Category Archives: 2009 NBA Draft
Just wanted to take a second to ask you guys a quick question as I shake off a long evening at Mohegan Sun. You want the quick recap? Got down, went to the ATM, made a huge run, which would have been equivalent of a 20-2 spurt causing several time outs from the other team and then ultimately left breaking even.
Won’t be back there for a while, so had to get it out of my system.
Anyway, again with Drew manning the controls, Alvino getting the fan’s (along with Johnny Hoops and Trautwig) perspective, Myles playing hurt, Big Ben getting our take and your boy scouring the room for rumors.
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“…In hindsight, the Knicks had some huge regrets Friday. Two weeks ago, they were convinced Rubio would be off the board at No. 5, leading them to turn down a deal that would have sent Larry Hughes and Chandler to Washington for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Oleksiy Pecherov and the No. 5 pick (New York would not have surrendered the eighth pick in that trade), and Washington ended up getting Miller and Foye for the pick…”
If this were true that shows you how high they are on both Hill and Chandler and maybe not so high on Curry or Tyreke Evans. If they moved to 5 they could have secured Curry or Rubio and still landed Hill at 8.
Now, you’d have to figure, that Chandler is an absolute D’Antoni favorite.
I’m really not to sure if I buy this anyway. Why would Washington pull a deal two weeks before the draft? You’d have to think that they would have waited up until the draft, which is what ultimately ended up happening.
And of course, cheers to our old friend Donald Sterling for apparently nixing a deal that would have bagged him Darko and Greg Buckner for Z-Bo.
Also, kudos to Marc Berman for calling Jordan Hill, or at least getting us all looking in that direction…thanks to those of us visiting from overseas. You guys don’t need a passport to come to TKB, and it’s really neat to think that we stretch that far. Keep checking in for all sorts of Rubio information.
Highlights of new Knicks Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas
Jeff Goodman is a senior college basketball writer for FoxSports. Check out his blog at Good’N'Plenty.
Interview with Jeff Goodman, Foxsports.com
CA: How did you like the draft overall?
JG: It was okay. It didn’t blow me away. There were interesting picks with Minny and Curry to Golden State. I don’t know what Kahn was thinking taking Rubio and Flynn. Both are playmakers and they both need the ball in their hands to be effective. I don’t see them being a good match together in backcourt. They have to deal one right away.
CA: Some say it was a weak draft class. Do you agree? Or do you think this draft was simply filled with potential solid NBA players, and not necessarily all-star NBA players?
JG: Other than Griffin, there are a lot of good pieces. A lot of guys will play a long time in the NBA. It is a good draft, not a great draft.
CA: Biggest Trade of the Off-season thus far? Shaq to Cavs? Carter to Magic? Jefferson to Spurs?
JG: Big names. Big contracts. Shaq is probably the biggest acquisition for the near term. Cleveland is now in position where the addition of one more player can lead the franchise to a title. I do not know if any other trade will do that for their respective teams.
CA: If Cavs had Shaq last season, do they win the title?
JG: I do not know if anyone was going to beat the Lakers. The Lakers were the best team last year. If Garnett stayed healthy, the Celtics could have beaten them again, but he was hurt.
CA: What do you think of Knicks draftee, Jordan Hill?
JG: I saw Hill play more than most people. He is very raw and athletic, but he is mechanical. In an ordinary year, Hill goes in the 20′s. He is a hit-or-miss prospect. I do not know if he can handle NY. He is a deep south kid, and he might be eaten up in NY. As a defender, Hill is not very smart. He leaves his guys open on a block sometimes and allows for easy lay-ups. He is just okay as a defender. He’ll help as a shot-blocker
though. Hill is foul prone at times. He commits dumb reach-in fouls consistently. He doesn’t know how to use his body well. I see Hill as more of a good big man off the bench.
First of all, Goodman is a good dude. I met him last night at the draft, and he was nice enough to stop and chat with me for a second. He was a bit busy, but he gave me contact info and I was able to talk to him for a while today.
As a college basketball writer, Goodman obviously has an abundance of insight on the players selected last night. As he told me, he has seen a lot of Jordan Hill. Much to my dismay and probably to the dismay of every Knicks fan, Goodman is not as high on the big forward as the Knicks front office. He did not especially like the pick and he believes that the Knicks should have used the pick on point guard, even if that guard was a risky pick.
I would love to sit hear and disagree with what Goodman said. I would love to be able to respond by pointing out the qualities that make him a sure fire bet as a legit NBA big man. I would love to say, “Hey Jeff, you’re wrong.” The problem is that I cannot do any of those things. I have not seen Hill play enough to make a definitive judgment on him as a player. I have heard comparisons to Amare Stoudemire. NBADraft.net has compared him to Bosh. HoopsHype.com compares him to Chris Wilcox and Ronny Turiaf. Based on what I have seen, Hill is not any of those players. Because Amare blew up in D’Antoni’s system, some people expect Hill to fit into that mold. Here is the problem with that idea. Amare Stoudemire is Amare Stoudemire because of his explosive attitude and explosive athleticism. Hill is a good athlete, but he is not Amare. Not many people are on par Amare Stoudemire in that department. Chris Bosh is a silky smooth offensive player. Hill is not that. Wilcox and Turiaf are not as good as Hill offensively. I can almost see the Wilcox comparison. Like Hill, Wilcox does not use his size well on defense. He leaves you scratching your head at times because he is so athletic and he has so much potential to be a force on the defensive end. Also, Wilcox, for his length and athleticism, is a poor shot-blocker. Because of that, Hill is not quite on par with Wilcox if you ask me. But based on what Jeff said above, I can almost see the Wilcox comparison defensively.
At 8, Rubio, Evans, and Curry were all off the board. Terrence Williams, Brandon Jennings, and Jrue Holiday were all left. But would any of those guys have been a smarter pick than Hill? Williams is going to be a good player. No question. But will he be a star? The jury is still out on Jennings and Holiday being able to make it as premier point guards. One thing that cannot be taught is size. At least Hill has that. But as Jeff noted above, Hill can be a bit mechanical with his game. Guys like Amare and Bosh are fluid on the court. Athleticism means nothing when you are clumsy in the basketball sense. Hill will have to continue to become a more fluid player on the court.
My friend Danny Kilduff wrote to me, “I’ve never been to a draft where the crowd applauded a Knicks first round selection, so I’ll hold my critiquing for the summer league when I get to see this kid play a bit more.” I agree. As of right now, I like the pick, but he was not the guy that I wanted. He was more the guy that was left when the Knicks made the pick than he was the guy that I hoped would fall to us at 8. To a lesser extent, I believe Walsh and D’Antoni feel the same way. I will try and hold off any real judgment until at least the summer league, but more likely until about 1 or 2 months into next season. If he turns out to be a 16 ppg, 8rpg, and 1.5 bpg type of player, on top of doing the intagible things that help win games, then this pick will be a great pick. It is tough to find an elite PG, but finding a serviceable one is possible. Finding a legitimate starting PF / C that is very effective is much harder than finding a serviceable PG. Next off-season, players like Amare and Bosh will receive max contracts. If Hill can provide 70% of what those two players would give us, then I would be happy. But Hill still has to do all of that first. If the Knicks retain Lee, I am also unsure if Hill can play the center position. Perhaps Hill and Lee can combine to form a strong, but under-sized front court, but that remains to be seen.
Time will tell on this pick. Hill will have the opportunity to play almost immediately. His selection also tells me that Gallianri will likely see a lot of time at the SF position. If Hill cannot play center, then D’Antoni cannot play Gallo and Hill as power forwards at the same time. That all said, if Curry comes back healthy (and is not traded in the meantime), the Knicks suddenly have a big front court rotation with Hill, Curry, Darko, Gallo, and perhaps Lee, with Al Harrington and Wilson Chandler in the mix at the SF spot. The Knicks’ depleted front court hurt them last season, but next season figures to be a bit different…
… we hope.
**I will give my thoughts on the draft winners and losers at some point soon. Initial reaction to the Knicks… unsure. I am not sure Doulas was the best guy at that spot, even though Walsh loved him at the workout and others love the pick. I am just not sold that he is better pro prospect than a guy like Sam Young. If Doulas can play the point (and not like Nate Robinson or Eddie House playing the point), then this pick makes more sense to me. But if he is simply an under-sized SG that will be used in the Nate Robinson role, then I do not like the pick. I am starting to get tired of watching an under-sized Knick team. Young could have provided starter potential, length, offensive power, defense, and size at the shooting guard spot. So what he is 24 years old. What difference does that make? As for Hill, he was the best player there at 8. Barring a trade for Rubio or Curry, the Knicks did the best they could at that pick. I believe that Hill can ultimately play both the 4 and the 5, but time will tell on him. I feel bad that he got booed, but with Curry going just before to Golden State, I was not surprised. Oh well…….**
I was at the draft last night in the Garden, and I was able to catch up with a bunch of loyal TKB readers and die-hard Knicks fans. This is what they had to say:
Nathan Cohen: First off, let me say this. Nathan helped me get down into the front area of the draft for the latter half of the first round. Thanks again bud. I caught up with him while waiting to get into the theater, and Nathan said he wanted either Rubio or Curry, but that “I trust Donnie Walsh to make the best move.” Nathan, did he do that in your opinion?
Andrea: This guy and his friends were hysterical. They started “Chris Alvino…..Chris Alvino….. Chris Alvino…..” chants in section 305 that echoed thorughout the Garden (I hope). Thanks for that guys. Andrea had the following to say before the draft started: “If we don’t get Curry, we don’t want anybody.” Well, Walsh made a pick at 8 anyways.
Andrea also said that I need to get a new picture on TKB. He said that I look too old in my current picture. Andrea, I’ll look into that. Also, I want to make a special shout out to Staten Island for Andrea and his friends.
Sivon: Sivon wanted Evans, but ended up with Hill. He said that the “draft is a very happy time for Knicks fans.” With all the boos for Jordan Hill, were the Knicks fans happy? Sivon also said that, Walsh will build this team “step by step” and that he will “bring the Garden back to the 90′s” in terms of excitement. I hope so Sivon, I really, really do.
Once Stern congratulated the NBA champion LA Lakers, every Knick fan echoed, “Lakers Suck… Lakers Suck”. Good job everyone.
Alex Gonzalez: I waited on line with this guy for tickets all morning yesterday. He is from the Bronx, but he is a die-hard Wolves fan. It was like Christmas morning when the Kings took Evans, leaving Rubio to slip to 5. For Alex’s sake, I hope Rubio goes to Minny.
After the Knicks took Hill….
Sam Bobley: “This is the 2nd straight year they pick exactly who I didn’t want.” Ouch.
Brian Shea: “Another Channing Frye… and that sucks.” I certainly hope not. In all fairness, I think they are different players, aside from the fact that they both played at Arizona and they both play the same position and they both got picked by the Knicks at the same spot.
Brian Leigh, a Thunder fan: ”I am very excited about James Harden. The Next Manu Ginobli”
Tyler Pager: ”They needed Stephen Curry.”
Al Trautwig, Knicks announcer: When I asked him about the Hill pick, he responded, ”I don’t know. I didn’t see him play enough.”
Cliff: “It’s great, but Rubio or Curry would have been better. Minnesota screwed us.”
Sean O’Connor: “This is a seven person draft and once again the Knicks were stuck picking 8th. Although I am convinced they are getting Rubio”
Johnny Hoops, Knicks announcer and basketball legend: When asked about Hill, he said: “Hill is a major plus for the Knicks. He is a real forward with versatility. He can do it all”.
My friend Danny spotted Mr. Hoops from a distance and I tracked him down. Lucky for me, he was slowed down by others asking him to sign autographs. And he signed a lot of them, including one guy’s Jordan sneaker. Hoops is an extremely nice guy and he was willing to give the time of day to anyone that asked. Good for him (and for us too).
Catherine Alvino: “Chris, stop bothering me.” Oh wait, wrong quote. Cahterine is sad to see basketball end for a few months, but is ready for it in the fall.
Melissa Lombardi: Melissa is sad to see Ricky Rubio go to Minnesota. She says that he has “quick hands and pizazz”.
Danny Kilduff: Thought the Garden was ready to rock last night. He cannot wait for the Knicks to be competitive because he knows how passionate Knicks fans will be when it happens.
Greg Packer, “the draft guy“: First off, I have been to 4 or 5 drafts, and this guy has been at every single one of them. I have also seen him on TV during the NFL draft. He is the draft guy and he is pictured to the right next to me during the 2006 draft. He has the stache.
He said about Hill: “He is not Curry, not Rubio, but he was the best available.”
Tom Gaudio” On the Knicks’ draft, “Definitely dissapointing, but with people saying that he could be like Amare, that is intriguing. He better improve his jumper. Also, Toney Douglas, though undersized, brings versatility. The biggest key to the draft is that they took two versatile players that can play defense and that have an offensive game. Just I would like to see improvement in Hill’s jumper.”
I have known Sean, Tom, Danny, and Melissa for a long time, and they all have great basketball minds. Danny is also a die-hard St. John’s fan. Basketball has been pretty tough on him lately.
All in all, I had a great time at the draft last night. Last night was an example of how much New Yorkers want to love basketball and their Knicks again. When the ship gets righted, this city will be poppin’ again. Thanks again for all the contributors to this post. I am pretty sure that I got everyone, but if I missed you, then I apologize.
Join Tony Rice Balls as he talks about his reaction to the aftermath of last night’s draft on TKB Radio at 9 am.
Gmail IM: theknicksblog
Twitter: TommyDeeTKB
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Here’s my grade
Overall: B+
So the Knicks were ready when David Kahn threw a monkey wrench into the draft by taking both Rubio and Flynn leaving the Knicks War Room plenty pleased. They knew they were getting a good player and did in Hill. I had Hill third on my big board from the beginning and to think that the guy fell to 8 is a great situation for him and the Knicks. Now the team can look to move David Lee in a sign and trade.
Now, I’ve watched more ACC basketball than anyone in this area and I like Toney Douglas, but Danny Green is the type of rotation player who will be in the league for a long time. Sure, you love Douglas’ energy and defense, he was he defensive player of the year in the conferecnce.
I won’t nit pick, at the end of the day if the team wasn’t going to trade, you couldn’t ask for a better two picks. But, as we said, Rubio was the target all along but the asking price to move up to 5 or 6, in the end, was simply too high.
Interesting report filed byKen Berger a little while ago:
“…So a predictable scenario was playing out, one that eerily followed Rubio’s comments Wednesday about needing to be taken in a “top spot” to make the approximately $4 million buyout with his European team, JKV Joventut, palatable. Not inclined to view Minnesota — and the $5.7 million rookie-scale guarantee over the first two years — as a “top spot,” Rubio apparently would rather go home for a year or two than play for the T-Wolves.
“Now I know where I’m going to go, so I have to talk with the team, what exactly they want about me, and if necessary, I’m going to pay the buyout,” Rubio said.
That’s fine with David Kahn, Minnesota’s new GM, who had the stones to pick Rubio even though he knew it would be problematic. He knew it would be problematic because Rubio was represented by Dan Fegan, who tried to scare the bejesus out of the Milwaukee Bucks when they dared to select Yi Jianlian in 2007. That didn’t end well, depending on your perspective. Yi was dealt to the Nets in a package for Richard Jefferson, who was given away to San Antonio this week for expiring contracts.
But I digress. Back to Esteban, whose quotes only get better, according to the expert translation service I employed for much less than the $24 “Knicks draft caps” they were selling at the Garden. (No Frederic Weis jerseys, though.)
“It is probable that we will remain in Europe one or two years,” Rubio’s father said. “Everything is open, although the most probable is to continue in Europe for some time. We have to talk with the people in Minnesota … and we will see what will happen. Because at this hour, we could be in Minnesota or we could be somewhere else.”
That was the handiwork of Fegan, who was trying to broker a deal sending Rubio to the Knicks. No such luck. Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni was plenty happy with Jordan Hill at No. 8. Kahn, according to a rival executive, believed that Rubio was by far the best point guard in this draft. He likes Rubio so much, in fact, that he’s apparently willing to wait out his return to Europe rather than trade him.
“He might be right,” another rival exec said…”
My guy always told me that Rubio was target one and as much as I’d like to think that Walsh can work this out, I’m not all that confident. It’s why the Wolves took Flynn and it’s why they didn’t allow the Knicks 28 (and take UNC’s Wayne Ellington? How’s that for adding insult to injury?) That being the case, then why would the Wolves allow the Knicks Rubio?
Allowing Rubio to head back to Europe is straight idiotic. They gave up their backcourt to pick 2 point guards and then let one walk? Maybe they are waiting for the best offer. But you’d have to believe that if a deal were to get done, it would have been done by now. That said there can always be a third team involved, so all hope is not lost.
We are all hearing the rumors about Amare. In recent days, there have been deals, but if Amare is dealt, I would have to believe that he would be the highest profile player to be moved. Vescey had a rumor of McGrady,
Aaron Brooks, and Carl Landry going to the Suns for Barbosa and Amare. Yahoo has Amare to Golden State for Biedrins and 7. What does this all mean?
You have to ask yourselves, is now the time for Donnie to think bold…. VERY BOLD? Walsh has said that he would set his 2010 plan in motion if he was able to acquire a 2010 talent (whatever that means). Well, does Amare qualify?
In recent days, we have seen Richard Jefferson dealt for nothing more than cap relief and 3 over-the-hill subs, two of which the Bucks plan to buy out of their contracts. Last night, Shaq was dealt for a potentially retiring Ben Wallace and a fringe rotation guard. The Wizards dealt their pick along with bad contracts for two good players. The Warriors dealt Jamal Crawford for a shot Speedy and a bust in Acie. Get where I am going?
In case you don,’t, there is a clear trend that has come to rise in the NBA ever since last off-season, continuing through to the trading deadline. With the economy in the tubes, teams have looked for ways to rebuild by trading away pricey talent for expiring contracts, picks and young players. It makes complete sense. With a real changing of the guard occurring in Phoenix, it is not hard to imagine Amare being shown the door. Why lose him for nothing next off-season?
So, is now the time to go hard after the all-pro forward? Is now the time to start bringing the future to the present in a really, really big way?
For a team looking to cut major costs, what more would help than the valuable Cuttino Mobley contract? That is essentially like being able to move close to $10 million off your roster and not having to take back another contract in return. As for the other piece of the equation I mentioned above, Wilson Chandler is a budding star at the SF spot, a spot of need for Phoenix. I would hate to see him go for a player that will require a major contract to retain. But for Amare, I would have to really consider that. Throw in Al Harrington and the 29th pick on our side, and the 14th pick and a filler (Jared Dudley?) on theirs, and can we have a deal?
Mobley’s contract should have major value. Based on other rumored deals for Amare, perhaps Al and Wil might be too much. But you have to ask yourself, is it worth trying to get Amare while the price might be down? Tough question, but I say go for it. Walsh is a patient guy, but he is not afraid to be bold. Will he show that quality tonight?
Okay, my phones and emails are off the wall and haven’t stopped. Here’s what we’re 
hearing:
- Sounds like possible destinations for David Lee could be Portland or Memphis, yes Memphis. We told you Portland had interest around the deadline, then heard recently they are focusing on Turkoglu, but a source tells me that if the Knicks don’t get close to what his agent deems as max value, expect a sign and trade to either. Chicago could have been a possibility, but there are way too many moving parts. Chicago doesn’t want to give up what the Knicks would want, and remember Ben Gordon is unrestricted.
- The Knicks aren’t the only team in the area who have serious interest in Gerald Henderson. Kudos to Isola for digging to hear that Henderson is a possibility in NY, which I’ve heard two other people mention, and one who I really trust. You guys have heard Rubio and Jrue out of me…but you know I would have drafted Henderson in March.
- The Nets have high interest in the Duke product and right now they rank him and Terence Williams about even. You can throw Tyler Hansbrough into the discussion as well. They will take Demar DeRozan if he falls but not before Jordan Hill if he falls. They are not targeting Brandon Jennings (neither are the Knicks despite reports), DeJuan Blair or James Johnson.
- Speaking of Johnson, Golden State is all over him. Obviously, 7 is too early for the Wake product, but they are trying every means necessary to try and obtain another pick to get him. They think he’s a steal.
Also, Via Chris Broussard (12:45am)
“…The Cleveland Cavaliers and the Phoenix Suns have come to an agreement on a blockbuster trade that sends Shaquille O’Neal to Cleveland to team with LeBron James, according to sources.
The deal has been agreed to in principle and is expected to be finalized Thursday, according to sources.
Cleveland will send Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic to Phoenix for the future Hall of Famer.
The trade gives the Cavs a player they’ve coveted since February. With center Zydrunas Ilgauskas starting to break down, adding Shaq to the roster gives them a dominant force in the middle. The Cavs were obviously unhappy with their ability to defend Dwight Howard in the playoffs and bringing Shaq into the fold should help.
I’m also told that Chris Kaman and Tyson Chandler are being shopped and could have new homes tomorrow…”
Could we add another Chandler? Can’t wait for tomorrow…
With reports that darko may REALLY be coming to the Knicks this time, (and let’s face it, it’s for
Q then you make it happen) and the fact that the Clippers apparently will be shopping some bigs, the Knicks may be bolstering their front line.
We said it at the Draft Lottery that Marcus Camby could be the option, and when you consider what the Clip Show gave up to get him, it makes sense that Walsh can get him on the cheap.
We know he was the target last year during the Z-Bo talks but was told he was unavailable, but now that he could be on the market expect Donnie to pounce.
If they add Darko, which we’ll see, and Camby, where does that leave David Lee?
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