Amar’e’s Troubles with Pick and Roll

He’ll get murdered by fans here if he plays like that here.

Again, Amare just doesn’t try on defense at times. Nothing to do with anyone but himself. It’s all on him to put effort in every play on defense. There will unfortunately be plays and games like that here, unless Amare really takes to his leadership role and decides he wants to lead on BOTH ends of the floor.

Well hopefully he’ll work on it, I think he acknowledged about proving to be a better defender.

Unable to judge Amare’s pick n roll defense based on this vid. Regardless of Amare’s (lack of) defensive ability, defending the pick n roll is all about communicating and team agreements. You can either trap, hedge, switch, rotate to the rolling man.
This dunk can as well be Amare’s fault or any of the other players on defense (apart from Nash maybe), as long as we don’t know what the team defense should have looked like on this play.

Hell yeah he will, especially after the contract he signed and how bad we have been.

Maybe he got bored in Phoenix? Maybe playing in NY will help elevate his game to a new level? Maybe he really is just lazy on D?

I don’t know the answers to any of that and we will see this season but I do miss some good defense.

Amare might get lazy at times, I mean we all know he gets lazy at times, but a few isolated plays can’t prove he’s a bad PnR defender.

In fact I read an article before he signed with the Knicks comparing Amare to Bosh where statistically Amare defends the PnR better than Bosh, it’s isolated one on ones where Amare has more trouble.

For Biggie Who Said I didn’t have an article about Mozgov being a lottery talent.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/exec_mozgov_has_st_round_talent_pSEfalhG21kwXr6H3c7syN?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

What do you guys expect or starting lineup will be? Do you think Turiaf will be a starter. The guy has never started in his pro career consecutively…..

I’d expect Turiaf being a starter, but his playtime would still be limited to 20, max 25 minutes. If I’m correct Amare has already said he expects 10-15 min per game at the C spot. The rest of the minutes would go to Mozgov.
I don’t think AR will play C, he’ll play PF minutes behind Amare and probably some minutes at SF.

There’s a huge disparity between Amar’e Stoudemire’s level of play at home and on the road.

He literally ridiculed and slaughtered Pau Gasol in Phoenix (in the Western Conference Finals) but he was a non-factor in L.A.

i didnt say you didnt.. you said you didnt have anything to suport your claim.

but the fact stands he was still non drafted and that’s why he was a free agent — the original question.

Curious why Proko didnt go for this guy from his back yard.

lol. Him and Gallo will be best friends. We’ll be unbeatable at home, and terrible on the road.

so how could this lack of defensive basics be anything but bad coaching? or a lack of coaching of defensive fundamentals?

I think the starting lineup to begin the season will look something like this: Turiaf, Amare, Galinary, Chandler and Felton. But as the game goes on look for a lineup of Amare, Randolph, Galinary, Azubuike and felton to see a lot of minutes. Amare will be fine on defense, because now the focus will def be on him to be the leader of this team on both ends and he knows it. I look for the knicks to have a more focused attack then in previous years where there was just too much individuality.

or lack of effort maybe?

this is what drove me nuts about your boy, _avi_. Whenever opposing teams ran the pick & roll, Lee would without hesitation switch to the PG or SG, almost like he was thinking “YES. Let Duhon guard their center!”.

between 15 and 25 is not lottery

You are right. It is up to the coaches to teach how to beat the pick and roll, but it is the hardest play to defend and that why its lasted so long in this league. If you watch a lot of games like I do then that play is something you see about a million times each season and still very few teams can even contain it.

I hope you are right, although I have two small problems with the lineup you think will be evolving. One being the happiness of Amare, apparently he does not like to be moved to the C spot. Secondly, I would like to see Azu in good shape, because the guy can defend and his 3P% is ok. Let’s hope he will stay free of injuries. (If we were sure about that, there wouldnt be so much calls for the addition of a SG’to the roster …)

Exactly. The play in the vid is a very good example. The player that flashes to the high post and gets the ball draws his defender (the remaining two players are on the weak side), which means this defender has to choose between the high post and the rolling man. Nice play, maybe something coach should have a look at.
Like I said earlier, there are many ways to defend P&R, but the best defense against an effective P&R might be a zone …

+1 — it is on the Coach if a player guards the pick and roll like that. Players need to know in advance if they are expected to switch or hedge and get back to your man. In that case Amare should have hedged to slow down the PG and sprinted back to pick up his man. Anyone who played knows this, and it’s on the coach for not stressing it enough (when I played that was second nature — didn’t even have to think about it)

Yeah, I mean I do not expect amare to startany games really but I think that’s the lineup that will see the most time on the floor as the season goes on. Just like you. Though I hope everybody stays healthy, because if they do I think we can do a lot better than people are saying.

David Lee has defensive ANTI instincts.

This was meant for me right?
Well I was wrong I thought he didn’t even enter that draft two years ago but since he would of been 15-25 range Im assuming he has gotten a lot better.
I said I heard it in a video and I couldn’t bring it up but turns out tTommy got it from that article.

AMARE DUNKIN
RANDOLPH SLAMMIN
TURIAF JAMMIN
TURIAF BLOCKIN
RANDOLPH BLOCKIN
AMARE BLOCKIN
ROOSTER STUFFIN
GALLO BOMBIN
DOUGLAS BOMBIM
SPENCER BOMBIN
AZUBUIKE SLASHIN
CHANDLER SLASHIN
LANDRY CRASHIN
LANDRY SWISHING
LANDRY DISHING

LANDRY FEILDS MR FIX IT

the next DANTLEY

I meant to say I don’t expect amare to start at center.

Sounds like the 2010 Mets…lol

I’ve been youtubing memorable basketball games lately, such as Knicks-Pacers game 6 in 1999 (arguably the freshest team in NBA history)… Man I miss Roudball Rock and Bill Walton…

Anyways Amar’e Stoudemire destroyed Pau Gasol in Phoenix, he was a walkin Human rights violation. I kinda took him for granted, he’s truly a special player when he’s focused.

“Lee would without hesitation switch to the PG or SG”

lol. That was on a good day for him. On most days he would just stand there and watch as both the screener and the dribbler went unguarded and him and Duhon just stood there and watched.

Terrible. Im sure Don Nelson will love him.

ROBERSON BRICKING
JEFFRIES LAY-UP MISSING
CURRY BIG MACING
HARRINGTON HANGING
GALLINARI FREEZING
CHANDLER FASTBREAKING

I think him being described as a hustle player disgusted me even more than his play. Ridiculous.

DUHON “HEATCHECKING”
CHANDLER SIDEBACKBOARDING
HARRINGTON 1ONFIVE
GALLO DISAPPEARING
JEFFRIES AIRBALLING
LEE DEFENSING

lol. That is kind of fun. Very cathartic.

2 or 3 days later and still “FALSE!” lol.

true. Although Jeffries “intangibles” might have been even worse. Either/or. Im glad Ill never have to see either one of them in a Knick uniform again(hopefully, knock on wood)

JEFFRIES INTANGIBLING

“LEE DEFENSING”

Huh?

True, when he is focused he is unbelievable. This year I think he’ll come in focused and ready to play. Has anybody else noticed that the team as a whole seems to be very into this upcoming season? A few of them has even been working out together, I like what is happening so far.

I’ve never been a David Lee fan (obviously) but I will not forget the fact that he came back from his Grandfather’s funeral to play and hit the game-winning shot in Philly.

May he be succesful in GS.

lol. Meant to put quote-marks on that one.

lol. Classic. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that.

I don’t want to come across like I hate Lee as a person…He seems like a class act and always represented himself and the Knicks(off the court atleast) with dignity and class.

But on the court…EHHH. Still too bitter about that. Maybe someday I’ll forgive him.

Got another one :

JEFFRIES POTENTIAL GAME-WINNING 3-POINT SHOT TAKING

i like mosgov from the clips we have seen from him. he looks like he can help this team this season, as far as amare he is gonna do great here, he has already said he wants to be the leader of this team we need a guy to take the young guys under his wing and teach them. Lets Go Knicks

Seriously here’s what I want to see :

Gallinari driving
Gallinari posting up
Chandler using his athleticism to draw fouls
Randolph running like a deer
Randolph happy to play under Mike D’Antoni
Stoudemire dominating
Felton doing what he’s capable of doing
Turiaf healthy

Jeffries gamewinning 3 pt shot attempt surpasses funny and goes straight to tragic and sad lol.

agreed. I would basically say:

Gallo being aggressive
Chandler drawing fouls
Randolph getting blocks and steals and generally “running like a deer”
Stoudemire leading
Felton running like a cheetah I guess. Something smaller-Rabbit?
Turiaf being healthy enough to be his crazy passionate self

Looked like a great play run by the Lakers more than anything lol. They ran a super high pick n roll with Gasol at the 3 point line lol, dished it to Odom in the high post and fed Gasol on the flash n cut for an easy finish…very tough to recover by any PF. Sure in theory Amar’e got beat on the play, but Hill didn’t seal his lane as “last line of defense” and shoulda sent Gasol to the line. The finish was more his fault than Amare’s IMO. J-rich rotated as well as he could to Odom, and Hill went for the gamble on the pass…easy finish. Great pass by Kobe and Odom by the way.

The point of this clip was to showcase Amar’e I assume, but all it really did was show an example of poor team defensive rotations by the suns all around. Clearly tho, Amar’e needs to work on his communication with his new Knick teammates and put up better defensive efforts in the future. Point taken Tommy.

The more I look at that clip the more it seems like the Suns were just trying to make Kobe give up the ball. The Pick n Roll which they intended on running anyways, just screwed their rotations up lol. Phil’s great.

Refreshing to see some X&O’s stuff in here Tommy Boy.

I don’t understand how Amare is such a bad defender. Defense is just about hustle, if an idiot like Artest can defend it can’t be too hard for an smart and athletic guy like AS.

The only thing I can think of is that being coached by D’antoni made him feel like he didn’t need to work on his defense. He’s never been coached by a defensive guru like VG so he never learned to care enough. I really hope he can turn that around it’s going to be frustrating watching him this season.

On another tip, why is there so much D Lee hatred? He was a good player. He always gave his all, I never understood why he sucked on D but give the guy a break. Personally I’m gonna miss him. He was the only ray of light in this decade of darkness. A true knick IMO.

Bottom line.

Stoudemire could be All-NBA Defensive team every year if he wanted it and if he could stay focused for 82 games. He is an NBA “star” I think if he turned the corner on that end of the floor he would be an undeniable “superstar”.

I hope he makes that commitment this year as he is the team’s best player and by default you’d like him to be the leader/captain. If they can’t get Paul this will be imperative for him to embrace that leadership role and not just with lip service.

we only have one PG on this squad and we don’t even have a secondary playmaker. That’s an awful of responsibilities for Felton to shoulder with no help whatsoever. I don’t know that he can be expected to carry on for an entire season without breaking down.

It looks to me that we may be heading for a repeat of the 08-09 experiment when duhon surpassed all expectations for the first half of the season only to collapse in the second half.

We badly need an dependable (read experienced) PG to back up Felton. TD is clueless as a PG. he may try very hard but is clueless nonetheless.

I liked David Lee. He improved his offensive game tremendously over the years.

Hated his defense though. He cost us many games down the stretch with his pourous defense.

Amare got better defensively under Gentry in the finaly 3/4 of the season. Lets hope he doesn’t revert to his old ways under D’Antoni.

Just give up Itz.

“Curious why Proko didnt go for this guy from his back yard.”

NJ had bigger needs than a backup center behind Lopez for 10 min/game.

I’m not so sure about that, he’s been pretty solid as a starter his first 5 years in the league. I think you’re selling RF short.

Duhon was a joke he was never really a starter before he came to the Knicks. Chicago figured that out pretty quickly. I think Felton is actually going to have pretty damn good stats this year all the way through.

I get your concern about a backup though. I like TD but he’s a combo guard not a real PG. I’d like to see him become one but that may just be wishful thinking.

I really don’t understand it.

I really hope it’s not 3 years running without a backup. Absolutely maddening.

This is one play. Why not have a series of plays that shows his difficiencies? This could have very well been the fault of the guy who didnt switch.

Expected more from nbaplaybook.com

If duhon is a servicable backup. And TD outperformed duhon..

then arent we in a better posistion with toney douglas as our backup pg vs having duhon the starter?

Raymond Felton will be fine.

I read this on Truehoop:

“Stoudemire was accompanied on the trip by highly regarded NBA skills/footwork guru Idan Ravin, who has been working with the Knicks’ marquee signing all summer and has roots in Israel himself.”

Maybe he’ll work on defensive footwork while there to prevent himself from continually getting caught flat-footed in pick and roll situations.

Lol beat me to it.

Maybe now that he’s in touch with his jewish roots he’ll start playing defense.

motor.

How many teams have “great” PG backups. I’d like to give TD at least a little time before I give up on him as a backup.

I think Felton is going to be great and can play a bunch of minutes anyhow.

off topic a bit but just saw top 10 “most dissapointing” players in vegas SL … Rautins made list at # 3 … hope he shows better in training camp but looks like andy might be in Israel the fall instead of Amar’e ! see link …

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba-summer-league-most-disappointing

McGRADY HOBBLING
ROBINSON HEADCASING
HUGHES B!TCHING
ZEKE SEXUALLY HARASSING
MARBURY BLACKMAILING
JEROME JAMES EATING
CURRY EATING MORE-ING
HILL SITTING

Ditto. Amar’e needs to turn it up to 11.

The thing is he didn’t “outperform” Duhon as a point guard, although personally I would have rather watched Toney play all 82 games in a losing season.

Sadly the last several games he didn’t even see the floor without another point guard on the floor. He’s a good ball handler, but he’s more of an undersized 2.

The Knicks need another point guard.

it’s crazy how guys like OJ Mayo, JR Smith, and Roddy Beaubois struggled in SL. Would have expected them to dominate..Lack of focus maybe?

I think Toney’s fine as a backup pg, so long as he can play with another playmaker. Hopefully Gallo/Randolph/Chandler can do a decent job creating for others.

lol @ Curry eating more-ing.

I don’t know man I’m not convinced of that yet.

I think the Knicks could benefit by adding another point guard, even if it’s an older veteran type.

Time will tell though.

Exactly…

Theres a difference, Felton’s not a supreme bum like Duhon. He handles the ball and makes decisions with purpose. Duhon was out there running plays with zero confidence and had no ability to finish at the basket on pick n roll keeps. We do need another ball handler/playmaker tho for this roster to excel obv, but I wouldn’t put all of our hopes of being a winning team on just acquiring a back up PG.

I definitely agree, the team could use another veteran who would actually be a leader.

Sorry Tommy,

That wasn’t Amare’s fault! Amare was in the right position, but his team-mate didn’t switch and plus his team mate is playing too far off. There was enough room for his team mate to move above the pick before he got rub off! I don’t want to assume Amare wasn’t telling him to either swith or move his a** and get over the pick!

This is the type of stuff Artest was talking about. Artest be living in his man jock! Did sound nasty, but you get the point! I see guys in the NBA making their team mates look bad night after night, until they hold each other accountable!

Boy! I wish I could be courtside! They be trying to hire me!

@ Amarzel Tov

“Defense is just about hustle, if an idiot like Artest can defend it can’t be too hard for an smart and athletic guy like AS.”

LOL I swear Ron’s crazy act has everyone fooled. Just cause somebody is crazy, doesn’t mean they’re stupid. Ron’s a great defender because of how smart he is, along with being physically gifted in areas. He’s prob one of the most cerebral players in the league. Guy understands angles and passing lanes better than anybody in the league.

Amar’e has proven to have a higher IQ than people gave him credit for coming into the league. To me he’s just a defensive late bloomer. He’s made strides in that area each season and he knows people will have him under a bigger microscope in NY, so I expect more boards and more hustle on that end of the floor.

As far as Lee goes, I don’t see how you couldn’t notice that Lee was a bad defender? The PF spot is a position where lack of toughness can get noticed easily. That was really the only glaring hole in his game. The notion that he didn’t hustle as a Knick is ridiculous, he’s just a bad defender plain n simple.

That aside, the David Lee hate in here is an everyday thang man lol. When complaining about the more obvious things wrong with this team got old, for some people, there was nothing left to do but complain about your best player everyday.

Losing can do these things to a fanbase.

not until he wears a yarmulke….

Guys,guys, let’s give Duhon a fair shake. the first half of 08-09 he performed way beyond all expectations. I would say that he actually looked like an average nba PG. And then inexplicably he disappeared. Was it the NY night life, or the case of a guy over performing once in a lifetime…who knows. but for a few weeks he certainly made MD look like a genius.

better hope he doesn’t play like the last suns player we traded for

FALSE.
All I do Is repeat the information I hear until I form an opinion of my own. I haven’t seen Mosgov play so I can’t judge.
The article was wrong not me.