TKB.tv: NBA Finals

So if the Lakers length is so dominating int he playoffs — preventing teams from utilizing the three shot — how in the world is this “Coach” we have going to get any traction in the playoffs?

It seems he has an aversion to using players with “length” and would rather play small ball.

We play small ball because we have to.
Back In Phoenix mike didn’t do that his teams matched up just fine.
Quit with The Mike hate God.

Knicks working out Ishmael Smith ? I am a huge Wake fan only problem I have with Ish is he is a little out of control at times

Who did he use at Center?

He quit because Kerr brought in Shaq and he couldnt get past Duncan and the Spurs.

Its a legit question.

Amare! and when Amare was hurt Kurt Thomas.
How are they small ball centers?

Is that the dude that used to play point when he would play alongside Teague?

I saw him play live and was impressed with him. I thought he was a better pure point than Teague (obviously not as talented though).

Yea He Played with Teague.
It was hard having them on the floor together because Ish was the better Point but Teague was the better Scorer..
So when Dino put Ish at the 1 and Teague at the 2 Our team would play ok but Teague would disappear. And he wouldn’t dare put Ish at the 2 his Jumpshot is his weakness but he has been working on it though.

There is nothing wrong with playing small ball. D’Antoni, however, ascribes to it exclusively, opting to not play a big lineup. It’s the rigidity of approach and dogged adherence to not playing a center and not working on defense that doomed D’Antoni in Phoenix.

It is a legit question. Although Shaq is hardly a good example, he’s been dead weight for years now.

I think the Lakers dominate with size, but we saw how tough PHX was for them. They were that close to stealing game 5 which could have been the series if they had won.

I tend to think it works both ways, as long as your small ball center and the rest of the team chip in to rebound. But its just as difficult for big teams to matchup to smaller quicker teams.

It didn’t work for us at all this year because David Lee had terribly misleading rebounding numbers and was not good at boxing his man out at all. To add to that, we had like no other even decent rebounders on the team, although I’ll point out that the game Dlee missed was one of the only games where we won the rebounding battle with the other team.

But I really think it can work.

My Point Is D’Antoni doesn’t equal Small Ball he just plays it with us because of what he has to work with.

I think you can be a good team with small ball if you have good Perimeter Defenders like with Houston but you see how far it got them.

I don’t think that’s really true though. He had Darko who he could have stuck with a little longer this year. I don’t by any means think Darko would have been a difference maker, but it would have been more enjoyable to watch than Lee just standing and watching other guards go into the paint.

Dantoni’s philosophy is basically founded on smallball. I do think he wanted to give Shaq a try though, that was at least the story he told after the trade was made. I don’t think he really balked until Kerr tryed to force him to change his philosophy a little, which lets face it was just stupid and blew up in both Kerr’s and Dantoni’s faces.

Dantoni could have played Lee and Darko or Lee and Hill this year but chose not to. He had players to play more traditionally with but he chose not to. Anyway, Im just trying to forget about this year. Really poor coaching job imo.

I don’t think D’antoni has an aversion to size, he just has a jones for speed. He likes bigs who can run the floor. Unfortunately, bigs with size AND can get up and down the court are few and far between. D’antoni needs to adjust if he can’t find an adequate 5 who meets those qualifications.

Thing with Mike is if your an Offensive Liability you won’t play.

agreed. Which is why I found the Hill benching all the more frustrating and inexplicable. I don’t care how raw he is, but he should have been perfect for Mike’s system. And at least he blocked shots and tryed to contest others.

I think any logical person would wait to see what the roster looks like before talking about the team moving foward. We already have good length with the young players…

But thats the weird thing: Jeffries seemingly had unlimited minutes. And all he did was help on team defense.

Now people have claimed that was to increase his trade value, but I don’t see it. Jeffries was still pretty much untradeable, as was shown by the crazy amount of picks they had to give up just to get rid of his contract a year early.

I think it was a massive miscalculation by both DW and Dantoni. They would have been better served just playing Hill all those minutes. If they could increase his trade value, maybe it could have just been Hill and Jeffries for Tmac? I don’t know, I still can’t get over that whole situation. It really was confusing and perplexing to me.

We was just showcasing JJ thats why I dont really count him. But Darko but it does explain the lack of PT for a lot of players.

Rubio wont go to the Wolves…Hes playing the game because technically he has to…He Doesn’t want to kill the Wolves leverage by saying he definitely wont go…

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgaFZz0VRmHav4TCo1NdJ3M5nYcB?slug=ap-rubio-timberwolves

D’Antoni’s never had a quick gifted big that can run the floor like is predicated for his system.

If he had a chance to plug in athletic bigs with length, players like Gasol, Odom, Nowitski, he’d play them.

And then there’d be some other reason to hate him.

Can we wait until D’antoni has a real team first? You guys keep trashing him. If Donnie surrounds him with defensive players and they still don’t play defense then we can bash him.

It’s unfair to criticize interior defense when you have Lee at the 5 and Harrington at the 4.

but its not unfair to question why he had to keep playing Lee and Harrington. He had Darko and Hill, both much better defenders collecting dust on the bench for most of the year. Game changers? Probably not, but I still would have liked to see him try.

Better than going 70 games getting killed with Lee as the 5, and then suddenly plugging a dleaguer in there at the end. Doesn’t make much sense…

Who was criticizing interior defense?

I was commenting on the earlier complaints that D’Antoni doesn’t play bigs.

And I said he would if he had the bigs that play his style and fit his system.

I understand why Mike doesn’t play Rookies a lot of minutes. First of all he’s never had to coach a team that was developing young talent and with his system giving rookies the green light could get out of hand, I mean with Veterans Its Kinda out of hand.

I agree he should of played Hill, I think that’s one both Walsh and D’Antoni gave up on too soon.

Don’t feel that way about Darko, he’s never lived up to his hype and tends to disappear amongst the crowd.

Again, Amar’e is not a Center.

Phoenix gave the Lakers the Lakers problems, but they did not start Amar’e at Center.

Amar’e was not the starting Center for the Phoenix Suns this year.

When did Rubio tell you this?

yea I didn’t say you were criticzing him, I was agreeing with you and going off ur comment when u said he hasn’t had the right big for his system yet.

Sure we had Darko and Hill on the bench, but if they played we wouldn’t have won more games. D’antoni was trying to get wins. His goal was to make the playoffs this year. I was screaming for Darko and Hill like everyone else here, but I ‘kind of’ understand why coach didn’t play them. He felt they had a better chance with Lee/Harrington and co.

“And I said he would if he had the bigs that play his style and fit his system.”

Name a big that “play(s) his style and fit(s) his system.”

My bad.

And I agree D’Antoni played who he thought gave him the best chance to win.

Problem was with the roster he had, he had co chance.

Named them earlier if you read the whole post and didn’t cherry pick.

Comment by jg1170
2010-06-04 22:34:00
Who was criticizing interior defense?
I was commenting on the earlier complaints that D’Antoni doesn’t play bigs.
And I said he would if he had the bigs that play his style and fit his system.

Comment by jg1170
2010-06-04 22:14:18
D’Antoni’s never had a quick gifted big that can run the floor like is predicated for his system.
If he had a chance to plug in athletic bigs with length, players like Gasol, Odom, Nowitski, he’d play them.
And then there’d be some other reason to hate him.

I think any athletic big that can get up and down can play in his system:

Amare
Camby
Chris Andersen
Tyson Chandler
Dalembert
Howard
JaVale Mcgee
Noah
Bosh

to name a few…

Odom definitely not a center.

Nowitzki not a center.

Gasol can play center, but how many big men come along as skilled as him? If the Knicks have to wait until the “next Gasol” comes along for _’antoni to play a center then they might as well send him packing now.

And Amare can play center

The center position is different in the NBA now than it was 10-15 years ago. Sorry

Ditto

And that’s a better list than I offered.

We Are Talking About Mike D’Antoni..So what position Amare played this year is irrelevant.

I mean the position Amare Played With Mike.

Amare – not a center.
Camby – would probably play sparingly if at all un _’antoni.
Chris Andersen – would never play for _’antoni at all.
Tyson Chandler – definitely wouldn’t get playing time.
Dalembert – absolutely is not a _’antoni-type player.
Howard – he’d have been a “bad rookie” under this “coach”.
JaVale Mcgee – _’antoni would forget how to say his name.
Noah – LOL would never play under _’antoni.
Bosh – not a center.

LOL

kahn is the fool for selecting him
rubio gave a list of teams he won’t play for an the wolves was 1 of them kahn was trying to call rubio’s bluff but rubio didn’t fold

“The center position is different in the NBA now than it was 10-15 years ago. Sorry”

Do me a favor and take a look at the Finals or even the Conference Finals.

an thats the truth…

keep it coming HaS

kurt Thomas another 6’9″ center

Exactly, I’m talking about Mike _’antoni as well. He needs to adjust his philosophy and learn to play with a traditional Center. Gentry did an admirable job this year infusing some true size into the lineup. Not only by playing a true Center in Brooke Lopez, but also by shifting Amar’e to his natural position at PF.

A former Knicks…. wait for it… wait for it… Power Forward.

I realize I can’t win since HaS has been posting for a while, and I never really have before. But I don’t think those reasons are valid.

I don’t want all those players especially Dalembert, but I think on a well constructed team he is the ‘type’ that would fit. Long, athletic, defense oriented, can alter shots

Anyway I was just naming those guys off the top of my head, but the center position has changed. If Kendrick Perkins is a Center, then Amare is a Center

Yeah but thats not what me and biggie were discussing.

“It seems he has an aversion to using players with “length” and would rather play small ball.”

I beg to differ.

They aren’t but his is the funniest. So people go along with it.

“Long, athletic, defense oriented, can alter shots”

You’ve just described the antithesis of a _’antoni player.

I disagree. But tell me what D’antoni looks for in a big. What does he want his bigs to do if it’s not what I mentioned.

You guys give him a hard time, and he’s had a terrible team for two years.

If ‘good’ coaches in the NBA can win games no matter who is on their team, then why did Doc Rivers win 21 games a few years ago with Tmac in his prime? And Phil Jackson couldn’t get out of the first round with Kobe in ’06 and ’07

u do know pierce was injured most of that season rite but he made sure he played when they played the knicks an single handedly beat the knicks that years i’m not saying they would of win alot more game if pierce wasn’t injured but still there best player was hurt..

this knicks roster is way better than what the celtics had that year

Yea and believe it or not Amare may not be Defense Oriented but when he played Center for Mike he did alter shots.
He may not be Dwight Howard but Amare does challenge some David Doesn’t do.

“I disagree. But tell me what D’antoni looks for in a big. What does he want his bigs to do if it’s not what I mentioned.”

Someone who can play in the pick and roll or preferably shoot the ball with range (preferably out to 3 point line).

“Defensive oriented, can alter shots” is the last thing that _’antoni thinks of when deciding who can play in his system.

this dude tried to aquate Amare being a Center to probably the Second Best Defensive Center in the league…… riiiight…….

“If Kendrick Perkins is a Center, then Amare is a Center”

Huh?

Via http://www.draftexpress.com :

“Perkins has average height for an NBA center at 6-10, but more than makes up for that with a monster 7-4 wingspan and a chiseled 280 pound frame. All things considered, Perkins might be considered one of the best interior defenders in the NBA. He denies space in the post extremely well, has excellent footwork, and is very hard to back down because of his strength and tenacity. He also uses his length extremely well, often forcing his matchup to alter their shot awkwardly because of his reach. He’s an excellent shot-blocker as well, either coming from the weak-side or showing really nice timing with on-ball blocks, compensating for his average explosiveness”

Perkins is a Center, Amar’e is not.

disagree. in 05-06 he had Amare, Pat Burke and Diaw, same thing the next year and the next year they added Shaq.

What you just described he didn’t have in Phx. I believe what I described is what he would want.

And if you think he wants a pick and roll C, Amare can provide that.

We’ll agree to disagree on this one

All I’m saying is that in today’s NBA, Amare could start and give you minutes at center. And fits in D’antoni’s system.

I didn’t say anything more than that. Do I want Amare as the starting center for the Knicks next year? No.

“All I’m saying is that in today’s NBA, Amare could start and give you minutes at center. And fits in D’antoni’s system.

I didn’t say anything more than that.”

Oh, but yes you did sir.

“If Kendrick Perkins is a Center, then Amare is a Center”

And all I’m saying is that if Amar’e is your center you’re not getting far.

He was getting his milk money and his lunch taken by the Lakers until the Suns went to a zone to protect him when Lopez was out.

Amar’e and Diaw aren’t exactly “defensive oriented”, Stoudemire will block shots, but if he isn’t involved in the offense he won’t rebound or play defense for you. That’s not what I would call “defensive oriented”.

Diaw is not a center and _’antoni played him a lot in the backcourt and on the wing.

Pat Burke? Really?

“He was getting his milk money and his lunch taken by the Lakers until the Suns went to a zone to protect him when Lopez was out.”

Right, he was playing center. In today’s NBA you can play zone, and the zone protected him.

Realistically, who would you like to see the Knicks start at C next year, and come off the bench at C?

Comment by itzyung1
2010-06-04 23:16:30
Yeah but thats not what me and biggie were discussing.

Yes it is.

There is no “realistic” option for point guard or Center, but I’m still hoping for the best.

Who? Gallo?

You think he is a candidate for Center?
Is he gaining 40 poiunds this summer?

he plays “good” rookies.// so he says

Alright

so when he finds a seven foot 280 pound man who can run the floor and shoot three’s he’ll play him?

great.

Did any of you guys even LISTEN to Tonny’s piece?

He spends most of it with Andrew talking about how no one has an answer for the Lakers length. And how the Lakers interior size is taking away the dribble drive and forcing bad threes attempts..

So I asked.. if the Celtics with Perkins (chiseled 280) and Garnett up front how can this “coach’s” system succeed?

We’lls ee what players he gets but history shows this “coach” prefers to play small.

Robin Lopex would have splinters with out Gentry

lol.

Ill settle for 6’10 and 230-240 with enough pride to contest shots and give out hard fouls. Basically anyone with some size and a lot of heart and pride.

I still think an athletic center like Camby in his prime is a good fit. No need for a traditional center in this offense.

Although I kind of disagree about the size thing.

Its just that no one has an answer for Kobe and Gasol. Best overall player in the league and 2nd best big man in the league. Possibly one of the most skilled big men ever. In a perfect system for both him and Kobe.

But the size certainly helps.

or just listen to the video of Tommy and Andrew doesnt sound that way

Camby would NEVER have seen the court for D’Antoni

He could never shoot when he was in his prime.

No need for a traditional center in this offense.

until the playoffs start… thats the whole point.

I’m not thinking NBA title. I’m an extremely negative Mets and Knicks fan. I just want them to be good again and be playoff teams.

I don’t think you can win a title by playing this way. But he’s the coach, and we have to deal with this system for now..

When did D’antoni tell you this?

But if you get lucky and get Lebron and Bosh..and are smart/lucky in how you add to your roster you can get just as far as the Knick teams when Riley/JVG were coaching

Again, he hasn’t had players yet so we can’t really judge him until next year.

If Donnie is super patient (I wouldn’t be) and lets Eddy expire that is another $11M avail in 2011 if there is no lock out. Lebron, Bosh and another major signing could win. Too many variables right now

if he gets Lebron and Bosh he can literally sit in the hotel room and call in whatever input he has..

It wont take a rocket scientist to build a team around those two that would win 60 plus games

I mean for what coach is Lebron and Bosh not “his type of players”

Right. It’s not really about the coach, but he always gets killed on here.

He’s had a sh*t team, so they lost

When he gets a good team, they will win

People overrate the coach IMO

**overrate the coach’s importance to a team

Look at 08-09 coach of the year Mike Brown

Don Chaney won a coach of the year award too…

[...] Continue reading here: TheKnicksBlog.com – TKB.tv: NBA Finals [...]

YIKES OMG, here we go again with this busted and cyclic gument to defend this coach.

If we don’t have the players to win, then why is winning the optimal goal since we are gutting the team for year 2010?

At th very least, you have to admit that maybe D’Antoni is not on the same page as his GM or he is and his GM has a lame plan to begin with.

Why not play and devleop the young players who should be here for 2010 or be used a trade bait to better our team?

Dude, Wake up! The coach has a role to play and it is important.

You can say our team lost with D’Antoni becaus ehe didn’t have the players. I would agree with that to a large degree.

However, you have to admit, our young players didn’t develop or get the PT they should have. Our coached failed miserably in this area and this is whathe should be judged on for 2 years.

After all, youh ave given him a total pass on wins and losses.

Remember, Mike Brown got fired because the team didn’t deliver whenit counted.

If it wasn’t for the Head Coach the celtics would have jumped Rondo by now….as good as they are they wouldn’t get out of the first round due to clashing with one another…….imagine having to go to work everyday in a small office and having to deal with a guy like Kobe as your co-worker…….you would quit..or got fired for trying to punch Kobe in his face(chris childs haha) because you couldn’t deal with him anymore…Imagine personalities such as mj and rodman being together all the time but yet you need to bring these two totally different cast of character ,with two totally different egos together and have them work as One. Along with the rest of there teammates pacifically Pippen who can feel slighted because he knows he is just as responsible for the bulls titles as the next man but doesn’t recieve nearly the amount of credit he recieved …Our supervisors make more money then we do….Now imagine Coaches who are suppose to be some what of a authority figure (as 1 of the many hats they have to wear) having to do so while some of the players they are trying to coach can make up to 10x more then they do. On top of everybody telling them how great they are and there are times when they are not on and off the floor……nah coaches don’t get enough credit…..especially Doc…..Jackson is a fortunate genius….(cant believe I just typed that……but that’s how bad We need that)……..

Big- you’ve taken this argument to a different level.

Overall length, not just at center, is the crux of the discussion on the video. that’s pretty clear.

You need depth and interior presence up front, that I agree with. And in the past D’antoni hasn’t shown that he’s willing to follow the celts/lakers model.

can we wait to see what the roster looks like tho?

Phil Jackson can phone it in every single night of his career.

No Its Not. I asked How is Amare a small ball center?Not how good he plays it thats irrelevant, he did an ok job and they even got to the Conference finals with him playing Center, So he cant be that bad!

How about his attempt to play Wilson Chandler (he even identified him as a prototypical) Power Forward?

Shawn Marion?

“Phil Jackson can phone it in every single night of his career.”

The triangle offense doesn’t run “set” plays it’s mostly read and react. Kobe having a great basketball IQ also helps with that, he probably got that from all the excellent coaches he played under in the NBA coming in as a teenager… oh wait.

“I’m not thinking NBA title. I’m an extremely negative Mets and Knicks fan. I just want them to be good again and be playoff teams.

I don’t think you can win a title by playing this way. But he’s the coach, and we have to deal with this system for now..”

Efft that, man. It’s been 40 years, we need to think a lot bigger than “be(ing) good again” imho.

“Its just that no one has an answer for Kobe and Gasol. Best overall player in the league and 2nd best big man in the league. Possibly one of the most skilled big men ever. In a perfect system for both him and Kobe.”

Dude, Gasol is a legit 7′, have you seen him standing next to these other players? That’s part of the reason no one has an answer for him in these playoffs. It’s baically a twin tower lineup when they start him next to Bynum.

I think he’s the best big man in the NBA right now, he’s earned it this postseason.

again, any logical person, I would hope, would wait to see what the roster looks like.

the past is over. Move forward.

exactly…..

fortunate genius’…………..