BP: Lee vs Amar’e

tommy…do you know why mozgov’s and felton’s deals are not being made public….the knicks are saying that it is team policy to not disclose that info…but amares deal has been on espn for nearly 2 weeks

David Lee would have a 20 pt. 10 reb. game and go unnoticed, in a fifteen point Knick loss. He played meaningless games in a weak Eastern Conference. Stoudemire posted similiar numbers to Lee but against players like Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, and Dirk. He was the number one option on one of the best teams in the West. Ill take Amare.

Good question. I don’t know that other than to think max deals are more high profile.

Amare Stoudemire is clearly better than David Lee in terms of intangibles. He’s a winner, he’s an intimidating presence and he commands respect in the locker room. He’ll clearly help the Knicks on the basketball court, but I think he’ll have a greater impact in the locker room – especially for our young guys.

That’s why he’s worth a max contract in NY and David Lee isn’t in my opinion.

Besides the blatant obvious superior IMPACTFUL talent that STAT has over lee what separates the two is the leadership qualities that Amare has already shown to posses which separates the two even further…..even before he officially signed he was already making power moves trying to bring dudes to the Garden with him…….that vocal leadership quality and his willingness to take on this challenge(granted a lot of it is guaranteed money/years motivated) is something we haven’t had over a substantial amount of time since Ewing……..

SCHOENE ignores the real value of the Amare signing which is he will attract other pieces to the Knicks the way Pedro Martinez got others to come to the Mets. Even though Pedro never lived up to his contract, I would still do it 10 times out of 10. He turned around the free agent perception as Amare will do for the Knicks. My guess is it will be the best $100 million ever spent.

im all for the deal. i wanted to see lee and amare play togetehr but thats out the window. Amare is stronger, bigger more of an intimidating presence and i agree 100% with clyde. The western confrence is tuff and amare still did his thing over there i have no doubt that he will be a standout in this knicks team and the eastern conf.

max deals are also fairly obvious no?

First off welcome back Tommy! You don’t know something is good until ut’s gone. Next time you go on a break just close down the blog because it was wack when you was gone. Amare is easily better than Lee and clearly a better value at his contract than Lee at his. I really like Lee but I feel Amare is more of a difference maker who demands more respect. Players would come here to play with Amare over Lee and his 20pts per game and 50 loss per year average. Lee will be missed somewhat but most fans are more excited about Amare.

On behalf of the lee lovers and the new found admiration for our max guy STAT thanks again MR. THOMAS!!!!!!!!!!!…HAHAHA..

Amare is just more of a presence out there, opposing players are more intimidated by him, he’s long, he dunks hard, he’s very emotional on the court, other players see this, I also think Felton was a very good pickup, this guy is the type of PG we need here, gritty, durable type, I like him, he loves playing in the Garden also.

In still strongly feel Amare will have a career year with the knicks this season. He will be the starter for the East All-Star game at the 4 easily. Knick fans should be proud of this signing.

I see Felton being traded in Feb. trade deadline. He will have very good numbers though. I would only move him if Paul is available.

agreed…felton can go if we get paul or parker

RESPECT MR. THOMAS ATTRIBUTES(recent)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There might be some type of trade in late Sep prior to the start of the season. The guys we just picked up cant be moved until after certain dates and then again maybe nobody moves.

YO SON I keep hearing your boy Ill Will is on the choppin blocks, we’ll just have to wait and see.

DAMN TOMMY’S GOING IN ON HIS FIRST DAY BACK….HAHA..keep it up man..

Who do you envision STARTING in the front court with Amare??? Gallo and Turiaf or Gallo and Randolph??? I’m realllly curious to see which route Mike D’Antoni will go.

none of the new guys can be moved til dec. 15th i believe, so i don’t think we can expect any moves til the trade deadline…imo.

Yes, this. Another reason signing Amare > re-signing Lee is that keeping Lee means no Anthony Randolph.

Not only is Amare an upgrade over Lee for all the reasons you mentioned, I believe that if he stays healthy Randolph will very soon be seen as by far the best player to change teams in the GSW/NYK deal. And there is virtually nobody I would rather have mentoring Randolph than Amare Stoudemire. If Amare is serious about making the Knicks his team and being a leader he will see to it that AR15 is doing whatever he needs to do to realize his potential as a freakish Odom/Garnett/(young) Shawn Kemp hybrid.

LMAO @ (recent)

Based on what Phil Weber said when he was sitting in during that one summer league game the front court is going to have Randolph as a starter. – felton-x-gallo-amare/randolph as 4/5′s

I am sorry David Lee fans but I’m happy to see David Lee go and get so much back in return. I will remember Lee as an above average offensive player who was soft and very weak on defense. I believe that his rebounding numbers are due to his lack of playing defense. What I mean by that is when David Lee does not attempt to block a shot it leaves in good position to rebound. I am a 90s Knick fan so you know that defense is always more important to me.

Can you point me to a link or something where it says Amare considered us and came here in large part due to Isiah?

those recent attributes are the biggest since 99………

Tommy I think you are really down grading Lee’s talent inorder to justify why Amare is worth 100 million. The numbers just dont add up. This is really one of the most interesting sub plots for the Knicks its called the NASH EFFECT. Now Lee proved that he could be a 20 10 guy despite subpar point guard play so who is to say that with Nash Lee would not be a 25 and 12 guy. Amare has played with a Hall of Fame PG for his entire career he has not yet proven that he can be effective on a regular basis without one. Will having Raymond over Nash effect his productivity? I do not think this is an unfair question because it should effect his productivity. For me it is easier to see what you have in a player when they are not surrounded by all stars than if they are. There is no question the Amare is a way better Athlete but better player is not so clear given a bunch of legitimate factors. Such as Players around him, Playing out of position, Point guard play, Injuries and durability. Lee has just as good a mid range game as Amare. Will he get as many dunks no but as far as I know a layup is still worth the same as a dunk so I really don’t get that point in all this.

Amare > Lee, for that matter some may disagree with me BUT Amare > Bosh.

Ive never heard of Amare’s locker room presence BUT apparently some have?

@Shakes
IMHO I think, Amare should be at PF so I guess Turiaf, Jordan, Mozgov, or Eddy should be at the 5, Gallo at SF and Randolph coming off the bench. It really doesnt matter who starts but who is on the floor at crunch time BUT I think we should be strong at Center at the start of the game and if you want STAT at center make it during the end or whatever the matchup presents at that time.

Thats y I wanted Livingston, imagine him at 6’7, Randolph, Gallo, STAT, Jordan on the floor at the same time…….youth, length, speed, (well Gallo is kinda slow)and height

Hopefully x = Rudy Fernandez and WC is on his way to Portland…

I understand he helped us recruit, and I’m thankful for it and wouldn’t mind seeing him involved in a smaller role because he does havea good eye for talent, but assisting in the recruiting of Amare does not erase all the god awful things he did to this team.

Randolph and Amare are not great rebounders and below average one on one defenders. So it will have to be between Tariaf, the Russian center, or Jerome Jordan. I will have to go with Tariaf.

It might not show in the stats, but Turiaf, if he stays here, will also be a major influence in the locker room and in the media. He’s funny as hell and well respected.

He will surprise you and shortly become a fan favorite. He may be the hidden gem in this trade.

As for Amar’e making the knicks “somewhat better”… Somewhat? Is he kidding?

“Ive never heard of Amare’s locker room presence BUT apparently some have?”

I haven’t but Amare Stoudemire is a star and he commands respect. I mean Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler will not listen to Amare Stoudemire the same way they used to listen to David Lee!

By the way I don’t think Livingston’s a great fit… The line-up would be way too “long” and turnover-prone, we need small ball-handlers like Felton and Douglas..

Randolph averages 11-12 boards per 36 minutes. Not too shabby.

The roll of outcast and villain suits him well!

David Lee is not a spectacular power forward, I mean his contribution was average when he played with Earl Barron.

And Chris Duhon’s bread and butter was the pick-and-roll with David Lee. I’m not saying that Chris Duhon’s a better pick-and-roll partner than Steve Nash obviously but Duhon was constantly looking for Dave.

You have to take these factors into consideration as well.

Amare can create his own shot. David Lee only looks good when he is defended by slower Centers. He does not demand a double team. They play David one on one and live with it.

This conversation/debate over the two wouldn’t even take place if it wasn’t for Mr. Thomas….RESPECT HIS ATTRIBUTES!!!!!!!!

If he elevates the games of the young players around him, that will certainly be true. If not, he’ll just look foolish.

I’d bet on the former.

Barring a catastrophic injury, Amar’e should easily be an Eastern All-Star. And one the fans would actually vote for.

Yea…who ran the team for those 10 years of despair in between? It was Layden for the first part of the decade…who came after him? I forgot.

big ups to you for manning up….

p.s. all I’ve been saying all along….

Seriously. My new Lambo accelerates somewhat better than my old Ford Taurus.

LOL wow that was a terrible spin dude. Pedro? nearly over the hill Pedro on the Mets? While I see your point, I think its a bit overstated. Playing for the Mets still had some cache and I the “2005 Perdo effect” statement is always good for a laugh each time I hear it.

All it did (along with Omar) is make Latin players take an even closer look at the Mets. The Yankees not giving Beltran a deal had more to do with that signing than Perdro.

Met fans are very funny.

+1 Randolph is a stud rebounder.

Two years ago in my Fantasy Basketball League Finals, I scooped him up and he got busy on the boards for me BUSY!!! Locked up a championship for me. Fantasy Stats never lie!

…or Donnie Walsh, or everyone else in the Knicks front office for that matter.

Isiah probably would have traded Lee to the Hornets for Okafor and Posey.

You must be refering to Kurt.

The players that came via trade can be traded, I believe.

It’s the newly signed free agents that can’t be traded until Dec.

matter fact his attributes if we didn’t get Amare is 1 of the biggest in NY sports history….he actually saved a lot of peoples jobs starting from the top to the bottom(president/gm to head coach and his assistants)…the ramifications of us coming up empty would have been unfounded, unprecedented, unheralded, unparallel, unimaginable, unthinkable of a catastrophe…..just saying…..how ironic is that…….HAHAHAHA…(tried to tell yall for months what he could bring in this situation but I caught it from darn near every angle…..shout out to the open minded ones who understood where I was coming from with it)…revenge is like the sweetest joy next to getting puzzy(pac)….the last laugh is so sweet………..

Amare’s ability to get to the line, put more pressure on opposing teams interior defense and transition defense alone make him much more valuable than Lee. Better mid range shooter and 100x’s more explosive on the block, why are we even discussing this. Lee makes Amar’e look like a defensive force in the middle. Its a no brainer.

I know people like to attribute MOST of Amare’s success to Nash’s orchestrating, but Amar’e made Nash that much more effective with his great hands and ability to finish so frequently. Amar’e is without question worth 20 mil more than Lee.

You’re looking at the best PF in the Eastern conference hands down.

You can’t fully compare just numbers with Amare and Lee. I love Lee and will miss him. And I have said in the past that I am not completely sure how much better Amare is than Lee especially when you take price into account.

However, Amare brings a greater sense of legitimacy to the Knicks that they have desperately needed. I wanted Lee to go to a good team and succeed. but now I am happy that he is getting paid and I know he will put nice numbers out there.

Gallo and Chandler in the first half season. Randolph and the one of the 2 above that hasn’t been traded.

Randoph and Turiaf will get plenty of time, but Randolph might have a long adjustment period.

He is the future though.

So you really believe that Isiah was the sole contributor in bringing Amare here, and if he didn’t help out, Amare would have spurned us?

Oops! I’m not a baseball fan. Must have gotten sandwiched into the wrong dialogue.

i wonder with the blazers signing wesley matthews, could that chandler for Rudy Fernandez trade be re-visited? Now the blazers would have to put in another player for it to work cap wise.

Amare can either step out and do the pick and roll, or play back to the basket. Lee was really just a p & r guy. They got the same number of offensive boards last year, even though Amare played a lot with a great rebounder in Robin Lopez. Lee played with teammates who let him pull the ball out of their hands.

it’s all good Mal……like I said before that if that day comes…. which it will NOT….but if it does ….like I said before it will be the one mistake(one of the biggest) that walsh has made that will make a lot of clowns happy….for w/e reason……you guys been praying and praying on his down fall…. as if …..cant see why(oh yea I have an idea and it’s sad but yet laughable)….I refuse to indulge in such ignorance as others on Mr. Wilson’z and the lack of appreciation and continuous growth as a player and person….it’s kinda sad….most knowledgeable fans(haha)… some of you matter fact a lot of you are not……

ILL WILL IS GOING NO WHERE!!!!!

TOP 25 UNDER 25 DEAD or ALIVE!!!!!!!!

LONG LIVE ILL WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ll be PISSED if the Knicks trade Chandler for Fernandez.

Rudy is a scrub, Will isn’t.

lol

Esther Baxter looks somewhat better than Susan Boyle.

Amare is a much better player than David Lee because he has the “superstar factor” is a better shooter and defender, is quicker and a great P+R player. D lee had better numbers but…..

Matt Schaub had better numbers than Peyton Manning last season. But still, who were defenses more afraid to go against.

Ryan Zimmerman had better numbers than Arod. If you were a pitcher who would you gameplan more for anyway. Arod. He has the rep to back it up.

Danillo Gallinari had better numbers last season than Ray Allen. But who were teams more afraid to go up against? Allen because he is a star.

What up my knicka!!!

The one thing alot of people don’t realize is it’s not about amare > Lee it’s more amare + Randolph + azabuike + turiaf > Lee… Even looking back at the free agent class 3 out of the main 5 ended up on the same team, 1 stayed with their original squad for max so that only left 1 player (Amare) and 2 others that play the same position and does not have the cache as amare would have… It was smarter to sign amare than to resign Lee cuz with the signing of amare it haves us the flexibility to add more pieces by trading Lee instead of keeping lee and being stuck with relatively nothing else out there except for mike miller at the time and that would have been a public relations nightmare.

Nonsense & irrational hate for this man just wont stop! While Layden who “DESTROYED” the knicks just gets a passing mention or a slap on the wrist. Oh and let us not forget the stroke of genius on Magoo’s part to pass on every PG on the board for Jordan Hill! Who is better then Felton (who we over paid) right now! But yea your right lets keep up lynching a man who walked in to a lose/lose situation and gave it his best shot.

Jennings is better then Felton right now*

A couple of things:

1. The big if– is injury.

2. Amare> Lee at the figure of 100M vs. 80M, but it seems as though they could have locked Lee in for much less last year. Like say 8M. That extra 8.5M or so could’ve gone a long way towards other players, and potentially could cost a lot next summer-a 2nd true max maybe (?) .

3. But, ppl here are right that Amare is attracting other top players.

But is the money to get them already spent on Amare + role players like the Russian ???

Yeah, this really isn’t even an argument. Statistically speaking, Lee and Amare are close.

But those don’t take into account Amare’s leadership abilities, swagger/confidence, history of winning and knowing what it takes to win.

And from a basketball sense, Lee only got those stats playing against other centers, where he had a tendency to give up career high numbers to his matchup(to put it lightly). When he was a 4 at the end of the year, his numbers were fairly average really. Amare puts up those dominant numbers primarily at the 4. It’s a major difference.

Buy low, sell high. The Knicks did good.

But Rudy is a SG, Will isn’t.

Anyone notice YO SON and Tommy show up here on the same day. Whats up wit dat! Someone’s alter ego?
Ying to Yang?
Just sayin

Three things that give Amare a big edge. As good as Lee has gotten I don’t think teams will ever double him. Secondly Amare’s ability to wear opponents done phyically over the course of the game.

Third, Amare can do backboard breaking dunks that have the effect of pumping up a home crowd or deflating the opponent…

Lol. Yeah man.

Jennings has not proven to be any more effective than Felton at this point. He is younger, and yes probably will be better than Felton at some point, but you cannot possibly say he’s better than Felton with one season under his belt.

I’ve criticized Walsh for blowing that pick as well, and I’ve also condemned Layden for his early destruction. YO SON is jumping all over Isiah essentially claiming he’s the reason we got Amare. Want to know why I was talking about Isiah? Because the comment I was replying to was talking about Isiah.

Isiah sexually harassed a team employee, signed Jerome James to a ridiculous contract, trading unprotected picks for Curry, bringing in Marbury and Hardaway when we were already way over the cap. I’m not trying to minimize what Layden did either, but Isiah very much warrants the criticism he is so commonly a target of.

Also, we did not overpay Felton considering the market we’re in. To get a starting PG on a playoff team for 15.8 mill for only two years is an excellent deal considering what other players not of his caliber were getting.

……pipe down butterscotch.

How quickly people forget what lee looked like when he actually had a dominate big man playing next to him (zach randolph). His numbers were not at the level that they are now or even the year before. He is gonna have his hands full out west, but we all know what amare did out there. I take amare everytime and so does evrybody else if they’re smart.

That was meant as a joke but the more I think about it, it’s actually pretty apt.

You can get from point A to point B in either car. At the most basic level, they both get the job done. But when you roll down the street in your Lambo, people pay attention. They’re a little intimidated. And they want to get in that car. Sure it’s a more high maintenance, but it’s worth it.

Likewise, both Amare and David Lee are gonna get you somewhere in the neighborhood of 20/10 every night. But Amare intimidates, he draws double teams, he becomes the face of team that people want to pay attention to, and he’s a major selling point for other top team players to want to join the Knicks. How many times do you think teams have said “Oh sh*t, we have to go up against David Lee tonight”? How many players were like “What I really want is to go to NY to play with David Lee”?

I respect how hard David Lee worked to improve his game and I have nothing against him (except for the atrocious defense) and wish him well in Golden State… but anyone who thinks Amare is only somewhat of an improvement over David Lee needs to put down the pipe.

Many on this board vastly under-rate Wil’s potential and skills…as they iver-rate Gallo’s.

Once his ankle strengthened and he stopped taking those ill-advised 3-pointers, Wil became a pretty solid player at a position that is not ideally suited to him.

I think he will continue to improve.

Also, I agree with Mucha above

R the Knicks going to sign/trade for a veteran center like Shaq, Ratliff or Battie?

That’s garbage! Just more Lee bashing. Lee was an exceptional rebounder — his prowess legitimate.

Lee is a very good player; Amar’e a better one.

WELL THERE IS ONE THING I CAN PROMISE YOU ALL, IT WON’T BE JORDAN STARTING….LOL….if jerome jordan is our starting center come the beginning of the season…THE KNICKS WILL BE TROUBLE…lol.

We don’t know yet how much is guaranteed in Mozgov’s contract. Curry’s contract expires at the end of the season (if we can’t find a sucker before that), as does Azubuike’s, and we have plenty of cap space next year if the cap remains the same or increases.

Plenty of capspace for Amar’e to attract a max free agent, unless we get Melo or Paul in the interim. If that happens, cap space insignificant (we already will have our second max player, maybe third too)

to paraphrase the Clash –

IF IT’S JORDAN WE’LL BE IN TROUBLE,
IF IT’S EDDY IT WILL BE DOUBLE

There really is no comparison between Amare and Lee. Do you guys remember the Suns-Lakers conf. finals this year? We should see that series once again to really know the kind of dominating presence that Amare is. The famed Lakers front court was no match for Amare. All of them together – Gasol, Bynum, Odom, could do nothing against Amare. He was unstoppable. He had 42 against them in one game and dunked on all of them. I can’t imagine Lee doing that against that frontline.

Also on defense, while Amare is considered a below par weakside help defender, he can still block shots and power his way to grab some rebounds. When he wants, he can rebound with the best of them. Nobody was afraid to drive on Lee as there was no fear of shots being blocked. All in all, I don’t think there is even an argument to be made there.

I think we have to figure out a way to get Troy Murphy from the Pacers and we will be all set for this year. We shouldn’t waste any time on those other fantasy trades that are being purported. If they happen they happen. We don’t need to talk about them. Discussions are needed where there are multiple choices and we need to see which way to go. The choices here are clear cut – Melo and CP3. Let Donnie work in the background without much noise and if it happens well and good and we can take it from there.

You are joking right so because he ia a SG but not as good as Chandler you want him Im sooo happy you are not running this team. LOL are you for real

I agree with you 100%. I saw those games and he was a beast. Plus he has played in the west which is by far stacked with better PF i.e. Duncan, Dirk, Gasol

chill my dude.. LOL

Amare’ is Best PF in the East over Bosh as well!! Bosh is soft…
DLee is a solid off the bench player on a realy good team , he is not a Max player or even an all star player, and don’t give me any BS over he was last yr.

who ever whould take Dlee over Amare’ does not know Ball… period..

Tommy,

Man you didn’t have to post this Amare v Lee for these knuckleheads to be trippin over! Lee bashing playing out of his position night after night is SORRY! There are many players who play out of position can still be valuable based on the type of system and players they play along side of. This is a team sport. I know Lee chewed up many big men in the league, which makes this Amare v Lee nonsense. You guys ought to be grateful if we didn’t have Lee. Look how sorry we would have really look without him. Who did we have? NY was in a gutting mode and Lee was being used for this very reason to be traded for assets. So Lee wins hands down due to the trio from GS!

Thanks Lee!

it amazes me how many people keep trying to act like Amar’e and Lee are the same player.. and how this was a “lateral” move.. i just don’t understand it