Hornets Turning Away Calls for CP3?

They probably are going to put up a helluva presentation to keep him.

Tommy, you need a 12-step program to wean you off all of these so-called saviours. It seems like you just can’t get over striking out with LBJ and you’re trying to will a backup plan to save face. How about just focusing on who we have. I suggest you going cold-turkey. Next week CP3 will be a non-issue.

Okay I’m gonna ask this question very slowly because some of you bloggers are so geeked about getting CP3 that your minds have become “GEEKED-ABLY NUMB!” Because the Knicks signed Amare, Felton and Mozgov, have traded for AR, Turiaf and Azubike, and from this past draft acquired Fields, Jordan (project), and UFA Ryan Wittman (someone to be signed and sent to the NBDL for a year and brought up next year to replace Walker or Azubuike), the Knicks have acquire a roster for the first time in a long time (since the Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Starks and Harper years)) a roster that is not only promising (to contend) but “balanced!” A roster that can put a team on the floor that will be balanced offensively and defensively. That will be able to score and defend, and not only defend but have players who love to defend! Amare is an above average defender, Felton is an above average defender (better than he showed in the playoffs), IllWill is an above average defender (not withstanding the 60 Kobe hung on him, and the 50 Dwade and LBJ hung on him), Gallo is an above average defender (that he always wants to guard the other teams best players is impressive in itself- “just keep Durrant away from him”), and Turiaf, AR, and Azubuike are good to excellent defenders who “love to play defense!” Now to get CP3 the Knicks will have to trade there best defensive players: Turiaf, AR, Gallo, IllWill, Azubuike, TD and Curry (I AM NOT COUNTING CURRY AS ONE OF THE KNICKS BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYERS)! Yeah the Knicks would also get Okafor in the trade (who is also a good to excellent defensive player) but the Knicks will then be left more than likely with a starting five of CP3, Felton (who will be asked to guard 2′s), Landry Fields, Amare, and Okafor. The bench would be Rautins (a rookie and a horrible defensive player), Walker (a horrible defensive player), Mozgov (a rookie), Jordan ( a rookie) and three NBDL players to fill out the rest of the roster. This would be the team for the next 4 years (the length of Okafor’s contract) with there being a chance to get marginally better through a trade/signing a below max player (Corey Brewer, Sonny Weems) in 2011. Let me also include that if Amare get injured or go down at any time during the next 5-6 years the Knicks with no back-up for Amare instantly becomes a lottery team with no future lottery picks! Now for the next 5-6 years every team from the east is going to have to go through Miami to get to the finals. Presently Miami have Jordan (LBJ), and Jordan Light (Dwade) in their starting 5 along with a top 10 player Bosh (Ranked # 7) and Miller-a stud shooter. In the 90′s when the Knicks to no avail tried to get through Chicago and Jordan the reason they failed is because they could not overcome Jordan, period. They could not stop him and they could not contain him! The sages of the game know that defense and rebounds not only win games, but win them when they count-in the playoffs, and further is the only way a championship is won! The retorical question of how do you overcome superior force (superior offensive and defensive talent ie. the Miami Heat)? With a team who can eventually meld superior defensive ability to a superior will ie. the 2003-2004 champion Detroit Pistons. When I presently look at the Knicks roster I not only see that taking shape, I see young players that compliment each other and I see another key ingredient to win “DEPTH!” Now the question. After the trade, after the Knicks trade away their best defensive players (including the 2nd most athletic player in the NBA as well as defensive player in the NBA) for the next 5-6 years, or just answer for this upcoming season, “WHO IS GOING TO GUARD LBJ AND DWADE!”

AR being *the 2nd most atheletic player in the NBA as well as defensive player in the NBA!*

“WHO IS GOING TO GUARD LBJ AND DWADE!”

I think teams need to zone the Heat, rather than man to man D. You can’t guard Wade and LeBron, at least teams like the Knicks anyway. Throw a 2-3 at them and let them shoot away from the perimeter.

I just don’t see NO taking back a some package of Curry, Turiaf, Randolph, Gallo, Chandler, Azubuike, and Douglas. They already have a full roster and can’t play what we offer.

PG-Paul, Collison
SG-Thorton, Poindexter
SF-Peja, Wright, Posey
PF-West, Brackins, Songalia
C-Okafor, Grey

They would probably like a package with draft picks and fewer players, plus a center to replace Okafor and a backup PG. We don’t really have a true center or PG to offer.

“Who are the Hornets’ rivals?”

One of the other 29 teams?

Just a guess.

No shots.

Did I read Galo “an above avg defender” WOW! When did he become that???

We have a good team, with some defenive/offensive players for the 1st time in a long time.. Make no mistake this is not the Ewing Knicks,this is the D’Antoni Knicks.

We are going to win games by runnin-n-gunnin, shooting 3′s, and Felton has to be at the healm. If Coach can make him an all-star player which is possibel are team this yr will be succesful..

I still think we need a premire scorer and Melo is the GUY!!

Tommy is just reporting the news why would he have to save face? All Tommy does is report news that is Knicks relevant.
But I Think you are confused…YOU DONT HAVE TO BE HERE FEEL FREE TO LEAVE IF THATS HOW YOU FEEL.

the Hornets rivals are the Saints.. LOL

they don’t get any love in the city..

Remember a team takes itself out of position to be able to effectively rebound the majority of the missed shots. I think about what Duke did to Baylor’s big athletic front line whose coach insisted on playing zone against Duke which was the cause of their defeat! Good try but wrong answer!

C’mon Man the Hornets need to be retracted as an organization along w/ a few other teams…
Seriously there are to many teams, it kills the talent pool for other teams who can afford to support a winning organization..

If you don’t like his reporting, don’t visit his site.

I hear you man, but this “coach” isn’t going to “meld superior defensive ability to a superior will” nor is he going to see “DEPTH!” as a key ingredient to win.

Small Market teams that do well w/ arena sell outs every yr and actually make the NBA better

Spurs
Thunder
Kings
Blazers
Jazz
all the above are the only franchise in the there town, which makes it a little easier.. I think Clevland is going to be intresting to watch how they react…

was thinking the exact same thing. depth on a d’antoni team is not a good thing. he runs a 7-8 man rotation, which means good players will be left on the outside looking in.

#1, What did Ewing win? #2, Thats why I’d rather stand pat and wait to move Mello (one of my favorite players, and also who i am on record as saying is better than Durrant right now) to the 2 spot next year to match up against DWade!

No way the hornets trade cp3 away. Even if he is unhappy they will not trade him. Superstars get mad at their teams and want to get traded all the time. ( look at kobe a few yrs ago) the knicks should just stick with what they got. The team is not contenders but they are a good start

Don’t give me that “WHAT DID EWING WIN”, thats not fair.. Ewing made the team a contender every yr for 10yrs that was his job and he did that..

Don’t go there w/ Pat Ewing he rep’t the city and organization very well.. He did his part, not his fault the team didn’t get him another peice to beat the bulls..

I guess we can keep trying the same strategy that made us the 28th ranked defensive team last year. Thank the Lord for GSW and Toronto.

Once again I hate to burst the bubble for people who think CP3 going to be traded. The NO GM is not going to set the franchise further back by trading for guys who won’t give you anything close to equal value. At least he won’t do it until trading deadline in February, or he may just wait for the summer of 2011/new CBA in place. CP3 is locked up for two more years. Where the hell is he going? Stern should clamp down on guys who demand a trade. Say a million dollar fine will do it.

Has, I’m looking for the players to have the inner strength to collectively will a defensive superiority from leaders like “Turiaf”, “Amare”, “AR”, “Gallo”, “Azubuike”, “TD”, and “IllWill”!

That would suit me fine because i don’t want our crew going anywhere!

True D’Antoni isn’t a Defenive coach, but the league isn’t to defensive any more like how it use to be when we were kids… the rules make everything a foul, u can’t even breath on any guard anymore…

If we had the same players as last year that would make sense!

I was also fond of Ewing but my sights are set a little higher than where Ewing took the knicks, its to the “Promise(d) Land”

Totally right about Ewing.

I understand what you’re saying man I really do, but you don’t turn down the best player at his position in the NBA to hold onto a couple enigmas imho.

Sign Charles Garcia from the Summer League if you want to add another enigma, but you have to add a leader like Paul man. _’antoni needs a guy like Paul on the floor, he’s incapable of holding players accountable or getting them to play with maximum effort.

Amar’e is a good player, but he should be an All Defense player every year. He played very well defensively after the trade deadline last year and in stretches over his career, so he is capable. Under _’antoni he got progressively worse (in terms of effort) on the defensive end after coming into the league.

All of those guys you mentioned are players who take pride in giving effort on defense, but none is an All Defensive player. Chris Paul is, and he can be a defensive catalyst for a team.

I would say average with the potential to be be a good defender. In what was basically his rookie year I feel he exceeded expectations on that end (which let’s be honest were very low) and he more than held his own there. In fact to my eyes he was one of the few players who actively put an effort on that end and I didn’t see him get torched too much…

“True D’Antoni isn’t a Defenive coach, but the league isn’t to defensive any more like how it use to be when we were kids… the rules make everything a foul, u can’t even breath on any guard anymore…”

Watch the playoffs much?

See the Finals this year?

A 7-8 man rotation run and gun team will not last to even make it to the playoffs without slowing down or breaking down! In either case back-ups will be needed! Also if MD don’t expand his roster this year this may be his last year!

“#1, What did Ewing win? #2, Thats why I’d rather stand pat and wait to move Mello (one of my favorite players, and also who i am on record as saying is better than Durrant right now) to the 2 spot next year to match up against DWade!”

Carmelo cannot guard Wade. He is not a 2 guard for one, he’s not even a good defender (he can be I think, but he’s not) for his position SF.

CP3 is a defensive Wiz, no doubt and totally get why u want him to be the “new & improved Nash” for D’Antoni, but the Okafor contract will crush us..
We need a go-to guy down the strecth to win the game, like all the good teams have..
A big man can’t do it, never has never will..

if we do land CP3, I’ll be very happy even if it means we don’t get Melo, but I’d rather trade the farm to Denver for Melo.. Just my opionion

Again HaS the question still is “who will guard LBJ and DWade?”

Okay but can DWade guard Mello? NO!

Has,
good point w/ the playoffs/finals…

Defense was Boston’s advantage, and Lakers advantage was Offense.. KOBE/Gasol trumped Garnett/Peirce!!

i’m not saying not to play d, or have a stopper ala Artest but to get to the championship we need scoring and premire a scorer..

of course Wade can guard anyone.

Wade was second team all defense this year.. he has been FIRST TEAM ..

“Again HaS the question still is “who will guard LBJ and DWade?”

Again, Carmelo can’t guard either of them so what is your point? Please don’t tell me Gallinari is going to either of guard them. Randolph may be able to in a year or two, but you can find an athletic wing player to get in another player’s jersey and defend or at least give the effort.

“We need a go-to guy down the strecth to win the game, like all the good teams have..”

I get that, but CP3 is very capable of scoring and creating his own shot or creating one for his teammates. Remind me what go-to scorer would we be giving up in a trade to get Paul?

In 3 years the top 3 starting sf and pf combination in the NBA could be LBJ and Bosh, Durrant and Green, and Gallo and AR! Assuming Mello is on our team playing at the 2 spot!

Mello is to strong! Not many sfs can guard Mello!

“Defense was Boston’s advantage, and Lakers advantage was Offense.. KOBE/Gasol trumped Garnett/Peirce!!”

Do me a favor and go and check the scores of those 7 games in the Finals.

The Lakers are a great defensive team, Kobe & Artest plus combined 15 feet of wingspan of Bynum and Gasol was nearly impossible to score on. Derek Fisher was a physical and scrappy defender in the Finals especially, chasing Allen around screens like a madman.

I saw that you had written that “you would do anything to acquire CP3″, so answer the question: “If the Knicks were to trade for CP3 who would guard LBJ and DWade?”

thats just crazy

and Melo at the 2 spot..

come on.

if you remember Kobe vetoed a trade to the Bulls because he thought the Bulls were giving up too much and wouldnt have players to build around.

who in the league “guards” LBJ and Wade now?

not many because they are elite super stars..

the best way to guard them is to play zone defense and force the the shoot the outside shot..

now stop asking ridiculous questions.

What your failing to or choosing to not comprehend HaS is that “No team in a 7 game series is going to have offensive superiority over Miami” but the Knicks could have Defensive superiority over Miami plus have that go-to-scorer if they keep their players and acquire Mello! If the Knicks don’t even have defensive players any longer and you yourself believe that MD don’t coach defense then what are the Knicks chances of getting past Miami not onloy this coming season but in the next 3-4 years if the Knicks will be capped out?

Yeah I don’t see Melo and Gallo working on the same team. Melo is not a two at all, he’s a classic three man…only way it might work is if Gallo matures into a 4 but then that’s Amare’s spot…

Did you not see my answer to that ridiculous “zone” answer you gave. I can count on one finger how many championships college or the NBA that were won by a team whose strategy was to play A zone defense! Syracuse was the only team i remember in the over 40 years i have been watching, and that Syracuse championship was due to Syracuse have a superior offensive player in Mello and a superior defensive player in Warrick!

so answer your own question..

who guards Lebron and Wade..

of all the teams in the east.. let me know who guards them.

These Cats are ballers man, in the Olympics these Cats didn’t get on the floor and call out that they were a 1 or a 2 or a 3, they just choose a man to guard, just like i do when i go on the court

Im not in agreement with VOR because you have to Zone The Miami Heat But If Melo Can Guard Kobe He Can Guard Wade.

wouldn’t be to hard to put together one better then ours…..HAHA…..geeesh..

Yeah, the three Warriors from the 29th ranked defensive stalwarts will really stiffen our defense.

you playing full court press or YMCA man half court?

I don’t….I’m here to talk Knicks/NBA with you guys…

In a 7 game series against Miami i would start IllWill on LBJ and finish with AR on him. I would start with Gallo guarding Miami’s pg since their pg will be just a perimeter player playing along side LBJ and DWade. I would start Amare on Bosh and finish the game with Bosh being force to guard Gallo at the 4 (Amare i would move to the 5 at the end of the game so i could have AR in the game guarding LBJ), and i would end the game with either IllWill or Azubuike on DWade with Felton guarding Miami’s pg!

VOR,

Thanks for breaking it down. I’ve been saying this same old thing, but we have a lot of k ucklehead low IQ management wanna-be Knickcoachhaters believe that we need to go all out for CP3 or it’s a bust! Man you are wasting your time trying to convince theses guys who are suggesting dumbs** trade scenarios like DW is going to do as they requested. I’m done trying to explain logic with knuckleheads!

why ask that question it’s pointless theres nobody in the league that can guard those 2 there the best in the world…my proposal is having guys on the front line such as Okafur,STAT,Turiaf,Randolph,ILL WILL,Moskof,hopefully PEjr and have a point guard who can control the pace on both sides of the ball,such as CP3, with an addition of taking Posey cotract back….he was always a good defender maybe lost a step but I’m sure at least pretty good and veteran savy…..

This is not something we touch! To give up everything for one player is dumb! It ain’t happening!

No shots huh? Wat a dumbs** question!

Has, ur making good points w/ Defense and how much it plays a part on a winning team, but I still think the premire scorer is needed more than the A+ PG such as Paul, i don’t like the idea of taking on Okafor and not having the $$ to get Melo…

Chemistry is the Key, individual players can’t gaurd anyone, its team defense that wins…
SO really i guess the question is, how is the team defense better w/ Paul rather than Melo? Considering we have to give up Galo or AR or Both to get CP3… Team Defense and chemistry to me w/ the team currently constructed to win playoff series i still say Melo, I love Paul but we have Felton already in place..

they have to be real with themselves theres no equal value when having the best point guard in the World….maybe Darren Williams is the closest but there not swapping..if they don’t want to or cant afford to pay big money for superstars then there best bet is to go with young players who don’t cost much and coach them up……and at the end of the day if they are not willing to give him up then keep him and we will see him in 2 years maybe 1…..if not dueces to him too…

I thought it was chi unwillingness to give up deng that stopped thar trade…..

CP3 is no Kobe and not in any position to veto. Another one of your dumbA** comment that makes no sense knucklehead!

I like to run man. At 6-2 I’m a combination Magic, David Robinson, Mello!

“What your failing to or choosing to not comprehend HaS is that “No team in a 7 game series is going to have offensive superiority over Miami” but the Knicks could have Defensive superiority over Miami plus have that go-to-scorer if they keep their players and acquire Mello!”

LOL

And what you’re failing to comprehend is that “Mello” is not a defensive player, Paul is, he’s a hawk on the ball defender and sets the tone for a whole team in that regard.

I agree that the key will be defense in getting past the Heat in the next 5 years. Hopefully the “coach” will be gone in a season or two and we can put that plan in motion with a solid team. In the meantime, Paul, Okafur and Amar’e would be a solid start in the defensive department. I think Paul could be instrumental in getting Stoudemire to reach his full potential defensively. EO and Amar’e could average 4 blocks maybe more.

With a player like Paul if you add a couple shooters and some guys who can get out on the break to an All-Star Power forward and a solid defensive big man and you have a team who can actually have a legit shot at challenging for a title in 2 years. Straight up.

If after the trade we still have Chandler or Randolph or Gallinari (best case scenario) you sign a shooter, sign Pat Ewing Jr., and you have your starting lineup with Fields, Rautins, Mozgov and maybe Garcia/Landry or whoever off the bench. They’ll at least give teams like the Bulls a run for their money during the season, in a 7 game season we’d still be a couple seasons away though imho.

But NO would be saving money on Pauls contract as well as whoever else they let go (Posey) maybe, just maybe the Knicks don’t have to take on Okafur’s contract.

that would actually be Josh Smith…not unless your considering him the most athletic and second best defender or diffrence maker in the league…..

“SO really i guess the question is, how is the team defense better w/ Paul rather than Melo?”

Because Paul is a leader, Carmelo is not, Paul is an All-NBA defender, Carmelo is not, defense starts on the ball and sets the tone, having a ball hawk like Paul will set the tone for the whole team. You don’t go against the player getting you 10-12 easy points on precision passes/alley-oops every night. He has no problem getting in any players face if they’re dogging it out on the floor, he is a natural born leader and he has a killer instinct.

kobe wouldnt approve the trade if deng was involved.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=5880

I appreciate the “drop”! But don’t hate on these Cats man, HaS and Biggie just have strong opinions and much love for CP3 (someone who i also consider the best PG in the world). But CP3 is not worth imo AR, Gallo and Felton whose role would change drastically with CP3 here (that is until he is traded), and AR alone is not worth giving up when we’ll need his athletic 6-11 frame to match up against LBJ!

Son you still swinging with your eyes closed or did you just awaken? How can you talk about the Knicks still having “Turiaf”, “Randolph” and “IllWill” after having traded for CP3?

Killer Instict,

Thats exactly what Melo brings, i think Felton can lead the team on the Defensive end, and Melo would light it up on the Offesive end… Add Amar’e to the mix both ways,..

Again I Love what Paul can bring to the team, but the Okafor contract is the deal-breaker! We have a B+ Point Guard in Felton, who can become an All-Star player…

Has, you said it before the size we will be able to put on the court along with Versatilty we will be able to do damage.. CP3 is a ball hawk but anyone in the league can shoot right over him he’s like 6′ maybe,,

If Defense is your answer to us winning then I’m fine w/ Felton, and keeping AR.. CP3 needs help we can’t give up the farm for him w/ Okafor.. Again the Okafor contract = deal breaker…

CP3 is coming off major knee surgurgy as well, nobody is even talking about that… I know he’s 25 but he also has 5yrs in the league and 1 major injury already..

Okay, The best defensive player in the league is “LBJ”, followed by “AR”, “Artest”, “Howard” and “Josh Smith”! The most athletic is “LBJ”! IMO AR is in the top 5!

look down further…..

maybe it wasnt this post…my bad..hahah..I’m taking back all there bad contracts….YUP..

I mean depending on who you ask or listen to your going to get different stories…but good looking on the find…

I know your trying to be funny, but just in case you didn’t know “Azubuike missed 73 games last year,AR missed 49 games last year and Turiaf missed 40 games last year with the Warriors!

HaS, Until this CP3 circus pass, until the mello circus pass, and until we get into the season and play our first game against Miami (which i am looking forward to) me and you are going to have to agree to disagree. But with me knowing that you do have an astute basketball mind i do know we will continue in the future to find agreement on many more thing than we will not find agreement on!

Are you sure about that info about Wittman/D-League? Haven’t seen it anywhere.

Thats just me looking in my “crystal ball”! I just believe with Wittman being as good and promising a young player as the other Knicks rookies (and Walker) that with an invite to training camp he will further show his value and future worth! Its just that because of Walker’s guaranteed money and Rautin’s claim of being one of the Knicks 2nd round pick as well as the logjam at the 2/3 all of this correlates into Wittman starting the season in the NBDL! But before he leaves i imagine that him Rautins and Gallo will go at it to see who is the best gunner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8VkgIwMfCg