrins
    TD
    Walker
    1st rd pg
    2nd rnd
    2nd rnd

    If we sign Bron and Bosh

    (Bledsoe /Warren / White)
    LBJ
    Gallo
    Bosh
    Bierdrins

    with Wilson, TD, Walker,Barron and the 2 2nd rounders on the bench.

    Use the MLE next year on another big for the bench.

    Very big athletic team and with Wilson and TD coming off the bench we’d have a nice defensive pieces that can score coming off the bench.

  • YO SON

    yea no need to speak of the GOAT if not 1 of(reffering to the letter R)

    yo u said epmd is ight………. WHAT…..

    leaders of the new school………….

    keith murray…….

    craig mack (just found out that he was from li no that he matters but Im saying)put badboy on the map with flavor in your ear

    prodigy of mob deep from Hempstead as well as meth……

    ll really from L I but stunt and reps queens which is all good……..

    busta is not busta if it wasnt for
    L I (REAL TALK)……but he plays himself and becomes a after thought…..

    etc. etc………

  • Mucha

    You’re right my bad

  • HaS

    “But I think the New York Knicks are at least as attractive as the Chicago Bulls and the New Jersey Nets in terms of “assets” (capspace, draft picks and players).”

    fixed.

  • HaS

    “bron gallo bosh would rival allen pierce garnet as thebest 2-3-4 combination in the league”

    LMAO

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    i know about P P been fell off
    pmd is ight.eric sermon is gay….

    keith M got some tracks

    the best from L.O.N.S was charlie brown
    but they was also ight.

    as for RA his good stuff are in the 80′s all his 90′s stuff is trash.
    he’s not even in my top 10 of all time neither is biggie or gayZ…

    i’m a real hip hop fan…

  • HaS

    “Yum.”?

    Really?

    Wow.

  • YO SON

    whoa ..so who is in your top 5 then……..

  • gbaked

    This.

    The study also underrates Wil IMO.

    I think Bully is gonna surprise a bunch of people, and its nice to see that a study based on numbers compairs him to some great players.

    I wouldnt say its perfect, but its a good read. Unlike others, this BP is doing a solid job.

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    kool g rap
    masta ace
    big l
    ras kass
    lord finesse

    thats off my head

  • HaS

    Wow, I thought you had lost it when you said Dwight Howard was the 2nd best player in the NBA, now _avi_ is a top 5 PF in the league.

    SMH

    Get help, man. Seriously.

    No shots.

  • HaS

    Black Thought

    Pharoahe Monch

    Nas

    Elzhi

  • HaS

    Jay Electronica

  • HaS

    “However, if you think Horford, Bynum, Bogut, Boozer and Kaman (LMAO) are better than Lee…then we already know where your mind state is.”

    Really man, really?

    I’ve got to start scrolling past your posts man, I think my head is going to explode.

    LOL

  • http://www.youtube.com/tharealest62qb DaGawD_KnowLedge

    thats my top 5 of all time.

    i don’t listen to no1 from the south
    they destroyed real hip hop an corny nigz in general killed it..

  • x-man

    Yep, the Bulls had a big fat “L” when Ben Gordon went off in some of those games. Ben scores but he’s not always efficient in terms of helping them win in that series. That’s my pt.

  • miller time

    Hey Tommy did the projecting had Eddie Curry compared to Ewing or Reid

  • bbrody1

    i dont get why thats funny?

  • bbrody1

    i agree that is the difference, theres major holes at the 1 and 5, and hopefully if lebosh happens they can use cahndler and curry to fix it